Jump to content
embd

emdb: updosing or holding for a bad wave?

Recommended Posts

embd

This past week was somewhat improved in the sleep department. My last really bad night (0-2 hours) was last Sunday night, and there were a couple of nights where I actually slept almost through the night. But I've been experiencing very painful muscle cramps in my knees and lower legs for the past few days which have been especially painful at night, so sleep has gone down a bit again over the weekend. I try wearing compression socks or wrapping Ace bandages around my knees to add some pressure, and that helps somewhat but then I get too hot in the middle of the night and have to take them off.

 

On a positive note, my stomach pain has died down, I continue to see an improvement in having more "normal" stool, and my blocked ears aren't constant anymore. My morning anxiety is not every day, and I don't have restlessness or tremors anymore. So I take that as a sign that I'm gradually improving. It's now been over 13 weeks since I last cut and about nine weeks since this bad wave started. Since I work from home, I'm able to crawl in bed with my laptop most days and keep up some semblance of a routine. I've had to increase my daycare hours for my daughter since I'm not able to properly care for her right now, but all in all, I'm managing. My husband and I are relieved every evening to cross one more day off the wave. :)

Share this post


Link to post
embd

@Gridley, have you experienced the sudden, severe twitching of legs in bed at night? I think they're called myoclonic jerks. They just started for me this past week and seem to wake me up out of any sound sleep I'm getting. Is this another thing that resolves on its own, or comes and goes? I hadn't experienced it during my taper prior to this bad wave I'm having. Very painful sensation, and the worst part is how it interferes with sleep. They don't seem to be so bad during the day.

 

Also, I've read that numbing Lidocaine ointment can help relieve nerve pain. I'd like to try applying some of it to my sore leg muscles when I go to sleep at night. Do you think that's a good idea, or have other members tried this and had problems?

Share this post


Link to post
Gridley
50 minutes ago, embd said:

I think they're called myoclonic jerks. They just started for me this past week and seem to wake me up out of any sound sleep I'm getting. Is this another thing that resolves on its own, or comes and goes

 

Here is SA's topic: hypnic-jerks

 

It includes several success stories about the myoclonic (hypnic) jerks stopping.  I haven't experienced this symptom and am sorry you're having to go through it.

 

Regarding the lidocaine, I have read members report not having a problem with lidocaine (generally  in a dental context) and other members whose experience wasn't positive.  Nonpsychotropic drugs can often have a psychiatric effect, especially in withdrawal, and I would be careful using something like lidocaine that blocks nerve sensations.  This would be especially so since you'd likely be using it on a regular basis, unlike those in a dental context.  

 

Share this post


Link to post
embd

What happened to those whose lidocaine experience wasn't positive? I wasn't thinking of using it on a regular basis, just on a really bad night. I try never to use any remedy more than one night in a row. I may try just a bit on one small area tonight to see if it helps or worsens. Do you think that would be a safe trial?

 

Would something like Ben Gay be a better/safer ointment/cream to try? I'm guessing the soreness is likely due more to nerve pain than muscle pain, isn't it?

Share this post


Link to post
Gridley
54 minutes ago, embd said:

What happened to those whose lidocaine experience wasn't positive?

I wasn't able to find the specific post, only the excerpt that showed up on my search under "lidocaine," so I don't know specifically wasn't positive.

 

There's alway a risk but if you wanted to try it on a small area, that would be up to you.

 

Likely you're right--it's nerve rather than muscle pain.

Share this post


Link to post
embd

OK, I held off on the lidocaine for last night and managed to sleep ok. The legs didn't act up as bad. 

 

Is it common for some symptoms to resolve during a wave only to cycle back again later? I'd thought the body shakes and bad diarrhea had gone away, but they're back now.

 

Also, do women find that their monthly cycle really affects the severity of their WD? I didn't notice it making much difference during my normal taper, but during this acute wave, my cycles really seem to affect my symptoms.

Share this post


Link to post
Gridley
56 minutes ago, embd said:

OK, I held off on the lidocaine for last night and managed to sleep ok. The legs didn't act up as bad. 

 

Is it common for some symptoms to resolve during a wave only to cycle back again later? I'd thought the body shakes and bad diarrhea had gone away, but they're back now.

 

Also, do women find that their monthly cycle really affects the severity of their WD? I didn't notice it making much difference during my normal taper, but during this acute wave, my cycles really seem to affect my symptoms.

