Basten: coming off multiple drugs and rebound insomnia

[Basten]

At the moment I'm on Trazedone Amitryptiline Clonazepam Zopiclone. I sleep well but the drugs are giving me terrible anxiety and panic attacks that I have to take a Diazepam in the day. My psychiatrist has said to stay on them for two more weeks and if no better I can come off them all but I won't be able to sleep for days she said and I'm worried about that as I suffer a great deal of pain and will have to just lie there for hours until the pain subsides. I'm worried abiutvwithdrawals

[Altostrata]

Welcome, Basten.

 

What times of day do you take your drugs, and their dosages? When did you start each drug?

 

Please put ALL your drugs in the Drug Interactions Checker https://www.drugs.com/drug_interactions.php
and copy and paste the results or a link to them in this topic.

 

[Basten]

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Still happening and is this the drugs or what fed up

« on: May 26, 2021, 09:26:27 am »

 

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I posted before. I had to switch back to 0.5 clonaz due to sexual urges bad and othet stuff. But i dont get it cos last night i ate 2 cauli cheese burgers mushy peas a sweetcorn a pear apple and some coconut cream. Bed about 11 took meds reduced my zop a tiny bit. I then couldnt sleep and urges bad but try to ignore relax but my leg will start bashing up and down my body going everywhere my head rolking side to side like mad it went on for 3 hrs. Fell asleep only to wake with same things. I fell asleep. My brain wakes about 7 but i cant nove soo tired feel so weak. I have to get up feed cats and go back to bed till 1 i am continualky crying and depressed despire mirtaz. Befire bed after dinner i auddenly felt really anxious having to tell myself breath breath and oh no please dont let me have a panic attack. It passed.
I cant understand this. It all started when i switched to diaz and worse reducing. My acid got sooo bad. When i was on clona amitryp zop risperodone last march id be awake at 5 but up and out shopping etc.
There is something i think wrong with my digestion.
The other night i was hunfry and had 3 slices bread at 6.30. Same thing happened wide awake until 3. I guess its insulin or carbs turn to sugar. I am prediabetic but noone i know whose  prediabetic hss this. My eyes are dry and my bowels arent good . I go back to bed as i just cry. And on eating it gets soooo tight around me its so incomfortable. If i dont eeat the drugs send ne to sleep straight away. Im trying to taper z. I dont know what is going on. I dont think im digesting food well. Told gp but he just said wait for the tests. I can taste everything ive eaten hours later.
I swear these drugs have f...d up my digestive system.. it horrible when it happens as i am writhing around in bed 3 hours . I cant get up as wait to sleep.
I cant see any healing only worse. If i get like this after reducing c and mirtaz at night ill end up having a seizure

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[DataGuy]

Hi @Basten

 

Welcome to SA. Glad you found us. 

 

Sometimes withdrawal can result in problems with food, gastro upset etc. I think it might be a good idea to eat at least a few hours before going to bed, so you have time to digest. People can also develop problems with carbohydrates. You can try reducing the intake of these and see if this helps you sleep. Sometimes they can have an activating effect, as well as causing stomach problems, bloating, constipation. Very possible they can make your symptoms worse or cause strange, new symptoms.

 

Sounds like you are tapering. Generally we recommend reducing the dose about 10% per month until you are off. Note that it is 10% of your last dose, not the initial dosage. To understand why, please check out the link. You are of course welcome to taper faster, but tapering quickly can result in some pretty severe withdrawal symptoms that can last quite a long time (months to years). Tapering slowly helps minimize both symptoms and symptom severity, ensuring you can remain functional while you get off the drug. Reducing more quickly than 10% can be too fast for many people, and as you get to lower doses you may want to slow the reduction even further, since receptor occupancy of these drugs tends to decrease more rapidly at lower doses. 

 

 It would be very helpful if you could create a drug history in your signature like this one. This link will take you directly to the signature. Signatures generally look like this: 

 

Example:

2001–2002 paroxetine 
2003  citalopram 
2004  paroxetine
2008  paroxetine slow taper down to 2016 Aug off paroxetine
2016  citalopram May 20mg  Oct slow taper down
2018  citalopram 13 Feb 4.6mg 15 Mar 4.4mg 29 Apr 4.2mg

 

This will allow any moderator or member to quickly see your history and where you are in your taper, and thus be able to help more easily without too much reading (most people here are volunteers and have other jobs). 

