Erell: struggling with paroxetine

[Sassenach]

Your situation is not weird.

It is Windows and waves.

As soon as we have a good day we think we will just carry on improving even though we know no we won't.

It is natural human behaviour

 

The drug will not reach full state for at least another two days and we will review then.

How are you feeling now.

I am out and about all day today so it will be this evening before I am available to comment much further.

Keep believing.

 

[Erell]

Thank you Sass!

 

I am a bit reassured by the fact that m'y situation is not weird. Yes you're right, because it was improving, I thought it would continue To improve.

 

Now : anxiety at 6 and despair at 7.

 

I don't wanna stop believing. I'm just so scared about everything.

 

So glad To read you can be out all day, enjoy it!

[Erell]

Terror is back again. And I don't know how To get through this. 

I'm gonna have To quit my job. Go back To my parents home. So afraid they could make me go To an hospital, I don't wanna have added drugs.

 

Oh I'm so sorry everybody for these multiple messages! Don't know how To go through the day. I don't have suicidal ideas, but so scared of this terror state! I know you all can't do anything for me. I just need To tell somebody how hard it is and this forum is the only place.

[Sassenach]

Stop panicking Erell.

Remember the terror cannot hurt you unless you let it, it is not real just your brain playing tricks.

Tomorrow you will feel different about everything and wonder what is was all about.

Distraction, distraction, distraction

 

Sass

[Erell]

I know my brain is trying To stabilize. I don't know how To help him.

 

Its been a month now, stucked into my flat,  hoping badly To get better. I'm exhausted. Not physically but psychologically. And I'm so afraid about future : quit my job, my flat, loosing friends, see fear and sadness in my parents eyes. I know I'm disappointing everybody around me since a month.

 

I really do know that you can't do anything about it, and that only time can help me. And in the mean time, my days are so long and full of anxiety. I also do know that everybody is struggling here. I admire all the courage I can read here. So many strong people! I don't know if I can be strong like this. I don't even know if I want To tapper ever again. Just hoping I Will Feel functionnal soon. 

 

I try not panicking. Find distractions. But I can't tell I'm succeeding. 

 

 

I'm so sorry Sass, you must have To manage your Wd too. I hope you're doing ok!

[Sassenach]

Hi Erell.

3 hours ago, Erell said:

I know I'm disappointing everybody around me since a month.

You have to let this go.

The only person that matters in W/D is yourself, you do not have the reserves to deal with anything else.

Eventually they will see the real you again.

I had to attend a regular hospital checkup today, it is a two hour drive away.

I awoke this morning feeling awful so today was hard, but I get more good days than bad now.

If someone asks me how I feel, better than yesterday, not as good as tomorrow.

It is not always true because of windows and wave, it keeps me positive.

If you do not feel better tomorrow it may be worth trying a small dose of the magnesium.

We can discuss in the morning.

 

Sass

[Erell]

Hi Sass!

 

You must Feel exhausted with your day, take care!

 

About magnésium citrate : I bought a bag of powder. The advice on it say : take one coffee spoon/day  (2.5g) in water. Don't know what a small dose could be, unfortunately i don't have scale. 

I won't bother you with this tonight, let me know tomorrow if you have any advice.

 

Wish you a sweet evening.

[Sassenach]

Now is fine.

I am a little better this evening.

How are you feeling now?

[Erell]

To be honest, it has been an horrible day : anxiety and despair at rate 8 or 9, all day. Cried a lot. Lot of restlessness and feeling of urge. Tremors. I tried several tips, but everything terrified me (legs up on wall, sweet music, ventral breathing...). Also terrifying thoughts : my situation is weird, I won't be able To live like this for several weeks,...

 

Now, it has decreased a bit but still struggling : anxiety at 7 and despair at 6. Tremors.

I'm scared about going To bed tonight because of my terrible night. I know it does no good, so I try To stay positive.

 

Well, in fact, it was and still is an awful day. I put a lot of hope in tomorrow. Can't imagine live with this state of terror for several next weeks.

