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Erell: struggling with paroxetine

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Guilietta
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3 hours ago, Erell said:

I think it is too soon for me : the violency of my despair makes me cry everywhere (even at grocery Today...). And I still expérience High Spike of anxiety when I'm too far from my flat..

 

Hello dear Erell,

 

The phobia / anxiety about leaving your flat is unnerving (no pun intended ;) ).  I find I do better if I have a fixed desgination, purpose - know who I am going to see, when, etc. I minimize the 'risk' / anxiety by planning my trip. After my first CT - I was house bound for a while and I did have a lot of panic. I did not know what on earth happened to me - and why couldn't I drive 10 minutes to the grocery store? On those days I could not have driven to work. I understand. 

 

I worked part-time from home for 2 years - it was just 8-10 hours a week and hours were flexible so if I wasn't feeling well I could work other hours. Is there something like that which you could do? Even if it is a job that doesn't have the challenge of your leadership/travel job - it give you some structure and distration.  I found the hours I worked I looked forward to. I focused on only my work and I got a modest pay check, too. 😊

 

3 hours ago, Erell said:

I can't imagine myself leading anything right now

 

I can't lead anything at my best. 😂

 

When you are feeling better - I hope you visit your parents. I needed my family. Even when I felt really bad - and I didn't want others to see me - I just went into my room, closed the door, watched TV, took a nap, or like you cried. :)

 

It is nice to have a friend in France.

 

Sleep well,

 

Giuilietta

 

Edited by Guilietta
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India

Hello @Erell, you are in the right place. Many of us are feeling the fear, but others are further along able to offer hope and suggestions on a physical, practical, psychological and spiritual plane.

When I feel fear I read over and over and over the Success Stories. Also listen to the “let’s talk withdrawal” podcasts of others who have come out the other side of this.

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Erell
10 hours ago, Erell said:

You mean that the holding on 10mg is not  working ????

@Sassenach : I panicked..But now I understand your were talking about magnesium  😳

 

Diary Monday 7th October / day 13 on 10mg Paroxetine / day 7 with magnésium  (increased this day)

 

7.15am : woke up anxious (7) 

8am : 10mg Paroxetine 

9.30am Spike of despair (8).

10am : felt really tired, but don't want To take a 'toxic nap

10.30 am Spike of despair (8) : want To crybut can't. 

11.30 am short walk outside. Anxiety (6) / despair (7)

12.20 Spike of despair (9). Quick suicidal thought. Crying.

1pm : internal tremors

1.20pm : Spike of despair (9). Can't stop Crying. Not suicidal but don't know how I Will be able To get through this. Full of doubts. 

This Spike is going To last 1hour.

2.30pm : went outside To walk.

3.30pm back home. Anxiety : 5 / despair: 7

4pm restlessness in legs and arms

4.20pm : Spike of despair, crying

5pm anxiety : 5 / despair  : 7

5.30pm internal tremors during an hour

7pm : headache. Anxiety  : 5 / despair:6

8pm To 9pm : in the waiting room To see a doctor To be off work 

9.30pm : in bed. Headache. Anxiety: 4 / despair: 5

10.30pm lights of

 

This night I Feel like I slept better. Fell asleep around 11pm and woke up anxious at 4 am. Managed To fell asleep again and woke up at 6am feeling totally awake. Anxiety was at 6.

 

Now feeling some pain in all my muscles like if all my body had run a marathon. But it is totally tolerable. 

I also Feel bellypain : I'll see Today if it lasts, could be related To magnesium. 

 

 

Sorry, maybe my diaries are too long. I'll try To make them shorter!

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Cocopuffz17
14 minutes ago, Erell said:

@Sassenach : I panicked..But now I understand your were talking about magnesium  😳

 

Diary Monday 7th October / day 13 on 10mg Paroxetine / day 7 with magnésium  (increased this day)

 

7.15am : woke up anxious (7) 

8am : 10mg Paroxetine 

9.30am Spike of despair (8).

10am : felt really tired, but don't want To take a 'toxic nap

10.30 am Spike of despair (8) : want To crybut can't. 

11.30 am short walk outside. Anxiety (6) / despair (7)

12.20 Spike of despair (9). Quick suicidal thought. Crying.

1pm : internal tremors

1.20pm : Spike of despair (9). Can't stop Crying. Not suicidal but don't know how I Will be able To get through this. Full of doubts. 

This Spike is going To last 1hour.

2.30pm : went outside To walk.

3.30pm back home. Anxiety : 5 / despair: 7

4pm restlessness in legs and arms

4.20pm : Spike of despair, crying

5pm anxiety : 5 / despair  : 7

5.30pm internal tremors during an hour

7pm : headache. Anxiety  : 5 / despair:6

8pm To 9pm : in the waiting room To see a doctor To be off work 

9.30pm : in bed. Headache. Anxiety: 4 / despair: 5

10.30pm lights of

 

This night I Feel like I slept better. Fell asleep around 11pm and woke up anxious at 4 am. Managed To fell asleep again and woke up at 6am feeling totally awake. Anxiety was at 6.

