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Lookinup's intro: please help

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Lookinup
7 minutes ago, Lookinup said:

3;30 woke up from “Ambien” sleep.  Horrible sleep on Ambien.  Lucky if I can get back to sleep

6:00 Took thyroid med

8:00 Took Prozac

9:00 to about 12:00 brain fog

10:00 Took Propanolol

12:00 to about 4:30 p.m. On and on  panic like anxiety

 

Need to get better sleep!

Also, twitching periodically throughout day.  

Exhausted, but worried that Prozac is stimulating and causing stimulation.

Not touching Klonopin dose for now.  Wondering about spreading out dose into three times instead on night?

Working on getting thyroid levels with new med leveled—crucial since I have had thyroid removed.

Any suggestions on what I can do for now would be greatly appreciated.   Is this still Remeron w/d?? 

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Lookinup
3 minutes ago, Lookinup said:

Any suggestions on what I can do for now would be greatly appreciated.   Is this still Remeron w/d?? 

It has been very difficult for me to try to manage this on my own. My husband tries to be supportive and reads material I give him from Altostrata, but he also doesn’t get that doctors don’t know what they are doing when it comes to this.   All of my doctors have ill informed me and caused problems I didn’t need to have — fast taper, addition of Prozac, Ambien.  I am grateful to have found this site, but I wish it had been earlier.  I feel so alone in this.  I sometimes become overwhelmed and think my life is ruined forever.  I have so much to live for and pray all the time that there can be a good turnaround of my situation.  Thank you for your help!!!   So glad I arrived here, finally! 

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Lookinup

I will post the rest of the day later.  I take these drugs on a regular schedule except for Propanolol, which I take when needed.

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Altostrata

Please include drug dosage in your daily notes.

 

Do you get brain fog before you take Prozac or does it start afterward? I need to see more daily notes like you did today.

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Lookinup

6:00 p.m. twitching. . .

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Altostrata

At least 24 hours of notes at a time, please.

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Lookinup

Brain fog always in a.m. , the reason I question questioned Prozac.  Still wondering about the Klonopin giving me trouble though.  During my brain fog, I went to a dr. Appt. to see a psy. I contacted after seeing his blog on Mad in America.  After driving  a hour away, I saw a message that he had to cancel!  He is a good resource for future plans and wanted to get to know him.  Stressful discussion about all of this with my husband.  He was with me.  He is right in that my number one goal is getting thyroid under control.  He feels if I am worried about Klonopin withdrawals I should be taking a little more to help with that. Updosing is not sometime I want to do, but he might be right about that too.  For awhile afterwards, I feared ending up on a psy. floor.  My daughter, a nurse, tells me I sound like a crazy person saying I am suffering from discontinuation from Remeron since it is out of my system!  It is very challenging feeling lousy and having to keep defending my position from this perspective.  Sorry for the rant.  As I said, I have been trying to manage all of this and find answers since June. 

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Altostrata

I need to see your daily drug schedule and symptom notes before I can make any guesses.

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Lookinup

Drug schedule:

6:00 a.m. Thyroid med

8:00 Prozac

9:30 - Fish Oil capsules/probiotic

Around 10 - Propanolol

Around 4 - Propanolol

Around 7:00 Magnesium

Around 9:00 Propanolol

9:45 - Klonopin .5

11:00 p.m. - Ambien

 

Symptoms:

Brain fog, especially in morning (is that d/p, d/r?)

Extreme anxiety/palpitations, adrenaline surges - sometimes get eye twitch at same time

twitching - usually stopped after Propanolol

tingliing of hands

numbness of soles of feet/sometimes around mouth and lips

Sharp needles in legs sometimes

cold nose

fever blisters/mouth ulcers

sometime sweating at night

Often cannot go back to sleep after Ambien’s programmed wakening - start thinking about all of this!