[Sassenach]

Take your phone to bed and play this.

http://www.getselfhelp.co.uk/music/FirstAidPanicF.mp3

[Gridley]

21 minutes ago, Erell said:

take one coffee spoon/day  (2.5g)

That's a very high dose, 2500mg.  I would start much lower.  Magnesium in high doses can have a laxative effect.

[Erell]

Thanks Sass, I'm going To try it!

 

Unknowing is one of the most scary thing : unkknowing if this terror Will last several weeks.

[Erell]

@Gridley : thanks for the information. 

I would start lower too, not easy without a scale. I'm going To look online To see if I buy one.

[Sassenach]

Thanks @Gridley

 

Is it possible to dissolve in water and use a syringe to take small dose?

 

Sass

[Erell]

Oh yes, I think it could work! I have syringes. For what I read on the forum,  may be better To try magnésium in thé morning, so I will try tomorrow.

 

Thank both of you!

 

And, I abuse, but if anyone could reassure me before the night, telling me that I won't live months with this state of terror ?  😳

 

Thanks for your support!

[Sassenach]

3 minutes ago, Erell said:

And, I abuse, but if anyone could reassure me before the night, telling me that I won't live months with this state of terror

There are no guarantees but this site's advice is based on years of anecdotal evidence, which says it is very unlikey to last for ever.

Chin up, keep fighting.

 

Sass

[Gridley]

12 minutes ago, Sassenach said:

 

Is it possible to dissolve in water and use a syringe to take small dose?

You could do the syringe if that's convenient.   What's recommended is to dissolve a mall dose of powder in a glass of water and sip throughout the day.  You could limit it to the morning if you like.  Just start with a small dose and increase from there.

[Erell]

Thank you Sass 

[Erell]

@Gridley : thank you too!!

[Sassenach]

Thanks due to Gridley not me.

I have was not sure of the answer

oops

[Erell]

Yes but it was a thank you for your presence I know I ask you a lot, even telling me that everything is gonna be better soon while you can't guarantee anything

 

Just To be sure :

If I put 2500mg of magnesium in 100ml of water,  taking 1ml will give me 25mg?

(I read alto's advice about starting with 25mg).

 

If tonight is too awful, i'll try it.

 

[Rhiannon]

Hi Erell, I am back from my visit with family and trip to the coast. I thought of you there. 

 

I know life is not great for you right now but I think you are doing very well and I am encouraged to hear how it is going for you.

 

The despair is part of what we call "neuro-emotion". When it comes, it can be very difficult to remember that you have ever felt good in the past. It's challenging but as you can see those emotions pass. It is best not to listen to what they tell you, if possible.

 

Anyway, hugs to you, have another good day tomorrow!

[Erell]

Hi Rhi!

I've been thinking of you this week end!! Hope it was a sweet trip!!!

 

It feels Nice To read you're encouraged despite this bad day of terror! 

 

Hugs!

[Sassenach]

25 minutes ago, Gridley said:

What's recommended is to dissolve a mall dose of powder in a glass of water and sip throughout the day.

I think this is the best idea.

Quarter of a spoon in a glass.

You do not have to be as accurate with the dose as the recommendations on here for antidepressant doses.

If you sip throughout the day you will not get too high a dose and if you feel any bad effects just stop.

 

Sass

[Erell]

Yes I agree. Will try this tomorrow if no improvments. 

Thank you all!

[Rhiannon]

8 minutes ago, Erell said:

Hi Rhi!

I've been thinking of you this week end!! Hope it was a sweet trip!!!

 

It feels Nice To read you're encouraged despite this bad day of terror! 

 

Hugs!

 I know it is impossible for you to see the large, hopeful picture that I see. I have seen so many people go through withdrawal and all the various paths of reinstatement, changing meds, et cetera. So many stories. I have seen the patterns that emerge from all of those stories. It is because of having watched people so many times, that I see much in your situation to be encouraged by. 

 

So, I know right now you are feeling miserable in many ways. That is part of the pattern and is very normal. It is terrible to live through, but it is normal.

