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Prebiotics


Petunia
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Based on this study posted in the journals section:

Schmidt, 2014 Prebiotic intake reduces the waking cortisol response and alters emotional bias in healthy volunteers

I decided to try Bimuno.

 

So far I've been taking it for a month.  For the first few days it seemed like it was reducing the intensity of my cortisol mornings.  But then I went into a wave of increased symptoms generally, so I no longer thought it was helping.

 

But now, after a month of taking it, I do seem to be having smoother wake ups and in general, I'm starting to feel better earlier in the day.

 

For most of the month I was taking a whole packet, but now I'm taking half a packet each morning.  I'm also now taking a probiotic regularly, which I haven't been throughout most of the month since I started the Bimuno.

 

I'm wondering if perhaps there may be more benefit from taking the combination of both prebiotic and probiotic.

 

I'm still not sure if this is actually helping, or if I'm in a window or if this is recovery which was going to happen anyway.  But I will keep taking it and keep updating my experience.

 

If anyone else has tried this, or is trying it, please would you share your experience here.

I'm not a doctor.  My comments are not medical advise. These are my opinions based on my own experience and what I've learned. Please discuss your situation with a medical practitioner who has knowledge of tapering and withdrawal...if you are lucky enough to find one.

My Introduction Thread

Full Drug and Withdrawal History

Brief Summary

Several SSRIs for 13 years starting 1997 (for mild to moderate partly situational anxiety) Xanax PRN ~ Various other drugs over the years for side effects

2 month 'taper' off Lexapro 2010

Short acute withdrawal, followed by 2 -3 months of improvement then delayed protracted withdrawal

DX ADHD followed by several years of stimulants and other drugs trying to manage increasing symptoms

Failed reinstatement of Lexapro and trial of Prozac (became suicidal)

May 2013 Found SA, learned about withdrawal, stopped taking drugs...healing begins.

Protracted withdrawal, with a very sensitized nervous system, slowly recovering as time passes

Supplements which have helped: Vitamin C, Magnesium, Taurine

Bad reactions: Many supplements but mostly fish oil and Vitamin D

June 2016 - Started daily juicing, mostly vegetables and lots of greens.

Aug 2016 - Oct 2016 Best window ever, felt almost completely recovered

Oct 2016 -Symptoms returned - bad days and less bad days.

April 2018 - No windows, but significant improvement, it feels like permanent full recovery is close.

VIDEO: Where did the chemical imbalance theory come from?



VIDEO: How are psychiatric diagnoses made?



VIDEO: Why do psychiatric drugs have withdrawal syndromes?



VIDEO: Can psychiatric drugs cause long-lasting negative effects?

VIDEO: Dr. Claire Weekes

 

 

 

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Ugh! I had just read something about there being a benefit of combining the pre and pro biotics and thought I'd bookmarked it so I could post it here... I'll look for it again.

1988-2012: Prozac @ 60mg to treat an eating disorder. Several unsuccessful attempts to discontinue.Fall 2012: Failed attempt to discontinue then -> 40mg Prozac and added 150mg Wellbutrin. Late summer 2013:Began slower Prozac taper.Spring 2014:Got to 10mg Prozac, 75mg of Wellbutrin -April 2014: 9mg Prozac & 37.5mg Wellbutrin 2x/day -> 9mg Prozac & 25 mg Wellbutrin 2x/day->9mg Prozac 1x/day & ~8mg Wellbutrin 2x/day -> 8.1mg Prozac, 0 WellbutrinSept '14: 8.1mg Prozac -> crashed hardOct '14: 10mg ProzacNov '14: 20mg -> 30mgDec '14: 30mg, Feb 10: 27mg. Mar 7: 25mg Mar 21, 2015: 20mg. May 21, 2016: 20mg and holding strong. Taper restarted April 2021 to 18mg, July 2021 to 16mg, currently 15mg. 