 

Yes, it is common for symptoms to resolve then cycle back later. 

 

I've read many reports from members that their monthly cycle has a definite effect on the severity of their WD.

Share this post


Link to post
embd

@Gridley, I just wanted to confirm that the type of symptoms/cycling I'm describing just sounds to you like a bad wave from too many cumulative cuts, correct? I wanted to be sure this isn't some kind of protracted withdrawal or an acute reaction to Paxil all of a sudden. Those kinds of problems don't typically hit in the middle of a taper, correct? They would be more toward the end or when first starting or ending a med. 

 

Do you see other members go through this same kind of pattern/severity I'm going through from catch-up symptoms? Having never gone through something like this before, I want to stay on the safe side and be sure it is what I think it is and not something more serious that I should be having monitored (not that doctors would really know what to do). I also don't know if tardive symptoms appear in this kind of wave where they get worse and worse over time instead of better. Symptoms have become a bit more severe again over the last few days, whereas a week ago I was seeing more improvement. Do you believe if I keep holding, this will truly resolve on its own within another month or two most likely? (It's now been a nine-week fairly constant wave.) It surprises me that symptoms can seem to be starting to resolve only to flare up again with almost more intensity than before. It doesn't feel like I'm making any progress in the healing department when that happens. I know you see a lot more members' situations so you would be a better judge than me.

 

Could you look at my taper schedule in my signature below and tell me if my taper was way too hasty up to now, or perhaps just a bit on the fast side as I got to the lower doses? I'm not sure how I stack up against what you would consider a too-fast taper.

Share this post


Link to post
Gridley

 

 

19 minutes ago, embd said:

I wanted to be sure this isn't some kind of protracted withdrawal or an acute reaction to Paxil all of a sudden. Those kinds of problems don't typically hit in the middle of a taper, correct? They would be more toward the end or when first starting or ending a med. 

 

That is correct.  It sounds to me like a regular wave.  It will resolve but unfortunately I can't put a timeline on it.  .

 

Holding is making progress, because you are catching up and healing.  It may not seem that way, but healing is taking place.  There's really not rhyme or reason to the symptoms.  They come and go and cycle back.  I would just keep holding.  That is the safest, smartest and most effective thing to do to regain stability.

Share this post


Link to post
embd

OK, thanks for the reassurance. When you're by yourself, you feel like an island and wonder if this is truly just a wave or something more concerning. Good to know it will resolve given enough time (however long that may be). I wish I could hit the fast forward button a few months. :)  (Have you ever been in a bad wave yourself? If so, how long did it last?)

Share this post


Link to post
embd

Also, does my taper timeline up to now look exceptionally hasty? I thought I was going at a fairly conservative pace, but apparently not.

Share this post


Link to post
Gridley
4 minutes ago, embd said:

Also, does my taper timeline up to now look exceptionally hasty?

 

It looks like a 10% per month taper, not exceptionally hasty but probably too fast for you once you got below 10mg.  Below 10mg is where things start getting tighter.  That's why I think what you're going through is catch-up healing.  

 

Share this post


Link to post
embd

Ugh, I hope it's not an extra month for every month I tapered a bit too quickly! That would be six months of this!!! :(

Share this post


Link to post
Gridley
12 minutes ago, embd said:

I hope it's not an extra month for every month I tapered a bit too quickly! That would be six months of this!!! :(

 

There's no way to calculate, but I wouldn't think it works like that. We really have no understanding of how it works.   I think you're overthinking the situation.  You'll stabilize but we don't know when.  We're in "one day at a time" territory.

Share this post


Link to post
embd

LOL, you sound like my husband. He tells me I'm running a marathon (I'm a sprinter by nature) and I need to pace myself for as long as it takes. As long as I know stabilization is at the end of the road, we'll get there. :)

Share this post


Link to post
embd

Journal entry: Looking back at my notes, I realized most of the uptick in symptoms over the last week or two (increased insomnia and resulting anxiety) were due to the increased pain/nerve/muscle sensitivity in my legs and feet, and increased hot flashes at night. Even if I was able to drift off to sleep easily enough, I was awakened throughout the night by the cramps and hot flashes (which seem at their worst between midnight-5am). 

