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Erell: struggling with paroxetine

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Erell

Hi dear !

Well, Today is day 7 of this bad wave, I pray for a window :)

 

It is hard not To treat myself poorly : I wouldn't be in this state if I hadn't mess up. But I agree with you  : regrets can't help To heal :)

I know that this journey Will make me a better person. 

 

Big hugs To you ❤

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Erell

So, I tried to analyse my situation :

 

--》 I'm wondering about an updose : for example I saw that you @Sassenach you updosed after one week because you didn't see any changes. I also read that altostrata and Brassmonkey just adviced an updose To emdb.

I'm not saying that I wanna change my dose, every change scares me.

But I try to understand why sometimes an updose is a good idea and sometimes not.

 

---》 I try To understand why I have the feeling that I'm getting worse:

- I read that people usually have ups and downs during their wave days. It feels weird that in my case I have the same intensity of symptoms all day.

- there are symptoms that are new since October (did'nt expérience them in September) : suicidal thoughts, anhedonia, tinnitus.

- windows  : the one on 2 and 3 October was easier than the one on 12 and 13 October. And then last window on 17 October lasted only afternoon and evening.

- if not worse, it feels stuck : when I read my diaries I Feel like I'm in the same state that 1st October,  or 9 October, for example.

 

 

To cope I try To tell me that I Feel stuck because any changes is very small and slow. And try To tell myself that I must trust my body.

 

Maybe I shouldnt analyse so much. I think my lonelyness lead me To this. 

 

I wish you all a delightful day. Your are my heroes, I don't know how you all cope so Well! ❤

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sunnysideup69
1 minute ago, Erell said:

Hi dear !

Well, Today is day 7 of this bad wave, I pray for a window :)

 

It is hard not To treat myself poorly : I wouldn't be in this state if I hadn't mess up. But I agree with you  : regrets can't help To heal :)

I know that this journey Will make me a better person. 

 

Big hugs To you ❤

Now you see THIS is why I strongly disagree when you say you are negative. This is a really positive approach to adversity x

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Sassenach

Hi Erell

 

I am sorry you are having such a tough time.

I will ask for a second opinion on a potential updose.

 

Sass

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Erell

I'm sorry too..Today was really hard : anxiety, internal and external tremors, no appetite at all, weird feelings in my head...It felt like I was back To one month ago. I pray for a window.

 

I thank you for the second opinion. But I don't know what answer I hope..I'm not even sure I want To updose, scared of making things worse. 

 

I know that Rhiannon thinks everything is normal and not getting worse, and that I Will stabilise so I try To convince myself that I Will.

 

Hope at least you are doing well 😙

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Rhiannon

I know it's tough, but remember, it's still very early days. At this point in time I would expect to see exactly the kind of thing you are seeing. 

 

I am going to be honest with you here: You did a lot of up and down changing of doses in August and September. That was very recently. It's really very normal to be unstable for a while after doses have been switched around, especially if you were already in withdrawal to begin with, which you were. If your signature is correct, it has been only a month since the last time you bumped your dose up a little and then back down a little. 

 

- 22nd August updosing To 10mg (was at 8.4mg).

- 4th Sept. : updosing To 12mg 

- 5th Sept : back to 10mg

- 6th Sept : start hypericum 900mg and rhodiola, magnésium and Bvitamins, éleutherocoque. 

- 21st Sept : add saffron, l-tryptophane, probiotics, lemon balm, ...trying To get better.

- 23 Sept: updosing To 15 mg of Deroxat and stopped all suppléments.

- 25th sept : back to 10mg and holding

 

I don't feel optimistic that you would get a good result from doing that again. In your case my intuition is saying strongly that what you need is stability, that you need to stay on a single dose of med, same time every day, and focus on non-drug approaches to support your nervous system while it settles down and heals.

 

The moderators may feel differently, and they do have more experience with the ins and outs of reinstatements than I do, so if there is a consensus among the moderator team that you should try an updose, then you should. 