Edited May 29, 2021 by DataGuy

[Basten]

Hello

 

Where dies it say what i said. Cant find. 

I just cutting zop in half then quarter off half and cant crush them. Every 2 weeks. 

 

I have no idea how to work percents at all. Not maths person hard cant grasp.

 

I will try taper clon o.5 after zop. Ive been told 3oo ml water draw off 1ml night discard drink rest. Next night 30o ml draw off 2ml discard and so on. Others have said but scakes.

 

Mirtaz i have now got liquid 1ml = 15mg same as my tabs. Gp says reduce by o.5 ml per week. 

[DataGuy]

Hi @Basten, here are some instructions on how to taper Z-drugs specifically, including Zopiclone. Reducing by a quarter every two weeks is likely going too quickly. Try to hold for awhile until you feel a bit better. It's best to only taper one drug at once. I would start with the mirtazapine, then the zopiclone, then the clonzapam. It is going to take quite awhile to get off those 3 drugs safely, so best do as much reading as you can on the topics. If you would like further help, please fill out your signature as instructed. 

[Shep]

@BastenPlease note I merged your recent post in with the Introduction post you started back in 2019. Please continue to use this thread so all of your information is in one place. 

 

As DataGuy mentioned, it will help us if you could fill out a signature. A simple list of start dates for your current drugs and any recent changes will be very helpful so we can give you advice. Please list the date, drug name, and the dose. Your signature is here:

 

Account - Settings - Create or Update Your Signature

[Basten]

On 7/29/2019 at 3:17 PM, Basten said:

 

 

[Basten]

How to taper zopiclone

 

I have no choice..i started cutting quarter off 7.5 pill two weeks ago. My whole insides are burning soooo bad. I alresdy have GERD. it happened too when i tried taper diaz so she switched ne back to 0.5 clon.

 

I feel awful a.m. bad night realky bad. I take ppis they not helping.

I am waiting 2 gi tests. I have got a long way to go and clon yet. If the burning gets so severe i will pass out. Feel weak. I do not understand how to work percentsges when people say taper 10% id no idea how to cut to that with any drug. 

It feel like my insides are rotting all inflamed eyes dry too. Sorry ive written again

Edited May 31, 2021 by Shep
added title (How to taper zopiclone) after moving this post from the tapering section

[Shep]

@basten Please note I moved your last post off the Tapering forum and placed it here in your Intro thread. Please continue posting here so all your information is in one place.

 

We recommend reducing by no more than 10% off your previous month's dose (not the original prescribed amount). So reducing 25% of a 7.5 mg pill was likely too much for your nervous system to handle. You would want to taper down to 6.75 mg, which would be a 10% reduction. Or since you have other health conditions, you may want to do a microtaper, which is 5% or less a month.  

 

You may want to updose since it's only been 2 weeks since your last reduction. 

 

Are you able to get the liquid formula of Zopiclone from your doctor? That would be the easiest way to taper this drug. I would talk to your doctor to see if it's possible to get the liquid version. 

 

 

[Basten]

No cant get liquid.

Wouldnt know how to get to 6.75. at all.dry cutting.

Understabd 25% is quarter of my 7.5 which i was doing. 2 weeks. Did this 10 days before when on diaz before hip op and hospital gave me 7.5 weeks so that messed that up and anaesthetic messes drugs up.

Now on clon and reduction seems different

It is no good i have no choice and sorry said it before i do not understand how to do percents onky 50 25. Thats it. Wouldnt know what a 10% reduction was or a 5% or how you get 6 aomething sorry and with any meds it will be same.  . Just do not never have understoid maths of any kind including percents. I will just have to put up with it. Thankyou. I dont even kniw where to find my post again to continue any input. I am not techo mindd have big troubke understanding. My heakth issue is hiatus hernia biile gastritis hernia pain 6 years. As for everything else im experiencing i have no idea what is happening inside me and have realky given up caring about anything 

[Basten]

Noted posted 2019.

Im stuck really 

[Shep]

Basten, as an online forum, it's unlikely we'll be able to help you. I would encourage you to reach out to family to help you talk to your doctor about getting a liquid to taper from or if they would help you work a scale. 

