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Lookinup's intro: please help

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Lookinup

Thank you, Shep. That is very helpful for getting started!

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Lookinup

Hi Shep, one more question.  Psy writing for 5mg = 5 ml solution. How do I figure that in terms of 2.19 mg.  Do I just fill syringe to that ml level?  Sorry, this is my first experience with this. With time, I’m sure I will catch on.  Thank you.

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Lookinup

Oh, I finally get it. Since it is 1:1, the amount in ml is the same as mg., right?

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brassmonkey

Yes, that is correct. 1mg of active ingredient (mgai) will be equal to 1mL of liquid. If you are trying to get a dose of 2.19mgai then you would take 2.19 (2.2) mL of liquid.

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Lookinup

Thank you brassmonkey. That makes things so much easier! I appreciate all your work on this method of tapering. My psy. Loves the idea of the 2 week break and divided doses.  I am using an iPad and cannot open the spread sheet.  Will try on a laptop.  Thanks again!

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brassmonkey
Posted (edited)

Be careful, one of the spreadsheets isn't working correctly, I'm in the process of correcting it. It's called the "standard spread sheet" and there are four different ones combined in one xcel document on the link.The dose calculations are working fine, it's the dates that are the problem.  It should be fixed in a couple of days.

Edited by brassmonkey

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Lookinup

Thanks for your direction, Brassmonkey!

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Lookinup

Hi Shep, This might be a dumb questions, but when each subsequent weekly reduction of 25% is calculated, is it based on the previous week’s s dosage after 25% reduction and not the whole 1.25% (10% for month)?  Thank you.

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Shep

That's not a dumb question at all, Lookinup. We can walk through the steps for the first two months:

 

This month's reduction is 1.25 mg (reduced by .3125 mg each week for 4 weeks - written out in this post here).  You'll then be on a total daily dose of 11.25 mg. 

 

After at least a 2 week hold, you'll then reduce by 10% of 11.25, which is 1.125 mg, (reduced by .2813 mg each week for 4 weeks).

 

Or you can reduce by less than 10% if you're having symptoms. Please don't worry about the math until you get there. We'll help you out. 

 

So, no, each subsequent reduction is not based on the previous week's dose. Instead, you reduce by 10% of the previous month's dose and divide by 4 equal weekly reductions. 

 

Does this answer your question? 

 

I also wanted to mention with your ratio of 5 mg 5 mL of prescription liquid Valium, you can always place the liquid Valium in water to dilute it in order to make smaller reductions. Please post if you need more information about that. 

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Lookinup

Thanks for such a great explanation and your help through the first months of this.  I will start within a few days.  I feel like I am still getting effects from Remeron, discontinuing it, having a horrific withdrawal, then having it shoved at me at the same dose 9 months later.  So it will be a little hard to discern which symptoms belong to what.  

 

Also, about diluting with water, I never really understood that. I will use a one millliter syringe for the reduced dose and the pills for the rest for now until the first one is gone.  Hope that is right.

 

Thanks so much, Shep!

 

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Lookinup

Shep,

I’d like to get started on Valium taper today.  Is it ok though if I aM feeling w/d (tingling hands, nausea from time to time) from Remeron? 

I need to feel like I a doing something to move towards my goal.  Feeling stuck right now!

Thank you.

Lookinup

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Shep

Here is a good guide to go by for deciding when it's time to taper:

 

Withdrawal Normal

 

How is your sleep? 

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Lookinup

Hi Shep, My sleep is fine because I am knocked out with Seroquel and Remeron, if that is working at all.  I just don’t get it.  Have not felt normal since Remeron jump exactly a year ago, but I also suffered benzo crash with Klonopin/Ambien and rehab and crossing over to Librium, then Valium, adding Seroquel and Remeron back in the mix.  Ugh!  I am doing my best to eat well and try not to stress over things, but I would like to get started on whatever my problem is.  The paradoxical effect can’t be good, but do you think it could be Remeron side effects as well.  I will read over Withdrawal Normal.  Thanks for getting back to me today.

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Shep
6 minutes ago, Lookinup said:

The paradoxical effect can’t be good, but do you think it could be Remeron side effects as well.

 

Remeron has a half-life of 20 - 40 hours, so it could be part of the problem, as well. So reducing the Valium may very well help with reducing the paradoxical effect that's created by the combination of these drugs, since Remeron is still in your system when you take the morning Valium. 

 

Let us know how you do. 

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Lookinup

Great post from Brassmonkey.  I guess I am expecting to feel like the old “me.”   Not good, but not crappy, I guess is a starting place. I am most bothered today by tingling of hands, loud stomach noises and continued reaction to Valium.  

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Lookinup
2 minutes ago, Shep said:

 

Remeron has a half-life of 20 - 40 hours, so it could be part of the problem, as well. So reducing the Valium may very well help with reducing the paradoxical effect that's created by the combination of these drugs, since Remeron is still in your system when you take the morning Valium. 

