Bigbird: Paxil / paroxetine withdrawal

[Gridley]

1 minute ago, Guilietta said:

Gridley - did I see in a previous post that you are traveling to Spain?

 

G.

No, that's Rosetta.

[Giulietta]

Thank you. Maybe she will tell me how she plans/will cope with any waves. I would like to go on a group trip (I believe it's in October) - I've wanted to go for years but may not be able to with this. I also have anxiety about travel - so I am torn. I don't want to let this control me (completely). 😉

 

G.

[Bigbird]

Good morning Gridley, I’m not feelings so great, sleep is not good, feeling unwell most of the day. Possibly it’s from me getting my period today. I’m on an oral contraceptive so it’s not a normal cycle, it’s controlled by the oral contraceptive. I’ve been thinking about what I should do. Would it be helpful to increase my dosage or is it just better to wait out how I’m feeling. All I can manage is a short walk with my dogs daily and then I just only feel like sitting around reading. I feel really down and lethargic. What would you do ? My son who is 23 years old as of yesterday, lol, thinks I should just tough it out. I worry it won’t get better since it’s been 5 weeks now.  He stopped venlafaxine last year after a rapid taper and he said he that everyone feels badly during withdrawal. I guess I’m just feeling low and could use some support and guidance. I haven’t seen my family doctor recently because he’s 31 years old and told me to taper even more quickly, that was in February, so I’m sure he’s clueless about withdrawal and he will just most likely offer more medication. He knows that I was tapering off the paroxetine.  What would you suggest? I hope your doing well yourself, and thank you for your support.

[Gridley]

2 hours ago, Bigbird said:

I worry it won’t get better since it’s been 5 weeks now.

 

I'm sorry you're feeling bad.  Five weeks is not really a long time at all when you're talking about updosing.  It can take quite  a bit longer to stabilize--two more months, three?  I wish I could give you a timeline but we just don't know.  I would hold where you are.  We make bad decisions when we get scared and wanting to jump around in dose when you're feeling bad to seek relief is a very human reaction, but I would opt for stability and holding where you are.  You've had some good days and that means the updose is working.  It just takes time and patience.

 

You will have the option later to increase if needed, but I would keep that card in reserve now and hold.

 

It's been said many times here  on the site but bears repeating that doctors know nothing bout tapering, withdrawal or updosing.

[Bigbird]

Thanks Gridley, I know I just want relief, human nature. Your correct about doctors not knowing much, it’s pretty unbelievable when you think about how easily they are dispersed. Do you think me dissolving the half a tablet in 10 ml of water is ok. I’m looking into having it made by a compounding pharmacy. Have you ever experienced withdrawal like I’m having now? 

[Gridley]

21 minutes ago, Bigbird said:

Do you think me dissolving the half a tablet in 10 ml of water is ok. I’m looking into having it made by a compounding pharmacy. Have you ever experienced withdrawal like I’m having now? 

 

I've never done liquid so I'm not a good person to ask.  Please tell me a bit more about what you're doing and I'll ask the other mods for their help.  You're doing this to get 2.5mg Paxil, correct?  What mg pill are you dissolving in the 10ml water?  How many doses does that give you?

 

The compounding pharmacy would be convenient.  Keep in mind that when you make a change in the way you take the drug--homemade to compounded, generic to different generic, liquid to tablet, etc,. that constitute a dose event and should be done via a crossover, 1/4 old 3/4 new for 3-7 days, 1/2 old, 1/2 new for 3-7 days, 1/4 old, 3/4 new for 3-7 days, all new thereafter.  Sometimes changing the way you take the drug can cause symptoms to ramp up.  I just switched from a generic to name brand Ativan and I've had some difficulties, though they seem to have resolved now.

 

Regarding my experiences with withdrawal, before I discovered SA, I was tapering Imipramine (a tricyclic AD) around 10% every three weeks.  I wasn't measuring, just eyeballing it.  I was okay initially at the higher doses but when I got down to around 15mg, I started getting some significant and unpleasant withdrawal symptoms from tapering too fast.  I updosed to 25mg.  It took 4-5 months for me to stabilize but I finally did.

[Bigbird]

I think what I’m doing is ok, I read about it on this site, making your on solution. I am just taking 1/2 a 20 mg tablet and dissolving it in 10 ml of water. I just do that daily,  I don’t keep the rest of the liquid. Fresh daily. Brass monkey commented at the beginning of my introduction and he said it was fine. I guess I’m just worrying. The pharmacist would be making a liquid for me, so it would be the same. I think Alto mentioned for people changing from tablet to liquid they are usually fine in about 4 days. I’m just being a worry wart.

