HopeFloats: Prozac, amino acids, withdrawals – reinstating Prozac

[HopeFloats]

12 hours ago, Shep said:

 

 

I'm going to add onto what you and mdwstrx are discussing. 

 

I've re-read your last drug and symptoms journal and it's really hard to say if the reduced GABA is causing this, if it's the side effects of the Tryptophan, if it's a combination, or if it's as you and mdwstrx are discussing - a wave.

 

Question - do you feel you are "overall" improving? Are you able to do a bit more now than say, a month ago? Can you tell if the battle fatigue from being sick so long is at play? It can be very hard to tell battle fatigue from the drug-induced fatigue, but what is your gut reaction? 

 

Shep,

 

I am at a loss. I just don’t know what to do and am extremely uncomfortable.

 

My sleep seems to be getting worse and that scares me so much. 

 

I havent slept through the night in over 6 weeks.

 

Please help.

 

HF

[mdwstrx]

HF, 

I really feel for you being so uncomfortable. 

FYI, it may help to hyperlink @Shep or @Altostrata

if you're trying to get their attention.

[HopeFloats]

11 minutes ago, mdwstrx said:

HF, 

I really feel for you being so uncomfortable. 

FYI, it may help to hyperlink @Shep or @Altostrata

if you're trying to get their attention.

 

I will give that a try.

 

Feeling very discouraged today. Read a link about how long all of this takes by Brass Monkey and it was not as optimistic as I was hoping. Seems with reinstatement, some people can take two years to stabilize. Two years of torture or is there some semblance of a life during this time?  That scares me to death. 

 

Also, I don’t mean to take away from other people’s plight and their own suffering but I have been comparing my insomnia with others. It seems my case of insomnia is way worse. It may just be the few people I have read about. But I am scared that my insomnia is a worse case scenario and that is going to hinder my chances of stabilizing.

 

I only get light, interrupted sleep that maybe totals 2-4 hours. What’s crazy is I am wide awake and not super fatigued the next day. 

 

Oh, MD - I am feeling so blue.

[mdwstrx]

Well, anyone would be.  So I get it.  But these guys on here are the best and will walk you through this.  

How are you feeling now with the anxiety?

[street129]

22 hours ago, ChessieCat said:

The discussion is about learning to accept that it is what it is at this time, and how to spend your time.   Acceptance

 

I think that the less we stress about how we are feeling means that the brain isn't busy dealing with that stress and has more ability to make the adjustments that it needs to make.  It's not about denying that we are suffering, the suffering is a fact, but learning non drug ways to cope with the discomfort so that you can stay calm and as stress free as possible.

 

Think of it like being stuck in traffic and/or getting stuck at traffic lights.  You can't make it go any faster.

 

Or this one:  Use the image of waiting in a queue, the line gradually gets shorter. When you are in a queue you can't make it move any quicker than it does. You have no control over it. All you can do is wait in the line. How you wait is what is going to make a difference. You can either be impatient and start getting irritable and think bad things and complain to the other people who might start swearing at you which makes you feel worse or you can try to be patient and calm and try and think of nice things and look at the things around you. It's going to take the same amount of time for you to get to the head of the queue but you can either make the experience of waiting pleasant or unpleasant.

WOW,  GLAD I READ THIS, I WILL REMEMBER THIS ONCE I START MY TAPER.
 

[HopeFloats]

7 minutes ago, mdwstrx said:

Well, anyone would be.  So I get it.  But these guys on here are the best and will walk you through this.  

How are you feeling now with the anxiety?

 

My anxiety was better today. Ranged between a 3 -4. It may have hit a 5 for a short period. Overall, it was better though. I am grateful for that. 

[mdwstrx]

In glad to hear that!  Hopefully the wave is beginning to pass.  🙏

Are you keeping track daily of the symptoms and severity

so you can see progress?

[brassmonkey]

It's the very rare case that doesn't stabilize for two years, most people have it happen a lot faster.  It's not all torture either, like WD it is a gradual process that ebbs and flows but gets better as you go along.  It's not a good idea to compare yourself to worst case threads, because it almost always not true.  Yes this process takes a lot longer than we would like it to, but part of the reason is because we recommend taking things very slow and easy to maintain some sort of life, and reduce the symptoms as much as possible.  I think stabilizing is one of the hardest aspects of ADWD because there is not much you can do except put a plan in place and slog along until things settle down.

 

We have and have had a good number of members who got by on one or less hours of sleep a night for periods of weeks or months.  Insomnia is one of the symptoms that most people are extremely afraid of because they believe that they can't function without sleep.  Although their capacity is greatly diminished for the time each one of them has made it through and moved on.  Their fear of dying from lack of sleep was unfounded and that fear actually worked against them by helping to keep them awake.

 

It all goes back to what we were talking about several posts ago about handling anxiety, capitulation and the like.

[HopeFloats]

17 minutes ago, mdwstrx said:

In glad to hear that!  Hopefully the wave is beginning to pass.  🙏

Are you keeping track daily of the symptoms and severity

so you can see progress?

 

I keep my daily log but I think I need to find another way to track everything. I know you mentioned a spreadsheet so I may give that a try. I do need a visual reminder that I’m making progress.

 

[HopeFloats]

36 minutes ago, brassmonkey said:

It's the very rare case that doesn't stabilize for two years, most people have it happen a lot faster.  It's not all torture either, like WD it is a gradual process that ebbs and flows but gets better as you go along.  It's not a good idea to compare yourself to worst case threads, because it almost always not true.  Yes this process takes a lot longer than we would like it to, but part of the reason is because we recommend taking things very slow and easy to maintain some sort of life, and reduce the symptoms as much as possible.  I think stabilizing is one of the hardest aspects of ADWD because there is not much you can do except put a plan in place and slog along until things settle down.

