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Erell: struggling with paroxetine

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Erell
20 hours ago, Altostrata said:

Why would diazepam work for a week, then stop working ?

I don't know, I guess my mind was looking for a reason to explain so intense symptoms after some days of improvments. 

I was afraid of a paradoxical reaction to it, after 3 years without benzo.

 

20 hours ago, Altostrata said:

Why are you taking fluoxetine and diazepam together? You know we prefer to see separation 

You're right and I know it. 

I took 1mg Diazepam on morning the first day because I had very intense selfharm impulses, and after I've been afraid to change it.

I will gradually move it to noon and see how it goes. 

 

20 hours ago, Altostrata said:

If your worsening symptoms seem to be regularly occurring in the afternoon, my guess is the fluoxetine you're taking at 8 a.m. is causing activation, and you're still taking too much fluoxetine

I've analysed my daily notes but it doesn't seem that my symptoms have a specific pattern. Or I don't manage to see it. Symptoms are intense all day with extreme spikes. 

For example : yesterday morning was the worst with high mental restlessness and intrusive thoughts/impulses while afternoon was a bit easier (high anxiety but no intrusive thoughts).

The day before, the worst was at noon and during the evening.

 

So I don't know if we can guess what is causing what.

I see your confusion between Paxil Wd symptoms or Fluoxetine activation  symptoms and I feel sorry for putting you through these guesses.

 

One thing is sure : extreme physical restlessness (need to pace/shake/move all day) has subsided greatly since I decreased Fluoxetine. Symptoms are now mostly mental. It's the intensity that is breathtaking.

 

Do you think submitting my daily notes for a few days could help ?

 

I know people must be tired with me and my Prozac bridge.

I really appreciate your efforts and I'm sorry to be such a mess.

 

Thank you for the links !

Edited by Erell

2006 : 20mg Paroxetine + Bromazepam(no specific dose) 

2008 : cold turkey of both

2010 : 20mg Deroxat + Bromazepam(no specific dose) 

2013: Switch from Bromazepam To Prazepam (long half-life)

2014-June2017 : Prazepam taper, 3% drops. 

2018 to August 2019 : weaning Paroxetine 20mg. 3% every 15 days.

- 22nd August updosed To 10mg (was at 8.4mg) because of a big wave. 

25th Sept 2019 To April 2020 : found SA, holding at 10mg Paroxetine. 

 

April 2020-August 2020 : Paxil to Prozac bridge. Details https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/21457-erell-struggling-with-paroxetine/?do=findComment&comment=499847

 

Current Supplements : magnesium citrate/ fish oil/ evening primrose oil 

Current medication : 7mg Fluoxetine + 1mg Diazepam + toothpick Paroxetine 

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Nyfa25

@Erell mais nooon tu n'es pas un gâchis, tu n'y es strictement pour rien, tu es comme nous tous ici une victime!!

 

Un énorme câlin et pleins de bonnes ondes pour la guérison ❤


June 25 - July 8, 2020 - 2 weeks on Brintellix, suffered an adverse reaction.

 

25 juin - 8 juillet 2020-2 semaines sur Brintellix, a subi un effet indésirable.

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Cigale

Thinking of you ma belle @Erell. You are not a mess but you ARE compassionate, kind, thoughtful, strong, resilient, positive, sensitive, funny, smart, and wise beyond your years. Sending healing hugs 🤗 


2008-2016 - Lexapro 10 mg, tapered to 2.5 mg over one year then CT
Feb 2, 2019 to July 24, 2019 - restart Lexapro 5 mg; July 25, 2019 increase Lexapro 10 mg
Nov 20, 2019 to Dec 11, 2019 - way too fast taper from Lexapro 10 mg to 7.5 mg to 5 mg to 0
Dec 12, 2019 to Feb 4, 2020 - drug free until horrible WD hit
Feb 5, 2020 to Feb 16, 2020 - started Paxil 10 mg, resulted in very bad reaction
Feb 18, 2020 - current - reinstate Lexapro 5 mg to stabilize before taper

 

daily meditation 10-40 minutes, yoga 30 minutes; biweekly CBT & ACT therapy

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Altostrata

Yes, I always need to see daily notes!


This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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Erell
57 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

Yes, I always need to see daily notes!

 

Here is last four days (hope it's not too much). Don't know if they will help, but they will certainly show how much I love cleaning these days 😅 :

 

Wednesday 9th Sept

 

6.30am: woke up with a feeling like restless legs in all body. Go in garden to take some fresh air and move my legs. Good mood. 

7am : breakfast, banana+rice cakes+ 1 fish oil capsule. Anxiety and restlessness. Some intrusive thoughts-impulses. 

8am : strong feeling of impending doom, some surges to escape.

Toothpick Paroxetine + 7mg Fluoxetine. 

Try to meditate in my room.

9am : 1mg Diazepam. 

Force myself to do some food shopping with mum. High anxiety. 

10.30 am : try to focus on a puzzle. 

Anxiety is better, but strong surges to escape/ intrusive thoughts-impulses/ impending doom, feeling like going crazy.

Start a lot of different activities without managing to engage.

Noon feel a bit better. Eat lunch with parents. Want to cry but force myself not to.

Then lie in bed, breath, distract on phone.

2pm go to take a walk. Try to practice mindfullness while walking, focus on the beauty of plants. High anxiety. 

3pm Intrusive thoughts-impulses suddenly disappear !

Anxiety is high, with strong depressed feelings : decide to clean the house to distract.

Then spend some time in the garden.

6pm : 1000mg evening primrose oil. 

Intrusive thoughts-impulses are back.

Force myself to watch tv with parents despite fearing my impulses.

After 10minutes, weird feeling : it's like if my brain can't process the tv sound and the images at the same time, I feel overwhelmed. Even by parents talking.

Feeling like going crazy.

Go to take a fresh shower to distract and calm down. 

7.30pm: feeling better, calmer. My mood is good. Eat diner with parents, feel pleasure while talking with them.

Evening  still calmer,  anxiety and intrusive thoughts stay mild. I manage to read.

Lights off at 11pm, fall asleep quickly. 

Lot of awakenings during the night with anxiety. 

 

 

Thursday 10th September :

 

7am : breakfast, banana + rice cakes + 1 fish oil capsule. Anxiety strong, mental restlessness with surges to escape. 

Go back to bed to meditate and breath.

8am Toothpick Paroxetine + 7mg Fluoxetine. 

Still in bed, feeling dread and afraid to go out of my room.

9am 1mg Diazepam. Feeling restless, high anxiety. Intrusive thoughts. 

Spent morning in bed with sudokus, relax music. Mental symptoms decrease around 10.30am-11am. Able to read a book.

noon able to eat with parents and fake it.

After lunch, my mood suddenly improve, I feel strong and hope despite symptoms! Read a book.

2pm : feeling strong,  I decide to force myself to drive my car despite anxiety and intrusive thoughts. Very hard but I manage to take a car ride in town!

Then go home, do some cleaning, gardening, short walk. Anxiety is high, but I'm still in a good mood. Intrusive thoughts oscillate.

6pm : 1000mg evening primrose oil. Still in a good mood. Anxiety and intrusive thoughts are mild ❤

7.30pm : eat diner with parents, feeling pleasure talking with them.

8.30pm sudden spike of sheer terror while washing dishes. Very hard evening, mental terror, feeling of going crazy.

11pm : terror subside and I feel exhausted. Fall asleep pretty quickly.

Light sleep with lot of awakenings. 

 

Friday 11th Sept :

 

5.30am : woke up. High anxiety. Painful neck. Breathing exercices and meditation. 

7.30am : breakfast (banana+rice cakes). 1 fish oil capsule

8am : Paroxetine toothpick + 7mg Fluoxetine. High anxiety, febrile. Walk a bit in the garden.

9am : 1mg Diazepam. Then force myself to go food shopping with my mum. Very hard because of intense anxiety, mental surges to escape. But glad because intrusive thoughts-impulses are low.

Then do some cleaning in house to try to distract.

Noon : Intrusive thoughts/impulses very high+ feeling of going crazy + high anxiety. I leave the table because I need to isolate and cry.

