Worthy: tapering advice wanted

[Shep]

On 5/4/2022 at 8:14 AM, Shep said:

Please don't taper any of your drugs. As mentioned in my last post, you may want to move the morning Ativan from the Cymbalta by two hours to see if that helps with any potential drug interactions.

 

Worthy, were you able to make this change?

[Worthy]

Yes i tried this for past 2 days. So far no change  

[Worthy]

Realty struggling to do a daily diary.  Just zero concentration.  Struggling so bad.  Please any suggestions 

[Shep]

7 hours ago, Worthy said:

Please any suggestions 

 

I would get a small notepad or a piece of paper and a pen to carry around with you. When you take your drug, write down how you felt before your drug and then how you felt 30 minutes afterwards. And every morning, write down how many hours you slept. If you have a significant spike in symptoms, write it down - the time of day and the symptom.

 

We can't do this for you, Worthy. In order to get free help from people who've been studying withdrawal for years, it seems like a small price to pay to simply tell us what your symptoms are before and after you take your drugs.

[Worthy]

Thank you so much for replying.   I honestly just feel terrible 24/7.  If i wrote a diary it would just say when i  ate when i dose  snd no changes in horrifuc symptoms throughout day or night 

[ChessieCat]

8 hours ago, Worthy said:

If i wrote a diary it would just say when i  ate when i dose  snd no changes in horrifuc symptoms throughout day or night 

 

I encourage you to make the effort and provide the notes.  The staff understand that it can be difficult and stressful for a member to provide daily symptoms notes especially in the midst of suffering, which is quite often when the notes are needed most.  However it is important to understand that the request for daily symptom notes is made for a very good reason and staff do not ask for them for no purpose.  You have come to SA to get help and the staff want to help you as best they can, but the staff need your help in order to help you.  Staff are not omniscient; the notes are the best way that they know of to help a member. The senior mods have a lot of experience and are sometimes able to notice patterns etc from symptoms notes that a member experiencing them is not able to notice.  When you are suffering it all feels bad and it all feels the same, but small variations, eg the slight easing or worsening of a symptom, can sometimes provide the information needed.

 

Don't think of the daily symptom notes as a chore, think of them as an investigative tool to try to find out what is happening which could lead to a change being made that might make you feel a bit better.  And that is what you are wanting - to feel better than you are currently feeling.  But without the notes the staff are not able to help you.

 

To start with 3 consecutive days are required.

[Worthy]

I have tapered too fast and CT d in previous tapers from various drugs.   I came off ativan slowly but was so severe dr insisted i reinstate which has been a huge mistake.  I am now way worse than ever.  I have been trying to taper again slowly but not coping and dont know what to do.  Still also on a low dose of cymbalta but trying to get off ATI first.   Each day gets more difficult with increased and more severe symptoms.  Could it be still in protracted withdrawls from prevous tapering and now getting off ativan just too difficult as CNS damaged.  Any suggestions on how to cope with debilitating withdrawal from ativan. 

 

Edited June 18, 2022 by ChessieCat
new topic moved from tapering forum

[ChessieCat]

 

On 5/4/2022 at 10:14 PM, Shep said:

Please don't taper any of your drugs. As mentioned in my last post, you may want to move the morning Ativan from the Cymbalta by two hours to see if that helps with any potential drug interactions.

 

Please keep posting your daily notes.

 

You never posted the notes which Shep requested above.

 

Without these notes it is very difficult for the staff to try and work out what is happening.

 

To start with please provide 3 consecutive days of daily symptom notes.

 

[Worthy]

Thank you for replying Chessie Cat.  I have not posted my daily symptoms as they dont change.  I feel dreadful 24/7.  I take the ativan morning and evening and cymbalta in the morning.  The ativan gives me no relief at all.  I get very little sleep maybe 2 hours a night on a good night and the rest of the day i am unable to do anything.  Main symptoms are constant tremors; vertigo; agoraphobia; sound light sensitive where the slightest noise makes me jerk; severe anxiety; terrified of what is happening.  I am like this all day.  

