Superwoman: Effexor taper

[Superwoman]

Tuesday October 27, 2020

 

On period

 

9:30am: wake up, headache 1

10am: headache 1
10:30am:  headache 2

11:30am: Armour Thyroid 120mg, 1C. Coffee, breakfast, upset stomach 3
12pm-3pm: bloating 3

12:30pm: Effexor xr 75 mg
2pm: sharp electric shock-like pains right thumb 4

4pm: filling out symptom log, anxiety 2
4:30pm: shiver sensation leg lasting few seconds 4, fatigue 4

7pm-8pm: cold nose 2
8pm-1am: ok

11:30am: Epsom salt bath 2 cups
12am: C. Poppy, EO’s, vitamin d lotion 5,000IU

12:30am: bed, insomnia 2
 

Notes Tuesday: headache 2, bloating 3, electric shock-like pains in body 4, anxiety 2, upset stomach 3, shiver sensation in body 4, fatigue 4, cold nose 2, insomnia 2

[Superwoman]

Wednesday October 28, 2020

 

On period

 

11am: wake up, headache 1

11:30am: breakfast, 1 C. Coffee, headache 1
12pm: Armour Thyroid 120mg, headache 1

12:30pm: Effexor xr 75mg. , headache 1
1pm: feeling better 
2pm4pm: working, anxiety 2, irritability 1, tense muscles 3

4pm-6pm: anxiety 2, flat mood 2, headaches and brain zaps 1, Jaw tension 3, muscle tension 3

6pm: dinner
6:30pm-8:30pm:anxiety 2, headache 2

8:30pm-10:30pm: ok
11:30pm: snack, bloating 3

12:30am: 4 droppers C. Poppy, EO’s, buzzers, vitamin d lotion, ok

1am: bed, insomnia 1, woke up multiple times but fell right back asleep 
 

Notes Wednesday: I was not as anxious at work as I expected.  I stayed fairly calm when I got behind on the jobs.  I have been taking Epsom salt baths consistently.  I have been taking the baths during the week some and on the weekend,  instead of only on the weekends.  I think this may be helping some with the work anxiety.   Headache 2, anxiety 2, irritability 1, tense muscles 3, worsened mood 2, brain zaps 1, jaw clenching 3, bloating 3, insomnia 1 

[Superwoman]

Thursday October 29, 2020

 

On period 

 

11am: alarm went off, pressed snooze 
11:30am: wake up

12pm: Armour Thyroid 120mg, brain zap 1, light headed spell lasting few seconds 1
12:30am: Effexor xr 75mg.   
1pm: 1 C. Coffee, anxiety 2
2pm-4pm: at work, anxiety 3

4pm-6pm: working, anxiety 4, jaw clenching 3
6pm: dinner

6:30pm-8:30pm: working, anxiety 3, jaw clenching 3
8:30-10:30pm: working, anxiety 2

11:30pm: snack, bloating and heartburn 2
12:30am: C. Poppy 4 droppers, EO’s, buzzers

1am: bed, shortness of breath, anxiety 2, insomnia 2
 

Notes Thursday: brain zap 1, dizzy spell 1, anxiety 4, jaw clenching 3,  bloating 2, heartburn 2, air hunger 2, insomnia 2

[sunnysideup69]

Hi @Superwoman, am following your taper with interest.

I'm also on Venlafaxine 75mg XR

Just out of interest, how are you tapering? Bead reduction method? And how are you finding it?

Best wishes,

SSU

[Superwoman]

5 hours ago, sunnysideup69 said:

Hi @Superwoman, am following your taper with interest.

I'm also on Venlafaxine 75mg XR

Just out of interest, how are you tapering? Bead reduction method? And how are you finding it?

Best wishes,

SSU

Hi Sunnyside, right now I am holding at 75 mg.   I am going to start tapering again soon.  I recently bid to a different job at work.   My previous area was stressful and  aggravating my symptoms.   I am waiting until I feel more settled in my new area at work and then I am going to start tapering again.   Maybe in a week or so, but I am going to play it by ear.   The taper from 112mg to 75 mg was much more manageable following the 10% reduction recommended here.   Before this I tapered by dropping a pill size every 6 weeks, which was pretty awful.   I tapered this last time by removing beads.  

