Erell: struggling with paroxetine

[Rosetta]

Dearest Erell,

 

I know that my words can do very little.  I know that all the care for you that the members of this site feel cannot touch what you are enduring.  It’s very hard to see you suffering and be impotent, but not as hard as it is for you to be in your suffering.  That said, what the others have said is so very true.  You are infinitely special.  You have given so much of yourself here, and what you have done for us is enough.  You need not have anything to give.  We are here for you, regardless.

 

I know that feeling of continuing to exist because family members have ask you to do so.  It’s an existence of conflicted emotions on top of the suffering caused by withdrawal.  
 

Paxil is, well . . . it’s not nice.  I’m glad you are holding on because even Paxil is no match for you.  I know you cannot feel the optimism right now, but I have enough for both of us, and you will recover.  Someday.  Yes, that’s cold comfort.  
 

Please know how much we are love you and stay strong.

 

🧚‍♀️Rosetta

[Carmie]

Dear @Erell My heart goes out to you, I’m so extremely sorry that you’re suffering so much. You are such a kind and caring soul, sending much love your way💛

[Rosetta]

I’m thinking of you @Erell.  All my love to you! 🧚‍♀️Rosetta

[Oaktree1]

Hi Erell,

 

Just popped on to say that I am hoping that you are hanging in there.

 

Oaktree1

[Greatful]

@Erell  Sending encouragement and hugs. 🌞

[mustafa]

On 4/4/2023 at 5:42 PM, Erell said:

Hello,

Thank you for your thoughts, I apologise for not updating since December. I don't really know what to reply.

I'll soon be 3years since my prozac bridge, and these last 7 months have been the hardest with worse and new symptoms. If someone had told me that the third year would be the hardest for me in withdrawal.

I haven't touched anything since last October, because despite making only very small drops of prozac, it didn't seem to help . And after 5months of holding, it is not getting better either.

In January, I considered taking paroxetine again in the hope of regaining some semblance of life (which sounds weird knowing that paroxetine has robbed me of so much), but after 3 years I know the risks are very high, so I didn't.

I would have hoped to be part of the healing stories, but by deteriorating as time passes since stopping paroxetine, my story is just absurd, so I try to stop hoping and I learn to resign myself and to expect nothing more from life, it's easier and hurt less.

I made a promise to my family, so I just wait for my days to pass.

That's why I haven't replied sooner, I don’t find something in myself to give and I don't feel optimistic anymore.
But I always think of the members of this community with great tenderness and wish you very sweet days ❤️

hello Erell,

i have something to tell you here. 6 months after cold turkeying the drugs, i finished my engagement because of the symptomts. i didn't feel any thing when i was then, and i decided to end my relationship to gain some peace from the responsibility of marriage that i was sure i wasn't ready to have. like you iam still struggling any i spend days and days that i would describe they are the hell. now and after some time, my ex fiancee is about to marry another one and iam still in my pain, just struggling and what i can only do is feel sad or regret. i felt like my life suddenly turned into suffer, i forgot the feeling of being happy or calm inside my soul, just continous pain. some times this gets me down and pessimistic like you say but the other times i say is that life is about the moment. i always convince my self that i will be thrice as happy as i could have been without starting the drugs in the first place, just when i feel peace. it is a moment Erell, just a moment that everything will disappear there. for many times i felt that you are the bravest and strongest girl i have ever talked to. this is what i know about you. this is Erell. just complete your journey and go to the safe side raising your chin up and saying: i did it

[Rosetta]

Thinking of you, Erell. 💜 🧚‍♀️

[mustafa]

@Erell waiting for you to be online. thinking of you erell

[Erell]

Hello, 
Thank you for your thoughts.
I apologize for not replying sooner. I'm hanging in there.

I would like to offer more to peer support, you have given me so much. I live in a giant panic attack since August 2019, I am drained and don't know what I have faith in anymore. I just don't know how to interact or what to say anymore.
I always think of the people here with a lot of love and I'm glad that people like you exist. 🧡

[Sottana]

@Erell thinking of you, Erell. I know your pain 

[mstimc]

Dear Erell

 

You are in my thoughts, my friend. Sending you strength and peace from across the ocean!

[wantrelief]

Dearest @Erell You are very much in my heart and thoughts.