Exhaused but feel energized 

Cold intolerance

 

 

 

 

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Shep

@Lookinup Instead of listing when you take your drugs and then a narrative of symptoms AFTER the list, please list the symptoms WITHIN the list. Also, we need to have the dosage of your drugs and supplements in your journal.

 

Below is an example of what we need. It's important to know when the symptoms happen within the context of when you take your drugs. You may be dealing with interdose withdrawal from the Ambien and the Klonopin, but without knowing the exact time of your symptoms, it's impossible to say. 

 

On 9/27/2016 at 2:49 PM, Altostrata said:

Example:


DATE:

 

6 a.m. Woke with anxiety
8 a.m. Took 2.5mg Lexapro
10 a.m. Stomach is upset
10:30 a.m. Ate breakfast
11:35 a.m. Got a headache, lasted one hour
12:35 p.m. Ate lunch
4 p.m. Feel a bit better
5 p.m. Took 2.5mg Lexapro
6 p.m. Ate dinner
9:20 p.m. Headache
10:00 p.m. Took 50mg Seroquel
10:20 p.m. Feeling dizzy
10:30 p.m. Fell asleep
2:30 a.m. Woke, took 3mg Ambien (NOT "took 1/2 tablet Ambien")
2:45 a.m. Fell asleep
4:30 a.m. Woke but got back to sleep

 

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Lookinup
13 hours ago, Shep said:

@Lookinup Instead of listing when you take your drugs and then a narrative of symptoms AFTER the list, please list the symptoms WITHIN the list. Also, we need to have the dosage of your drugs and supplements in your journal.

 

Below is an example of what we need. It's important to know when the symptoms happen within the context of when you take your drugs. You may be dealing with interdose withdrawal from the Ambien and the Klonopin, but without knowing the exact time of your symptoms, it's impossible to say. 

 

 

13 hours ago, Shep said:

@Lookinup Instead of listing when you take your drugs and then a narrative of symptoms AFTER the list, please list the symptoms WITHIN the list. Also, we need to have the dosage of your drugs and supplements in your journal.

 

Below is an example of what we need. It's important to know when the symptoms happen within the context of when you take your drugs. You may be dealing with interdose withdrawal from the Ambien and the Klonopin, but without knowing the exact time of your symptoms, it's impossible to say. 

 

Went through whole day and lost it!  Here goes again:

 

5:00 Awoke from broken sleep

6 a.m took .88 thyroid med (Tirosent)

6:30 felt twitching, tingling/numbness in foot

7:30 Ate breakfast

8:00 Took 5 mgProzac

8:30 twitching

9:00 took 10 mg propanolol

10-12 - shopping at Costcos -  Brain Fog, runny nose and fullness in ear

12:00 Lunch

1:00 twitching, increasing HR - took propanolol

2:00 - 3:30  SomeBrain Fog

4:00 - 5:30 anxiety - Anxiety, twitching - Took 10 mg. propanolol

6:30 dinner

7:00 some twitching continued

Want to send this then continue the rest of the day on a new page. Don’t want to lose it again.  Looking over this myself, I would have to say you and Altostrata will have a good hunch as to what is going on with me.  Thank you so much for being there to advise me.  Don’t know where I would be without you.

 

 

 

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Shep
On 10/29/2019 at 6:57 PM, Lookinup said:

Drug schedule:

6:00 a.m. Thyroid med

8:00 Prozac

9:30 - Fish Oil capsules/probiotic

Around 10 - Propanolol

Around 4 - Propanolol

Around 7:00 Magnesium

Around 9:00 Propanolol

9:45 - Klonopin .5

11:00 p.m. - Ambien

 

10 hours ago, Lookinup said:

5:00 Awoke from broken sleep

6 a.m took .88 thyroid med (Tirosent)

6:30 felt twitching, tingling/numbness in foot

7:30 Ate breakfast

8:00 Took 5 mgProzac

8:30 twitching

9:00 took 10 mg propanolol

10-12 - shopping at Costcos -  Brain Fog, runny nose and fullness in ear

12:00 Lunch

1:00 twitching, increasing HR - took propanolol

2:00 - 3:30  SomeBrain Fog

4:00 - 5:30 anxiety - Anxiety, twitching - Took 10 mg. propanolol

6:30 dinner

7:00 some twitching continued

 

 

The first thing I would recommend doing is setting up a consistent schedule for taking the Propranolol - take it at the same times of the day every day. The more consistent your dosing, the gentler it is on your nervous system. 