[Bigbird]

I use a 10 ml syringe and take 2 ml (2 mg) and then a 1ml syringe and take .5 ml ( .5 mg ) I used the information from this site.

[Bigbird]

Good morning Gridley, I hope that your well. My sleep has been terrible lately, very little and I sweat so much at night. I’m not sure if there is anything you can suggest. I could only walk my dogs around the block today. Just exhausted. I’m having a counselling appointment today over the telephone, just too much to get there. I’m so exhausted all I can do is sit around the house. Not sure if you have any suggestions, just keeping up with how I’m doing. Wishing you well.

[Gridley]

24 minutes ago, Bigbird said:

I could only walk my dogs around the block today.

 

I think it's very good that you could walk them a little.  You do what you can do.  I wouldn't kick myself because you can't do more.  You're in withdrawal.  For many of us (myself included), that means activities are often severely curtained.  Exhaustion and fatigue are common WD symptoms.  Acceptance is important here.  You will get better in time.

 

 

[Bigbird]

Thanks Gridley, I really appreciate the support, it’s kind of like a lifeline at the moment. Only others in this situation understand and that makes one feel  less isolated.  I’m thankful  for these boards and others like yourself who are always lending a helping hand. 

Thank you again.

[Carmie]

Hi Big Bird, 

 

Wishing you all the best with your updosing.  As Gridley said five weeks really isn’t a long time.  It can take a while to stabilise from any changes we make. I see you jumped from 4mg to 2mg in July too. That may still be affecting you as well. I find that every change I make effects me too, and you did a 50% drop there. There are times I’ve had to hold for three months or more to stabilise. 

 

Before I knew about crossovers I changed my formula once and went through three months of severe waves. I did stabilise eventually though. Our brains have a great capacity to heal. I find distractions are what keep me going when going through waves.

 

How lovely you have dogs, I’m sure they would have enjoyed their time with you outdoors. 

 

Take care, sending hugs🤗

[Bigbird]

Hey Carmie thanks for your support, I was following the antidepressant solution guide to taper off and I wasn’t aware and didn’t understand the occupancy curve article, I wasn’t aware how much of the medication was still high in such small amounts in the brain. So now I’m trying to get myself stabilized. I am currently making my own suspension with the tablet because no liquid paroxetine here in Canada. I still haven’t heard back from the pharmacy, they said they would make it. I am going to work on a daily yoga practice to help heal my nervous system  heal. I hope that your well and thank you so much for reaching out to me to lend your support, I appreciate it so much.  Hugs 🤗

[Bigbird]

Gridley, yesterday the pharmacy had my suspension made for 2.5 mg of paroxetine (5 ml = 2.5 mg ) The pharmacist said it was the same as I was making so I took it. I always take my medication at the same time pretty much all of the time 6 pm. So around 11 pm my heart started pounding, I tried breathing relaxing etc.  Before bed I had done the legs on the wall yoga move and belly breathing. Well I  couldn’t fall asleep at all. I’m so exhausted, I’ve never had this happen. I am planning on going back making my own suspension since it is the same every time. This has to be the worst that I have felt yet, like I want to sleep so badly but can’t.  I’m just going back to making my own solution. Have I messed myself up, I’m so confused. I should have just stayed doing what I was doing. Please any advice, I know you said I should have mixed the two, but it was too confusing on how to do that. Am I permanently messed up? Thanks.

[Giulietta]

Hi Bigbird,

Just swinging by so wish you continued support. I see you are also having a rough time of it. I did the following things which helped with me sleep - and maybe they may help you. I am now waking up once a night (thus far) and some not all nights I can get back to sleep fairly quickly.

 

1. Try getting a weighted blanket. These are generally based on your bed size, your weight, and if you sleep alone or with someone else (I exclude my dog!). Purchased from Amazon. I ordered one 5# heavier than is recommended. Prior to this I was piling on a 2 bathrobes - but still wasn't good enough. They can be a little warm but is a worthwhile compensation.

2.  Black out eye mask (if I have that right) - it is silk, has two elastic ribbons that go around the back of the head (you can adjust the tightness). This has been a huge help.

3. For 2 hours before bed - try wearing blue-light blocking glasses - whether watching TV or just in your living area.  They aren't stylish. They help.

 

Sorry about the dizziness. Me too - I just sit down - often for 3 hours at a stretch.

 

Hang in there.