[ChessieCat]

Your symptoms may appear the same to you but the staff can sometimes notice something that you don't.

 

Sorry, but without the notes the staff are not able to assist you.

 

This is what Shep posted early in May:

 

On 5/9/2022 at 11:11 PM, Shep said:

We can't do this for you, Worthy. In order to get free help from people who've been studying withdrawal for years, it seems like a small price to pay to simply tell us what your symptoms are before and after you take your drugs.

 

[Worthy]

thank you for your reply.   I will try my best to do this but is it possible that I am in paws from previous tapers and CTs and that is why I am having such a severe time as I have never stabilised.   I feel no different at any time of the day.  My symptoms don’t change at all before or after taking the medication.  Do you still want me to do a daily chart.  
 

Edited June 20, 2022 by ChessieCat
deitalicised font

[Worthy]

Sorry to ask but if in tolerance to the benzo where it gives absolutely no relief is it still worth holding on it.  I know benzos are very different to anti depressants.  

[Worthy]

Daily chart
 

5am  extreme panic , tremors, jump at any noise, anxiety and fear of everything

 

6am.   Take dose of cymbalta and 1/4 dose Ativan.  Drink tea

 

7am.     Agoraphobia and not wanting to leave the bedroom.  Bad diarrhea

 

8am.      Breakfast in bed of fruit and cereal

 

9am.       Still too frightened to do anything

 

10am.       No change

 

11am.         Get dressed but go straight back to bed as no motuvation

 

midday.     Take 2nd dose Ativan 

 

1pm.            No change .  Eat light lunch but nauseous 

 

2pm.            Walk to lounge area and lie on the couch

 

3pm.              Very restless.

 

4pm.             Drink tea but nauseous

 

5pm.             Take a short walk outside but feel very anxious and agoraphobia bad

 

6pm.            Third dose Ativan 

 

7pm.              Light supper fish anD vegetables.  Try to watch TV but zero concentration 

 

8pm.             Slight improvement as not shaking so much but still extreme anxiety

 

9pm.              Bath 

 

10.pm.          Back to bed

 

12pm.            Last dose of Ativan as no sleep

 

midnght to 5am.    Toss and turn all night, sweats, jerks and tremors.   Very sensitive to first light and noises.   Find it difficult to focus.  Severe insomnia and extreme anxiety and fear of everything.  
 

This has been the past 24 hours.    

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

      

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Shep]

10 hours ago, Worthy said:

5am  extreme panic , tremors, jump at any noise, anxiety and fear of everything

 

6am.   Take dose of cymbalta and 1/4 dose Ativan.  Drink tea

 

7am.     Agoraphobia and not wanting to leave the bedroom.  Bad diarrhea

 

8am.      Breakfast in bed of fruit and cereal

 

Thanks for listing your notes, Worthy.

 

What type of tea did you drink? Just asking to see if that might have caused the GI symptoms or if that's an ongoing problem? If it is an ongoing issue, you may want to stop eating cereal and other foods that are high in fiber because that can make diarrhea worse. Also, make sure you're drinking water to replace the fluids because dehydration can cause similar problems to withdrawal. 

 

12 hours ago, Worthy said:

Sorry to ask but if in tolerance to the benzo where it gives absolutely no relief is it still worth holding on it.  I know benzos are very different to anti depressants.  

 

 

Please update your signature to show us what doses you were on for the past 6 months. We need this information to see if you may benefit from an updose and to see if your taper speed may need to change. This will also help us answer your question about tolerance. 

 

For future notes, please also add the doses for each of your drugs in your daily journal. 

[Worthy]

  

1 hour ago, unblocktheplanet said:

What I have not seen addressed here is cognitive decline associated with Benzes, particularly in the elderly. That's my big concern.

