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Erell

Erell: struggling with paroxetine

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Sassenach
8 minutes ago, Erell said:

First thing this morning : oh no, I'm still in hell...plus the anxiety of the 10mg story!

Your english is good and by the time you leave here will be excellent.

 

Another thing for you to investigate, morning cortisol spikes.

If you want me to explain I will do so, but you are learning so much in one day I am certain you can investigate yourself.

11 minutes ago, Erell said:

What do you mean

I mean you are learning and taking part which is good.

 

Sass

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Erell

Oh Rhiannon! Such a wonderful message you wrote here! I'm so grateful i found this forum! Your support make me stronger!

 

1. Haha, I noticed I put a lot accents To English words...Will have to improve that too ;)

 

2. Contrarily To this morning, I Feel calm about the 10mg. I know I put my brain into à lot with all these suppléments!!! I regret, but now I wanna focus on patient healing.

 

Have à great evening !

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Erell
8 minutes ago, Sassenach said:

 

Another thing for you to investigate, morning cortisol spikes.

If you want me to explain I will do so, but you are learning so much in one day I am certain you can investigate yourself

 

Yes I read the topic : tonight I Will close curtains To be in obscurity!

I have To read it again To be sure I understand every parts!

 

Have à great evening Sass!!!

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Sassenach

And you, sleep tight.

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brassmonkey

Hi Erell-- Welcome to SA.  I'm sorry to hear that you're having such trouble at the minute.  The others have given some very good information and advise so I won't add much to it.

 

Anxiety and anger are two of the more prominent side effects of being on paxil. They will come and go as they please and be very bothersome.  The trick is to learn to see them coming, for me there usually was a several day build up that I was able to identify.  When I felt it starting to happen I understood that there was going to be problems for a few weeks and I needed to watch myself.  The anxiety is chemical based, caused by the drug, and generally comes in waves that last several weeks 24/7 and then resolve over several days.  There isn't much that can be done, AAF is one way of handling it, also lots  of acceptance.  Mainly it just needs to be put up with and lived around until it settles down.

 

Anger is one that really needs to be paid attention to because a person can get themselves into a lot of trouble if they are not careful. I've written several things about anger management, but I can't lay my hands on them right now.  I think they are posted in intro thread "Brassmonkey talking about myself" Gridley gave a link above.  Again the key is to watch for the build up and triggers and then try to disarm the situation before it can get out of hand.  It may seem rude, but turning and walking away can be a good strategy.  Both the anxiety and anger take a bit or practice to "master", but it is time well spent.

 

Speaking of time well spent, my wife and I spent a lovely week or so in Paris at the New Year and are planning on returning this coming spring.  There were several things we missed out on doing because of a sudden illness on my part that cut that leg of the trip short.  This will make our third time there.

 

Brassmonkey

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Altostrata
On 9/23/2019 at 2:08 PM, Erell said:

I Will try To summarise what happened :

- from February 2018 To August 2019, I made decreases of Paroxetine. Started with 20mg, with 3%. In August I was at 8.41 mg.

 

- August 22nd : updosing To 10mg after three days of insomnia and permanent anxiety. 

 

- getting better and better until Septembre 2nd. This day, I couldnt stay at work : too much anxiety and pannic attacks. I did'nt go To work since.

 

- september 4th : updosing To 12mg 

 

- september 5th : back To 10mg 

 

- september 6th : i start hypericum (300mgx 3 / day) and rhodiola (morning and noon)

 

- until September 9th, I have the feeling I'm getting better. But this day I had a complicated night (a lot of anxiety), so I keep only one rhodiola in the morning.

 

- Since, I'm getting worse.

 

- September 11 : i ggive up on rhodiola

 

- September 16th : tried To getback To work. But it is too hard: permanent strong anxiety.

 

- September 21st : new 'cocktail' : hypericum/saffron/lemon balm/ éleutherocoque/ omega3/l-tryptophane/lithium citrate./pronostics

 

- Today : I ddid'nt take the cocktail, I'm toobad,  more than I ever had!!!Since 2018 i also had magnésium and Bvitamins. I stop them too. 

 

Updosing at 15mg of Paroxetine : i wanna try To stabilize with it, and without suppléments.

