thelegend: hoping to get there

[Terry]

Hi T.L. 

 

Burning sensations are something I have almost every day for at least some part of the day.  They are uncomfortable, but I know they are from WD.  This is something I experienced right from the start of taking generic Zoloft.  If you are concerned you could get it checked out by your doctor, but when I mentioned these sensations to a previous doctor of mine,  he said he didn't know what the cause could be.  I now KNOW what the cause is, at least in my case. 

 

Best wishes on your withdrawal journey!

[RichT]

On 9/5/2019 at 7:46 PM, thelegend said:

Anyone with any thoughts, why would this come back after being gone for over a month? Does it mean I am going backwards? Am I just spinning my wheels with this and I will never stabilize?

 

I’ve Found that symptoms do go and come back seemingly without any reason. I think a lot of people experience that. Don’t worry, it doesn’t mean you’re going backwards or even spinning your wheels.

[RichT]

1 hour ago, thelegend said:

I have started getting hot or burning sensations in my feet, with being on Zyprexa should I be concerned about diabetes? Kind of freaking me out to be honest.

 

‘Don’t worry, this is a common withdrawal symptom.

 

warmest wishes

 

Rich

[thelegend]

On 9/8/2019 at 2:48 PM, RichT said:

 

I’ve Found that symptoms do go and come back seemingly without any reason. I think a lot of people experience that. Don’t worry, it doesn’t mean you’re going backwards or even spinning your wheels.

 

Thanks Rich, good to know, did you ever find yourself stuck trying to stabilize?

[thelegend]

On 9/8/2019 at 2:49 PM, RichT said:

 

‘Don’t worry, this is a common withdrawal symptom.

 

warmest wishes

 

Rich

 

Sounds good, I’ll try not to worry. Haven’t really had it today which I would think would point to WD rather than some kind of nerve damage from diabetes.

[thelegend]

On 9/8/2019 at 1:50 PM, Terry said:

Hi T.L. 

 

Burning sensations are something I have almost every day for at least some part of the day.  They are uncomfortable, but I know they are from WD.  This is something I experienced right from the start of taking generic Zoloft.  If you are concerned you could get it checked out by your doctor, but when I mentioned these sensations to a previous doctor of mine,  he said he didn't know what the cause could be.  I now KNOW what the cause is, at least in my case. 

 

Best wishes on your withdrawal journey!

 

Did you find it went away or got better?

What are everyone’s thoughts on probiotics? My gut is really bad every morning and I can’t help but think that fixing some of this may help me.

[ChessieCat]

There are many existing topics on this site.  You can either use the site search function or a search engine and add survivingantidepressants.org the search term:

 

burning-skin-burning-feet

 

[Terry]

18 hours ago, thelegend said:

Did you find it went away or got better?

Mine is with me every day, especially in the early morning hours.  It isn't severe, but it seems to be connected to my anxiety.

 

18 hours ago, thelegend said:

What are everyone’s thoughts on probiotics? My gut is really bad every morning and I can’t help but think that fixing some of this may help me.

I have recently started taking a probiotic.  After hearing how there is a connection between gut and brain health I thought it might be helpful for both.  I too have daily intestinal issues and hope for some help with the probiotic.  I'm sure it will take some time to see any real results.

[Cocopuffz17]

3 minutes ago, Terry said:

Mine is with me every day, especially in the early morning hours.  It isn't severe, but it seems to be connected to my anxiety.

 

I have recently started taking a probiotic.  After hearing how there is a connection between gut and brain health I thought it might be helpful for both.  I too have daily intestinal issues and hope for some help with the probiotic.  I'm sure it will take some time to see any real results.

Nutrition is number one for gut health. I used a probiotic BC30 by schiffs, it is encased in a protein that allows it to survive the stomach acid as a majority of OTC probiotics do not and get destroyed in the stomach. There 100% is a link between the gut and brain. I know my nutrition changes are the only reason I am still off of Paxil. 

[thelegend]

1 hour ago, Terry said:

Mine is with me every day, especially in the early morning hours.  It isn't severe, but it seems to be connected to my anxiety.