 

We have and have had a good number of members who got by on one or less hours of sleep a night for periods of weeks or months.  Insomnia is one of the symptoms that most people are extremely afraid of because they believe that they can't function without sleep.  Although their capacity is greatly diminished for the time each one of them has made it through and moved on.  Their fear of dying from lack of sleep was unfounded and that fear actually worked against them by helping to keep them awake.

 

It all goes back to what we were talking about several posts ago about handling anxiety, capitulation and the like.

 

Brass Monkey - you are such a wealth of information. I wish I could carry you around in my pocket. 

 

When you said not to compare myself to the worst case scenario threads because they are “almost always not true”. What do you mean by that? 

 

Thank goodness most people stabilize after reinstatement prior to 2 years. When I was reading “How Long Til We Get There” - it stung to read some of it. The CT or FT part lasting over 8 years threw me for a loop b/c that is what I did. I don’t think I could survive 8 years in my current state. 

 

Then I realized there was a section on Reinstatement which seemed more promising, although still a little daunting.

 

Is it fair to say that everyone or most everyone who reinstates goes on to stabilize and heal? What if the person did a FT over 2-3 years and then CT and then waited 4.5 months to reinstate at a low dose?

 

I know I am taking up your time today but I thank you from the bottom of my heart and appreciate your kindness and willingness to help me.

 

I am a newbie and this whole situation is still new and petrifying to me. 

[street129]

On 9/9/2019 at 5:27 PM, HopeFloats said:

 

I am sorry - I know my negativity and frustration is coming out. I’m just scared and have only been doing this for a little over a month now so I haven’t had a lot of windows to build my confidence up. It is just so hard to not be scared and to think that maybe I’m an exception and I am the one who won’t heal because of the way I handled things. In addition, this whole w/d situation is putting my IVF on the back burner which is like rubbing salt on an open wound. I’ve already waited so long to have a baby and now this happens and I’m forced to wait even longer.

 

 

I KNOW HOW YOU FEEL WHEN I DID MY FIRST TAPER HERE ON THIS BOARD BACK IN 2017 I WAS IN THE SAME BOAT AS YOURSELF, EVERYTHING YOU'RE FEELING NOW I DID TOO , AFTER 3 MONTH OF NO IMPROVEMENT I WENT BACK TO MY ORIGINAL DOSES, AND WAS OUT OF WD RIGHT AWAY,  THE END OF NOVEMBER WILL BE 2 YEARS SINCE I REINSTATED.

  
I AM IN THE PROCESS OF DOING MY TAPER AGAIN USING A DIFFERENT METHOD.   

I CANNOT GAVE YOU ANY ADVISE, BUT I HOPE YOU GET A RELIEF FROM WD SOON.

[HopeFloats]

5 minutes ago, street129 said:

I KNOW HOW YOU FEEL WHEN I DID MY FIRST TAPER HERE ON THIS BOARD BACK IN 2017 I WAS IN THE SAME BOAT AS YOURSELF, EVERYTHING YOU'RE FEELING NOW I DID TOO , AFTER 3 MONTH OF NO IMPROVEMENT I WENT BACK TO MY ORIGINAL DOSES, AND WAS OUT OF WD,  RIGHT AWAY .IT'S  NOW 2 YEARS ALMOST SINCE I REINSTATED.

I WANT AND IN THE PROCESS OF DOING A TAPER AGAIN USING A DIFFERRNT METHODE.   

I CANNOT GAVE YOU ANY ADVISE, BUT I HOPE YOU GET A RELIEF FROM WD SOON.

 

Hi Street129,

 

How long were you tapering before you stopped taking the drug altogether?

 

What method are you using now?

 

Did you also have horrible anxiety and insomnia? 

 

Thank you for your well wishes. I need them!

 

HF

[Dejavu]

Hi Hope, just wanted to weigh in with my thoughts and encouragement.

 

I crashed super hard after a 3.5 week "taper" from 50mgs of zoloft last November. I was quite literally bedbound. I made lots of mistakes and unnecessary changes (kindling myself in the process), and was not able to stabilize. But after staying steady on the same dose, I finally started to see small improvements after about a month. Now, after 6 months, I feel close to stabilization. I have many very good days. So no, it isn't all pain and suffering until stability is achieved.

 

I understand you are tapering supplements at this time, under the watchful eyes of Shep and Sassenach. You have the best of the best helping you. So please be patient and gentle with yourself. I understand the misery you are feeling (been there; sometimes I'm still there), and how badly you want to recover (as we all do), but worrying just adds to the anxiety and is not good for your CNS.

 

A word about acceptance: in the beginning, I wholeheartedly rejected the concept of acceptance, because it was so contrary to my nature. I've never been one to just "sit there and take it." I fought so hard against withdrawal that I was brain-fried, panicked and utterly exhausted, all day, every day. And no matter how hard I fought, the withdrawal was still there. There's just no percentage in fighting this. It's one of the few things we cannot bend to our will. It's not about accepting withdrawal as permanent. It's about acknowledging that withdrawal is what it is - for now. And since we cannot beat it into submission, we must outsmart it instead. We do that by building new and positive neural pathways in the brain. Brassmonkey makes some great suggestions for accomplishing this a little further up in your thread. (In fact, I suggest reading as many of his posts and essays as you can. He is very insightful and knowledgeable.) I think it's good that you are able to work, although I know how difficult it is. But it stimulates brain activity and keeps you distracted.