 

Now feeling some pain in all my muscles like if all my body had run a marathon. But it is totally tolerable. 

I also Feel bellypain : I'll see Today if it lasts, could be related To magnesium. 

 

 

Sorry, maybe my diaries are too long. I'll try To make them shorter!

 

Hey, things will get better. Did you cry when you were on 20 mg, like in day to day life? 

Ive been crying and I love it because it’s a clear sign my emotions are not being numbed anymore. When I was on.20mg I only cried 3 times in 11 years. I remember every time. 

 

No need to apologize for your log. It’s great to have good detail. You will look back one day and be like I can’t believe I was there. That you got past it and are capable of anything! 

 

Each day that passes is one more day closer to being healed! 

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Erell

Hi @Cocopuffz17 !

Actually I don't remember if I cried on 20mg. I think I did. But it is certain that I was feeling kind of numbness, acting like a robot thinking it was the real me...then I tappered benzos, and even if it has been a very hard journey, I slowly found again my capacity To Feel émotions. That is exactly why i'll never touch a benzo again ;)

 

On one hand it is good To be able To cry, on the other hand dépression really is a rough symptom 😉

I'm happy To read that you find yourself able To Feel again emotions!!! 😙

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sunnysideup69

Hello @Erell, coming over to wave at you and say, you are so positive and uplifting, thank you.

 

How are you doing? I'm in London and it's a cloudy morning here. Going out for a gentle run. After my 'crash' in mood on Sunday/Monday, feeling a bit better this morning. These weird moods come and go.

 

Sending sunshine xxx

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Erell

Hi @sunnysideup69 !

 

So kind of you stopping by here! Thank you!

I find it kind of funny that you talk about me Being positive while all I do is complaining and talk about despair these days 😄 but it feels Nice: if you think I'm positive, it means that I stay strong ! Thank you!

 

Cloudy morning here too in Brittany. So happy To read you're feeling a bit better! And you are able To run 😀 this is huge! 

 

Lot of sunshine for you too !

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Erell

Sweet  @Guilietta,

It feels Nice for me To have such a strong and positive friend  😙

 

Maybe I'll have To reconsider my job, maybe quit it and find another less stressfull. For now I wanna keep believing that I Will still be able To go To my work, it helps me To Feel hope.

We'll see what the future Will be :)

 

Breaking news : I discovered at 9am that I have my periods! This is way too early, Im supposed To have them in one week and a half. This could explain the violency of sadness of the last few days.

And why I Feel so tired Today.

At least, this explanation reassure me 😉

During this dose 's hold I'm gonna have To observe my cycle To see if there is a pattern.

Do you do this? 

 

Hope you're currently sleeping Well 😙

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Erell
9 hours ago, India said:

Also listen to the “let’s talk withdrawal” podcasts of others who have come out the other side of this.

Oh I didn't know there was a podcast! Not sure I Will be able to understand the English talkings,  but I could try !

 

So kind of you for stopping by here! Thank you! 😙

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mustafa

@Erell hello erell, how are you today? i hope you are ok.

when i came to this site, gridley advised me not to over analize my self, this can make us upset a little. ignore as you can; ignorance of withdrawals can make you wait more without being despaired(if you understand me). i know all of us can reaely do this, but it greatly helps  negative emotions and that made me try , so do you

have a good day, erell

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Erell

Hi all !

I have a question : the 3 past days were extremely difficult in terms of despair, and had also High anxiety. This morning I woke up with my periods. Today, I Feel in general much less despair, still High anxiety. So :

- am I in a window ? Find it weird because I still have High anxiety.

 

- am I in a wave and symptoms change? Find it weird because it means I'm in a wave since 1 month, but symptoms change.

 

- are am I healing gradually and the wave of despair happened because of my periods ?

 

- or am I experiencing waves and Windows in really short time? Like minutes or hours.

 

I hope my interrogations are understandable. 

Maybe no one can answer To that, especially when you're not in somebody's Shoes. Not an emergency either,  just trying To understand the best the process and my situation. I've reread my diaries ,but find difficult To observe a pattern or any régularity. Don't know where I am in the process. I Would be highly interested by points of views.

 

Best wishes To all of you!!!

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Sassenach

Hi Erell

 

Did not know how many mods so counted today, 22.

1 to 5 online at any one time depending on time of day and time zone.

2 hours ago, Erell said:

To observe a pattern

The only pattern is "there is no pattern ".