 

A request - when doing a drug and symptoms journal, please include AM or PM. Also, we need to see 24 hours of notes at a time. You can take notes on paper or a Word doc throughout the day and then post it here at one time. 

Edited by Shep
added info

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Lookinup
10 hours ago, Lookinup said:

 

Went through whole day and lost it!  Here goes again:

 

5:00 a.m. Awoke from broken sleep

6 a.m took .88 thyroid med (Tirosent)

6:30 a.m.felt twitching, tingling/numbness in foot

7:30 a.m.Ate breakfast

8:00 a.m.Took 5 mgProzac

8:30 a.m.twitching

9:00 a.m.took 10 mg propanolol

10-12 - shopping at Costcos -  Brain Fog, runny nose and fullness in ear

12:00 p.m.Lunch

1:00 p.m.twitching, increasing HR - took propanolol

2:00 - 3:30  p.m.SomeBrain Fog

4:00 - 5:30 p.m.anxiety - Anxiety, twitching - Took 10 mg. propanolol

6:30 p.m.dinner

7:00 p.m.some twitching continued

Want to send this then continue the rest of the day on a new page. Don’t want to lose it again.  Looking over this myself, I would have to say you and Altostrata will have a good hunch as to what is going on with me.  Thank you so much for being there to advise me.  Don’t know where I would be without you.

 

 

 

Twitching feels like little tremors in various ares, not in same spots.

8-9:45  p.m.Twitching continued along with sharp pins in hands.

9:45. P.m.Took .5 Klonopin. Stopped twitching.  

10:15 p.m.Twitching started up again.,

10:30 p.m.tood Propanolol

11:00 p.m.Took Ambien, increased HR

5:30 a.m. Woke with twitching.

 

I have a feeling this is definitively Klonopin/Ambien related.  Is it interdose withdrawal?  I lost another pound in a day and am terribly distressed. Looking forward to hearing from you.  Thank you very much!!!!  Altostrata is right, need to get thyroid under control.  How do I stabilize this in the meantime?

 ˘

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Lookinup

Hi Shep,

I do take the Propanolol on a  pretty regular schedule, every 5 hours.  I really feel like i am experiencing acute withdrawal. Cannot wait to hear for advice.

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Shep
9 minutes ago, Lookinup said:

I do take the Propanolol on a  pretty regular schedule, every 5 hours.  

 

Yes, but it needs to be the same time each day, not just 5 hours apart. And it's not even 5 hours apart. 

 

One day you took it at 10 am, 4 pm, and 9 pm and the next day at 9 am, 1 pm, and 4 pm. 

 

17 minutes ago, Lookinup said:

10:30 p.m.tood Propanolol

 

And you just added this in as a continuation from your previous post with your daily notes. So this would have been a 4th dose of Propanolol, compared to only taking it three times the previous day. 

 

Please post 24 hours of notes at one time. Having it in multiple segments makes it very confusing.

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Lookinup

Yes, I continued.  Don’t know how to cut and paste.  I am trying and not feeling well.  And yes, that is fourth dose of .10 propanolol.  Thank you for sticking with me, Shep.  I hope to find some direction..