 

For sleep, I found these things helpful: blackout curtains over the bedroom window and wearing a sleep mask. Both these things made a huge difference. I no longer have cortisol spikes or morning anxiety and regularly sleep 7-8 hours a night. 

 

Bottom line - you will stabilize. Nobody can tell you when, which is scary, I know. Believe me, I'm with you on that. But we have absolutely everything to gain by relaxing and trusting the process. You will be fine.

[brassmonkey]

"When you said not to compare myself to the worst case scenario threads because they are “almost always not true”. What do you mean by that?"

 

"  It's not a good idea to compare yourself to worst case threads, because it almost always not true."  Brassmonkey

 

Poor wording on my part. It's because the comparison is almost always not accurate.  There is no way of knowing the entire story for the other person and there are so many factors involved that to make a one to one comparison is impossible. Also because of all the variables involved it is pretty much impossible to predict how a certain  action will affect that person.  What we have is a huge pool of experience from which we have worked out what seem to be the best course of action for the majority of people., and  We always say that each persons taper is an individual journey and for  this reason we try to work with each individual and help them make sense of what is happening.  Each individual taper is just that individual and has to be monitored and adjusted as it progresses.
 

[Shep]

12 hours ago, HopeFloats said:

My sleep seems to be getting worse and that scares me so much. 

 

I havent slept through the night in over 6 weeks.

 

9 hours ago, brassmonkey said:

We have and have had a good number of members who got by on one or less hours of sleep a night for periods of weeks or months.  Insomnia is one of the symptoms that most people are extremely afraid of because they believe that they can't function without sleep.  Although their capacity is greatly diminished for the time each one of them has made it through and moved on.  Their fear of dying from lack of sleep was unfounded and that fear actually worked against them by helping to keep them awake.

 

Brassmonkey is spot on here. I went for two years getting 1 - 3 hours of sleep and still kept a full-time job. And I'm in my early 50s, so not a youngster any more. I still have waves of 3 - 4 hours of sleep a night and it hasn't killed me. I'm amazed at how functional many of us are during withdrawal and recovery. 

 

I would caution against driving while sleep deprived.  I live in a large city with buses and a subway system (I haven't owned a car in years), so I've been navigating quite well considering the sleep deprivation. So if you can navigate through this with alternative ways of transportation, you'll do just fine.

 

Unfortunately, insomnia is very common for most of the people who come to this forum. 

 

You may want to schedule a day or two of vacation or sick leave from time to time. For those of who work through withdrawal, being strategic about time off can make a big difference.

 

10 hours ago, HopeFloats said:

My anxiety was better today. Ranged between a 3 -4. It may have hit a 5 for a short period. Overall, it was better though. I am grateful for that. 

 

You're seeing improvements. You'll get there.

[HopeFloats]

1 hour ago, Shep said:

 

 

Brassmonkey is spot on here. I went for two years getting 1 - 3 hours of sleep and still kept a full-time job. And I'm in my early 50s, so not a youngster any more. I still have waves of 3 - 4 hours of sleep a night and it hasn't killed me. I'm amazed at how functional many of us are during withdrawal and recovery. 

 

I would caution against driving while sleep deprived.  I live in a large city with buses and a subway system (I haven't owned a car in years), so I've been navigating quite well considering the sleep deprivation. So if you can navigate through this with alternative ways of transportation, you'll do just fine.

 

Unfortunately, insomnia is very common for most of the people who come to this forum. 

 

You may want to schedule a day or two of vacation or sick leave from time to time. For those of who work through withdrawal, being strategic about time off can make a big difference.

 

 

You're seeing improvements. You'll get there.

 

Shep,

 

Does my level of insomnia sound like it will last for 1 -2 years?

 

Do you see people with it as badly as I have it get better in under 1 year?

 

I worry not just for the obvious reason of wanting to sleep normally, but I have another stressful situation going on in the sidelines.

 

My husband and I did IVF several years ago and have frozen embryos that we were planning on transferring back this year.  However, now that I am sick, we cannot do that.

 

I am anxious to get well so we can move on and close the infertility chapter of our lives as well.

 

If we succeed and we get to take home a baby from the frozen embryos, it is daunting for me to think that I can have insomnia all the while dealing with a newborn baby at all hours of the night.  I still need to work as well.  

 

I cannot let W/D take my chance of being a mother from me.  That can't happen.

 

I know you were strong and your insomnia lasted a couple of years - was that b/c after you stabilized, you continued to taper?  My goal is to stabilize and stay on the low dose of Prozac.  I know stability does not mean normalcy but isn't it pretty darn close?

 

I appreciate your help, Shep.  Thank you.

 

HopeFloats

[HopeFloats]

·         9/10:

·         12:05pm - woke up

·         1:27am - woke up feeling anxious

·         2:00am - went out to my couch

·                         tossing and turning, anxiety is still there

·         3am - I guess I fell asleep, just looked at clock at 3am

·                    feel too wide awake, going to get up and walk around my house

·         3:10am - anxiety is a 5, it feels like I am charged, amped up and scared half to death

·                         watched some tv

·         3:48am - turned tv off, going to try and get some sleep

·         5am - woke up, anxiety is back

·         6:15am - got up

                           I.B.S. twice 

·         6:30am - took 1.25 mg Prozac

·                         anxiety is a 5 - feel amped up and on edge 

           9:24am - tried to put my sun visor up in my car and I was struggling with it, it triggered a faster heart rate.  