 

I'm already on a FrenchForum : with it and all the precious solidarity between membres, I managed To get rid of benzodiazepines. 

But with the AD I need other point le views : in France we use à lot of suppléments To help us during withdrawal. But I have the unpleasant feeling that my brain can't accept anymore all these supp.

 

Now I am really concerned : I'm in hell and never been in a so violent pain. Did I injured my brain forever??? Will I ever find some peace???

I'm so terrified : whatwhat if I had definitely damaged my central nervous system with all these suppléments? Was my anxiety in August only à face that I should have tolerated?

 

Oh I'm sorryfor this long message! I'm so terrified 24/7 , I can't think properly.

 

Have a good day.

 

Hello, Erell. Are you feeling better taking 15mg Paxil?

 

Paxil is a very difficult drug to go off. You did not make a mistake reducing by 3% every 15 days. 

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Guilietta

Bonjour Erell,

 

Welcome to SA! I am glad you found your way here and are already finding things on the site and getting  advice and support.  Good job getting off the benzos. :)

 

Vous parlez anglais tres bon! (You speak English very well).  

 

Getting off these drugs with minimum disruption to the nervous system takes a lot  of time and as Rhiannon said, a lot of patience. Healing is a slow process - and we all want to get off this drugs as quickly as we can - but know that tapering and healing takes  time.  

 

I am also in WD since January 2018. I know I'll get better and you will too!

 

From my personal experience - to help with insomnia and anxiety - I got myself a blackout eyemask and a weighted blanket.

 

AAF is really good!

 

4 hours ago, Sassenach said:

AAF: Acknowledge, Accept, Float.  It's what you have to do when nothing else works, and can be a very powerful tool in coping with anxiety.  The neuroemotional anxiety many of us feel during WD is directly caused by the drugs and their chemical reactions in the brain.  Making it so there is nothing we can do about them.  They won't respond to other drugs, relaxation techniques and the like.  They do, however, react very well to being ignored.  That's the concept behind AAF.  Acknowledge, get to know the feeling involved, explore them.  Accept, These feelings are a part of you and they aren't going anywhere fast. Float, let the feeling float off as you get on with your life as best as you can.  It's a well documented fact that the more you feed in to anxiety the worse it gets.  What starts as generalized neuroemotinal anxiety can be easily blown into a full fledged panic attack just by thinking about it.

 

I often liken it to an unwanted house guest.  At first you talk to them, have conversations, communicate with them.  After a while you figure out that they aren't leaving and there is nothing you can do to get rid of them.  So you go on about your day, working around them until they get bored and leave.

It can take some practice, but AAF really does work.  I hope you give it a try.

 

Guilietta

 

 

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Erell

Hi everyone!

 

@brassmonkey : thank you for sharing your experience with me! 

Anger is low and not really there  : it is more a feeling of injustice and sometimes jealousy...Feel jealous : all this people who live without knowing this Hell! 

Plus, I work with disabled people : doctors change there meds all time...I Feel so sad and anxious now I understand what they are going through without Being able To tell !!!

I've read your topic, so inspiring! Thank you for Being there!

 

@Altostrata : I don't take anymore 15mg, but 10mg since 25th Sept. Seems To be better. Not good, but a tiny less anxiety.

Yes Paxil is a strong poison! I won't tapper before months,  not sure how I Will: i read here things about microtappering. But now, my only concern is To get To a tolerable level, holding 10mg. I don't know if you've read, but I made terrible mistakes this month : changing doses, adding à lot of suppléments... now I have To wait for some relief. 

 

@Guilietta : thank you!!! Tappering benzos has not been an easy journey! Far away!! I'm proud I made it, never touching this again!

Every journey is specific :To me, AD/WD is far more difficult! Symptoms a so intense and violent!

Actually, I don't Feel impatient about getting off this drug : I kknow it is a hard thing To do, and I have already accept that it Will take years in my case. I Feel ok with it

I'm impatient now because I'm afraid of not Being able To stabilize after my month of mistakes! I know symptoms won't disappear, I just want them To be tolérable. 

so I have To work on acceptance ;)

 

 

Thank you all : you may not réalise how grateful I am for finding this forum, and for all your support!!! 😍

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Erell

Wednesday 25th September :

 

6 am : woke up anxious

8 am : 10mg Paroxetine 

11 am : 30 minutes nap, sleeping!