[sunnysideup69]

Thanks for replying @Superwoman.....for sure, work stress plays havoc. Definitely wise to hold and stabilise, I think.

 

[Superwoman]

@sunnysideup69, How is your taper going?   How are you doing? 

[sunnysideup69]

2 minutes ago, Superwoman said:

@sunnysideup69, How is your taper going?   How are you doing? 

I've been holding at 75 for about 14 months.

I did a cold switch from another antidepressant and it has taken me this long to stabilise.

I'm going to wait a bit longer at this dosage and then switch from generic to Effexor, so that I can get beaded version, and then start a taper. Bit scared, but also excited 😊

[Superwoman]

3 hours ago, sunnysideup69 said:

I've been holding at 75 for about 14 months.

I did a cold switch from another antidepressant and it has taken me this long to stabilise.

I'm going to wait a bit longer at this dosage and then switch from generic to Effexor, so that I can get beaded version, and then start a taper. Bit scared, but also excited 😊

You might want to take a little less of brand name Effexor when you swing from generic.  I read on here that brand name is more potent than generic.   

[Superwoman]

Friday October 30, 2020

 

9:15: wake up 8 hrs sleep, tired

9:30am: breakfast, 2 C. Coffee, okay 
10am: driving to appt., shiver sensations leg 1

11am: acupuncture appt., muscle jumps, acupuncturist says this is normal and good sign.

12:30pm: Armour Thyroid 120mg., Effexor xr 75mg, 
2pm-4pm: working, anxiety 3, irritability 3, shortness of breath 2

4pm-6pm: anxiety 2, irritability 2, shortness of breath 1
6pm: dinner

6:30pm-8:30pm: anxiety 3, shortness of breath 2
8:30pm-10:30pm: anxiety 3

11:30pm: snack, bloating 2
12:30am: C. poppy 4 droppers, vitamin d lotion, EO’s, buzzers 

1am: bed, insomnia 0
 

Notes Friday: Acupuncturist worked on the sexual dysfunction and mind and mood again.  Also added treatment for allergies and sensitivities and PAWS, b/c I think that the anxiety and sexual dysfunction is caused by Effexor side effects and PAWS.   This was my 4th acupuncture treatment.  Mood and sexual dysfunction may be slightly better, but I have not noticed much difference yet.  Acupuncturist said it takes at least 3 treatments to notice difference and for chronic, deep seated problems like this.  He said it is a marathon not a race.  Anxiety 3, irritability 3, shortness of breath 2, bloating 2, insomnia 0

[sunnysideup69]

12 hours ago, Superwoman said:

You might want to take a little less of brand name Effexor when you swing from generic.  I read on here that brand name is more potent than generic.   

Yeah, I was wondering the same....thanks, Superwoman. 

I need to research whether generic comes in bead format, also, as that could avoid problems with strength.

[Superwoman]

8 hours ago, sunnysideup69 said:

Yeah, I was wondering the same....thanks, Superwoman. 

I need to research whether generic comes in bead format, also, as that could avoid problems with strength.

In the USA the generic and brand name is in bead form.   Different countries have different formats though.  I am sure there are other member’s here from Britain on Effexor.  They might know if it comes in bead form in generic.  I also read on here that when people switch from generic to name brand they take part of the name brand and part of the generic for a period of time.  This is to help body adjust.  

[Superwoman]

Saturday October 31, 2020

 

10:30am: wake up, breakfast, 1 C. Coffee, ok

11am: Armour Thyroid 120mg
11:30am: Effexor xr 75mg

12pm-4pm: ok, with family 
4pm: brain zaps 3, lasting 30 minutes, flat mood 2

5pm: arrive home, fatigue 4, depression 2, brain zaps 3
5:30pm: filling out symptom log, trouble focusing 4, fatigue 5

10:30pm: Epsom salt bath 2 cups
11pm: reading, anxiety 1, brain zaps 3

12:30am: C. poppy, 4 droppers, anxiety and brain zaps gone
1am: bed, buzzers, EO’s, electric shock sensations fingers 1

 

Notes Saturday: brain zaps 3, worsened mood 2, fatigue 5, trouble focusing 4, anxiety 1, electric shock sensation 1 in body. 