          9:49am - went into work late b/c of the horrible night's sleep I got

          10:12am - my mood seems to be ok though.  Weird.

           11:12am - anxiety is like a 3 - Whoo Hoo!

         12noon - took a long walk. Anxiety increased.  Any physical movement is triggering for me.

        1pm - I can still feel the pain in my left foot where I must have had a Charlie Horse in the middle of the night - except I swear I never woke up - I dreamt about having it       instead.  So weird.

         1pm - eating part of a frozen Atkins meal

           3:06pm - feeling mild butterflies and queezy stomach - would rate 3 or 3.5

           3:30pm - feel like I am becoming more agitated, moving around my office alot

           4:08pm - if I was in a window, I think I may be out, anxiety increased to a 5 after I took another walk

           6:35pm - anxiety b/t a 3 and 4

                when I cough, I can feel tightness

                I know the anxiety is just brewing under the surface, it is like I am being plugged into an outlet and charged

            7:55pm - don't feel tired

                            decided to lie down, going from sitting to lying down position, my anxiety increased to a 5 or 6

           8pm - took 400 mg Magnesium and 25mg Irong

           8:05pm - lying down trying to relax and not look at my phone, anxiety is a 4 or 5 now

           8:30am - guess I am starting to feel a little tired, anxiety is a 5, racy/adrenaline feeling

           9pm - took reduced dosage of GABA Calm, 22.5 ml

                      anxiety is a level 5

            9:30pm - took 1000 mg Tryptophan

                            not any more tired than I was before

             9:50pm - heart rate is at 73 bpm so it has gone down a little, anxiety has lessened, think it may be from the GABA

                             tiredness wise, not that tired

           10pm - took time released 1.05 mg Melatonin

                        still the same level of tired from earlier, don't think the GABA or Tryptophan helped make me more tired

                        I think the GABA may have actually relaxed my anxiety a bit though

          10:09pm - turning tv off, going to try and sleep on the couch tonight

         10:42pm - still awake but feel anxiety increasing? 

        11:52pm - looked at clock, not sure if I fell asleep or not

        9/11:

        1am - looked at clock, feeling anxious

       1:52am - woke up

       2:46am - woke up

       4:23am - woke up, went back to bedroom, don't think I fell back to sleep though

       6am - got up

       6:30am - took 1.25 mg Prozac

                      anxiety is like a 3.5

 

 

                           

 

    

[HopeFloats]

 

11 hours ago, HopeFloats said:

 

My anxiety was better today. Ranged between a 3 -4. It may have hit a 5 for a short period. Overall, it was better though. I am grateful for that. 

 

MD -

 

I think I spoke too soon.

 

My anxiety was at level 5 for a lot of the night.

 

It is so weird that I rate my anxiety differently when I am sitting upright, and being active.  Once I lie down, I am noticing that it feels completely different.  Isn't that strange?

 

Last night, when I was sitting upright on my couch looking at my phone, I felt my anxiety was somewhat moderate.  Then, I go to lie down and relax on the couch, and I feel a surge go through me.  I definitely thought it was more of a level 5.

 

Ugh.

 

HF

[mdwstrx]

Good morning HF. 

 

"Once I lie down, I am noticing that it feels completely different.  Isn't that strange?"

Distraction? 

 

"I know the anxiety is just brewing under the surface, it is like I am being plugged into an outlet and charged."

I copied this from another person's post when I was in acute wd because it so aptly described my feelings.  Does it sound like yours at all?

 

 

*If I had to describe it in terms of physical sensations I would say its like inner shaking/trembling, feeling of electrical buzzing, a kind of clenching gripping sensation in my stomach, waves of nausea like sensations, constant feeling of pressure in head and body, increased senses as if I'm primed to detect any change in my environment to detect danger.  Nothing I do decreases it.  But at a certain time in the day, usually for me, around mid afternoon I suddenly notice it reduces and within about an hour I'm feeling more normal.  On bad days it will last all day and not go away until 8 or 9pm, but usually for me, I'm getting significant relief by about 5pm.   This is actually a common pattern in withdrawal and its connected with the natural cortisol cycle.

In addition to the sleep suggestions given by mods above, I finally quit watching the clock.  It didn't matter really what time I woke up and I was gettting into a habit of expectation.   Also, Headspace.com had a sleep exercise that helped me return to sleep when I woke so often in the night.   Start counting backward from 10,000.  It's purposely a ridiculously high number and of course, you never get to zero (hopefully  ).  But you have to focus your thoughts on what number comes next rather than on the anxiety.   Hoping you continue to see some improvements today.

 

 

[HopeFloats]

7 hours ago, brassmonkey said:

"When you said not to compare myself to the worst case scenario threads because they are “almost always not true”. What do you mean by that?"

 

"  It's not a good idea to compare yourself to worst case threads, because it almost always not true."  Brassmonkey

 

Poor wording on my part. It's because the comparison is almost always not accurate.  There is no way of knowing the entire story for the other person and there are so many factors involved that to make a one to one comparison is impossible. Also because of all the variables involved it is pretty much impossible to predict how a certain  action will affect that person.  What we have is a huge pool of experience from which we have worked out what seem to be the best course of action for the majority of people., and  We always say that each persons taper is an individual journey and for  this reason we try to work with each individual and help them make sense of what is happening.  Each individual taper is just that individual and has to be monitored and adjusted as it progresses.
 

 

Is it fair to say that most people or everyone who reinstated at a low dose will go on to stabilize between 3 months - 2 years? 2 years being more on the rare side?

 

I did a FT for 2-3 years and then a CT in March 2019. I reinstated Prozac at a low July 31st 2019.

