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composter

Another suggestion, based on something that was personally very helpful for me during sleepless nights with overwhelming fear:

 

Write your personal messages of encouragement or mantras on paper and post them on your wall. You can decorate this on posterboard with magazine cutouts and images of hope & peace that resonate with you. Or you can keep it super simple with printer paper. This way, you have something to look at and repeat to yourself in the difficult times, especially because during these times it is hard to remember certain truths.

 

Messages/mantras that I have on my wall (again, go with what resonates with you):

  • God is in control.
  • Have no fear.
  • Trust, acceptance, surrender.
  • Hold on. It will pass. 
  • You are not alone.
  • Peace, peace, peace. 

You can also add encouraging quotes (e.g. Bible verses), and suggestions to yourself of what to do if you are in a bad place (e.g. call a friend, write in journal, light a candle, play a meditation). These reminders really helped me in the dark moments to reorient my mind and keep myself calm.

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Zans
6 hours ago, composter said:

 

I think it would be useful for mods to review Gemma's history and let us know if perhaps a small updose would help in her case. She doesn't seem to be having any windows after making cuts from 15 to 11 mg in the last few months. (Unclear on the exact timeline for these cuts, but it does seem quicker than the 10% rate, @Gemma92 can you provide more detail on the timeline?) Gemma - a long hold of several months would probably be the best option, short of considering an updose of 1-3 mg to try to stabilize and get windows. Hopefully we can get some mods to chime in on this. And when you do reduce your dose, stick to the 10% rule advocated here or consider going even slower, like 5% per month or a Brassmonkey slide.

 

 

Sister, thank you for advocating for her and seeking help. Perhaps you would find it helpful to make an appointment with a doctor in your area who would be familiar with withdrawal, and can maybe provide some reassurance. Have you tried this yet? See the Mad in America provider directory (https://www.madinamerica.com/provider-directory/) or the thread on SA below:

 

Other than that, continue on with creating a supportive environment: Walking and gentle movement like yoga or light dancing. Soothing music, candlelight, activities like puzzles or simple board games. Storytelling, sketching, crocheting, reading books aloud -- things that can occupy the mind and hands to distract from difficult thoughts.

 

The brain is incredibly resilient and will heal, given time, time, and more time. Those of us who go through this pull through some of the darkest nights and darkest thoughts/urges the human body could ever experience. We've been there, and yes it could be possible that your case is extremely agonizing. Hold on. You are still you--you haven't lost your personality or your soul or spirit to these drugs. None of us do. You will regain your peace. You will regain your abilities. We stand with you.

Very well said!

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Gemma92

@composter

Thank you so much for the help! After already being severely kindled from various drugs, I was cold turkeyed off of 2.5mg of Zyprexa after 3 months of use and my Mirtazapine was cut from 22.5mg to 15mg at the same time back at the end of last March/beginning of February. I started cutting from the 15mg 3 months later and changed from dry to liquid tapering. I believe it was at the end of May and beginning of June. After that, the cuts were very quick over the next few months. I used to have tiny partial windows and now I have none. I have been on the 11mg for a month now and also on a new diet. I recently just lost my sense of taste, smell and no longer have adrenal surges from loud noises but the complete opposite. My brain feels more dead and doesn't react to anything. I also developed physcial akathisia in my legs along with the mental that I already had. 

My symptoms don't cycle like they used to. It's constant and only gets worse if anything.

 

I appreciate all the help you and everyone else is giving me on this forum. I hope my brain is not too battered to heal. Have you heard of cases like mine get better? My body is stuck in a constant state of psychotic like symptoms and anhedonia. 

 

We tried so many doctors but none have believed any of this. We tried getting in with Dr. Peter Breggin but never got a call back. I know his office is very busy though. Thank you for the link that Alto posted about doctors. I'll definitely look into it. 

 

I tried meditating once and the thoughts kept coming in my head that I have permanent damage.  I am worried that I do because my symptoms never change and stay constant and only worsen. And I only have like 10 or 15 symptoms but they are severe. I think the more, the better because that means the brain is working on things. Sorry for my rambling and repetitiveness. 

Right now I am playing video games to belp distract myself but alls what I think about is death and how I cannot feel love. 😞 

 

I love the quote, "God is in control." I hope he gives me a second chance at life! 🙏

 

The only good thing is that I can sleep pretty good. 

 

Thanks again for the help. If I heal and can feel connections again, I know this will mean so much more to me. ❤

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Leo1983

Hi Gemma,

 

Please take 1 positive you have over some other people. 