[Superwoman]

About 5 weeks ago I bid to a different job at the factory where I work.  My last job was not a good fit for me.  It was very physically and mentally demanding.  I was having difficulty learning the jobs and I believe that the work stress was increasing withdrawal symptoms.  Also, I had to walk over a moving conveyor and was concerned that I might loss my balance and fall if I get dizzy spells again when I start tapering again.  

 

I think that this was a good move.   I am working on the assembly line now.  feel more suited to this because I have worked on the assembly line before and there is no heavy lifting and it is not so mentally demanding either.  
 

My anxiety was still kind of high during training.  I always find training nerve racking.  I have been on my own now for 1 week.  I think the anxiety is lessening a little bit, now that I am feeling more comfortable with the jobs.   I think that I will feel calmer the better I get and less I get behind on the jobs.  Overall, the WD symptoms seem better being in a lower stress job.  
 

My concentration,  focus and memory is way better since switching jobs.   I was having a lot of trouble focusing at my last job.  I think this was because high anxiety and other WD symptoms were making it hard to focus.  Also, the job was more distracting.  I had to multitask and keep track of a lot.  There was a lot going on around me.  I also had to memorize and remember a lot of work material, that I had difficulty retaining.  
 

My prior job was also very changeable.  I have noticed that change really triggers anxiety in me.  Does change make other people anxious too?   On the assembly line, where I am now there is not a lot of change.   Do other people find that work stress worsens your WD symptoms?   The headache are also not as bad since I have switched jobs. 

[ChessieCat]

20 minutes ago, Superwoman said:

 Does change make other people anxious too?

 

Yes.

 

20 minutes ago, Superwoman said:

My concentration,  focus and memory is way better since switching jobs.

 

Just be aware that there may be times when you have a brain freeze.  When it happens it can be very alarming, especially if it is something that you know that you know how to do, something that you've been doing a lot of before with no issues and/or it is something very simple.  It can cause a bit of panic which is why it is good to know about it.  I have found that the best way to manage it is to stop.  If you can, walk away and look/think of something different, take a few deep breaths (I concentrate on my belly rising and falling) and tell yourself that you are okay. Then return to the task and try to go step by step.  Of course it will depend on your circumstances whether this is possible.  But if you can't walk away, even just a quick close your eyes, take a few deep breaths, tell yourself you are okay and go back to it.  I have found the worst thing is to try to keep going.  It just frazzles me.

 

A good example is if you can't remember your PIN when at the checkout.  I've noticed that if I look at the cashier or another person that it seems to unfreeze the part of the brain I've been using to try and remember the number.

 

I've heard a similar thing about people who work with numbers that switching to the other side of the brain by looking at a picture can help "reset" the other side.  And vice versa for artists.

 

I hope this helps.

[Superwoman]

@ChessieCat

 

Thanks, for the heads up and advice.   I will keep this in mind.  I am planning to start tapering again this weekend. 

[Superwoman]

On 2/7/2020 at 3:24 PM, brassmonkey said:

No two reductions will behave be exactly the same.  Some reductions will be very smooth while others will really kick up for a while.

 

On 2/7/2020 at 3:24 PM, brassmonkey said:

It's why we refer to tapers as being "nonlinear".  The best measure of improvement is your WDnormal.  This is a month over month rolling average of how you feel minus the highs and lows. If your overall general feeling of blah is better this quarter  than it was last quarter your WDnormal is improving, which is a positive sign. If its the same then things are holding steady which is also a good thing.  If it is worse then we need to pay attention to what your are doing and maybe make adjustments.

Mods, @Altostrata, @brassmonkey, @ChessieCat, others....I started recording my daily symptoms on the “Dr. Joseph Glenmullen’s withdrawal symptom checklist.”   I would like to get a baseline of my WD normal to use to measure against when I start tapering again this weekend.   I will have 2.5 months of data that I have recorded on the Glenmullen’s checklist. What if I calculate the average score of each symptom for this period of time?  Do you think this would give me good measure of my WD normal for the past 2.5 months?  