2pm : mental symptoms fade a bit and feel a huge fatigue. I stay in my bed with some sudoku. Body aches.

3pm : take a slow walk outside, 1hour. Try to practice mindfullness (fresh air, butterflies...). Doom feelings, anxiety.

Then do some gardening, Intrusive thoughts-impulses.

6pm 1000mg Evening primrose oil.

Feeling calmer, sadness. Try to focus on a book.

7pm : head in a vice, anxiety increases. Random spike of terror. 

8pm : terror decreases, high anxiety-dread. Eat diner. Discuss with parents.

Evening: go to bed around 9pm. High anxiety, febrile. Lot of intrusive thoughts-impulses. Feel the need to shake my arms.

Low relaxation music and sudokus.

Lights off at 10.30pm. Might have fall asleep around midnight, then light sleep with lot of dreams and awakenings.

 

Saturday 12 Sept:

 7am : strong nauseas. Eat a banana + 1 fish oil capsule, then lay down on bed and try to meditate. Anxiety, febrile.

8am : nauseas subside. Toothpick Paroxetine + 7mg Fluoxetine. Go back to bed. High anxiety + fatigue

9am : 1mg Diazepam. High anxiety. Legs feel heavy, made in wood.

In bed, watching funny cats videos to distract.

Lot of intrusive thoughts.

10am decide to massage my legs and feet while listening to relaxing music.

Suddenly, my feets don't seem to be mine and they scare me.

I panic and decide to go for a walk to change the Channel. 

But have lot of intrusive thoughts-impulses, very intense, scared everytime I see someone, scared to hurt myself.

I explode in tears. 

11.30am : feeling calmer after crying.

noon : still calmer, able to fake it with parents during lunch.

Then feel exhausted and lie in bed with my phone. Intrusive thoughts and anxiety are there but lower than in the morning.

Afternoon : go to grand father's house to clean it. High anxiety, some surges to escape, but no violent intrusive thoughts, they disappeared suddenly. 

6pm 1000mg evening primrose oil. 

drink a glass with family (water for me). Hard to stay on my chair : high anxiety, shaky, light sensitivity. Give up and go in my room.

8pm : eat diner with parents. Anxiety, body aches. But manage to discuss and even surprised myself with a good laugh! Intrusive thoughts stay low.

Evening: take a shower then go to bed. Head in a vice and strong anxiety, febrile, shaky. Restless and tired at the same time.

Lights off at 11pm, fall asleep around 1am. Then slept surprisingly good until 7am.

 

Thank you Altostrata, really.

 

(I apologize for not posting daily notes earlier, I was weirdly convinced people would be mad at me if I did, can't say why. My parents pointed out to me that they have noticed some paranoid thinking.)


2006 : 20mg Paroxetine + Bromazepam(no specific dose) 

2008 : cold turkey of both

2010 : 20mg Deroxat + Bromazepam(no specific dose) 

2013: Switch from Bromazepam To Prazepam (long half-life)

2014-June2017 : Prazepam taper, 3% drops. 

2018 to August 2019 : weaning Paroxetine 20mg. 3% every 15 days.

- 22nd August updosed To 10mg (was at 8.4mg) because of a big wave. 

25th Sept 2019 To April 2020 : found SA, holding at 10mg Paroxetine. 

 

April 2020-August 2020 : Paxil to Prozac bridge. Details https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/21457-erell-struggling-with-paroxetine/?do=findComment&comment=499847

 

Current Supplements : magnesium citrate/ fish oil/ evening primrose oil 

Current medication : 7mg Fluoxetine + 1mg Diazepam + toothpick Paroxetine 

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Altostrata

I still think that you're having problems with something you're taking in the morning. Please continue to move the diazepam later. If the sense of being overstimulated moves later and later, it's the diazepam. If it stays where it is, it's the fluoxetine.


This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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Erell
1 hour ago, Altostrata said:

Please continue to move the diazepam later. 

I will.

 

Sunday 13th September :

 

7am : woke up with anxiety.

Breakfast, banana + rice cakes + 1 fish oil

8am : Paroxetine toothpick + 7mg Fluoxetine. 

Feeling anxious, febrile, impending doom. Take a walk in the garden. 

10am : 1mg Diazepam. 

High anxiety, body is burning. Force myself to drive a bit and go the market. Manage to do some food shopping even  if my brain screams to fly.

noon : still in high anxiety, shaky. Manage to eat a bit. Some terror.

Then go to bed to try to relax, breath.

2pm five minutes easier, I yawn, feel more relaxed, big fatigue.

Then anxiety ramp up. Go in the garden, don't know what to do with myself. I "booze".

3pm decide to tidy the attic to distract my mind, while listening to inspirant podcasts. 

Very high anxiety. Some tears. 

6pm 1000mg evening primrose oil. 

Feeling frightened and sad. Dread with no reason. Want to cry to relieve tension but don't manage to. 

Try to distract by watching tv with parents. 

7.30pm eat diner, no apetite. Mood is better. High anxiety, hard to stay on my chair.

Evening: take a fresh shower. Go on SA to report daily notes. Then to bed with sudokus. Try to read a bit but hard to focus. 

Anxiety is very high. 

Lights off at 11pm, big fatigue. 

Then somnolency with sudden awakenings in terror. Finally fall asleep after a couple of hours and slept good until 7am.

 

 

---》 yesterday intrusive thoughts-impulses stayed surprisingly low, like a background noise.  Felt really grateful for this!

My main symptom was high anxiety-terror.

Edited by Erell

2006 : 20mg Paroxetine + Bromazepam(no specific dose) 

2008 : cold turkey of both

2010 : 20mg Deroxat + Bromazepam(no specific dose) 

2013: Switch from Bromazepam To Prazepam (long half-life)

2014-June2017 : Prazepam taper, 3% drops. 

2018 to August 2019 : weaning Paroxetine 20mg. 3% every 15 days.

- 22nd August updosed To 10mg (was at 8.4mg) because of a big wave. 

25th Sept 2019 To April 2020 : found SA, holding at 10mg Paroxetine. 

 

April 2020-August 2020 : Paxil to Prozac bridge. Details https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/21457-erell-struggling-with-paroxetine/?do=findComment&comment=499847

 

Current Supplements : magnesium citrate/ fish oil/ evening primrose oil 

Current medication : 7mg Fluoxetine + 1mg Diazepam + toothpick Paroxetine 

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Erell

@Cigale : had some tears reading you. You're going through a really hard time and yet you come here to share some strenght.

It really shows how strong and how compasionate you are.

I'm a lucky woman to have met you on my path ❤

Hope you can feel all our love and support, we are rooting for you.

 

@Nyfa25 : merci pour ton câlin 💞 N'oublie pas : aussi dur que soit les jours présents,  tu n'as pris ces médicaments que pour une courte période, tout ceci n'est que temporaire.

 

@sunnysideup69 : thank you for your sweet hugs ❤

I'm so happy to read your progress !

Don't freak out if you're feeling exhausted : when I went back to work last January, I couldn't do anything after 6pm except for lying in bed ! 😄

It is utterly normal  : you are facing a lot of stimulations after isolation.

It did slowly get better.

 

@Hanna72 : thank you, yours words always lift me up  🤗 You have a special talent to find the good words and support people. 

i thank you for your tip, and practice it. I find it can be helpful when dealing with anxiety.

I try to work on my guilt but has to admit I'm currently not very good at it for the moment ;)

 

@Longroadhome : thank you for your support ! ❤ While dealing with crazy thoughts, it is very helpful to benefit from an external view. I thank you deeply for taking the time you took to help me !

 

@Rosetta : my grandpa had an accordion and gave it to me. I wasn't in a good mood and thought "what's the point!". But then I remembered you mentioned to me playing an instrument to distract and occupy the mind 😉

Currently learning to discover accordion with youtube tutorials, small steps.

