Erell: struggling with paroxetine

[Erell]

Hi all !

I have a question : the 3 past days were extremely difficult in terms of despair, and had also High anxiety. This morning I woke up with my periods. Today, I Feel in general much less despair, still High anxiety. So :

- am I in a window ? Find it weird because I still have High anxiety.

 

- am I in a wave and symptoms change? Find it weird because it means I'm in a wave since 1 month, but symptoms change.

 

- are am I healing gradually and the wave of despair happened because of my periods ?

 

- or am I experiencing waves and Windows in really short time? Like minutes or hours.

 

I hope my interrogations are understandable. 

Maybe no one can answer To that, especially when you're not in somebody's Shoes. Not an emergency either,  just trying To understand the best the process and my situation. I've reread my diaries ,but find difficult To observe a pattern or any régularity. Don't know where I am in the process. I Would be highly interested by points of views.

 

Best wishes To all of you!!!

[Sassenach]

Hi Erell

 

Did not know how many mods so counted today, 22.

1 to 5 online at any one time depending on time of day and time zone.

2 hours ago, Erell said:

To observe a pattern

The only pattern is "there is no pattern ".

 

2 hours ago, Erell said:

This morning I woke up with my periods.

pms-pmdd-and-menstrual-cycle-issues-during-withdrawal-and-after/

2 hours ago, Erell said:

Feel in general much less despair, still High anxiety. So :

- am I in a window ? Find it weird because I still have High anxiety.

It may be a brief window but more likely the magnesium is having a calming effect.

Will be interesting to see how you feel tomorrow.

 

Sass

[Erell]

I opened my mouth too quickly : despair has hit me back this afternoon and now I can't stop crying, hopeless.  Such a rollercoaster! This is so hard. 

 

[Erell]

Good morning. 

 

Diary day 14 on 10mg Paroxetine  / tuesday 8 October / 

 

6am : woke up anxious (6) / belly and muscles aches

8am : 10mg Paroxetine / feal weak and tired

10am : anxiety : 5 / despair: 6

11am : anxiety at 7

12 : anxiety: 5 / despair: 5

1pm : despair at 7

2pm : took a shower . Anxiety: 5 / despair: 4

2.45 pm : went To see the sea

3.30pm : went back home because of anxiety 

4.30 pm : Spike of despair (8), can't stop crying, quick suicidal thoughts. 

5.30pm : despair decreased at 6. Anxiety: 5

6pm : tinnitus appears

6.20 pm : despair at 8, crying

7pm : same, still crying,  quick suicidal thoughts 

8pm : went To bed To try To relax. High tinnitus

9pm : felt particularry awake, activated. 

10.50pm : lights off. Anxiety: 4 / despair: 4

Think I might fall asleep around 11.30pm

 

 

This night : High cortisol Spikes at 12.30 and 5.30am, waking up anxious at 7 rate.

 

This morning  : woke up at 7.15 am anxious (7)

 

 

--》 i think my periods explain : belly pain/ weakness/ tiredness

--》 @Sassenach : I rreally can't tell if magnesium is working : on one hand I don't have terrors , on the other hand I expérience despair Spikes and still have the same cortisol Spikes. Do you think I should try a day without it ?

 

 

[Erell]

+ I was wondering if I should try fish oil, or is it too much?

 

If anyone as a clue 

[India]

On 10/8/2019 at 8:58 AM, Erell said:

Oh I didn't know there was a podcast! Not sure I Will be able to understand the English talkings,  but I could try !

 

So kind of you for stopping by here! Thank you! 😙

@Erell I’m sorry I can’t write more. Cognitive blocks limit my working memory; reading and writing . 

Here are podcasts :

 

https://www.madinamerica.com/2017/04/lets-talk-withdrawal-podcast/

 

I hope you can understand  something from them.

 

I wish there were more ... and in different languages too? A future project for someone. James provides a useful template for others to follow. Also, the more people report their experiences, the less professionals can say that this is a “rare” or “impossible” predicament. 

1 hour ago, Erell said:

+ I was wondering if I should try fish oil, or is it too much?

 

If anyone as a clue 

I found fish oil and magnesium to be helpful.

 

How are you today?

[Giulietta]

2 hours ago, India said:

Cognitive blocks limit my working memory; reading and writing

 

Same here. Which is why it takes forever and a day to write these messages, why I repeat myself through them, etc.