 

I am just saying what I think. I have been saying from the beginning that the early months are rough, until you stabilize. You are still very much in those early months. Your last bump up and back down in dose was only a month ago, so that is when your "stabilizing" clock starts.  You are already clearly better and more stable than you were then, which is a very good sign. It is generally a matter of three to six months before people begin to settle down and really get windows regularly. You are actually doing very well for this early in the process.

 

If It were up to me, I would say, stay at the same dose, keep all your meds as stable and consistent in dosing and timing as you can, and really focus on the nondrug things that you have found to be helpful. Push yourself a little, to get outside every day, to get a bit of gentle exercise, to talk to friends and family either in person or on the phone at least a couple of times a day. Be gentle to your body. Let the bad thoughts wash through like waves from a stormy sea. They are not the truth, they are just symptoms of withdrawal.

 

See what the moderators say. Hugs to you

 

--Rhiannon

 

 

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Sassenach

Listen to the voice of wisdom above Erell🤗

Oh, I don't mean me, but Rhi of course.

 

Sass

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Erell

Rhiannon, 

 

I have strong respect for your wisdom and intuition. 

You're right, I've made ups and downs,  you can't imagine how I regret! I didn't know people could be in a such miserable state. I underestimated the difficulty of AD WD as I tappered without symptoms during one year and half.

It's a tough daily fight for not going crazy. I often wonder  : what do other people in acute WD do ? How do they occupy their day ? 

 

I Will do exactly what is told me here. 

 

It is just hard To imagine living with this intensity of symptoms during 3 To 6 months like you said. I realise that I don't have any other choice, I réalise that I'm in early days. The idea of next months scares me. So much.

 

I know I'm annoying. I can only thank you strongly for sharing regularly your wisdom with me. And blessing altostrata for creating this forum. 

 

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Erell

@Sassenach : you are a lighthouse ❤

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Superwoman

Hi Erell,

 

Sorry you are not feeling well. It is good to have a community of people here who understand what we are going through.  No one understands unless they go through it. 
 

Take Care,

 

Superwoman

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Altostrata

Erell, a day or so ago, you had symptoms of flu, how are you feeling now?

 

Are you taking paroxetine at the same time each day? In what form do you take it, a capsule or liquid?

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Giulietta

Coucou Erell,

 

I wish I was at your flat to bring flowers 🌹, fix something nice to eat, 🥐  and give you a big hug. 🤗 But I am not in Brittany so consider this a virtual hug. :) I wish I was there to help you through this.

 

It is hard to stay the course with your dosage and I know you feel terrible and want to improve your situation - even a bit. When I felt really bad in early times -  I would increase and decrease doses  frequently because  I was trying to improve how I felt. My nervous system didn't have a chance to adjust to all these changes. I didn't feel any better with any of my changes.  I probably made things worse. 🤕

 

It takes a lot of courage to stay the course particularly when going through WD. You are very strong woman to be coping with this.

 

6 hours ago, Erell said:

what do other people in acute WD do ? How do they occupy their day ? 

 

I tried to live as much of a daily routine as I could. This helped with stability. I wasn't always able to do this but it was a goal.  Things that helped me were being outside, being in the sun, and when I felt OK  being around other people. Focusing my mind on something helped. I worked about 8 hours a week from home - broken up over days when I felt OK. I looked forward to it because I had to focus on it. It helped quiet my mind. 

 

If knitting or crochet interests you - you can learn on youtube. It is almost winter so you can knit a scarf. :)

 

Things that did not serve me well: spending too much time on the computer. I spent too much time reading about WD and health things. This leads to over analyzing things - which fuels anxiety.

 

7 hours ago, Erell said:

I know I'm annoying.

 

Not in the least.  :rolleyes:  We all feel terrible for you. All of us on this forum are going through this - in one phase or another - so even if our friends outside of SA don't understand - we do. You are not alone.