 

There is much about your response to reinstatement that is hopeful. You have been showing good signs right from the start (getting some tiny windows right away, having some better evenings even when the days were bad). You have a positive attitude and good social support. You are young and healthy. You seem to be willing to understand that you need to be patient and respect this process, rather than to keep trying to jump forward and keep getting more destabilized by making multiple changes. (That is to say you learn quickly!)

 

What I believe you can expect is, unfortunately, to feel pretty bad a lot of the time for a few more months, but to have a good moment or two almost every day, and to have days that are better mixed in with the bad ones. And unfortunately probably some days that are worse mixed in as well. But the days that are better will gradually come to outnumber the days that are worse. And gradually there will be less and less flip-flopping and more and more steady state. And that steady state, that baseline, will be gradually better.

 

Eventually you will be in a fairly steady state almost all the time. That is when it is time to begin to think about the next steps of tapering. Not before. This will take time.  Nobody can say for sure how long. My guess, based on your story so far, is that it will take somewhere between three and nine months. No promises! Just a guess.

 

So there you go. It's not a bright happy jolly story, but it's actually quite hopeful. I think there is a very very VERY good chance that, as long as you are patient, take care of yourself and don't do anything crazy, you can navigate this process successfully, and eventually taper safely all the way off all psychiatric medications, and go on to have a rich and satisfying life.

 

 

[Giulietta]

@Sassenach  This is terrific:

"If you are going through Hell, keep going. NCIS series 15, David MaCallum"

 

I'm glad your day went OK and you felt better in the evening.

 

Dear Erell,

You can and will get through his misery. I went through this as well - and it was terrifying - I didn't know when I would feel better or if I would (like you said). One hour I would have jitters and tremors and the next hour I would be in despair and sobbing. I didn't know if I would make it through this  -  but I was determined that I would succeed. I knew how horrible the drug was - that I had to get off - and with all the side effects while on it- it was bad for me! One thing that I told myself when I was in despair is that eventually I would need to get off duloxetine anyway. 

 

I hadn't found SA so I didn't understand what the heck was happening to me and have the emotional support.  We are all pullig for you and KNOW you will improve. It's a lot of work for our brains to adjust to not having the drug so until it adjusts to 'normal' again - we do have terror, panic, despair, unpleasant emotional states.

 

I have recently been having more good days than bad. I am thankful. It has taken me 9 months to get here. After stabilizing on this - I have to do what you did masterfully - get off a benzo. You are awesome to have done that. If you can do that you can do this!

 

Hugs,

Giuilietta

 

 

 

[Giulietta]

4 minutes ago, Rhiannon said:

What I believe you can expect is, unfortunately, to feel pretty bad a lot of the time for a few more months, but to have a good moment or two almost every day, and to have days that are better mixed in with the bad ones. And unfortunately probably some days that are worse mixed in as well. But the days that are better will gradually come to outnumber the days that are worse. And gradually there will be less and less flip-flopping and more and more steady state. And that steady state, that baseline, will be gradually better.

 

Eventually you will be in a fairly steady state almost all the time. That is when it is time to begin to think about the next steps of tapering. Not before. This will take time.  Nobody can say for sure how long.

 

The expectations that Rhi put are so true - and my experience as well. Things seem bleak now AND you will get better. 

 

Have a very pleasant night,  😴

 

Giuilietta 

[Rhiannon]

5 minutes ago, Rhiannon said:

 

What I believe you can expect is, unfortunately, to feel pretty bad a lot of the time for a few more months, but to have a good moment or two almost every day, and to have days that are better mixed in with the bad ones.

 

 

I see on reviewing your thread that you had the terrors again today and you are afraid they will not go away. I just want to clarify that I am not saying you will be in a state of terror for a few more months! Those are the bad days. They will come and go, I cannot say you will never have them again, but they will become less frequent and less terrible. They may cycle with your monthly hormones also. I was already past menopause when I began my tapering process, but I have seen many women find that their WD symptoms cycle with their hormones, which makes perfect sense.

 

Anyway I just wanted to make sure you understand, I am speaking of feeling generally not well, not saying you will be in terror. Since you have already had a few good days so early in the process, that is a VERY positive sign. Please go back and read your own thread and see that you have already had some relief from the terrors. That relief will happen again. You will have better days. There will also be a lot of bad days early on, but gradually this is all going to improve.

