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HopeFloats: Prozac, amino acids, withdrawals – reinstating Prozac

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Sassenach

 hope you never experience the anger to find out.:rolleyes:

 

Stop worrying or it will happen.

Relax and take it day by day.

You are getting there.

 

Sass

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mdwstrx
1 hour ago, HopeFloats said:

Hi there - did you also have insomnia? It seems my three horrible symptoms are insomnia, anxiety and akasthia. I’m starting to worry about my lack of sleep. 

Yes.  I found that the insomnia followed my symptom pattern.  For me, it did improve over time but there can be a set back in a wave so don't be concerned if you have an off night after it begins to improve.  I followed the mods advice for sleep hygiene including getting a sleep mask.  That helped me as I was having the common early morning wakening due to cortisol spikes.   It does improve so hang in there and try to nap/rest when you're able.  

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HopeFloats
2 hours ago, Sassenach said:

 hope you never experience the anger to find out.:rolleyes:

 

Stop worrying or it will happen.

Relax and take it day by day.

You are getting there.

 

Sass

Hi Sassenach,

 

At around 10:30 this morning, I noticed a twinge of sleepiness. I am still feeling it at now 1:15pm.

 

since I had such a horrible nights sleep last night, I guess it could just mean my body is now wanting sleep.

 

However, I’ve had sleepless nights before where I still felt wired the next day.

 

So, I’m wondering if this is a good sign ? Maybe my body is noticing the DLPA taper? DLPA is stimulating so I was just wondering what your opinion is.

 

Thank you,

Hope Floats

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Sassenach
Posted (edited)

It could mean either hope.

The important thing is that you are experiencing changes

We will be using your diary to put those changes into context.

Do you understand what we mean by finding a baseline?

Sassenach

Edited by Sassenach

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HopeFloats

Hi Sassenach,

 

I believe finding my baseline is finding out how my body is reacting when all of the amino acids have been taken out.  

 

Unforunately, I had a very poor night's sleep last night.  I probably slept from 10pm - 12 midnight, then found it very hard to fall back to sleep.  I would imagine I did fall to sleep at times, but I just don't know. I did not feel the need to pace which is a good thing.

 

This morning, even with a poor night's sleep, I am wide awake.  Normal people who have a poor night's sleep feel tired the next day.

 

I am so scared that my body will never sleep properly again.

 

Thank you,

Hope Floats 

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HopeFloats

Daily Log:  8/20 (Tuesday)

 

8/20:

12 midnight -not able to sleep, tossed and turned

12:45am - got up and laid on couch, no lights or tv, thought that would make it worse

stayed on couch til 5 am, I just have fallen asleep but I couldn't tell you when or for how long

it was a bad night

5am - definitely anxiety and butterflies in my stomach

6am - got up to feed dogs

6:30am - took 1.25 mg Prozac

8am - I feel like my anxiety is worse, I would rate it a 4 or 5

8:30am - 3rd day of taking 375 mg DLPA ((((last day doing this dose)))))

anxiety feels about the same

9:20am - took a 10 min walk at work

9:40am - snacked on a few cherries, I have no appetite, have lost 13 pounds since July 24th

10:20am - anxiety is a 2 or a 3

10:40am - having some yogurt and feeling a twinge of tiredness

11:30am - increased chest pressure, still tired

11:50am - went on a walk

12noon - took lunch

1pm - noticing increased restlessness wanting to move my hands around, not keeping still, still tired though, lower mood, anxiety is a 1, maybe a 2

1:15pm - trying to eat a little something

1:30pm - noticed increased urination

2:45pm - still tired, anxiety is a 1 or a 2, chest pressure is ok right now

2:55pm - took another walk

3:30pm - my lower back is bothering me

4pm - dont feel as tired now but don't feel wired either, I am praying I get a good nights sleep, very worried

4:20pm - went on another walk

4:30pm - noticing more apparent heart palpitations

               chest pressure is a 1 or 2 - even though it is low, it is still bothersome to me

5pm - left work

6pn - 7pm - anxiety ranged from a 1 - 3.  

                    overall, I have to say my anxiety seemed better today

8am - took 400 mg Magnesium and 25 mg Iron

9pm - took 1.25 mg GABA Calm

9:30pm - took 1000 mg Tryptophan

9:45pm - took 1 mg Melatonin'

10 pm - went to bed 

8/21:

12 midnight - woke up, tookd 1 mg Melatonin, I may have fallen back to sleep but I am not sure

2pm - next time I remember looking at the clock, took 1 mg Melatonin, got up and laid on the couch

          anxiety is there but lower than it was 24 hours ago

          instead of dwelling on my anxiety level, i was just focusing on why the heck my body wont let me sleep

5am - noticing major butterflies in my stomach

6am - got up to feed dogs

6:30am - took 1.25 mg Prozac

 

 

 

 

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Sassenach

Hi Hope

 

3 hours ago, HopeFloats said:

I am so scared that my body will never sleep properly again.

 

You need to start focusing on the positive and stop creating problems in your head.

You obviously slept last night, you do not forget if you were awake, may well be you had light sleep.