[Superwoman]

Just now, Superwoman said:

 

Mods, @Altostrata, @brassmonkey, @ChessieCat, others....I started recording my daily symptoms on the “Dr. Joseph Glenmullen’s withdrawal symptom checklist.”   I would like to get a baseline of my WD normal to use to measure against when I start tapering again this weekend.   I will have 2.5 months of data that I have recorded on the Glenmullen’s checklist. What if I calculate the average score of each symptom for this period of time?  Do you think this would give me good measure of my WD normal for the past 2.5 months?  

So for example, for the symptom of anxiety, I would add up all of the numbers and divide by the number of occurrences for the symptom, to get the average score for the last 2.5 months.   I could then use this as the baseline average level of anxiety.  Hope this makes sense.  

[brassmonkey]

That would be a good way to gage improvements. You might try putting all the information into a chart for a visual reference too. Possibly an "average of the averages" or a "grand total" of the averages would be helpful.

 

Once the averages have been calculated I would suggest using what is known as a "rolling average" the next time you calculate things. To do that you drop off the first number and add in the latest, so you are always using the same number of numbers, but have more current data.  This will help point up any changes in the "trend" of the numbers, making them easier to see. Something to keep in mind is that WDnormal is a measure of long term improvements so for the charts you may want to use an average for the week instead of daily numbers.

[Altostrata]

3 hours ago, Superwoman said:

Do you think this would give me good measure of my WD normal for the past 2.5 months?

 

You might be able to get an idea if withdrawal-related emotional symptoms are abating,  but a daily symptom diary would be far useful to track other types of withdrawal symptoms or adverse drug reactions.

 

Overall, do you feel better, worse, or the same now compared to 2 months ago? What is your current symptom pattern?

[Superwoman]

21 hours ago, Altostrata said:

 

You might be able to get an idea if withdrawal-related emotional symptoms are abating,  but a daily symptom diary would be far useful to track other types of withdrawal symptoms or adverse drug reactions.

 

Overall, do you feel better, worse, or the same now compared to 2 months ago? What is your current symptom pattern?

I have been doing a symptom diary, that I post on here.  I think that I feel a little bit better compared to 2 months ago.  Especially since I switched to a different job I think that the symptoms are not fluctuating as much.  I improved a lot compared to this time last year before I lowered the dose from 112mg to 75.  A lot of symptoms diminished after I lowered the dose so I hope the same thing will happen again when I taper.
 

  As far as the symptom pattern, there is sometimes an uptick in symptoms after taking Effexor and also after taking Armour Thyroid.   
 

Last time when I tapered I found it challenging to gauge what was normal month to month fluctuations of a taper and a fluctuating baseline and what was WD.   It was hard for me to get a big picture of how things had changed from reading over my daily symptom diary.   I am looking for something for when I taper that I can look at a glance and compare to, to see if WD symptoms are improving, worsening or staying the same.  That way I will know if I need to adjust the taper. 

[Altostrata]

How do you feel this uptick in symptoms after you take Armour Thyroid and Effexor in the morning?

 

Since you take them at the same time, you cannot tell which is causing the symptoms. It's probably Effexor, thyoid hormone has a half-life of weeks.

 

I see you also take your drugs irregularly. It is important to take them at the same times each day. Taking Effexor a couple of hours late might be causing your brain zaps.

[Superwoman]

On 11/5/2020 at 3:03 PM, brassmonkey said:

That would be a good way to gage improvements. You might try putting all the information into a chart for a visual reference too. Possibly an "average of the averages" or a "grand total" of the averages would be helpful.

 

Once the averages have been calculated I would suggest using what is known as a "rolling average" the next time you calculate things. To do that you drop off the first number and add in the latest, so you are always using the same number of numbers, but have more current data.  This will help point up any changes in the "trend" of the numbers, making them easier to see. Something to keep in mind is that WDnormal is a measure of long term improvements so for the charts you may want to use an average for the week instead of daily numbers.

It is in a chart as a checklist.   A graph would be really helpful l, but probably too time consuming and complicated.  I don’t understand the rolling average concept.  To get an average of average or grand total average I am thinking of adding up all the daily scores of a symptom for the last 2.5 months and dividing by the total number of days.  Or I could add up the averages the scores for the weeks and divide by the total number of weeks.  

[brassmonkey]

Rolling average is pretty simple. Lets say that you want to keep a rolling average to a 10 day period. You would start with the first ten days numbers.

 

1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10 = 55   55/10 = 5.5 average.