 

YOU SLEEP!!

 

WOW..... I did not sleep more than 3 hrs for almost 6 month....... It nearly killed me how long the days and nights were...

 

Just take that positive with you. Then take every other little positive you can.

 

👍

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Gemma92

Thanks @Leo1983 

I hope that it's a good sign and that it'll help me recover faster. 

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Gemma92

I used to take benadryl a lot in the past and it never had any effect on me as I built a tolerance to the histamine effect fairly quickly. Now I am worried the same has happened with Mirtazapine and that I won't ever stabalize on it ever. This is so scary. Am I overthinking this? What happens if I get interdose withdrawal? 😢 I read Pinkfairy's thread and it seemed she got better after reducing Mirtazapine. I am not going to touch it again for several months I promise but I wonder if true healing is off these toxins. 

 

I need to survive this so I can put an end to this. Because no human beings should have to walk through hell like this 24/7. How many people are in state hospitals like this!? I need to get them out. I need to help them. 

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Leo1983

Alto always told me sleep is a good sign!

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Gemma92

How many people have healed that have been as damaged as me? I still never read one success story where someone was kindled on some 16+drugs. And I am not talking about people who were a ton of drugs for years. I am talking about a short-term user who was in a mild withdrawal but didn't know it and got drugged up until she became a walking vegetable. I cannot take this anymore. I am at my breaking point. I would have healed before the last 2 drugs were thrown into my poor battered brain. Now I have drug induced psychosis, mental akathisia and massive anhedonia along with feelings like am a disabled disgusting burden. I appreciate everyone's help on this website but nobody really can see how messed up and severe I am. I feel like I should be in a cage and put in a circus because I am a beast now. A wild animal that needs to be hunted down and tortured forever. I am at my breaking point now. No human being should have to feel like they're ****** in hell for all eternity. No human being should have to lose their personality and their soul. We are only the way we are based on how our bodies are functioning. What a waste of a life this is. If this post is too triggering, then please delete it. I can't help with how crazy I have become. And I am sorry for anyone else who is this sick out there. It's worse than hell. Please forgive me and don't bother getting mad at my post. You can't reason with animals. 😔 If it's bad, just delete it. 

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PgadAdam

Gemma i feel the same way especially the unrelenting anhedonia, and feeling like a monster due to lack of emotion. ur not alone in this, happens to alot of people even with very brief exposure to a psychiatric drug. you have to be strong coz if you give up you essentially allow the drug companies to win. give yourself a few years to recover atleast and keep track of any minor improvements in symptoms as a way to motivate yourself into that mindset that you ARE and will get better slowly but surely. sending love and my best wishes :)

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Gemma92
16 hours ago, PgadAdam said:

Gemma i feel the same way especially the unrelenting anhedonia, and feeling like a monster due to lack of emotion. ur not alone in this, happens to alot of people even with very brief exposure to a psychiatric drug. you have to be strong coz if you give up you essentially allow the drug companies to win. give yourself a few years to recover atleast and keep track of any minor improvements in symptoms as a way to motivate yourself into that mindset that you ARE and will get better slowly but surely. sending love and my best wishes :)

Thank you and I am sorry you're suffering too. 

I worry I will not be able to heal while on a drug still because I get no windows. And it seems like things are just getting worse. It helps when everyone tells me that I will heal so I do need to keep fighting to see it happen and see that you all were right! 

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Gemma92

Whatever Zyprexa and Mirtazapine did, they did something horrific to me. The Mirtazapine gave me instant rage while on it. So if it's doing this to me, how can I recover from it if it gave me immediate bad side effects? It is messing with me. But I know getting off of it won't exactly fix things but I don't think I'll ever stabalize on it because it never helped me in the first place. Kind of like a doubled edged sword. I am at a loss. If I survive this, it'll be a miracle. 😔

 

I expect the volunteers to know the right things to say like they are miracle workers or something and I shouldn't be like that. I'm sorry... These drugs have taken my all my dignity 

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Gemma92

My symptoms:

-Paranoia

-Agoraphobia

-Suicidal urges

-Terror so bad I can feel my brain melting in it

-Head pressure 

-burning brain

-DP/DR

-Personality changes

-Severe anhedonia

-Legs get restless at night

-I feel crazy and I am delusional

-Numb body

-No sense of time

-No taste

-No smell

-Hopelessness

-Heavy crying spells

 

All these symptoms are with me constantly and only worsening. I try to play video games to distract myself but the suffering is just too much. Will things really get better on a long hold? What will happen if Mirt gives me interdose withdrawal or if it poops out? 😭😭😭😭 God help me. 

