HopeFloats: Prozac, amino acids, withdrawals – reinstating Prozac

[HopeFloats]

10 minutes ago, mdwstrx said:

Hi HF.

Just happened to have the site up and heard the popup sound... 

My heart goes out to you as I remember how terrible it was.  I don't know if you're a person of faith but let me remind you of this and this.

 

Your walk is different than anyone's here.  It's yours alone.  So while you can read my story and others', know that you will heal when you heal. 

Yes, it's unfair.  I was able to get through it relying solely on my faith first and this website secondly.  Though I had your same concerns... here is what helped me. 

 

I started getting windows... and then I realized that in the waves, as bad as I felt....

I knew it would end,though it didn't feel that way.  I had to use intellect over my emotion during the waves. 

Wd taught me what it must feel like to others who have catastrophic illness/injury.

In w/d, regardless of how long it takes, we do heal.

 

I signed up for Headspace.com and completed 30 sessions of their 'Managing Anxiety' app. 

To me it seemed worth it to pay a month's subscription.  Some of the best $$ I've spent. 

It taught me that our thoughts, feeling and emotions are clouds in the blue sky of our mind. 

Focus on your breath and let the clouds pass as you meditate.  

 

Again, I also listened to Christian ASMR on my Ipad and it calmed me greatly. 

 

It basically gets back to Acknowledge, Accept and Float in your own style, whatever that may be. For me, my style was to accept 100% that Jesus was stronger than wd. 

As is always the case, He carried me through it to the other side. 

 

Find your source of strength HopeFloats.... hold on, listen to the mods and let yourself heal.

💜

 

 

 

 

Thank you for your thoughtful response. You have a way with your words that are inspiring, caring and calming. I don’t know what I would do without you. 💜

[mdwstrx]

Give credit to where it's due... You are doing very well yourself.     You're staying calm and following the mods advice it seems.

I struggled with how a volunteer website could have more knowledge than my doctor (who is very respected in town). 

I followed his advice instead of holding as the mods/Alto suggested.  Thankfully, I caught on quick and didn't up-dose as much as he wanted me to. 

 

Here is an interesting story.  I went to church one Saturday in the midst of wd.  An old friend who I worked with for 30 some years was there.  

After the service, we chatted.  I was so preoccupied with the inner agitation I mentioned to her what was going on, uncharacteristically.

She piped up that she too had been on an AD for years (Prozac).  After retirement, she'd tapered down to where she was taking one 10 mg tablet per WEEK!

She was doing very well but scared to death to stop that one pill.  As far as I know, she still takes her one pill a week. 😕  

I told her about this website and don't know if she ever followed up.

 

 

 

 

[HopeFloats]

1 hour ago, mdwstrx said:

Give credit to where it's due... You are doing very well yourself.     You're staying calm and following the mods advice it seems.

I struggled with how a volunteer website could have more knowledge than my doctor (who is very respected in town). 

I followed his advice instead of holding as the mods/Alto suggested.  Thankfully, I caught on quick and didn't up-dose as much as he wanted me to. 

 

Here is an interesting story.  I went to church one Saturday in the midst of wd.  An old friend who I worked with for 30 some years was there.  

After the service, we chatted.  I was so preoccupied with the inner agitation I mentioned to her what was going on, uncharacteristically.

She piped up that she too had been on an AD for years (Prozac).  After retirement, she'd tapered down to where she was taking one 10 mg tablet per WEEK!

She was doing very well but scared to death to stop that one pill.  As far as I know, she still takes her one pill a week. 😕  

I told her about this website and don't know if she ever followed up.

 

 

 

 

 

It does seem strange that we need to turn to a website for help instead of being able to go to our doctors. I am thankful that we have SA to turn to but something is wrong with the system if our doctors are not aware of w/d syndrome. I talked to one psychiatrist that I found on SA website- he said that doctors do know about w/d syndrome but they won’t admit it- he said something to that effect. That they know about it but they just keep pushing more drugs on to people. My regular doctor was ready to give me a new diagnosis and send me on my way with Effexor. I urged her to at least look at the SA website as there is a lot of information for patients and doctors as well. I am pretty sure she will never bother. I’m so angry that these drugs made it out of clinical trials and into our lives. Weren’t they just tested on people who took them for 6 weeks?

 

How your friend tapered seems similar to how I did it. How I wish I had seen this website first, I never would have done it my way. I thought I was being smart by tapering so slowly. It didn’t matter since I was taking such huge decreases way too soon. I ended up on like 1 or 2 10mg pills per week as well. Didn’t realize that the intermittent symptoms I was having was w/d. I couldn’t put two and two together at that point. Your friend should definitely get on SA and get some advice with how to proceed with her taper. That was nice of you to direct her. I would imagine her doctor would give her the go ahead to just stop it like mine did.