At bedtime you are taking GABA, Tryptophan & Melatonin, all intended to help sleep.

It may be that you are experiencing a paradoxical reaction.

If so all these meds are trying to sedate your system to the point it starts to fight back and you do not sleep well.

We have a Mod on here is very experienced in such matters and I have asked for her take on this.

How have you felt today after the DPLA reduction?

You are progressing and you are working which is HUGE in W/D.

Give yourself a break.

 

Sassenach

 

 

 

 

 

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HopeFloats
11 minutes ago, Sassenach said:

Hi Hope

 

 

You need to start focusing on the positive and stop creating problems in your head.

You obviously slept last night, you do not forget if you were awake, may well be you had light sleep.

At bedtime you are taking GABA, Tryptophan & Melatonin, all intended to help sleep.

It may be that you are experiencing a paradoxical reaction.

If so all these meds are trying to sedate your system to the point it starts to fight back and you do not sleep well.

We have a Mod on here is very experienced in such matters and I have asked for her take on this.

How have you felt today after the DPLA reduction?

You are progressing and you are working which is HUGE in W/D.

Give yourself a break.

 

Sassenach

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, I must have fallen in and out of sleep. I guess that is promising.

 

Today was the first day I took 250 mg DLPA and I feel ok. Nothing unusual to report. No worsening of symptoms. 

 

Overall, I believe that reducing the DLPA has been positive. The pacing at night has stopped, I noticed an overall reduction in anxiety yesterday. I know the reduction is helping me.

 

You bring up an interesting point about my possibly having a paradoxical reaction.

 

My gut is telling me that I just have too many things in my system.

 

My system was used to just one thing - Prozac for a very long time.

 

Thank you for your support. I appreciate you and the other mods as well.

 

Hope Floats 

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Sassenach

Will let you know what other Mod says.

Continue with 250mgs tomorrow and if all ok half to 125mgs on friday.

 

Sassenach

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Shep
22 hours ago, HopeFloats said:

8am - took 400 mg Magnesium and 25 mg Iron

9pm - took 1.25 mg GABA Calm

9:30pm - took 1000 mg Tryptophan

9:45pm - took 1 mg Melatonin'

10 pm - went to bed 

8/21:

12 midnight - woke up, tookd 1 mg Melatonin, I may have fallen back to sleep but I am not sure

2pm - next time I remember looking at the clock, took 1 mg Melatonin, got up and laid on the couch

          anxiety is there but lower than it was 24 hours ago

          instead of dwelling on my anxiety level, i was just focusing on why the heck my body wont let me sleep

 

Hope, this does indeed look like a paradoxical interaction happening, as you and Sassenach noted. 

 

 

19 hours ago, HopeFloats said:

Today was the first day I took 250 mg DLPA and I feel ok. Nothing unusual to report. No worsening of symptoms. 

 

Overall, I believe that reducing the DLPA has been positive. The pacing at night has stopped, I noticed an overall reduction in anxiety yesterday. I know the reduction is helping me.

 

I'm glad you're seeing improvements regarding the change in 250 mg DLPA.

 

But I'd also like to address the issue of the high dose of  melatonin. You may have already been given this and read it, but just to be sure, please see:

 

Melatonin for sleep

 

On 4/6/2011 at 9:26 PM, Altostrata said:

Large doses of melatonin do NOT aid sleep -- they might cause your oversensitive brain to wake up, instead. I found when I took more than 2mg of melatonin, I was weepy in the morning. If you get this or a paradoxical reaction (waking) or are dopey in the morning, it's a sign you're taking too much.

 

Please read through the first post in the Melatonin for Sleep thread. 

 

Please keep posting your drug and symptoms journal over the coming days and let's see if we can't help you set up a schedule that will have less of these paradoxical events. 

 

How much melatonin are you taking each night? The total this past night was 3 mg, which is a very high dose. Is this your regular amount or does it change each night? 

 

 

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HopeFloats
54 minutes ago, Shep said:

 

Hope, this does indeed look like a paradoxical interaction happening, as you and Sassenach noted. 

 

 

 

I'm glad you're seeing improvements regarding the change in 250 mg DLPA.

 

But I'd also like to address the issue of the high dose of  melatonin. You may have already been given this and read it, but just to be sure, please see:

 

Melatonin for sleep

 

 

Please read through the first post in the Melatonin for Sleep thread. 

 

Please keep posting your drug and symptoms journal over the coming days and let's see if we can't help you set up a schedule that will have less of these paradoxical events. 

 

How much melatonin are you taking each night? The total this past night was 3 mg, which is a very high dose. Is this your regular amount or does it change each night? 

 

 

Hi Shep,

 

I appreciate your assistance with this.

 

Prior to July 24th, I hadn't felt the need to use Melatonin for a while. I maybe took only 1 mg Melatonin and that was enough.

 

After July 14th, with the horrible insomnia, I guess I decided to up the dose myself.

 

With the insomnia, I would take 1 mg Melatonin around 10pm, however, after that, it was whenever I felt it necessary.  So, yes, I have been taking anywhere from 3 mg - 4mg (there were a couple nights I did 4 mg) per night throughout this whole ordeal. 

