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Edmunds: prolonged Wellbutrin withdrawal


Edmunds

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Thanks for the insights. 

Fluoxetine 1997-2014, 2015, 10-40 mg. GAD and DR symptoms returned  April 2013.

Bupropion 2013-14, 4 mos; Lexapro 2014; Cymbalta 2014. Gabapentin 2014; Mirtazapene 2014. Buspirone 2015.

Venlafaxine Dec. 2015 – May 2019, 150 mg, tapered to 0 in 3 weeks, May-June 2019

Bupropion Mar 2017 – July 2019 300 mg, tapered to 0 in 3 weeks, July 2019

Fluoxetine/Prozac May 2019 – present, tapered from 20 mg started Jan 2020, linear 10% every 4 wks.; tapered 6 to 4 mg June, 2, 2020; 4 to 1.8 mg Aug. 26, 2020; updose from 1.8 mg to 2.0 Nov. 16, 2020. Holding at 2.0 mg as of Mar 14,2021. April 14, 2021 updosed to 2.5 mg.

D3 2,000 mg; Omega 3 360 EPA/240 DHA; Magnesium Chelate 250 mg; Inositol powder started Nov 12, 2020; Theanine 400 mg; cranial electrotherapy stimulation device, self-treatments started Mar 14, 2021.

 

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@Colonial, thanks for your response and helpful insights.

Fluoxetine 1997-2014, 2015, 10-40 mg. GAD and DR symptoms returned  April 2013.

Bupropion 2013-14, 4 mos; Lexapro 2014; Cymbalta 2014. Gabapentin 2014; Mirtazapene 2014. Buspirone 2015.

Venlafaxine Dec. 2015 – May 2019, 150 mg, tapered to 0 in 3 weeks, May-June 2019

Bupropion Mar 2017 – July 2019 300 mg, tapered to 0 in 3 weeks, July 2019

Fluoxetine/Prozac May 2019 – present, tapered from 20 mg started Jan 2020, linear 10% every 4 wks.; tapered 6 to 4 mg June, 2, 2020; 4 to 1.8 mg Aug. 26, 2020; updose from 1.8 mg to 2.0 Nov. 16, 2020. Holding at 2.0 mg as of Mar 14,2021. April 14, 2021 updosed to 2.5 mg.

D3 2,000 mg; Omega 3 360 EPA/240 DHA; Magnesium Chelate 250 mg; Inositol powder started Nov 12, 2020; Theanine 400 mg; cranial electrotherapy stimulation device, self-treatments started Mar 14, 2021.

 

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Your very welcome.

 

I think the success of any non drug "treatment" for WD induced trauma would really also be based on how knowledgeable the other party is with the issue.

While acknowledging all trauma is nuanced, there are coping mechanisms that are standard for all types of emotional trauma

I sometimes wonder if all this "specialty trauma" segmentation may do more harm than good if one is made to feel they can not progress without a specialist in that area.

 

So without knowing your answer to the question below I can't really comment further, (other than to say that some people do report that too much treatment or therapy actually makes them worse, because their constantly being made to talk about the issue, which prevents them from moving past it.)

 

"What would your idea of "treatment" look like in your situation, and what do you think your major issues are with the added complications to your particular case?

Maybe we can flesh that out better as a group to see if going forward with that would be of any benefit or just actually delay your healing."

 

 

 

 Starting ds 2 (12.5 CR'S) = 25 MG PAXIL CR 1/21/15: 1 Pill + 10mg liquid (2 weeks) 2/4: 1 Pill + 9mg Lq (3 weeks) 2/25: 1 Pill + 8 mg lq (1 week) 3/4: 1 Pill + 6 mg lq (2 weeks) 3/18/15 1 Pill + 4 mg lq (2 weeks) 4/1/15 1 Pill + 3 mg lq (2 weeks) 4/14/15 1 Pill + 2 mg lq (2 weeks) 4/29/15 1Pill + 1 mg lq (16 days) 5/15/15 1 12.5 mg Pill ONLY (9 days) 5/24/15 12 mgs liquid (8 days) 6/1/15 11mg lq (12 days) 6/13/15 10 mg.  12/3/15 Drop from 8mg to 7.6 (24 days to) 12/27/15 7.2mgs 8/4/16 6.8mgs,  11/1/16 6.4mgs, 2/5/17 6 mgs  4/3/17 5.6mgs, 4/24/17 5.2mg, 6/13/17 4.8mgs, 9/20/17 4.4mgS, 11/23/17 4 mgs, 1/1/18 3.6 mgs, 2/15/18 3.2 mgs. 4/13/18 2.8mgs, 5/11/18 2.4mgs, 6/10/18 2.0 mgs, 8/4/18 1.6mgs,  9/27/18 1.2mgs, 12/24/18 0.8mg, 3/24/19 0.64 mg,(syringe change issue date?) 4/22/19 0.60 mg, 5/24/19 0.60 mg, 7/7/19 0.52 mgs, 8/4/19 0.44mgs, 11/4/19 0.36mgs, 2/1/20 0.28mgs, 3/1/20 0.24mgs (crash April 6) Compound started 6/28/21: 0.24mgs, 8/29/21: 0.22mgs, 10/31/21: 0.20mgs, 1/03/22: 0.18mgs, 3/5/22: 0.16mgs, 5/5/22: 0.14mgs.

 

Original Wellbutrin Dose: 6 months from 9/14 to 3/2015, 300 XL 3/15/15: Half to 150 XL ( severe symptoms started on day 12) 4/16/15: 125mg   for 20 days to: 5/6/15:   100mg  for  15 days to: 5/21/15    75mg  for  10 days to: 6/1/15:  56.25mg      13 days to: 6/13/15: 37.25mg    7 days to: 6/20/15  28.12mg   14 days to: 7/4/15  18.75mg, 7 days to: 7/11/15; RAISE BACK TO: 28.12 to 8/14/15: 18.75mg  20 days to :9/3/15 : 12.5mg, 8/4/16 9mg 1/9/17: 8.5mg 2/8/17 8mg, 3/9/17: 7.6  4/9/17  7.2  5/27/17 6.4 6/24/17 5.8, 8/1/17 5.0, 8/29/17 4.2mgs, 10/2/17 3.5mgs, 12/28/17 2.5mgs, 2/27/18 1.7mgs,  4/19/18 0.8 mgs, LAST DOSE: 6/11/18:  3 YEARS, 2 MONTHS, 27 DAYS...

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On 11/23/2020 at 12:04 PM, Edmunds said:

I have a question. I’ve been reading recent literature on trauma. People are often prescribed ADs because of their histories of anxiety and depression linked to traumatic experiences. When an individual stops taking an AD either CT or after a rapid taper, is the resulting withdrawal a form of trauma as well, a new traumatic experience that may benefit from treatment, though preferably not more ADs?

 

A very good question. Clearly, severe withdrawal symptoms are both physical and psychological trauma.

 

We certainly have many people here who have been shocked to their cores that they may not have been fully informed or erroneously informed by their doctors. The sense that there are holes in the safety net can be very frightening.

 

Many members have adopted non-drug ways of coping with this additional trauma, such as meditative breathing to get through waves of symptoms, cognitive behavior therapy (CBT) to manage fears, and psychotherapy to address memories and feelings that might have become more vivid in withdrawal. Learning these ways to cope assists overall, the new trauma isn't separated from the old trauma.

 

Coping with all aspects of withdrawal is, as they say, a learning experience. You can't help but be changed by it. For many, it's the hardest thing they've ever done, and they emerge older and wiser.

 

 

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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As someone who has been dealing with WD for a year and a half now and who took ADs for thirty-three years, your message is so encouraging. I recently started seeing a Somatic Experiencing practitioner and hope to report eventually that it is of some benefit to me. I'm doing this not so much to alleviate WD symptoms as get at the derealization periods I started having at age 19, almost certainly connected to childhood of complex trauma--very complex because it did not involve horrible episodes of abuse or physical neglect, just a long buildup in dealing with a parent with psychological issues of her own. It was derealization and anxiety that finally led me to a psychiatrist in the 1980s, who immediately prescribed my first AD, a tricyclic pill. A series of doctors diagnosed me with clinical depression, which I think was the wrong diagnosis from the start. I should add that I've had several long periods in my life when the DR and anxiety largely disappeared.

Fluoxetine 1997-2014, 2015, 10-40 mg. GAD and DR symptoms returned  April 2013.

Bupropion 2013-14, 4 mos; Lexapro 2014; Cymbalta 2014. Gabapentin 2014; Mirtazapene 2014. Buspirone 2015.

Venlafaxine Dec. 2015 – May 2019, 150 mg, tapered to 0 in 3 weeks, May-June 2019

Bupropion Mar 2017 – July 2019 300 mg, tapered to 0 in 3 weeks, July 2019

Fluoxetine/Prozac May 2019 – present, tapered from 20 mg started Jan 2020, linear 10% every 4 wks.; tapered 6 to 4 mg June, 2, 2020; 4 to 1.8 mg Aug. 26, 2020; updose from 1.8 mg to 2.0 Nov. 16, 2020. Holding at 2.0 mg as of Mar 14,2021. April 14, 2021 updosed to 2.5 mg.

D3 2,000 mg; Omega 3 360 EPA/240 DHA; Magnesium Chelate 250 mg; Inositol powder started Nov 12, 2020; Theanine 400 mg; cranial electrotherapy stimulation device, self-treatments started Mar 14, 2021.

 

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Yesterday and today have been tough ones, mainly the recurring thought that after a year and a half of WD, I should have some signs of getting better but I'm just experiencing more anxiety and more derealization. The main difference recently has been my waking up earlier than I want to with strong anxiety and having to get out of bed to alleviate it, at least partly. This obstinate thought of regression makes it harder of course to break the cycle of anxiety. I updosed from 1.8 to 2.0 mgs of liquid fluoxetine 13 days ago. I had been holding at 1.8 mgs from Aug 26 to Nov 16.  I've noticed no benefit from the updose, but I would not expect a change of a few drops to make me feel worse. Unlike many, I have never experienced clear waves and windows swings, just daily ups and downs of anxiety and some days or parts of days better than others. The DR has been heavier ever since I tapered off Effexor and Wellbutin way back in May and July 2019. How common is it for members to be in WD for many months and then have this experience of regression, triggering thoughts of "what's the use?" Several months ago the psychiatrist (whom I'm not seeing anymore) said to me, "You don't want to be miserable. Maybe you just need medication." I have no intention of following his advice, but that remark of his has a way of coming back to me!