Thank you for mentionning this ❤

Of course,  will let you know when my career will take off and send you a cd 😄

 

@mustafa : thank you for sharing your experience, really. These weird feelings are quite new to me and now I know them it shows me how strong and resilient you are ! Well, I had no doubt in fact ❤

 

 

Everyone, wish you a nice day and some good smiles ❤


2006 : 20mg Paroxetine + Bromazepam(no specific dose) 

2008 : cold turkey of both

2010 : 20mg Deroxat + Bromazepam(no specific dose) 

2013: Switch from Bromazepam To Prazepam (long half-life)

2014-June2017 : Prazepam taper, 3% drops. 

2018 to August 2019 : weaning Paroxetine 20mg. 3% every 15 days.

- 22nd August updosed To 10mg (was at 8.4mg) because of a big wave. 

25th Sept 2019 To April 2020 : found SA, holding at 10mg Paroxetine. 

 

April 2020-August 2020 : Paxil to Prozac bridge. Details https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/21457-erell-struggling-with-paroxetine/?do=findComment&comment=499847

 

Current Supplements : magnesium citrate/ fish oil/ evening primrose oil 

Current medication : 7mg Fluoxetine + 1mg Diazepam + toothpick Paroxetine 

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Erell

Dailynotes

 

Monday 14th Sept :

 

7am : woke up feeling gloomy, sad.

7.30am : breakfast+ 1 fish oil capsule. 

High anxiety, febrile. 

8am Toothpick Paroxetine + 7mg Fluoxetine. 

Go back to bed with relaxing music, breathing. 

9am : go with my mum to the library. High anxiey. Some intrusive thoughts, but stay low

10.30am : back home. Still high anxiety but sudden very good mood ! 

11am still in a very good mood, strong enough to propose a menu for lunch, do some cooking. Anxiety seems to be lower.

Take 1mg Diazepam. 

noon : still in a good mood, anxiety stays mild ! Some intrusive thoughts but low, background noise.

1pm : anxiety ramps up again, feel restless.  Try to relax in my bed. 

Relaxation, sudoku.

Afternoon : weather was very hot outside, stayed mostly inside. Did some accordion, cleaning, tried to read a book.

High anxiety, but no extreme.

5pm : force myself to go in a supermarket but have a panic-terror attack inside and come back home.

6pm : 1000mg evening primrose oil. 

Force myself to call a friend to distract, manage to discuss with some pleasure. 

7.30pm: eat diner. No intrusive thoughts! Just anxiety.

Evening: try to relax in bed. Very high anxiety with a spike at 10pm, terror.

It faded around midnight, with a huge fatigue. Lights off. Fall asleep relatively quickly and slept well until 6am.

Then slight anxious sleep/ gloomy feelings.

 

@Altostrata 

 

---》 had an easier time between 10.30am and 1pm. Worse was around 22pm with terror, hot flashes.

Like the day before, intrusive thoughts-impulses stayed low.

---》 It seems that since one week I have hard evenings, worse than during the day (terror), while evenings were easier and calmer during the first week on Diazepam.

 

---》 Today, it will be my 18th day with 1mg Diazepam, So I'm probably already dependent on it (a dependency I know I stupidly created). 

This monday report seems to be in favor of a decrease (felt better before taking Diazepam), however this current morning is very restless and I haven't taken Diazepam yet.

 

I also don't know how to interprete the pattern of worse evenings with terror spikes : it doesn't seem to be related with the peak plasma of the two drugs.

 

 

I know you can't give an explanation for every symptom, but I'm grateful for having an external point of view with those dailynotes.

 

I have different theories, but the action they imply could make things worse if I pick the wrong option.

 

I have to make a decision but feel quite paralysed because I don't trust anymore my guts since my intuition lead me to make things worse.

Edited by Erell

2006 : 20mg Paroxetine + Bromazepam(no specific dose) 

2008 : cold turkey of both

2010 : 20mg Deroxat + Bromazepam(no specific dose) 

2013: Switch from Bromazepam To Prazepam (long half-life)

2014-June2017 : Prazepam taper, 3% drops. 

2018 to August 2019 : weaning Paroxetine 20mg. 3% every 15 days.

- 22nd August updosed To 10mg (was at 8.4mg) because of a big wave. 

25th Sept 2019 To April 2020 : found SA, holding at 10mg Paroxetine. 

 

April 2020-August 2020 : Paxil to Prozac bridge. Details https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/21457-erell-struggling-with-paroxetine/?do=findComment&comment=499847

 

Current Supplements : magnesium citrate/ fish oil/ evening primrose oil 

Current medication : 7mg Fluoxetine + 1mg Diazepam + toothpick Paroxetine 

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MissyE

Hey @Erell just checking in. 

Sorry to see things are hard again; glad you are noticing little improvements though. 

Remember you are a strong lady and each time you rise stronger.  I love your carrot hug!! and send as many as you need right back at you!!

You can get through this.  You have got through it before.  Remember you're winning; and have all the time you need.

You're healing!! We're healing!! We've got this!  I love the recent (long) @brassmonkey quote in @sunnysideup69

It may help you too!

Love Missy x


MissyE

2008 Dec-Feb 2009 GP diazipam; Dec-Jun 2009 fluoxetine. 2010 Jan citalopram approx 4 weeks, Jan- Aug fluox, Oct-Jun 2011 paroxetine; Aug - Dec venlafaxine 37.5mg - 75mg. 2012 Mar-Jul reinstate ven 150mg; Aug swap to fluox 40mg (preg) - Mar 2013  reinstate ven 150mg. 2015 Nov swap to fluox 40mg (preg) Dec suicidal reinstated ven 300mg

2018 Jan ven "pooped" buspirone added/stopped; pentagablin added; March pent stopped & ven taper - 0 June; August betablockers started/ stopped; September mirtazapine 15mg and diazepam 2mg started/stopped; October ven 300mg reinstated. 

2019 Jan psychiatrist added mirt 15mg (aiming for "California rocket fuel" therapeutic dose).  No more meds: gradual taper mirt Feb-April (taken for < 3 weeks).

Commenced ven taper 5-10% 6-10 weekly 2019 April - Nov: 225mg.  Tapering 8 weekly in alignment with menstrual cycle 2020 Jan 212.5mg; Mar 200mg; Jun 187.5mg

Daily: 4g Omega 3 (3g epa & dha) 400IU vitamin E

2 puffs pulmicort inhaler.

This too shall pass.

 

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Altostrata
On 9/14/2020 at 12:14 AM, Erell said:

I "booze".

 

What does this mean?

 

Keep moving the diazepam later, please.


This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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Erell
52 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

 

What does this mean?

I wanted to use the French word "bouiner" and google proposed "booze".

"Bouiner" in French means "wander", starting activities and changing, not really engaging in something, not knowing what to do with yourself.

 

Just made a quick search and see that "booze" is related to alcohol  : I don't drink alcohol, don't touch it, I'm way too afraid.

Wrong translation 😉

 

52 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

Keep moving the diazepam later, please.

 

In the link you provided I read that ingesting food can have an impact on Diazepam metabolization, so today I took it at 11.45am rather than noon.

 

"Absorption is delayed and decreased when administered with a moderate fat meal 9. In the presence of food mean lag times are approximately 45 minutes as compared with 15 minutes when fasting "

 

I don't know if I'm understanding well : if I keep on moving Diazepam later, tomorrow I'll take it after lunch, which could have an impact on the dose level or only on the time taken to be metabolized ?

 

Just wanna make sure that I don't introduce more changes in my dosages in order to try to see patterns if there are any.

 

Hope you're ok on your side, take care ❤

 

Edited by Erell

2006 : 20mg Paroxetine + Bromazepam(no specific dose) 

2008 : cold turkey of both

2010 : 20mg Deroxat + Bromazepam(no specific dose) 

2013: Switch from Bromazepam To Prazepam (long half-life)

2014-June2017 : Prazepam taper, 3% drops. 

2018 to August 2019 : weaning Paroxetine 20mg. 3% every 15 days.

- 22nd August updosed To 10mg (was at 8.4mg) because of a big wave. 

25th Sept 2019 To April 2020 : found SA, holding at 10mg Paroxetine. 