 

I can cut back on this if you believe that I should.

 

Thank you,

Hope Floats

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HopeFloats

Daily Log:  8/21 (Wednesday)

8/21:

12 midnight - woke up, tookd 1 mg Melatonin, I may have fallen back to sleep but I am not sure

2pm - next time I remember looking at the clock, took 1 mg Melatonin, got up and laid on the couch

          anxiety is there but lower than it was 24 hours ago

          instead of dwelling on my anxiety level, i was just focusing on why the heck my body wont let me sleep

5am - noticing major butterflies in my stomach

6am - got up to feed dogs

6:30am - took 1.25 mg Prozac

8am - got to work

            anxiety has lessened a bit, like a 2 now

8:15am - anxiety is like a 1 now, I feel ok

                 I noticed the chest pressure has gotten a lot better

                  just still worried about why I am having so much difficulty sleeping when it used to be the easiest thing I did in life

                 and with such interrupted sleep, I feel very wide awake

8;30am - 1st day of taking 250 mg DLPA

9:30am - snacked on some grapes and then some yogurt

10am  - feeling a little different in the head.  Not sure if this is dizzyness.

10:30am - getting that tired feeling, feeling like something is "rushing" my head

                   If I were at home, I would like down to rest

                    not sure how to describe this odd sensation in my head  - maybe a buzzed or drunk feeling?

11am - anxiety is at a 2 (just got back from a walk, too)

11:30am - ate a little lunch

11:45a - anxiety is a 2 or 3

                chest pressure is stronger making it harder to breathe comfortably and heart palpitations

12noon - took a 1 hour lunch, rested in my car

1pm - anxiety is down to a 1, I wish i could go lie down some more

2pm - mid - lower back is bothering me

2:30pm - feeling very awake but not wired or restless, anxiety is still low

2:45pm - went on a walk

3pm - feeling heart palpitations, it feels like my heart is thumping

            rest of anxiety is low but the palpitations make it a 3

3:45pm - heart palpitations have gone down anxiety is back to a 1

                 my mood is better, mentally I am feeling more "normal" right now

4pm - anxiety back up to a 2

4:05p - took a walk

4:20pm - anxiety is a 2 or 3

                biggest concern today is now my back pain and the heart palpitations, like a 2 - 3 range

                not a lot of breath support when I am trying to talk

5pm - left work

6:30pm - anxiety has lessened

8pm - took 400 mg Magnesium and 25 mg Iron

          lying on the couch, I notice I am moving around a lot, very fidgety, can't get comfortable

          maybe a little RLS in my left leg?

          beginning to feel sleepy though

9pm - I actually dozed off on the couch but something woke me up right away

           took 1.25 mg GABA Calm

9:30pm - took 1000 mg Tryptophan

9:45p - took 1 mg Melatonin

10pm - went to bed

8/22:

12 midnight - woke up, took 1 mg Melatonin, could not fall back to sleep

1am - got up, went out to lay on my couch

 

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Sassenach

Good afternoon Hope from a cold and windy Scotland.

 

If you have not experienced any adverse reactions please reduce DLPA to125mgs tomorrow.

The intention is to then reduce Trytophan, This will also need to be done slowly to give us  a chance find a balance for future good sleep.

Is your tryptophan capsules, tablets or powder?

We also need to train your Circadian Rhythm.

Is whereever you are sleeping fully darkened?

It is important both for falling asleep and waking.

Your regular bedtime of 10pm is good as natural Melatonin should be kicking in by then.

In the morning the body begins producing Cortisol as soon as our eyes sense light.

On 8/21/2019 at 2:25 PM, HopeFloats said:

5am - definitely anxiety and butterflies in my stomach

 

2 hours ago, HopeFloats said:

am - noticing major butterflies in my stomach

Almost certainly Cortisol spikes, they are normal in W/D but do tend to diminish fairly quickly, dark room should mean gentler awakening.

If you have not already read the link Shep gave you, please do so.

Improving sleep is not only down to meds.

Palpitations, breathlessness, back pain. I know it sounds incredible but the range of possible symptoms in W/D is astounding.

dr-joseph-glenmullens-withdrawal-symptom-checklist/

Shep is the best so we are in good hands and you are getting there.

 

Sassenach

 

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HopeFloats
13 minutes ago, Sassenach said:

Good afternoon Hope from a cold and windy Scotland.

 

If you have not experienced any adverse reactions please reduce DLPA to125mgs tomorrow.

The intention is to then reduce Trytophan, This will also need to be done slowly to give us  a chance find a balance for future good sleep.

Is your tryptophan capsules, tablets or powder?

We also need to train your Circadian Rhythm.

Is whereever you are sleeping fully darkened?

It is important both for falling asleep and waking.

Your regular bedtime of 10pm is good as natural Melatonin should be kicking in by then.

In the morning the body begins producing Cortisol as soon as our eyes sense light.

 

Almost certainly Cortisol spikes, they are normal in W/D but do tend to diminish fairly quickly, dark room should mean gentler awakening.

If you have not already read the link Shep gave you, please do so.

Improving sleep is not only down to meds.