 

My experience: http://rxisk.org/antidepressant-withdrawal-a-prozac-story/

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  • 1 year later...

has anyone heard or tried B_GOS it's a prebiotic that you actually sprinkle on you food , the reviews I have read look to be very good , it claims to have good results for people with IBS , but it also states that it reduces cortisol levels , with high results

2001 to jan 2015 Effexor 150 mg 

jan 2015 15 mg mirtazapine 20 mg quetiapine 

feb 2015 quetiapine stopped 

feb 2015 30 mg of citalopram added 

feb 2015 mirtazapine increased to 30 mg 

july 2015 citalopram stopped 

sept 2015 200mg of pregabalin 

jan 2017 mirtazapine stopped

jan 2017 20 mg fluoxetine

march 2017 all meds stopped 

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Hi Terry,

Yes, I tried it a while back and started a topic here to document my experiment. I've also written a little about it in my own intro thread starting from HERE

 

A few others tried it too around the same time.

 

After what I think was probably a bit of a placebo effect, I came to the conclusion it wasn't doing anything either way.

 

Here is the link to the existing topic, if you decide to try it, please post about your experience there: 

Prebiotics: Bimuno (B-GOS) - Surviving Antidepressants

I will merge this topic to that one when you have seen the link  * topics merged

Edited by Petunia
updated

I'm not a doctor.  My comments are not medical advise. These are my opinions based on my own experience and what I've learned. Please discuss your situation with a medical practitioner who has knowledge of tapering and withdrawal...if you are lucky enough to find one.

My Introduction Thread

Full Drug and Withdrawal History

Brief Summary

Several SSRIs for 13 years starting 1997 (for mild to moderate partly situational anxiety) Xanax PRN ~ Various other drugs over the years for side effects

2 month 'taper' off Lexapro 2010

Short acute withdrawal, followed by 2 -3 months of improvement then delayed protracted withdrawal

DX ADHD followed by several years of stimulants and other drugs trying to manage increasing symptoms

Failed reinstatement of Lexapro and trial of Prozac (became suicidal)

May 2013 Found SA, learned about withdrawal, stopped taking drugs...healing begins.

Protracted withdrawal, with a very sensitized nervous system, slowly recovering as time passes

Supplements which have helped: Vitamin C, Magnesium, Taurine

Bad reactions: Many supplements but mostly fish oil and Vitamin D

June 2016 - Started daily juicing, mostly vegetables and lots of greens.

Aug 2016 - Oct 2016 Best window ever, felt almost completely recovered

Oct 2016 -Symptoms returned - bad days and less bad days.

April 2018 - No windows, but significant improvement, it feels like permanent full recovery is close.

VIDEO: Where did the chemical imbalance theory come from?



VIDEO: How are psychiatric diagnoses made?



VIDEO: Why do psychiatric drugs have withdrawal syndromes?



VIDEO: Can psychiatric drugs cause long-lasting negative effects?

VIDEO: Dr. Claire Weekes

 

 

 

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  • 3 years later...

the more i read the more i realize all of my skin issues, mental issues, etc....are coming from my gut, i can actually hear it all day trying to recover from years of psych meds, and every time it hurts , i start getting other symptoms elsewhere

 

also the more i read the more i can see that the idea that probiotics need to be fed in order to grow, and how good bacteria effects neurotransmission and can even help grow receptors

 

I've been throwing probiotics down my throat for years, nothing helped, ive taken every supplement in the book......but now im reading that prebiotic fiber is a type of soluble fiber that ferments in the gut and feed the good bacteria and is the fertilizer in a sense, necessary for it to grow

 

i just got some Inulin powder in the mail, and am starting to eat a lot more prebiotic fiber with my lunch and dinner , and lets see how it goes

 

has anyone had any success with healing their gut in this way? can prebiotics help speed up down regulated receptors to start growing again? does good bacteria help in that process? 

 

im learning about this one day at a time, desperate for answers 

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I have not heard of prebiotics helping receptors grow again but having a healthy, diverse microbiome is essential for mental and physical health ! One of my favorite books ever is Eat Dirt by Dr. Josh Axe , it has a ton of info pertaining to this.

 

On the other hand, if you have a condition like histamine intolerance or SIBO, taking probiotics can make things worse instead of better, so it's a double edged sword. From what i've learned, healthy people with uncompromised microbiomes don't need to be taking probiotics. As long as you eat a diverse, healthy diet and haven't obliterated your gut with a ton of antibiotics, NSAIDs, or other medications that mess with your gut bacteria you should be doing okay on your own. 

 

In my opinion, I think the reason a lot of people have stomach issues when they go off antidepressants is the changes in serotonin production in the gut. I have dealt with a lot of pain, cramping, bloat and constipation in withdrawal which resulted in SIBO as my motility slowed down. Serotonin plays a big role in motility and digestion, and since 90% of serotonin is made in the gut, it makes sense in my mind.