 

April 2020-August 2020 : Paxil to Prozac bridge. Details https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/21457-erell-struggling-with-paroxetine/?do=findComment&comment=499847

 

Current Supplements : magnesium citrate/ fish oil/ evening primrose oil 

Current medication : 7mg Fluoxetine + 1mg Diazepam + toothpick Paroxetine 

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Altostrata

We need to see if activation is caused by fluoxetine or diazepam. Moving them apart makes your symptom pattern clearer.


This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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Adili13

Hey Erell, has the addition of diazepam quelled your symptoms at all? Hope you don’t struggle too severely today. Thinking of you! 


2008: start Lexapro 10 mg which is quickly upped to 20 mg. 2008:2013 try at least four individual times to get off Lexapro, never get lower than 5mg, settle at 15 mg. 2015: again, attempt to get off Lexapro and get to 5 mg. After 6 months, feel i'm stabilizing but go back on a higher dose because of one stressful event. 2016: go to 20 mg from 15 mg due to work stresses, hit severe tolerance for the first time and become very suicidal. 2016-2017: try viibryd and cymbata in an attempt to feel better. Also add Lamictal 150 at some point. 2017: eventually land on paxil 37.5 and Lamictal 150. January 2018: cut paxil to 25. April-July 2018: reduce Lamictal in 50 mg increments till im off August. 2018: reduce paxil to 20 mg. december 2018: dropped Paxil to 18 mg, SEVERE CRASH. March updosed to 20 mg April 11: dropped to 19.4 mg due to akathsia (still experiencing akathsia symptoms from updose) April 20: 19 mg Paxil May 4: 18.7 Paxil July 5: 18.2 July 12: 17.8 Aug 19: 17.5 Aug 26: 17.3 Oct 20: 17.1 Nov 3: 16.9, 8/17/20: 16.6 after nine month hold, 8/24/20: 16.4, 8/31/20:16.2, 9/14/2020: 16.0, 9/21/20: 15.8, 9/28/20: 15.6

 

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Erell
1 hour ago, Adili13 said:

Hey Erell, has the addition of diazepam quelled your symptoms at all? Hope you don’t struggle too severely today. Thinking of you! 

Hello Adili ☺

Well, I honestly don't know. It seems that it helped first days, but now I don't really know.

Really hard to tell what is what these days.

Thank you for your support  ❤


2006 : 20mg Paroxetine + Bromazepam(no specific dose) 

2008 : cold turkey of both

2010 : 20mg Deroxat + Bromazepam(no specific dose) 

2013: Switch from Bromazepam To Prazepam (long half-life)

2014-June2017 : Prazepam taper, 3% drops. 

2018 to August 2019 : weaning Paroxetine 20mg. 3% every 15 days.

- 22nd August updosed To 10mg (was at 8.4mg) because of a big wave. 

25th Sept 2019 To April 2020 : found SA, holding at 10mg Paroxetine. 

 

April 2020-August 2020 : Paxil to Prozac bridge. Details https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/21457-erell-struggling-with-paroxetine/?do=findComment&comment=499847

 

Current Supplements : magnesium citrate/ fish oil/ evening primrose oil 

Current medication : 7mg Fluoxetine + 1mg Diazepam + toothpick Paroxetine 

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Erell
17 hours ago, Altostrata said:

We need to see if activation is caused by fluoxetine or diazepam. Moving them apart makes your symptom pattern clearer.

Yes, I understand that, thank you ❤

I was wondering about the impact of lunch food on Diazepam ingestion.

 

My feeling is that : activation symptoms from too high a dose (8mg) (extreme physical restlessness/ violent intrusive thoughts-impulses/extreme mental restlessness) are gradually being replaced by intense anxiety-terror-dread, like a constant panic attack with harder spikes.

 

 

Tuesday 15th Sept :

 

6am : woke up gloomy, sad, anxious. 

7.30am: breakfast +1 fish oil

8am : Toothpick Paroxetine + 7mg Fluoxetine. 

Everything feels frightening  : taking out the trash, brushing my teeth. My brain is afraid of everything. Intrusive thoughts-impulses are there but low.

9am : Hot flush. huge crying spell. Don't know  why I cry. Like a dark cloud with no colours, no hope.

10am can't stop crying, uncontrollable. + feeling some mental restless, surges to escape.

11.45am : still in huge crying spell, can't stop. Try to listen to relaxing music but it makes me cry too. Mental restless, dread.

Take 1mg Diazepam. 

noon crying spell stop slowly. Low appetite. Force myself to eat a bit.

1pm : mix between exhaustion and high anxiety. Some comforting SI.

Go to bed to relax. 

Feeling exhausted, my eyes close and I kind of fall asleep but everytime I wake up with a jolt and with shortness of breath.

2pm : go out of bed. Despite exhaustion I can't relax so I decide to force myself and go to my grandpa's house to do some cleaning.

4pm: come back home because uncontrollable crying spells are back. Hot flushes.

Some intrusive thoughts-impulses, low.

Try to focus on magazines, can't stop crying. 

6.30pm : 1000mg Evening primrose oil.

Crying spells calm down. High anxiety. Restless legs.

7.30pm : diner. Calmer. Sad, tears in my eyes.

Then go to bed, exhausted.

9pm : anxiety ramps up, very high, shaky. But no terror this evening. 

11.30pm: anxiety calms down a bit. Lights off.

Fall asleep around midnight and slept well until 6.30am. 

 

--》 quite amazed (and grateful) that I sleep so well with the level of chemical anxiety I experience during evenings.

Don't know if it's Diazepam helping or not.

---》 for the third consecutive days, intrusive thoughts-impulses stayed low.

Main issue of the day was uncontrollable crying spells and high shaky anxiety, dread.

Edited by Erell

2006 : 20mg Paroxetine + Bromazepam(no specific dose) 

2008 : cold turkey of both

2010 : 20mg Deroxat + Bromazepam(no specific dose) 

2013: Switch from Bromazepam To Prazepam (long half-life)

2014-June2017 : Prazepam taper, 3% drops. 

2018 to August 2019 : weaning Paroxetine 20mg. 3% every 15 days.

- 22nd August updosed To 10mg (was at 8.4mg) because of a big wave. 

25th Sept 2019 To April 2020 : found SA, holding at 10mg Paroxetine. 

 

April 2020-August 2020 : Paxil to Prozac bridge. Details https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/21457-erell-struggling-with-paroxetine/?do=findComment&comment=499847

 

Current Supplements : magnesium citrate/ fish oil/ evening primrose oil 

Current medication : 7mg Fluoxetine + 1mg Diazepam + toothpick Paroxetine 

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Adili13

@Erell yeah, it’s so

hard to tell when everything is so all over the place. I’ve resonated a lot with your posts about mentally wanting to keep working but physically being incapable due to withdrawal. My scenario has been very similar. I hope you have an ok day. Xx


2008: start Lexapro 10 mg which is quickly upped to 20 mg. 2008:2013 try at least four individual times to get off Lexapro, never get lower than 5mg, settle at 15 mg. 2015: again, attempt to get off Lexapro and get to 5 mg. After 6 months, feel i'm stabilizing but go back on a higher dose because of one stressful event. 2016: go to 20 mg from 15 mg due to work stresses, hit severe tolerance for the first time and become very suicidal. 2016-2017: try viibryd and cymbata in an attempt to feel better. Also add Lamictal 150 at some point. 2017: eventually land on paxil 37.5 and Lamictal 150. January 2018: cut paxil to 25. April-July 2018: reduce Lamictal in 50 mg increments till im off August. 2018: reduce paxil to 20 mg. december 2018: dropped Paxil to 18 mg, SEVERE CRASH. March updosed to 20 mg April 11: dropped to 19.4 mg due to akathsia (still experiencing akathsia symptoms from updose) April 20: 19 mg Paxil May 4: 18.7 Paxil July 5: 18.2 July 12: 17.8 Aug 19: 17.5 Aug 26: 17.3 Oct 20: 17.1 Nov 3: 16.9, 8/17/20: 16.6 after nine month hold, 8/24/20: 16.4, 8/31/20:16.2, 9/14/2020: 16.0, 9/21/20: 15.8, 9/28/20: 15.6

 

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Erell

Hello @brassmonkey 

 

I'm turning to you as I know you manipulate maths better than me.