 

Can you explain what you mean.  Are you saying the elderly are more at risk on benzos.  Your post has scared me 

 

Edited July 1, 2022 by ChessieCat
added quote before moving to member's intro

[unblocktheplanet]

14 minutes ago, Worthy said:

Can you explain what you mean.  Are you saying the elderly are more at risk on benzos.  Your post has scared me 

Oh, yeah. Although Benzos are apparently not implicated in dementia or Alzheimer's (sorry, I don't have this very recent study handy), permanent cognitive decline to varying degrees of severity have been a persistent observation. I kind of like the way I think!

[Worthy]

So do we get off them as quick as possible.  I am tapering ati but having extreme symptoms and getting worse daily.  Is it worth speeding up my taper. Reinstated and huge mistake.  Need suggestions as so terified what is hapoening.  I am 68.  Any positive suggestion 

[unblocktheplanet]

@Worthy

Well, I'm sure not the best example of this, of course!

 

I'm just going to play it out, taper Trazodone till Sept 2023, then address Alpraz if I've still got any marbles left in the bag. 

[Worthy]

Have you been.on anything else.   Are you struggling wirh your taper now 

[unblocktheplanet]

Looks like I've been on some of the sh*t you have. Yep, at our age, we're sort of running out of time. Nevertheless, it is what it is. I'm going to take it slow, as I said.

 

I just had a 10-month tsunami during & after tapering & weaning Mirtazapine. Let's see how long my window lasts. This hiatus was way too long so I'm running fast trying to accomplish everything I missed while the tide's still out.

 

I'm pretty new to this but I bet it's your multitaper that's keeping you in the bag.

 

Leave that to the experienced folks here to help to sort that out.

[Worthy]

Can anybody please say if gryting4xrto

1 hour ago, Worthy said:

So do we get off them as quick as possible.  I am tapering ati but having extreme symptoms and getting worse daily.  Is it worth speeding up my taper. Reinstated and huge mistake.  Need suggestions as so terified what is hapoening.  I am 68.  Any positive suggestion 

 

[Shep]

2 hours ago, Worthy said:

So do we get off them as quick as possible.  I am tapering ati but having extreme symptoms and getting worse daily.  Is it worth speeding up my taper. Reinstated and huge mistake.  Need suggestions as so terified what is hapoening.  I am 68.  Any positive suggestion 

 

Cognitive problems can come from tapering benzos too quickly. People in their 20s report cognitive problems from going off these drugs too quickly.

 

There are many people who get off benzos safely in their 60s, 70s, 80s, etc. 

 

You may want to check out some of the success stories over on Benzo Buddies for people who were over 60, had spent decades on these drugs, and are now completely healed. Here is one:

 

Challis' Success

[Worthy]

Thanks Shep.  Is 10% every 2 weeks too quick. Drs want me to do a quarter tablet every 2 weeks as say its doing more harm than good after reinstated.  Too weak to do anything and cant concentrate more than few seconds. Cognitive damage?

[Shep]

11 minutes ago, Worthy said:

Is 10% every 2 weeks too quick.

 

Yes, that is too quick.

 

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

I'm sorry this is happening, Worthy, but rushing your taper will not improve the long-term outcome. 

 

You may want to join Benzo Buddies for the social support. I wouldn't get your tapering information there (that site is notorious for recommending other psychiatric drugs), but it may help to chat online with other people over 60 who share the same concerns. 

[Worthy]

How do you suggest i taper as i struggle to force .myself to take each dose knowing how toxic it is.  Sorry but in a bad way 

[Worthy]

Where can i get tapering support.  Sorry i have not done my daily chsrt but just not able to concentrate 

[unblocktheplanet]

Worthy, I know what that place feels like. I just did 10 months of that prison. You're in the right place for support.

 

But BenzoBuddies is all about Benzos. You can't speed this up without great pain.

 

Those 10 month tsunami felt like cognitive decline but now in a window, I'm fully back on my game.

 

As they say here, don't think too much! You'll get there, step by step.

 

 

CJ

Bangkok

[Worthy]

Hi.  Posting on behalf for my wife who has been on this group but been in such a bad wave these past few months she has not posted anything.  Can anybody help.