Fluoxetine 1997-2014, 2015, 10-40 mg. GAD and DR symptoms returned  April 2013.

Bupropion 2013-14, 4 mos; Lexapro 2014; Cymbalta 2014. Gabapentin 2014; Mirtazapene 2014. Buspirone 2015.

Venlafaxine Dec. 2015 – May 2019, 150 mg, tapered to 0 in 3 weeks, May-June 2019

Bupropion Mar 2017 – July 2019 300 mg, tapered to 0 in 3 weeks, July 2019

Fluoxetine/Prozac May 2019 – present, tapered from 20 mg started Jan 2020, linear 10% every 4 wks.; tapered 6 to 4 mg June, 2, 2020; 4 to 1.8 mg Aug. 26, 2020; updose from 1.8 mg to 2.0 Nov. 16, 2020. Holding at 2.0 mg as of Mar 14,2021. April 14, 2021 updosed to 2.5 mg.

D3 2,000 mg; Omega 3 360 EPA/240 DHA; Magnesium Chelate 250 mg; Inositol powder started Nov 12, 2020; Theanine 400 mg; cranial electrotherapy stimulation device, self-treatments started Mar 14, 2021.

 

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54 minutes ago, Edmunds said:

The main difference recently has been my waking up earlier than I want to with strong anxiety and having to get out of bed to alleviate it, at least partly.

 

55 minutes ago, Edmunds said:

How common is it for members to be in WD for many months and then have this experience of regression, triggering thoughts of "what's the use?"

 

It's only the 22nd day since your reaction to the naltrexone and the other supplements. So it's hard to tell how much of that making you worse is affecting your thinking.  I didn't think this is "regression" per se, in the normal way we think about waves and windows as much as you've accidentally destabilized yourself and it takes time to recover. That needs to be kept separate from "a year and a half of WD" in the usual way we would think about it.  You also expressed a lot of anxiety concerning the election and stress destabilizes our systems

 

As for thoughts like you want to give up, or "what's the use", since you have a fairly good idea as to what happened, you can ignore them. If you truly had no idea why things were happening then that would be problematic.  But the good news is the future is in your hands. No one can force you to take meds or supplements that could have a negative effect, and your still taking the one supplement and recently increased the Zoloft so it may take for things to settle down.  

 

Do you celebrate Thanksgiving?  If so, the preparations of doing so may have also aggravated your system.

 Starting ds 2 (12.5 CR'S) = 25 MG PAXIL CR 1/21/15: 1 Pill + 10mg liquid (2 weeks) 2/4: 1 Pill + 9mg Lq (3 weeks) 2/25: 1 Pill + 8 mg lq (1 week) 3/4: 1 Pill + 6 mg lq (2 weeks) 3/18/15 1 Pill + 4 mg lq (2 weeks) 4/1/15 1 Pill + 3 mg lq (2 weeks) 4/14/15 1 Pill + 2 mg lq (2 weeks) 4/29/15 1Pill + 1 mg lq (16 days) 5/15/15 1 12.5 mg Pill ONLY (9 days) 5/24/15 12 mgs liquid (8 days) 6/1/15 11mg lq (12 days) 6/13/15 10 mg.  12/3/15 Drop from 8mg to 7.6 (24 days to) 12/27/15 7.2mgs 8/4/16 6.8mgs,  11/1/16 6.4mgs, 2/5/17 6 mgs  4/3/17 5.6mgs, 4/24/17 5.2mg, 6/13/17 4.8mgs, 9/20/17 4.4mgS, 11/23/17 4 mgs, 1/1/18 3.6 mgs, 2/15/18 3.2 mgs. 4/13/18 2.8mgs, 5/11/18 2.4mgs, 6/10/18 2.0 mgs, 8/4/18 1.6mgs,  9/27/18 1.2mgs, 12/24/18 0.8mg, 3/24/19 0.64 mg,(syringe change issue date?) 4/22/19 0.60 mg, 5/24/19 0.60 mg, 7/7/19 0.52 mgs, 8/4/19 0.44mgs, 11/4/19 0.36mgs, 2/1/20 0.28mgs, 3/1/20 0.24mgs (crash April 6) Compound started 6/28/21: 0.24mgs, 8/29/21: 0.22mgs, 10/31/21: 0.20mgs, 1/03/22: 0.18mgs, 3/5/22: 0.16mgs, 5/5/22: 0.14mgs.

 

Original Wellbutrin Dose: 6 months from 9/14 to 3/2015, 300 XL 3/15/15: Half to 150 XL ( severe symptoms started on day 12) 4/16/15: 125mg   for 20 days to: 5/6/15:   100mg  for  15 days to: 5/21/15    75mg  for  10 days to: 6/1/15:  56.25mg      13 days to: 6/13/15: 37.25mg    7 days to: 6/20/15  28.12mg   14 days to: 7/4/15  18.75mg, 7 days to: 7/11/15; RAISE BACK TO: 28.12 to 8/14/15: 18.75mg  20 days to :9/3/15 : 12.5mg, 8/4/16 9mg 1/9/17: 8.5mg 2/8/17 8mg, 3/9/17: 7.6  4/9/17  7.2  5/27/17 6.4 6/24/17 5.8, 8/1/17 5.0, 8/29/17 4.2mgs, 10/2/17 3.5mgs, 12/28/17 2.5mgs, 2/27/18 1.7mgs,  4/19/18 0.8 mgs, LAST DOSE: 6/11/18:  3 YEARS, 2 MONTHS, 27 DAYS...

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Today marks 3 weeks since I updosed my liquid fluoxetine from 1.8 to 2.0 mgs. Symptoms have remained pretty much the same since the up dose. Anxiety feelings, chronic heavy derealization, and hair-trigger crying have not trended in any significant direction for the past several months. Also for some months, I've awakened every morning with a particular sort of anxious feeling (cortisol spike?) that fades after I've been up for awhile.

 

My too-fast tapers from Effexor and Wellbutrin started a year and 7 months ago. My taper from 20 mgs of fluoxetine started about 11 months ago.

 

One long-term pattern is that feelings of distress, anxiety, discouragement, and sometimes crying tend to be worst in the morning hours and most bearable in the late evening hours, though the derealization doesn't noticeably change.

 

I started working with a somatic experiencing professional recently. We'll see how that goes.

 

Since the Effexor WD started, I've had no extended windows, just a few days here and there (and frequent late evenings) when I renew my hopes for recovery.

Fluoxetine 1997-2014, 2015, 10-40 mg. GAD and DR symptoms returned  April 2013.

Bupropion 2013-14, 4 mos; Lexapro 2014; Cymbalta 2014. Gabapentin 2014; Mirtazapene 2014. Buspirone 2015.

Venlafaxine Dec. 2015 – May 2019, 150 mg, tapered to 0 in 3 weeks, May-June 2019

Bupropion Mar 2017 – July 2019 300 mg, tapered to 0 in 3 weeks, July 2019

Fluoxetine/Prozac May 2019 – present, tapered from 20 mg started Jan 2020, linear 10% every 4 wks.; tapered 6 to 4 mg June, 2, 2020; 4 to 1.8 mg Aug. 26, 2020; updose from 1.8 mg to 2.0 Nov. 16, 2020. Holding at 2.0 mg as of Mar 14,2021. April 14, 2021 updosed to 2.5 mg.

D3 2,000 mg; Omega 3 360 EPA/240 DHA; Magnesium Chelate 250 mg; Inositol powder started Nov 12, 2020; Theanine 400 mg; cranial electrotherapy stimulation device, self-treatments started Mar 14, 2021.

 

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I'm at 4 weeks and 1 day holding at 2.0 mgs liquid fluoxetine. I've had a couple of periods of a few hours this past week when the anxiety dropped off, and I thought, hey, maybe I'm starting to make some progress. Then, the next day, the anxiety is back. I notice very little change in the DR, though if the anxiety recedes I seem to tolerate the DR a bit better, too.

 

One piece of good news is that the anxiety swells seem more moderate and have been for maybe a few weeks. I've never had drastic ping-pong waves and windows.

 

Las week I had 3 sessions 3 days in a row of Safe and Sound Protocol therapy, based on polyvagal theory (S. Porges) and involving listening to music with head phones tuned to particular frequencies. People used to do 5 hours in 5 days of this treatment, but now practitioners, like mine, recommended our moving much more slowly. We only did 10, 10, and 20 minutes with the headphones over the 3 days, all in her office.

 

The conclusion of this story, however, is that after the third day, I left the office feeling miserable with anxiety and DR. (I also disliked most of the music--easy listening classic pop songs!) I decided not to continue for now. I've also been doing Somatic Experiencing twice a week with a practitioner that I like very much. Both she and the polyvagal practitioner (they both are that, really), who know each other and have talked about me, agreed that I probably tried to do one too many treatments in a single week. My CNS is too sensitized for that. And not to mention my regular talk therapy sessions.

 

The Somatic sessions are very pleasant feeling--lying on a table and being touched in a sustained way in lower back, arms, and head. But afterward I feel soporific, which adds to the DR feelings of disconnect and fog. It's early days with the somatic work, so I will stick with it for awhile.

 

But, as I've learned from SA so clearly, time is the principal healer when it comes to withdrawal recovery.

 

 

Fluoxetine 1997-2014, 2015, 10-40 mg. GAD and DR symptoms returned  April 2013.

Bupropion 2013-14, 4 mos; Lexapro 2014; Cymbalta 2014. Gabapentin 2014; Mirtazapene 2014. Buspirone 2015.

Venlafaxine Dec. 2015 – May 2019, 150 mg, tapered to 0 in 3 weeks, May-June 2019

Bupropion Mar 2017 – July 2019 300 mg, tapered to 0 in 3 weeks, July 2019

Fluoxetine/Prozac May 2019 – present, tapered from 20 mg started Jan 2020, linear 10% every 4 wks.; tapered 6 to 4 mg June, 2, 2020; 4 to 1.8 mg Aug. 26, 2020; updose from 1.8 mg to 2.0 Nov. 16, 2020. Holding at 2.0 mg as of Mar 14,2021. April 14, 2021 updosed to 2.5 mg.

D3 2,000 mg; Omega 3 360 EPA/240 DHA; Magnesium Chelate 250 mg; Inositol powder started Nov 12, 2020; Theanine 400 mg; cranial electrotherapy stimulation device, self-treatments started Mar 14, 2021.

