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Worthy

Worthy: tapering advice wanted

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Altostrata

No, 0.9mg Zyprexa is still 20% of your original dose. How are you feeling as you reduce Zyprexa?

 

 

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Worthy

Thanks for your reply.  I am feeling very anxious and often sui dal.  I do have the odd window.  The thought of being on all these drugd and how i will ever get off them is  what scares me the most.  I get shakes and shivers as well.  

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Altostrata

If I were you, I'd stop tapering Zyprexa now and move the Cymbalta earlier by an hour each day until you're taking it before noon.

 

It doesn't make any sense that you're taking those 4 drugs at night.

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Worthy

Sorry for, the misunderstanding it seems you are looking at an old post.  I stopped taking the cymbalta at night a long while,ago on your advice.  I take the zyprexa , mirtazapine and Ativan at night but take the cymbalta at 7 am each morning.  

Please see the post I wrote a few months ago,saying I had changed the cymbalta to,taking it in the morning 

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Worthy

Also on your advice I started taking the Ativan twice a day. .5 mg at night and .5 mg during the day.  This has helped a biit

 

So just to confirm my dose

zyprexa, mirtazapine and .5Ativan at 10pm

cymbalta at 7 am

.5 Ativan 10am

 

Tapering zyprexa at 3% every 2 weeks 

 

i did do a very gradual change of the cymbalta dose from night to morning as recommended by you.  

 

 

 

 

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Erell
Posted (edited)
59 minutes ago, Worthy said:

Sorry for, the misunderstanding it seems you are looking at an old post.  I stopped taking the cymbalta at night a long while,ago

Could you please update your signature ?

 

Your signature says

"23mg cymbalta out of 60 at night "

Edited by Erell

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Worthy

Please let me know how to update my signature.  

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Worthy

I thought i had already updated my signature in January.  Sorry but i find this site very confusing.  

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Worthy
2 hours ago, Worthy said:

I thought i had already updated my signature in January.  Sorry but i find this site very confusing.  

 

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Worthy

Sorry me again but really trying to get this right.  I really need help getting off these drugs.  I don’t know how to,change my signature and really would, like to  do this properly as seems I did it wrong the first time.  Can I just put on here what I am,currently taking and will that be my signature. 

 

30th June

zyprexa. .85 mg 10pm. Down from 5 m

mirtazapine 3.2 mg 10pm. Down from 15

ativan .5 mg 10pm

 

cymbalta 13.5 mg 7am.  Down from 60mg

 

i am currently tapering zyprexa at 3% every two weeks. 

 

Is this the correct format.  

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Worthy

Many thanks.  I hope I have updated my signature successfully

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Altostrata

Sorry for the misunderstanding. We rely on the signatures because we cannot memorize everyone's drug changes.

 

18 hours ago, Worthy said:

Thanks for your reply.  I am feeling very anxious and often sui dal.  I do have the odd window.  The thought of being on all these drugd and how i will ever get off them is  what scares me the most.  I get shakes and shivers as well.  

 

As I understand it, you made a lot of drug changes prior to deciding to be more systematic. Those drug changes upset your nervous system. You've never given it time to settle down.

 

It's been only since June 21 that you've divided your Ativan dose (please update your signature with the dosing and the date). Ordinarily, we'd advise people to wait at least a month to let one drug change settle out before making another drug change, but you've continued reducing Zyprexa throughout this period.

 

Good to hear that dividing the Ativan dosing seems to have improved your symptom pattern a little. It's hard to tell what's going on because of the continuous drug changes. Which is more important to you, to go off the drugs or feel better? As long as you keep changing the drugs in this unsettled state, you're not going to feel better. I believe I explained this to you at the beginning.

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Worthy

I am down to .7 on the zyorexa now and it is almost impossible to weigh it.  Is 

this a safe dose to get off at.  Sorry I have not posted for a while

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brassmonkey

No, that dose is still much too high to jump off of.

 

Dry cutting is always a problem when a person reaches the tiny doses at the end of a taper. There are three different paths that you could take. 1. Alto suggested back in June that you switch you attention to tapering the cymbalta and hold the zyprexa for a while. This is probably the better thing to do. 2. you could switch to a combination of weighing out a very small dose and then visually dividing it into quarters and eights and continue to taper in that manner. 3. you could start making a liquid solution which would give you better control over the dose strength, and continue tapering with that.

