Better: and soon I hope

[Better]

Hi Everyone, 

 

I've been reading the site for a few hours and am really grateful for so many of the contributors who share so much of their time, heart, and knowledge to help others come off medications they no longer want to be on. I am going to start tapering off this weekend of 75mg of Venlafaxine, which I found out through another Dr. I never should have been on to begin with. I have an estrogen problem that cannot be solved with SSRIs and became diagnosed with severe depression after the birth of my first and only child who is now 6. I went untreated for 2.5 years until I had a suicidal desire in Feb 2016, after that incident I got a diagnosis and went on 50mg of Sertraline and later up to 75mg. I took Trazadone to sleep at 25mg due to the insomnia caused by the Sertraline. One of my sisters and my mother also suffer from depression and my sister mentioned Wellbutrin worked really well for her so I asked my Dr. to switch since I felt like an emotionless robot. My insurance wouldn't cover the name brand so she prescribed Venlafaxine at 75mg and I have been at that does for 1 year and 3 months. I will post updates here about my progress and look forward to reading about others too. I'm not sure how to do the signature with the dosage part but will try... 

 

8/2019 - 75mg of Venlafaxine

 

  

[manymoretodays]

Hi Better and welcome aboard,

Did you discover the estrogen problem after starting on the SSRI's and other? 

And how are you doing overall now? 

Are you still feeling like an emotionless robot?

And I'm so sorry that you had to go through such hardship after your child was born.  Very tough stuff.

 

Venlafaxine is not quite the same as Wellbutrin or the name brand of Wellbutrin.  It's an SSNRI.  I'll give you more information about that in the next post.

 

And here is a bit more on the signature how to now, so you can add some more of the details from your initial post into it.

So you have been on some form of AD since 2016?

Any other medications, or hormones, or supplements?

 

Please put your withdrawal history into your signature

I pulled out some of ^ and just copied over here.  Hopefully that will help.

 

Your signature appears under all your posts.

 

If your drug history is very long, the last few years will do. FOR READABILITY, SHORT LINES ARE BEST.

 

• A list is easier to understand than one or multiple paragraphs
• Include ALL drugs, doses, and dates (starting and stopping)
• Any drugs prior to 24 months ago can just be listed with start and stop years
• Please use actual dates or approximate dates (e.g. mid-June) rather than relative time frames (e.g. 3 months ago)
• Spell out months (e.g. "January" or "Jan" as 9/1/2016 can be interpreted as 9 Jan 2016 or 1 Sept 2016)
• Please leave out symptoms and diagnoses

 

Example:

2001–2002 paroxetine 
2003  citalopram 
2004  paroxetine
2008  paroxetine slow taper down to 2016 Aug off paroxetine
2016  citalopram May 20mg  Oct slow taper down
2018  citalopram 13 Feb 4.6mg 15 Mar 4.4mg 29 Apr 4.2mg

How to add or edit your signature

1. Click on this link to open the correct page in User Settings:
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Edited August 1, 2019 by manymoretodays

[manymoretodays]

Hi again Better. 

 

I'm going to give you  more important information here:

 

Here at Surviving Antidepressants, we generally recommended that a person taper by no more than 10% of their current dose, with at least a four week hold in-between decreases.  The 10% taper recommendation is a harm reduction approach to going off psychiatric drugs.

*Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

Each 10% taper is based on the previous dosage.

*Tips for tapering off Effexor and Effexor XR (venlafaxine)

^ and more about your present medication
 

Some general information on WD(withdrawal)

What is withdrawal syndrome.

Brain Remodelling

The Windows and Waves pattern of Stabilization

 

Dr.Glenmullen’s withdrawal symptom list.

 

When we take medications, the CNS (central nervous system) responds by making changes over the months and years we take the drug(s). When the medication is discontinued, the CNS has to undo all the changes it made.  The CNS likes stability. Rebuilding the neurotransmitter production and reactivating the receptor and transporter cells takes time -- during that rebuilding process symptoms occur.

 

This is your introduction/journal page where you have now introduced yourself to the community, please ask any questions here, regarding your tapering,  or other,  give updates, and keep a record of your journey.   You can also communicate with the other members and moderators here as well.

 

Welcome aboard again.  And I love your user name, Better.  It's good you've joined and are wanting to plan a bit for your taper and getting off the venlafaxine.

 

Love, peace, healing, and growth,

manymoretodays(mmt)

 

 

 

 

Edited August 1, 2019 by manymoretodays

[Better]

Thank you manymoretodays (mmt) for your warm welcome and making extra sure I had read the tapering amount recommendations as well as helping me with the signature. To answer some of the other questions:

 

Did you discover the estrogen problem after starting on the SSRI's and other? Yes, I started to believe through reading various articles about 5 months ago this might be an estrogen problem and a doctor/ researcher/ professor/ women's clinic director confirmed it was estrogen last week. By asking me questions especially about how my body reacted when I first went on birth control over a decade ago. 