 

I have recently started taking a probiotic.  After hearing how there is a connection between gut and brain health I thought it might be helpful for both.  I too have daily intestinal issues and hope for some help with the probiotic.  I'm sure it will take some time to see any real results.

 

 

Where are you at in your journey? Stable, I have been in the “trying to get stable” phase for over a year now and am very very tired of it. 4 months and change into a hold of everything and still struggling. Usually get windows in the evening , but not 3 out of the last 4. This makes it really hard to get through the day, not knowing if it will ever get better.

1 hour ago, Cocopuffz17 said:

Nutrition is number one for gut health. I used a probiotic BC30 by schiffs, it is encased in a protein that allows it to survive the stomach acid as a majority of OTC probiotics do not and get destroyed in the stomach. There 100% is a link between the gut and brain. I know my nutrition changes are the only reason I am still off of Paxil. 

 

Good to know, thanks for the info!

[Cocopuffz17]

1 hour ago, thelegend said:

 

Good to know, thanks for the info!

 

Not a problem! All the best to you!

[thelegend]

Not sure what to do guys, the last 3 weeks I feel like I am just getting worse and worse. 4 months into a hold, shouldn’t I be seeing some positive stuff happening. Honestly feel as bad as when I 1st reinstated too high an amount in May. I would have said I was slowly getting better, but the last 3 weeks everything has turned on me and it just keeps getting worse!

[thelegend]

It has to get better at some point, right? Almost 2 years of this now and have never been stable the entire time. I just keep telling myself it can’t last forever and has to get better at some point.

[Dejavu]

1 hour ago, thelegend said:

just keep telling myself it can’t last forever and has to get better at some point.

Yes.

 

You are experiencing a wave. Please read this link:

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/82-the-windows-and-waves-pattern-of-stabilization/

 

[thelegend]

1 hour ago, Dejavu said:

Yes.

 

You are experiencing a wave. Please read this link:

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/82-the-windows-and-waves-pattern-of-stabilization/

 

 

Thanks, so you think it is just a wave and not something going wrong with my hold? Two most distressing things are 1st it started to not get better at night like it used to. As bad as the day was, I knew at some point it would get better, that hasn’t been the case the last few days. Also my arms feel “burning” in the morning. A symptom I had in May and June after my reinstatement, but went away for the most part in July, August and start of September. Has come back for the last week, was the one thing I could point to that showed definite improvement.

[thelegend]

Things are still really tough! Not sure if it is a wave or if I just continue to spiral down and down. So crazy, when I was on vacation a month ago I thought stabilization was just around the corner and a matter of time. That seems like another time and place, and things just keep getting worse. I don’t know what to do!

[Dejavu]

I will answer your PM here in your thread.

 

Again, 4.5 months is not a long time in the world of withdrawal. You are experiencing windows and waves, which is to be expected while you await stabilization. You are letting your anxiety get the better of you. Please read

 

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/17909-are-we-there-yet-how-long-is-withdrawal-going-to-take/

 

And

 

We strongly encourage members to learn and use non drug coping techniques to help get through tough times.

 

Understanding what is happening helps us to not get caught up with the second fear, or fear of the fear.  This happens when we experience sensations in our body and because we don't understand them we are scared of them and then start to panic.

 

This document has a diagram of the body explaining what happens in the body when we become anxious:

 

https://www.getselfhelp.co.uk/docs/AnxietySelfHelp.pdf

 

Anxiety Stuff - all kinds of stuff about anxiety attacks and things that help ...

 

Audio FEMALE VOICE:  First Aid for Panic (4 minutes)

 

Audio MALE VOICE:  First Aid for Panic (4 minutes)

 

Non-drug techniques to cope

 

dealing-with-emotional-spirals

 

Dr Claire Weekes suffered from anxiety and learned and taught ways of coping.  There are videos available on YouTube.