2009-2018: 15mg Celexa

June 2018-January 2019: .5mg-1mg Ativan

2010-June 2021: Marvelon (Birth Control) 

September 2018-December 2021: Prozac reinstated 1mg (.25ml) April 21st 2019 , updosed to .32ml June 19, 2019 & started taper in October 2019.

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6 hours ago, KMart95 said:

I have not heard of prebiotics helping receptors grow again but having a healthy, diverse microbiome is essential for mental and physical health ! One of my favorite books ever is Eat Dirt by Dr. Josh Axe , it has a ton of info pertaining to this.

 

On the other hand, if you have a condition like histamine intolerance or SIBO, taking probiotics can make things worse instead of better, so it's a double edged sword. From what i've learned, healthy people with uncompromised microbiomes don't need to be taking probiotics. As long as you eat a diverse, healthy diet and haven't obliterated your gut with a ton of antibiotics, NSAIDs, or other medications that mess with your gut bacteria you should be doing okay on your own. 

 

In my opinion, I think the reason a lot of people have stomach issues when they go off antidepressants is the changes in serotonin production in the gut. I have dealt with a lot of pain, cramping, bloat and constipation in withdrawal which resulted in SIBO as my motility slowed down. Serotonin plays a big role in motility and digestion, and since 90% of serotonin is made in the gut, it makes sense in my mind.

yeah the serotonin theory makes more since considering it happened as soon as i took it out of my body 

 

i know dr axe, i read his stuff quite a lot 

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On 8/10/2019 at 2:27 PM, KMart95 said:

I have not heard of prebiotics helping receptors grow again but having a healthy, diverse microbiome is essential for mental and physical health ! One of my favorite books ever is Eat Dirt by Dr. Josh Axe , it has a ton of info pertaining to this.

 

On the other hand, if you have a condition like histamine intolerance or SIBO, taking probiotics can make things worse instead of better, so it's a double edged sword. From what i've learned, healthy people with uncompromised microbiomes don't need to be taking probiotics. As long as you eat a diverse, healthy diet and haven't obliterated your gut with a ton of antibiotics, NSAIDs, or other medications that mess with your gut bacteria you should be doing okay on your own. 

 

In my opinion, I think the reason a lot of people have stomach issues when they go off antidepressants is the changes in serotonin production in the gut. I have dealt with a lot of pain, cramping, bloat and constipation in withdrawal which resulted in SIBO as my motility slowed down. Serotonin plays a big role in motility and digestion, and since 90% of serotonin is made in the gut, it makes sense in my mind.

By the way, since you own that specific book, would you be able to tell me what the five steps are that he takes to curing leaky gut? Because I can’t seem to find that info online without having to buy the book. Would be incredibly helpful if you could tell me, if you end up reading this. Thanks 🙂 

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12 hours ago, Ryguy said:

By the way, since you own that specific book, would you be able to tell me what the five steps are that he takes to curing leaky gut? Because I can’t seem to find that info online without having to buy the book. Would be incredibly helpful if you could tell me, if you end up reading this. Thanks 🙂 

It's kind of hard to explain because the book is divided into different sections. There's a different protocol for what he calls Candida Gut, Stressed Gut, Immune Gut, Gastric Gut & Toxic Gut. 

 

But chapter 10, titled "The Eat Dirt Program" has 5 general steps. 

 

1. Remove wheat & other grains, commercial cows milk, hydrogenated oils, GMO foods, & toxic chemicals.

 

2. Reseed with a soil-based probiotic. Get microexposure to dirt by spending time walking outside barefoot, digging in garden, swimming in oceans and lakes, etc. Buy produce at your local farmers market. 1 tsbp raw honey per day. Medicinal mushrooms like shiitake and green algae (spirulina).

 

3. Restore the gut by eating organic whenever possible, bone broth, raw cultured dairy, fermented vegetables, fermented vegetables, wild-caught salmon, sprouted seeds, coconut products and high fiber foods.

 

4. Release by reducing emotional & mental stress. Do something active. Drink chamomile tea. Read something uplifting. Essentials oils. Magnesium supplement. Listen to music. Spend time in nature.