 

I am worried my reinstatement won’t work b/c I did it past the.3 month mark.

 

What do you think? 

[HopeFloats]

9 hours ago, Dejavu said:

Hi Hope, just wanted to weigh in with my thoughts and encouragement.

 

I crashed super hard after a 3.5 week "taper" from 50mgs of zoloft last November. I was quite literally bedbound. I made lots of mistakes and unnecessary changes (kindling myself in the process), and was not able to stabilize. But after staying steady on the same dose, I finally started to see small improvements after about a month. Now, after 6 months, I feel close to stabilization. I have many very good days. So no, it isn't all pain and suffering until stability is achieved.

 

I understand you are tapering supplements at this time, under the watchful eyes of Shep and Sassenach. You have the best of the best helping you. So please be patient and gentle with yourself. I understand the misery you are feeling (been there; sometimes I'm still there), and how badly you want to recover (as we all do), but worrying just adds to the anxiety and is not good for your CNS.

 

A word about acceptance: in the beginning, I wholeheartedly rejected the concept of acceptance, because it was so contrary to my nature. I've never been one to just "sit there and take it." I fought so hard against withdrawal that I was brain-fried, panicked and utterly exhausted, all day, every day. And no matter how hard I fought, the withdrawal was still there. There's just no percentage in fighting this. It's one of the few things we cannot bend to our will. It's not about accepting withdrawal as permanent. It's about acknowledging that withdrawal is what it is - for now. And since we cannot beat it into submission, we must outsmart it instead. We do that by building new and positive neural pathways in the brain. Brassmonkey makes some great suggestions for accomplishing this a little further up in your thread. (In fact, I suggest reading as many of his posts and essays as you can. He is very insightful and knowledgeable.) I think it's good that you are able to work, although I know how difficult it is. But it stimulates brain activity and keeps you distracted.

 

For sleep, I found these things helpful: blackout curtains over the bedroom window and wearing a sleep mask. Both these things made a huge difference. I no longer have cortisol spikes or morning anxiety and regularly sleep 7-8 hours a night. 

 

Bottom line - you will stabilize. Nobody can tell you when, which is scary, I know. Believe me, I'm with you on that. But we have absolutely everything to gain by relaxing and trusting the process. You will be fine.

 

Hi DejaVu,

 

Thank you so much for your encouragement. I truly appreciate it.

 

What is kindling? How long did the kindling last? Did you have anxiety? How long did your insomnia last?

 

This process is so hard because we have no idea how long it’s going to last.

 

I did a fast taper over 2-3 year period of time. Then CT in March 2019.

 

I am assuming the amino acids may have buffered the w/d from hitting - it didn’t hit until July 24. I reinstated July 31. So, I reinstated 4.5 months after the fact. This website says it’s best to do it either within 1 or 3 months. Either way, I am past that point.

 

Can reinstatement still work for me in a reasonable amount of time? I am hoping to stabilize within 6 months. If it takes a year, as long as it’s not torture the entire year, then so be it. I can’t imagine having the strength for it to take longer than one year though 

 

Do you see people reinstate successfully who did a FT over 2-3 years and then CT?

 

I appreciate your reaching out to me and your willingness to help me.

 

HF

[HopeFloats]

Hello @mdwstrx

 

I have been going through your Introduction thread and came across something about PAWS. I’m too scared to research this right now but wanted to ask you if this is something I should concern myself with?

 

Thank you,

 

HF

 

[Dejavu]

2 hours ago, HopeFloats said:

What is kindling? How long did the kindling last? Did you have anxiety? How long did your insomnia last?

Think of the literal definition of kindling. Adding something to the fire to make it burn hotter. In withdrawal, this can take the form of many things, like switching or stopping meds too abruptly, or in my case, reinstating at too high a dose. Any change that acts as an accelerant to an already sensitized nervous system. This is why we continue to caution you about increasing your dose. You are not kindled, and we want to keep it that way. Kindled people do go on to heal, but go through unnecessary suffering to get there. Please do not worry about kindling. You are not kindled. 

 

The worst of my anxiety is gone. I cannot put my finger on exactly when it went. It was gradual over time. I still sometimes get a little free-floating anxiety when I'm in a wave, but nothing unmanageable. My sleep improved quickly after I hung the blackout curtains and started wearing my sleep mask. Sometimes now I forget to put it on and my sleep is still ok. 

 

2 hours ago, HopeFloats said:

So, I reinstated 4.5 months after the fact. This website says it’s best to do it either within 1 or 3 months. Either way, I am past that point.

 

1-3 months is not a hard-and-fast rule. It is merely the time frame in which reinstatement is most reliably predicted to work. People have been known to successfully reinstate past the 3 month timeframe. The fact that you're seeing some occasional slight improvement would tend to indicate that your reinstatement is working. It takes time.

2 hours ago, HopeFloats said:

Can reinstatement still work for me in a reasonable amount of time? I am hoping to stabilize within 6 months. If it takes a year, as long as it’s not torture the entire year, then so be it. I can’t imagine having the strength for it to take longer than one year though 

I think you know the answer to this question already. Withdrawal and recovery are very individual things. I remember reading stories about people who stabilized after a couple of months, and thinking it wasn't going to happen for me because it was taking me longer. But it is happening for me, and it will for you too. I too struggle, even now, with how long it's taking. I think we all do. We all believe at times that we can't go on much longer. And then we do. That's when the peer support we get from each other becomes so valuable. It takes as long as it takes, but generally, you become more and more functional until finally stability arrives.