11.30 am eat a half banana. Nausea

Still High anxiety and despair since 6am.

+ wanna cry but my body can't. 

12.50 To 2 pm : a little less anxiety, more tolérable.

2pm To 3pm : violent anxiety came back and also deep despair.

3pm To 5pm anxiety decreases à bit.  I'm able to hope and be confident.

5pm To 6pm violent anxiety came back and also deep despair.

6pm To 8.30 pm : decreases a bit. I'm able To hope for better days and be confident. 

All evening since 8pm headhaches : new symptom but I spent so much time on my Phone and smoked à lot so I'm not surprised! 

However, I have really intense nausea!!

22.30 : fall asleep 

 

4 am : woke up anxious, stayed in bed and read a book.

 

6.40 am To 7.40 am : fall asleep. Dream of sexual traumatic abuse. 

 

7.40 am a new day begin...

 

 

I don't remember hours, but I eat 3 bananas. + I tried To eat goat cheese on the evening,  find it really good but I think it is what made me so nauseus.

 

--> i spent the morning in my bed, not able To imagine going out of my room.

--> However, I Feel like it was better than Tuesday : less akathisia and anxiety à little lower.Actually,  I don't know if I have less anxiety or If I get used To it..

---> I know it sounds silly but I almost enjoyed Being so nauseus in the evening ! By concentrating on nausea, I was less concentrated on anxiety...

--> I also practiced your exercice @Sassenach : was nice to tell m'y anxiety : "ok you're here, wasn't expecting you but now you're here...If you don't matter, I'm going To continue what I was doing!"

 

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Sassenach

The exercise is a quote from

@brassmonkey who is much older and wiser than me.

It does work and I'm glad you are finding it helps.

How are you feeling this morning.

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Erell

Hi Sass!

This morning I Feel really tired, and anxiety is High. 

It seems that mornings are more difficult than evenings for me, so I have To be patient. 

When anxiety is High like now, I Feel despair. So scared of not being able To go through this hell. But I also know that my only option is To wait.

Fingers crossed for better days!

I would like To eat some toi, but as I took Paroxetine, I prefer not To eat To be sure I won't vomit my med. 

 

Its like this Will never end! But I know now, thanks To this forum and thanks To you, that I have To wait.

 

Thank you for asking, Feel less lonely.

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Erell

Right now it really feels like i'll never going through this, so much despair! I can Feel my brain panic and not being able To get better.

Serious panic attacks. Not even able To go out of my bed. Terrified.

I'm supposed To get back to work in 2 weeks. This is impossible. 

 

I'm not suicidal, only terrified. Truly terrified. And in this state, it is impossible for me To try acceptance.

 

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Guilietta

Hello Erell,

 

You poor thing. I'm sorry you are having a rough morning with anxiety and panic. I know it's miserable.

 

What positive comments you made about recognizing the need to be patient and accept this and that you will get better with time. In my experience the different types of WD symptoms come and go at different times and on some days - they will happen multiple times on the same day and for different lengths of time. The distance between these days will grow over time.  With the symptoms of anxiety and panic - and as they happen repeatedly - I know they will go away. I work on accepting that they will pass and distracting myself with somethign (like a piece of music).

 

Work in 2 weeks may indeed be doable and a good way to distract yourself from these WD symptoms.

 

Guilietta

 

 

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Erell

Hi Guilietta

Thank you for Being there! I Feel like a child needing adults'words To Feel better...But I'm 28!

 

Its really hard for me To distract  : actually it is not panic but true terror, since I woke up

 I also have the feeling that nobody here has experimented this level of anxiety...like If I was unique and a spécial hopeless case. I know how it sounds Silly and that I should stop comparing 😉 actually I do know that we all experiment horrific symptoms ! Its just that I loose my mind when terror is too High!

 

I would love To be able To go back To work because I truly love it! But for now I can't, so terrified of everything.

 

I admire you all so much! It means a lot To me be accepted here! 😍 Sorry for Being such a child...😚

 

@brassmonkey : sorry I did'nt react  To your sentence about Paris! Glad you liked it and hope you'll have a good trip next spring!!!