 

Glad to have the podcast.

 

6 hours ago, Erell said:

i think my periods explain : belly pain/ weakness/ tiredness

 

I haven't had a period in many years so don't know how my symptoms may apply to you. However - GI pains were absolutely terrible for me when I was getting on duloxetine - belly, flank (think your liver). I occasionally have belly pain now and think it could be WD or simply indigestion (or gas pain). Weakness and fatigue are I think general WD in my case. They come over me in waves and are then gone. 

 

I can't comment on fish oil - as I have taken it since before this nightmare began.

 

[Erell]

Hi @India !

Thank you for the podcast, i'll try To understand 

Well Today is rough in terms of anxiety and despair,  I try To keep believing and hope for a window one day!

 

Thank you for asking ! I'm sorry, I would like To write more but my mood isn't great .

 

Best wishes To you!

[India]

@Erell write when you can. Which part of France are you from?  Ou habite tu en France? 

Because you mentioned the sea. I swam off the coast near Sanary sur mer in the depths of my WD. The beauty of that sea kept me alive.

I’ve spent time in the south: Marseille, Toulon, Nice, Antibes etc, Paris and the Alps. 

[sunnysideup69]

Hello @Erell, I read that you are in a wave. Just dropping by to send a hug ((( ))) and to say, hang on in there, it will pass. It's early days for you yet, time is your friend (except I know it passes too slow sometimes.) You will get through this wave to a window again.

 

PS I have found fish oil to be helpful x

[Sassenach]

Hi Erell

 

You are having a rough time.

I am sorry it it is awful.

Did you have bad menstrual pains before W/D or they much worse now?

It is difficult to know whether your hormones are making matters worse, or if the magnesium is having any effect.

What are your thoughts?

There is no reason why you should not try fish oil but I would suggest not until your period is over for the reasons above.

You could order some to be ready.

 

Sass

[Erell]

Hi Sass!

So glad To hear from you!

 

Actually I don't have pain anymore, and I'm used To have pain the first day.

What is very hard To cope is dépression and anxiety  : tried To go outside Today but anxiety was too High! Difficult To accept you can't do things you were finally able To do again ! High anxiety back in my face... I was so happy with the improvlents last week, even if they were small !!! Now all I do is trying To survive with tears and fear.

But I know we all go through this.

 

I'm guessing I'm in a wave : last week,  I had fantastic improvments on wednesday and thursday, and since Friday I'm feeling awfull. @Sassenach :  Do you agree with my explaination ?

 

Or it's my hormones who give me such violent emotions. 

I reread my diaries, and I think magnésium could help actually : the first days with it were days with improvments. 

I'm going To order fish oil. 

 

 

I'm sorry Sass, I can't give you clear thoughts, Im a bit loss. I need a window To trust the fact that my body can heal. But I also know that nobody can tell when it Will happen. 

 

So sorry for my sadness 😓

[Cocopuffz17]

Sorry to hear you are facing a wave. Remember it has not come to stay, but it has come to pass! Costco has an excellent fish oil supplement that I have been taking for a year. It’s a Kirkland brand, 100% wild fish oil. I take 8 pills a day to get 960 DHA.... I can’t remember the measurement I’m assuming it’s measured in mg. But there are numerous Kirkland branded ones. I’ll take a picture of the one I take when I’m home if you would like. 

[Erell]

Thank you @Cocopuffz17 for your support! Yes these awful feelings make you Feel like you'll never Feel good again! But you're right, they Will pass.

 

About fish oil,  I don't know if this brand can be found in France. I've read all the thread about fish oil and wrote on a paper alto's advices. I think I've ordered a good quality. 

 

Thank you again!!!

[Giulietta]

On 10/8/2019 at 3:47 AM, Erell said:

Maybe I'll have To reconsider my job, maybe quit it and find another less stressfull. For now I wanna keep believing that I Will still be able To go To my work, it helps me To Feel hope.

 

Quite! Do believe as you will be going back to work - whether same job or different one - or perhaps fewer hours. Stressful jobs (many of my previous) make my anxiety worse - whether on an AD or not. It is part of my personal 'make up.' I know that fast-paced jobs with a lot of deadlines are terrible for me. So when I look at job posts and I see those words - I know it is probably not good for me and I don't apply.