Palpitations, breathlessness, back pain. I know it sounds incredible but the range of possible symptoms in W/D is astounding.

dr-joseph-glenmullens-withdrawal-symptom-checklist/

Shep is the best so we are in good hands and you are getting there.

 

Sassenach

 

Ok, I will reduce to 125 mg tomorrow. That was two days holding at 250 mg instead of three. I am fine with reducing if you are. Just wanted to confirm that I’ve only taken the 250 for 2 days though.

 

My bedroom is pretty dark although we have a sliding glass door with no curtains so light does come through. 

 

The tryrophan is a hard tablet. I’m not sure how we will taper me off of this. Of course I’m scared, too. Tryptophan is providing serotonin support and when I begin to take this away, I’m worried my w/d symptoms are going to be horrible.

 

do I have to come completely off the Tryptophan before we can see about increasing the Prozac?

 

Thank you,

Hope Floats

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Sassenach
3 minutes ago, HopeFloats said:

I am fine with reducing if you are

You have not seen any adverse reactions so far, so go ahead.

 

4 minutes ago, HopeFloats said:

My bedroom is pretty dark although we have a sliding glass door with no curtains so light does come through. 

What about the lounge where you seem to sleep at times?

 

5 minutes ago, HopeFloats said:

do I have to come completely off the Tryptophan before we can see about increasing the Prozac?

This would be preferable, if you recall there was a interraction in the report between these two meds.

 

6 minutes ago, HopeFloats said:

The tryrophan is a hard tablet. I’m not sure how we will taper me off of this. Of course I’m scared, too. Tryptophan is providing serotonin support and when I begin to take this away, I’m worried my w/d symptoms are going to be horrible.

Can you try dissolving one in the next couple of days, it may take a while.

We can then be ready with the correct method.

Which exactly why we are going to do it slowly.

You are already improving and we are not going to jeopardise that.

Trust me, i'm not a doctor:rolleyes:

I hope the joke translates OK.

 

Sassenach

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HopeFloats
19 minutes ago, Sassenach said:

You have not seen any adverse reactions so far, so go ahead.

 

What about the lounge where you seem to sleep at times?

 

This would be preferable, if you recall there was a interraction in the report between these two meds.

 

Can you try dissolving one in the next couple of days, it may take a while.

We can then be ready with the correct method.

Which exactly why we are going to do it slowly.

You are already improving and we are not going to jeopardise that.

Trust me, i'm not a doctor:rolleyes:

I hope the joke translates OK.

 

Sassenach

I will try dissolving one tonight. 

 

The lounge or family room is probably darker than my bedroom.

 

i reaches out to a couple of people o found on the internet who appear to be authority’s when it comes to amino acids. They both say that if someone is on 1 SSRI , that it is ok to take Tryptophan as long as it is spaced 6 hours apart. Of course I’m very sensitive what with the W/D. But I’m wondering if the symptoms get really bad during the taper, that perhaps it may be ok to slightly raise the Tryptophan? As long as I’m lowering one? Could it be worse than where I’m already at? I’m currently taking both at the same time right now. Something to think about.

 

Your joke is funny 😆 

i trust you more than my doctor!

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Sassenach
2 minutes ago, HopeFloats said:

Could it be worse than where I’m already at?

Look back a couple of weeks and you will find your answer.

Shep is far better than any internet " expert ".

Have we so far asked you to do anything that has made you more ill?

I am not trying to be difficult but " fear of the fear " is a major W/D trigger.

On 8/21/2019 at 5:29 PM, Sassenach said:

You need to start focusing on the positive and stop creating problems in your head.

Relax Hope you will get better.

 

Sass

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HopeFloats
1 hour ago, Sassenach said:

Look back a couple of weeks and you will find your answer.

Shep is far better than any internet " expert ".

Have we so far asked you to do anything that has made you more ill?

I am not trying to be difficult but " fear of the fear " is a major W/D trigger.

Relax Hope you will get better.

 

Sass

 I agree, a couple of weeks ago was horrendous.  I was living in hell. 

 

No, you haven't asked me to do anything which has made me feel worse.  I definitely feel better since decreasing the DLPA.

 

I will try and relax.  I appreciate your optimism.  

 

I will also keep you posted about how my Tryptophan dissolves in water. 

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Shep
21 hours ago, HopeFloats said:

Prior to July 24th, I hadn't felt the need to use Melatonin for a while. I maybe took only 1 mg Melatonin and that was enough.

 

After July 14th, with the horrible insomnia, I guess I decided to up the dose myself.

 

With the insomnia, I would take 1 mg Melatonin around 10pm, however, after that, it was whenever I felt it necessary.  So, yes, I have been taking anywhere from 3 mg - 4mg (there were a couple nights I did 4 mg) per night throughout this whole ordeal. 

 

I can cut back on this if you believe that I should.

 

Please look over your notes and see what your average amount of melatonin is. Because you're making other changes right now, I wouldn't make any drastic changes to the melatonin. But if you usually don't take 3 or 4 mg, I would decrease it down to 2 mg, if that's more typical of your average use. 