 

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Yesterday, Sunday, the distress/anxiety was persistent all day. Thankfully, I've had little trouble with insomnia. Last night, however, after going to bed at the usual time, the anxiety had not receded as it usually does in the later evening. I started to worry that I was just getting worse and worse and there is nothing I can do about it. The derealization has been pretty bad, like I'm moving during the day in a thick dream. I got up, and my wonderful wife, who was working late, gave me comfort. I finally calmed down and went to sleep but then had an unpleasant dream of my childhood home being invaded by some nasty people--more and more of them as the dream went on. I woke up in the am, as I usually do, with a cortisol spike, but it recedes after I've been up for awhile.

 

My up dose from 1.8 to 2.0 of liquid fluoxetine four weeks and 2 days ago has not made a noticeably difference except perhaps more days of feeling worse. Do you advise me to keep holding at 2.0?

 

Is it likely that even though I have been completely off Effexor and Wellbutrin for 19 months and 17 months respectively, my body is still adjusting to those two ADs (plus the fluoxetine)?

Fluoxetine 1997-2014, 2015, 10-40 mg. GAD and DR symptoms returned  April 2013.

Bupropion 2013-14, 4 mos; Lexapro 2014; Cymbalta 2014. Gabapentin 2014; Mirtazapene 2014. Buspirone 2015.

Venlafaxine Dec. 2015 – May 2019, 150 mg, tapered to 0 in 3 weeks, May-June 2019

Bupropion Mar 2017 – July 2019 300 mg, tapered to 0 in 3 weeks, July 2019

Fluoxetine/Prozac May 2019 – present, tapered from 20 mg started Jan 2020, linear 10% every 4 wks.; tapered 6 to 4 mg June, 2, 2020; 4 to 1.8 mg Aug. 26, 2020; updose from 1.8 mg to 2.0 Nov. 16, 2020. Holding at 2.0 mg as of Mar 14,2021. April 14, 2021 updosed to 2.5 mg.

D3 2,000 mg; Omega 3 360 EPA/240 DHA; Magnesium Chelate 250 mg; Inositol powder started Nov 12, 2020; Theanine 400 mg; cranial electrotherapy stimulation device, self-treatments started Mar 14, 2021.

 

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* NO LONGER ACTIVE on SA *

MISSION ACCOMPLISHED:  (6 year taper)      0mg Pristiq  on 13th November 2021

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering from Oct 2015 - 13 Nov 2021   LAST DOSE 0.0025mg

Post 0 updates start here    My tapering program     My Intro (goes to tapering graph)

 VIDEO:   Antidepressant Withdrawal Syndrome and its Management

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Thanks @ChessieCat. Right, as I continue to learn!

Fluoxetine 1997-2014, 2015, 10-40 mg. GAD and DR symptoms returned  April 2013.

Bupropion 2013-14, 4 mos; Lexapro 2014; Cymbalta 2014. Gabapentin 2014; Mirtazapene 2014. Buspirone 2015.

Venlafaxine Dec. 2015 – May 2019, 150 mg, tapered to 0 in 3 weeks, May-June 2019

Bupropion Mar 2017 – July 2019 300 mg, tapered to 0 in 3 weeks, July 2019

Fluoxetine/Prozac May 2019 – present, tapered from 20 mg started Jan 2020, linear 10% every 4 wks.; tapered 6 to 4 mg June, 2, 2020; 4 to 1.8 mg Aug. 26, 2020; updose from 1.8 mg to 2.0 Nov. 16, 2020. Holding at 2.0 mg as of Mar 14,2021. April 14, 2021 updosed to 2.5 mg.

D3 2,000 mg; Omega 3 360 EPA/240 DHA; Magnesium Chelate 250 mg; Inositol powder started Nov 12, 2020; Theanine 400 mg; cranial electrotherapy stimulation device, self-treatments started Mar 14, 2021.

 

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My last dose of Wellbutrin was  6/11/18.

It took me almost 3 full years to taper the last 12 mgs.
I till have symptoms from that drug every Autumn.

 

 Starting ds 2 (12.5 CR'S) = 25 MG PAXIL CR 1/21/15: 1 Pill + 10mg liquid (2 weeks) 2/4: 1 Pill + 9mg Lq (3 weeks) 2/25: 1 Pill + 8 mg lq (1 week) 3/4: 1 Pill + 6 mg lq (2 weeks) 3/18/15 1 Pill + 4 mg lq (2 weeks) 4/1/15 1 Pill + 3 mg lq (2 weeks) 4/14/15 1 Pill + 2 mg lq (2 weeks) 4/29/15 1Pill + 1 mg lq (16 days) 5/15/15 1 12.5 mg Pill ONLY (9 days) 5/24/15 12 mgs liquid (8 days) 6/1/15 11mg lq (12 days) 6/13/15 10 mg.  12/3/15 Drop from 8mg to 7.6 (24 days to) 12/27/15 7.2mgs 8/4/16 6.8mgs,  11/1/16 6.4mgs, 2/5/17 6 mgs  4/3/17 5.6mgs, 4/24/17 5.2mg, 6/13/17 4.8mgs, 9/20/17 4.4mgS, 11/23/17 4 mgs, 1/1/18 3.6 mgs, 2/15/18 3.2 mgs. 4/13/18 2.8mgs, 5/11/18 2.4mgs, 6/10/18 2.0 mgs, 8/4/18 1.6mgs,  9/27/18 1.2mgs, 12/24/18 0.8mg, 3/24/19 0.64 mg,(syringe change issue date?) 4/22/19 0.60 mg, 5/24/19 0.60 mg, 7/7/19 0.52 mgs, 8/4/19 0.44mgs, 11/4/19 0.36mgs, 2/1/20 0.28mgs, 3/1/20 0.24mgs (crash April 6) Compound started 6/28/21: 0.24mgs, 8/29/21: 0.22mgs, 10/31/21: 0.20mgs, 1/03/22: 0.18mgs, 3/5/22: 0.16mgs, 5/5/22: 0.14mgs.

 

Original Wellbutrin Dose: 6 months from 9/14 to 3/2015, 300 XL 3/15/15: Half to 150 XL ( severe symptoms started on day 12) 4/16/15: 125mg   for 20 days to: 5/6/15:   100mg  for  15 days to: 5/21/15    75mg  for  10 days to: 6/1/15:  56.25mg      13 days to: 6/13/15: 37.25mg    7 days to: 6/20/15  28.12mg   14 days to: 7/4/15  18.75mg, 7 days to: 7/11/15; RAISE BACK TO: 28.12 to 8/14/15: 18.75mg  20 days to :9/3/15 : 12.5mg, 8/4/16 9mg 1/9/17: 8.5mg 2/8/17 8mg, 3/9/17: 7.6  4/9/17  7.2  5/27/17 6.4 6/24/17 5.8, 8/1/17 5.0, 8/29/17 4.2mgs, 10/2/17 3.5mgs, 12/28/17 2.5mgs, 2/27/18 1.7mgs,  4/19/18 0.8 mgs, LAST DOSE: 6/11/18:  3 YEARS, 2 MONTHS, 27 DAYS...

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Thanks to @ChessieCatand @Colonialfor recent responses. In a rush to get off liquid Prozac this past summer and not fully understanding the issue of tapering at already low doses, I tapered from 6 mgs to 1.8 mgs in the course of 12 weeks. With SA help I realized that this was a big mistake, and I held at 1.8 for nearly 12 weeks, with heavy anxiety and derealization symptoms the whole time. On Nov 16, again with SA advice, I updosed to 2.0 mgs and have been holding there ever since. During that time, just short of 5 weeks today, symptoms have not become a lot worse but no better. Today a lot of neuro-weeping and sobbing. The trend of waves and tiny, part-of-the-day windows has been more down that up.

 

I do notice that the symptom of sharp surges of anxiety have abated in the past few weeks. Now I feel a nearly constant distress and bad derealization, though the distress sometimes falls back late in the evening. Is simply noticing that the symptoms change, even if they are still very tough, a sign that my brain is doing its continuing repair work?

 

It's been nearly 6 weeks since my brief and ill-advised experiment with  low-dose Naltrexone to abate derealization.

 

Fluoxetine 1997-2014, 2015, 10-40 mg. GAD and DR symptoms returned  April 2013.

Bupropion 2013-14, 4 mos; Lexapro 2014; Cymbalta 2014. Gabapentin 2014; Mirtazapene 2014. Buspirone 2015.

Venlafaxine Dec. 2015 – May 2019, 150 mg, tapered to 0 in 3 weeks, May-June 2019

Bupropion Mar 2017 – July 2019 300 mg, tapered to 0 in 3 weeks, July 2019

Fluoxetine/Prozac May 2019 – present, tapered from 20 mg started Jan 2020, linear 10% every 4 wks.; tapered 6 to 4 mg June, 2, 2020; 4 to 1.8 mg Aug. 26, 2020; updose from 1.8 mg to 2.0 Nov. 16, 2020. Holding at 2.0 mg as of Mar 14,2021. April 14, 2021 updosed to 2.5 mg.

D3 2,000 mg; Omega 3 360 EPA/240 DHA; Magnesium Chelate 250 mg; Inositol powder started Nov 12, 2020; Theanine 400 mg; cranial electrotherapy stimulation device, self-treatments started Mar 14, 2021.

 

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2 hours ago, Edmunds said:

It's been nearly 6 weeks since my brief and ill-advised experiment with  low-dose Naltrexone to abate derealization.

 

Please keep this in mind as why symptoms increase or new ones appear.

It's only been 6 weeks.

 

The good news is the late evening improvement is a sign that pops up for a lot of people!

At my worst it was only the last 2 hours of the day I had relief. 

Then, periods of an hour or 2 in the day, or symptoms would be there but not so bad so I could focus.