[Greatful]

@Erell

Thank you for taking what little energy you may have to reach out to us. There are so many here that are pulling for you.

Always remember you are not alone on this painful journey.  Yes lonely but not alone.  We may not be there physically but yet we are with you. Keep visiting here on your thread and look for are encouragement.♥️  It's okay that you are having a hard time talking, I get it, I feel the same most of the time now.  Battle fatigue is so strong at times.  You are so strong Erell🌞

 

[getofflex]

Erell, I think about you and pray for you every day.  I know you are in a long wave right now, and I very much wish I could do something to take that away.  Please don't give up.  I know what you are going through is very discouraging, but I'm glad to hear you are hanging on.  Alto took a long time to recover from a Paxil CT,but she did eventually recover, and this is similar to what happened to you when you did the bridge.  I have faith that you will too.  

[Carmie]

Sending you much love @Erell💛

[Oaktree1]

On 6/8/2023 at 8:03 AM, Erell said:

I live in a giant panic attack since August 2019, I am drained and don't know what I have faith in anymore. I just don't know how to interact or what to say anymore.
I always think of the people here with a lot of love and I'm glad that people like you exist.

Hi Erell,

 

I am sorry that you are suffering to this degree but I am very glad to hear that you are still hanging in there despite this.  RESPECT! 

 

I have been in a giant panic attack more or less since December 2018.  I have small windows, very small where I might feel a bit of peace but mostly every day is a giant attempt to distract myself from ongoing SI and despair and terror and awful rumination about the past.  I remember what it was like to feel calm so - I am sharing it here as an attempt to let you know that you are not alone.  I can remember the person I was before I cold turkeyed off drugs in 2014 and the person I was before I had a too fast withdrawal from Cymbalta in 2018.  I was a different person.  It is disheartening to experience how these drugs can seem to reduce us as individuals - to shrivel our attention, our sense of peace, our confidence and engagement with the world particularly when most of the world including the people who should know better like medical professionals and sadly in many cases our immediate family are only too ready to deny our reality with the 'you've had a relapse'; 'it's your mental illness not the drugs'. 

 

Additionally in your case, I think perhaps you might feel a sense of misguided shame because you have been so supportive and so incredibly kind to the people on this site that you are not feeling out of the woods or better at this point because you are a moderator.  I hope this is not presumptuous of me to write this.  I remember listening to an interview with Nicole Lamberson from the 'Medicating Normal' team where she spoke about the long lasting psychological impact of withdrawal from drugs.  

 

So I think you need to cut yourself a break - it is awesome to see your post and awesome to hear that you are still there.  Do you know Samuel Beckett at all?  I love his line 'I can't go on; I'll go on'.  That line really helps me.  His work is all about despair, the fact that ultimately things are futile but what gives us meaning along the way is compassion and humour.  You know all about compassion as you have given it so limitlessly to so many people on this site.  Your post on my topic last Christmas made a huge difference to me at that time.  The kindness of your words made that time a little easier to bear.  I hope that you can give some of that compassion to yourself and give yourself the patience and kindness that you deserve at this time  

 

Oaktree1.

 

[Aurorax]

Hi Erell!

 

I tried to stay away from SA and haven't visited your thread in a year, but now I have to write to you. I'm sorry you are feeling worse.

 

On 4/4/2023 at 5:42 PM, Erell said:

I'll soon be 3years since my prozac bridge, and these last 7 months have been the hardest with worse and new symptoms. If someone had told me that the third year would be the hardest for me in withdrawal.

 

I'm going to say again what no one else here wants to say: Year 3 is not supposed to be the hardest in WD. You shouldn't be getting worse and get new symptoms at this point. I have believed since reading your story for the first time that you mainly suffer from Prozac side effects.

 

On 4/4/2023 at 5:42 PM, Erell said:

would have hoped to be part of the healing stories, but by deteriorating as time passes since stopping paroxetine, my story is just absurd, so I try to stop hoping and I learn to resign myself and to expect nothing more from life, it's easier and hurt less.

 

Just because your story doesn't fit the SA narrative doesn't mean there is no hope. That just means that holding and waiting (the SA philosophy that has helped many people) doesn't work when symptoms are side effects.

 

On 1/1/2023 at 6:31 PM, Erell said:

Thank you for this clear explanation: it makes a lot more sense than what I understood from my doctor's speech, which implied that the drug concentration would keep increasing and increasing if the person was a slow metabolizer.