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Shep

Please pick 3 times a day to take the Propanolol and stick to those times religiously. If you have symptoms in between doses, here are some ways of coping:

 

Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms

 

Dealing With Emotional Spirals

 

"Change the channel" -- dealing with cognitive symptoms

 

You may find guided meditations or breathing meditations very helpful. Here's an example:

 

The Breathing Space by Jon Kabat Zinn video (4 minutes)

 

Dr. Claire Weekes also has some great techniques:

 

Dr. Claire Weekes - How To Recover

 

 

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Lookinup

Ok, I will.  In the meantime, if I am in interdose withddrawal, as I think I am, should I be updosing a bit and taking Klonopin more than once a day?  I really think I am in acute withddrawal and cannot taper now. 

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Lookinup

Shep,

My husband is giving me a hard time about being on “blogs” and not listening to doctors.  I am scared I will be on a psy floor soon and given drugs.  I know I am in withdrawal and now question whether it is from Remeron or has bee Klonopin all along since my dose was probably very much affected by discontinuing Remeron with little tapering and then the Ambien piled on top.  Really need to know how to handle this on my own before I don’t have that choice anymore.  If that means interdosing, I will do it! Just need to know.

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Lookinup

Husband has become more understanding about what is going on and why I am resisting medical attention for my symptoms.  It is hard for people to get that.  Earlier, if it were up to him, we would have gone to E.R.  Interesting to think of what they would have done for twitching, feeling of needles being stabbed at legs, etc.    I would appreciate input from anyone who may be able to give direction about interdose withdrawal.  I am not sure whether to split up my Klonopin in two more doses in the day instead of all at night.  Also, do I updose a bit?  Thank you very much!

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Lookinup

Hello,

I have a good feeling that I have been experiencing symptoms related to interdose withdrawal of Klonopin.  I have taken .5 for a long time only at night time.  Now that my symptoms persist all day—twitching, pins and needles, brain fog,, anxiety,  I wonder if I should separate the dose into a few doses a day.  Hate the thoughts of updosing because the goal is to get off, but I need to stabilize as I have other medical concerns going on.  Thank you for any help you can give.  Cannot taper this drug right now.  The 7.5 Ambien take for sleep is most likely complicating the picture too!

Lookinup

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Lookinup

Sometimes wonder whether the Ambien should be crossed over to Klonopin then  taper from there when ready.  I don’t know anything about this and at my wits end.  Of course family members wonder why I can’t ask doctors!!! Finally they are supporting my efforts on this site.

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Altostrata

Please post questions about your situation here, in your Intro topic. Do not start additional Intro topics, there's only one per member.

 

On 10/29/2019 at 2:53 PM, Altostrata said:

Do you get brain fog before you take Prozac or does it start afterward? I need to see more daily notes like you did today.

 

Please answer this question.

 

8 hours ago, Lookinup said:

10:30 p.m.tood Propanolol

11:00 p.m.Took Ambien, increased HR

 

Do you always take propanolol and Ambien at these times, do you always get increased HR afterward?

 

We need to see your daily symptom pattern to identify possible Klonopin or Ambien adverse effects or interdose withdrawal.

 

As @Shep requested, you need to get settled on your drug schedule so we can see your symptom pattern clearly.

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Lookinup

Propanolol 3 to 4 times a day.  Usually close to same time.  I take it when I feel huge adrenaline surge with increased heart rate coming on,.  Does Propanolol have its own dependency and cause symptoms too?  No, didn’t used to get increased HR to Ambien.  Just noticed that a few nights ago.  I put up 24 hours of symptoms yesterday.  Was hoping to know whether to try separating the dose of Klonopin instead of taking it all at night or does that involve updosing.  I have read about meds becoming paradoxical too.  So frustrating . . .  Have to get thyroid levels balanced, so no tapering, as you said for now.  This is the only place I can go to for help.  Not consulting any doctors unless directed by you..

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Altostrata

Propanolol lowers heart rate. If you take it regularly, you may get rebound heart rate increase when it wears off (half-life 3-6 hours). This is what seems to be happening when you feel you "need" to take a dose.

 

We need to see your drug schedule !!!!!!!!!!!