 

Well - time to say goodbye - so with a big hug

 

Giuilietta💗

 

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Erell
6 hours ago, Altostrata said:

Erell, a day or so ago, you had symptoms of flu, how are you feeling now?

 

Are you taking paroxetine at the same time each day? In what form do you take it, a capsule or liquid?

 

Hello Altostrata, 

- symptoms of flu only lasted one morning. It felt like a real cold, but apparently just a new WD symptom.

- I take 10mg Paroxetine at 8am everyday. It's a liquid. 

 

Have a great day.(Thank you!)

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Erell

Diary 24 October/ day 30 on 10mg Paroxetine 

 

6.30am: woke up anxious (6). Arms are painfull.

8am 10mg Paroxetine + 1 fish oil capsule. Anxiety : 6 / restlessness:6 / despair (6).

It Will be the same all morning.

11am quick suicidal thoughts. 

2pm despair  : 7. Feel lonely and stuck. No desire.

3pm : anxiety: 6 / despair: 6 / restlessness: 6.

5pm : same, with other symptoms  : internal and external tremors, felt really tense, clenching teeth,  dizziness.

6.30pm: same + headache + weird feelings ( like if someone was clamping a nerve From the below of my neck To the top of my head. No painfull, just really weird.)

8pm : bedtime. Headache and tremors. 

anxiety: 6 / despair: 6 / restlessness:6.

10pm : anxiety (5) / despair (6) / restlessness (6).

10.40pm: hungry, eat some.

11pm lights off. I fall asleep around midnight.

 

woke up anxious(6) at 6.30am.

 

---》 I know i should push, but yesterday I didn't find the courage. So I spent my day in my flat, mostly in my bed. I did'nt eat in the day, didn't find the courage. 

--》 still in a bad wave my friends, trying To cope.

--》 Today, it's been one month on 10mg Paroxetine. Let's hope for a better next month !

 

One question  : in France, we Will change Time this Sunday. This Sunday at 3am, we Will move back To 2am. Can I still take my Paroxetine at 8am even if it Will be an hour later?

I can't remember how I did during my benzo WD..

 

Have a great day.

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sunnysideup69
Quote

 

Need to note this; at the weekend in the UK, the clocks go back an hour. I've never worried about this before, but I know Venlafaxine can be a bit difficult if taken late.

 

Wondering whether I should still continue to take my Ven at 7am (which in fact will be 8am old time)? It's an hour's difference. However, as I'm taking the extended release version, am hoping this time glitch won't cause too many problems.

Also, if I adjusted according to movement of clock, it would mean taking it at 6am, which is too flippin early.

Ugh. Hope this won't affect me.

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sunnysideup69

@Erell, so sorry, accidentally posted my post for my thread on your thread......brain fog! Oh dear. But it seems you and I have the same question about timing, what with the upcoming clock adjustment....

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sunnysideup69

Hang in there, @Erell,

This too shall pass. And hopefully, when it does, your baseline may have improved a bit. Sending lots of love and hugs from a very grey London xxxxx

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Sassenach

Hi Erell & @Sunnysideup

 

We recommend moving doses by no more than one hour so you should be ok.

If you are at all worried move by 30minutes, continue for three days and if no effects move by further 30 minutes.

 

Sass

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Giulietta

Coucou Erell

 

Thinking of you and hope your day is brighter than yesterday's. Sending positive thoughts and hugs to you.

 

Giuilietta,

💗

 

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Erell

Hi @Sassenach : Thank you for your reply on this time change !

 

Guilietta : 😙

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sunnysideup69

Thank you @Sassenach!

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Sassenach

Hi Erell

 

How has today progressed?

 

Sass

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Erell

Hi dear Sass!

 

8 minutes ago, Sassenach said:

How has today progressed?

 

You know it was a bit easier because I did'nt post thousands messages here ? 😄😉

 

Today my symptoms oscillated between 5 and 6, and I managed To eat (having appetite is always a relief because i've lost a lot of weight and loose my jeans 😮). 