[HopeFloats]

9/7:

12:10am - woke up

2:52am - just looked at the clock, I am assuming I feel asleep after waking at 12:10am

4:21am - just looked at the clock, I am assuming I feel asleep after waking at 2:52am 

5:47am - feeling anxiety, woke up again

6:15am - got up

6:30am - took 1.25 mg Prozac

                 anxiety is a 3 or 4, probably more 4, I feel like my body is being charged

7:30am or 8am - went into the spa, was hoping it would be really relaxing, I was really shaky after getting out of it

8:50am - still a little shaky, think my anxiety is the same, it is like a 4/5 leaning towards a 5

9am - cancelled my hair appointment

9:30am - crying a lot

10am - felt a little better, so I put my hair appointment back on the books for today

11:45am - hair appointment, it went ok, asked her to use the 10 minute solution b/c I was worried I wouldn't be able to sit still for the regular stuff

12:30pm - went to buy some candles

1pm - had some salad at home

1:30pm - 4:30pm - tried to do a little house cleaning, laundry

4:30pm - anxiety is a 4

5pm - had some salad

5:37pm - anxiety is a 3 or 4, nothing overtly standing out right now, but I know its brewing beneath the surface

6:20pm - on the couch, trying to relax, but I find myself constantly checking my phone, it is hard to concentrate on t.v.

7:30pm - anxiety started increasing, 4 or 5, no idea what triggered it, turned out it was short lived thank goodness

8:00pm - took 400 mg Magnesium and 25 mg Irong

8:47pm - feeling like I am moving around a lot on the couch, rubbing my feet together a lot, is this akathisia?

9pm  - took reduced 22.5 ml GABA Calm

9:30pm - feeling tired, took 1000 mg Tryptophan, very hopeful for a good night's rest

9:51pm - anxiety is better, not sure why???  

10pm - don't feel as tired as I did before, I just don't know what's going on, before, I was practically falling asleep and now I am not.  Could it be the Tryptophan?

            took time released 1.05 mg Melatonin

10:06pm - in bed

10:38pm - not falling asleep as quickly as I was hoping.  I really thought I was going to get a good night's sleep and then it seems after the supplements it changes

11:19pm - I don't think I have fallen asleep

9/8:

12:08am - not sure if I am sleeping, I may have fallen asleep after waking at 11:19pm.  But I can't tell?

1:19am - looked at clock, feeling anxious too

1:23am - getting up and going out to the couch

1:34am - anxiety is a 4 or 5, leaning towards a 5

2:40am - on the couch, going to put on sleep mask and try and fall to sleep

3:29am - looked at clock, I guess I fell asleep

4:53am - woke up, went back to my bed, was tired and lied there until I got up at 6:15am

6:30am - took 1.25 mg Prozac

                anxiety is like a 5

 

***Feeling really discouraged.  I began to notice an improvement in anxiety for a little while and was hoping a window was coming.  Then I try and go to sleep, and the crazy, interrupted, light sleeping starts.  So does the anxiety 

***How was I able to come off the DLPA with no side effects - only improvements?  But its possible the GABA could be causing an uptick in my symptoms?  Or was this just a wave that was bound to hit me?

[HopeFloats]

9/8:

12:08am - not sure if I am sleeping, I may have fallen asleep after waking at 11:19pm.  But I can't tell?

1:19am - looked at clock, feeling anxious too

1:23am - getting up and going out to the couch

1:34am - anxiety is a 4 or 5, leaning towards a 5

2:40am - on the couch, going to put on sleep mask and try and fall to sleep

3:29am - looked at clock, I guess I fell asleep

4:53am - woke up, went back to my bed, was tired and lied there until I got up at 6:15am

6:30am - took 1.25 mg Prozac

                anxiety is like a 5

7am - IBS

7:30am - anxiety is 4, queezy stomach and butterflies mainly

8:30am - anxiety is increasing to a 5

10am - anxiety is a 4, still butterflies and queezy stomach mainly

10:30am - got off the couch, showered and wanted to get ready to go do something

                    the act of moving around and getting ready triggered more anxiety

11:08am - in  the car on my way to go looking for a birthday present for my husband

                 definitely more ramped up

                  anxiety is a 4 or 5

2pm - still running errands even though I feel horrible

           anxiety has been elevated all day since - once I started moving around - BAM! - it has been terrible ever since

           elephant on my chest

            feel racy inside, elevated heart rate  

3pm - chest pressure released a little

            on edge feeling, racy feeling

            anxiety is a 5

4pm - had some salad

4:30pm - heart rate is elevated

                if I look down at my shirt, I can see it moving

                it is very uncomfortable

5pm - anxiety increased to a 6 or 7

6pm - walking around in my back yard, crying, praying that the way I feel will not be forever

           I am scared half to death

6:30pm - racy anxiety still, just not as much chest pressure

6:37pm - trying to read about people who have succeeded on SA.  

8am - took 400 mg Magnesium and 25 mg Iron

           I don't feel tired at all

         today is one of the worst days that I have had so far

8:08pm - think anxiety is reaching a tolerable level - not gone, but tolerable

                 have cried a lot today

                 is my anxiety lessening b/c the Magnesium hit my system so fast?

                 Or is it b/c it is dark outside now, it is dark in my house, I am resting on my couch with a candle lit?

8:12pm - anxiety lessening but I am still wired and wide awake, not tired

8:30pm - I can feel myself getting tired

9pm - took reduced 22.5 ml GABA Calm

           had a coughing fit which just triggered more anxiety

9:30pm - took 1000 mg Tryptophan

                 still feel tired but not sleeping

                  anxiety is a 4 b/c I can feel something racing through my veins

                  For example, if my dog barks unexpectedly, it sends a jolt all through my body

                 I am on edge

10pm - took time released 1.05 Melatonin'             

             still feel the jolt or electricity running through my veins

10:05pm - going to bed

10:41pm - tossing and turning in bed

11:32pm - dog started barking, not even sure if I have fallen asleep

9/9:

1:24am - woke up, feeling anxious

2am - was not able to fall back to sleep after waking at 1:24am.

           got up to go lie on couch, did not turn on tv or anything

3:17am - must have fallen asleep on the couch, woke up

                anxiety is a 4 or 5

4:19am - woke up again

4:34am - went back to my bed to try and sleep

                 not sure if I slept though

                think I mainly tossed and turned until my alarm went off at 6:15am

6:15am - got up

6:30am - took 1.25 mg Prozac

                 anxiety is a 3 or 4

 

*** Shep, could I have permanently wired my brain to be hyper sensitive forever? I feel like I am a worst case scenario after the day I had.   I am looking for any encouragement you can give me.  I would be so grateful.  