And how are you doing overall now? I am "fine", I function well but I want to have a larger range of emotions and the nostalgic happy feeling of good memories back and just be able to remember my good memories.

Are you still feeling like an emotionless robot? I have very very limited emotions and think my creativity is stifled as well and I don't have a good long term memory of the details of happy memories that I used to. My happy memories were a significant part of my life, I feel like I have lost a large part of my life because of that loss. 

 

You mentioned Venlafaxine is not quite the same as Wellbutrin, my doctor did tell me it wasn't the same but said it was the closest she could get that she thought insurance would cover and that it was in the same "family or group" as Wellbutrin.

 

Thank you again!! And I look forward to learning more in this process, hopefully to healing so I can help others as so many in this forum are doing, 

[manymoretodays]

Okay.  Thank you Better.  🤓

 

[Better]

I just learned some upsetting news this morning about my mother's cancer which is taking a turn for the worse. Should I not start trying to taper with the added stress this is going to cause? I had a large project and was busy at work and we were selling our home I wanted to finish those before I started to taper and now this has come up. I am wondering if there will never be a good time...

[Gridley]

2 minutes ago, Better said:

I just learned some upsetting news this morning

 

Sorry to hear this, Better.  While there are always going to be stressors in life, this is a major one and very new.   Likely this is not a good time to start a taper.

[manymoretodays]

Hi Better,

Yes, I agree......there may be a better time to get started with your taper.

And so sorry.  Hard stuff. ❤️

This might be a great time however, to prepare for tapering.

 

Love, peace, healing, and growth,

mmt

p.s.  I just moved your topic back here to your introduction. @Better  We like to keep each member to one introduction.  Just bookmark it, for future easy access.  And keep us updated.

Edited August 4, 2019 by manymoretodays
@

[Better]

Ok thank you. Hopefully, will be able to try again soon. 

[Better]

Tapering off 12 mg of Venlafaxine advice

 

Hi everyone, 

 

I'm now down to 12mg of Venlafaxine and I can take about a week and half off work, should I go ahead and just quit the last 12mg and deal with the side effects during my time off? And if I do, are there any supplements you recommend I take to help ease the sleepiness, dizziness, and edge? I really just want to be done. 

 

Thank you for any advice. 

 

Edited January 11, 2022 by ChessieCat
added Intro topic title before merging with intro topic

[ChessieCat]

Thank you for updating your drug signature.

 

39 minutes ago, Better said:

should I go ahead and just quit the last 12mg

 

NO!!!  Definitely not. 

 

That would be a cold turkey.

 

Cold Turkey and Too-Fast Tapers

 

It is better to go as low as possible, at least to 0.25mg and lower if you have the ability to make you dose even smaller.

 

When to end the taper and jump to zero?

 

Why risk the possibility of major withdrawal symptoms which might take years to resolve?

 

Getting off psychiatric drugs has nothing to do with how strong or determined we are as a person.  It is the brain that dictates how fast we can taper.   The idea of tapering is to keep withdrawal symptoms to a minimum so that we can live life as normally as possible.

 

If you follow the SA tapering protocol of no more than 10% of current dose followed by a hold of at least 4 weeks to allow the brain to adapt to not getting as much of the drug, it will take about 3 more years to get off.

 

Sorry to disappoint you but that is just the way it is if you want to get off the drug comfortably.  It took me 6 years to get off my Pristiq 100mg, but other than the first issues I had with withdrawal which is when I found SA, my withdrawal symptoms were minimal.  It took Brassmonkey 7 years to get of his Paxil, but he was able to continue working throughout his taper.  He did a taper that took 1.5 times longer than the 10% / 4 week, because he wanted to do it carefully.

[ChessieCat]

57 minutes ago, Better said:

are there any supplements you recommend I take to help ease the sleepiness, dizziness, and edge?

 

These sound like withdrawal symptoms, which indicates that you have been tapering too quickly.  If you have been reducing too quickly then I suggest that you do a nice long hold and give your brain the time to adapt.  See the links below.  If you continue tapering too quickly your withdrawal symptoms might become much worse.

 

Dr Joseph Glenmullen's WD Symptoms Checklist

 

It is better to slow down your tapering and not taper whilst you have withdrawal symptoms instead of adding in supplements which might not worse and could possibly make things worse.

 

Stability

 

WDnormal

 

Moderator brassmonkey has written more about WDnormal in his Success Story:

 

tao-of-the-brassmonkey

 

There are 2 supplements which SA recommends but they are not suggested to "solve" withdrawal but they might help ease things.  The above comment still applies.

 

If you do decide to try them, only try one at a time, start with a small dose to see how you react and do not make any other changes, like making a reduction, at the same time:

 

the-rule-of-3kis-keep-it-simple-keep-it-slow-keep-it-stable

[ChessieCat]

There are calculators linked in Post #1 of this topic:

 

how-to-calculate-dosages-and-dilutions-spreadsheets-and-calculators

 

[Better]

thank you, last time I did try cold turkey, a year ago, going off 17.5mg  I noticed these symptoms after two days, I am not having these symptoms now. I asked because in other forums people have gone off 17.5mg cold turkey using supplements to help keep the withdrawal effects at bay and were fine after a couple of weeks, so I wanted to know if anyone else had that experience here. Thanks again for your reply.