 

It concerns me that you are trying to apply an arbitrary timetable to your recovery. It is so understandable to want this over with as soon as possible. I feel the same way. But fighting against the symptoms doesn't help, and in fact, can make them worse and actually prolong your suffering. Here is a link on acceptance that Sassenach previously sent you. Please give it another read.

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/3533-acceptance/

 

And also

 

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/17909-are-we-there-yet-how-long-is-withdrawal-going-to-take/

 

Bottom line - there's no way to know how long it's going to take. We have to learn to sit with that uncertainty, which is difficult at best. But I keep thinking about my Mother's battle with cancer. It wasn't much different in many ways. She didn't expect the diagnosis. Treatment took a very long time. Her life changed; she had a "new normal" to deal with for a while. She had good days and bad. The outcome was uncertain and that was frightening. The differences are that withdrawal is not potentially lethal, and the uncertainty centers around WHEN we will heal rather than IF. So, if you think about it in those terms, it could be worse. Just a little shift in perspective can help you go farther than you ever thought you had it in you to go. 

 

You'll be okay. Time and patience are the keys. You will get there.

[brassmonkey]

I've been doing some research and found some interesting things.  I still need to do some digging but it looks like there are some bad interactions between the supplements that you're taking.  For one thing DLPA can cause insomnia and anxiety along with l-tryptophan and they react badly with GABA to cause insomnia and anxiety.  Also it is recommended to stop DLPA supplementation at least 20 weeks before trying to become pregnant.  Like I said I need to do some more digging, but I think it would be a good idea to start reducing the DLPA.  ATM I think a 25% a week straight taper would be okay.  Most places say it's okay to CT, but I wouldn't suggest it.

 

I'll get back when I have more information.

[HopeFloats]

55 minutes ago, Dejavu said:

Think of the literal definition of kindling. Adding something to the fire to make it burn hotter. In withdrawal, this can take the form of many things, like switching or stopping meds too abruptly, or in my case, reinstating at too high a dose. Any change that acts as an accelerant to an already sensitized nervous system. This is why we continue to caution you about increasing your dose. You are not kindled, and we want to keep it that way. Kindled people do go on to heal, but go through unnecessary suffering to get there. Please do not worry about kindling. You are not kindled. 

 

The worst of my anxiety is gone. I cannot put my finger on exactly when it went. It was gradual over time. I still sometimes get a little free-floating anxiety when I'm in a wave, but nothing unmanageable. My sleep improved quickly after I hung the blackout curtains and started wearing my sleep mask. Sometimes now I forget to put it on and my sleep is still ok. 

 

 

1-3 months is not a hard-and-fast rule. It is merely the time frame in which reinstatement is most reliably predicted to work. People have been known to successfully reinstate past the 3 month timeframe. The fact that you're seeing some occasional slight improvement would tend to indicate that your reinstatement is working. It takes time.

I think you know the answer to this question already. Withdrawal and recovery are very individual things. I remember reading stories about people who stabilized after a couple of months, and thinking it wasn't going to happen for me because it was taking me longer. But it is happening for me, and it will for you too. I too struggle, even now, with how long it's taking. I think we all do. We all believe at times that we can't go on much longer. And then we do. That's when the peer support we get from each other becomes so valuable. It takes as long as it takes, but generally, you become more and more functional until finally stability arrives.

 

It concerns me that you are trying to apply an arbitrary timetable to your recovery. It is so understandable to want this over with as soon as possible. I feel the same way. But fighting against the symptoms doesn't help, and in fact, can make them worse and actually prolong your suffering. Here is a link on acceptance that Sassenach previously sent you. Please give it another read.

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/3533-acceptance/

 

And also

 

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/17909-are-we-there-yet-how-long-is-withdrawal-going-to-take/

 

Bottom line - there's no way to know how long it's going to take. We have to learn to sit with that uncertainty, which is difficult at best. But I keep thinking about my Mother's battle with cancer. It wasn't much different in many ways. She didn't expect the diagnosis. Treatment took a very long time. Her life changed; she had a "new normal" to deal with for a while. She had good days and bad. The outcome was uncertain and that was frightening. The differences are that withdrawal is not potentially lethal, and the uncertainty centers around WHEN we will heal rather than IF. So, if you think about it in those terms, it could be worse. Just a little shift in perspective can help you go farther than you ever thought you had it in you to go. 

 

You'll be okay. Time and patience are the keys. You will get there.

 

Wow - that was a really thoughtful post, thank you.

 

I so get slight improvements - like where I think I am WDnormal - this is where I still have symptoms but they are more bearable- like a level 3 or below (on a scale of 1-10). So, if getting these slight improvements is an indication that the reinstatement is working, I’ll take that. 

 

I can understand how I should not put a timeframe on my healing. In addition to wanting to feel better, I do have another reason why I am so ancy. I have frozen embryos that I want to transfer back in the hopes of becoming a first time mother. I am old, too. These embryos are from years ago. I can’t wait much longer before transferring them back. But I can’t be in this state and do it. Scares me to death of being an insomniac and also trying to take care of a baby and get myself off to work by 8am. I just want this trauma to be over. 

 

I do have concerns about being on the amino acid Tryptophan though. It targets Serotonin and then with my low dose reinstatement of Prozac, I worry about two Serotonin targeting drugs. Not worried about Serotonin Syndrome b/c I take such a low dose but worries that my brain still feels it has too much Serotonin in it and that is why my anxiety and insomnia seem so bad. Plus, people generally don’t take SSRI together with the aminos. Any thoughts on the amino acids? 