 

Not a window but a wave a bit easier To surf Today 🏄‍♀️

 

I've noticed that when my symptoms don't go over 5 rate,  I manage To not spend my entire day on SA and don't bother you with my fears. Everytime I get To despair at 6 or more, I get totally overwhelmed and loose my mind. 

This is a misérable symptom : I Feel sadness but it is a 'rationnal' sadness, one that I can manage when I Feel sad about my situation. But the symptom of despair that I expérience feels différent, totally irrationnal, totally overwhelming.

 

Oups I get talkative here !

 

Hope it Will get better and i'll be able To post less messages here and just support others!

 

I think of you Sass, and send you lot of support in your holding journey 🤗

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Sassenach

Bonsoir Erell

 

55 minutes ago, Erell said:

i've lost a lot of weight and loose my jeans 😮). 

I don't understand you ladies. You complain you put on weight, you complain when you weight👿

I love your sense of humour is back, good sign.

57 minutes ago, Erell said:

I get totally overwhelmed and loose my mind.

You are still totaly sane.

 

58 minutes ago, Erell said:

This is a misérable symptom : I Feel sadness but it is a 'rationnal' sadness, one that I can manage when I Feel sad about my situation. But the symptom of despair that I expérience feels différent, totally irrationnal, totally overwhelming.

But it will pass like all the others and one day be a distant memory.

You are so much calmer than a couple of weeks ago.

Big Hugs from a frosty Scotland🤗

 

Sass

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Erell

Thank you for telling me I'm much calmer : I already said this but, as I live alone in this acute WD, it is so valuable To have external opinion! 

Thank you also To say that I'm totally sane !

 

Weird how at 5 rate I can work on acceptance! It really feels like an other person write here sometimes 😮

 

 

Can't thank you enough for holding my hand in this process, so I Will just take your big hugs and give you big hugs from a sweet but windy Brittany 🤗

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mustafa

Hi erell, 

Long time since I wrote to you the last time . How are you!?, I hope you are very well. 

I think you will reach a state that you will still suffer but you will be able to practise your everyday activities and I think it will be soon. 

Write to you and iam depersonalized and weired but still survive.

Good night to you .

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Altostrata

Erell, since you've been taking 10mg paroxetine for a month, you might go up to 11mg and see what that does.

 

Or, you could add 1mg fluoxetine or citalopram and prepare for a switch to another SSRI to complete your taper. Paroxetine can be very, very difficult to go off.

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Erell

Hi @Altostrata

 

I thank you for your time. 

Your suggestion is a bit worrying me : so you don't think I can stabilize on 10mg?

I'm really afraid of making things worse by making a new change. 

Updosing To 11mg : is it something that you would do or you are just showing me what are my options ?

Does it means that I can't stabilize on 10mg?

 

I've read the topic about prozac bridge and saw that it is much likely To work if someone is stabilised, which I'm not. 

 

Anyway,thank you for your reply. I have To think about it, which is hard in these times of acute WD. 

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Erell

Diary 25 October / day 31 on 10mg Paroxetine 

 

6.30am: woke up anxious (6)

7.30am: anxiety (6) / restlessness (5) / despair (6)

8am : 10mg Paroxetine + 1 fish oil capsule 

9am : anxiety (6) / restlessness (6) / despair (6)

11am back To my flat after going To the sea. À bit méditation. 

anxiety (5) / despair (5) / restlessness (5). 

11.30am: anxiety (6) / despair (6) / restlessness (6)

12.30am felt like if the sky lighten with a fresh air in my arms and legs. So Nice.

anxiety: 5 / restlessness: 5 / despair: 5

It Will last until 2.30pm. 

I made use of this state To go outside : went To the sea, To walk.

3.30pm despair: 6 / anxiety: 5 / restlessness: 6

5pm : despair: 6 / restlessness: 6 / anxiety:6

7.45pm : exhausted,  go To bed.