*** Could this increase in anxiety be because I am trying to lower a supplement that is suppose to help with anxiety?  The GABA Calm?    

*** I was reading on SA about other people's situations and came across something that scared me.  Dr. Shipko stated that some people never get better. This caused me more anxiety.

***Can I try popping Magnesium if I notice anxiety increasing during the day?

*** 9/8 was one of the worst days for me so far

[mdwstrx]

Good morning HF.  

I am so sorry you're dealing with so much discomfort and pain.  

My chart shows that between day 37 - day 40 from reinstatement (where you are now), I was also having one of my worst days.   

As for Dr. Shipko, I had personal messages with him and he told me that he'd never had a patient not get better who reinstated timely.

 

You're bound to be scared, we all were/are but worry does more harm than good in acute wd.  Focus on the good stories.  

You cannot afford to allow those half empty thoughts to prevail.  Avoid those triggers.  When the scary thoughts emotions and feelings enter your mind, practice

relaxation methods and let them pass, like the clouds they are.  🌥️

 

 

 

[HopeFloats]

44 minutes ago, mdwstrx said:

Good morning HF.  

I am so sorry you're dealing with so much discomfort and pain.  

My chart shows that between day 37 - day 40 from reinstatement (where you are now), I was also having one of my worst days.   

As for Dr. Shipko, I had personal messages with him and he told me that he'd never had a patient not get better who reinstated timely.

 

You're bound to be scared, we all were/are but worry does more harm than good in acute wd.  Focus on the good stories.  

You cannot afford to allow those half empty thoughts to prevail.  Avoid those triggers.  When the scary thoughts emotions and feelings enter your mind, practice

relaxation methods and let them pass, like the clouds they are.  🌥️

 

 

 

 

Thank you for reaching out. I am in a bad place. Yesterday was just horrible. Although, my anxiety is not the worst today, I am down in the dumps.

 

I worry because I did a bad taper for 2-3 years. I took huge decreases - I think you tapered slowly over a couple years but did the taper correctly. With a bad taper and then stopping the Prozac cold turkey in March 2019- I mean that I went from 1 10mg pill per week to nothing - i am worried that I have permanently done something. I did not reinstate days later - I reinstated four months later on top of doing the taper completely wrong. So I’m not sure what to think.

 

[HopeFloats]

MD - 

 

I don’t believe SA considers 4 - 4.5 months a timely reinstatement.

 

I am praying you have some insight to this.

 

HF

[mdwstrx]

I did the same, not knowing any better when tapering before wd hit.  I tapered by several 50 % cuts and held for months with little symptoms until the last jump from 2.5 mg to zero.  

 

2 hours ago, HopeFloats said:

MD - 

 

I don’t believe SA considers 4 - 4.5 months a timely reinstatement.

 

I am praying you have some insight to this.

 

HF

 

I don't have insight into what either SA or Dr. Shipko thinks is a timely reinstatement, other than of course, what SA has here on the site.  

 

However, I know what helped me tremendously was faith, attitude and focus on the positive.  I began to have better times during the day. 

Then better days. Very small at first, hardly noticeable.  Up and down and up and down.  But then the windows grew a bit longer.  They will for you too. 

None of us know your future but... I think it's safe to say that if you continue to focus on your fears, you will prolong your recovery.

 

Believe me, I know how hard it is not to fear when wd = fear.  My thread is full of posts where fear was very apparent.  

But in looking back, I really made attempts to AAF since intellectually, I knew it was the only way out for me. 

That is why the relaxation techniques are promoted. You practice learning to accept and let it go.  In time, you begin to.  The lessons stick with you. 

I use them now in tapering.  I made a cut a week ago Sat. and symptoms have held since.  I know they will slowly dissipate and I 'fear' that at the rate I'm tapering,

I may never get off this.    My fear tells me that I can't go as low as the success stories here; that I've been on ADs too long; etc... 

but with prayer and faith, I'm still here and feeling better.  YOU WILL BE TOO eventually.  

 

Your attitude and hope will see you through this regardless of how long it takes for you to stabilize.  No one here, no doctor,

(Shipko included), can tell you when that will happen.  Accept, relax and let it.  It's all you can do because to do otherwise will most

likely result in the outcome you fear worst, prolonging stabilization.   

 

You're not helpless here.  You must get into and try your best to maintain a state of AAF,  even if it means making changes in your life to allow for it. 

Nothing right now is more important than that 💜.

 

 

 

[HopeFloats]

2 hours ago, mdwstrx said:

I did the same, not knowing any better when tapering before wd hit.  I tapered by several 50 % cuts and held for months with little symptoms until the last jump from 2.5 mg to zero.  

 

 

I don't have insight into what either SA or Dr. Shipko thinks is a timely reinstatement, other than of course, what SA has here on the site.  