 

The drug concentration can keep increasing if you are a slow metabolizer. The slower metabolizer you are, the higher concentration of the drug in your blood. A few people are unable to metabolize a drug at all and may die from an overdose eventually. I don't think that's what is happening to you, but please, please take a cyp test. That does not mean that you should swish to another drug if it turns out you are a slow metabolizer.

 

On 12/31/2022 at 9:22 PM, Altostrata said:

I shared with him that I had found a psychotherapist to work with from January on my fear of intrusive thoughts, and his answer was: “That's great, but if you are a poor metabolizer and if it's a side effect, it will keep on increasing anyway”.
(Just when I share that I need help, he finds nothing better to do than to reinforce my fear, great!)

 

One of few times where I belive your doctor is right.

 

I know you have enough strength to carry on like this for ten more years if needed. I just don't think you would have to if you got off Prozac. You may get temporarily worse during the taper, but what is the option if you get worse on the drug?

 

Sorry for sounding alarming instead of cheerful. I care deeply about you, and I'm worried. None of this is medical advice. It's just the advice I would give myself or a loved one.

 

Sending you hugs ❤️

 

Aurorax

[Rosetta]

I’m thinking of you, Erell, and sending you all my love.  I’m so sorry you a suffering so.  Rosetta 🧚🏻‍♀️

[arbor]

Dear @Erell  I share my own experience of being on a 3 year Prozac bridge during which I was getting worse and worse.  Finally I could see that it was doing harm to my body and mind.  As soon as I was off all AD's, issues like BP, GI distress, diabetes, etc. resolved.  I wish I had tapered slowly.  Perhaps my w/d would have been less uncomfortable.  However, despite the slowness of recovery, I am better.  Accepting what has happened has been difficult for me.  Enduring the slowness of emotional healing is still a nearly daily challenge, but I can say, I physically and mentally feel that I'm going in the right direction.  I don't share this as advice, but only if it can be useful to you.  I am so glad to be free of AD's.

Big hugs to you, Erell💜

Arbor

[Altostrata]

@Erell how do you feel after reducing Prozac several weeks ago?

[Erell]

Hello,

Thank you very much for your support, really. ❤️

 

I haven't replied much this year for many reason, mostly exhaustion and battle-fatigue, and because when I visited here I received as much advice one way (hold prozac) as the other (reduce prozac). Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining about having received so much support and advice, on the contrary, I can't thank you enough for giving me the strength to carry on!
But I realised that my indecision and doubts must have been frustrating for those who were trying to give me their point of view.

So I decided to stop burdening others with these questions and to stick to a personal decision, which was very hard to be honest.

 

→ Either I am suffering from an adverse reaction to prozac in addition to paroxetine withdrawal.

→ Or my drops in prozac, however small, were just further destabilising my nervous system, which was suffering after stopping paroxetine.

 

Having a genetic test to see how my body metabolises prozac is tempting, but I don't have the financial resources to pay 300 euros.

Continuing to reduce the Prozac was also tempting, as I still want to be free of these poisons, but I also wanted to see what would happen if I did nothing for at least 6 months.

Some people are strong enough to decide to lower their dose no matter what it takes , but that's not my case.

39 months after my paxil to prozac bridge, I know that if I had to return to the hell of extreme restlessness and the impossibility of sleeping and stopping walking/moving, I wouldn't survive it this time.

 

So I’m holding since October 2022.

 

In August 2023, 9 months in the hold, some things have improved:

 – Body much less agitated, less internal restlessness, my body is able to relax

– I can sleep, I have far fewer adrenaline jolts and jolts from sleep

– I feel less and less like I'm having trouble breathing, that my chest is too tight to breathe

– Less 'physical' terror, less adrenaline, my body no longer seems to be racing mad with tension and hypervigilance

So holding seems to have allowed my body to calm down.

 

However, some things haven’t changed (OCD/intrusive thoughts still as intense as at the beginning) and others are worse than a year ago and seem to be getting worse with time:

– Fatigue+++

– Nervous overload: everything is too much, the light, the noise, the presence of other people, I always feel like I'm having a 'sensory burn-out' (as a result, agoraphobia+++)

– Brain zap at the end of the day

– Fatigue +++, sometimes exhaustion hits me and I find it hard to keep my eyes open (which isn't unpleasant when I think of all the times I've dreamt of being able to sleep, but this fatigue is at the other extreme).