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Lookinup
16 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

Propanolol lowers heart rate. If you take it regularly, you may get rebound heart rate increase when it wears off (half-life 3-6 hours). This is what seems to be happening when you feel you "need" to take a dose.

 

We need to see your drug schedule !!!!!!!!!!!

6:00 am thyroid meds (tirosent .88)

8:00 am Prozac 5 mg

10:00 propanolol  10 mg

3:00 pm propanolol 10 mg

8:00 propanolol 10 mg

9:45 pm klonopin .5 mg

11:00 Ambien 7.5 mg

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Lookinup

Any ideas about what my symptoms suggest?   Particularly concerned about the numbness.  

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Altostrata

We also need to see your symptom pattern. As requested several times, please post at least 24 hours of drug schedule and symptom notes in this format:

 

On 10/30/2019 at 3:05 AM, Shep said:

6 a.m. Woke with anxiety
8 a.m. Took 2.5mg Lexapro
10 a.m. Stomach is upset
10:30 a.m. Ate breakfast
11:35 a.m. Got a headache, lasted one hour
12:35 p.m. Ate lunch
4 p.m. Feel a bit better
5 p.m. Took 2.5mg Lexapro
6 p.m. Ate dinner
9:20 p.m. Headache
10:00 p.m. Took 50mg Seroquel
10:20 p.m. Feeling dizzy
10:30 p.m. Fell asleep
2:30 a.m. Woke, took 3mg Ambien (NOT "took 1/2 tablet Ambien")
2:45 a.m. Fell asleep
4:30 a.m. Woke but got back to sleep

 

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Lookinup
11 hours ago, Lookinup said:

Twitching feels like little tremors in various ares, not in same spots.

8-9:45  p.m.Twitching continued along with sharp pins in hands.

9:45. P.m.Took .5 Klonopin. Stopped twitching.  

10:15 p.m.Twitching started up again.,

10:30 p.m.tood Propanolol

11:00 p.m.Took Ambien, increased HR

5:30 a.m. Woke with twitching.

 

I have a feeling this is definitively Klonopin/Ambien related.  Is it interdose withdrawal?  I lost another pound in a day and am terribly distressed. Looking forward to hearing from you.  Thank you very much!!!!  Altostrata is right, need to get thyroid under control.  How do I stabilize this in the meantime?

 ˘

 

35 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

We also need to see your symptom pattern. As requested several times, please post at least 24 hours of drug schedule and symptom notes in this format:

 

 

Here is 1/2 of the 24 hr. Symptoms

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Lookinup
11 hours ago, Lookinup said:

Twitching feels like little tremors in various ares, not in same spots.

8-9:45  p.m.Twitching continued along with sharp pins in hands.

9:45. P.m.Took .5 Klonopin. Stopped twitching.  

10:15 p.m.Twitching started up again.,

10:30 p.m.tood Propanolol

11:00 p.m.Took Ambien, increased HR

5:30 a.m. Woke with twitching.

 

I have a feeling this is definitively Klonopin/Ambien related.  Is it interdose withdrawal?  I lost another pound in a day and am terribly distressed. Looking forward to hearing from you.  Thank you very much!!!!  Altostrata is right, need to get thyroid under control.  How do I stabilize this in the meantime?

 ˘

Here’s the rest of it.  This was from yesterday morning to this morning.

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Altostrata
11 hours ago, Lookinup said:

Twitching feels like little tremors in various ares, not in same spots.

 

Please explain more what "little tremors" means.

 

24 hours at a time means 24 hours at a time, in ONE POST. Did nothing happen between 5:30 a.m. and 8-9:45  p.m.? How about your Prozac dose and symptoms afterward?

 

We have asked for this information repeatedly because we cannot answer your questions without it.

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Lookinup
12 hours ago, Lookinup said:

Twitching feels like little tremors in various ares, not in same spots.