 

However, I know what helped me tremendously was faith, attitude and focus on the positive.  I began to have better times during the day. 

Then better days. Very small at first, hardly noticeable.  Up and down and up and down.  But then the windows grew a bit longer.  They will for you too. 

None of us know your future but... I think it's safe to say that if you continue to focus on your fears, you will prolong your recovery.

 

Believe me, I know how hard it is not to fear when wd = fear.  My thread is full of posts where fear was very apparent.  

But in looking back, I really made attempts to AAF since intellectually, I knew it was the only way out for me. 

That is why the relaxation techniques are promoted. You practice learning to accept and let it go.  In time, you begin to.  The lessons stick with you. 

I use them now in tapering.  I made a cut a week ago Sat. and symptoms have held since.  I know they will slowly dissipate and I 'fear' that at the rate I'm tapering,

I may never get off this.    My fear tells me that I can't go as low as the success stories here; that I've been on ADs too long; etc... 

but with prayer and faith, I'm still here and feeling better.  YOU WILL BE TOO eventually.  

 

Your attitude and hope will see you through this regardless of how long it takes for you to stabilize.  No one here, no doctor,

(Shipko included), can tell you when that will happen.  Accept, relax and let it.  It's all you can do because to do otherwise will most

likely result in the outcome you fear worst, prolonging stabilization.   

 

You're not helpless here.  You must get into and try your best to maintain a state of AAF,  even if it means making changes in your life to allow for it. 

Nothing right now is more important than that 💜.

 

 

 

 

I am sorry - I know my negativity and frustration is coming out. I’m just scared and have only been doing this for a little over a month now so I haven’t had a lot of windows to build my confidence up. It is just so hard to not be scared and to think that maybe I’m an exception and I am the one who won’t heal because of the way I handled things. In addition, this whole w/d situation is putting my IVF on the back burner which is like rubbing salt on an open wound. I’ve already waited so long to have a baby and now this happens and I’m forced to wait even longer.

 

 

[mdwstrx]

3 hours ago, mdwstrx said:

Believe me, I know how hard it is not to fear when wd = fear.  My thread is full of posts where fear was very apparent.  

 

Oh HF, sorry isn't required. My message wasn't scolding and if it came off that way, I'm sorry...

I intended to send a strong message about focusing on the positive.

I think this forum is meant to express fears and frustration in part ... but don't be fooled into thinking 

that it's helpful in the long run since it will likely be more harmful... 

 

Not to minimize the suffering at all, but stabilizing seems to me to be a lot like the proverbial boiling pot.  The more you focus on it,

the longer it takes to boil and the more frustrating it becomes. Distraction seems to be a key.

 

Also, please don't blame yourself.  None of us had any guidance on an exit strategy for these drugs until we found SA.

 

I'm very sorry about the IVF.  I understand a little since I had to jump through some hoops for my 2 sons.  If you have faith, remember that

with the God, the glass is always half full.  Try to find that side of it.  Consider what it might be in this and in the case of the IVF...

 

 

 

[HopeFloats]

13 minutes ago, mdwstrx said:

 

Oh HF, sorry isn't required. My message wasn't scolding and if it came off that way, I'm sorry...

I intended to send a strong message about focusing on the positive.

I think this forum is meant to express fears and frustration in part ... but don't be fooled into thinking 

that it's helpful in the long run since it will likely be more harmful... 

 

Not to minimize the suffering at all, but stabilizing seems to me to be a lot like the proverbial boiling pot.  The more you focus on it,

the longer it takes to boil and the more frustrating it becomes. Distraction seems to be a key.

 

Also, please don't blame yourself.  None of us had any guidance on an exit strategy for these drugs until we found SA.

 

I'm very sorry about the IVF.  I understand a little since I had to jump through some hoops for my 2 sons.  If you have faith, remember that

with the God, the glass is always half full.  Try to find that side of it.  Consider what it might be in this and in the case of the IVF...

 

 

 

 

No, you were not scolding at all. I was just feeling like everything I am saying is really on the negative side and I wanted you to know that I don’t mean anything negative towards you. You have been a great friend to me and are a blessing.  

 

At times, I do blame myself for not leaving well enough alone. I wasn’t in a bad place when I decided to start to taper. I just felt like a bump on a log and that there must be more joy in the world and I attributed it to the medication. If I had just let it be though, I wouldn’t be here. So, I do blame myself. I also think it’s a shame that our doctors don’t have more information about tapering properly. 

 

I am trying to distract myself by keeping busy but it’s hard. If I am not busy at work, then I am always outside going for a walk. I have been trying to run errands but that seems to exacerbate the physical anxiety. It feels like I have an elephant on my chest most of the day.  It’s so uncomfortable 🥵 

 

I am in awe of your positivity and how you always see the glass as half full. I wish o was that way. I am just too uncomfortable and scared right now to see it that way. 

 

[mdwstrx]

Good, I'm glad you weren't put off. 

 

There are no guarantees on the long term use of ADs.  I could go on but your thread isn't the place.

Suffice it to say that leaving well enough alone isn't necessarily a better strategy.

 

Rereading you past posts, it really seems  that you're in a wave.  It always amazed me of how a wave could plunge me into the 

doomsday mode despite rational indicators that I was getting better.  I think SA calls it neuro emotions.  I hope your window opens 

very soon.