I'm more a country girl ;)

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Gridley
1 hour ago, Erell said:

this level of anxiety.

 

Erell,

 

I'm sorry you're experiencing this anxiety and terror.  Here are some links that might be helpful to you.  The last link, legs on wall, has been a big help to me with anxiety.  Dr. Claire Weeke's techniques are also very good.

 


 

 

 

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Erell

Hello Gridley

Thank you for these links! I'm going To try legs up the wall!

 

What I find most complex is that I truly can Feel this is chemical terror, and complicated To manage.

 

However I have To try all these techniques!

 

Thank you again for support, so important in these hard times!

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Sassenach

Hi Erell

 

How are you feeling now?

 

" I'm 28 and i have taken these pills since i was 15 because of panic attacks when I was in highschool. "

1 hour ago, Erell said:

What I find most complex is that I truly can Feel this is chemical terror, and complicated To manage.

Does the terror you are experiencing now feel different to the panic attacks?

 

You cannot manage these or any other W/D symptom, they are a product of our sensitised CNS, hence "Accept Acknowledge Float"

 

Will be back soon.

 

Sass

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Erell

Hi Sass 

 

Yes this terror is very different : I believe I'm able now To manage panic attacks, especially since my benzo WD. I practiced a lot of exercices, and I've been able To be ok with panic attacks since 2 years now. When they come, I'm usually able To say hello and continue m'y life! Not always easy, far away, but it was tolérable.

 

But what I am experiencing now feels différent. First because it doesn't really decreases and Feel like a permanent state, or a  permanent crises. Secondly, it is more intense than everything I've been through these past few years! I think I might be coping the biggest struggle of my life! I hope so strongly that I did'nt mess up with m'y brain forever!

I know it's only been 2 days of holding at 10mg without any suppléments, so I work on my patience. Patience patience patience...was Bouddha on WD ?! 😃

 

My warmest thoughts To you!

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Sassenach

Is it decreasing now later in the day?

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Sassenach

  Below is Alto's explanation  and effect of morning cortisol spikes.

 

"In excess, cortisol causes the awful anxiety, depression, and insomnia many of us suffer in withdrawal syndrome.

 

Your natural level of cortisol, a daytime hormone, starts rising about 4:30 a.m. Withdrawal syndrome exaggerates the level of cortisol in the early morning. The normal cortisol peak at dawn is felt as a jolt of anxiety or panic.

 

After the peak around dawn, the cortisol level declines somewhat to the daytime level. At a normal level, cortisol makes you feel energetic for daytime activities.

 

The rise in morning cortisol is triggered by light on your eyelids. Sunlight controls all our circadian rhythms, see https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Circadian_rhythm

 

Blocking out light to the bedroom might help blunt the effect of the morning cortisol jump. If your bedroom gets a lot of morning sun (as mine does, it's south-facing), you might want to put in blackout shades, blackout curtains, and wear a sleep mask. Try a sleep mask first, it's least expensive."

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Erell

Hi Sass

 

I still Feel High anxiety, but mornings are worse. It's only been 2 days with 10mg so it's hard To see a pattern, but it seems that mornings are horrific and then it decreases a bit through the day. Evenings are better for sure!

 

Still not able To stay outside my flat, but I continue To try several time every day.

 

I think my despair is in part related To the fact that I stay in my flat without seeing anyone. Usually I am very social person who loves To interact with everybody and meet new people ! But I almost can Feel peace about this  : I know I'm going through an horrific expérience so it is ok To be lonely for now. 

 

What really make me impatient is unbearable anxiety, it gives me the impression of going crazy and that it Will never improve, even if thanks To this forum I know now it Will eventually.

 

 

I also Feel Guilty about all my messages : I don't know if all newbies are like me, writing a lot all day! 😟

Right now I don't really have other support.

 

All mods work here is tremendous!!! You deserve so much love and kindness!!! 😍

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Rhiannon

Erell, the morning panic and gradually getting better during the day is very typical for withdrawal. It follows the daily cycle of cortisol levels. Try to really enjoy those evenings, it will make the days easier to get through.