 

We discussed my dosage calculation today with my father and he thinks I'm wrong. 

I've re-read the link (https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/9167-how-to-calculate-dosages-and-dilutions-spreadsheets-and-calculators/) but have to admit I'm a bit lost between English and a confused brain.

 

Hope I'll make an understandable explanation :

 

Since the beginning of my bridge to Prozac I use the same method :

 

My liquid Prozac is 20mg = 5ml

 

To get my current 7mg dose, I put 2.5ml (=10mg) Prozac in 25ml water. 

I mix up, remove 7.5ml and drink the 17.5ml left.

 

Here is the calculations I use :

 

- I want to take 7mg Prozac, which equals 1.75ml.

- I put 2.5ml Prozac in 25ml water

- As 2.5/25 = 0.1 --> I have 0.1ml of Prozac for every ml of the solution.

- As I want to take 1.75ml of Prozac ---> 1.75/0.1 = 17.5

- 25ml - 17.5 = 7.5 ---> I remove 7.5ml from my solution and drink the 17.5ml left.

 

But my father thinks I'm making a mistake by considering the 25ml instead of using the number 27.5ml (25ml water + 2.5ml Prozac) in my calculations.

He thinks I'm actually taking 7.27mg Prozac, and not 7mg.

 

Would you agree to tell me what you think (if my explanation makes sense) ?

 

Take care ☀️


2006 : 20mg Paroxetine + Bromazepam(no specific dose) 

2008 : cold turkey of both

2010 : 20mg Deroxat + Bromazepam(no specific dose) 

2013: Switch from Bromazepam To Prazepam (long half-life)

2014-June2017 : Prazepam taper, 3% drops. 

2018 to August 2019 : weaning Paroxetine 20mg. 3% every 15 days.

- 22nd August updosed To 10mg (was at 8.4mg) because of a big wave. 

25th Sept 2019 To April 2020 : found SA, holding at 10mg Paroxetine. 

 

April 2020-August 2020 : Paxil to Prozac bridge. Details https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/21457-erell-struggling-with-paroxetine/?do=findComment&comment=499847

 

Current Supplements : magnesium citrate/ fish oil/ evening primrose oil 

Current medication : 7mg Fluoxetine + 1mg Diazepam + toothpick Paroxetine 

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Altostrata
11 hours ago, Erell said:

-》 quite amazed (and grateful) that I sleep so well with the level of chemical anxiety I experience during evenings.

Don't know if it's Diazepam helping or not.

---》 for the third consecutive days, intrusive thoughts-impulses stayed low.

Main issue of the day was uncontrollable crying spells and high shaky anxiety, dread.

 

I believe that your intake of fluoxetine and diazepam is stabilizing. The paroxetine is probably unnecessary.

 

I would keep gradually moving the diazepam later, past mealtimes, until you're taking it in the evening.


This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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brassmonkey

It looks like your father is partially correct.

 

But don't change anything because of it. The way it calculates out is that you are taking a dose that is 3.8% less than you thought. Because you have excess water in the bulk solution you would have less Active Ingredient in your dose. You've been taking this dose for a while now so it's the one you need to be taking. When dealing with doses, consistency is more important than numerical accuracy. As long as you take the same dose every time and get good results, and make your reductions in the same manner, it doesn't matter if it that dose is 7.0 or 7.27.

 

When I was teaching wine making many years ago this dilution concept was one of the harder ones to make people understand. The idea of making a solution IN a liter or TO a liter confused a lot of people, because in English the work TO can have both meanings. If you put something IN a liter, you start with a liter of liquid and add more. If you want to make a solution TO a liter you start with the amount you want dilute and add liquid to it until you get a total of a liter. So, in this case, the word TO is a contraction of "to a total of".

 

When we make our solutions we are using the "to a liter" concept.

 

"To get my current 7mg dose, I put 2.5ml (=10mg) Prozac in 25ml water."  The method you are using would be considered the "IN a  liter" method, and will give you 10% more liquid than you planned for.

 

To get your current 7mg dose, you would put 2.5ml (=10mg) Prozac in 22.5ml water. Using this method is would be the "TO a liter" method, and is the one that we need to use when creating our bulk liquids.

 

Making this change in how you make your bulk liquid would give you an updose of 3.8% or 0.27mg using your current plan. 

 

The underlined sentence above is the key to explaining it to your father.

 

 

 


20 years on Paxil starting at 20mg and working up to 40mg. Sept 2011 started 10% every 6 weeks taper (2.5% every week for 4 weeks then hold for 2 additional weeks), currently at 7.9mg. Oct 2011 CTed 15oz vodka a night, to only drinking 2 beers most nights, totally sober Feb 2013.

Since I wrote this I have continued to decrease my dose by 10% every 6 weeks (2.5% every week for 4 weeks and then hold for an additional 2 weeks). I added in an extra 6 week hold when I hit 10mg to let things settle out even more. When I hit 3mgpw it became hard to split the drop into 4 parts so I switched to dropping 1mgpw (pill weight) every week for 3 weeks and then holding for another 3 weeks.  The 3 + 3 schedule turned out to be too harsh so I cut back to dropping 1mgpw every 4 weeks which is working better.

Current dose 0.000mg 04-15-2017

 

"It's also important not to become angry, no matter how difficult life is, because you can loose all hope if you can't laugh at yourself and at life in general."  Stephen Hawking

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Erell
11 hours ago, brassmonkey said:

When I was teaching wine making many years ago this dilution concept was one of the harder ones to make people understand. The idea of making a solution IN a liter or TO a liter confused a lot of people

Yes, I believe you when you say that this concept was one of the harder one to make people understand : we spent 1hour with my father on this one yesterday 😅

I thank you for your explanation, you have a true talent to make these things clearer ! 

 

11 hours ago, brassmonkey said:

 So, in this case, the word TO is a contraction of "to a total of".

And this is where I got it wrong, ugh language barrier ! 😉

 

But you say

 

11 hours ago, brassmonkey said:

But don't change anything because of it. (...) When dealing with doses, consistency is more important than numerical accuracy. As long as you take the same dose every time 

So yes, I'll keep going with my method in order to take the same dose every morning.

 

Thank you Brassmonkey, it really is priceless to have a place to discuss these concepts and make sure one's calculations are correct.

 

Wish you a delightful and bright day ❤

 

(Ps : As I force myself to try to pinpoint positive outcomes of this ordeal, let me share this one : this maths discussion with my father made me realise that he really is starting to understand the power and dangerousness of these drugs...he even said : "I could make an Excel spreadsheet to help people on your website" ...wow !

I told him that there already are spreadsheets on SA, but really my friends, it has been a long road to convince my family!

Slowly we are going to educate the world...that's my hope ! 😊)

Edited by Erell

2006 : 20mg Paroxetine + Bromazepam(no specific dose) 

2008 : cold turkey of both

2010 : 20mg Deroxat + Bromazepam(no specific dose) 

2013: Switch from Bromazepam To Prazepam (long half-life)

2014-June2017 : Prazepam taper, 3% drops. 

2018 to August 2019 : weaning Paroxetine 20mg. 3% every 15 days.

- 22nd August updosed To 10mg (was at 8.4mg) because of a big wave. 

25th Sept 2019 To April 2020 : found SA, holding at 10mg Paroxetine. 

 

April 2020-August 2020 : Paxil to Prozac bridge. Details https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/21457-erell-struggling-with-paroxetine/?do=findComment&comment=499847

 

Current Supplements : magnesium citrate/ fish oil/ evening primrose oil 

Current medication : 7mg Fluoxetine + 1mg Diazepam + toothpick Paroxetine 

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Erell
16 hours ago, Altostrata said:

I believe that your intake of fluoxetine and diazepam is stabilizing.

That's my hope ! Strong chemical anxiety lead my mind to believe the opposite, thank you for offering your interpretation of my dailynotes (and for your time ❤).

 

I will keep moving Diazepam as you suggested.

 

Might sound silly but I've used a toothpick of Paroxetine this morning, afraid that new changes could make things worse. 