 

Let us know how you do. 

That’s interesting.  Haven’t started yet because I’ve been waiting to feel better.  

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Shep

If it's a paradoxical reaction from the combination of sedating drugs - or even from too high a dose from just one drug - you won't feel better until the dose is reduced. 

 

If you don't want to reduce by 10%, you could reduce by 3% or 5% to test the waters. 

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Lookinup
1 minute ago, Shep said:

If it's a paradoxical reaction from the combination of sedating drugs - or even from too high a dose from just one drug - you won't feel better until the dose is reduced. 

 

If you don't want to reduce by 10%, you could reduce by 3% or 5% to test the waters. 

So sometimes you feel better from reducing?  True, I could start with 5% and see how it goes.  Thanks!

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Lookinup

Shep, I’m doing notes again.

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Lookinup

Saturday, May 30

 

6:00 p.m.dinner - very runny nose

7:30 P.m.Abdominal pain

8:00 p.m. Valium 7.5 mg - hr increased to 90; some tingling in hands; 

8:30 p.m. tingling sensation in scalp; loud stomach; slight electrical feeling in thigh

6:00 a.m. Woke -  bit nauseous 

6.:30 a.m. Tirosent 88 mg. - no symptoms

7:00 a.m.- fish oil; left hand tingling

8:00 a.m. Prozac .78 ml -

8:30 a.m. Anxiety; hand tingling

9:00 a.m. Valium 2.5 mg

9:30 a.m. Some anxiety; slight nausea

10:00 a.m. continued hand tingling

Note: Felt hand tingling since jumping from Remeron last summer and now taking it again!

12:30 throughout afternoon - slightly nauseas

2:00 p.m. Valium 2.5 mg. - hr increase

3:45 p.m.slight tremor in legs

5:00 brief twitch in arm and knee

Note:  I am so wiped out by all of this worry.   I wish I could just flush these pill down the toilet, then get in bed and hold on tight.

Does it look like I have a double whammy problem—Valium and Remeron?  The ONLY positive thing right now is that I am sleeping.  I couldn’t handle any of this without sleep. Interesting, when I can relax enough, the Valium puts me out then I have to force myself to wake up and take those pills!  To taper 3.75 mg. Remeron at 5% would take years, leaving me still with Valium.  

Here’s a question. My psy who wrote for the liquid Valium said when I finish Valium taper I will go into protracted withdrawals and hard to tell what that will be like. Why does he tell me that??? I wish I could just get on with something and stay in the moment and try to live. Please tell me I will survive all of this!

 

Thank you for all your help. I really don’t know where I would be without you and Altostrata.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Lookinup
3 minutes ago, Lookinup said:

Saturday, May 30

 

6:00 p.m.dinner - very runny nose

7:30 P.m.Abdominal pain

8:00 p.m. Valium 7.5 mg - hr increased to 90; some tingling in hands; 

8:30 p.m. tingling sensation in scalp; loud stomach; slight electrical feeling in thigh

6:00 a.m. Woke -  bit nauseous 

6.:30 a.m. Tirosent 88 mg. - no symptoms

7:00 a.m.- fish oil; left hand tingling

8:00 a.m. Prozac .78 ml -

8:30 a.m. Anxiety; hand tingling

9:00 a.m. Valium 2.5 mg

9:30 a.m. Some anxiety; slight nausea

10:00 a.m. continued hand tingling

Note: Felt hand tingling since jumping from Remeron last summer and now taking it again!

12:30 throughout afternoon - slightly nauseas

2:00 p.m. Valium 2.5 mg. - hr increase

3:45 p.m.slight tremor in legs

5:00 brief twitch in arm and knee

Note:  I am so wiped out by all of this worry.   I wish I could just flush these pill down the toilet, then get in bed and hold on tight.

Does it look like I have a double whammy problem—Valium and Remeron?  The ONLY positive thing right now is that I am sleeping.  I couldn’t handle any of this without sleep. Interesting, when I can relax enough, the Valium puts me out then I have to force myself to wake up and take those pills!  To taper 3.75 mg. Remeron at 5% would take years, leaving me still with Valium.  

Here’s a question. My psy who wrote for the liquid Valium said when I finish Valium taper I will go into protracted withdrawals and hard to tell what that will be like. Why does he tell me that??? I wish I could just get on with something and stay in the moment and try to live. Please tell me I will survive all of this!

 

Thank you for all your help. I really don’t know where I would be without you and Altostrata.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Shep, I am 62. Does that make it harder to get rid of these drugs?  Can you believe this all started from a sleep problem from a hyperactive thyroid and later sleep problem again from my granddaughter being diagnosed with Leukemia.  I just want to cry all the time.  Thank you for understanding and caring.  Oh, getting very loud stomach noises again!

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ChessieCat
On 5/31/2020 at 7:48 AM, Shep said:

If it's a paradoxical reaction from the combination of sedating drugs - or even from too high a dose from just one drug - you won't feel better until the dose is reduced. 

