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Ryguy

Leaky gut or gastroparesis?

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Ryguy

the new fad now in homeopathy and mainstream naturopathy is to assume the gut brain axis can be understood via bacteria dysbiosis and the principles of good vs bad bacteria....its often referred to as "leaky gut" or in actual medical literature as "intestinal permeability" but the more i read the more i am realizing there are no tests being done for this, its mostly speculative, and for people with actual permeability, it can be demonstrated with scans....and is usually caused by something NOT medicine related. so why is my gut in so much pain? why is it that Serotonin drugs cause so much disruption to the gut and we all feel it in withdrawal, for me its been 7 years of pure agony in my gut region and all of us are suffering from food intolerances.....

 

honestly, ive tried every leaky gut protocol in the book, some for months and months, nothings ever worked, and im beginning to suspect the leaky gut thing is complete nonsense for most of us, and that because serotonin is responsible for "gastric emptying" or pushing food down the stomach, perhaps what is happening is that because our receptors have been down regulated, our ability to empty food is disrupted and the vagus nerve is irritated, so there is food build up and intestinal spasms/tightness because of disrupted serotonin.....but this is not where the pain comes in, the pain is coming from other hormonal signals. 

 

usually, in the wild, if we were to feel threatened, our hormonal signals to flee would turn on and everything else in the body would stop working so we could pour resources into running and problem solving for survival, which means digestion turns off, most organs stop doing their job, blood flows differently.....which means adrenaline turns ON and calming hormones like serotonin which empty food turn OFF . so when you artificially turn serotonin signaling OFF , digestion is impaired, and that impairment of digestion is what signals adrenaline to turn ON, its like a feedback loop, one turns the other on....i think most of us have food intolerances because food is simply not digesting right now, which is turning on negative hormones, its those hormones that we are plagued by, not really the digestion.....and what i am reading is people keep saying stay away from foods that cause inflammation.....but thats assuming we have leaky gut......

 

in gastroparesis diet, eating white bread and white rice and things that are extremely simple carbohydrates and simple protein like pure protein powder/chicken breast with no skin or fat is HELPFUL because it gets pushed down the easiest.....and in the leaky gut diet, omega 3 fats are assumed to help, and fibers like inulin etc are prebiotic fibers that help you with inflammation....but if gastroparesis is the real problem, your best bet would be eating white bread/white rice/simple sugars like fruit jelly with no fiber, and liquid protein or skinless chicken breast......i have to believe the leaky gut thing isnt true, since most of us aren't benefitting immensely from it. and have to consider the possibility that the simplest foods (which of course have little nutritional value) are the easiest to digest , and when you calm down gastric emptying perhaps you can start absorbing nutrients again, and contribute to a healthier system. now im not under the impression that the serotonin theory is correct AT ALL, but there are some things that are definitely true, like the 5ht receptor is involved in gastric emptying, and when thats impaired, a cascade of negative hormones are released.....we understand that much at least. i dont know just posing a theory, worth considering 

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Ryguy

im starting a gastroparesis diet for a few months, will let everyone know the results

 

white bread, white rice, chicken breast, liquid protein ENSURE which aids in nutritional deficits , things like this , even fruit jam with no fiber and pectin/table sugar 

 

 

zero fiber, zero fats, lean protein super simple carbs, liquid meals (ensure is great for this because its HIGH protein, zero fat and fiber, its liquid and has tons of nutrients) 

 

lets see what this does for my stomach, if gastric emptying is the real problem, pushing food down faster will contribute to different hormonal responses and my body may adapt to it, rather then slowing down digestion with high fat /fiber foods (which are usually healthy foods like omega 3s, and veggies)

 

ill let you all know how this goes for me.

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Heal95

In withdrawal the usual things to apply I find. I eat a lot of fibre and drink plenty of water but still have constipation. My bowels and the muscles won’t relax and release. 

 

I have lupus and a while back I read that auto immunity was leaky guy. I changed my diet and managed to control the symptoms but I just ate more fruit veg and grains. I never did any leaky gut protocol I just ate whole foods and minimal meat and almost non existent dairy. 

 

While I do believe that disease starts in the gut I don’t believe in the leaky guy theory. These have just been my experiences 

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Heal95

 

I read your intro. I’m really sorry that you are suffering so much. I hope you get better man. I really do. 

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bubbles
9 hours ago, Ryguy said:

zero fiber, zero fats, lean protein super simple carbs, liquid meals (ensure is great for this because its HIGH protein, zero fat and fiber, its liquid and has tons of nutrients) 

 

I'd love to hear how you go. I've been trying to work out my gut issues for a long time with no success. I do know that low fat isn't good for me (higher fat = much better moods) so I won't be trying your diet just now, but I'd love to hear your results.

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Ryguy
13 hours ago, bubbles said:

 

I'd love to hear how you go. I've been trying to work out my gut issues for a long time with no success. I do know that low fat isn't good for me (higher fat = much better moods) so I won't be trying your diet just now, but I'd love to hear your results.

thank you i appreciate your concern, i hope you sort out your gut issues as well, and ill let you know how it goes. omega 3 fats seem to help me (i think), but im never really sure what helps me in the end , the things that DEFINITELY help my energy levels, but they wire me as well, are B vitamins , and some Aminos like (theanine, 5htp, taurine) these things seem to help a lot, which come naturally in high protein foods (except the 5htp) , since i dont want to mess with unnatural things, right now im trying High Protein drinks and meals, with multivitamin, and if i ingest carbs its simple sugars like corn syrup solids in the protein drink or maybe white bread with chicken breast. ill post my results on this thread in the next few months, let me know how your diets go as well :) 

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bubbles
43 minutes ago, Ryguy said:

ill post my results on this thread in the next few months, let me know how your diets go as well :) 

Please do post results. 