 

And then stay very consistent with the timing of when you take it (the same time EVERY night) and the dose (the same dose EVERY night). The nervous system is needing consistency right now. 

 

Please post your thoughts on this and let us know what dose and the time you'd like to take it going forward. 

 

16 hours ago, Sassenach said:

I am not trying to be difficult but " fear of the fear " is a major W/D trigger.

 

Exactly, Sassenach. Yes, the secondary fear is huge for folks going through withdrawal. 

 

@HopeFloats Make sure you're using your non-drug coping techniques that target fear and anxiety. Sassenach posted these earlier in your thread, but they are so good, I'm going to re-post with the hope that you are finding some that you really like and are helpful: 

 

Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms

 

 

17 hours ago, HopeFloats said:

i reaches out to a couple of people o found on the internet who appear to be authority’s when it comes to amino acids. They both say that if someone is on 1 SSRI , that it is ok to take Tryptophan as long as it is spaced 6 hours apart. Of course I’m very sensitive what with the W/D. But I’m wondering if the symptoms get really bad during the taper, that perhaps it may be ok to slightly raise the Tryptophan? As long as I’m lowering one? Could it be worse than where I’m already at? I’m currently taking both at the same time right now. Something to think about.

 

Do these "authority's" on amino acids advocate the chemical imbalance of so-called "mental illness"? In other words, do they believe that increasing serotonin aids in so-called "depression"? 

 

Please note that the chemical imbalance theory has been discredited and is considered junk science. For more, please see:

 

Again, chemical imbalance is a myth. Stop the lies, please.

 

What you are dealing with is a destabilized nervous system. So trying to up the Tryptophan as you decrease the antidepressant may further agitate your nervous system. If you find yourself with symptoms as you decrease the antidepressant, then you would hold, make a slight updose, and / or slow your taper rate down.

 

There is no "fix" for correcting a destabilized nervous system. What works is a slow taper, minimizing stress, and working with non-drug coping skills to soothe the traumatized nervous system. 

 

This thread may help explain:

 

One theory of antidepressant withdrawal syndrome

 

On 5/24/2011 at 10:59 PM, Altostrata said:

Once disinhibition of the alerting system takes hold, it becomes self-perpetuating. The whole question of neurotransmitter imbalance -- a chimera of psychiatry anyway -- becomes moot. No manipulation of serotonin, norepinephrine, or dopamine is going to help. In fact, it usually makes the condition worse.

Noradrenergics -- buproprion or Wellbutrin; mirtazapine or Remeron; SNRIs such as Cymbalta, Serzone, Effexor; and St. John's Wort, rhodiola -- stimulate "fight or flight" activation, as will most SSRIs. Drugs and substances that are stimulating should be avoided.

Even drugs that are calming may cause a paradoxical reaction as the alerting system fights to stay in control.

My guess is: The first phase of withdrawal, the acute phase, is the initial shock of withdrawal, with the most defined symptoms, such as brain zaps and nausea and possibly waves of unusually intense "depression" and "anxiety" -- actually, emotions generated by the neurological upset. Later, glutamatergic hyper-reactivity and autonomic instability take over. Often the autonomic instability causes wide hypersensitivity to drugs, supplements, and even foods.

 

And another great thread: 

 

How psychiatric drugs remodel your brain

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HopeFloats
2 hours ago, Shep said:

 

Please look over your notes and see what your average amount of melatonin is. Because you're making other changes right now, I wouldn't make any drastic changes to the melatonin. But if you usually don't take 3 or 4 mg, I would decrease it down to 2 mg, if that's more typical of your average use. 

 

And then stay very consistent with the timing of when you take it (the same time EVERY night) and the dose (the same dose EVERY night). The nervous system is needing consistency right now. 

 

Please post your thoughts on this and let us know what dose and the time you'd like to take it going forward. 

 

 

Exactly, Sassenach. Yes, the secondary fear is huge for folks going through withdrawal. 

2 hours ago, Shep said:

 

Please look over your notes and see what your average amount of melatonin is. Because you're making other changes right now, I wouldn't make any drastic changes to the melatonin. But if you usually don't take 3 or 4 mg, I would decrease it down to 2 mg, if that's more typical of your average use. 

 

And then stay very consistent with the timing of when you take it (the same time EVERY night) and the dose (the same dose EVERY night). The nervous system is needing consistency right now. 

 

Please post your thoughts on this and let us know what dose and the time you'd like to take it going forward. 

 

 

Exactly, Sassenach. Yes, the secondary fear is huge for folks going through withdrawal. 

 

@HopeFloats Make sure you're using your non-drug coping techniques that target fear and anxiety. Sassenach posted these earlier in your thread, but they are so good, I'm going to re-post with the hope that you are finding some that you really like and are helpful: 

 

Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms

 

 

 

Do these "authority's" on amino acids advocate the chemical imbalance of so-called "mental illness"? In other words, do they believe that increasing serotonin aids in so-called "depression"? 

 

Please note that the chemical imbalance theory has been discredited and is considered junk science. For more, please see:

 

Again, chemical imbalance is a myth. Stop the lies, please.