– Blurred vision, derealization, head pressure

– Lots of sensations in my head, dizzyness and sudden drops in blood pressure

– Low mood, psychologically exhausted, suicidal thoughts

 

These worsening symptoms are concerning, but as y blood test results are always in the normal ranges, I'm not sure how to interpret it.
It almost looks like a “poop-out”.

 

As I'm still living with my parents and there will be several family members at home over the next few weeks, I've decided to keep holding for the time being. I'm going to assess things again at the end of the summer, and I'm thinking of gradually tapering prozac after 1 year of holding and seeing how my state is evolving.

 

Ok, that was a bit lengthy, but with all the support you've generously offered me, it was perhaps time for me to give you a bit of news.

I send you all my love and will make every effort to visit your threads in the coming days to hear from you. ❤️ 

(Hello @Altostrata, I hope you're having a nice summer! I haven't changed my dose since October 2022, I've been holding for 9 months.)

Edited August 5, 2023 by Erell

[brassmonkey]

It's so nice to hear that some things are improving. Sounds like you have come up with a plan that is working.

 

(((((((((((((((MONKEY HUGS)))))))))))))

[arbor]

1 hour ago, Erell said:

So holding seems to have allowed my body to calm down.

This is good news @Erell.  I'm so glad.  Thank you for this update.  Please forgive me if my own view of the drugs was too strong.  More than anything, I support your decisions.  Before experiencing w/d from AD's I could never have imagined how horrendous it can be.  Please know you are in my heart.💜  Arbor 

[wantrelief]

It is good to hear from you, Erell.  I have really missed your presence here.  I am very heartened to hear that some of your symptoms have improved, that your body has calmed with holding.....I am so glad you have found some peace midst the storm. At the same time,  I am really sorry you are still suffering with some intense symptoms.  I know how wearing all of this is, the battle fatigue is difficult in itself. But you are enduring and sensibly thinking through your next steps.  I am with you as we continue forward on this most difficult of journeys.  I am thinking of you and sending you lots of love, WR 💖

[Rosetta]

Thank you for posting.  I’m glad to know how you are.  It is very good news that the sleeplessness, agitation and pacing have gone.  That is wonderful!  All the symptoms you are having aside, to have less hyper-vigilance and less physical terror means your system is finding a balance.  Now, those other symptoms are rough, no doubt, and the exhaustion is not surprising.  I’m so grateful that you have a safe place to rest and recover from all you have experienced.  I’ll be thinking of you dear Erell.

-🧚🏻‍♀️Rosetta

[mstimc]

Dear Erell

Healing come in its own time and sometimes in small ways we hardly notice until we look back and can see how far we've come.  You are on the road to recovery.  It may be long and steep in some places, but like any worthy journey, stay on your chosen path.  You are so  much stronger than your anxiety is telling you--you will recover!

[Altostrata]

On 8/5/2023 at 12:08 PM, Erell said:

In August 2023, 9 months in the hold, some things have improved:

 – Body much less agitated, less internal restlessness, my body is able to relax

– I can sleep, I have far fewer adrenaline jolts and jolts from sleep

– I feel less and less like I'm having trouble breathing, that my chest is too tight to breathe

– Less 'physical' terror, less adrenaline, my body no longer seems to be racing mad with tension and hypervigilance

 

Also relieved you have finally seen some improvement, @Erell

 

It could be that the Paxil withdrawal syndrome has finally worn itself out, but you are experiencing other effects from the Prozac. 

 

How's your sleep?

[Erell]

Hello ❤️

 

@Altostrata I am also relieved to experience some improvement from the terror and the agitation! 
I sleep well, between 7 and 9 hours a night. I have some "adrenaline jolts" and "muscle jerks" while falling asleep, but once I'm asleep, I generally sleep good.
I don't want to complain, because I've been dreaming about these nights for a long time.
I wake up exhausted and never feel rested, which is understandable after years of being on high alert.
But what concerns me is that this exhaustion and this constant feeling of being in sensory overload, in sensitivity overload even when I'm not doing much, seems to get worse rather than better with time.