 

The next day you would do:

 

2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11 = 56   65/10 = 5.6 average

 

on the third day it would go like

 

3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12 = 57   57/10 = 5.7 average

 

So each time you calculate a new average you drop off the first number and add on the new number. In this way the average "rolls" over time.

 

I would add up the numbers and find an average for the week, then use each weeks number as part of the rolling average. Week 1 + week 2 + week 3....week 10 to start. Then Week 2 + week 3 + week 4.....week 11 and so on. Then, time permitting make a graph of the rolling average.

[Superwoman]

Monday October 2, 2020

 

9am: wake up

9:30am: breakfast, 1 C. Coffee, shiver sensation in body 2, lasting few seconds 
10am: counselor, 1 C. Coffee

11am: Armour Thyroid 120mg.
11:30pm-12:30pm: yoga, anxiety 1, restless 1, difficulty relaxing

12:30pm: Effexor xr 75mg
1pm: on way to work, posting symptom diary, anxiety 2, trouble focusing 3

2pm-4pm: working, anxiety 2, shortness of breath 1
4pm-10:30pm: working, anxiety 1, shortness of breath 1

12am: 4 droppers C. poppy, vitamin d lotion 5,000IU, EO’s
12:45am: bed, brain zaps 2 here and there, insomnia 2, shortness of breath 1

 

Notes Monday: shiver sensation 2, anxiety 2, trouble focusing 3, shortness of breath 1, insomnia 2

[Superwoman]

Tuesday October 3, 2020
 

11am: wake up, breakfast, 1 cup coffee, ok

11:45am: Armour Thyroid 120mg, brain zaps 3 lasting 15 min., amplified HB 1, lasting 15 minutes 
12pm: feeling better

12:30pm: Effexor xr 75mg
1:30pm: on way to work, anxiety 1

2pm-6pm: working, anxiety 1, air hunger 1
4 peppermint beads

4pm-6pm: working, anxiety 3, air hunger and excessive yawning 3, electric shock sensations thumb 1, headaches 2, lasting 1 hr
6pm-8pm: air hunger 3, anxiety 4, Jaw tension 1

8pm-10:30pm: headache and brain zaps 1,
anxiety 1, jaw tension 1

11pm: headaches and brain zaps 3, 11:30am: anxiety 3

 

Tuesday Notes: brain zaps 3, amplified HB 1, anxiety 4, excessive yawning 3, electric shock sensations body 1, headaches 3, jaw tension 1

[Superwoman]

Wednesday October 4, 2020

 

10am: wake up, 1 C. Coffee, breakfast 

10:30am: ok
11:30am: Armour Thyroid 120mg

Walk dog, ok
12:30pm: Effexor xr 75mg, lunch, headache and brain zaps 2, malaise, fatigue 4, electric shock sensations  fingers 4

2pm-6pm: working, anxiety 1, air hunger 1
Headaches 1, occasional, restless 2

6:30pm-8:30pm: anxiety 4,  air hunger 3, restless 1, tight muscles neck 5,  headaches and brain zaps 3

8:30pm-10:30pm: air hunger 3, Headaches 3, anxiety 2

10:30pm-12:30am: watching election, anxiety 5, headaches, brain zaps 3

12:30am: 4 droppers C. poppy, EO’s, buzzers 
1am: bed, trouble sleeping 1, urinary frequency 7

 

Notes Wednesday: Headaches and brain zaps 3, malaise/fatigue 4, electric shock sensations body 4, anxiety 5, air hunger 3, restless 2, tight muscles 5, insomnia 1, urinary frequency 7

[Superwoman]

Thursday October 5, 2020

 

11am: wake up well rested, heartburn 2, 1 C. Coffee 

11:30am: watching election, anxiety 3
12pm: lunch, Armour Thyroid 120mg

12:30am: Effexor xr 75mg
1pm: on way to work, anxiety 5, irritability 5

2pm-6pm: anxiety 4, restlessness 2, air hunger 2
6pm: dinner

6:30pm-8:30pm: anxiety 5, restless 2, air hunger 2
8:30pm-10:30pm: anxiety 2, air hunger 2
1am: bed, urinary frequency 3, insomnia 1

 