 

PS...It's not hard to be positive this side of wd. 😉

[HopeFloats]

6 minutes ago, mdwstrx said:

Good, I'm glad you weren't put off. 

 

There are no guarantees on the long term use of ADs.  I could go on but your thread isn't the place.

Suffice it to say that leaving well enough alone isn't necessarily a better strategy.

 

Rereading you past posts, it really seems  that you're in a wave.  It always amazed me of how a wave could plunge me into the 

doomsday mode despite rational indicators that I was getting better.  I think SA calls it neuro emotions.  I hope your window opens 

very soon.

 

PS...It's not hard to be positive this side of wd. 😉

 

I think I am in a wave too. At least the physical anxiety is not above a 5 today. I remember days when I gauged it at a level 1 or 2. How I miss that!

 

I do worry about my sleep though. I know a lot of people- if not most- have insomnia going through this ordeal. But I feel like mine is worse - some people sleep for 5 or 6 hours. I seem to be waking up every one to two hours. I think I may get 3-4 hours of broken, very light sleep. I haven’t heard of anyone else dealing with this kind of insomnia. It is worrying me a great deal. 

 

I agree with you about the safety aspect of long term SSRI use. Maybe leaving well enough alone isn’t the answer.

[mdwstrx]

You have the factor of supplements that may account for the sleep issue.

Praying you get better sleep tonight.   🙏

[HopeFloats]

7 minutes ago, mdwstrx said:

You have the factor of supplements that may account for the sleep issue.

Praying you get better sleep tonight.   🙏

 

That’s true. It’s so hard for me to know how the supplements are affecting me. I was able to get off of the stimulating one called DLPA with ease.

 

Then I do a 10% reduction with the GABA Calm and days later I am in this wave. 

 

Ugh!

 

i know it’s getting late where you are. I do appreciate you keeping me busy today with conversation. I appreciate you so much and am so grateful for your compassion. 

[HopeFloats]

MD - 

 

dumb question but what’s the difference b/t acute and protracted withdrawals?

 

HF

[ChessieCat]

acute = severe

 

protracted = prolonged = lasting a long time

 

So it would be possible to have acute for a short period of time OR acute for a long period of time.

[HopeFloats]

2 minutes ago, ChessieCat said:

acute = severe

 

protracted = prolonged = lasting a long time

 

So it would be possible to have acute for a short period of time OR acute for a long period of time.

 

Hi Chessie,

 

thanks for reaching out.

 

i am wondering whether I am in acute or protracted w/d.

 

Did a bad taper over 2-3 years. Stopped Prozac in March 2019 and began taking amino acids. The major symptoms did not start until 4 - 4.5 months later. I now realize I had some symptoms all along.

 

My symptoms are certainly severe so I am guessing I am in acute w/d?

 

Thank you,

HF

[ChessieCat]

Does it really matter if it has a title?

 

Have you seen the recent discussion which starts here? 

 

 

[HopeFloats]

5 minutes ago, ChessieCat said:

Does it really matter if it has a title?

 

Have you seen the recent discussion which starts here? 

 

 

 

No, I guess the title doesn’t matter. 

 

Thanks for sending the link. I admit I am a little scared to read it. I worry about reading about other people suffering for an unusual length of time and that it will also happen to me.

[ChessieCat]

The discussion is about learning to accept that it is what it is at this time, and how to spend your time.   Acceptance

 

I think that the less we stress about how we are feeling means that the brain isn't busy dealing with that stress and has more ability to make the adjustments that it needs to make.  It's not about denying that we are suffering, the suffering is a fact, but learning non drug ways to cope with the discomfort so that you can stay calm and as stress free as possible.

 

Think of it like being stuck in traffic and/or getting stuck at traffic lights.  You can't make it go any faster.

 

Or this one:  Use the image of waiting in a queue, the line gradually gets shorter. When you are in a queue you can't make it move any quicker than it does. You have no control over it. All you can do is wait in the line. How you wait is what is going to make a difference. You can either be impatient and start getting irritable and think bad things and complain to the other people who might start swearing at you which makes you feel worse or you can try to be patient and calm and try and think of nice things and look at the things around you. It's going to take the same amount of time for you to get to the head of the queue but you can either make the experience of waiting pleasant or unpleasant.

[HopeFloats]

44 minutes ago, ChessieCat said:

The discussion is about learning to accept that it is what it is at this time, and how to spend your time.   Acceptance

 

I think that the less we stress about how we are feeling means that the brain isn't busy dealing with that stress and has more ability to make the adjustments that it needs to make.  It's not about denying that we are suffering, the suffering is a fact, but learning non drug ways to cope with the discomfort so that you can stay calm and as stress free as possible.

 

Think of it like being stuck in traffic and/or getting stuck at traffic lights.  You can't make it go any faster.

 

Or this one:  Use the image of waiting in a queue, the line gradually gets shorter. When you are in a queue you can't make it move any quicker than it does. You have no control over it. All you can do is wait in the line. How you wait is what is going to make a difference. You can either be impatient and start getting irritable and think bad things and complain to the other people who might start swearing at you which makes you feel worse or you can try to be patient and calm and try and think of nice things and look at the things around you. It's going to take the same amount of time for you to get to the head of the queue but you can either make the experience of waiting pleasant or unpleasant.

 

I love the analogies you use and I think when my w/d symptoms are at more of a tolerable level, that would work. 

 

What i I have trouble mastering is when the discomfort becomes too much - it’s like all I can think about and none of the non drug coping techniques seem to help. 