Anxiety  : 5 / restlessness: 5 / despair: 4

10pm : same.

11pm: anxiety: 4 / restlessness: 4 / despair: 4

 

 

This night: I fall asleep around midnight, woke up anxious at 7am ,then slight anxious sleep until 8am. 

 

 

--》 So yesterday was a wave a bit easier To surf  🏄‍♀️ + I didn't cry and had more appetite. 

 

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sunnysideup69

Good morning from London, it's so cloudy and dull here today, but the leaves look beautiful on the trees outside my window. How are you doing this morning?

 

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Erell

Hi @sunnysideup69

 

Thank you for passing by here !

 

I have To admit I'm not doing Well this morning : I just read Altostrata's post and I'm terrified  : I don't know if that  means I can't stabilize on 10mg, if staying on 10mg means I Will always live in this state. And I'm so afraid of what an updose could do.

Rhiannon told me To stay stable and now I don't know anymore. 

 

Sorry for all these anxiety.

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sunnysideup69
7 minutes ago, Erell said:

Hi @sunnysideup69

 

Thank you for passing by here !

 

I have To admit I'm not doing Well this morning : I just read Altostrata's post and I'm terrified  : I don't know if that  means I can't stabilize on 10mg, if staying on 10mg means I Will always live in this state. And I'm so afraid of what an updose could do.

Rhiannon told me To stay stable and now I don't know anymore. 

 

Sorry for all these anxiety.

Don't need to apologise, I just read the post. 

Obviously I'm not Alto and I'm sure she'll come back to you. 

I read the post in this way. No, it DOESN'T mean you won't stabilise on 10mg. However, adding an extra 1mg might give you some better symptom relief. Sooner. I don't think it means you won't stabilise at 10mg at all, I think that's your anxious brain catastrophising the meaning (I know that feeling very well.) You won't always live in this state. 

 

Sending gentle hugs xxx

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Erell

Yes obviously my mind is catastrophizing. Since Rhiannon's post I was hard on working on believing the fact that all my brain needed was stability.

Now I'm anxious because I don't know what is my best option, updose at 11mg or keep on holding at 10mg.

 

Nobody can predict what would an updose do...So, if it is sure that I can stabilize on 10mg, I Guess that is maybe my best option...

Altostrata, if you agree To answer, do you think my best option is To hold ?

 

Honestly I pray for a window, it would help me To believe that holding is my best choice.

 

All I want is Being able To thank my old self in a few months...

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Giulietta

Coucou Erell,

 

I read all the posts and I understand your anxiety about this. We are all anxious about our medication. I think Alto and others understand too - it's a difficult path everyone is going through. It's worse for us when we are in a bad wave.

 

4 hours ago, Erell said:

Now I'm anxious because I don't know what is my best option, updose at 11mg or keep on holding at 10mg.

 

Nobody can predict what would an updose do...So, if it is sure that I can stabilize on 10mg, I Guess that is maybe my best option...

 

I agree wtih @sunnysideup69comments. Your response to Alto is well considered and you did your research. I think perhaps  Alto will respond to  you. 

 

What if'ing and catastropizing - negative thinking - make things harder on us. You are getting better at not doinig these things (we are all learning) - so that is huge! :)

 

It took me weeks to decide about beads  and would it increase my dose and make WD worse? Or would it be too low and make WD worse. With everyone's help an dpatience I decided on a dose. It was really hard to arrive at. But a plan has been made. 

 

Hugs,

Giuilietta💓

 

 

 

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Passionlifetime
On 10/24/2019 at 11:38 PM, Superwoman said:

No one understands unless they go through it. 

You are absolutely correct.

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Rhiannon

Erell, I am about to jump into my car and drive 90 minutes to the city where I will go to a French conversation meetup, je pense a toi! 🙂 

My younger daughter fell ill and will not be able to come this weekend, but I will get to play with the petit-fille tonight, at least. I will be back here Sunday night or Monday, have a nice weekend cherie!

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