 

 

 Starting ds 2 (12.5 CR'S) = 25 MG PAXIL CR 1/21/15: 1 Pill + 10mg liquid (2 weeks) 2/4: 1 Pill + 9mg Lq (3 weeks) 2/25: 1 Pill + 8 mg lq (1 week) 3/4: 1 Pill + 6 mg lq (2 weeks) 3/18/15 1 Pill + 4 mg lq (2 weeks) 4/1/15 1 Pill + 3 mg lq (2 weeks) 4/14/15 1 Pill + 2 mg lq (2 weeks) 4/29/15 1Pill + 1 mg lq (16 days) 5/15/15 1 12.5 mg Pill ONLY (9 days) 5/24/15 12 mgs liquid (8 days) 6/1/15 11mg lq (12 days) 6/13/15 10 mg.  12/3/15 Drop from 8mg to 7.6 (24 days to) 12/27/15 7.2mgs 8/4/16 6.8mgs,  11/1/16 6.4mgs, 2/5/17 6 mgs  4/3/17 5.6mgs, 4/24/17 5.2mg, 6/13/17 4.8mgs, 9/20/17 4.4mgS, 11/23/17 4 mgs, 1/1/18 3.6 mgs, 2/15/18 3.2 mgs. 4/13/18 2.8mgs, 5/11/18 2.4mgs, 6/10/18 2.0 mgs, 8/4/18 1.6mgs,  9/27/18 1.2mgs, 12/24/18 0.8mg, 3/24/19 0.64 mg,(syringe change issue date?) 4/22/19 0.60 mg, 5/24/19 0.60 mg, 7/7/19 0.52 mgs, 8/4/19 0.44mgs, 11/4/19 0.36mgs, 2/1/20 0.28mgs, 3/1/20 0.24mgs (crash April 6) Compound started 6/28/21: 0.24mgs, 8/29/21: 0.22mgs, 10/31/21: 0.20mgs, 1/03/22: 0.18mgs, 3/5/22: 0.16mgs, 5/5/22: 0.14mgs.

 

Original Wellbutrin Dose: 6 months from 9/14 to 3/2015, 300 XL 3/15/15: Half to 150 XL ( severe symptoms started on day 12) 4/16/15: 125mg   for 20 days to: 5/6/15:   100mg  for  15 days to: 5/21/15    75mg  for  10 days to: 6/1/15:  56.25mg      13 days to: 6/13/15: 37.25mg    7 days to: 6/20/15  28.12mg   14 days to: 7/4/15  18.75mg, 7 days to: 7/11/15; RAISE BACK TO: 28.12 to 8/14/15: 18.75mg  20 days to :9/3/15 : 12.5mg, 8/4/16 9mg 1/9/17: 8.5mg 2/8/17 8mg, 3/9/17: 7.6  4/9/17  7.2  5/27/17 6.4 6/24/17 5.8, 8/1/17 5.0, 8/29/17 4.2mgs, 10/2/17 3.5mgs, 12/28/17 2.5mgs, 2/27/18 1.7mgs,  4/19/18 0.8 mgs, LAST DOSE: 6/11/18:  3 YEARS, 2 MONTHS, 27 DAYS...

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  • 2 weeks later...

Thanks to @ChessieCatand @Colonialfor recent responses. It has been so helpful to me to know about waves and windows, which I would not have without SA. We spent Christmas Eve day with a daughter and family, and I found it a tough one. But on Christmas Day we were with our other daughter and family, and in late morning the anxiety symptoms, so persistent for many months, dramatically melted away--and stayed away the rest of the day. The day after that they were back again as usual and today as well. Nevertheless, I cherish Christmas Day because it reminded me that windows can and do happen, and the ups and downs tell me that my brain is working hard to right itself.

 

I've held at 2 mgs of liquid Fluoxetine for 7 weeks as of today. I'm not of a mind to make any changes before feeling some degree of consistent progress in recovering. That hasn't happened yet. I think you will agree I should stick with 2 mgs.

Fluoxetine 1997-2014, 2015, 10-40 mg. GAD and DR symptoms returned  April 2013.

Bupropion 2013-14, 4 mos; Lexapro 2014; Cymbalta 2014. Gabapentin 2014; Mirtazapene 2014. Buspirone 2015.

Venlafaxine Dec. 2015 – May 2019, 150 mg, tapered to 0 in 3 weeks, May-June 2019

Bupropion Mar 2017 – July 2019 300 mg, tapered to 0 in 3 weeks, July 2019

Fluoxetine/Prozac May 2019 – present, tapered from 20 mg started Jan 2020, linear 10% every 4 wks.; tapered 6 to 4 mg June, 2, 2020; 4 to 1.8 mg Aug. 26, 2020; updose from 1.8 mg to 2.0 Nov. 16, 2020. Holding at 2.0 mg as of Mar 14,2021. April 14, 2021 updosed to 2.5 mg.

D3 2,000 mg; Omega 3 360 EPA/240 DHA; Magnesium Chelate 250 mg; Inositol powder started Nov 12, 2020; Theanine 400 mg; cranial electrotherapy stimulation device, self-treatments started Mar 14, 2021.

 

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I'm so happy you had a good Christmas! 🙂

Hopefully more better days are on the way as we head through the winter.

 

 Starting ds 2 (12.5 CR'S) = 25 MG PAXIL CR 1/21/15: 1 Pill + 10mg liquid (2 weeks) 2/4: 1 Pill + 9mg Lq (3 weeks) 2/25: 1 Pill + 8 mg lq (1 week) 3/4: 1 Pill + 6 mg lq (2 weeks) 3/18/15 1 Pill + 4 mg lq (2 weeks) 4/1/15 1 Pill + 3 mg lq (2 weeks) 4/14/15 1 Pill + 2 mg lq (2 weeks) 4/29/15 1Pill + 1 mg lq (16 days) 5/15/15 1 12.5 mg Pill ONLY (9 days) 5/24/15 12 mgs liquid (8 days) 6/1/15 11mg lq (12 days) 6/13/15 10 mg.  12/3/15 Drop from 8mg to 7.6 (24 days to) 12/27/15 7.2mgs 8/4/16 6.8mgs,  11/1/16 6.4mgs, 2/5/17 6 mgs  4/3/17 5.6mgs, 4/24/17 5.2mg, 6/13/17 4.8mgs, 9/20/17 4.4mgS, 11/23/17 4 mgs, 1/1/18 3.6 mgs, 2/15/18 3.2 mgs. 4/13/18 2.8mgs, 5/11/18 2.4mgs, 6/10/18 2.0 mgs, 8/4/18 1.6mgs,  9/27/18 1.2mgs, 12/24/18 0.8mg, 3/24/19 0.64 mg,(syringe change issue date?) 4/22/19 0.60 mg, 5/24/19 0.60 mg, 7/7/19 0.52 mgs, 8/4/19 0.44mgs, 11/4/19 0.36mgs, 2/1/20 0.28mgs, 3/1/20 0.24mgs (crash April 6) Compound started 6/28/21: 0.24mgs, 8/29/21: 0.22mgs, 10/31/21: 0.20mgs, 1/03/22: 0.18mgs, 3/5/22: 0.16mgs, 5/5/22: 0.14mgs.

 

Original Wellbutrin Dose: 6 months from 9/14 to 3/2015, 300 XL 3/15/15: Half to 150 XL ( severe symptoms started on day 12) 4/16/15: 125mg   for 20 days to: 5/6/15:   100mg  for  15 days to: 5/21/15    75mg  for  10 days to: 6/1/15:  56.25mg      13 days to: 6/13/15: 37.25mg    7 days to: 6/20/15  28.12mg   14 days to: 7/4/15  18.75mg, 7 days to: 7/11/15; RAISE BACK TO: 28.12 to 8/14/15: 18.75mg  20 days to :9/3/15 : 12.5mg, 8/4/16 9mg 1/9/17: 8.5mg 2/8/17 8mg, 3/9/17: 7.6  4/9/17  7.2  5/27/17 6.4 6/24/17 5.8, 8/1/17 5.0, 8/29/17 4.2mgs, 10/2/17 3.5mgs, 12/28/17 2.5mgs, 2/27/18 1.7mgs,  4/19/18 0.8 mgs, LAST DOSE: 6/11/18:  3 YEARS, 2 MONTHS, 27 DAYS...

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@Colonialreplied on Sunday to my post which noted that I had been on 2.0 mg of liquid fluoxetine for 7 weeks and that I should probably stay there. But now, after a remarkable window on Christmas day but then 3 successive days of the usual tough anxiety, I wonder if there's a compelling reason not to try going back down to 1.8 mg. I was at that dose beginning on Aug 26 (after admittedly tapering too fast from 6 mg). @Altostratasuggested back in November that I might try an up-dose to 2.0 to see if I might feel better. I did that on November 16. Now, seven weeks later, I can't report any trend of improvement--indeed no significant improvement in many months, just the infrequently cracked window weeks apart. Is it possible that going back down to 1.8 mg, where I was for nearly 12 weeks, might be beneficial rather than harmful?

 

Like many other members, I get very discouraged at the lack of any significant progress, so I look to any sort of change that might help break the logjam, even though I know it can make me worse.

 

On another note, my spouse has been taking Wellbutrin for more than a year. She has also supported me, with unending patience, in my efforts to recover from a total of 33 years of AD and related drug use. She spoke to her psychiatrist yesterday about getting off Wellbutrin. She also described my situation to this doctor. And the reply was, as expected, "Well, your husband should probably consider trying a new medication. Maybe that's what he really needs." I can see how members who are suffering badly can end up yielding to this siren song. When I find myself in a particularly bad state, I certainly fantasize about that non-existing miracle pill! Fortunately, my own new integrative psychiatrist does not push me in that direction.

Fluoxetine 1997-2014, 2015, 10-40 mg. GAD and DR symptoms returned  April 2013.

Bupropion 2013-14, 4 mos; Lexapro 2014; Cymbalta 2014. Gabapentin 2014; Mirtazapene 2014. Buspirone 2015.

Venlafaxine Dec. 2015 – May 2019, 150 mg, tapered to 0 in 3 weeks, May-June 2019

Bupropion Mar 2017 – July 2019 300 mg, tapered to 0 in 3 weeks, July 2019

Fluoxetine/Prozac May 2019 – present, tapered from 20 mg started Jan 2020, linear 10% every 4 wks.; tapered 6 to 4 mg June, 2, 2020; 4 to 1.8 mg Aug. 26, 2020; updose from 1.8 mg to 2.0 Nov. 16, 2020. Holding at 2.0 mg as of Mar 14,2021. April 14, 2021 updosed to 2.5 mg.

D3 2,000 mg; Omega 3 360 EPA/240 DHA; Magnesium Chelate 250 mg; Inositol powder started Nov 12, 2020; Theanine 400 mg; cranial electrotherapy stimulation device, self-treatments started Mar 14, 2021.

 

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On 12/27/2020 at 7:47 PM, Edmunds said:

I've held at 2 mgs of liquid Fluoxetine for 7 weeks as of today. I'm not of a mind to make any changes before feeling some degree of consistent progress in recovering. That hasn't happened yet. I think you will agree I should stick with 2 mgs.