 

I understand, that intense anxiety is very overwhelming. Many, many people experience that in withdrawal. It feels like you're going to die, but you aren't, it isn't going to harm you. Try all the suggestions in the links Gridley gave you.

 

The fact that you are feeling better in the evening is a good sign. Hang in there. The first few months are the worst, you should begin to feel better soon.

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Sassenach

Hi Erell

15 minutes ago, Erell said:

I still Feel High anxiety, but mornings are worse. It's only been 2 days with 10mg so it's hard To see a pattern, but it seems that mornings are horrific and then it decreases a bit through the day. Evenings are better for sure!

This is a normal course of events, see quote above from Alto.

 

17 minutes ago, Erell said:

Still not able To stay outside my flat, but I continue To try several time every day.

It is good that you want to try but do not push yourself too hard, it could increase your anxiety.

As you said

19 minutes ago, Erell said:

It's only been 2 days with 10mg

 

19 minutes ago, Erell said:

I also Feel Guilty about all my messages : I don't know if all newbies are like me, writing a lot all day! 😟

Right now I don't really have other support.

It is why we are here.

There is a natural progression.

Everyone is scared when they arrive, I remember the moment all too well.

Over the next few days they realise there is hope, accept that it will be slow, make friends on here because they feel isolated, and slowly start to heal.

Do you drink coffee?

Is it de-caffeinated?

 

41 minutes ago, Erell said:

All mods work here is tremendous!!! You deserve so much love and kindness!

Stop some of us are easily embarassed:blush:

 

Please do not forget your symptom diary

 

Sass

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Sassenach

Forgot.

Gridley posted First Aid for panic above.

Suggest you use it when you wake in the morning to help calm you.

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Erell

Hi Sass and Rhi !

 

1. @Rhiannon : " the first few months are the worst" : are you telling me I'll have To live with this level of terror for months???

I know you can't guarantee anything but this is an horrific thought...I think I can handle terror if it decreases a bit, but not this High level for months...Feel so despair.

 

2. I don't drink coffee anymore since 2012 I think. Not even tea. Actually I think I  have a very healthy diet since years now. My benzos WD taught me a lot! 

I can't imagine how I would be these days with coffee  😃😲

 

3. Yes I think I understand cortisol Spikes. What a mess!

 

4, thank you for Being gentle with all m'y fears and messages! And for understanting them!

 

5. Ok I Will try To not give too much love here 😉

 

Thank you both,  it helps me calm down when I read your messages!

 

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Guilietta

Hello Erell,

 

Not to worry about asking a lot of questions - and reaching out to others to make friends. The more the merrier as they say.  Most of us (all?) of us feel isolated - and there are a number of 'threads' or 'discussions' about it on here.  In addition to sharing what works for us to cope, etc. - we support each other  through the forum.   Discussing WD from ADs is a hard thing - people don't understand it and how profoundly it affects us.

 

So do be in touch!

 

I live in the northeast corner of the United States - and it's becoming what we call 'leaf peeping' season as the foliage turns bright shades of red, gold and orange. I wonder what kind of foliage season you have where you are in France.

 

Guilietta

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Erell

Hi @Guilietta

I live in Brittany, 5 minutes of car from the sea 😊 even if I'm not able To go on walk and see her for now, I find the sea very calming! So blessed To live there!

We don't see these red gold and Orange shades yet, but surely will in October ;)

Températures slowly decrease, mornings are fresh...and where I live, because of the sea, the weather changes every hour : great sun To cloud To sun....Love it cause I love feeling strong wind! 🤗

 

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Sassenach
6 minutes ago, Erell said:

To live with this level of terror for months

The level of symptoms we experience are determined by the state of our CNS.

Your's is in a real state of flux because of the increases and decreases of meds.

Those fluctuations will level out over the next week or so and things will calm down.

I think Rhi was making the point that the first couple of months are the worst before stability begins, not that there is no improvement during that time.

Sass

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Rhiannon
2 minutes ago, Sassenach said:

The level of symptoms we experience are determined by the state of our CNS.

Your's is in a real state of flux because of the increases and decreases of meds.

Those fluctuations will level out over the next week or so and things will calm down.

I think Rhi was making the point that the first couple of months are the worst before stability begins, not that there is no improvement during that time.