 

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PgadAdam

it really is awful that the disability caused by the drugs is completely denied and ignored by doctors but you can beat this, just dont expect a quick fix it will definitely be gradual improvement. i havent improved yet in 8 months off the drug zoloft but maybe i will in a few years

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PgadAdam

just stay safe okay?  lots of people have recovered on this site but it wasn't overnight. just have to have faith we too will be posting a sucess story further down the road

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composter

Going to tag a few mods/mentors who have responded to your posts in the past few months:

 

@Gridley, @Rhiannon, @Altostrata

 

Can you take a look at Gemma's and my recent posts on her thread? She has been severely kindled on multiple drugs and has not been improving after making cuts from 15 to 11 mg in recent months. She is no longer getting windows and says things are getting worse. Do you think a slight updose would be helpful for her?

 

Thanks for your input and time.

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Gemma92

@PgadAdam and @composter. Thank you both for the help. This is a battle. I wish the doctors would recognize this too. 

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Gemma92

I also forgot to mention that I never had a window on the homemade liquid. Only on the dry cuts. I switched to the liquid at the end of last May. But I made a cut the same time I switched. So I have been making changes since the end of May without long holds. The longest hold I ever did was only 3 months long. 

I worry the measurements aren't always accurate. I might try the scale method. And I do not take the drug the sane time everyday. I try 10:30 but sometimes it's much later than that. 

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composter

Ok Gemma, hold tight and get some sleep right now. From what you describe, it's very possible that because your doses have not been precise, your receptor levels have been swinging back and forth, which could be why you're having such a difficult time. For us to stabilize, it is highly important that we keep things as stable as possible, and the most crucial part of this is keeping the dose as stable as possible.

 

You need to be prioritizing stability, in all aspects: 

  1. Set a timer for yourself so you take the drug at the same time every day.
  2. Find a method that works for you to get much more precise with your measurements. For me, I rely on a compounding pharmacy for my doses so I don't have to worry about crushing and measuring my pill. If you have a supportive prescriber in your life (PCP or even family member with prescribing privileges) I would recommend the compounding pharmacy route to make things smoother. They would write the scripts for each drop you make. If this is not possible, determine if either the scale or liquid methods can give you better precision. This is crucial. Have your sister read the Tapering instructions on this site so she can help you get this straight.
  3. Create a stable routine for yourself with soothing activities (mentioned above). Distract yourself so you are not consumed with your symptoms. Go for walks and get sunshine. Listen to uplifting music. Spend time in nature, observe flowers and trees.
  4. Trust that you will stabilize, and you should not make any changes until you do feel much more stable. Take a long-range view of this. When you straighten out more accurate doses, give yourself 2-6 weeks to see if you experience improvements or windows. It often takes that amount of time for things to settle down and healing to happen.
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Altostrata

Good advice, composter. Thank you for looking out for Gemma.

 

Gemma, you are experiencing adverse effects from all the drugs, we know that. Sadly, nobody knows of an instant fix for this. If I knew of one or if I knew of a physician who could treat you, I'd tell you.

 

What we see here is that people very, very gradual recover. Their nervous systems settle down. You can help yours along a bit by eating healthy food, getting as much gentle exercise as you can tolerate, and not spiralling into doomy thoughts. The last is your great challenge, many of your posts show you worrying and working up your anxiety over stuff you don't have to worry about.

 

On 10/21/2019 at 9:45 AM, Altostrata said:

 

On 10/24/2019 at 3:27 PM, Altostrata said:

I wouldn't call it "psychotic fears," it's your interpretation of your iatrogenic symptoms and your beliefs about yourself, which you could change if you want. Yes, you feel awful, but you're adding the dire interpretation. Think of yourself as having had a drug accident rather than having been punished for being bad.

 

How can you work out this anger and rage? Can you get out and take walks? That would be better for you and your family.

 

On 10/25/2019 at 12:59 PM, Altostrata said:

 

Please do your best to subtract your fear of being afraid and your fear of being afraid of being afraid from your neuroemotions. In short, get out and walk around a little. This will help your body work better to fix things.

 

If you're light-sensitive, wear dark glasses outside, even on cloudy days.