[Bigbird]

Hi, thanks, I think that it is just the switch in how I’m taking the medication, since I’m in withdrawal, I must be sensitive. Thanks again for the tips, I have an eye mask, I get hot and sweat, but I should find another one. It’s a possibility for the weighted blanket, I’ll check amazon and I agree with no blue light. I’ll get this sorted out, thanks again. I hope Gridley responds to my post, he always makes me feel better. Thanks 

[Gridley]

2 hours ago, Bigbird said:

I am planning on going back making my own suspension since it is the same every time. This has to be the worst that I have felt yet, like I want to sleep so badly but can’t.  I’m just going back to making my own solution. Have I messed myself up, I’m so confused. I should have just stayed doing what I was doing. Please any advice, I know you said I should have mixed the two, but it was too confusing on how to do that. Am I permanently messed up? Thanks.

 

No, you haven't damaged yourself permanently in any way.  Whenever you change the formulation of your drug, it's called a dose change event and often causes a reaction.  This blip should straighten itself out in a few days and is nothing whatever to be worried about.  I just switched from generic Lorazepam (no longer available here) to brand name Ativan, didn't do a long enough crossover (ran out of old pills), and had a few days of ramped up symptoms.  I'm fine now.

 

 It's probably a good idea to go back to making the formulation yourself, since you've been doing well on it.

[Bigbird]

Thanks Gridley, I really appreciate your support. Have you ever experienced no sleep like that before? I will continue to make my own suspension, it’s easier. The one formulated from the pharmacist only lasts 14 days and that would be a pain to do a  long time taper with it. I have repeats for the tablets so that will be helpful. So have you ever had no sleep like I had last night. I must have had some sleep through out because I know sleep is a primary drive. Thank you so much.😊

[Gridley]

2 minutes ago, Bigbird said:

So have you ever had no sleep like I had last night.

 

Yes, I have.  Recently I had a bad night with only about three hours sleep and I can remember nights in WD with virtually no sleep.

 

[Bigbird]

I’m sorry  that you’ve had this, I'm

happy to know that you made it through just as I will, thanks Gridley, I’ll keep you posted. Wishing you health and happiness 😊

[Giulietta]

6 hours ago, Bigbird said:

I always take my medication at the same time pretty much all of the time 6 pm

 

Hi BigBird,

 

Do you find that taking your medication at night is too 'energing'? I took duloxetine in the morning for that reason.

 

Here is the blanket:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07S1T9M84/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

I bought this one first but exchanged it for the one above because I bought the wrong size - quality good - but didn't have the weight and dimensions I needed:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0787BVSTH/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

Here are the glasses:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06XT4KSWX/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

I learned in retrospect that I went off duloxetine CT (unwittingly) - long story - so I am in PAWS - protracted withdrawal syndrome.  Today has been a lousy day.

 

Yes - Gridley makes me feel better too.

 

Given the CT mishap (imagine an MD and pharmacy didn't indicate that crushing pellets destroyed them....) I don't know what this means for permanent damage or not.

 

Hope you sleep better tonight.

 

Yeesh.

 

Guilietta

[Bigbird]

Thanks Guilietta, my medication is more sedating. I’ll check out the links but I’m in Canada, so they may not be available in Canada. Thanks again.

[Giulietta]

 

13 minutes ago, Bigbird said:

I’ll check out the links but I’m in Canada

 

The price for the blanket was a bit steep for me - but I had to bite the bullet.

 

Paxil and Cymbalta are both short-half-life drugs (as you know well about Paxil!) which is a real bummer.

 

About how much longer do you think your taper will take you?

 

I had a level drawn on Tuesday for my duloxetine (generic for Cymbalta) level and haven't heard back yet. I have no idea how long it the lab results take or how/if useful they may be. I don't know about next steps and am trying to locate another MD.

 

After all this - I don't want to ask an MD about this or much of anything.

 

Are you comfortable with your MD?

 

[Bigbird]

He’s a new doctor. I need to stabilize first, then I’ll figure out a taper. Thanks for your suggestions 

[Carmie]

Hi Bigbird, 

 

Good idea to stick to the formulation that has been working for you. Just going on the new formulation for one day wouldn’t have messed you up too much. You should stabilise pretty quickly. 

 

I make up my own liquid formulation too, I’ve been doing it for years, it’s pretty easy.