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Worthy
Posted (edited)

Many thanks for your reply.   Unfortunately I am unable to get a supply of the drugs as the psychiatrist I saw believed in fast tapering and won’t give me a re supply.  She only put me,on them for 6 months then said I must get off.  She lives in a neighboring country and the borders are closed.  So,I find myself in a very difficult situation.  None of the doctors here have heard of the drugs I am on so can’t give me a prescription.  What would be a safe dose to quit at.  I Know it is not recommended to,multi taper but with the current situation I have been holding but feel I may have to go,back,to multi tapering as I will definitely run out of supplies.  Are you able to help me if,this happens., I find myself in a desperate situation.  Please can you help

 

Edited by ChessieCat
deitalicised

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Worthy

The reason I carried on with the zyprexa taper rather than the cymbalta is because I,have more of,the cymbalta and that will last me a little longer.   I know my situation is unique in that I find it difficult to,source the pills but so hoping you can help me.  I,have been tapering the zyorexa @3% every two,weeks 

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Worthy

The only drug that is available to me in this country is the Ativan so I would not have to reduce that.  

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Worthy

Please can you let me know if you can help me.  I realise that multi tapering is not what you recommend.  I just need to know if you  think there is any hope for me if i carry on as i am.  If not i will really have to try and find a way to source the drugs in these very difficult circumstances. Please can you give me an answer.   

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DataGuy
Posted (edited)

Hello @Worthy. I don't know what your supply of medications looks like, can you let us know how much you have left of each? I think you should do your best to get more supplies. People can take a very long time to get off these drugs safely. You don't want to be left in a situation where you are disabled by withdrawal symptoms. Tapering too fast can cause some pretty serious harm to the nervous system. 

 

If it is dangerous to obtain more of the medications you are going to need to decide which is more risky for you. What are the dangers you face in getting more meds? It may be worth your while to try and contact an organization like Doctors Without Borders to see if they know how you can get resupplied with meds. 

Edited by DataGuy

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Worthy

Thank.you for your quick reply.  I live in Zimbabwe where there are no supplies.  I am thinking of tapering the 3 drugs @ 3% every two weeks.   Will this be really dangerous.  I started doing this a while back before Alto told me to do only one at a time.  I am on very low doses of all the drugs as a result and so think none of them are helping at all.  I dont have access to doctor's without borders as our Govt will not allow us to import drugs without a licence.  I currently have 90 tablets zyprexa 

90 mirtazapine 

120 cymbalta 

I managed to get these a while back when the dr last gave me a 6 month prescription due to unavailability in this country and she said i could get 9ff withim 6 months. She believes in a fast taper so wont give me anymore. She is not from this country but lives in a neighbouring country where i was treated last year for depression.  Turns out it was a wrong diagnosis as she admitted later it was zoplcline withdrawls.  

I am on

.78mg  zyprexa

2.9 mg mirtazapine 

13.5 mg cymbalta 

If i multi taper @ 3% every 2 weeks i will have enough.  

I really value your advice 

 

 

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DataGuy

Hi @Worthy

 

You are definitely not going to have enough, especially of the Cymbalta. The reason is that you are tapering 3% from the *new* dosage. So the taper would go like this:

 

1st 2 weeks: 13.5mg cymbalta x (0.97) = 13.095mg.   2nd two weeks: 13.095 x (0.97) = 12.70215.   3rd cut: 12.70215 x 0.97 = 12.32108 etc etc. 

 

So you are cutting the dosage less and less each time, but the same percentage. It is just that it is 3% of the smaller dose. This is done because you need to slow down near the end. The receptors that the drug occupies are less occupied by higher dosages of the drug than they are at lower dosages (per mg dose). The receptors can also be desensitized or downregulated, which exacerbates the situation. Did you say that all of these drugs are not available in your country? Do doctors have a licence to import them? Could you get one to order them for you? They need to understand that it can be dangerous to stop these meds cold-turkey.

 

If not, I would do your best to get to the country where you were prescribed them in the first place, when you get that opportunity. @Altostrata is right. You should only taper one drug at a time and the combination of drugs you are on is a difficult one, even if they are relatively low doses. It is most definitely dangerous to taper all at once. 

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Altostrata
10 hours ago, Worthy said:

Please can you let me know if you can help me.  I realise that multi tapering is not what you recommend.  I just need to know if you  think there is any hope for me if i carry on as i am.  If not i will really have to try and find a way to source the drugs in these very difficult circumstances. Please can you give me an answer.   