[ChessieCat]

I think that sometimes people can have delayed withdrawal symptoms and don't make the connection that it is related to stopping their drug too quickly.  That happened to me when I cold turkeyed citalopram.  I felt great for about 2 months and then became bedridden for 2.5 weeks and lost 8kgs because I couldn't eat.  It seemed like I had the flu but I wasn't.  I ended up being prescribed Pristiq; the withdrawal from citalopram was not picked up by the counsellor who then went on to tell me that just like a diabetic needs insulin I would need to take a antidepressant for life.  It wasn't until I arrived at SA after trying to reduce my Pristiq from 100mg to 50mg and suffered 2 weeks of very bad withdrawal symptoms that I learned that withdrawal symptoms can be delayed and it was then that I realised that is what had happened to me after cold turkeying the citalopram.

 

When I first reduced my Pristiq by 50% I had an slightly upset stomach for a few days and automatically assumed it was something that I had eaten or that I had a bug.  Little did I know at that time that it is also a withdrawal symptom.

 

Please note that what I have written to you in all of my posts is not to scare you but to give you the information so that you can make an informed decision.

 

What you decide to do is up to you.  But there are a large number of members here who cold turkeyed and found SA a long time afterwards and regret that they didn't find the site sooner so they could taper carefully.  I consider myself very fortunate that I did find SA the second time I experienced withdrawal symptoms and of course wish I had found it the first time. The second time I experienced 2 weeks of extreme cog fog.  It felt like I was trying to think with a brain full of mud.  I can remember that even walking took my full concentration.  At the end of the 2 weeks on the 50mg Pristiq I couldn't type.  Being a professional typist for a very long time I knew that something was very wrong.  I had joined SA a few days before I was unable to type and they had been suggesting that I updose.  But I didn't know what to do and was trying to learn about the drugs and withdrawal etc because it was all new to me and I didn't know if what I was being told was right and of course it was even harder with the brain fog.  When it got to the stage that I couldn't type I took more Pristiq.  After only about 4 HOURS, not days, the fog started lifting and I was able to type again.  I had a benchmark, it had nothing to do with placebo and the result of updosing was totally unexpected especially so quickly after taking the extra dose.

 

As I said there are many members of SA who have cold turkeyed their drug/s.  I've done the following searches:

 

This is the link to the search results for the term "cold turkey" in the Introduction forum:

 

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/search/?q="cold turkey"&quick=1&type=forums_topic&nodes=3

 

And this is the link to the search results for the term "cold turkey" in the Success Stories forum:

 

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/search/?q="cold turkey"&quick=1&type=forums_topic&nodes=28

[Better]

I really do appreciate it and the concern, certainly. I will continue to taper slowly. My problem was never depression Ive realized in the past year or so it was estrogen dominance after giving birth, my depression was a symptom of dangerously high estrogen levels, which is another reason why I wonder if some people can come off some drugs more easily because their underlying issue was misdiagnosed to begin with and if they have fixed the true problem physiologically if that makes a difference. I will check out these links and thank you again! And I didn't read your concern as trying to scare me- I really do appreciate honest answers so thank you again! 

[HealthHopeHappiness]

On 1/11/2022 at 11:08 PM, Better said:

I really do appreciate it and the concern, certainly. I will continue to taper slowly. My problem was never depression Ive realized in the past year or so it was estrogen dominance after giving birth, my depression was a symptom of dangerously high estrogen levels, which is another reason why I wonder if some people can come off some drugs more easily because their underlying issue was misdiagnosed to begin with and if they have fixed the true problem physiologically if that makes a difference. I will check out these links and thank you again! And I didn't read your concern as trying to scare me- I really do appreciate honest answers so thank you again! 

Hi @BetterI just wondered about your experience with estrogen dominance. I have just had blood results back which show estrogen levels above 1000 and undetectable progesterone. Did you get this treated and if so, what with? I hope you  got the issue sorted. 

[Better]

Hi @healthopehappiness

Yes, I started taking daily:

-DIM 200MG, the brand I use is SM Nutrition

-Grade A Chacon Maca from Peru, the brand I use is Sol Raiz

-Omega-3s 1280mg which is 2 capsules of Nordic Naturals brand

-Magnesium glycinate 120 mg, Pure encapsulations is the brand

 

and these all helped me very much

 

My functional medicine doctor also prescribed several others I have yet to start taking. Which hormone test did you take? Dutch Test? Just make sure whichever of these supplements you decide to take you take a high quality brand. 

 

 

23 hours ago, HealthHopeHappiness said:

Hi @BetterI just wondered about your experience with estrogen dominance. I have just had blood results back which show estrogen levels above 1000 and undetectable progesterone. Did you get this treated and if so, what with? I hope you  got the issue sorted.