 

On 10/8/2019 at 3:47 AM, Erell said:

Breaking news : I discovered at 9am that I have my periods! This is way too early, Im supposed To have them in one week and a half. This could explain the violency of sadness of the last few days.

And why I Feel so tired Today.

 

Your period could explain...the premenstrual sadness, despair, etc. and after it starts we become ourselves again.

 

On 10/8/2019 at 6:30 AM, mustafa said:

gridley advised me not to over analize my self, this can make us upset a little. ignore as you can; ignorance of withdrawals can make you wait more without being despaired(if you understand me). i know all of us can reaely do this, but it greatly helps

 

@mustafa yes - i try to ignore WD symptoms as much as I can. However - how do you keep your diary when you do this? If I don't document -  I don't remember and so can't post (so it helps the mods to help me.

[Sassenach]

Hi Erell

 

42 minutes ago, Erell said:

'm guessing I'm in a wave : last week,  I had fantastic improvments on wednesday and thursday, and since Friday I'm feeling awfull. @Sassenach :  Do you agree with my explaination ?

 

Or it's my hormones who give me such violent emotions. 

 

Unfortunately could be either or both.

Advise me when your period ends and if you are not improving I will ask Altostrata to assess.

There is no point in doing it now as she will want to wait.

50 minutes ago, Erell said:

I think magnésium could help actually : the first days with it were days with improvments. 

 

If you are using the method Gridley advised of dissolving in a glass and sipping I would increase to 75% of full dose tomorrow.

If you feel any ill effects don't take any more.

The tiny updose you did last time makes it difficult to know if it is working.

55 minutes ago, Erell said:

'm sorry Sass, I can't give you clear thoughts,

Don't be sorry I know how it feels🙄

 

Sass

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Erell]

Waouw Sass 

I thank you for your honest reply, and in the mean time it feels like despair ...ask Altostrata is like : I'm going To ask her because this situation is too weird..

So I Feel like I'm broken, or having an adverse réaction.

I'm tired and imagine the worse. 

 

Ok I Will increase tomorrow the magnésium. And yes I use the méthod that Gridley advised.

 

Thank you Sass.

[Sassenach]

15 minutes ago, Erell said:

thank you for your honest reply, and in the mean time it feels like despair ...ask Altostrata is like

Ask Alto is to see if she has any other ideas.

She has so much experience that the rest of us cannot match, yet👿 so we double check to see if she has suggestions to speed up recovery.

You will be fine but it will take time.

Stop panicking and start bedtime routine.

Hope you sleep better.

 

Sass

 

[mustafa]

5 hours ago, Guilietta said:

However - how do you keep your diary when you do this? If I don't document -  I don't remember and so can't post (so it helps the mods to help me.

@Guilietta In fact I have no diary, I don't write about what I feel or document them as long as they are supportable, but once I feel i have a bad symptom and can't understand it, I write it here to know what's going on. I realize it is not easy at all, and I may be able to do this ( rarely) because I had experience with withdrawals and know that however they are strange, they subside.

A very useful advice for survivors ( who tapered antidepressants) who are able to go for work or live the every day Life without problems with equilibrium or memory, is to live their life as if they were born with these withdrawals . Of course these withdrawals will subside, but doing that advice will be like if you were never put on antidepressants; I did that once and noticed the difference in my suffer so I hope to be able to do it during the period of recovery.

[Giulietta]

9 minutes ago, mustafa said:

A very useful advice for survivors ( who tapered antidepressants) who are able to go for work or live the every day Life without problems with equilibrium or memory, is to live their life as if they were born with these withdrawals .

@mustafa

Would you say that you are more or less stable (with mostly same symptoms most of the time) and that your taper went smoothly?

 

When you say 'supportable' - what do you mean?

 

I embraced your approach to WD - until I started to experience symptoms when I could not function as usual. So I now keep a log to see what symptoms may correlate to a change in dosage.

[Erell]

Well this a hard night...terror is back.

Could I be doing an adverse reaction? 

It feels like my brain is broken, and that I will never Feel better but just worse.

[Cocopuffz17]

1 hour ago, Erell said:

Well this a hard night...terror is back.

Could I be doing an adverse reaction? 

It feels like my brain is broken, and that I will never Feel better but just worse.

 

You will power through! It’s the process of healing. It sucks that it’s painful, but you got this!!! 