 

Wednesday 16th Sept :

 

7am : wake up anxious. 

Take breakfast + 1fish oil

8am : Toothpick Paroxetine + 7mg Fluoxetine. 

High anxiety, shaky, febrile, terror spikes.

I go outside to take a walk. 

10.30am anxiety keeps ramping up, feeling of going crazy, terror. 

Contracted muscles, shaky.

11.30am still in terror, walk in circles. 

Try to self soothe. Sudden neck pain/burning during half an hour.

Try to cry to relieve some tension but can't. 

noon : Slightly better, can cry a bit. Less shaky. Force myself to eat a bit 

1pm : 1mg Diazepam. 

Go to bed with relaxing music/ Eckhart Tolle's book. Anxiety is high but lower than in the morning. 

Legs pain. Contracted jaw.

2.30pm : anxiety feels lower, more mild. 

I decide to take this opportunity to leave my bed and the house.

Hard but I manage to do some food shopping, drive my car, go to see my grandpa and do some cleaning in his house. 

6pm : 1000mg Evening primrose oil. 

Anxiety ramps up a bit, but no extreme. 

Low mood. 

7.30pm : eat diner. Very low mood with no reason.

8.30pm : Loose myself on SA, then watch some funny cats videos 😇

Then go to bed with sudokus and a book.

Evening: better mood, feel confident.

Anxiety is there but stays mild. 

Lights off at 11pm, fall asleep around midnight and slept well until 7am !

 

 

---》 morning has been particularly hard.

It was like being in an intense panic attack during 4hours with no relief.

It improved during the afternoon and evening.

This pattern (morning worse/evening easier) is different from previous days.

Felt like if I was a different person between morning and end of the day !

---》 again, intrusive thoughts-impulses stayed low.  This is huge, and makes me feel so grateful !


2006 : 20mg Paroxetine + Bromazepam(no specific dose) 

2008 : cold turkey of both

2010 : 20mg Deroxat + Bromazepam(no specific dose) 

2013: Switch from Bromazepam To Prazepam (long half-life)

2014-June2017 : Prazepam taper, 3% drops. 

2018 to August 2019 : weaning Paroxetine 20mg. 3% every 15 days.

- 22nd August updosed To 10mg (was at 8.4mg) because of a big wave. 

25th Sept 2019 To April 2020 : found SA, holding at 10mg Paroxetine. 

 

April 2020-August 2020 : Paxil to Prozac bridge. Details https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/21457-erell-struggling-with-paroxetine/?do=findComment&comment=499847

 

Current Supplements : magnesium citrate/ fish oil/ evening primrose oil 

Current medication : 7mg Fluoxetine + 1mg Diazepam + toothpick Paroxetine 

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Adili13

@Erell I’m so sorry you’re having such a rough time. So good that you’re trying your absolute best to give yourself distractions and things to do in spite of the severity of symptoms (seeing grandpa and doing sudokus). I think it shows your tenacity and strength. Your will to keep going and to fight in the face of all this suffering will serve you so well on your journey! 


2008: start Lexapro 10 mg which is quickly upped to 20 mg. 2008:2013 try at least four individual times to get off Lexapro, never get lower than 5mg, settle at 15 mg. 2015: again, attempt to get off Lexapro and get to 5 mg. After 6 months, feel i'm stabilizing but go back on a higher dose because of one stressful event. 2016: go to 20 mg from 15 mg due to work stresses, hit severe tolerance for the first time and become very suicidal. 2016-2017: try viibryd and cymbata in an attempt to feel better. Also add Lamictal 150 at some point. 2017: eventually land on paxil 37.5 and Lamictal 150. January 2018: cut paxil to 25. April-July 2018: reduce Lamictal in 50 mg increments till im off August. 2018: reduce paxil to 20 mg. december 2018: dropped Paxil to 18 mg, SEVERE CRASH. March updosed to 20 mg April 11: dropped to 19.4 mg due to akathsia (still experiencing akathsia symptoms from updose) April 20: 19 mg Paxil May 4: 18.7 Paxil July 5: 18.2 July 12: 17.8 Aug 19: 17.5 Aug 26: 17.3 Oct 20: 17.1 Nov 3: 16.9, 8/17/20: 16.6 after nine month hold, 8/24/20: 16.4, 8/31/20:16.2, 9/14/2020: 16.0, 9/21/20: 15.8, 9/28/20: 15.6

 

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brassmonkey

I'm glad that your discussions have had a nice positive affect with your father.  It can be very hard for someone not directly involved to understand what we are going through and I commend him for making the effort. Also Thank him for the offer of the spreadsheet. We currently have several excellent ones for determining doses for a taper, but I am coming up with ideas for one on Dilution Ratios, but only have some vague ideas right now.

 

Continuing like you have been will be the best way to keep your doses consistent. Keep proper records and I don't see a problem using this method the whole time.

 

I am very glad I learned English as a native and not a second language. The subtle differences in words because of their usage can be maddening. To, too, and two is just one example. Affect and effect is another one that shows up a lot here at SA. And the one I find on line all the time is Their, there, and they're, people use them incorrectly all the time. Learning Russian was difficult because I had no idea how to go about learning a second language but with practice I was passable. My wife speaks French very well, so I've picked up "enough to get my face slapped". I find other languages fascinating, but totally frustrating at the same time. 


20 years on Paxil starting at 20mg and working up to 40mg. Sept 2011 started 10% every 6 weeks taper (2.5% every week for 4 weeks then hold for 2 additional weeks), currently at 7.9mg. Oct 2011 CTed 15oz vodka a night, to only drinking 2 beers most nights, totally sober Feb 2013.

Since I wrote this I have continued to decrease my dose by 10% every 6 weeks (2.5% every week for 4 weeks and then hold for an additional 2 weeks). I added in an extra 6 week hold when I hit 10mg to let things settle out even more. When I hit 3mgpw it became hard to split the drop into 4 parts so I switched to dropping 1mgpw (pill weight) every week for 3 weeks and then holding for another 3 weeks.  The 3 + 3 schedule turned out to be too harsh so I cut back to dropping 1mgpw every 4 weeks which is working better.

Current dose 0.000mg 04-15-2017

 

"It's also important not to become angry, no matter how difficult life is, because you can loose all hope if you can't laugh at yourself and at life in general."  Stephen Hawking

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Altostrata

How do you feel before you take fluoxetine in the morning? Has your evening symptom pattern changed?


This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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Erell

Hello dear Alto,

 

(I always visualise you playing nicely viola..."alto" means viola in French 🎵😉)

 

13 hours ago, Altostrata said:

 Has your evening symptom pattern changed?

Since 10th Sept, I had spikes of anxiety-terror every evenings.

Last two evenings,  anxiety stayed mild and I have even been able to read a book.

 

13 hours ago, Altostrata said:

How do you feel before you take fluoxetine in the morning? 

I unfortunately don't see a regular pattern.

Some mornings I wake up highly anxious and it remains the same before and after taking Fluoxetine. 

Some mornings I wake up with a surprinsingly good mood and tolerable anxiety and it seems to worsen during morning.

Some mornings I wake up highly anxious and it improves a bit after some hours. 

I'd like to be more specific but my days feel so different one from another.

 

I honestly don't manage to see if something is wrong and could be corrected or if I'm just dealing with a destabilised CNS that needs stability and a long hold.

 

Thursday 17th Sept :

 

7am : woke up in a good mood. Anxiety low. 

Eat breakfast + 1 fish oil capsule. 

8am Toothpick Paroxetine + 7mg Fluoxetine. 

Anxiety ramps up a bit but stays tolerable. Some intrusive thoughts.

Then I discuss with parents in the couch, trying to enjoy the moment.

10.30am anxiety ramps up, I decide to take a walk (40min) outside. 

11.30am anxiety is around 5 ! Wow !

Some intrusive thoughts-impulses.

Feel confident.

Noon : eat lunch. Anxiety still medium. Still intrusive thoughts-impulses, stay mild too.

Then go to bed to meditate and relax.

2pm : 1mg Diazepam. 

Same symptoms, same intensity.