 

On a whim, we bought a mini freezer last night for the bedroom and put a couple body-size cooling pads (from a local rehab facility) in it by the bed. Throughout the night, when the cramps would wake me up in arching pain, I would take a cooling pad and wrap my lower or upper legs in the pad. The comforting sensation allowed me to fall back to sleep. The bonus was that it cooled my body core enough that the hot flashes didn't bother me much at all. If I woke up an hour or two later in pain again, I'd swap out the pad I was using for a fresh, cool pad and go back to sleep.

 

It could have been a fluke that it worked and I'll have to try this strategy for a few more nights to be sure it's really working, but I may have stumbled upon a great solution for this phase of the WD symptoms. I do notice that the nighttime urination frequency seems to be dying down and I'm naturally drowsier now at bedtime many nights, so perhaps the autonomic nervous system is finally settling down a bit. That, and lots of prayer for God's healing power to do its work in my body!! :)

Share this post


Link to post
RachelSusan

This is great news.  I hope it continues to work.

 

RS

Share this post


Link to post
embd

Thanks, RS! Last night's sleep wasn't so grand but it was more due to that time of the month arriving, which brought light sleep and its own set of challenges. I was able to use the icy pads again to help with the leg cramps, though, so I think that will be a good solution going forward, for as long as the leg cramps persist.

Share this post


Link to post
embd

@Gridley, I was curious as to your thoughts about whether my Ativan taper (from April 2017 to May 2018) would still be having any impact on my CNS at this point in the game. I had followed Prof. Ashton's recommendation as to waiting a month after finishing the benzo taper to start my AD taper. Looking back now, I probably should have waited closer to six months, but what's done is done. I did experience a wave of insomnia four months into the AD taper which I attributed to the Ativan taper, but other than that, had pretty smooth sailing until recently.

 

I am definitely seeing gradual improvements this week at last (though each day is still rocky), so it seems I'm on the road to stabilization (though that road seems to have a lot of roadblocks and detours), but was just curious: do you think at this point, almost 18 months out, any of my current wave/instability could be attributed to the fact that I'd done a recent Ativan taper when I started tapering from Paxil? In other words, do you think all the healing that needed to be done from the benzo is done at this point, or could some of that healing still be continuing while I'm also trying to heal from Paxil cuts?

 

Thank you for your input! You'll be going in the other direction it looks like - once you finish tapering your AD, you'll start your benzo taper. How much time do you plan to put between them?

Share this post


Link to post
embd

@Gridley, I'm sorry, I thought I had tagged you in my question yesterday, but apparently I did not. Here it is again. It's not a big deal, but I was just curious about the rate of benzo healing from my previous Ativan taper:

 

22 hours ago, embd said:

@Gridley, I was curious as to your thoughts about whether my Ativan taper (from April 2017 to May 2018) would still be having any impact on my CNS at this point in the game. I had followed Prof. Ashton's recommendation as to waiting a month after finishing the benzo taper to start my AD taper. Looking back now, I probably should have waited closer to six months, but what's done is done. I did experience a wave of insomnia four months into the AD taper which I attributed to the Ativan taper, but other than that, had pretty smooth sailing until recently.

 

I am definitely seeing gradual improvements this week at last (though each day is still rocky), so it seems I'm on the road to stabilization (though that road seems to have a lot of roadblocks and detours), but was just curious: do you think at this point, almost 18 months out, any of my current wave/instability could be attributed to the fact that I'd done a recent Ativan taper when I started tapering from Paxil? In other words, do you think all the healing that needed to be done from the benzo is done at this point, or could some of that healing still be continuing while I'm also trying to heal from Paxil cuts?

 

Thank you for your input! You'll be going in the other direction it looks like - once you finish tapering your AD, you'll start your benzo taper. How much time do you plan to put between them?

t. 

Share this post


Link to post
Gridley
4 hours ago, embd said:

whether my Ativan taper (from April 2017 to May 2018) would still be having any impact on my CNS at this point in the game.

There's no way I can say for sure.  My best guess would be there's still some residual effects/healing going on from the benzo..  I haven't seen a lot of post-zero information for benzos like we have for AD's, but, as with AD's, I would guess there still some healing going on in your case.  It's very good you're seeing some gradual improvements.

 

My plan is to wait several months after my Lexapro taper before beginning my benzo taper.  At least three, perhaps more, depending on how I'm feeling.

Share this post


Link to post

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...