[Erell]

Good morning. 

 

Diary Wednesday 9 October  /  day 15 on 10mg Paroxetine 

 

7.15 am : woke up anxious (7)

8am : took 10mg Paroxetine 

9am : anxiety: 7 / despair  : 7

10am : same. Feels like the cortisol Spike doesn't decrease.

12 : anxiety : 5 / despair  : 5

1pm : anxiety : 6 / despair  : 6

1.30pm : Spike of despair (8), crying.

3pm : anxiety : 6 / despair: 6

4.20pm : Spike of despair (8).crying. It stopped around 5.10pm

5.30pm : internal tremors.  Anxiety : 6 / despair: 7

6pm : cry. Can't handle anymore. 

8pm : go To bed. Internal tremors, tinnitus. Anxiety : 7 / despair  : 6

9.30pm : I Feel agitated, unnerved, agressive. High restlessness in arms. 

10pm : anxiety : 4 / despair: 4 !!!!!!!!!!!!

11pm  lights off

 

 

 

The agressivity I felt on the evening was new and terrifying.

This night  : it was an awful night. Several times I woke up highly anxious : 1am, then 3.30 am with terror, I think I managed To fall asleep at 5am, then woke up at 6am, managed To fall asleep and woke up highly anxious at 8am.

 

 

I can't avoid myself To ask if I'm getting worse and what could this mean? It really feels like my brain can't stabilize anymore, and that I'm stuck in this nightmare. I don't Feel hope anymore. Can't stop thinking about wednesday and thursday a week ago when I felt so hopeful!

Or this is an awful wave which Will eventually be followed with a window. 

 

[Sassenach]

Hi Erell

 

Did you increase magnesium today?

Have you felt any better?

 

Sass

[Rhiannon]

10 hours ago, Erell said:

 

 

I can't avoid myself To ask if I'm getting worse and what could this mean? It really feels like my brain can't stabilize anymore, and that I'm stuck in this nightmare. I don't Feel hope anymore. Can't stop thinking about wednesday and thursday a week ago when I felt so hopeful!

Or this is an awful wave which Will eventually be followed with a window. 

 

 

Hello Erell--

 

I remember when I was actively in withdrawal, I would feel so bad and it would seem to me that I had never felt good and I was never going to feel good again. It was as if the withdrawal itself made it impossible for me to remember or believe that there is hope. This happened so many times that I now consider it another withdrawal symptom:  the inability to believe that things will get better, and to remember that things have been better before.

 

So feeling the way you are feeling is very normal and typical for withdrawal.

 

You are still very early in this process. The symptoms you are experiencing are, unfortunately, normal at this point. You are not stuck. You are having the normal windows and waves pattern of recovery. You are having the normal cortisol spike issues. Everything you describe sounds normal to me. Not good, not happy, but normal for the stage of the process that you are in.

 

 

It is a bumpy ride, especially during these early months. You are going to have better days. You are going to have more bad days too. But overall, you will gradually have more better days, and your bad days will gradually improve as well. Eventually you will stabilize and you will start feeling much better than you are feeling now.

 

You are doing everything right. I'm so sorry that you're suffering. Just hang on, hang on for the ride. You are doing fine and you are going to come out of this and have a lovely life.

 

--Rhiannon

[Erell]

Hi dear Sass!

 

Actually, I decreased magnesium and took the quarter of a spoon that I was taking last week. I don't know how To explain but I was feeling that it was the right thing To do. You know Sass, even a quarter of a spoon is much more than the recommended dose here. I think I must be around 600mg (as a coffee spoon is 2500mg of my magnésium powder).

 

Today has been challenging : first because of the awful night, then because my father and my little brother came To visit me.

 

I expérienced High anxiety and restlessness Today, but despair was lower. I did'nt cry.

 

I  also tried To cope my fear of something going wrong : according To this board and all thé cases, it seems that an adverse réaction happen when you start taking a med.  So, I think I'm not having an adverse réaction: it sounds like a pretty bad wave, added with hormones. 

What do you think about adverse réaction?

 

I'm not okay, but I Feel a bit better. At least this evening I'm able To Feel hope again, and it feels Nice

 

Hope you're not overwhelmed by all you do here. I'm so grateful for your wisdom! 