 

Claire Weekes' Method of Recovering from a Sensitized Nervous System

 

Audio:  How to Recover from Anxiety - Dr Claire Weekes

 

CBT Course:  An Introductory Self-Help Course in Cognitive Behaviour Therapy

 

Resources:  Centre for Clinical Interventions (PDF modules that you can work through, eg:  Depression, Distress Intolerance, Health Anxiety, Low Self-Esteem, Panic Attacks, Perfectionism, Procrastination, Social Anxiety, Worrying)

 

  On 4/27/2017 at 1:03 PM, brassmonkey said:

 

AAF: Acknowledge, Accept, Float.  It's what you have to do when nothing else works, and can be a very powerful tool in coping with anxiety.  The neuroemotional anxiety many of us feel during WD is directly caused by the drugs and their chemical reactions in the brain.  Making it so there is nothing we can do about them.  They won't respond to other drugs, relaxation techniques and the like.  They do, however, react very well to being ignored.  That's the concept behind AAF.  Acknowledge, get to know the feeling involved, explore them.  Accept, These feelings are a part of you and they aren't going anywhere fast. Float, let the feeling float off as you get on with your life as best as you can.  It's a well documented fact that the more you feed in to anxiety the worse it gets.  What starts as generalized neuroemotinal anxiety can be easily blown into a full fledged panic attack just by thinking about it.

 

I often liken it to an unwanted house guest.  At first you talk to them, have conversations, communicate with them.  After a while you figure out that they aren't leaving and there is nothing you can do to get rid of them.  So you go on about your day, working around them until they get bored and leave.

 

It can take some practice, but AAF really does work.  I hope you give it a try.

[thelegend]

I had to go to the dentist today to get some fillings. I have read some people respond poorly to the numbing shot. How long does it take for this adverse effect to happen if it does? How long does it last?

[Dejavu]

How are you doing TL? Any uptick in symptoms from the dental work?

[thelegend]

On 9/18/2019 at 11:48 PM, Dejavu said:

How are you doing TL? Any uptick in symptoms from the dental work?

 

Thanks so much for checking on me! I don’t think so, Tuesday and Thursday were manageable days this week (I would t call them windows). Today has been a really tough slog from 1st thing this morning with anxiety, akathisia, IBS, and burning arms (a symptom that was gone for a month or so, but is now off and on). Now 4M and hasn’t been much of a let up. I think I am seeing more manageable times, but the bad times are still bad as ever unfortunately. 

[Rosetta]

Hi, thelegend,

 

I'm sorry to see you have been caught up in this disaster, too.  I can't read well enough right now to understand your medication, but you are on 50 mg of Zoloft trying to stabilize from a CT of 5 mg of Lexapro in February of 2019?  And you started the Zoloft in May?  

 

I'm glad to see you are getting some easier days.  You will stabilize eventually.  The key is to avoid as many changes as you can.  For some people certain changes are unavoidable, but you seem to be doing all right overall and getting some easier days.  be very, very strict about taking your medication every day at the same time.  That is extremely important.  I had no idea that was so important, and my failure to do that is what brought me here.  All the problems that I had from missing doses caused the doctor to keep increasing the dose.  Never, ever was there any discussion about the consistent dosing.  With cigarettes people get cravings.  Not so with these drugs.  The effect of withdrawal is not immediate for most people or at least they have no idea that what they are experiencing are symptoms of withdrawal.  Every time a dose is missed withdrawal gets worse.  Stabilization comes from recognizing that your body is dependent on that dose when it is needed every, single day.  The misery we would have been able to avoid if doctors took these drugs seriously as addictive substances that require very, very strict adherence to a schedule.  For one thing they would not be prescribed, but for those who are all ready suffering withdrawal an acceptance that there is a severe dependence and it just be respected would go a long way to letting people get their lives back.  "No more CTs" would be on my sign if I were to march in a protest!!

 

You are going to make it through this.  Hang in there!

 

Rosetta

 

Rosetta

 

 

[thelegend]

Thanks @Rosetta for you post and kind words. I hope your right and that I will be able to stabilize. Last couple of days have been really tough. 

[thelegend]

I am really interested in this @brassmonkey slide I have been reading about as when I am ready to taper I think as gradual as possible is the way to go. Seems every time I have made any kind of change in this ordeal, I have gotten much worse, so I am for sure a little scared to taper and this slide seems like the way to go. Anyone with any info on this and what differences you can expect to feel using this method as opposed to the standard 10% rule?