 

If you don't want to reduce by 10%, you could reduce by 3% or 5% to test the waters. 

 

The only way to know if it is a paradoxical reaction is to make a reduction in the dose.  If you make a small reduction to test things out you may not feel improvement, but if you didn't feel any worse that might be sign that you are heading in the right direction by reducing the drug.  You would need to listen to your body.  If you make a small reduction and start to feel improvement you could possibly reduce another small amount after 2 weeks.  After you have confirmed that you are improving from reducing then you could make a larger reduction.

 

In case you don't understand what a paradoxical reaction is, and also for the information of other members who don't know:

 

"A paradoxical reaction or paradoxical effect is an effect of a chemical substance, mostly a medical drug, opposite to the effect which would normally be expected. An example of a paradoxical reaction is pain caused by a pain relief medication." (from wiki)

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Lookinup

Thanks, Shep.  I will try the dose change tomorrow.  Do you think my other symptoms are related to Remeron withdrawal?  A psy told me to taper that first as it is a bigger mountain.  Following the path you and Altostrata lay out for me.

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Lookinup

Oops, Sorry Chessy Cat, though it came from Shep!  Thank you!

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Shep
9 hours ago, Lookinup said:

Do you think my other symptoms are related to Remeron withdrawal?  A psy told me to taper that first as it is a bigger mountain.

 

We're going by your symptoms, especially this one:

 

On 5/21/2020 at 6:22 PM, Lookinup said:

Will post tomorrow. Did.not start reduction of valium today, looking for scale.  What I am definitely noticing is increased heart rate after each dose.  And tingling hands.

 

 

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Lookinup

Hi Shep and Altostrata,

I have to hold a little while right when I was poised to start V taper.   I am getting withdrawal from Mirt. Reinstating months later did not help.  Taking 3.75. So frustrated.  Thanks for your support.

Lookinup

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Lookinup
13 hours ago, Lookinup said:

Hi Shep and Altostrata,

I have to hold a little while right when I was poised to start V taper.   I am getting withdrawal from Mirt. Reinstating months later did not help.  Taking 3.75. So frustrated.  Thanks for your support.

Lookinup

Do you think I should taper this 3.75 mg Mirt? Tingling and numb hands, stomach issues, runny nose . . . Thank you!

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Lookinup

Is it okay to taper Valium feeling this way?  It definitely increases my heart rate. But I think I have a double whammy going on..

 

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Lookinup

Not feeling well at all, each day feeling more and more like I did after Mirt d/c this time last year. 

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Lookinup

Thank you for your continued support.  I am listening to your advice concerning the Valium taper and will try to ignore the other symptoms as I move forward.  Your support is very much appreciated and needed.  

Lookinup

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Shep

Please post a drug and symptoms journal when you start your reduction. That way we can go through it with you. 

 

 

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Lookinup
6 minutes ago, Shep said:

Please post a drug and symptoms journal when you start your reduction. That way we can go through it with you. 

 

 

Yes, I will.  Thank you for sticking with me. 

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Altostrata

Lookinup, please be sure to include ALL YOUR DRUGS  when you post daily symptom notes. You're still taking Remeron and Seroquel, correct? They do not appear in your notes.

 

On 5/31/2020 at 2:41 PM, Lookinup said:

My psy who wrote for the liquid Valium said when I finish Valium taper I will go into protracted withdrawals and hard to tell what that will be like. Why does he tell me that??? 

 

This is a stupid thing to say.

 

We've explained over and over it appears you are having an adverse reaction from TOO MUCH Valium. That is why we suggest you reduce it. Please do not ask us to explain this again.

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Lookinup

You, Shep and Chessiecat have my sincere apologies for overstepping the boundaries of this wonderful forum.  I feel very fortunate to have the support of such knowledgeable and dedicated administrators.  I think my anxiety over all of this is pretty high and I was looking for answers to other symptoms.  I will definitely be doing more of the self-help techniques as Shep suggested moving forward. I completely understand your reasoning for reducing the Valium and started this morning.  Hope to become less tiresome during the day as well. I will post progress as I go through the initial taper. Thank you all for the work you put into helping everyone.  It is a big comfort for people stuck in thie world of withdrawal from psy drugs.  

Respectfully,

Lookinup

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Lookinup

Okay so far three days into V taper of 2.5%. 

Woke last night with fast/pounding heart.

Have appointment with cardiologist Monday.  Had ablation for SVT five years ago and

need to see her for follow up.  Will bring up the increased hr after meds and the meds I am taking. 

Hope the next week is a smooth one.

Thank you for setting me up with the schedule this week.  

And thank you for your ongoing support.  Anything new, I will let you know.

 

 

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Altostrata

Could you please keep this in mind when you report symptoms? We need to see daily notes of times of day you take your drugs, their dosages, and your symptoms throughout the day. Post 24 hours of notes at a time in this topic, in a simple list format with time of day on the left and notation (symptom or drug and dosage) on the right.

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