 

[brassmonkey]

Another thing that might be of help is the idea of "capitulation".  Here is a repost of one I made in September of last year on my thread "Tao of the Brassmonkey".  I was discussing some sleep exercises and general anxiety at the time but the concept has a lot of other applications.

 

 I like you sleep exercise and think it could be very helpful to a lot of people.  It reminds me of the concept of "capitulation" that I learned from DR. James Herriot.  Basically a patient can't get better until they give in to their malady. It's not giving up and it's not accepting but rather giving in and saying "give me your best shot then leave me alone".

 

There are some subtle semantic differences between ignore, surrender and capitulate that make it so they aren't interchangeable, but all three would work with helping to control anxiety.  It depends on the individuals personality and what they feel most comfortable with.  My personal favorite is "No you don't. I don't have time for this, go away", a couple of deep breaths, change the channel and anxiety/panic is averted.  This mainly works when an attack is starting, but isn't too effective on a prolonged wave of anxiety.

[Shep]

11 hours ago, mdwstrx said:

Rereading you past posts, it really seems  that you're in a wave. 

 

11 hours ago, HopeFloats said:

I think I am in a wave too. At least the physical anxiety is not above a 5 today. I remember days when I gauged it at a level 1 or 2. How I miss that!

 

I'm going to add onto what you and mdwstrx are discussing. 

 

I've re-read your last drug and symptoms journal and it's really hard to say if the reduced GABA is causing this, if it's the side effects of the Tryptophan, if it's a combination, or if it's as you and mdwstrx are discussing - a wave.

 

Question - do you feel you are "overall" improving? Are you able to do a bit more now than say, a month ago? Can you tell if the battle fatigue from being sick so long is at play? It can be very hard to tell battle fatigue from the drug-induced fatigue, but what is your gut reaction? 

[HopeFloats]

2 hours ago, Shep said:

 

 

I'm going to add onto what you and mdwstrx are discussing. 

 

I've re-read your last drug and symptoms journal and it's really hard to say if the reduced GABA is causing this, if it's the side effects of the Tryptophan, if it's a combination, or if it's as you and mdwstrx are discussing - a wave.

 

Question - do you feel you are "overall" improving? Are you able to do a bit more now than say, a month ago? Can you tell if the battle fatigue from being sick so long is at play? It can be very hard to tell battle fatigue from the drug-induced fatigue, but what is your gut reaction? 

 

It is weird, I don't have a lot of fatigue because I am in such a constant state of anxiety and being wide awake.  Yes, there are times during the day, I start to feel sleepy, but I wouldn't describe it as fatigue.

 

Overall, I feel I have been declining since September 4th...the anxiety has heightened to where I am pretty much at a level 4 or 5 all day....last night my anxiety was probably a 6 while trying to sleep.

 

Last night, I had one of the worst nights sleep ever.  I maybe got 2 hours, 2.5 tops.  And it was interrupted the entire time.  Weird thing is I remember 2 dreams I had.  I don't recall remembering any dreams previously during w/d.  What is really weird is I had a dream about getting a bad charlie horse while I was out shopping.  The pain felt so real during my dream but it did not wake me up.  Normally, when I get a charlie horse in the middle of the night, I wake up and jump the heck out of bed.  Then when I got up this morning and started walking around, I could feel this weird sensation in my left foot - it was like there was a charlie horse there.

 

I want to believe that its the combination of GABA and Trytophan not getting along with the reinstatement of the 1.25 mg of Prozac that is causing this.  But I just don't know.  Could it be a delayed response from getting off the DLPA?  I seemed to get off of that with ease though.  Which makes me think that I should be able to get off the other aminos with ease.  

 

GABA was one of the supplements I remember taking and thinking, this doesn't do a thing for me - not even sure why I take it.  I never noticed much of a difference on it.  Yes sometimes, it would make me a little drousy but that's about it.  It is hard for me to believe that this reduction is causing this nightmare.

 

I can't go on like this.  It is too uncomfortable. 

[HopeFloats]

9/9:

1:24am - woke up, feeling anxious

2am - was not able to fall back to sleep after waking at 1:24am.

           got up to go lie on couch, did not turn on tv or anything

3:17am - must have fallen asleep on the couch, woke up

                anxiety is a 4 or 5

4:19am - woke up again

4:34am - went back to my bed to try and sleep

                 not sure if I slept though

                think I mainly tossed and turned until my alarm went off at 6:15am

6:15am - got up

6:30am - took 1.25 mg Prozac

                 anxiety is a 3 or 4

7:30am - on my way to work, felt like my blood sugar might be off, felt sick in the head, started eating some fruit in the car

8am - trying to eat some of my salad

*****I am down 20 pounds and can't lose much more weight*****

          anxiety is at a 3.5 or 4

8:42am - feeling down, yesterday was horrendous for me

                 feeling tired

                 have nibbled on salad and cherries but still feel that weird feeling in head

9am - went on a walk

           after walk, anxiety is at least a 4

10:30am - went on another walk

11am  - anxiety seems lower now except for I am getting weird thumps in the middle of my chest - are these heart palpitations?

12noon - ran some errands at lunch.  Felt ok, anxiety was maybe a 4, but towards the end, I felt the anxiety increasing again.  Maybe I was feeling rushed?  

