lexapoison: 3 weeks off Lexapro / escitalopram

[lexapoison]

I really want to reinstate but I’m not sure if .1mg-.125mg is enough to do anything for someone? I’m scared this ya going to take a long time if I don’t even though I was only on it for 5 months 

[ChessieCat]

1 hour ago, lexapoison said:

It honestly feels like my brain isn’t working.

 

There is a big difference between saying that it feels like and saying that it literally is.

[composter]

I think you were told repeatedly by mods that your choices are up to you and it will take 4 days for a dosage change to show up in your system to see if you improve. Can't you just try it?

 

Read my intro thread. I was on 10 mg of my AD for 3 months, cut to 5 for 1 month and 2.5 mg for a week...Then ended up in severe withdrawal. Two weeks after that, I received life-saving advice to reinstate to 10 mg. Things dramatically improved over 8 weeks of reinstating. Then I held at 10 mg for 8 months to stabilize. I am now tapering even slower than the 10% taper recommended on here. These things take time.

[lexapoison]

I’m scared to be bouncing around. I would reinstate if I knew .1mg-.125 had the potential to stabilize me. But I haven’t seen any success stories of people reinstating at such a low dose I’ve been looking around 

[lexapoison]

I took .5mg of celexa and it was way too strong it felt. Had what I believe to be an immediate bad reaction and felt drugged the next day. .25mg I didn’t feel like that. From what I understand .125mg of lexapro is equal to .25mg of celexa. So that’s why I’d like to try .1mg-.125mg of Lexapro. My symptoms are horrendous.

[lexapoison]

I would really like to reinstate though. It’s been really really rough 

[Hamster]

7 hours ago, lexapoison said:

I’m scared to be bouncing around. I would reinstate if I knew .1mg-.125 had the potential to stabilize me. But I haven’t seen any success stories of people reinstating at such a low dose I’ve been looking around 

I haven't searched for stories like these. But maybe you will be the one to write it. And I know you are currently not in the mood to believe that.

 

Just my 2cents: There are countless stories where SAD members react to a minor drop in AD doseage (even below 0.1 mg of whatever AD!). 

I definitely felt my last reduction of some 0.2 mg/day of mirt, my mood went down for 2 weeks. These are powerful drugs, we all know that.

So the other way round: There is no reason to believe that .1 mg lexapro cannot have an effect. Whether good or bad you  and only you may find out.

And only you can decide - based on all the input which came in already - if it's worth a try. 

 

Good luck!

 

Hamster

[lexapoison]

I really really want to am just really scared. Does anyone know if reinstatement can help withdrawal akathisia?? I know reinstatement helped my dp almost immediately.

[ShiningLight]

Listen, Lexapoison. No one can tell the future. You kind of have to decide what you are going to do and commit to it. Then evaluate the response and either stay the course, or change. 

 

I don't think feedback or reassurance from others is what you need the most, because you don't seem to be able to take it in. You keep asking for it even after getting it. I think that one of the things that would really help your anxiety is getting some real-world experience with success managing this. Success happens when you learn what worsens or improves your symptoms. But in order to get there, you have to make a decision to try something and stick to it long enough to get some kind of feedback from your body. This takes time.

 

When I decided to reinstate gabapentin after the fast taper, I decided to reinstate to 450 mg. My MD said reinstate to 900 mg, but I wasn’t willing [I don’t necessarily recommend this; it’s just where I was and I had lost trust in her—for good reason].  I held at 450, for dear life. I decided that I would hold until something changed, until I had more information. Then I would re-evaluate. I tracked my symptoms. And very slowly, I started to get better. That’s the rough version, from my memory. It was more complicated than that. It’s the holding and tracking patterns that gives you the information. You have to be a bit of a scientist and a detective.   

 

The other thing I did a lot was listen to meditation videos on youtube. That was hugely helpful to me. Have you tried anything like that? You have to get in there and try to manage your anxiety, even though it feels like it’s unmanageable. You do it anyway, even though you feel like it won’t work.

 

If you have akathisia and you have to pace, then pace with compassion towards yourself. That’s what I tried to do. ‘Oh, here’s the pacing again. I guess I’m going to pace for a bit. Now when does this usually happen? Oh, it’s usually about an hour before my dose is due. Yep, here it is again.’ This is the skill of mindfulness. And yeah, I was also miserable. But those times when I could soften towards the symptom instead of fighting against it, made it more bearable. And that was something. I still had the misery, but at least I wasn’t actively compounding it. I was just going through it.     