 

As explained before many times, if you must go off multiple drugs quickly, you'll have to cope with the results, which we cannot predict. Since you're already having withdrawal symptoms from the drug changes you've made so far, most likely they will get worse with additional reductions of multiple drugs.

 

9 hours ago, Worthy said:

I currently have 90 tablets zyprexa 

90 mirtazapine 

120 cymbalta 

 

What are the dosages of the tablets and capsules for each of these drugs?

 

What is your daily schedule, with dosages, of Ativan?

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Worthy

Thank,you for your reply.  Please can you explain in what way my withdrawals could get worse.  The psychiatrist who,prescribed the drugs is,totally uninterested in slow tapers and will not prescribe any more for me. She only wanted me on them for a 6 month period and believes I should,have tapered off them,by now.  A local psychiatrist does also not believe in slow tapers, either especially at the low dose that I am on now, but may be persuaded to try and source them for me but this,could,be a problem due to availability.   If I was to taper only one at a time would I need to stabilize before starting the taper.  It is such a stressful time so I cannot hold forever.   If I am to do one  at a time at a low dose it will,take me years and years to taper off.   I also have no medical, insurance as I am a pensioner and can no longer afford the premiums.  

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Altostrata
30 minutes ago, Worthy said:

Thank,you for your reply.  Please can you explain in what way my withdrawals could get worse.  The psychiatrist who,prescribed the drugs is,totally uninterested in slow tapers and will not prescribe any more for me. She only wanted me on them for a 6 month period and believes I should,have tapered off them,by now.  A local psychiatrist does also not believe in slow tapers, either especially at the low dose that I am on now, but may be persuaded to try and source them for me but this,could,be a problem due to availability.   If I was to taper only one at a time would I need to stabilize before starting the taper.  It is such a stressful time so I cannot hold forever.   If I am to do one  at a time at a low dose it will,take me years and years to taper off.   I also have no medical, insurance as I am a pensioner and can no longer afford the premiums.  

 

This is the same discussion that's been going on since August 2019. Yes, we know you can't get more drugs. We understand that. We sympathize with you in your difficult position. We cannot change how fast tapering might affect you.

 

30 minutes ago, Worthy said:

Please can you explain in what way my withdrawals could get worse.

 

You know how you feel now? It can get worse. You can stop sleeping. You can have constant surges of electrical feelings. You could want to jump out of your skin.

 

From now on, instead of asking this question over and over -- which will get the same answer -- please re-read your topic from the beginning.

 

In the meantime, please read staff questions carefully and answer completely:

 

4 hours ago, Altostrata said:

What are the dosages of the tablets and capsules for each of these drugs?

 

What is your daily schedule, with dosages, of Ativan?

 

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Worthy

Thank you.  My daily doses are

 

cymbalta taken at 7am 13.5 mg down from 60mg

zyprexa taken at  10pm .75 mg down from 5 mg

mirtazapine taken at 10 pm 2,9mg down from 15 mg

 

I take the Ativan once at 10 pm at a dose of .5 mg.   I did take 1mg twice a day for a couple of days but stopped doing that after a few days.  I realize this was against advice but thought I did not want to get use to taking a higher dose when I had already reduced.  

 

i hope this answers all the questions and you will be able to give me a tapering guide line to follow.   I have been multi tapering but now realize I must STOP this and try to do one drug at a time if I can get the drugs.   If you can now give me a tapering guide line I will do my best to stick to it.    Please can you say if I wil need to stabilize if I am to start tapering one drug at a time and roughly how long you think that could take. 

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Worthy

Another reason I would prefer to reduce the zyprexa first is because it was difficult to source right at the beginning when I was first prescribed it.    

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Worthy

I apologize for not taking your advice in the beginning but I thought I could try and do it on my own.  I realize I made a big mistake and now suffering.   If you think,there is hope for me and I can get better by tapering one drug at a time I will do my best to try and source the drugs and follow your advice.  I sincerely hope I have not left it too late.  I am not looking forward to the long long taper.  

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Worthy

I am struggling to understand how to update my signature.  

Current stock, of pills 

90 zyprexa @5mg

90 mirtazapine @ 15 mg

120 cymbalta @ 60 mg

30 Ativan @ 1mg

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Worthy

Please can you help as i really know i cant do this on my own

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