4:30pm - took one last walk at work' 

                got back to my desk and would rate anxiety a 4 or even a 5, I feel my heart rate is elevated, mild tightness in chest, on edge feeling, shaky hands

5pm - leaving work

6pm - fed the dogs, watered the flowers, feel in a better mood, anxiety is still a 4, anything I do increases the anxiety though.  Carrying the water can around and lifting it is like a lot of exercise for me or something and it elevates my anxiety

6:10pm - anxiety is a 5, feeling heart palpitations now

7pm - today is better than yesterday but it is not as good as I have had

          anxiety has just been soooooo steady at a 4/5 too much of the day

7:46pm - think I am naturally starting to get a little sleepy

                anxiety is 3.5

7:58pm - feeling more tired

8pm - took 400 mg Magnesium and 25 mg Irong

8:05pm - went into the spa thinking it would be soothing - in there for 30 minutes

                after I got out, I noticed my anxiety increased, heart rate definitely elevated 

8:49pm - my heart rate is like 80 bpm and I am just sitting on the couch trying to relax after having been in the spa

9pm - took reduced 22.5 ml GABA Calm

9:06 pm - I am not very tired, I am usually more tired by now

                 could it be the spa?

9:30pm - took 1000 mg Tryptophan

                 I don't feel very tired, I don't think its the GABA b/c I feel the same as I did before I took the GABA.  

10pm - not tired tonight

              something is really off

              took 1.05 mg time released Melatonin

              doesn't seem like the GABA or Tryptophan did anything for me

10:07pm - have urge to move around, like I can't get comfortable

10:11pm - I guess I feel calmer except I feel like electricity is searing through my legs

                     have the on edge feeling

                    I feel calmer in my chest but the rest of my body feels like a battery is being charged

                   so far Melatonin has made me a little sleepy but not that much

                     very worried about the sleep I am going to get tonight

10:30p - began to feel tired, going to bed

9/10:

12:05pm - woke up

1:27am - woke up feeling anxious

2:00am - went out to my couch

                tossing and turning, anxiety is still there

3am - I guess I fell asleep, just looked at clock at 3am

           feel too wide awake, going to get up and walk around my house

3:10am - anxiety is a 5, it feels like I am charged, amped up and scared half to death

                watched some tv

3:48am - turned tv off, going to try and get some sleep

5am - woke up, anxiety is back

6:15am - got up

6:30am - took 1.25 mg Prozac

                anxiety is a 5 - feel amped up and on edge 

                it is so much more noticeable when I am trying to sleep

 

***Weird leg cramp dream that felt so real yet didn't wake me.  This morning, it feels like I had a charlie horse in the middle of the night.  How in the world can I have the hardest time sleeping, yet something as painful as a charlie horse wouldn't wake me up?

****Remember one other dream about being in college and someone was looking for a room to rent

 

                

 

[HopeFloats]

46 minutes ago, HopeFloats said:

 

It is weird, I don't have a lot of fatigue because I am in such a constant state of anxiety and being wide awake.  Yes, there are times during the day, I start to feel sleepy, but I wouldn't describe it as fatigue.

 

Overall, I feel I have been declining since September 4th...the anxiety has heightened to where I am pretty much at a level 4 or 5 all day....last night my anxiety was probably a 6 while trying to sleep.

 

Last night, I had one of the worst nights sleep ever.  I maybe got 2 hours, 2.5 tops.  And it was interrupted the entire time.  Weird thing is I remember 2 dreams I had.  I don't recall remembering any dreams previously during w/d.  What is really weird is I had a dream about getting a bad charlie horse while I was out shopping.  The pain felt so real during my dream but it did not wake me up.  Normally, when I get a charlie horse in the middle of the night, I wake up and jump the heck out of bed.  Then when I got up this morning and started walking around, I could feel this weird sensation in my left foot - it was like there was a charlie horse there.

 

I want to believe that its the combination of GABA and Trytophan not getting along with the reinstatement of the 1.25 mg of Prozac that is causing this.  But I just don't know.  Could it be a delayed response from getting off the DLPA?  I seemed to get off of that with ease though.  Which makes me think that I should be able to get off the other aminos with ease.  

 

GABA was one of the supplements I remember taking and thinking, this doesn't do a thing for me - not even sure why I take it.  I never noticed much of a difference on it.  Yes sometimes, it would make me a little drousy but that's about it.  It is hard for me to believe that this reduction is causing this nightmare.

 

I can't go on like this.  It is too uncomfortable. 

 

After thinking about it further, my gut is now telling me it’s too much serotonin. But I really don’t know. What I know is that it feels like my body is on speed or something - practically all day and night. 

[HopeFloats]

27 minutes ago, HopeFloats said:

 

After thinking about it further, my gut is now telling me it’s too much serotonin. But I really don’t know. What I know is that it feels like my body is on speed or something - practically all day and night. 

 

One thing i did add was I started applying a topical cream for a small rash - the size of a nickel on my chest - I started this on September 1st. It’s arhletes foot cream. 

[HopeFloats]

8 hours ago, brassmonkey said:

Another thing that might be of help is the idea of "capitulation".  Here is a repost of one I made in September of last year on my thread "Tao of the Brassmonkey".  I was discussing some sleep exercises and general anxiety at the time but the concept has a lot of other applications.

 

 I like you sleep exercise and think it could be very helpful to a lot of people.  It reminds me of the concept of "capitulation" that I learned from DR. James Herriot.  Basically a patient can't get better until they give in to their malady. It's not giving up and it's not accepting but rather giving in and saying "give me your best shot then leave me alone".