 

Seems like you're in a bit of freeze. As in flight, fight, or freeze. Freeze is when you feel paralyzed and have trouble making decisions. I've been there numerous times and it is not fun. I feel for you. No one can do this for you; you have to do it for yourself. It takes some courage and tenacity.

 

 

Edited September 10, 2019 by ChessieCat
changed font added space

[lexapoison]

Did reinstating help your akathisia?

[ShiningLight]

10 hours ago, ShiningLight said:

 

I don't think feedback or reassurance from others is what you need the most, because you don't seem to be able to take it in. You keep asking for it even after getting it. I think that one of the things that would really help your anxiety is getting some real-world experience with success managing this.

 

The other thing I did a lot was listen to meditation videos on youtube. That was hugely helpful to me. Have you tried anything like that? 

 

 

 

[Altostrata]

We've asked for daily drug and symptom notes 4 times. If you're posting this in the benzo forum, that's the right way to go. We need those notes before we can figure out what's going on.

[lexapoison]

Altostrata thank you for taking the time. Just a post from you means the world. I posted notes on the benzo forum starting yesterday. I’m currently taking no drugs or supplements except .5mg of Ativan every few days but I believe I’m going to transition into taking it everyday now.

[lexapoison]

I can’t believe I’ve gotten this bad. It actually hit me today that I can’t believe it’s gotten this bad. It’s inhumane. How can 5 weeks on a pill do this? I was normal, better than normal. I was amazing. I was the best person in the world in my eyes, I never envied a soul. Prom king, homecoming king, center of attention, life of the party, caring, loving, educated, accomplished, successful at everything I ever tried. Now I can’t even go to the bathroom to urinate on my own without intense fear. God help us all.

 

Edited September 12, 2019 by ChessieCat
reduced font

[lexapoison]

Is my math right? 5mg Lexapro tablet in 25ml of water take .5ml of solution to get .1mg of Lexapro? Brain just doesn’t want to work that well right now 

[Altostrata]

Lexapro comes in a prescription liquid, as does Celexa, you want to make your own?

 

8 minutes ago, lexapoison said:

Is my math right? 5mg Lexapro tablet in 25ml of water take .5ml of solution to get .1mg of Lexapro? Brain just doesn’t want to work that well right now 

 

That formula gives you 1mg Lexapro in 5mL. You'd have 0.20mg in 1mL or 0.10mg in 0.5mL.

[lexapoison]

1 minute ago, Altostrata said:

Lexapro comes in a prescription liquid, as does Celexa, you want to make your own?

 

 

That formula gives you 1mg Lexapro in 5mL. You'd have 0.20mg in 1mL or 0.10mg in 0.5mL.

 My psych won’t give me liquid Lexapro or celexa neither tablet form of celexa. Altostrata I’m struggling between reinstating either .1mg or .125mg of Lexapro. I have everything ready to go and am going to reinstate now  

[Altostrata]

Well, it's up to you if you want to try it. Please let us know how you're doing.

 

Why does your psychiatrist refuse to prescribe the liquid?

[lexapoison]

He says the pharmacy will look at me like I’m crazy. And said no.  

 

Question: it seems my sensitivity to lights and sounds is toning down a bit. Also the burning throughout my body and in my face seems to be better almost gone as well. Is this a sign my nervous system is toning down a bit? Mental symptoms are as worse as ever.

[lexapoison]

Or is this a windows and waves type thing and they’ll most likely be back?

[ShiningLight]

7 hours ago, lexapoison said:

Altostrata I’m struggling between reinstating either .1mg or .125mg of Lexapro. I have everything ready to go and am going to reinstate now  

 

Good for you!  I posted a long reply on your benzo thread but was not aware of this at the time.

[Altostrata]

That's a stupid answer. You can ditch this psychiatrist from your payroll.

 

Any doctor can prescribe the liquid, it doesn't have to be a psychiatrist. You'll have to check with your health insurance about coverage.

 

Or, you can use your DIY liquid.

 

Cannot predict when your PAWS will resolve. If it's been getting worse since July 12, probably not going away anytime soon. The decision is up to you.

[lexapoison]

Sorry want to make sure I get this formula right as well: 40mL of water, 5mg of Lexapro = .125mg of Lexapro/mL?