 

If your doctor is not supportive, you may want to see if there's another doctor who may be more helpful. 

 

Recommended doctors, therapists, and clinics

 

Here is a list in the UK: 

 

UNITED KINGDOM

• Robert Lefever, MA, MD, B Chir., South Kensington, London (addiction focus)
• Sami Timimi, MD, Lincolnshire
• Peter Haddad, MD, Greater Manchester
• Duncan Double, MD, Suffolk and Norwich
• David Healy, MD, North Wales
• Nagore Benito, MD, London

Please continue posting over on Benzo Buddies for social support. That can be very helpful in dealing with the isolation caused by withdrawal. 

Edited May 31, 2021 by Shep
removed link to dr who's no longer taking patients

[Basten]

Well one doesnt see adults one retired most private on list. Cant afford pensioner

My children are too busy and no idea about drugs. Just say stop them. My psych told me to just stop mirtaz 15 after 17 minths. My gp says take 7.5 alterbate 3 weeks theb 7.5 onky 2 weeks. People here say no. Who do you trust!! 

 

I am alone. and now a group who is supposed to be supportive say sorry cant...all because i cant get liquid....it was hard enough getting gp to give me liquid mirtaz yet to taper....and all because i have learning difficukties where maths are concerned.percebtages.

I wont bother here anymore thankyou. Have read peoples stories so will just have to do whatever . Im sorry to have posted for help. Maybe ill just take all my tablets so ill have no more issues . Goodbye

[Shep]

2 minutes ago, Basten said:

I wont bother here anymore thankyou. Have read peoples stories so will just have to do whatever . Im sorry to have posted for help. Maybe ill just take all my tablets so ill have no more issues . Goodbye

 

You're not bothering us at all, Baten. I'm trying to steer you in a way that gets you the support you need and deserve. From what you've told us, you aren't able to use a scale or measure liquid or get a prescription liquid, so you're having to make very high reductions in dose. For anyone in that position, having a very good social support network is the best you may be able to do for yourself. Benzo Buddies is much better at providing social support because it's an extremely large site dedicated to social support. We're a much smaller site dedicated to research and best-practice tapering advice. 

 

Please reach out to someone on the ground or via phone if you're feeling suicidal. Here are some resources: 

 

For those who are feeling desperate or suicidal

 

[Basten]

 

I dont have scales. You cant water taper zop. Even if i had scales i wouldnt kbow how weigh off 10 or 5%. I would have beeded someone to write it out. But my psych would not have given ne extra diaz to taper zop. She told me just stop mirtaz as i said. I have no suooort from docs or phych abd she discharged me cos i kept telking her maybe she was wrong abd had she read NICE guidelines Ashton etc. Bbuddies yes i read and read. Seems half my issues noone had much. Thanks anyway. No ive given up "reaching out" ive had out of hours help called desperate. They listen. Reported to my CPN who took days getting back and paych wouldnt contact me then in between apps despite feeling s.

Ive given up now. Mental health support and help has gone downhill in my time and they do not want to be bothered with us oldies 70 plus. We are scrapped .another friend long term supoort too my age scrapped. Uk mental health resources are very very bad. For those lucky ones they can pay hundreds private. I enquired 2....£300 plus initial consult!! 

Please try to bear in mind hiwever that many do not understand percents or how. Thanks anyway.

Your links to GPs is not goid sorry to say. Need updating and a lot then run into USA 

 

 

 

 

 

Well one doesnt see adults one retired most private on list. Cant afford pensioner

My children are too busy and no idea about drugs. Just say stop them. My psych told me to just stop mirtaz 15 after 17 minths. My gp says take 7.5 alterbate 3 weeks theb 7.5 onky 2 weeks. People here say no. Who do you trust!! 

 

I am alone. and now a group who is supposed to be supportive say sorry cant...all because i cant get liquid....it was hard enough getting gp to give me liquid mirtaz yet to taper....and all because i have learning difficukties where maths are concerned.percebtages.

I wont bother here anymore thankyou. Have read peoples stories so will just have to do whatever . Im sorry to have posted for help. Maybe ill just take all my tablets so ill have no more issues . Goodbye