 

On 10/25/2019 at 1:08 PM, Altostrata said:

Walking around in the evening is a great idea, as long as your area is safe. Do this as much as you can.

 

If you're not sleeping properly, your sense of time may be distorted. Please do what you can to stop worrying about the weird iatrogenic symptoms. They will change and mutate.

 

On 11/4/2019 at 5:07 PM, icerose87 said:

Gemma’s sister again...

 

Is there any way I can help Gemma survive this?  I really think she has some form of akathisia. She is in constant mental torment to an unimaginable degree. I really don’t think many people here experience her level of suffering. 

 

She’s been on an organic, paleo diet for about a month. She’s been attempting to meditate and distract herself, but today is a really bad day. 

 

We’re running out of time. How is it even possible that there exists something so horrendous that there is no relief or help for??!!

 

What can I do??

 

@icerose87, please help Gemma stay calm and not spiral into frantic worry. She needs to push bad thoughts away.

 

On 11/6/2019 at 1:04 PM, Gemma92 said:

I used to take benadryl a lot in the past and it never had any effect on me as I built a tolerance to the histamine effect fairly quickly. Now I am worried the same has happened with Mirtazapine and that I won't ever stabalize on it ever. This is so scary. Am I overthinking this? What happens if I get interdose withdrawal? 😢 I read Pinkfairy's thread and it seemed she got better after reducing Mirtazapine. I am not going to touch it again for several months I promise but I wonder if true healing is off these toxins. 

 

I need to survive this so I can put an end to this. Because no human beings should have to walk through hell like this 24/7. How many people are in state hospitals like this!? I need to get them out. I need to help them. 

 

The Benadryl is non-issue, you're not taking it. If mirtazapine is working, it's working. I would not worry about tolerance. I've never seen interdose withdrawal from mirtazapine.

 

As Leo1983 said, at least you sleep. This is good.

 

On 11/6/2019 at 12:07 PM, Gemma92 said:

I tried meditating once and the thoughts kept coming in my head that I have permanent damage.  I am worried that I do because my symptoms never change and stay constant and only worsen. And I only have like 10 or 15 symptoms but they are severe. I think the more, the better because that means the brain is working on things. Sorry for my rambling and repetitiveness. 

Right now I am playing video games to belp distract myself but alls what I think about is death and how I cannot feel love. 😞 

 

One of the benefits of attempting to clear your mind with meditation is that you find what's stuck in your mind. You have this sense of permanent damage, grief, and badness stuck in your mind. Practicing meditation will show you how to make these huge boulders go away. You simply teach yourself to stop thinking about them.

 

The process of meditation is hard but accomplishing it is difficult -- that's why it's called practice, you have to do it over and over. Nobody ever does it perfectly, there are always critters sneaking in that need to be pushed away.

 

You need to do this because these beliefs are amplifying your suffering. Only you can make this happen. No matter how many times you post here and no matter how many times we console you, you need to do the work yourself. This is the great existential revelation of iatrogenic drug damage: Nobody else can fix you.

 

Also see Dealing With Emotional Spirals

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Rhiannon

Thanks Alto, I have nothing to add.

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Alice1

Bravo AltoStrata … Bravo !!!

Gemma , You will never receive a more accurate suggestion .

Please work this strategy and be patient .. It won't be easy . I'm 39 months out from a CT off Lex . and I'm still Practicing ..

 

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Gemma92

Thank you @composter and @Altostrata for the support and reassurance that I will be okay with time. 

I have talked to my sister and we are going to make sure I take the Mirtazapine at the same time everyday and we will also be using scale. 

And you are right Alto, my beliefs are making this worse.It's going to be the hardest thing to overcome and work on. I always hear that voice in my head that says, "You were on too many drugs and cannot heal. You were also floxed on too many antibiotics and will not heal." All day I go over the 30 something drugs I tried to go on last year and try to figure out what caused what. 

I'll try to work on all those suggestions. I think once I get my first window, I won't have to worry so much anymore. 

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Gemma92

Can the brain still heal from psych drug damage if it's also fighting lyme disease or some autoimmuine diseases like PANDAS? 

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Altostrata

If you have an actual medical illness, you need to find treatment for it.

 

We can't distinguish between symptoms due to drug adverse effects and those caused by illnesses affecting the nervous system.

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Gemma92

Okay, I understand.

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PgadAdam

best of luck gemma, rooting for you to heal as we're in the same situation :)

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PgadAdam

i'd be more than happy to be friends off-site if you want, depends if you feel like i can help you even though i dont have much knowledge about withdrawal symptoms.i have a discord account if you would like the number please pm me.