 

If that’s correct then 20mL of water with 5mg of Lexapro taking .5mL should give me .125mg as well correct?

 

Which would be the better route to take assuming these formulas my foggy brain put together are actually accurate? I’m assuming the 20mL route since less measuring of water = less variables.

 

Also a bad reaction would be considered any new or worsening of symptoms directly after taking the solution, correct? 

 

 

[ChessieCat]

Diluting with more water means that you can measure with better accuracy.

 

It is possible to get 0.5mL syringes.  A vet might sell you some.

 

Remember to always use the same equipment and method each time.  Even using the same area of a bench or table.  I suggest that you write yourself a "recipe" so that you can refer back to if needed.  Everybody, even "regular people" have mental blanks at times.

 

You can see by the different ratios of tablet to water that the more water you use the easier it is to measure.

 

Examples:  5mg tablet in:    20mL, 40mL, 50mL, 100mL

 

I'm a visual person and I like to do the calculations step by step, and you have this for later reference (however please double check my calculations).

 

You can use the ratio to calculate the amount of solution to measure for your dose.  I've used 0.125mg dose in these examples.

 

 

5mg : 20mL

divide both sides by 5

1mg : 4mL

 

multiply both sides by 0.125mg

 

0.125mg : 0.5mL

 

          OR

 

5mg : 40mL

divide both sides by 5

1mg : 8mL

 

multiply both sides by 0.125mg

 

0.125mg : 1mL

         

          OR

 

5mg : 50mL

divide both sides by 5

1mg : 10mL

 

multiply both sides by 0.125mg

 

0.125mg : 1.25mL

 

          OR

 

5mg : 100mL

divide both sides by 5

1mg : 20mL

 

multiply both sides by 0.125mg

 

0.125mg : 2.5mL

[ShiningLight]

https://www.rncalc.com/drug_dosage_liquid/dosage_liquid.php

Don't know if that would help, I use it to calculate mine.

[lexapoison]

Thank you guys and yeah I had planned of making a “recipe” to have handy.

[ChessieCat]

4 hours ago, ShiningLight said:

https://www.rncalc.com/drug_dosage_liquid/dosage_liquid.php

 

D(desired) Dose:

H(have) Dose:

Q(quantity)

____________________________

X(amount)= ? milliliter

 

If you put the quantities into the fields above the line then the X(amount) will tell you the amount of the solution you need to take for the dose.

 

So using the amounts:  wanting to take 0.125mg (125 micrograms), 5mg tablet, 100mL water = 2.5mL to take.

[lexapoison]

Amazing! Thank you!

[lexapoison]

From my benzo forum post I’m interested in what you guys would choose to go away immediately if you had the choice if you could only pick one thing.

 

If i had to choose one symptom to go away, this is tough, but I think it would probably be the anhedonia. If I had interest in things and emotions I think I’d be able to relate to the world and keep myself occupied better to get through the rest.

[Shep]

13 hours ago, lexapoison said:

Also a bad reaction would be considered any new or worsening of symptoms directly after taking the solution, correct? 

 

Please see the below for a timeline and information on bad (adverse) reactions.

 

About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms

 

On 10/8/2012 at 7:17 PM, Altostrata said:

How long should you give reinstatement?

• Unless you have an immediate bad reaction, observe your symptom pattern for about a week to see if the reinstatement is helping. It takes about that long for your body to fully register the addition of most neuroactive drugs. If you have an immediate bad reaction, reduce or stop taking the drug.
• After reinstatement, stabilizing on the drug varies according to the individual. Relief can be felt immediately, after some weeks, or after some months.
• A slight immediate improvement is a good sign, this probably will progress as the drug ramps up to steady-state over a week. Improvement often occurs in The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization
• More is not better! Your system has gotten a shock and may react badly to "normal" amounts of drug. Reinstatement may not immediately eliminate all withdrawal symptoms. It takes time to stabilize, you may still experience waves of symptoms, which usually lessen as time goes on. Give your nervous system time to settle down, be patient after you reinstate, do not leap to increase the dosage.
• Think in terms of months before you attempt to taper again. Once you feel withdrawal symptoms are reduced after reinstatement, give your nervous system time to stabilize before attempting dosage reduction. Do not attempt to taper again until you feel symptom-free, or at least until your withdrawal symptoms are mild, predicatable, and tolerable.