 

1 hour ago, Edmunds said:

I wonder if there's a compelling reason not to try going back down to 1.8 mg.

 

1 hour ago, Edmunds said:

Is it possible that going back down to 1.8 mg, where I was for nearly 12 weeks, might be beneficial rather than harmful?

 

Like many other members, I get very discouraged at the lack of any significant progress, so I look to any sort of change that might help break the logjam, even though I know it can make me worse.

 

On 12/19/2020 at 7:35 PM, Colonial said:

nearly 6 weeks since my brief and ill-advised experiment with  low-dose Naltrexone to abate derealization.

 

I think that you had a decent window most of the day is a good sign. 

I think you may have "over done it" by having 2 separate get togethers 2 days in a row.

That's a lot of stress on your nervous system.

 

Whether up dosing to 2.0 was enough to make a significant difference in time for you to feel any significant difference or if you needed a larger up dose is unknown, 

 

I also hate to keep bringing the Naltrexone and the other things you took with it up but you may not be giving that enough "negative credit" has to why your not progressing as fast as you would hope.  It's only been about 2 months now. We have people who are here for adverse reactions to meds they only took a few days and they do take quite a bit of time to stabilize. Any other drug can delay stabilization and because of it it's really hard to say what one should or shouldn't do. 

 

2 hours ago, Edmunds said:

Is it possible that going back down to 1.8 mg, where I was for nearly 12 weeks, might be beneficial rather than harmful?

 

I don't think dropping back to 1.8mg would be either beneficial or harmful, but it could make your symptoms worse, which is a "compelling" enough reason, in my mind at least, not to be tampering with the level again, unless you had a crystal ball to know how much extra you would need to "updose" to find relief but after 4 months of being near this dose and after having some good days like Christmas you could be just a few more weeks or months from longer windows,  It took me 6 months to really get to the point of feeling stable again once I stopped changing and tampering with my dosages.  Of course, only you know what you mean by benefit and harm.

 

On 12/27/2020 at 7:47 PM, Edmunds said:

We spent Christmas Eve day with a daughter and family, and I found it a tough one. But on Christmas Day we were with our other daughter and family, and in late

 

When I originally read that, I said to myself "this may lead to a symptom spike in the next few days", but I didn't want to say anything, since it might not have and I didn't want to worry you, but here you are.

The Holidays are very stressful times in and of themselves, any stress, even happy stress can provoke symptoms. I don't know what you are or are not doing to try to keep your life as stress free as possible or what you feel "obligated" to do, but I simply could not spend more than 90 minutes around people without paying the price in symptoms and then it would take me days to recover.  It's great that you got to see 2 different children and their families 2 days in a row but it doesn't surprise me that that sort of interaction at an emotional time of year would lead to another round of symptoms.

 

Covid has led to warnings all over the nation of our Government pleading people to not get together in person at the holidays and stay within your immediate household due to the risk of spread, so that we can all have many more holidays together in the future.  I find ironic how most of the requests for the pandemic are things that many of us had to do to keep our symptoms in control.  I had to miss many a holiday party, wedding and birthday because of my wd, and these are all choices we have to make or not make to stabilize. Having to interact at events was too much for my system to handle.

 

I can't tell you what the equivalent of "quarantining" your cns should look like for you, but if your not doing necessary "self care" and changing your routine to match the fact that your temporarily disabled to a certain extent, and that your cns needs rest, than you won't progress as fast as you could. But you've gone from being certain it's smart to stay at 2.0mgs to know wanted to change in just a few days and I don't think your taking into account your environmental issues that can make you worse. Perhaps if you had only one get together Christmas eve and not 2 in a row your symptoms may not be as bad afterwards. 

 

Many of us are being even MORE careful about not getting together with people outside our household and staying quarantined because for us to get sick with Covid while IN WD when anti biotics can make us worse has made us decide the "risk" of getting together this year just isn't worth it.

 

Only you can decide what that risk should be for you, but again, 2 different "visits" 2 days in a row would be a symptom trigger no doubt.  Only you can go back through the past few months and know if you have been doing things against self care that could accidentally be triggering symptoms and working against stabilization.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 Starting ds 2 (12.5 CR'S) = 25 MG PAXIL CR 1/21/15: 1 Pill + 10mg liquid (2 weeks) 2/4: 1 Pill + 9mg Lq (3 weeks) 2/25: 1 Pill + 8 mg lq (1 week) 3/4: 1 Pill + 6 mg lq (2 weeks) 3/18/15 1 Pill + 4 mg lq (2 weeks) 4/1/15 1 Pill + 3 mg lq (2 weeks) 4/14/15 1 Pill + 2 mg lq (2 weeks) 4/29/15 1Pill + 1 mg lq (16 days) 5/15/15 1 12.5 mg Pill ONLY (9 days) 5/24/15 12 mgs liquid (8 days) 6/1/15 11mg lq (12 days) 6/13/15 10 mg.  12/3/15 Drop from 8mg to 7.6 (24 days to) 12/27/15 7.2mgs 8/4/16 6.8mgs,  11/1/16 6.4mgs, 2/5/17 6 mgs  4/3/17 5.6mgs, 4/24/17 5.2mg, 6/13/17 4.8mgs, 9/20/17 4.4mgS, 11/23/17 4 mgs, 1/1/18 3.6 mgs, 2/15/18 3.2 mgs. 4/13/18 2.8mgs, 5/11/18 2.4mgs, 6/10/18 2.0 mgs, 8/4/18 1.6mgs,  9/27/18 1.2mgs, 12/24/18 0.8mg, 3/24/19 0.64 mg,(syringe change issue date?) 4/22/19 0.60 mg, 5/24/19 0.60 mg, 7/7/19 0.52 mgs, 8/4/19 0.44mgs, 11/4/19 0.36mgs, 2/1/20 0.28mgs, 3/1/20 0.24mgs (crash April 6) Compound started 6/28/21: 0.24mgs, 8/29/21: 0.22mgs, 10/31/21: 0.20mgs, 1/03/22: 0.18mgs, 3/5/22: 0.16mgs, 5/5/22: 0.14mgs.

 

Original Wellbutrin Dose: 6 months from 9/14 to 3/2015, 300 XL 3/15/15: Half to 150 XL ( severe symptoms started on day 12) 4/16/15: 125mg   for 20 days to: 5/6/15:   100mg  for  15 days to: 5/21/15    75mg  for  10 days to: 6/1/15:  56.25mg      13 days to: 6/13/15: 37.25mg    7 days to: 6/20/15  28.12mg   14 days to: 7/4/15  18.75mg, 7 days to: 7/11/15; RAISE BACK TO: 28.12 to 8/14/15: 18.75mg  20 days to :9/3/15 : 12.5mg, 8/4/16 9mg 1/9/17: 8.5mg 2/8/17 8mg, 3/9/17: 7.6  4/9/17  7.2  5/27/17 6.4 6/24/17 5.8, 8/1/17 5.0, 8/29/17 4.2mgs, 10/2/17 3.5mgs, 12/28/17 2.5mgs, 2/27/18 1.7mgs,  4/19/18 0.8 mgs, LAST DOSE: 6/11/18:  3 YEARS, 2 MONTHS, 27 DAYS...

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39 minutes ago, Colonial said:

I also hate to keep bringing the Naltrexone and the other things you took with it up but you may not be giving that enough "negative credit" has to why your not progressing as fast as you would hope.  It's only been about 2 months now. We have people who are here for adverse reactions to meds they only took a few days and they do take quite a bit of time to stabilize.

You might be right @Colonial, but with all due respect you have brought this issue up several times now, as if you want me to be absolutely sure I understand that my taking Naltrexone and two supplements briefly was a foolish thing to do and that I must be repeatedly scolded for it. And of course you know nothing of the circumstances in which I did that. I don't see how my failure to given "enough negative credit" to this decision can have any bearing on my present state of progress or lack thereof. I would not mind knowing whether another moderator or two think that members should be repeatedly reminded of what may or may not have been a brief, ill-advised decision.

 

51 minutes ago, Colonial said:

I don't think dropping back to 1.8mg would be either beneficial or harmful, but it could make your symptoms worse,

By beneficial or harmful, I'm of course referring to my symptoms. What else could I have meant?

 

53 minutes ago, Colonial said:

The Holidays are very stressful times in and of themselves, any stress, even happy stress can provoke symptoms. I don't know what you are or are not doing to try to keep your life as stress free as possible or what you feel "obligated" to do, but I simply could not spend more than 90 minutes around people without paying the price in symptoms and then it would take me days to recover.  It's great that you got to see 2 different children and their families 2 days in a row but it doesn't surprise me that that sort of interaction at an emotional time of year would lead to another round of symptoms.

Again, with all due respect, you don't know anything about my family--who they are, what they are like, what precautions we take when meeting, the fact that my already vaccinated son-in-law is a nurse dealing with Covid sufferers every day. Nor do you know that just because my wife and I saw our dear families for a few hours we risked too much "holiday stress" or that I might not understand anything about holiday stress and what might contribute to it. with As you admit, you also don't know anything about how I have responded to the stresses of Covid or in what ways and to what extent my wife and I have isolated ourselves. SA moderators are not Covid advisers. I find several of your remarks quite presumptuous.

 

1 hour ago, Colonial said:

But you've gone from being certain it's smart to stay at 2.0mgs to know wanted to change in just a few days and I don't think your taking into account your environmental issues that can make you worse. Perhaps if you had only one get together Christmas eve and not 2 in a row your symptoms may not be as bad afterwards. 

Here, you are scolding me for asking a question about down-dosing 0.2 mg, and you are eager to point out that this question is inconsistent with what I said a couple of days ago. Naughty, naughty, Edmunds! And you don't know anything about my "environmental issues" other than that my wife and I spent some time with our closest family. (Indeed, you conjure up a picture of a dozen or more relatives, including uncles and cousins we don't like, around a big dinner table, all of us shouting and breathing on one another without masks.)

 

1 hour ago, Colonial said:

Only you can go back through the past few months and know if you have been doing things against self care that could accidentally be triggering symptoms and working against stabilization.

1 hour ago, Colonial said:

 

That's right, only I can know, but on the sole basis of my mention seeing my children and grandchildren, you presume to tell me that my self-care may well have been deficient.

 

I've been patient and noncommittal about the presumptuous and rather hectoring tone you have taken in earlier messages, an approach I have not experienced with @Altostrataor any of the other wonderful moderators. Although I decided I must now respond to this querulous tone, I find that doing it raises my anxiety level much higher than did a few hours with my family over the holidays. I really would prefer to communicate with a different moderator.