Edited by brassmonkey
Removed personal information
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brassmonkey

Hi Adam-  I just edited your post above to remove personal information.  I have saved a copy if you really want the original reinstated.  We have found it best not to post telephone numbers and the like on the open forum, but rather to exchange it by PM. It's for your safety as well as the others on the forum.

 

Thank you for your understanding

 

Brassmonkey

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India

@Gemma92Dear Gemma,

How are you?

I wanted to send you some of Monica Cassani's work. I need to revisit it myself. 

You can dip in and out of it. I think she answers many of your questions and fears.

Do try to have a look.

 

https://beyondmeds.com/2013/01/17/neuroplasticity-enormous-implications/

 

Keep going out in nature everyday. And look at art books. Even if you feel nothing. I kept doing this to try to remind my brain. And sleep as much as you possibly can. Sleep restores. I let myself sleep anytime I want now that I can sleep. 

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India

@icerose87 You remind me of my own sister who has been there by my side though she lives half way across the world now but we still keep in touch. I know it has been hard for her. It is hard for everyone. If it is possible- I wonder if you can both take walks in nature and swim ( not sure of your climate right now). Healing for both of you. I am glad Gemma has a place to stay with you - a safe healing space is so important.

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India
On 11/8/2019 at 7:46 AM, Gemma92 said:

@PgadAdam and @composter. Thank you both for the help. This is a battle. I wish the doctors would recognize this too. 

Work is being done. An international conference was recently held ( see Mad in America). I feel the same but it will sadly take time.

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Gemma92
22 hours ago, India said:

@Gemma92Dear Gemma,

How are you?

I wanted to send you some of Monica Cassani's work. I need to revisit it myself. 

You can dip in and out of it. I think she answers many of your questions and fears.

Do try to have a look.

 

https://beyondmeds.com/2013/01/17/neuroplasticity-enormous-implications/

 

Keep going out in nature everyday. And look at art books. Even if you feel nothing. I kept doing this to try to remind my brain. And sleep as much as you possibly can. Sleep restores. I let myself sleep anytime I want now that I can sleep. 

Thank you. It's very hard for me to go outside because of the agoraphobia plus it's getting cold where I live. I know I have to push through the fear eventually. I hope I'll be able to get to that point where I can. I really want to get my love for nature back.

 

I sleep pretty good. But still no signs if healing. I don't think I am going to get stable on Mirtazapine. But I'll keep holding.

 

Thank you for the link. I'll check it out! I appreciate that you are always thinking of me even though you are suffering too. 😢

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Gemma92

Hello everyone. My symptoms are pretty much the same. Nothing is changing other than this morning I woke up with massive anhedonia and a disabled feeling. I do not get the cortisal rushes anymore. It's pure psychotic fears. Much different than the anxiety.

 

Lexapro, Ativan, Zyprexa and Mirtazapine are the worst possibly drugs to withdrawal from. I think someone put a curse on me. 😢😢😢😢😢

 

Is it a good sign I still have my video game skills? I can play the game from start to finsh but I can't read too well because of the stimualtion. So I'm kind of playing the game and not knowing what the heck is going on plus I can't feel the emotions because I am psychotic the entire time and have anhedonia. 😢 

 

Can people really heal after kindling on 9 psych drugs, 5 antibitoics, 2 sterioid shots, 5 withdrawals, brand changes, updosings and adverse effects?

 

When will it be safe for me to taper again? I guess I am the only one who would know...I have never been stable on a psych drug, not even the Lexapro. 😥

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Gemma92

It's like there is a huge wall. I am on one side and my emotions and personality are on the other. 😥 

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India
28 minutes ago, Gemma92 said:

Can people really heal after kindling on 9 psych drugs, 5 antibitoics, 2 sterioid shots, 5 withdrawals, brand changes, updosings and adverse effects?

Yes @Gemma92

See Monica's story.

https://www.madinamerica.com/2013/05/before-during-after-psychdrugs/

And the other ones I've sent you.

I understand the agoraphobia .  Your brain's fear responses appear to be running wild. It is a great sign that you can play a video game, keep doing that until you find there is something else you can do. Slowly, slowly, tiny steps.

28 minutes ago, Gemma92 said:

It's like there is a huge wall. I am on one side and my emotions and personality are on the other. 😥 

They will meet again.

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