Decide to enjoy my more tolerable state and go in town to walk, stroll, "be in real life".

Some anxiety spikes, probably related to noises, light, heat. But I manage to force myself and enjoy a bit ☺

6pm : 1000mg Evening primrose oil. 

Intrusive thoughts-impulses ramps up a bit. Anxiety still around 5/6. Spend some time in garden with father.

7.30pm : eat diner. Symptoms stay medium.

Evening : take a fresh shower, then go to bed. A bit on SA, then listen to relaxation and read a book. 

Still same intensity of symptoms ❤

Lights off at 11pm, fall asleep around midnight. Sleep good until 7am. 

 

 

--》 Intrusive thoughts-impulses were a bit higher than previous days, but no extreme.

 

--》 Didn't experience extreme levels of symptoms Yesterday  : far from feeling good, but it definitely sounds like a window to me ! ❤

 

--》 I usually have my periods every 29-30 days. Today I realise that last periods were 40 days ago, so it seems that my cycle is messed up since Fluoxetine overstimulation (which I know is not unusual in WD world). It seems that I might not have my periods this month (I don't have the usual physical signs).

Edited by Erell

2006 : 20mg Paroxetine + Bromazepam(no specific dose) 

2008 : cold turkey of both

2010 : 20mg Deroxat + Bromazepam(no specific dose) 

2013: Switch from Bromazepam To Prazepam (long half-life)

2014-June2017 : Prazepam taper, 3% drops. 

2018 to August 2019 : weaning Paroxetine 20mg. 3% every 15 days.

- 22nd August updosed To 10mg (was at 8.4mg) because of a big wave. 

25th Sept 2019 To April 2020 : found SA, holding at 10mg Paroxetine. 

 

April 2020-August 2020 : Paxil to Prozac bridge. Details https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/21457-erell-struggling-with-paroxetine/?do=findComment&comment=499847

 

Current Supplements : magnesium citrate/ fish oil/ evening primrose oil 

Current medication : 7mg Fluoxetine + 1mg Diazepam + toothpick Paroxetine 

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Hanna72

Sweet @Erell

Sending you healing vibes.

You have an amazing spirit and I am just so sure that you will come out of this in time.

Keep having faith and I am so glad that you have your parents support it has so much value.

All the best to you, I am always rooting for you 💖



2000/ got 20mg Paxil  for panic attacks. Many attempts to quit through out the years, without any success.

2019- January started tapering Paxil, 2019-October 10 mg Paxil , getting ready for a bridge with 10 mg Prozac  Took about 1 month during switch. Done with Paxil 2019/ November started tapering 20 mg Prozac  .Took alcohol and coffee out.2019/December 8 mg Prozac 

2020/January 4 mg Prozac 

2020/15/3 .09 mg jumped off

2020 March 16 off Prozac  Quetipine 25 mg used 1 time in 15 months, oxezapam 15 mg used 5 times 

Suppliments: Magnesium, omega 3 fish oil ( epa&dha) D vitamin 

“The two most powerful warriors are patience and time” Leo Tolstoy 

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Altostrata

My guess is moving the diazepam is starting to work, and it's masking symptoms from fluoxetine ramping up later in the day. This is okay. Is it convenient to take diazepam at 3 p.m. each day? If you can take it consistently at 3 p.m., you might hold there for 2 weeks.

 

Then, depending on what happens, you might reduce the fluoxetine a bit.

 

On 9/12/2020 at 9:43 AM, Altostrata said:

My guess the activation is coming from fluoxetine -- peak plasma is 6-8 hours after ingestion.

 


This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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Erell
12 hours ago, Altostrata said:

My guess is moving the diazepam is starting to work, and it's masking symptoms from fluoxetine ramping up later in the day. This is okay. Is it convenient to take diazepam at 3 p.m. each day? If you can take it consistently at 3 p.m., you might hold there for 2 weeks.

 

Saw this too late and took Diazepam at 4pm. Will keep taking it at 4pm from now and hold everything for 2 weeks.

My biggest goal is to feel better, help my CNS to regain some stability, so if I have to get organized to take it in the afternoon, I'll do so. 

And as I've lost my job, my biggest job now is to take care of me. 😉

 

Friday 18th Sept :

 

7am : woke up with some anxiety(low),  incredible good mood, very confident and grateful. Happy to start a new day !

Take breakfast + 1 fish oil capsule. 

8am : same mental state. Some intrusive thoughts-impulses, but low level.

Toothpick Paroxetine + 7mg Fluoxetine. 

Back to bed to meditate and listen to audio relaxation. 

9.30am : anxiety ramps up, intrusive thoughts impulses increase too. Hard but no extreme.

I decide to take a walk outside, then spend time in the garden.

11am : Feeling sad with no reason,  some hopelessness. Anxiety and intrusive thoughts-impulses still higher than in the beginning of the day.

Decide to cook to change the channel because I feel I could spiral very fast.

Noon : Still in the same state : anxiety and sadness, . Some tears. Intrusive thoughts decrease. 

Eat lunch. 

Then go to bed to relax, listening to hypnosis.

2pm : play with cat. Want to cry without knowing why. So weird after this morning good mood !

3pm : 1mg Diazepam.  Anxiety is medium take this opportunity to go in town to do some shopping, walk, live !

Mood is "blah".

6pm 1000mg evening primrose oil. 

watch tv with parents. 

Random burning feelings (tolerable) : esophagus, skull, face.

Anxiety and intrusive thoughts, but nothing extreme, medium.

7.30pm eat diner. 

Then spend some time on my Phone, discuss with parents, take a fresh shower, play with cat.

9pm : go to bed feeling "almost normal ", symptoms are low ! ❤

Do some sudokus, read a book.

Lights off at 11pm,  fall asleep around midnight and slept well until 7am.

 

 

--》 hard to believe that it is the same person that woke up in her bed Thursday and Friday with such a good mood and medium anxiety, or felt better in the afternoons and evenings, while the beginning of the week was so hard !

This relief is welcome 😊

 

Thank you Alto. 

 


2006 : 20mg Paroxetine + Bromazepam(no specific dose) 

2008 : cold turkey of both

2010 : 20mg Deroxat + Bromazepam(no specific dose) 

2013: Switch from Bromazepam To Prazepam (long half-life)

2014-June2017 : Prazepam taper, 3% drops. 

2018 to August 2019 : weaning Paroxetine 20mg. 3% every 15 days.

- 22nd August updosed To 10mg (was at 8.4mg) because of a big wave. 

25th Sept 2019 To April 2020 : found SA, holding at 10mg Paroxetine. 

 

April 2020-August 2020 : Paxil to Prozac bridge. Details https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/21457-erell-struggling-with-paroxetine/?do=findComment&comment=499847

 

Current Supplements : magnesium citrate/ fish oil/ evening primrose oil 

Current medication : 7mg Fluoxetine + 1mg Diazepam + toothpick Paroxetine 

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Altostrata

How long have you been taking diazepam at 4 p.m.? If convenient, that could be a good time for your regular dose.

 

Appears to me you're taking too much fluoxetine. Once diazepam dosing gets settled, you may wish to reduce fluoxetine by 0.5mg.


This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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Erell
19 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

How long have you been taking diazepam at 4 p.m.? If convenient, that could be a good time for your regular dose.

Today is the only day I took it at 4pm.

Yesterday I took it at 3pm, the day before at 2pm, and so on.

I will now hold my Diazepam dose at 4pm.

 

19 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

Appears to me you're taking too much fluoxetine. Once diazepam dosing gets settled, you may wish to reduce fluoxetine by 0.5mg.

Thank you for offering your external point of view Alto, really.

As you suggested, I will hold everything for the next 2 weeks and reassess then.

 

Hope things are ok on your side  ❤

Edited by Erell

2006 : 20mg Paroxetine + Bromazepam(no specific dose) 

2008 : cold turkey of both

2010 : 20mg Deroxat + Bromazepam(no specific dose) 

2013: Switch from Bromazepam To Prazepam (long half-life)

2014-June2017 : Prazepam taper, 3% drops. 

2018 to August 2019 : weaning Paroxetine 20mg. 3% every 15 days.