Fluoxetine 1997-2014, 2015, 10-40 mg. GAD and DR symptoms returned  April 2013.

Bupropion 2013-14, 4 mos; Lexapro 2014; Cymbalta 2014. Gabapentin 2014; Mirtazapene 2014. Buspirone 2015.

Venlafaxine Dec. 2015 – May 2019, 150 mg, tapered to 0 in 3 weeks, May-June 2019

Bupropion Mar 2017 – July 2019 300 mg, tapered to 0 in 3 weeks, July 2019

Fluoxetine/Prozac May 2019 – present, tapered from 20 mg started Jan 2020, linear 10% every 4 wks.; tapered 6 to 4 mg June, 2, 2020; 4 to 1.8 mg Aug. 26, 2020; updose from 1.8 mg to 2.0 Nov. 16, 2020. Holding at 2.0 mg as of Mar 14,2021. April 14, 2021 updosed to 2.5 mg.

D3 2,000 mg; Omega 3 360 EPA/240 DHA; Magnesium Chelate 250 mg; Inositol powder started Nov 12, 2020; Theanine 400 mg; cranial electrotherapy stimulation device, self-treatments started Mar 14, 2021.

 

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24 minutes ago, Edmunds said:

as if you want me to be absolutely sure I understand that my taking Naltrexone and two supplements briefly was a foolish thing to do and that I must be repeatedly scolded for it.

 

I think you are the one making assumptions as per motive, Sir.

I am not in anyway making a negative judgement on your or using it as an effort to "scold" you.

I am simply relaying the truth, that any staff would have you keep in mind.

That these issues are broader than just the dose of one med and not that much time has gone by since the adverse reaction to not keep in mind this is still in play. That is not "scolding", you are reading into things.

 

29 minutes ago, Edmunds said:
2 hours ago, Colonial said:

 

By beneficial or harmful, I'm of course referring to my symptoms. What else could I have meant?

 

I don't know, since symptoms are not, in and of themselves, "harmful".

Unpleasant, yes, but they do not lead to "harm" or long term damage.

 So because you were not specific enough with your concern I could someone "know" what you meant?

Sarcastic replies to staff who are attempting to help will not be tolerated.

 

33 minutes ago, Edmunds said:

I find several of your remarks quite presumptuous.

 

It's not presumptuous to comment on past "facts" as we have seen them play out in the past:

"That too much, even "happy stress" leads to an uptick in symptoms.

My comment was on the need for self care for the CNS, not on your personal virus risk but they parallel

36 minutes ago, Edmunds said:

Here, you are scolding me for asking a question about down-dosing 0.2 mg, and you are eager to point out that this question is inconsistent with what I said a couple of days ago. Naughty, naughty, Edmunds! And you don't know anything about my "environmental issues" other than that my wife and I spent some time with our closest family. (Indeed, you conjure up a picture of a dozen or more relatives, including uncles and cousins we don't like, around a big dinner table, all of us shouting and breathing on one another without masks.)

 

Again Sir, "scolding" is some assumption your bringing to my intent, and that I am so "eager" to point out your inconsistencies points to some wish that the truth of what I'm discussing is something you don't want to consider.  I no where conjure up dozens of people, or whatever negative imagination you think I am projecting about your particular situation.  Your reaction is completely erratic and emotion based than logical, as all I have done is opened the discussion for what I personally know from my case and others here , that too much interaction, even happy interaction, leads to symptom uptick.

43 minutes ago, Edmunds said:

you presume to tell me that my self-care may well have been deficient.

, I "presume" to offer it as a possibility, yes, as it does tend to be something that happens.

 

45 minutes ago, Edmunds said:

 the presumptuous and rather hectoring tone you have taken in earlier messages,  I decided I must now respond to this querulous tone, I find that doing it raises my anxiety level much higher than did a few hours with my family over the holidays.

 

I have been neither presumptuous, hectoring nor querulous.  You have asked honest questions, and I have attempted to provide honest answers based on all of the case histories and experience of all members.

If you are not in a place to receive those replies without assuming the worst of staffs motives then perhaps you need time to decide why that is that your reacting to what are only "facts". You ask for help, and then when someone takes the time to give possible answers you have a temper tantrum if they are not to your liking or perhaps hit too close to home. 

 

If you are unhappy with all of the free assistance you have been provided here there are other sites that you may choose from, but being sarcastic and verbally abusive to staff will not continue to be tolerated.

 

Perhaps you should take some time to reflect upon why you've just had the reaction you did, and what "untruths" and assumptions you've formed against Me to think I have had a record of being unfair to you when all I have done is provide you a complete picture on how to go about forming the best plan possible for going forward in your recovery and what things you may have overlooked.

 

What will get you warned
Here are a few things that may get you warnings:

- Arguing with Staff in a topic or in a PM. You may present your case reasonably; take care about your tone. Once you get a decision, accept it gracefully. Mistakes may be made, give us the benefit of the doubt, we're trying to keep the peace for the greater good.

 Starting ds 2 (12.5 CR'S) = 25 MG PAXIL CR 1/21/15: 1 Pill + 10mg liquid (2 weeks) 2/4: 1 Pill + 9mg Lq (3 weeks) 2/25: 1 Pill + 8 mg lq (1 week) 3/4: 1 Pill + 6 mg lq (2 weeks) 3/18/15 1 Pill + 4 mg lq (2 weeks) 4/1/15 1 Pill + 3 mg lq (2 weeks) 4/14/15 1 Pill + 2 mg lq (2 weeks) 4/29/15 1Pill + 1 mg lq (16 days) 5/15/15 1 12.5 mg Pill ONLY (9 days) 5/24/15 12 mgs liquid (8 days) 6/1/15 11mg lq (12 days) 6/13/15 10 mg.  12/3/15 Drop from 8mg to 7.6 (24 days to) 12/27/15 7.2mgs 8/4/16 6.8mgs,  11/1/16 6.4mgs, 2/5/17 6 mgs  4/3/17 5.6mgs, 4/24/17 5.2mg, 6/13/17 4.8mgs, 9/20/17 4.4mgS, 11/23/17 4 mgs, 1/1/18 3.6 mgs, 2/15/18 3.2 mgs. 4/13/18 2.8mgs, 5/11/18 2.4mgs, 6/10/18 2.0 mgs, 8/4/18 1.6mgs,  9/27/18 1.2mgs, 12/24/18 0.8mg, 3/24/19 0.64 mg,(syringe change issue date?) 4/22/19 0.60 mg, 5/24/19 0.60 mg, 7/7/19 0.52 mgs, 8/4/19 0.44mgs, 11/4/19 0.36mgs, 2/1/20 0.28mgs, 3/1/20 0.24mgs (crash April 6) Compound started 6/28/21: 0.24mgs, 8/29/21: 0.22mgs, 10/31/21: 0.20mgs, 1/03/22: 0.18mgs, 3/5/22: 0.16mgs, 5/5/22: 0.14mgs.

 

Original Wellbutrin Dose: 6 months from 9/14 to 3/2015, 300 XL 3/15/15: Half to 150 XL ( severe symptoms started on day 12) 4/16/15: 125mg   for 20 days to: 5/6/15:   100mg  for  15 days to: 5/21/15    75mg  for  10 days to: 6/1/15:  56.25mg      13 days to: 6/13/15: 37.25mg    7 days to: 6/20/15  28.12mg   14 days to: 7/4/15  18.75mg, 7 days to: 7/11/15; RAISE BACK TO: 28.12 to 8/14/15: 18.75mg  20 days to :9/3/15 : 12.5mg, 8/4/16 9mg 1/9/17: 8.5mg 2/8/17 8mg, 3/9/17: 7.6  4/9/17  7.2  5/27/17 6.4 6/24/17 5.8, 8/1/17 5.0, 8/29/17 4.2mgs, 10/2/17 3.5mgs, 12/28/17 2.5mgs, 2/27/18 1.7mgs,  4/19/18 0.8 mgs, LAST DOSE: 6/11/18:  3 YEARS, 2 MONTHS, 27 DAYS...

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I shared our exchange today with my wife. She concluded that I could have said whatever was on my mind without anger and recrimination. Reading what I wrote again, I agreed with her. For what it's worth at this point, I do apologize. My words no doubt had to do with my uncertain state of mind.

Fluoxetine 1997-2014, 2015, 10-40 mg. GAD and DR symptoms returned  April 2013.

Bupropion 2013-14, 4 mos; Lexapro 2014; Cymbalta 2014. Gabapentin 2014; Mirtazapene 2014. Buspirone 2015.

Venlafaxine Dec. 2015 – May 2019, 150 mg, tapered to 0 in 3 weeks, May-June 2019

Bupropion Mar 2017 – July 2019 300 mg, tapered to 0 in 3 weeks, July 2019

Fluoxetine/Prozac May 2019 – present, tapered from 20 mg started Jan 2020, linear 10% every 4 wks.; tapered 6 to 4 mg June, 2, 2020; 4 to 1.8 mg Aug. 26, 2020; updose from 1.8 mg to 2.0 Nov. 16, 2020. Holding at 2.0 mg as of Mar 14,2021. April 14, 2021 updosed to 2.5 mg.

D3 2,000 mg; Omega 3 360 EPA/240 DHA; Magnesium Chelate 250 mg; Inositol powder started Nov 12, 2020; Theanine 400 mg; cranial electrotherapy stimulation device, self-treatments started Mar 14, 2021.

 

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Any change in routine, different/additional stimuli (noise/lights/music/talking), change in bed time/hours slept etc can all add stress to our nervous system, even a nervous system that hasn't been sensitised.  Just think about how young children can become fractious or over excited.  And even over eating can cause more stress on your body too.

 

Q:  Did you consume any alcohol?

* NO LONGER ACTIVE on SA *

MISSION ACCOMPLISHED:  (6 year taper)      0mg Pristiq  on 13th November 2021

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering from Oct 2015 - 13 Nov 2021   LAST DOSE 0.0025mg

Post 0 updates start here    My tapering program     My Intro (goes to tapering graph)

 VIDEO:   Antidepressant Withdrawal Syndrome and its Management

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Thanks @ChessieCat  you are right about all these stress triggers. I’ve learned a few lessons about them the hard way but have tried diligently to minimize distress-producing habits and situations. I’ve consumed no alcohol or caffeine over the past year or more. More recently I’ve cut way back on sugar consumption, though I did have a piece of Christmas pie🥧 I appreciate your concern. 