 

What you are dealing with is a destabilized nervous system. So trying to up the Tryptophan as you decrease the antidepressant may further agitate your nervous system. If you find yourself with symptoms as you decrease the antidepressant, then you would hold, make a slight updose, and / or slow your taper rate down.

 

There is no "fix" for correcting a destabilized nervous system. What works is a slow taper, minimizing stress, and working with non-drug coping skills to soothe the traumatized nervous system. 

 

This thread may help explain:

 

One theory of antidepressant withdrawal syndrome

 

 

And another great thread: 

 

How psychiatric drugs remodel your brain

 

@HopeFloats Make sure you're using your non-drug coping techniques that target fear and anxiety. Sassenach posted these earlier in your thread, but they are so good, I'm going to re-post with the hope that you are finding some that you really like and are helpful: 

 

Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms

 

 

 

Do these "authority's" on amino acids advocate the chemical imbalance of so-called "mental illness"? In other words, do they believe that increasing serotonin aids in so-called "depression"? 

 

Please note that the chemical imbalance theory has been discredited and is considered junk science. For more, please see:

 

Again, chemical imbalance is a myth. Stop the lies, please.

 

What you are dealing with is a destabilized nervous system. So trying to up the Tryptophan as you decrease the antidepressant may further agitate your nervous system. If you find yourself with symptoms as you decrease the antidepressant, then you would hold, make a slight updose, and / or slow your taper rate down.

 

There is no "fix" for correcting a destabilized nervous system. What works is a slow taper, minimizing stress, and working with non-drug coping skills to soothe the traumatized nervous system. 

 

This thread may help explain:

 

One theory of antidepressant withdrawal syndrome

 

 

And another great thread: 

 

How psychiatric drugs remodel your brain

 

Before I saw this post about not drastically reducing Melatonin, I did only take .5 mg at 10pm last night.  I took another .5 mg I think around 1 am.  I can increase this to 2 mg per night if you think.  I used to only take maybe 1 mg at night.  I upped it to 3mg - 4mg during this whole ordeal since July 24th.

 

I still had major interrupted sleep but I think I did fall back to sleep at some point even with the less Melatonin in my system.  I did notice I was not as tired last night though.  Even after taking the GABA Calm and Tryptophan at 9pm and 9:30pm respectively, I did not feel tired like I needed to go to bed until 10:40pm. 

 

Ok, I will continue to take everything at the same time every day.

 

Yes, I believe the authority's on amino acids must believe in the chemical imbalance theory.  They advocate using amino acids as a way to boost the neurotransmitters instead of using the SSRI's.  I agree that the whole chemical imbalance theory was never proved.  So, they are in essence, doing exactly what Big Pharma did, only with a different product. 

 

Just to clarify:  My question was not about increasing the Tryptophan.  It was about increasing the Prozac as I decrease the Tryptophan.  My goal is not to taper Prozac, at least at this point. My goal is to reinstate the Prozac, which I have done and have been holding at 1.25 mg for about 3 weeks.  My goal is to find relief from the W/D symptoms and maybe even feel "normal" again, even if it is with the aide of the Prozac.  

 

These W/D symptoms have been too traumatizing for me this past month and I don't ever want to go through this again.  If that means staying on a low dose of Prozac, I can live with that.  

 

 

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HopeFloats

Daily Log:  8/22 (Thursday)

12 midnight - woke up, took 1 mg Melatonin, could not fall back to sleep

1am - got up, went out to lay on my couch, must have fallen back to sleep

think I woke up a couple other times during the night

4am - woke up, anxiety seemed low

6:15am - actually got up 15 minutes late

6:30am - took 1.25 mg Prozac

8am - arrived at work 

           I noticed on the car ride over, my anxiety was like a 2 with heart palpitations

8:30am - took 250 mg DLPA (last dose at 250)

9am - anxiety has calmed to a 1

2pm - back is starting to get sore

           feeling a little tired as well

            anxiety is still around a 1

2:30pm - went on a walk

3:30pm - back is bothering me

4:45pm - anxiety still a 1, maybe at times a 2 when the heart palpitations start back up, 

                overall it has not been too bad this afternoon

6:20pm - feel energized, like my battery is being charged, I wouldn't call this a wired feeling

7pm - started majorly crying

           when I would watch something about elderly people and think of my grandparents

           or see something about babies and think of my predicament, I just had major sob sessions

7:30am - feel a little less amped up

8pm - took 400 mg Magnesium and 25 mg Iron

9pm - took 1.25 mg GABA Calm

9:30pm - took 1000 Tryptophan

10pm - took .5 mg Melatonin

             not feeling as tired as I normally do after I take the GABA and the Tryptophan

10:40am - finally feeling tired like I need to go to bed, which I did

12 am or 1am - woke up, took another .5 mg Melatonin

3am - woke up, must have gone back to sleep

4am - woke up, must have gone back to sleep

5am - woke up, must have gone back to sleep

6:15am - woke up late again

6:30am - took 1.25 mg Prozac

                anxiety is like a 1, it was not too bad during the night either, even when I woke up, I may have experienced minor butterflies but not as bad as it was previously

          

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HopeFloats

Hi Sassenach,

 

Here is a picture of the dissolved Tryptophan.  I did not measure how much water I used though.