Sass

Yes, what Sass says is what I meant. I'm sorry if that was unclear. You should begin to feel better soon. 

 

The first few months are when people usually feel most confused and worried. That is normal, but it's so difficult. Later on, you will have more confidence in your body's ability to heal from all of this. Just take it one day at a time or one hour at a time and don't let those fearful thoughts and confusion make you think you are broken or doing something wrong. You will get through this. You are not broken.

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Erell

Waouh thank you Sass!!! I know you're not doctors and can't guarantee anything, but your confidence gives me hope!!

Even made me smile 😉

 

Have a Nice evening!

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Rhiannon
9 minutes ago, Erell said:

Hi @Guilietta

I live in Brittany, 5 minutes of car from the sea 😊 even if I'm not able To go on walk and see her for now, I find the sea very calming! So blessed To live there!

We don't see these red gold and Orange shades yet, but surely will in October ;)

Températures slowly decrease, mornings are fresh...and where I live, because of the sea, the weather changes every hour : great sun To cloud To sun....Love it cause I love feeling strong wind! 🤗

 

Oh, that sounds so beautiful! La Bretagne is such a beautiful place to live, I agree you are blessed to live there, and I am sure your heart must take comfort.

 

The sea will be there waiting for you and soon you will be able to go see her. 

 

I will be going to the coast on Saturday, with my daughters and my granddaughter. I am so excited, I haven't seen the ocean in almost a year, and I am also very happy to be spending time with my precious girls.

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Erell

@Rhiannon : I'm sorry for my misunderstanding. Yes, I think now I understand next few months Will still be challenging and full of waves. Not concerned about tappering for now, when I Will Feel some improvments, I plan To hold as long as it Will take To stabilize, even if its a year or more. 

 

But for now, as you said : one day at a time.

Which is much more easier To do on evenings 😉😃

 

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Erell
7 minutes ago, Rhiannon said:

Oh, that sounds so beautiful! La Bretagne is such a beautiful place to live, I agree you are blessed to live there, and I am sure your heart must take comfort.

 

The sea will be there waiting for you and soon you will be able to go see her. 

 

I will be going to the coast on Saturday, with my daughters and my granddaughter. I am so excited, I haven't seen the ocean in almost a year, and I am also very happy to be spending time with my precious girls.

 

Let's do this : next time I Will be able To go To see her, I Will take photos for you! 😉

 

I totally understand your happiness about next Saturday : ocean is such an amazing place! Enjoy it! May I ask if it Will be West or east cost?

I realise my knowledge of Usa geography is pretty bad, now I'm on this forum I start Being curious 😄

 

Oups Sass Will not enjoy it but I can't avoid it...lot of love for you all!!! 😊

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Guilietta

Hello Erell,

 

 

20 minutes ago, Sassenach said:

I think Rhi was making the point that the first couple of months are the worst before stability begins, not that there is no improvement during that time.

 

I would say the first couple of months were the worst for me. I would add that I would have a break of several good days and feel so happy - and then be hit with a bunch of bad days - or days that were partly 'bad.' It is part of recovery. :)

 

Aren't you fortunate to live in Brittany! The seaside is beatiful and relaxing - and there is nothing like a beautiful sunset or sunrise on the horizon. The closest best seacoast to me are 90 minutes away by car. 😭 When I lived in Southern California - I walked to the beach every day. The coast is so lovely there.

 

You enjoy the rest of the day!

 

Guilietta

 

 

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carefulprayerful

Erell, 

 

j’ai 33 ans et j’ai trouvé ce site-web en avril 2018.  Il est une vraie bénédiction et j’en suis très reconnaissante aussi.  Ton anglais est formidable mais je tente d’employer mon français un peu :) j’ai passé du temps en Bretagne en été il y a 11 ans!!  C’était après mon année Erasmus. 

 

Il est bien que tu sois patiente.  Le cerveau guérit.  Quelle chance d’habiter près de la mer!  J’habite dans le New Jersey qui est sur le côté d’est à côté de New York mais je ne vais pas assez souvent à l’océan 

 

CarefulP

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Sassenach

Hi Erell

How are you feeling this morning.

If you are having anxiety attacks do not forget to use the panic attack link we gave you

SAS S

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