- 22nd August updosed To 10mg (was at 8.4mg) because of a big wave. 

25th Sept 2019 To April 2020 : found SA, holding at 10mg Paroxetine. 

 

April 2020-August 2020 : Paxil to Prozac bridge. Details https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/21457-erell-struggling-with-paroxetine/?do=findComment&comment=499847

 

Current Supplements : magnesium citrate/ fish oil/ evening primrose oil 

Current medication : 7mg Fluoxetine + 1mg Diazepam + toothpick Paroxetine 

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Altostrata

A week might be enough. You've been moving diazepam slowly.


This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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Cigale
18 hours ago, Erell said:

Happy to start a new day !

 

Such wonderful news chère @Erell! You are brave and resilient and inspiring! 🤗 


2008-2016 - Lexapro 10 mg, tapered to 2.5 mg over one year then CT
Feb 2, 2019 to July 24, 2019 - restart Lexapro 5 mg; July 25, 2019 increase Lexapro 10 mg
Nov 20, 2019 to Dec 11, 2019 - way too fast taper from Lexapro 10 mg to 7.5 mg to 5 mg to 0
Dec 12, 2019 to Feb 4, 2020 - drug free until horrible WD hit
Feb 5, 2020 to Feb 16, 2020 - started Paxil 10 mg, resulted in very bad reaction
Feb 18, 2020 - current - reinstate Lexapro 5 mg to stabilize before taper

 

daily meditation 10-40 minutes, yoga 30 minutes; biweekly CBT & ACT therapy

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Mimi79

Hi dear Erell!


I’m so happy you are seeing some improvements. What a relief it should be!
You are so strong and you don’t let your bad thoughts overcoming you. This is where I have some struggles. I’m listening too much to my catastrophic thoughts. 

 

I’ve found a way to « change my channel » and you will laugh at me. J’écoute en replay les émissions de « Ça commence aujourd’hui »! Ça me change les idées et en plus je pleur presqu’à chaque émission! C’est très libérateur! 😁

 

Hope you’ll have a wonderful day and I send you big hugs from Montreal.❤️

 

Mimi79


 


Oct 2007 - aug 2008: Mirtazapine (for insomnia). Tapered from march until august 2008.

Sept 2008 - Anxiety relapse, so been put on 20mg Celexa - tapered from feb 2009 until august 2010. Dec 2009-Sept 2010: Celexa, Cymbalta. Quit C/T both.

Sept 2010 - Jan 2015: Paxil 20mg.  Jan 2015 - Paxil Poop-out so tapered very fast (over 3 weeks) then switched to 30mg mirtazapine.  Suffered very bad w/d symptoms for

                    3  months. March 2015 - Mirt didn't work so switched to 100mg Pristiq.

April 2015 to oct 2018 : Mirtazapine 30mg + Pristiq 50mg. March 2018 to Dec 2018: Tapered Pristiq (by switching to effexor) and updosed Mirtazapine to 45mg.

June 2019: Adverse reaction to short use of Zopiclone (1 week use). GP put me on Zoloft 50mg. Adverse reaction to Zoloft so stopped it after 10 days.

June 2019-aug 2019: Fast taper of Mirtazapine, sept 2019 hit bad W/D symptoms, so updosed to 45mg. GP put me on 10mg Lexapro, C/T after 4 weeks.

Dec 2019-Jan 2020: Tapered Mirtazapine (45mg down to 37.5mg), but end of january, hit a wall of symptoms, so updose again to 45mg Mirtazapine.

Feb 2020: GP added 50mg SeroquelXR and upped Mirtazapine to 52.5mg. Stopped SeroquelXR after 2 weeks.

21 Feb 2020, found SA and staying on 45mg Mirtazapine, waiting for stabilization.

Seroquel 25mg on and off to help sleep, since may 2019. Ativan 0,5mg PRN, since oct 2019.  Early march '20, stopped both seroquel and ativan.

Supplements: Magnesium Glycinate, Omega-3, B complex vit., D vit. 1000UI. Melatonin, probiotic.

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Erell

@Mimi79 and @Cigale : thank you, your support is always like a warm hug for my heart 🤗

My days are still hard, but the relief is so sweet.

I hope you have some relief too ❤

 

1 hour ago, Mimi79 said:

You are so strong and you don’t let your bad thoughts overcoming you. This is where I have some struggles. I’m listening too much to my catastrophic thoughts. 

You might see me stronger than I am 😅

I struggle with my thoughts too, as so many here. It takes practice to not identify to thoughts, and I'm still learning ;)

I've read a sentence I love in a book :

 

"Don't take your thoughts too seriously" 

 

Simple sentence, but powerfull ☺

 

Saturday 19 Sept 

 

7am : woke up with a great mood, anxiety is low. Take breakfast + 1 fish oil capsule. 

8am : anxiety ramps up gradually since I woke up.

Toothpick Paroxetine + 7mg Fluoxetine. 

Go back to bed to meditate. 

9am : anxiety at 6 (medium), feel shaky.

Strong pain in lower back, some legs pain.

10am same anxiety + hard to move because of back pain (this is new for me). Stay in bed with soft music, sudoku... all morning. 

Noon : same + low mood. Nothing extreme, just feel tired of living with chemical anxiety, of the consequences of WD on my life.

Eat lunch.

Then go back to bed, no impetus to try.

2pm : suddenly, lower back pain disappear (!). Low mood and medium anxiety. 

I decide to go out of my bed and try to use a sewing machine to focus my mind on something else than my mourning thoughts. 

Will manage to focus 2hours on the same activity ! 

4pm 1mg Diazepam. 

Same symptoms (low mood, some SI, medium anxiety).

Decide to do some gardening.

6pm : Feeling ok (wow). Some anxiety but low.

1000mg evening primrose oil. 

7.30pm : eat lunch. 

Then discuss with parents, play with cat, some time on my phone.

9pm : anxiety ramps up a bit, but stay very tolerable. Good mood.

Fall asleep around 11.30pm, sleep well until 7am.

 

--》 despite struggling with anxiety and depressed feelings during the day, I notice that for the third consecutive day I don't have extreme spikes of symptoms and my evenings get really easier.

And I sleep very well. Wow !

So grateful!


2006 : 20mg Paroxetine + Bromazepam(no specific dose) 

2008 : cold turkey of both

2010 : 20mg Deroxat + Bromazepam(no specific dose) 

2013: Switch from Bromazepam To Prazepam (long half-life)

2014-June2017 : Prazepam taper, 3% drops. 

2018 to August 2019 : weaning Paroxetine 20mg. 3% every 15 days.

- 22nd August updosed To 10mg (was at 8.4mg) because of a big wave. 

25th Sept 2019 To April 2020 : found SA, holding at 10mg Paroxetine. 

 

April 2020-August 2020 : Paxil to Prozac bridge. Details https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/21457-erell-struggling-with-paroxetine/?do=findComment&comment=499847

 

Current Supplements : magnesium citrate/ fish oil/ evening primrose oil 

Current medication : 7mg Fluoxetine + 1mg Diazepam + toothpick Paroxetine 

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Frogie

@Erell

 

Just wanted to stop by and wish you well wishes.

I saw you quoted a book in your post.

I have a quote my therapist told me that I say to myself at least 10 times a day:

"Today is a good day for a good day".

You will see better days. They are just around the corner💖

Take care,

Frogie xx

 


PREVIOUS medications and discontinuations: Have been on medications since 1996. 

 Valium, Gabapentin, Lamictal and Prilosec from 2000 to 2015 with a fast taper by a psychiatrist.

 Liquid Lexapro Nov, 2016 to 31-March, 2019 Lexapro free!!! (total Lexapro taper was 4 years-started with pill form)

---CURRENT MEDICATIONS:Supplements:Milk Thistle, Metamucil, Magnesium Citrate, Vitamin D3

 Xanax 1mg three times a day June, 2000 to 19-September, 2020 Went from .150 grams (average weight of 1 Xanax) three times a day to .003 grams three times a day.

19-September, 2020 Xanax free!!!

 

 

I am not a medical professional. The suggestions I make are based on personal experience.

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