 

Not sure if you can tell from the picture, but you can see the granules of Tryptophan when you swish the water over to one side.

 

Its like sand at the bottom of my glass.

 

Is this ok?  Also, I am not sure how much water I should have used to dissolve it.  I still only have the syringe that measures in 2.5 mg, the one with an orange cap on it. 

 

Thank you,

Hope Floats 

Dissolved Tryptophan.jpg

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HopeFloats

Sassenach,

 

My anxiety feels worse than yesterday. It’s like a 3 today. Trying to breathe deeply.

 

chest tightness, chest pressure, heart palpitations etc.

 

ugh- hate this 

 

Thank you,

Hope Floats

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Sassenach

Hello Hope

 

Wow Shep put in some serious work and your sleep last night means she has got it right.

She has noted you concerns about sleep and advised accordingly.

For the moment we will leave the Tryptophan at 1000mgs and try and improve your sleep rhythm, which appears to be happening, but could be better.

She wants you pick and hold a Melatonin dose that you feel will give you the best sleep.

I know, how long is a piece of string?

For many the optimum dose seems to be 2mgs, you may have to experiment for a couple of nights.

This is not about necessarily getting it right first time but getting you good sleep going forward.

5 hours ago, Shep said:

(the same time EVERY night) and the dose (the same dose EVERY night)

I understand you wake during the night and take Melatonin, for the moment I suggest you take the second dose the first time you wake.

Have you ever tried taking more than 1mg before bedtime?

2 hours ago, HopeFloats said:

6:15am - actually got up 15 minutes late

I know this is rare for you, could be the Melatonin being more effective with the other changes.

 

2 hours ago, HopeFloats said:

7pm - started majorly crying

           when I would watch something about elderly people and think of my grandparents

           or see something about babies and think of my predicament, I just had major sob sessions

This is good, you are not depersonalised or experiencing derealisation.

It is your body,s way of releasing the anxiety you have been experiencing.

 

3 hours ago, HopeFloats said:

Just to clarify:  My question was not about increasing the Tryptophan.  It was about increasing the Prozac as I decrease the Tryptophan.

 

We will not be asking you make any Prozac changes in the near future as you are moving in the right direction.

Let us know what you decide on the Melatonin.

You are doing a good job with your diary and it will an essential aid in getting this bit right.

 

Sass

 

 

 

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Sassenach

urghhhhhhhhhhhhhh we all do, but we will kick it's a**😈

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HopeFloats
21 minutes ago, Sassenach said:

Hello Hope

 

Wow Shep put in some serious work and your sleep last night means she has got it right.

She has noted you concerns about sleep and advised accordingly.

For the moment we will leave the Tryptophan at 1000mgs and try and improve your sleep rhythm, which appears to be happening, but could be better.

She wants you pick and hold a Melatonin dose that you feel will give you the best sleep.

I know, how long is a piece of string?

For many the optimum dose seems to be 2mgs, you may have to experiment for a couple of nights.

This is not about necessarily getting it right first time but getting you good sleep going forward.

I understand you wake during the night and take Melatonin, for the moment I suggest you take the second dose the first time you wake.

Have you ever tried taking more than 1mg before bedtime?

I know this is rare for you, could be the Melatonin being more effective with the other changes.

 

This is good, you are not depersonalised or experiencing derealisation.

It is your body,s way of releasing the anxiety you have been experiencing.

 

 

We will not be asking you make any Prozac changes in the near future as you are moving in the right direction.

Let us know what you decide on the Melatonin.

You are doing a good job with your diary and it will an essential aid in getting this bit right.

 

Sass

 

 

 

I think I took 2mg at once before bed. I did fall asleep easily that night but I remember waking up within two hours.

 

i really don’t know what my correct dose is. If it is ok to experiment a little, I can do that. 

 

Maybe i should try 1mg before bed and 1 mg when I first wake up.

 

Hope Floats

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HopeFloats

I’m curious - am I to continue with 125 mg of DLPA?

 

are we waiting to taper the tryrophan until my sleep cycle improves?

 

is it possible that the combination of Prozac and Tryptophan are too much for my system? Since they both target serotonin? 

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Sassenach
3 minutes ago, HopeFloats said:

i really don’t know what my correct dose is. If it is ok to experiment a little, I can do that. 

 

Maybe i should try 1mg before bed and 1 mg when I first wake up.

Spot on.

Go for it.

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Sassenach
1 minute ago, HopeFloats said:

I’m curious - am I to continue with 125 mg of DLPA?

My apologies, head like sieve today.

Today was first at 125mgs I believe, so take same dose tomorrow and provided you feel ok take no further doses.

5 minutes ago, HopeFloats said:

are we waiting to taper the tryrophan until my sleep cycle improves?

Yes, sleep hygiene first.

 

6 minutes ago, HopeFloats said:

s it possible that the combination of Prozac and Tryptophan are too much for my system? Since they both target serotonin?

It is possible but at the moment they are stable which is why Shep wants to improve your sleep first.