 

Also, thank you for telling me I am not kindled. That is comforting. Although, I do feel that my w/d symptoms changed once I did the reinstatement. The first week of w/d was bad but it was the overall, unwell feeling and fatigue, just plain sick and weak. After a week of that I reinstated. Then a week later, is when I really noticed the problems with sleeping and increased anxiety. Could that be a sign of kindling?

 

I so appreciate your kindness to me through this devastating situation. 

 

HF

[HopeFloats]

3 minutes ago, brassmonkey said:

I've been doing some research and found some interesting things.  I still need to do some digging but it looks like there are some bad interactions between the supplements that you're taking.  For one thing DLPA can cause insomnia and anxiety along with l-tryptophan and they react badly with GABA to cause insomnia and anxiety.  Also it is recommended to stop DLPA supplementation at least 20 weeks before trying to become pregnant.  Like I said I need to do some more digging, but I think it would be a good idea to start reducing the DLPA.  ATM I think a 25% a week straight taper would be okay.  Most places say it's okay to CT, but I wouldn't suggest it.

 

I'll get back when I have more information.

 

Oh my gosh, Brass Monkey- you ROCK! Thank you so much for helping me.

 

Good news is I am off the DLPA. Tapered over 2 -3 weeks I think and it wasn’t painful at all. When I was on the DLPA, I thought I was going to die. It was so stimulating that I felt out of my mind. I would pace the floors at 3am. 

 

But the other two aminos- the GABA Calm (which has other ingredients like 25mg Tyrosine which is stimulating)  and the 1000mg Tryptophan. I have been wondering all along whether these two are hindering everything for me. Their interactions together and their interactions with 1.25mg Prozac.

 

Oh my gosh, if getting off the aminos will help ease my discomfort, I will be so grateful to you. 

[HopeFloats]

24 minutes ago, HopeFloats said:

 

Oh my gosh, Brass Monkey- you ROCK! Thank you so much for helping me.

 

Good news is I am off the DLPA. Tapered over 2 -3 weeks I think and it wasn’t painful at all. When I was on the DLPA, I thought I was going to die. It was so stimulating that I felt out of my mind. I would pace the floors at 3am. 

 

But the other two aminos- the GABA Calm (which has other ingredients like 25mg Tyrosine which is stimulating)  and the 1000mg Tryptophan. I have been wondering all along whether these two are hindering everything for me. Their interactions together and their interactions with 1.25mg Prozac.

 

Oh my gosh, if getting off the aminos will help ease my discomfort, I will be so grateful to you. 

 

I should add that I have done one taper with the GABA.  a 10% reduction of GABA last week I think. Within days though, my anxiety seemed to increase a little. Not sure if it was doing the decrease or if it was a normal wave though. Or if it has to do with the Tryptophan?

 

So, I have been holding with this one decrease. It is also hard to taper this supplement accurately as it is sticky and sticks to the side of the glass and to the the instrument I use to stir it. 

[mdwstrx]

"I have been going through your Introduction thread and came across something about PAWS. I’m too scared to research this right now but wanted to ask you if this is something I should concern myself with?"

 

Hi Hope...

I think the mods are much better to address the question, if you ask them.  Much of what they wrote today

seems to indicate you don't need to concern yourself.  Like you, I was told that slight improvements are a good sign

that you're slooooooowwwllly stabilizing.  It will sound like a broken record but pop open your excel app

and start tracking and graphing your symptoms so you can SEE the improvements and waves. 

 

I used two columns to rank my daily symptoms and insomnia for the day on a scale of 1-10. 

Then I created a graph and updated each day.  It was so hopeful to for me to see the hills and valleys

of waves and windows.  One day when I was in a vocal wave of despair, a mod copied and pasted my chart in her reply.

She told me to see for myself, my pattern of improvements.   ...and she was right.

 

 

[street129]

19 hours ago, HopeFloats said:

 

Hi Street129,

 

How long were you tapering before you stopped taking the drug altogether?

 

What method are you using now?

 

Did you also have horrible anxiety and insomnia? 

 

Thank you for your well wishes. I need them!

 

HF

I'm still on my drug I was trying to taper but went into WD and I reinstated my drug during my 3 months taper and hasn't tried since 2 years ago.

The method:   I was  going through a compound pharmacy and was told the manufacture of their pill is different from the manufacture of my pill and that could have also been a facture in my WD.  I'm getting assistance this time around from someone that has experience and very knowledgeable on this board.

God keep him safe cause a lot of us turn to him for his knowledge on tapering. You're in good hands with him.

My pill is trazadone, I'm taking it for sleep will begin my taper once I have atleast 2 months of my capsule made up
Keep the fate.

 

[HopeFloats]

49 minutes ago, street129 said:

I'm still on my drug I was trying to taper but went into WD and I reinstated my drug during my 3 months taper and hasn't tried since 2 years ago.

The method:   I was  going through a compound pharmacy and was told the manufacture of their pill is different from the manufacture of my pill and that could have also been a facture in my WD.  I'm getting assistance this time around from someone that has experience and very knowledgeable on this board.

God keep him safe cause a lot of us turn to him for his knowledge on tapering. You're in good hands with him.

My pill is trazadone, I'm taking it for sleep will begin my taper once I have atleast 2 months of my capsule made up
Keep the fate.

 

 

Well you are in good hands - this is the place to be. I wish you well.

[HopeFloats]

3 hours ago, HopeFloats said:

 

I should add that I have done one taper with the GABA.  a 10% reduction of GABA last week I think. Within days though, my anxiety seemed to increase a little. Not sure if it was doing the decrease or if it was a normal wave though. Or if it has to do with the Tryptophan?