 

Sending hugs🤗

[Bigbird]

Thanks Carmie, my sleep last night is back to what it was when I was making my own suspension. I’m not changing things again. The less changes the better, thanks for your support and encouragement. 😊

[Bigbird]

Hey Carmie, are you just dissolving yours in water? That’s what I have been doing all along, I just let myself get worried about how I was making it and thought a pharmacy would be better. It just made things more complicated, so I’m going to continue to do what I have done from the beginning.

[Carmie]

4 minutes ago, Bigbird said:

Hey Carmie, are you just dissolving yours in water? That’s what I have been doing all along, I just let myself get worried about how I was making it and thought a pharmacy would be better. It just made things more complicated, so I’m going to continue to do what I have done from the beginning.

 

Yes Bigbird, 

 

I just crush my tablet with a mortar and pestle and add water. I’ve never had a problem.💚

[Bigbird]

That’s great, I just use half of a 20 mg tablet (10 mg) and add it to 10 ml of water, It seems to dissolve well. I’m happy that I have someone experienced doing the same method. I appreciate your support, makes me feel a lot better.😊

[Carmie]

13 minutes ago, Bigbird said:

That’s great, I just use half of a 20 mg tablet (10 mg) and add it to 10 ml of water, It seems to dissolve well. I’m happy that I have someone experienced doing the same method. I appreciate your support, makes me feel a lot better.😊

 

My pleasure Bigbird, 

 

I crush a 25mg tablet and add 20ml of water to it. That makes each ml 1.25mg. I’ve been working with this ratio the whole time. Recently I’ve been going down by 0.25mg but as I get lower that will also get lower. I’m thinking of maybe in the near future adding another 5ml of water as that would make every ml 1mg. 

 

I’m on 6.25mg at the moment. You’re doing really well getting down to 2.5mg. 

 

Wishing you all the best with your continued tapering 💚

[Bigbird]

Thanks Carmie, but I should have done the 10 % method, I didn’t understand the occupancy curves article. It makes a lot of sense now that I see how much of the drug is still in the brain at low dosages.  That’s why I went into withdrawals as I lowered. I thought that I was being responsible by following the book written by the psychiatrist, The Antidepressant Solution. I guess it’s not slow enough, especially at the end of the tapers. I wish you health and happiness and continued success on your own taper.🤗

[Carmie]

We can only do what we know at the time Bigbird, 

 

I came down from 300mg to 6.25mg, but I knew nothing much about tapering in the past so I went down way too quickly at times too. I always waited until I stabilised though before I tapered again. I just tapered according to how I could cut the tablets to the next smallest drop possible. 

 

Somehow I managed to get myself down to 7.5mg before I found this site. Miracles still happen.😂 Went through severe withdrawals though. I still go through bad waves, but as long as I go slowly I don’t get the severe akathisia. It’s the scariest thing I’ve ever gone through in my life. 

 

Wishing you all the best with your taper too. You’ll finish it before me. Look forward to reading your success story.😁💚

Edited September 13, 2019 by Carmie
Typo

[Bigbird]

Your awesome Carmie, I love conversing with you, you are  so positive. That really helps me feel confident that I can get through this when you have gone through so much. I’m planning on taking my time, no rush. I want to stabilize and have a life and then slowly taper, who know when that will be, months from now. Your doing so great yourself and you have been so helpful to others on this site.🤗

[Giulietta]

Hello there,

 

How are you? 

 

I have been having a lot of brain zaps - miserable things - and was curious to learn more. The article cites Paxil discontination so thought you might be interested.

https://mentalhealthdaily.com/2014/11/29/brain-zaps-causes-treatments-for-electrical-shock-sensations/

 

Guilietta

[Bigbird]

Hi I’m doing well today thanks, sorry that your having those brain zaps. I use fish oil, maybe that will help. Take care and thanks for checking in.

[Bigbird]

Good morning Gridley, just letting you know how I’m doing. Still not doing well with the sleeping.  I’m exhausted and pretty much house bound. I feel so guilty not being able to be a normal productive person. Before bed I do the legs on the wall yoga and a guided meditation for sleep. I’m awakening multiple times during the night. I haven’t been using melatonin because I’m afraid to make things worse by taking it and I’m a little confused when to take it. On the main thread here, Alto said around dusk 8 pm, but other threads say something different. Also I’m feeling very low. I’m sorry I don’t want to be negative.  I need some hope. It feels like it’s taking so long  to stabilize . I’m still far away from this all being over,  at the moment I’m not living a normal life. I’m so afraid. I hope your well, I sometimes peak on your thread. Looks like your doing well. I appreciate so much your support, wishing  you health and healing.