 

Sass

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Shep
6 hours ago, HopeFloats said:

I think I took 2mg at once before bed. I did fall asleep easily that night but I remember waking up within two hours.

 

i really don’t know what my correct dose is. If it is ok to experiment a little, I can do that. 

 

Maybe i should try 1mg before bed and 1 mg when I first wake up.

 

 

You may want to look into time-released melatonin. 

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HopeFloats
13 hours ago, Shep said:

 

You may want to look into time-released melatonin. 

Thank you for the suggestion.

 

I will go look for some today.

 

I truly appreciate all of your assistance.  I don't know where I would be without this website. 

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HopeFloats

Daily Log: 8/23 (Friday)

12 am or 1am - woke up, took another .5 mg Melatonin

3am - woke up, must have gone back to sleep

4am - woke up, must have gone back to sleep

5am - woke up, must have gone back to sleep

6:15am - woke up late again

6:30am - took 1.25 mg Prozac

                anxiety is like a 1, it was not too bad during the night either, even when I woke up, I may have experienced minor butterflies but not as bad as it was previously

7am - felt different this morning but I cannot describe how, I am a little tired, which is something I haven't felt in a long while, my arms feel heavy, I feel an overall weakness about me

anxiety seemed to increase, tightness in chest, chest pressure on my way to work

8:30am - took 1.25 DLPA (((1st time at this dose)))))

                anxiety seemed to lessen also around this time

9am - anxiety is like a 2 or a 3

9:30am - having some yogurt

                 anxiety is the same

11am - anxiety is bothering me today, not as good as it was yesterday

              I have been calling it a 3 on my scale but my scale may be inaccurate b/c this is really bothering me

              this actually may be more of a 5 or 6

12noon - chest pressure, bothersome

                 in the past I was rating this a 3

                 I think this is more of a 5 or 6

1:30pm - people at work are still commenting about how I appear to not feel well

2:30pm - dont feel a lot of relief today with the anxiety, my hands are shaky, too

                this is not a good day for me

5pm - left work

6pm - ate a little something

6:30pm - drove my brother somewhere, my back was really bothering me

7am - lied on the couch to watch tv

7:30pm - anxiety is lessening , back pain increasing

8pm - anxiety is a 1

           took 400 mg Magnesium and 25mg Irong

9pm - took 1.25 mg GABA Calm

           heart palpitations started again

9:30pm - took 1000 mg Tryptophan

10 pm - took 1 mg Melatonin

10:20pm - went to bed

8/24:

12 midnight - like clockwork, I woke up at midnight

                       took 1 mg Melatonin

1:30am - woke up again, could not fall back to sleep

2:15am - went to lay on the couch, must have fallen back to sleep, I recall waking a couple more times

6am - woke up, I could hear my alarm that was in the bedroom while I was out in the living room

6:30am - took 1.25 mg Prozac

              

          

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Sassenach

Hi Hope

 

Can you assess whether some of your anxiety is down to concern about your symptoms?

We often have muscle and joint pain occur as symptoms in W/D, but perhaps you should speak your doctor about your back pain as a precaution.

You are experiencing windows and waves

the-windows-and-waves-pattern-of-stabilization/

As your CNS settles the better days become more frequent and the others less so.

It is a long process for all of us but we will succeed.

 

Sass

 

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HopeFloats
3 minutes ago, Sassenach said:

Hi Hope

 

Can you assess whether some of your anxiety is down to concern about your symptoms?

We often have muscle and joint pain occur as symptoms in W/D, but perhaps you should speak your doctor about your back pain as a precaution.

You are experiencing windows and waves

the-windows-and-waves-pattern-of-stabilization/

As your CNS settles the better days become more frequent and the others less so.

It is a long process for all of us but we will succeed.

 

Sass

 

I don't believe my anxiety is because I am concerned that I am in W/D....I just  feel like my body is in a constant state of anxiety....sometimes it is better than others, but it is still somewhat amped up all the time....I can be perfectly content just sitting on the couch and I can feel the physical anxiety creep over me..

 

It is just so scary not knowing how long this is going to last for...

 

My husband and I have a cruise planned for this December.  We have until October to cancel and get our money back.  At this rate, I don't think I will be able to make it.  I think a cruise would be way too much for me to handle right now.

 

I also have a question about reinstating Prozac.  I know other people have had success getting back on their old SSRI and their W/D symptoms go away.  I am wondering why that would not work for me?  I don't think that 1.25mg is enough to get rid of them which is what I am taking right now.

 

 

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Sassenach
4 minutes ago, HopeFloats said:

I am wondering why that would not work for me?  I don't think that 1.25mg is enough to get rid of them which is what I am taking right now.

 

Your system is still in disarray and you have too many supplements to predict the outcom of an updose at present.

 

Sass

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HopeFloats
14 minutes ago, Sassenach said:

Your system is still in disarray and you have too many supplements to predict the outcom of an updose at present.

 

Sass

What are your thoughts on my sleep last night?  I still wake up at midnight every night.

 

Wondering if I should keep trying no more than 2 mg Melatonin or even drop it to .5 mg twice nightly?

 

Shep suggested I look for timed release Melatonin which I will go look for today.

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