 

So, I have been holding with this one decrease. It is also hard to taper this supplement accurately as it is sticky and sticks to the side of the glass and to the the instrument I use to stir it. 

 

Not sure if this matters or not but I began the aminos right about when I stopped the Prozac - in March 2019. I didn’t notice any weird interactions at that time.

 

Perhaps now that I have a sensitive CNS and the interaction with the reinstatement of the Prozac is causing symptoms? Just a thought. 

[HopeFloats]

        9/11:

        1am - looked at clock, feeling anxious

       1:52am - woke up

       2:46am - woke up

       4:23am - woke up, went back to bedroom, don't think I fell back to sleep though

       6am - got up

       6:30am - took 1.25 mg Prozac

                      anxiety is like a 3.5

8am - at work, I seem in better spirits, need to eat as I am a little lightheaded, down 21 pounds

10am - anxiety has held steady at a 3, I know it is there but it is tolerable

10:30am - had some yogurt

11:52am - feeling tight in the chest.  I am obsessing over my situation.  No raciness or heart palp's, thank goodness

12:30pm - finished a frozen Atkins meal.  I used this over my last 3 meals.  That is how low my appetite is.  I used to be able to gobble one of these up.  Very sad.

2:46pm - feeling more energized but in a good way, anxiety has been at a 3 most of the day, its an ok day, can't say its good but its not a bad as I know it can get

                concerned about feeling more awake - I don;t sleep well so this concerns me

3:30pm - went on long walk

3:53pm - feeling something creeping in, feeling heavier in my chest, trying not to dwell 

5:39pm - I.B.S.

5:52pm - cooking an easy dinner but the whole act of cooking is triggering and increasing my heart rate

7pm - preparing my reduced GABA concoction, any activity triggers my heart rate

7:39pm - little anxiety in my stomach right now

7:45pm - starting to feel a little tired naturally

                still have that inner buzz, feel like I am plugged into an outlet and being charged feeling - this is with me all day

9pm - took reduced dosage of GABA 22.5 ml, biggest concern right now is the inner buzz feeling

           anxiety is overall a 3

9:30pm - took 1000 mg Tryptophan

                  GABA may have helped a little and made me a little sleepy

10pm - woke up to alarm, I must have dozed off a little before the alarm went off, then took time released 1.05 mg Melatonin

10:26pm - turned off tv and am trying to go to sleep

11pm - I think I may have dozed off on couch, moving to my bed now

9/12:

12:18am - woke up, toss and turn

1:22am - woke up, toss and turn

1:51am - feeling anxiety increasing

3:35am - woke up

4:30am - alarm went off - taking my husband to hospital for his surgery

6am - back home, lying in bed but can't sleep, I was yawning more than anyone in the surgery center but yet I cant'sleep

****new symptom*** Feels like static in my right ear or someone typing out a telegraph

6:30am - took 1.25 mg Prozac

6:35am - 9am - lied back in bed with my sleep mask, could not sleep, but felt peaceful just lying there, the static in my ear went away (thank goodness, that could be maddening)

 

*** Overall, this was an OK day, I guess this is what is considered a window?.  Not great b/c I still know I am not well or my 100% but it has not been as bad as I know it can get

****I always have that inner buzziness feeling with me which is triggering.  For instance, my dog barks, startles me, I feel a jolt go through my entire body

       Feels like I am being plugged into an outlet and charged

*** I am still concerned whether the 2 remaining supplements I am taking - GABA and Tryptophan are causing add'l problems.  I actually am hoping that they are b/c if we remove them from the equation, perhaps I can have some discomfort eased 

[HopeFloats]

21 hours ago, brassmonkey said:

I've been doing some research and found some interesting things.  I still need to do some digging but it looks like there are some bad interactions between the supplements that you're taking.  For one thing DLPA can cause insomnia and anxiety along with l-tryptophan and they react badly with GABA to cause insomnia and anxiety.  Also it is recommended to stop DLPA supplementation at least 20 weeks before trying to become pregnant.  Like I said I need to do some more digging, but I think it would be a good idea to start reducing the DLPA.  ATM I think a 25% a week straight taper would be okay.  Most places say it's okay to CT, but I wouldn't suggest it.

 

I'll get back when I have more information.

 

Hi @brassmonkey

 

Don’t mean to be a nuisance but wanted to follow up and see if you found anything else out.

 

Although, I no longer take the DLPA, do you think the remaining supplements could be causing problems? Either interacting with themselves or because I reinstated the Prozac?

 

Just looking for hope.

 

HF

[HopeFloats]

Hi @mdwstrx

 

I was wondering about the Propranolol you used to take. What was the reason you stopped taking it? Was it causing adverse reactions?

 

HF

[brassmonkey]

Hi Hope-- very busy day with life things, haven't had a chance to look any more.  I think the combination of the three might be causing some of the problems.

 

BTW could you update your signature about stopping the DLPA.

[HopeFloats]

6 minutes ago, brassmonkey said:

Hi Hope-- very busy day with life things, haven't had a chance to look any more.  I think the combination of the three might be causing some of the problems.

 

BTW could you update your signature about stopping the DLPA.

 

Ok I will update my signature.

 

The DLPA definitely caused problems but since I stopped it a couple weeks ago, maybe what I am left with is just W/D.

 

I keep thinking that b/t the reinstatement of Prozac and the Tryptophan that I may have too much Serotonin? 

 

It would just just be great if stopping the aminos could give me additional relief.

 

Hope things settle down with you.

 

Thank you,

 

HF