Notes Thursday: heartburn 2, anxiety 5, irritability 5, restless 2, air hunger 2, urinary frequency 3, insomnia 1

 

[Superwoman]

Friday October 6, 2020

8:30am: wake up, tired, breakfast, 1 C. Coffee 
9am-11am: anxiety 3

10am-11am: acupuncture 
11am: headache 4 and anxiety 4 lasting 30 minutes 

11:30am: headache 0, anxiety 2
12pm: lunch, Effexor xr 75 mg

12:30-2pm: headache 3, fatigue 7
2:30pm-3:30pm: nap

4pm: depression 2, headache 5 lasting 15 minutes 

4:30pm: hiking with dog, feeling much better, mood good
6pm: dinner with family, ok

7pm: anxiety 2
8pm-10pm: watching movie, brain zaps 3, amplified HB 1

11pm-12am: anxiety 2, brain zaps 3, jaw tension 2, 
1am: bed, trouble falling asleep 2

 

Notes Friday: anxiety 4, headache 5, fatigue 7, depression 2, brain zaps 3, amplified HB 1, jaw tension 2, insomnia 2

[Superwoman]

On 11/6/2020 at 3:33 PM, Altostrata said:

 

How do you feel this uptick in symptoms after you take Armour Thyroid and Effexor in the morning?

 

Sometimes after taking the medication, I have anxiety, electric shock-like sensations in my body, shiver sensations in my body, depression or flat mood, heartburn, loose stools, urinary frequency, brain zaps or headaches and irritability.  From time to time I wake up with brain zaps or headaches and this goes away after taking the Effexor.  So, there could be times when I have interdose WD as well.   It is more common that I get an uptick in symptoms after taking the medication though.  

[Altostrata]

Is there another time of day when you can take Armour Thyroid? When you take 2 drugs close together, we can't tell which is causing what. I have a feeling we've discussed this before.

 

Do you also take supplements in the morning? What is the reason you cannot take Effexor at the same time each day? It's important you do this.

 

Are you drinking caffeine? We've discussed that before, too, correct?

[Superwoman]

@Altostrata how many hours apart do I need to take the Armour Thyroid and Effexor?

[Superwoman]

On 11/6/2020 at 5:41 PM, brassmonkey said:

Rolling average is pretty simple. Lets say that you want to keep a rolling average to a 10 day period. You would start with the first ten days numbers.

 

1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10 = 55   55/10 = 5.5 average.

 

The next day you would do:

 

2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11 = 56   65/10 = 5.6 average

 

on the third day it would go like

 

3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12 = 57   57/10 = 5.7 average

 

So each time you calculate a new average you drop off the first number and add on the new number. In this way the average "rolls" over time.

 

I would add up the numbers and find an average for the week, then use each weeks number as part of the rolling average. Week 1 + week 2 + week 3....week 10 to start. Then Week 2 + week 3 + week 4.....week 11 and so on. Then, time permitting make a graph of the rolling average.

Thanks Brassmonkey!   I think that I will just do a regular average for the baseline.   This is a little complicated for me right now.  I might do this for the data starting Saturday, post taper.  I started tapering Saturday.  

[Altostrata]

Superwoman, we're 11 pages into this. Please figure out a drug schedule where you're not taking Armour Thyroid with Effexor and stick to it. They should be at least several hours apart, and neither drug should be on top of another drug.

 

When you change the timing of a drug, move it by an hour each day, do not make sudden changes.

 

Do your part. Please review your topic from the beginning so I don't have to repeat instructions over and over. If necessary, make notes to remind yourself of basic principles.

[Superwoman]

@Altostrata, I can take the Effexor at noon.  To separate the Armour Thyroid out, then I would not be able to take it until my first break at work at 4pm.  Is this to late in the day to take it?  I think that it is stimulating so I don’t know if it will effect my sleep.  
 

The only other supplements that I take is California Poppy 4 droppers for sleep at bedtime.  I also use essential oils for sleep and immune support at bedtime and a topical vitamin D lotion 5,000 IU at bedtime.   

[Altostrata]

3 minutes ago, Superwoman said:

 Is this to late in the day to take it?

 

Here's your homework: You're going to have to look up instructions for taking Armour Thyroid and decide the best time of day to take it that's several hours apart from your other drugs.