Fluoxetine 1997-2014, 2015, 10-40 mg. GAD and DR symptoms returned  April 2013.

Bupropion 2013-14, 4 mos; Lexapro 2014; Cymbalta 2014. Gabapentin 2014; Mirtazapene 2014. Buspirone 2015.

Venlafaxine Dec. 2015 – May 2019, 150 mg, tapered to 0 in 3 weeks, May-June 2019

Bupropion Mar 2017 – July 2019 300 mg, tapered to 0 in 3 weeks, July 2019

Fluoxetine/Prozac May 2019 – present, tapered from 20 mg started Jan 2020, linear 10% every 4 wks.; tapered 6 to 4 mg June, 2, 2020; 4 to 1.8 mg Aug. 26, 2020; updose from 1.8 mg to 2.0 Nov. 16, 2020. Holding at 2.0 mg as of Mar 14,2021. April 14, 2021 updosed to 2.5 mg.

D3 2,000 mg; Omega 3 360 EPA/240 DHA; Magnesium Chelate 250 mg; Inositol powder started Nov 12, 2020; Theanine 400 mg; cranial electrotherapy stimulation device, self-treatments started Mar 14, 2021.

 

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Best of luck to You moving forward.

I hope you find the answers to the larger questions you seek.

Have a Happy New Year.

 Starting ds 2 (12.5 CR'S) = 25 MG PAXIL CR 1/21/15: 1 Pill + 10mg liquid (2 weeks) 2/4: 1 Pill + 9mg Lq (3 weeks) 2/25: 1 Pill + 8 mg lq (1 week) 3/4: 1 Pill + 6 mg lq (2 weeks) 3/18/15 1 Pill + 4 mg lq (2 weeks) 4/1/15 1 Pill + 3 mg lq (2 weeks) 4/14/15 1 Pill + 2 mg lq (2 weeks) 4/29/15 1Pill + 1 mg lq (16 days) 5/15/15 1 12.5 mg Pill ONLY (9 days) 5/24/15 12 mgs liquid (8 days) 6/1/15 11mg lq (12 days) 6/13/15 10 mg.  12/3/15 Drop from 8mg to 7.6 (24 days to) 12/27/15 7.2mgs 8/4/16 6.8mgs,  11/1/16 6.4mgs, 2/5/17 6 mgs  4/3/17 5.6mgs, 4/24/17 5.2mg, 6/13/17 4.8mgs, 9/20/17 4.4mgS, 11/23/17 4 mgs, 1/1/18 3.6 mgs, 2/15/18 3.2 mgs. 4/13/18 2.8mgs, 5/11/18 2.4mgs, 6/10/18 2.0 mgs, 8/4/18 1.6mgs,  9/27/18 1.2mgs, 12/24/18 0.8mg, 3/24/19 0.64 mg,(syringe change issue date?) 4/22/19 0.60 mg, 5/24/19 0.60 mg, 7/7/19 0.52 mgs, 8/4/19 0.44mgs, 11/4/19 0.36mgs, 2/1/20 0.28mgs, 3/1/20 0.24mgs (crash April 6) Compound started 6/28/21: 0.24mgs, 8/29/21: 0.22mgs, 10/31/21: 0.20mgs, 1/03/22: 0.18mgs, 3/5/22: 0.16mgs, 5/5/22: 0.14mgs.

 

Original Wellbutrin Dose: 6 months from 9/14 to 3/2015, 300 XL 3/15/15: Half to 150 XL ( severe symptoms started on day 12) 4/16/15: 125mg   for 20 days to: 5/6/15:   100mg  for  15 days to: 5/21/15    75mg  for  10 days to: 6/1/15:  56.25mg      13 days to: 6/13/15: 37.25mg    7 days to: 6/20/15  28.12mg   14 days to: 7/4/15  18.75mg, 7 days to: 7/11/15; RAISE BACK TO: 28.12 to 8/14/15: 18.75mg  20 days to :9/3/15 : 12.5mg, 8/4/16 9mg 1/9/17: 8.5mg 2/8/17 8mg, 3/9/17: 7.6  4/9/17  7.2  5/27/17 6.4 6/24/17 5.8, 8/1/17 5.0, 8/29/17 4.2mgs, 10/2/17 3.5mgs, 12/28/17 2.5mgs, 2/27/18 1.7mgs,  4/19/18 0.8 mgs, LAST DOSE: 6/11/18:  3 YEARS, 2 MONTHS, 27 DAYS...

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  • Moderator Emeritus
22 hours ago, Edmunds said:

More recently I’ve cut way back on sugar consumption, though I did have a piece of Christmas pie🥧

 

Cookies were my downfall!!!  I think they brought a bit of ultra sensitivity for me.  And not the good, perceptual kind.  Just easily thrown into weird old thinking patterns.  Eh!!

I rarely crave sugar anymore, which is great.  Something about Christmas and cookies........hmmm, poor ole Santa.

Hope the Holidays have been good to you Edmunds, as you continue to be a trooper!  And the New Year begins very well.

 

Oh, I spy a recent window for you too.  Yay.

 

Best, and L, P, H, and G,

mmt

Late 2023- gone to emeritus status, inactive, don't @ me, I can check who I've posted on, and I'm not really here like I used to be......thanks.

Started with psycho meds/psychiatric care circa 1988.  In retrospect, and on contemplation, situational overwhelm.

Rounding up to 30 years of medications(30 medication trials, poly-pharmacy maximum was 3 at one time).

5/28/2015-off Adderal salts 2.5mg. (I had been on that since hospital 10/2014)

12/2015---just holding, holding, holding, with trileptal/oxcarb at 75 mg. 1/2 tab at hs.  My last psycho med ever!  Tapered @ 10% every 4 weeks, sometimes 2 weeks to

2016 Dec 16 medication free!!

Longer signature post here, with current supplements.

Herb and alcohol free since 5/15/2016.  And.....I quit smoking 11/2021. Lapsed.  Redo of quit smoking 9/28/2022.  Can you say Hallelujah?(took me long enough)💜

None of my posts are intended as medical advice.  Please discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical provider.  My success story:  Blue skies ahead, clear sailing

 

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I need to report in this morning. @ChessieCat wrote a few days ago about some of the stressful situations that might contribute to a bad reaction. This morning I awoke at 4:30 with an intense surge of anxiety, not just the usual cortisol spike I've been getting at a normal wake-up time. I tried to focus on breathing, but all sorts of distressful thoughts kept crowding in. By about 6:00 am I appealed to my wife for help, and she gave me the loving comfort she always does. I did a lot of crying in great despair for the next hour or so. The sharp anxiety gradually calmed down, but it's left me as of now, 9:15 am, totally exhausted and with the usual moderate anxiety and constant  derealization.

 

Yesterday from mid morning to early afternoon I had an anxiety surge. It later calmed, as it tends always to do in time. Later in the afternoon I walked about a mile to an Amazon store to return a book. This was a much more stressful episode than I imagined it would be--having to tap out the return information on my iPhone, getting it wrong, doing it all with a mask on and my glasses fogging up, while in a state of intense derealization. I did the job, walked back home, just when my dear wife arrived from her studio. I managed the rest of the evening, despite fearful thoughts about the pandemic and the irrational, malevolent politicians and deranged president  who are trying to bring down this country's democratic republic. I went to sleep with no trouble, then awoke at 4:30 in an anxiety crisis.

 

A connection with the previous day's events? Could well be. Or is this  a nasty wave that's just my brain working unusually hard to reorganize itself, a process now going on since my fast taper from Effexor in June 2019?

 

I continue to hold at 2 mgs of liquid Prozac, 8 weeks and 3 days now. During that time and in the previous several months, I've had no sustained windows, not for more than part of a day now and then, though when that happens, I always feel a surge of hope. An episode like this morning, however, frightens me that I'm making no progress.

Fluoxetine 1997-2014, 2015, 10-40 mg. GAD and DR symptoms returned  April 2013.

Bupropion 2013-14, 4 mos; Lexapro 2014; Cymbalta 2014. Gabapentin 2014; Mirtazapene 2014. Buspirone 2015.

Venlafaxine Dec. 2015 – May 2019, 150 mg, tapered to 0 in 3 weeks, May-June 2019

Bupropion Mar 2017 – July 2019 300 mg, tapered to 0 in 3 weeks, July 2019

Fluoxetine/Prozac May 2019 – present, tapered from 20 mg started Jan 2020, linear 10% every 4 wks.; tapered 6 to 4 mg June, 2, 2020; 4 to 1.8 mg Aug. 26, 2020; updose from 1.8 mg to 2.0 Nov. 16, 2020. Holding at 2.0 mg as of Mar 14,2021. April 14, 2021 updosed to 2.5 mg.

D3 2,000 mg; Omega 3 360 EPA/240 DHA; Magnesium Chelate 250 mg; Inositol powder started Nov 12, 2020; Theanine 400 mg; cranial electrotherapy stimulation device, self-treatments started Mar 14, 2021.

 

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  • Moderator Emeritus

You mightn't think that you are making progress but you did manage to get through the ordeal of returning the book.  I think that being able to do that is definitely progress.  Your focus was probably on the negative/difficulties and you haven't realised that possibly not that long ago you would not have even been able to go to the store let alone do what needed to be done when you got there.

* NO LONGER ACTIVE on SA *

MISSION ACCOMPLISHED:  (6 year taper)      0mg Pristiq  on 13th November 2021

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering from Oct 2015 - 13 Nov 2021   LAST DOSE 0.0025mg

Post 0 updates start here    My tapering program     My Intro (goes to tapering graph)

 VIDEO:   Antidepressant Withdrawal Syndrome and its Management

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Thanks @ChessieCat for that encouragement. My wife does virtually all the shopping for us, but I can certainly go into a market if I really need to. It's interesting that in a state of anxiety and derealization, the anticipation of doing that, or doing just about anything that involves sights, sounds, and sensory overload, as you have said, is harder to cope with than the actual deed.

Fluoxetine 1997-2014, 2015, 10-40 mg. GAD and DR symptoms returned  April 2013.

Bupropion 2013-14, 4 mos; Lexapro 2014; Cymbalta 2014. Gabapentin 2014; Mirtazapene 2014. Buspirone 2015.