[Erell]

21 minutes ago, Rhiannon said:

This happened so many times that I now consider it another withdrawal symptom:  the inability to believe that things will get better, and to remember that things have been better before.

 

So feeling the way you are feeling is very normal and typical for withdrawal.

 

You are still very early in this process. The symptoms you are experiencing are, unfortunately, normal at this point. You are not stuck. You are having the normal windows and waves pattern of recovery. You are having the normal cortisol spike issues. Everything you describe sounds normal to me. Not good, not happy, but normal for the stage of the process that you are in.

 

 

It is a bumpy ride, especially during these early months. You are going to have better days. You are going to have more bad days too. But overall, you will gradually have more better days, and your bad days will gradually improve as well. Eventually you will stabilize and you will start feeling much better than you are feeling now.

 

You are doing everything right. I'm so sorry that you're suffering. Just hang on, hang on for the ride. You are doing fine and you are going to come out of this and have a lovely life.

 

--Rhiannon

 

Dear Rhi 

 

You're so right! Reading you make me realize This is a symptom too : To be totally unable To imagine you Will Feel better, the feeling of Being stuck forever.

I Will have To try To remember this when despair is too High. 

 

you can't imagine how it relieves me To read you thinking all of this is normal. I was totally stuck in the idea that something was going terribly wrong, maybe an adverse réaction, ...and then that I was going to stay forever in this state!

it is terrible, but if it is normal, then I can Feel hope. Thank you for  ❤

 

The past few days, I was almost convinced that my WD symptoms were worse than what people can expérience here, that nobody here could understand because my situation was the worst. I know it sounds selfish,  but I really had this feeling.

I think it could be another symptom too hein ?

 

Thank you Rhi for stopping by, and thank you Sass for your permanent and patient support 💓

[Sassenach]

You should listen to your body and I am glad you did.

First time you have mentioned your brother, I have two both younger.

26 minutes ago, Erell said:

So, I think I'm not having an adverse réaction: it sounds like a pretty bad wave, added with hormones.

You were already on the drug so an adverse reaction is not the issue here.

As Rhi said very eloquently above, W/D is brutal and we totally loose our sense of perspective.

It will get better, just wish I could tell you when. If I could I would be millionaire😎

Have a calm evening, phone off, bath and relax into sleep.

 

Sass

 

[Erell]

Actually Sass I have 2 brothers: the younger one, and one older than me.

It was nice To see him! He is a very quiet person. And a pure scientist  ( phd in fundamental physics 🙃) so I send him a lot of links from here To help him understand. Don't know if he Will read!

 

Haha, yes you would definitely earn so much money if it was predictible!!! I must confess I would be the first one To pay To know when I Will have a window !!!!😳😄

 

Good evening dear Sass, take care of you!!!

[Giulietta]

Hello dear Erell,

 

I see you sent me a message - which I will respond to - but first I wanted to comment on your posts.

 

@Rhiannon captured everything as my experience was too - and not just mine - but others on the site from what I read.

1 hour ago, Rhiannon said:

It is a bumpy ride, especially during these early months.

 

The first few months I had were miserable. I had your symptoms and additional ones - not so long ago (earlier this year). I feel so awful for you and wish I was there in person to give you a hug and comfort you.

 

1 hour ago, Rhiannon said:

I would feel so bad and it would seem to me that I had never felt good and I was never going to feel good again.

 

I did feel this way - and wondered whether  I ever going to be my old self again. I felt this way for months. It gradually improved. I feel your anguish because mine was just yesterday. I am so sorry you are going through this.

 

 @Rhiannon  said this beautifully. You are doing things right. You take good care of yourself,  follow the advice of the mods - and remain steadfast in your goal. Envision yourself being free from paxil and the WD symptoms.  

 

Big hugs, 💗

Giuilietta

 

 

 

 

[Erell]

Good morning. 

 

Diary Thursday  10 October / day 16 on 10mg Paroxetine 

 

8am : woke up anxious (7) + 10mg Paroxetine 

8am To 11.30am : anxiety (7) / despair  : 6. Quick internal tremors. 

11.30 am : my dad and my little brother arrived. All noon : lot of restlessness, impatience + anxiety

2.30 pm : restlessness: 7/8

anxiety : 6 / despair  : 6.

Feel the urge To do something, but don't know what. 