 

@Rosetta Thank you very much for your kind thoughts. You are right, I am extremely lucky to have a safe place to rest ❤️ I have the impression that the more time goes by, the less my family believe I can suffer from withdrawal, and they probably think I'm just "mentally ill". But even if that's the case and if it frustrates them, they respect my choices, my decisions, and my 'limited' lifestyle, and I realise that's a privilege that many 'psychiatrized' people don't have.

 

@mstimc @brassmonkey Thank you for your precious support on this path ❤️

 

@wantrelief I really missed you! You know, last months have been so hard, I almost forgot I had friends and now, reading you, I realize how much I've missed reading your words and sharing support. I will read your thread soon to know how you are doing! ❤️ 

 

@arbor Nothing to forgive! You know, for the first time in this long journey, I stopped looking for someone to save me from myself, I made a decision and I sticked to it, trying to learn to have faith in myself and my choices. It was hard, I won't lie, and I can never be sure that my decisions are the good ones. I still doubt everyday and still hope for someone to predict the future for me or save from fear of uncertainty. But I also know that sticking to my decision has been an important step in my life. And I only want to thank you, because your support has been invaluable on this path! ❤️ 

Edited August 7, 2023 by Erell

[getofflex]

Erell, I'm truly thrilled to hear that you have had some improvements!  I thought about you very often all this time, even when you went a while without posting.  It's wonderful to hear that you are getting some good sleep, and are no longer on high alert as much as before, and having less terror and agitation.  It sounds as if your nervous system is settling down.  I'll continue to pray for your exhaustion and sensory overload.  It's so good to hear from you.  Please hang in there, this is a long and difficult road, but it will come to an end eventually.   

[Gridley]

@Erell

I am thrilled to hear you have had some relief.

 

When I think of you, I think of these words:

strength

courage

fortitude

resiliency

endurance

 

You are my heroine.

 

 

 

[Altostrata]

@Erell what times o'clock do you take your drugs, with their dosages?

[Oaktree1]

Hi Erell,

 

Oaktree1 here - whew...I was glad when I saw your post...you seem to have made the best and wisest decision by listening to yourself.  When I read the symptoms you have had - I can relate - intrusive thoughts and sensory overload - they are just awful and cause suffering that normies have no clue about  - but at last you are getting real sleep and have a family that is supporting you - that is worth its weight in gold.  The hyper vigilance and constant state of impending doom is declining - that is a massive improvement if your parasympathetic nervous system is  beginning to calm down.   The exhaustion sounds like your body finally relaxing a bit so you actually feel tired but I'm no expert. 

 

It is great to see some evening out of your symptoms - takes sheer guts and resilience.  People crossing the world single handedly on yachts are nowhere near as courageous as people coming off psychotropic drugs.  

 

Hope things continue to balance out and improve for you at last.

 

Oaktree1

[Erell]

On 8/8/2023 at 8:22 PM, Altostrata said:

@Erell what times o'clock do you take your drugs, with their dosages?

 

Hello Alto, 
I take (holding since 9 months):

– 6.16 mg Prozac at 8 am
– 0.85 mg Diazepam at 7 pm

[Altostrata]

On 8/7/2023 at 2:06 AM, Erell said:

But what concerns me is that this exhaustion and this constant feeling of being in sensory overload, in sensitivity overload even when I'm not doing much, seems to get worse rather than better with time.

 

It may be time to sneak off the diazepam, at least part way.

[Erell]

On 8/11/2023 at 1:35 AM, Altostrata said:

 

It may be time to sneak off the diazepam, at least part way.

Thanks you Altostrata.

I will reassess things at the end of the summer, when the house will be calmer.

Take care ❤️

[mustafa]

On 8/10/2023 at 4:18 PM, Erell said:

 

Hello Alto, 
I take (holding since 9 months):

– 6.16 mg Prozac at 8 am
– 0.85 mg Diazepam at 7 pm

hello erell.

iam sorry i haven't been keeping up following your updates, and of course because of my symptomts, but iam really impressed with what you did and being doing. it may be old but i thought i might happened to you at some time that you told yourself: iam not gonna be able at all to stop paroxetine never ever, but look what you did. you are amazing Erell. i really admired your resilience and insisting, no matter how painful you felt all over the journey. keep up the patience erell. you are gonna get there.