Venlafaxine Dec. 2015 – May 2019, 150 mg, tapered to 0 in 3 weeks, May-June 2019

Bupropion Mar 2017 – July 2019 300 mg, tapered to 0 in 3 weeks, July 2019

Fluoxetine/Prozac May 2019 – present, tapered from 20 mg started Jan 2020, linear 10% every 4 wks.; tapered 6 to 4 mg June, 2, 2020; 4 to 1.8 mg Aug. 26, 2020; updose from 1.8 mg to 2.0 Nov. 16, 2020. Holding at 2.0 mg as of Mar 14,2021. April 14, 2021 updosed to 2.5 mg.

D3 2,000 mg; Omega 3 360 EPA/240 DHA; Magnesium Chelate 250 mg; Inositol powder started Nov 12, 2020; Theanine 400 mg; cranial electrotherapy stimulation device, self-treatments started Mar 14, 2021.

 

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Just wanted to tell you to not loose hope. I was loosing hope a few days ago and all of sudden a started experiencing windows of depersonalization.... it was reduced half in intensity for a few hrs for four days in a row. Now it’s back but those windows gave me hope. Please say hi and congratulations to your lovely wife for her support. Not all spouses are like her, u are a lucky one in that respect!!!

Aug. 16-17, 2020, cipralex: went CRAZY! Recovered in 24hrs

Aug.28,2020; 3.5 weeks 25mg sertraline/4.5 weeks taper

Oct. 25: Last dose (4mg)

Symptoms while on zoloft

DPDR/out of my body/soul despair/feeling dead; tinnitus/no appetite; fear, anxiety/panics

4 months OFF: soul despair, anxiety/fear, brain disconnection/ DPDR, brain feels swollen-numb/crazy/bedridden barely functioning, tinnitus, eye lid twitches; face spasms. Feeling slightly better after 10pm.

- sleep & appetite are fine

9 months OFF: hell, no windows, same symptoms as above  (only eye and face twitches have stopped) plus intense arm/shoulder pain and visual issues. Tinnitus replaced by head buzzing. 

10 months-1 year: all above plus Insomnia (out of nowhere), depression, no peace of mind (mental Akathisia); 2.5mg melatonin

14months off: sleep resumed. All rest symptoms remain. Bedridden vegetable all day. DP is relentless. 

1.5 years off: still severely disabled, not much changed except some improvement in vision.

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@ChessieCat

Just short of 7 weeks ago I followed @Altostrata advice and updosed my liquid fluoexetine from 1.8 to 2.0 mgs. As of tomorrow, I will have been on 2.0 for 7 weeks. I did the updose on Nov. 16, 2020 and had been on 1.8 for 11.5 weeks before that.

 

Since the updose 7 weeks ago, I have not had much change in symptoms, which for me are feelings of anxiety/distress which go up and down during the day, heavy derealization disconnect/fogginess, and fatigue. I also have had early morning anxiety most days.

 

Should I consider any change at all? Clearly I'm eager to resume my taper. Should I consider returning to 1.8 mgs? I have not done micro-tapering as guided by BrassMonkey. Should I consider that?

Fluoxetine 1997-2014, 2015, 10-40 mg. GAD and DR symptoms returned  April 2013.

Bupropion 2013-14, 4 mos; Lexapro 2014; Cymbalta 2014. Gabapentin 2014; Mirtazapene 2014. Buspirone 2015.

Venlafaxine Dec. 2015 – May 2019, 150 mg, tapered to 0 in 3 weeks, May-June 2019

Bupropion Mar 2017 – July 2019 300 mg, tapered to 0 in 3 weeks, July 2019

Fluoxetine/Prozac May 2019 – present, tapered from 20 mg started Jan 2020, linear 10% every 4 wks.; tapered 6 to 4 mg June, 2, 2020; 4 to 1.8 mg Aug. 26, 2020; updose from 1.8 mg to 2.0 Nov. 16, 2020. Holding at 2.0 mg as of Mar 14,2021. April 14, 2021 updosed to 2.5 mg.

D3 2,000 mg; Omega 3 360 EPA/240 DHA; Magnesium Chelate 250 mg; Inositol powder started Nov 12, 2020; Theanine 400 mg; cranial electrotherapy stimulation device, self-treatments started Mar 14, 2021.

 

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  • Administrator

Are your symptoms worse at any particular times of day?

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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14 hours ago, Altostrata said:

Are your symptoms worse at any particular times of day?

Thanks for checking in on me @Altostrata. At present I experience no clear pattern of change in symptoms during the day, though usually feelings of distress back off in mid-to-late evening so that I rarely go to bed in a state of anxiety. Anxiety is typically a bit tougher in the morning hours, which is when I'm most apt to break out in tears. Interestingly, it's not worry and suffering that make me cry but thoughts of the loved ones around me, especially my four grandchildren.

 

One longer term change has been a reduction in sharp anxiety surges that last up to an hour or more. For the past several months the pattern has been a more constant feeling of anxiety/distress throughout the day. It's miserable, but I also continue to function reasonably well at home.

 

The derealization fog doesn't change at all and hasn't for many months, although it's easier to bear when I'm home in a confined space, even when I'm focused narrowly on my computer screen, as I am now. One study of DP/DR observes that people with it "tend to have a difficult  time taking in a lot of information at once; even familiar environments may seem overstimulating and overwhelming." So, I tend to want to avoid going into stores or being in bright sunlight." Regarding social interaction, I haven't tested my response to it much owing to Covid isolation!

 

As I'm writing this, I've just had a 10-minute ocular migraine--no significant pain, just a particular visual disturbance. These have occurred occasionally for decades, but more frequently since WD started. I talked to a neurologist about this not long ago, and she said that this greater recurrence may well be connected to WD. I know that members have pointed this out.

 

Let me know if you think I should or should not consider any dose change at this point.

 

 

Fluoxetine 1997-2014, 2015, 10-40 mg. GAD and DR symptoms returned  April 2013.

Bupropion 2013-14, 4 mos; Lexapro 2014; Cymbalta 2014. Gabapentin 2014; Mirtazapene 2014. Buspirone 2015.

Venlafaxine Dec. 2015 – May 2019, 150 mg, tapered to 0 in 3 weeks, May-June 2019

Bupropion Mar 2017 – July 2019 300 mg, tapered to 0 in 3 weeks, July 2019

Fluoxetine/Prozac May 2019 – present, tapered from 20 mg started Jan 2020, linear 10% every 4 wks.; tapered 6 to 4 mg June, 2, 2020; 4 to 1.8 mg Aug. 26, 2020; updose from 1.8 mg to 2.0 Nov. 16, 2020. Holding at 2.0 mg as of Mar 14,2021. April 14, 2021 updosed to 2.5 mg.

D3 2,000 mg; Omega 3 360 EPA/240 DHA; Magnesium Chelate 250 mg; Inositol powder started Nov 12, 2020; Theanine 400 mg; cranial electrotherapy stimulation device, self-treatments started Mar 14, 2021.

 

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  • Administrator

It's very typical that people feel worse in the morning, starting with the normal cortisol surge, and better in the evening.

 

9 hours ago, Edmunds said:

One longer term change has been a reduction in sharp anxiety surges that last up to an hour or more. For the past several months the pattern has been a more constant feeling of anxiety/distress throughout the day. It's miserable, but I also continue to function reasonably well at home.

 

This may not seem like it, but it is an improvement. Did it coincide with your slight updose of Prozac?

 

9 hours ago, Edmunds said:

So, I tend to want to avoid going into stores or being in bright sunlight.

 

Are you wearing tinted glasses to cut down on light stimulation? This may trigger ocular migraines as well.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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14 hours ago, Altostrata said:

It's very typical that people feel worse in the morning, starting with the normal cortisol surge, and better in the evening.

 

 

This may not seem like it, but it is an improvement. Did it coincide with your slight updose of Prozac?

 

 

Are you wearing tinted glasses to cut down on light stimulation? This may trigger ocular migraines as well.

Thanks @Altostrata for the encouraging words. I would say that the change in symptom pattern--from sharp anxiety surges during the day to a more consistent daily experience of distress/anxiety/DR fog--preceded the updose from 1.8 to 2.0 mgs. In terms of daily discomfort in general I don't see any significant improvement since the updose, though I certainly agree with you that having fewer anxiety assaults qualifies as improvement. I've also had a few days (just a few) in the past 3-4 weeks when the morning cortisol spike does not occur at all or is very low.

 

Considering that the Prozac updose does not seem to have helped much, should I consider dropping back to 1.8 mgs? I will follow your advice.

 

I have some yellow tinted, non-prescription glasses I've used for computer work but not tinted prescription glasses. I can't do anything about that right now owing to complicated vision problems. Over the past 10 years, I've gradually developed serious esophoria (a type of double vision). I have been able to correct it with glasses with special prisms in the lenses, but it has reached a point where I will have a surgical procedure (amazingly done in the neuro-ophthalmologist's office in about an hour). But I won't do this until I can get vaccinated for Covid. The doctor also wants me to have a precautionary MRI before we schedule this procedure, but I have no appointment yet owing to the hospitals being overwhelmed in the Los Angeles area. At present I have to read with one eye mostly shut. I look forward to this procedure since DR causes mainly visual/perceptual symptoms and WD in general (or the continued Prozac use) may be causing somewhat blurred vision. So one less visual problem will be welcome.

Fluoxetine 1997-2014, 2015, 10-40 mg. GAD and DR symptoms returned  April 2013.

Bupropion 2013-14, 4 mos; Lexapro 2014; Cymbalta 2014. Gabapentin 2014; Mirtazapene 2014. Buspirone 2015.

Venlafaxine Dec. 2015 – May 2019, 150 mg, tapered to 0 in 3 weeks, May-June 2019

Bupropion Mar 2017 – July 2019 300 mg, tapered to 0 in 3 weeks, July 2019

Fluoxetine/Prozac May 2019 – present, tapered from 20 mg started Jan 2020, linear 10% every 4 wks.; tapered 6 to 4 mg June, 2, 2020; 4 to 1.8 mg Aug. 26, 2020; updose from 1.8 mg to 2.0 Nov. 16, 2020. Holding at 2.0 mg as of Mar 14,2021. April 14, 2021 updosed to 2.5 mg.

D3 2,000 mg; Omega 3 360 EPA/240 DHA; Magnesium Chelate 250 mg; Inositol powder started Nov 12, 2020; Theanine 400 mg; cranial electrotherapy stimulation device, self-treatments started Mar 14, 2021.

 

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  • Administrator

Since you've seen subtle improvement, f I were you, I would not make any changes in your Prozac dosage for a while. It's not unusual for people to take a multi-month break from tapering to let their nervous systems rest.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

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