 

I'm gearing up for a celiac test so I'm eating loads of bread and pasta. After that I'll be in a better position to try things out. I think a low carb whole food diet with plenty of animal food has been good for me but that eliminates bread and while I'm preparing for the celiac test I need to be eating bread. 

 

I should also say that the low fat comment was in no way a criticism of what you're doing!! I just notice that for me my mood is better when I eat plenty of fat (keto amounts, probably) and while I'm withdrawing I need yo be very careful of my mood. Mood outweighs gut at present.

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Ryguy

It’s been about four days now on that gastroperesis diet and no bueno haha, the white bread and fiberless food has constipated me and also effected my mood negatively , I’m reintroducing some fat based foods, mct oil, more fish, avocado and chia , let’s see if that helps

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KMart95

It's very unlikely it's leaky gut and if it was gastroparesis you wouldn't keep anything down. I think the reason so many of us have stomach problems when we come off these drugs is the serotonin change in the gut. Since most of our serotonin is made there, changes can cause motility to slow down, pains, inflammation, spasms, etc. For me, antidepressants always kept my chronic gut problems at bay. I'd go off and have a slew of problems, go back on and instantly back to normal. The best diet I have found is the specific carbohydrate diet. Basically cutting way back on carbs and sugar, and also reducing fiber because fiber can cause a lot of stomach pain. I've come to learn in withdrawal usually there is no actual medical problem- withdrawal just presents itself in weird ways that look and feel like all kinds of different illnesses. 

 

If food intolerances are a concern you may want to get tested for sibo. If you have an overgrowth of normal gut bacteria where it's not supposed to be (the small intestine) you'll have all the symptoms you describe.

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Ryguy
20 hours ago, KMart95 said:

It's very unlikely it's leaky gut and if it was gastroparesis you wouldn't keep anything down. I think the reason so many of us have stomach problems when we come off these drugs is the serotonin change in the gut. Since most of our serotonin is made there, changes can cause motility to slow down, pains, inflammation, spasms, etc. For me, antidepressants always kept my chronic gut problems at bay. I'd go off and have a slew of problems, go back on and instantly back to normal. The best diet I have found is the specific carbohydrate diet. Basically cutting way back on carbs and sugar, and also reducing fiber because fiber can cause a lot of stomach pain. I've come to learn in withdrawal usually there is no actual medical problem- withdrawal just presents itself in weird ways that look and feel like all kinds of different illnesses. 

 

If food intolerances are a concern you may want to get tested for sibo. If you have an overgrowth of normal gut bacteria where it's not supposed to be (the small intestine) you'll have all the symptoms you describe.

i tried leaky gut and gastroparesis, neither worked , so you are probably right regarding serotonin, I'm doing a kinda SIBO style diet right now anyway, the things i can't digest are sugar/starch/fiber/high protein/dairy/ even too much water........Fat based foods seem to work fine. salmon/avocado/coconut yogurt....these things are as of now the ONLY things that dont upset me, in fact this MCT oil im currently trying with high doses is really easing symptoms. it seems also that throwing down serotonin precursors (vitamins and aminos) also inflames me, because my body is not hanging on to it, it seems the serotonin connection is correct, but i must have down regulated receptors and an injured system, so serotonin supplements just make me worse.....im sticking with high fat for now because im reading Omega 3 and MCT oils and healthy fats can actually "repair" damaged neuronal systems , that the only real player in neurogenesis is fat....so im gonna stick with this and see what happens. got nothing left to lose at this point anyway haha , i guess the name for what im doing is Ketogenic, but im going hard with it 

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Cocopuffz17
On 8/28/2019 at 4:26 PM, Heal95 said:

In withdrawal the usual things to apply I find. I eat a lot of fibre and drink plenty of water but still have constipation. My bowels and the muscles won’t relax and release. 

 

I have lupus and a while back I read that auto immunity was leaky guy. I changed my diet and managed to control the symptoms but I just ate more fruit veg and grains. I never did any leaky gut protocol I just ate whole foods and minimal meat and almost non existent dairy. 

 

While I do believe that disease starts in the gut I don’t believe in the leaky guy theory. These have just been my experiences 

You should check out lectins and see what foods contain them. I am a strong believer in the leaky gut theory. As I had numerous health issues( Alopecia Areata/Universalis, Erythema multiforme and numerous other sensitivities to foods/certain deodorants(would give me full body hives)) all of which are autoimmune. 

After removing certain foods and healing my gut. I no longer have the sensitivities to those items and my alopecia is reversing after 4 years of having no hair. 

As far as I am concerned the proof is in the results. I was on the lifestyle for 40 days and NEVER EVER felt as good in my life. After that I knew I could come off this AD. So now wds kick my butt. That is very minor for the positives I saw and i know they will come back after this drug withdrawal is finished. 

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icequeen

I've been hospitalized and had two surgeries for ileus and they said I have total gastroparesis. No movement at all after withddrawing from ADs. No diet works for it. I have to take laxatives every day for it. I've tried probiotics with no results, high fiber diets, low fiber diets, vegetarian diet etc etc. None worked for me but if anyone has any success with diets, I'm happy for you. 

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