 

5. Reseal with a high quality probiotic, digestive enzymes, l-glutamine, licorice root, collagen, frankincense (or boswellia powder) and other optional supplements include slippery elm, aloe vera juice, colostrum powder and MSM.

 

Other notes : test for SIBO, IgG & IgE allergy testing, and stool test. Avoid prescription medications especially antibiotics & NSAIDS. 

 

He also talks in the beginning how this protocol supposedly put his mother's recurring cancer in remission. Whether that's the case, I don't know, but i've done a lot of these things myself and my guts were doing very well until I had to take antibiotics again. L-glutamine 5g day gave me the most benefit. One thing he doesn't mention that should be mentioned is that if you overdo it with a ton of fermented foods and an excessive amount of probiotics there's a good chance you'll get histamine intolerance. This is what happened to me, so everything in moderation !

2009-2018: 15mg Celexa

June 2018-January 2019: .5mg-1mg Ativan

2010-June 2021: Marvelon (Birth Control) 

September 2018-December 2021: Prozac reinstated 1mg (.25ml) April 21st 2019 , updosed to .32ml June 19, 2019 & started taper in October 2019.

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  • Mentor

I have been on a very similar diet for almost 300 days. My autoimmune disease is reversing and I was able to come off of my AD. I 100% know I would of not been able to do this if I did not change my microbiome in my gut. 

I follow The Plant Paradox lifestyle by Dr.Gundry. This lifestyle has given me my life back and I feel better than I have ever felt in my life. It has enabled me to finally get off of this medication and truly live my life. Nutrition is the key to health!!!!! 

2008 to 2019  - 20 mg Paroxetine

Attempted 2 CT's around the 5-6 year mark. Were absolutely terrible and reinstated. Was never explained by the doctor the seriousness of the short half life of this drug. 

2017 - Attempted a tapered discontinuation of this drug and reinstated after being unsuccessful.

2019 - Feb. 12 - After a three month taper I am off of paroxetine. The 3 months were terrible, awful withdrawal feelings. I followed the doctors guidelines for the reduction of this drug and now know it was way too fast. 
2019 - Oct. 12 - 8 months off paroxetine. 75% improvement since coming off the drug. Definitely have had tons of challenges along the way. Let’s go!!!! 

2021 - Feb. 12 - 24 months off paroxetine. I have minor challenges now. Tinnitus/Headaches are still around but are reduced by a massive amount. 

 

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I've been thinking about getting my microbe analysed via poop test. That would tell you what microbes are under/ over grown. Then you can focus on balancing it with the correct bacteria.

In Jan 2011 started Lexapro 10 mg after 10 minutes consultation with doctor telling him I felt anxious in confined spaces and had an anxiety attack on plane and underground. Remained on that dosage until Sept 2014. Tapered following a doctor's schedule on 2.5 mg drops every three weeks. Once stopped I developed severe withdrawals. Three weeks of Prozac beginning of Oct 2014 but had adverse reaction and stopped CT. Protracted withdrawals since. Supp now - magnesium, fish oil, turmeric, vit D, melatonin (but recently it's made me depressed), castus vitex capsule with ginger, Withania, Vit E, zinc, Lutein for PMS.
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  • ChessieCat changed the title to Prebiotics
  • 3 weeks later...
On 8/18/2019 at 1:01 PM, KMart95 said:

It's kind of hard to explain because the book is divided into different sections. There's a different protocol for what he calls Candida Gut, Stressed Gut, Immune Gut, Gastric Gut & Toxic Gut. 

 

But chapter 10, titled "The Eat Dirt Program" has 5 general steps. 

 

1. Remove wheat & other grains, commercial cows milk, hydrogenated oils, GMO foods, & toxic chemicals.

 

2. Reseed with a soil-based probiotic. Get microexposure to dirt by spending time walking outside barefoot, digging in garden, swimming in oceans and lakes, etc. Buy produce at your local farmers market. 1 tsbp raw honey per day. Medicinal mushrooms like shiitake and green algae (spirulina).

 

3. Restore the gut by eating organic whenever possible, bone broth, raw cultured dairy, fermented vegetables, fermented vegetables, wild-caught salmon, sprouted seeds, coconut products and high fiber foods.