 

When to discontinue reinstatement

• If, upon reinstatement, you very soon feel worse, most likely you are sensitized to the drug and need to take a smaller dosage or, possibly, none at all. You will need to track your daily symptom pattern to see if it's the drug causing your symptoms. If so, they generally will be worse shortly after you take the drug.
• Sometimes reinstatement does not work. The nervous system has taken such a hard hit from withdrawal, it's destabilized beyond whatever effect the drug might have had.
• You get an adverse reaction from the drug. Look up your drug at drugs.com to identify known adverse reactions. A rash is always a bad sign. Sometimes an adverse reaction can be eliminated by taking a lower dosage.
• If you have an immediate severe bad reaction, reduce or stop taking the drug

 

[lexapoison]

What about the air bubbles in the syringe?

[Altostrata]

Please read up on Using an oral syringe and other tapering techniques

 

Also, you can always ask a pharmacist.

[lexapoison]

9/14:

I did it. Reinstated .125mg of Lexapro today.

 

8am: Woke up to anxiety.

10am: Spoke to girlfriend for 45 minutes, nothing but problems. Got out of bed.

11am: Feeling kind of alright maybe cause my aunt is here so it’s a change of pace and anxious about reinstating Lexapro at noon.

12pm: Reinstated Lexapro .125mg. Ate half a sandwich. Felt alright. Slight panic, slight fear, slight anxiety, slightly agitated.

1pm: Been sitting on couch feeling the same.

2pm: Medium stomachache, some dizziness and feeling slightly warm, ears getting a bit clogged. Scared it’s the Lexapro. Same symptoms other than that. I don’t know why I’ve been so agitated lately. 

3pm: Still on couch. Slight dizziness still a thing. Some panic.

4pm: Ate some food, panic went up. Slight dizziness is still a thing and slight stomachache is back.

5pm: Went to play video games. Some anhedonia. Lots of anxiety. 

7pm: Stopped playing video games and started crying really bad. Just an odd bad dark feeling making me cry. Dizziness and stomachache got better I think. Headaches have been better than yesterday.

8pm: Back playing video games calmer talking with my girlfriend.

9pm: Headache is worlds better today first time in a long time. Left to get food feeling really really out of it and on edge. Got Wendy’s for some reason it tasted OUT OF THIS world good. Got home took .5mg of Ativan. Really don’t want to take this but worried about getting off and not taking it.

10pm-1am: Video games. Anxiety high. Anhedonia. Really out of it. I don’t think this Ativan is doing much for me than maybe kinda relaxing me and giving me stomachaches. But the physical part of my akathisia has been a lot better maybe the Ativan is helping that? Honestly can’t believe how much better my headaches have been today. DP/DR, dark thoughts, panic, anxiety, anhedonia still high.

 

Thank you guys.

[getofflex]

Lexapoison consider me old fashioned and a fuddy duddy.  (I'm 58).  But, would you consider refraining from the video games after 7 or 8 PM, and trying to go to bed at 10 or 10:30, and stay in bed and rest/sleep the best you can for at least 7 or 8 hours?  This could be part of the problem.  I find for me, it really helps to keep myself on a regular routine of eating, sleeping, exercising, activity, and rest.  I've seen my son play video games, and they are very stimulating, and if I played his games, they would make me very anxious.  There is lots of fighting, and violence, and the constant motion of the game is highly stimulating.  Just a thought here.  

 

I think it is probably a good thing you reinstated to a low dose of the Lexapro. Hang in there. I'm praying for you. 

[lexapoison]

I understand and agree. The games I play are not fast paced or stimulating and I put the volume on very low. I think my monitor was a bit bright so I lowered the brightness I hope that helps out. I worry about going to bed earlier that I will wake up earlier and have to lay in bed alone for along time full of anxiety. I will attempt to start going to bed earlier though and see how it goes. Thank you so much. This wd has taken everything from me I can’t believe it’s trying to take my stupid video games away from me too. I hope my reinstate works really banking on it..

[ChessieCat]

41 minutes ago, lexapoison said:

I will attempt to start going to bed earlier though and see how it goes.

 

If you have regularly been going to bed late it might be better to gradually bring the time you retire 1/2 hour or 1 hour earlier.  And you could do that for a few nights, eg instead of 1am go to bed at 12.30 or 12 for 3 or more nights and then repeat.