 

There are some subtle semantic differences between ignore, surrender and capitulate that make it so they aren't interchangeable, but all three would work with helping to control anxiety.  It depends on the individuals personality and what they feel most comfortable with.  My personal favorite is "No you don't. I don't have time for this, go away", a couple of deep breaths, change the channel and anxiety/panic is averted.  This mainly works when an attack is starting, but isn't too effective on a prolonged wave of anxiety.

 

Hi Brass Monkey - 

 

I appreciate you reaching out to me. I don’t believe we have chatted before. 

 

Unfortunately, I feel like I am on speed practically 24/7. I had one of the worst nights sleep last night - maybe 2 or 3 hours- all broken up along with level 5 or 6 anxiety (out of ten). Maybe it was higher.

 

I have been in a prolonged  wave of anxiety for several days now. 

 

I am am so scared that I have permanently damaged myself and I am in a permanent state of hyper sensitivity.

 

HF

[brassmonkey]

Anxiety waves can be really brutal to go through, I've had enough of them to know.  Something to remember is that the anxiety is drug induced and not being provided by your mind.  This can make it a little easier to "ignore" it and try to go on with life.  A lot of distraction where you have to concentrate on something else really helps, as you concentrate the anxiety tends to fade into the background and give you a little relief.

[HopeFloats]

28 minutes ago, brassmonkey said:

Anxiety waves can be really brutal to go through, I've had enough of them to know.  Something to remember is that the anxiety is drug induced and not being provided by your mind.  This can make it a little easier to "ignore" it and try to go on with life.  A lot of distraction where you have to concentrate on something else really helps, as you concentrate the anxiety tends to fade into the background and give you a little relief.

 

Do you know people who have had strong anxiety- all day, everyday as well as no appetite and terrible insomnia (like maybe 3 hours per night all interrupted sleep) who have gone on to heal in a decent amount of time?

 

I am worried that I am permanently like this.

 

Sorry for being so needy but it’s been a rough few days for me. I’m also only 6 weeks into reinstatement. I worry I reinstated too late (4.5 months) after a bad 3 year taper.

 

I appreciate you so thank you.

 

HF

[brassmonkey]

Me. 

 

Throughout my taper I would have very bad waves of anxiety that would last for weeks at a time 24/7.  They would spring up every three or four months, last two to three weeks and then fade.  While they were happening there was little else I could think of, so I had to distract by concentrating on my work.  I was employed my entire taper as a Research and Development Engineer and hat to perform to keep my job.  That's how I learned that life is possible even if your anxiety is off the chart.  All the anxiety is a "gut feeling" and does nothing more than make a person very uncomfortable.  The stiff limbs, the dread, and such can all be worked through with concentration and modifications to how you work/live. If ones concentration is high then the anxiety will fade somewhat in to the background for a time.  It takes a lot of energy to do and can be quite exhausting.  After a while I learned the patterns that lead up to the waves and was able to see them coming and prepare myself.  There is always an end point, even if you can't see it, and just knowing that made things easier.  It got to the point I could say "darn it, here's that anxiety again, oh well it will be gone in a few weeks", and moved on as best as I could.

[HopeFloats]

4 minutes ago, brassmonkey said:

Me. 

 

Throughout my taper I would have very bad waves of anxiety that would last for weeks at a time 24/7.  They would spring up every three or four months, last two to three weeks and then fade.  While they were happening there was little else I could think of, so I had to distract by concentrating on my work.  I was employed my entire taper as a Research and Development Engineer and hat to perform to keep my job.  That's how I learned that life is possible even if your anxiety is off the chart.  All the anxiety is a "gut feeling" and does nothing more than make a person very uncomfortable.  The stiff limbs, the dread, and such can all be worked through with concentration and modifications to how you work/live. If ones concentration is high then the anxiety will fade somewhat in to the background for a time.  It takes a lot of energy to do and can be quite exhausting.  After a while I learned the patterns that lead up to the waves and was able to see them coming and prepare myself.  There is always an end point, even if you can't see it, and just knowing that made things easier.  It got to the point I could say "darn it, here's that anxiety again, oh well it will be gone in a few weeks", and moved on as best as I could.

 

While you were going through w/d, would you consider yourself “hyper sensitive”? 

 

Did you also have insomnia? I only sleep like 3, maybe 4, hours on a good night.

 

I am petrified that I am too hyper sensitive and will take years to heal.

 

Can hyper sensitive people stabilize after 3-6 months? Is that possible?

[Shep]

5 hours ago, HopeFloats said:

 

One thing i did add was I started applying a topical cream for a small rash - the size of a nickel on my chest - I started this on September 1st. It’s arhletes foot cream. 

 

Did this topical cream have any hydrocortisone in it or any ingredient that might cause a reaction? Some topical creams have steroids in them, so please check the ingredients to see if that may provide an explanation. 

 

Are you still using it? 

[HopeFloats]

2 minutes ago, Shep said:

 

Did this topical cream have any hydrocortisone in it or any ingredient that might cause a reaction? Some topical creams have steroids in them, so please check the ingredients to see if that may provide an explanation. 

 

Are you still using it? 

The active ingredient is Terbinafine. I apply it twice daily until the rash is gone and then I am suppose to keep applying it for one week even after the rash is gone. Yes, I have been using it since Sept 1st.  I don’t have the tube on me though.