8-9:45  p.m.Twitching continued along with sharp pins in hands.

9:45. P.m.Took .5 Klonopin. Stopped twitching.  

10:15 p.m.Twitching started up again.,

10:30 p.m.tood Propanolol

11:00 p.m.Took Ambien, increased HR

5:30 a.m. Woke with twitching.

 

I have a feeling this is definitively Klonopin/Ambien related.  Is it interdose withdrawal?  I lost another pound in a day and am terribly distressed. Looking forward to hearing from you.  Thank you very much!!!!  Altostrata is right, need to get thyroid under control.  How do I stabilize this in the meantime?

 ˘

 

48 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

 

Please explain more what "little tremors" means.

 

24 hours at a time means 24 hours at a time, in ONE POST. Did nothing happen between 5:30 a.m. and 8-9:45  p.m.? How about your Prozac dose and symptoms afterward?

 

We have asked for this information repeatedly because we cannot answer your questions without it.

I’m sorry.  Yes, that time frame does appear in the thread above the one you saw. I cannot quote and repost for some reason.   It is there.  Prozac symptoms do not appear immediately.  Not sure if the brain fog is related. I commented on all times and events as best I could.

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Lookinup
Just now, Lookinup said:

 

I’m sorry.  Yes, that time frame does appear in the thread above the one you saw. I cannot quote and repost for some reason.   It is there.  Prozac symptoms do not appear immediately.  Not sure if the brain fog is related. I commented on all times and events as best I could.

I realize I hit the report post option.  Would it be deleted?  Can you find it in report posts??  I apologize.  Spent a lot of time on that.  It was in two parts because I did half before bed and the other half after.  

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Lookinup
55 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

 

Please explain more what "little tremors" means.

 

24 hours at a time means 24 hours at a time, in ONE POST. Did nothing happen between 5:30 a.m. and 8-9:45  p.m.? How about your Prozac dose and symptoms afterward?

 

We have asked for this information repeatedly because we cannot answer your questions without it.

Little tremors means no large muscle movements, just small twitches.

1 hour ago, Lookinup said:

 

Here is 1/2 of the 24 hr. Symptoms

Thought I posted it, but sent it in report posts.

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Altostrata

Here is your post from Wednesday afternoon, is that the one you're looking for? What day does this refer to? Was it Tuesday?

 

23 hours ago, Lookinup said:

5:00 Awoke from broken sleep

6 a.m took .88 thyroid med (Tirosent)

6:30 felt twitching, tingling/numbness in foot

7:30 Ate breakfast

8:00 Took 5 mgProzac

8:30 twitching

9:00 took 10 mg propanolol

10-12 - shopping at Costcos -  Brain Fog, runny nose and fullness in ear

12:00 Lunch

1:00 twitching, increasing HR - took propanolol

2:00 - 3:30  SomeBrain Fog

4:00 - 5:30 anxiety - Anxiety, twitching - Took 10 mg. propanolol

6:30 dinner

7:00 some twitching continued

 

What are your notes for all of Wednesday?

 

Still not clear what "twitches" means. Are they painful? Tremors would be shakes. Twitches are little jumps. In what part of your body do they occur? Is this your most troublesome symptom? Why is it troublesome?

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Lookinup
31 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

Here is your post from Wednesday afternoon, is that the one you're looking for? What day does this refer to? Was it Tuesday?

 

 

What are your notes for all of Wednesday?

 

Still not clear what "twitches" means. Are they painful? Tremors would be shakes. Twitches are little jumps. In what part of your body do they occur? Is this your most troublesome symptom? Why is it troublesome?

Little shakes, feels like twitches. Maybe little shakes. They are not painful and appear all over — legs, back, buttocks.  It is uncomfortable.  My most troublesome symptom is the brain fog and extreme anxiety (like living in a panic attack).  The rest of the notes are above—from Wed. A.m to this morning (Thurs.).  Thank you for your help.

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