[brassmonkey]

I highly recommend it. We have a good number of members including several of the moderators doing some version of it with great success.  It's entire purpose is to reduce the symptom load while maintaining a fairly rapid taper.  In it's original version a person would reduce by 2.5% a week for four weeks and then hold an additional two weeks.  This gives a total reduction of 10% every six weeks.  A bit longer than the recommended 10% every four weeks that we recommend as a baseline taper.  The thing is the baseline taper can be to harsh for many people and they end up going a lot slower.  If you do a 10% drop then there will be a big surge of symptoms a few days later that will take several weeks to resolve and settle back to your normal state.  With the Brassmonkey slide those symptoms are spread out over four weeks so they don't hit nearly as hard.  Then two additional weeks are used to help let things settle out before doing it all again.

 

Almost every one who has tried doing the slide method has reported a greatly reduced symptom load.  There have been a few for which the 2.5% a week was too much and they have opted for a lesser amount generally 1.25% and in some cases less.  Once the proper dosing was worked out things seem to be going smoothly.  The thing to remember is that every time you cut the dose in half you double the length of time it takes to complete the taper.  That length of time is something that shocks most people, as it can seem like it's very long.  The half life of an original Brassmonkey Slide is nine months. So if you are starting at 50mgai in nine months you will be at 25mgai and in a year and a half at 12.5mgai.  I tapered from 40mgai and it took me five and a half years to get to "0".  Starting at 50mgai you'd be looking at about the same time frame.

 

This isn't to say that you are looking at five plus years of acute symptoms.  Far from it.  As the drug load decreases and the body heals the symptom load decreases also.  There are usually some bumps along the way that can be seen as very frustrating, but they do resolve and often leave a person feeling better than before they hit.  For me the first several years of my taper were pretty tough as I was in severe poopout.  Once that resolved there was steady improvement month after month.  By the time I was ready to make the jump to "0" I was relatively symptom free.

 

Hopefully some more of our members will weigh in as I know there are some good stories out there.

 

 

[thelegend]

Thanks @brassmonkey, does it confuse things that I am on two meds? I think the slide seems like the right approach to me. Should I be concerned that I am almost 5 months from reinstatement and nowhere near stable? Is it common for it to take this long?

[brassmonkey]

As long as you taper only one medication at a time there should not be a problem.

 

Reinstatement is such a tricky and personal thing it's hard to put a schedule on it.  In general five months is not uncommon for reinstatement to take effect.  I would not get discouraged if it took several more months to settle down.

[thelegend]

52 minutes ago, brassmonkey said:

As long as you taper only one medication at a time there should not be a problem.

 

Reinstatement is such a tricky and personal thing it's hard to put a schedule on it.  In general five months is not uncommon for reinstatement to take effect.  I would not get discouraged if it took several more months to settle down.

 

Sounds good, I will try not to get discouraged by the timeline. What do you make of the fact that I get so much better on vacation? Is that common or something you have seen before?

[Cocopuffz17]

5 minutes ago, thelegend said:

 

Sounds good, I will try not to get discouraged by the timeline. What do you make of the fact that I get so much better on vacation? Is that common or something you have seen before?

I’m curious if your sun exposure is way higher on vacation? Vitamin D IMO is huge. 

[thelegend]

@Cocopuffz17 - no real difference in sun exposure. They were mountain vacations, not beach vacations.

[Cocopuffz17]

7 minutes ago, thelegend said:

@Cocopuffz17 - no real difference in sun exposure. They were mountain vacations, not beach vacations.

Interesting, higher altitudes give you more exposure to the sun. The closer you are the more vitamin d you produce in the same exposure time. I’d be very curious on that. Also a reduction in stress could also be why. 