 

And one day, maybe a couple of years from now, when you are out dancing and running around and enjoying life and having adventures, you will look back on this time, and the future Erell will say to the 2019 Erell, "thank you so much for just going through those days, for continuing to walk your path, it was terrible and I am so grateful because now I have my life back!"

[Erell]

Rhi,

 

Thank you for sharing your knowledges with me! It is so important To me To make sure I understand every parts of this process.

 

1. You talk about my response To reinstatement  : I'm not sure I understand this because I did not do a reinstatement. I updosed To 10mg on August 22nd, and added a lot of suppléments during September (big mistake).

But I did not stopped Paroxetine. That is why I'm concerned about my state, I did not coldturkeyed...

Can you explain me why you talk about reinstatement?

 

2. When you talk about feeling bad for a few months, I know I have To take some décisions. I won't be able To go back To my current job in this state, so I may have To quit it. This means i Will have To go back To live with my parents because I won't be able To pay my rent. So I have To take care of all this week (because I'm supposed To go back To work next monday). It's gonna be hard. 

 

3. I won't do anything crazy, I'm too scared of every psychdrugs now ! 

What scares me is the possible réaction of my parents : as I Will dépend on them, I hope they won't try To make me go in an hospital. 

 

4. To be honest, I don't care about tappering for now. All that matter To me is To Feel better, and live without terror.

 

 

I wanna thank you Rhi for your honesty,  even if it's hard To realize how much my life is going To change quickly. 

 

I apologize for this long message, just trying To make sure I understand everything. 

 

 

Have a great day Rhi! 

[Erell]

@Rhiannon and @Guilietta : you both talk like if I had reinstatement..but I did'nt..Or I misunderstand the meaning of this Word?..

[Rhiannon]

8 minutes ago, Erell said:

@Rhiannon and @Guilietta : you both talk like if I had reinstatement..but I did'nt..Or I misunderstand the meaning of this Word?..

 

I am probably not using the term correctly. I am referring to when you went from 8.4 back up to 10 mg in August, then 12 then 10 again. I thought you had stayed at 10 but I see you went to 15 for a day or two there. 

 

Best to stay at the same dose now. What your brain needs right now is stability and TIME. Once things are destabilized and bouncing around like they are right now, there is no magical dose or medication that will make it better. Any changes will just make it worse, honestly, and make it take longer to settle down. I believe you are learning this. It is the hardest thing, to be patient.

 

Also I think you know that when you do begin to taper again many months from now, you will need to go at a slower pace. Unfortunately you have the kind of history that usually means a very slow taper is required. It's okay, though, if you take it slow you will probably feel pretty good most of the time.

[Sassenach]

Stop overanalysing.

Stop using the phone, take it to bed to use in the morning if necessary.

Relax before bed.

 

Good night

 

Sas

[Erell]

@Rhiannon : yes, I don't wanna change anything with my dose and won't touch To my 10mg! I'm too scared and I know that there's no magic pill.

 

I know that if I ever tapper again i Will have To go sloooooooowly. But as I Said I'm not thinking about this for now 

 

What really scares me now is To quit m'y job and move from my flat To my parents house. 

 

 

I'm sorry To all of you,  never been so négative and now I Feel like i overwhelm everybody with my fears.

 

 

[Rhiannon]

Your fears are much more overwhelming to you than they are to us. Your brain chemistry is causing you to feel those fears and to think scary thoughts. Do what you need to do, but if you can avoid taking drastic action until you feel better, that might be best. Can you get your job to agree to a leave for a few months? Would your parents loan you money to be able to stay in your place for a few months? Things will be different.

 

[Boris]

Hi Erell

 

So sorry you're going through this. I went through it with paroxetine and I know that terror and it does eventually go, it really does. It does get easier to deal with and lessen.

 

I held at 5mg for over 2 years before I started tapering again.

 

I have other problems but that terror, agitation, horrendous anxiety and the rest have gone for the last 2 years. 

 

My fears spilled out all over and most people understood.

 

Hang in there and try stick to a dose.