Just to clarify when Rose came off her first med zopiclone ct the drs did not recognize it as withdrawls so she was prescribed a series of drugs over 2 months.  The drs never said they take time to work so switched her from one to the other.  The drugs were amisulpuride, Prozac, seroquel, amitriptyline, citalopram, escitalopram all ctd.  She was then put on  mirtazapine, and  olanzapine and fast tapered off both of those.  And then put on  Cymbalta and  about 3 months later Ativan.  The drs told her once on the Ativan to take  both for a month together then slowly start tapering both together.  She did this but when in a bad way she was told to updose the Ativan for a month then taper again.  The drs wanted her to fast taper the cymbajta but after research we realized thus was not safe at all.  She managed to get off the Ativan as you know following your taper plan.  Again the drs did  not see it was withdrawl so told her to go back on it.  She didn’t want to be on it as it was not helping in any way so she decided to get off doing a slow taper . 
> 
> She has been doing this Ativan taper and holding the cymbalta. So she has been seriously over drugged by incompetent drs who clearly don’t understand  psych drugs. I wish we had known all about the damage psych drugs before but now have to get her off the safest way possible.   

 

[ChessieCat]

Q:  What are her current symptoms?

 

Q:  What drugs is she currently taking, what doses and at what times?

 

Q:  How is her sleep?

 

Q:  Has she been sick, taken antibiotics, drinking alcohol?

 

Q:  What dose and drug changes have been made since 1 May 2022?

 

I will ask the other staff for their assistance. Please answer the above questions ASAP so that they can respond having the information.

 

Edited September 18, 2022 by ChessieCat
added a bit more

[Worthy]

Current symptoms. Anxiety, depression, fear, panic attacks, confusion, anger, dizzy, sweating, cold, tremors, RLS, paralysis, stool problems, rashes, gum swelling, body pains, blurred vision. These symptoms come and go - waves and windows.

 

See correction in following post stating:  1st May at 3.1mg cymbalta and 1mg ativan

 

currently on Ati at 0.68 mg a day, taken in half doses morning and evening. On 1st May, we were at 2mg and were just starting the taper.

And Cymbalta at 1.5 mg taken at 07.00 am. On 1st May, we were at 22 mg.

 

Very bad insomnia, maybe 2 hours sleep each night.

 

She has not been sick, except a uti maybe 2 months ago, cannot remember the antibiotic but not a quinolone. No alcohol.

 

Edited September 19, 2022 by ChessieCat
added note re correction

[Worthy]

Sorry made a mistske on 1st May at 3.1mg cymbalta and 1mg ativan.   

[Worthy]

She has been tapering slowly since May.

[Worthy]

Sorry for the late reply but we live in Zimbabwe so in a different time zone

Edited September 19, 2022 by Worthy

[Worthy]

Sorry deleted message.  In a severe panic and not sure what to do.  

Edited September 19, 2022 by Worthy

[Shep]

 

5 hours ago, Worthy said:

currently on Ati at 0.68 mg a day, taken in half doses morning and evening. On 1st May, we were at 2mg and were just starting the taper.

And Cymbalta at 1.5 mg taken at 07.00 am. On 1st May, we were at 22 mg.

 

Going from 2 mg Ativan down to 0.68 mg is a 66% reduction in 5 months. That's way too fast. We recommend tapering no faster than 10% per month, based on the prior month's dose (not the original dose). If tapering by 10%, you would be at 1.18 mg after 5 reductions (May 1 - September 1). No wonder there are so many symptoms. Again, that's way too fast a taper. 

 

Please clarify how much Cymbalta was being taken on 1st May. The signature states 4 mg, but here you're stating 22 mg. 

 

We also advise not tapering two drugs at once. Please see:

 

Taking multiple psych drugs? Which drug to taper first?

 

We recommend coming off the antidepressant first and then the benzo, which helps with sleep. 

 

Are you having trouble getting your prescriptions? Is that why you are rushing this taper? 

 

 

[Worthy]

No sorry made mistake.  Down to 22 beads cymbalta equals 1.5mg.  Getting zero relief from benzo having opposite effect.