[brassmonkey]

It's something that several of our members have mentioned.  I think it has more to do with a break in routine and a change of scenery than anything else. Sort of the ultimate distraction.  There are some aspects of sub conscience self hypnosis that are involved.  Let's say you've been having heavy anxiety in the afternoons and evenings for several weeks and have sort of resigned yourself to it happening.  But today you've felt good all day and are all set to watch your favorite tv show. Just before the show starts you happen to glance at the clock beside the tv set. The glance is so quick you don't even remember it happening.  It's 8 pm, the middle of the evening.  Your sub conscience mind goes, "Oh no, I've been feeling great all day, but now its evening and I always feel bad in the evening".  So much for enjoying your tv show because with in a few minutes the anxiety hits like a ton of bricks.  These sorts of triggers are all around us and can play a big part in recurring and on going symptom patterns.  Go on vacation and you remove those triggers, come home again and there they are, just waiting for you. The same thing happens with day to day stress patterns caused by work, commuting, neighbors dogs barking and the like.  it's no wonder going on vacation is referred to as "getting away from it all".

[thelegend]

Been a while since I posted. I thought I was doing a bit better though it was very up and down, but the last couple of days feel right back to the beginning of my reinstatement. Seems some things have gotten better: burning eyes and arms, IBS, but man the anxiety the last few days has been unrelenting. 5 months now into my hold, hoping for some lasting improvements.

[RachelSusan]

Hi Legend,

 

Sorry to hear you are having some bad days. It does sound like you had some good days in there prior to this.  I would consider this an improvement since when you started you had nothing but bad days. Anxiety does indeed stink. 

 

Are you avoiding all caffeine including energy drinks? What about life stress, are you able to keep that to a minimum while you are going through this? I know it 's hard when one has a family but whatever you can do for yourself would be a good thing. Other than than I don't have a lot to suggest.

 

I know you are having a hard time of it but it does appear to me that you are improving.  Frustrating, I know. I hope you get another window again soon.

 

Warm wishes.

 

 

[lexapoison]

Legend. It sounds like you were doing better which is awesome. I’m sure this is just a little step back and you’ll be back better than ever very soon. Pretty sure windows and waves in reinstatement is completely normal and you’re probably just in a wave right before a big window! Hang in there!

[thelegend]

19 hours ago, RachelSusan said:

Hi Legend,

 

Sorry to hear you are having some bad days. It does sound like you had some good days in there prior to this.  I would consider this an improvement since when you started you had nothing but bad days. Anxiety does indeed stink. 

 

Are you avoiding all caffeine including energy drinks? What about life stress, are you able to keep that to a minimum while you are going through this? I know it 's hard when one has a family but whatever you can do for yourself would be a good thing. Other than than I don't have a lot to suggest.

 

I know you are having a hard time of it but it does appear to me that you are improving.  Frustrating, I know. I hope you get another window again soon.

 

Warm wishes.

 

 

 

 

Thanks Rachel, yes avoiding caffeine other than an occasional Diet Mt Dew! Maybe it is getting better, when I have a day as bad as yesterday it feels I am stuck and will never get better. I do think I am maybe getting more good times, but the bad times feel as bad as ever. I have dropped some of those physical symptoms so hopefully that is a good sign. I just wish I knew it would for sure get better after all this time.

[Giulietta]

Hello T.L.

 

Welcome, hello and hope you and your family are enjoyiing the new puppy and he/she you.   

 

I'm sorry about the persistent waves (and glad you have windows which there are a few more of now?).  The many symptoms and patterns you have described are much like mine. I'm just a civilian here - but after a huge drop in my dose in December - following a reinstatement after a CT - I went through months of anxiety, panic, jitteriness, just hell. I had 1-2 months where I had a lot of good days. Then - I was hit with 2 nasty weeks. I thought I had fallen off the trolley. Recovered. 2.5 months they come back to roost for 10 days off and on. Seems to be a pattern that I see with other folks. Symptoms range the gamut - pins and needles, brain zaps, incapacitating dizziness and blurry vision, trouble typing, etc.

 

Well - could go on. I've seen a gradual improvement - since the major drop off in dosage in December.  It takes a while to stabilize - I held for 2.5 months before having the courage to make a little cut.

 

Stress - whether a social outing or other - is a trigger for a wave even if brief. Otherwise, waves can come and go as they please.

 

Well - just a quick hello. Ping me any time. Yes - we're all survivors here. And we're going to free ourselves from these damn drugs. Even it takes longer than we'd like - we'll eventually get there.  

 

G.