 

4. Release by reducing emotional & mental stress. Do something active. Drink chamomile tea. Read something uplifting. Essentials oils. Magnesium supplement. Listen to music. Spend time in nature.

 

5. Reseal with a high quality probiotic, digestive enzymes, l-glutamine, licorice root, collagen, frankincense (or boswellia powder) and other optional supplements include slippery elm, aloe vera juice, colostrum powder and MSM.

 

Other notes : test for SIBO, IgG & IgE allergy testing, and stool test. Avoid prescription medications especially antibiotics & NSAIDS. 

 

He also talks in the beginning how this protocol supposedly put his mother's recurring cancer in remission. Whether that's the case, I don't know, but i've done a lot of these things myself and my guts were doing very well until I had to take antibiotics again. L-glutamine 5g day gave me the most benefit. One thing he doesn't mention that should be mentioned is that if you overdo it with a ton of fermented foods and an excessive amount of probiotics there's a good chance you'll get histamine intolerance. This is what happened to me, so everything in moderation !

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On 8/19/2019 at 8:01 AM, KMart95 said:

It's kind of hard to explain because the book is divided into different sections. There's a different protocol for what he calls Candida Gut, Stressed Gut, Immune Gut, Gastric Gut & Toxic Gut. 

 

But chapter 10, titled "The Eat Dirt Program" has 5 general steps. 

 

1. Remove wheat & other grains, commercial cows milk, hydrogenated oils, GMO foods, & toxic chemicals.

 

2. Reseed with a soil-based probiotic. Get microexposure to dirt by spending time walking outside barefoot, digging in garden, swimming in oceans and lakes, etc. Buy produce at your local farmers market. 1 tsbp raw honey per day. Medicinal mushrooms like shiitake and green algae (spirulina).

 

3. Restore the gut by eating organic whenever possible, bone broth, raw cultured dairy, fermented vegetables, fermented vegetables, wild-caught salmon, sprouted seeds, coconut products and high fiber foods.

 

4. Release by reducing emotional & mental stress. Do something active. Drink chamomile tea. Read something uplifting. Essentials oils. Magnesium supplement. Listen to music. Spend time in nature.

 

5. Reseal with a high quality probiotic, digestive enzymes, l-glutamine, licorice root, collagen, frankincense (or boswellia powder) and other optional supplements include slippery elm, aloe vera juice, colostrum powder and MSM.

 

Other notes : test for SIBO, IgG & IgE allergy testing, and stool test. Avoid prescription medications especially antibiotics & NSAIDS. 

 

He also talks in the beginning how this protocol supposedly put his mother's recurring cancer in remission. Whether that's the case, I don't know, but i've done a lot of these things myself and my guts were doing very well until I had to take antibiotics again. L-glutamine 5g day gave me the most benefit. One thing he doesn't mention that should be mentioned is that if you overdo it with a ton of fermented foods and an excessive amount of probiotics there's a good chance you'll get histamine intolerance. This is what happened to me, so everything in moderation !

Can you recommend a soil based probiotic? 

In Jan 2011 started Lexapro 10 mg after 10 minutes consultation with doctor telling him I felt anxious in confined spaces and had an anxiety attack on plane and underground. Remained on that dosage until Sept 2014. Tapered following a doctor's schedule on 2.5 mg drops every three weeks. Once stopped I developed severe withdrawals. Three weeks of Prozac beginning of Oct 2014 but had adverse reaction and stopped CT. Protracted withdrawals since. Supp now - magnesium, fish oil, turmeric, vit D, melatonin (but recently it's made me depressed), castus vitex capsule with ginger, Withania, Vit E, zinc, Lutein for PMS.
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22 hours ago, DaisyBell said:

Can you recommend a soil based probiotic? 

I don't use one. I love this book but personally I would never use a soil based probiotic. Soil based organisms are not a natural part of the digestive tract and i've done some reading that shows they can compete with the gut bacteria you already have. I think it's best to take a multistrain probiotic with human strains and spend time getting dirty whatever way you can ! But if you do want to take one i've heard good things about Prescript Assist.

2009-2018: 15mg Celexa

June 2018-January 2019: .5mg-1mg Ativan

2010-June 2021: Marvelon (Birth Control) 

September 2018-December 2021: Prozac reinstated 1mg (.25ml) April 21st 2019 , updosed to .32ml June 19, 2019 & started taper in October 2019.

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