4pm : anxiety : 5 / despair: 5

restlessness: 6 / tinnitus.

6pm : internal tremors.  Anxiety : 6/ despair: 6 / restlessness: 6.

8.30pm : à friend surprised me and came To my flat. We talked until I went to bed at 10.30pm. It messed up my bedtime routine but it was nice To see her!

11pm  : lights off. Feeling restlessness. I think I managed To fall asleep between 11.30pm and midnight.

 

this night : I woke up anxious 2 times but tried To not look at the hours on my Phone. Anxious night, but it feels bit better than the previous one.

 

This morning: my friends, it looks like I've run a marathon again 😉 legs are painfull (but it's ok, I prefer my physical symptoms To my psychological ones).

I woke up anxious at 6.30am. Anxiety is at 7.

 

 

---》 I notice that I always have internal tremors around 6pm.

--》 still in a wave, still trying To learn surfing.

[India]

On 10/9/2019 at 4:32 PM, Erell said:

Whouah it seems you've seen a lot in France! How long have you lived in France?

I live in Brittany, it is where I was born.

I also lived in the Alps, near To Briançon. Where were you?

 

Hello Erell, I live in London but visited France quite a bit. Skiing with my family in various french resorts like Courchevel. Also Valley Verdon. Spent time in Cannes. Had different connections over the years. Last year I was on holiday with my mum near Toulon, “Ile de Gaot”.. so stunning.

 

Bretagne looks  so stunning. I’d love to go.

 

Use the sea for your healing. It is a magical thing..

[Giulietta]

Good day, dear Erell

 

I'm looking at the positives on your log - and the symptoms I've had that will go away....so feeling very hopeful for you but sad you have to deal with this now.

 

Wonderful that your father and brother are visiting. I know you worry about your  sadness - but it seems that your father may be realizing that you need him more than he is upset to see you suffer.   You are so fortunate to have a loving family.

 

A friend stopped by last night! Even though your sleep prepration was disturbed by a late night visit - to have a friend stop by to visit and be thinking of you is - is wonderful. Maybe she can come over earlier next time if she knows you have to have quiet evenings. Did you tell her you need to relax before bed to help with sleep?

7 hours ago, Erell said:

legs are painfull (but it's ok, I prefer my physical symptoms To my psychological ones).

 

Yup. Physical symptoms are better than the internal tremors - which will lessen over time and finally go away. 😀They are REALLY unpleasant I know.  Tinnitis is something that will go away. When it flares up - we can only ignore it or have other noise (TV, radio). I find that helped enormously.  It lessens over time until it goes away more and more.

 

💓

 

 

 

 

[mustafa]

On 10/10/2019 at 2:04 AM, Guilietta said:

@mustafa

Would you say that you are more or less stable (with mostly same symptoms most of the time) and that your taper went smoothly?

 

When you say 'supportable' - what do you mean?

 

I embraced your approach to WD - until I started to experience symptoms when I could not function as usual. So I now keep a log to see what symptoms may correlate to a change in dosage.

Hello gulietta, iam very sorry for missing your quotation. For my taper, it was very rapid , I did it in one day😧, I do never advise you to make like me. If I understand you, then yes I have symptomts and iam up and down with them( they started very very severe). I don't suffer new symptomts( despair, depression and anxiety are common symptomts between all survivors). My advice in my reply to erell was to you, I remember that I read for you that you are searching for a work, this would greatly help( as I know), so I tried to encourage you. For me I can't go for work now because I have some problems with equilibrium😔. 

I think you are right for having a log but if you think your day was ok, don't give attention to it, this was my advice. IAM sorry for my bad english, I hope I could write in words what I wanted to say.

[Giulietta]

Hello @mustafa

 

thank yo for your reply and sorry you are having trouble with equilibrium so are taking a break from work.

 

I agree that work is good if one is able - for a few months I was disabled and mostly could not have worked. As I improved - it would be nice. It has been complicated by newly emerging symptoms an dtime I spend trying to find solutions to this wD.

 

LIke you - I came off my drug almost overnight. It was meant to be a taper. MD and pharmacy messed up with the prescription (mostly pharmacy) - MD had meant this to be a taper - and I have been paying ever since last December.

 

Your English is very good. I find keeping logs is helpful.

 

 

[Sassenach]

Hi Erell

 

Comment ca va aujourdhui?

 

Sass