 

2 hours ago, Erell said:

This morning I woke up with my periods.

pms-pmdd-and-menstrual-cycle-issues-during-withdrawal-and-after/

2 hours ago, Erell said:

Feel in general much less despair, still High anxiety. So :

- am I in a window ? Find it weird because I still have High anxiety.

It may be a brief window but more likely the magnesium is having a calming effect.

Will be interesting to see how you feel tomorrow.

 

Sass

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Erell

I opened my mouth too quickly : despair has hit me back this afternoon and now I can't stop crying, hopeless.  Such a rollercoaster! This is so hard. 

 

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Erell

Good morning. 

 

Diary day 14 on 10mg Paroxetine  / tuesday 8 October / 

 

6am woke up anxious (6) / belly and muscles aches

8am 10mg Paroxetine / feal weak and tired

10am : anxiety : 5 / despair: 6

11am : anxiety at 7

12 : anxiety: 5 / despair: 5

1pm : despair at 7

2pm took a shower . Anxiety: 5 / despair: 4

2.45 pm went To see the sea

3.30pm went back home because of anxiety 

4.30 pm : Spike of despair (8), can't stop crying, quick suicidal thoughts. 

5.30pm : despair decreased at 6. Anxiety: 5

6pm : tinnitus appears

6.20 pm : despair at 8, crying

7pm : same, still crying,  quick suicidal thoughts 

8pm went To bed To try To relax. High tinnitus

9pm : felt particularry awake, activated. 

10.50pm lights off. Anxiety: 4 / despair: 4

Think I might fall asleep around 11.30pm

 

 

This night : High cortisol Spikes at 12.30 and 5.30am, waking up anxious at 7 rate.

 

This morning  : woke up at 7.15 am anxious (7)

 

 

--》 i think my periods explain : belly pain/ weakness/ tiredness

--》 @Sassenach : I rreally can't tell if magnesium is working : on one hand I don't have terrors , on the other hand I expérience despair Spikes and still have the same cortisol Spikes. Do you think I should try a day without it ?

 

 

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Erell

+ I was wondering if I should try fish oil, or is it too much?

 

If anyone as a clue  :)

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India
On 10/8/2019 at 8:58 AM, Erell said:

Oh I didn't know there was a podcast! Not sure I Will be able to understand the English talkings,  but I could try !

 

So kind of you for stopping by here! Thank you! 😙

@Erell I’m sorry I can’t write more. Cognitive blocks limit my working memory; reading and writing . 

Here are podcasts :

 

https://www.madinamerica.com/2017/04/lets-talk-withdrawal-podcast/

 

I hope you can understand  something from them.

 

I wish there were more ... and in different languages too? A future project for someone. James provides a useful template for others to follow. Also, the more people report their experiences, the less professionals can say that this is a “rare” or “impossible” predicament. 

1 hour ago, Erell said:

+ I was wondering if I should try fish oil, or is it too much?

 

If anyone as a clue  :)

I found fish oil and magnesium to be helpful.

 

How are you today?

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Guilietta
2 hours ago, India said:

Cognitive blocks limit my working memory; reading and writing

 

Same here. Which is why it takes forever and a day to write these messages, why I repeat myself through them, etc.

 

Glad to have the podcast.

 

6 hours ago, Erell said:

i think my periods explain : belly pain/ weakness/ tiredness

 

I haven't had a period in many years so don't know how my symptoms may apply to you. However - GI pains were absolutely terrible for me when I was getting on duloxetine - belly, flank (think your liver). I occasionally have belly pain now and think it could be WD or simply indigestion (or gas pain). Weakness and fatigue are I think general WD in my case. They come over me in waves and are then gone. 

 

I can't comment on fish oil - as I have taken it since before this nightmare began.

 

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Erell

Hi @India !

Thank you for the podcast, i'll try To understand  ;)

Well Today is rough in terms of anxiety and despair,  I try To keep believing and hope for a window one day!

 

Thank you for asking ! I'm sorry, I would like To write more but my mood isn't great .

 

Best wishes To you!

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India

@Erell write when you can. Which part of France are you from?  Ou habite tu en France? 

Because you mentioned the sea. I swam off the coast near Sanary sur mer in the depths of my WD. The beauty of that sea kept me alive.

I’ve spent time in the south: Marseille, Toulon, Nice, Antibes etc, Paris and the Alps. 

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Erell

Thank you for your understanding @India ! I think I'm in a wave (not sure because Im bad since a month now ) since Friday with no relief, and sometimes it's really hard To cope! Feeling bad To come here only To report negative feelings.

 

Whouah it seems you've seen a lot in France! How long have you lived in France?

I live in Brittany, it is where I was born.

I also lived in the Alps, near To Briançon. Where were you?

 

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sunnysideup69

Hello @Erell, I read that you are in a wave. Just dropping by to send a hug ((( ))) and to say, hang on in there, it will pass. It's early days for you yet, time is your friend (except I know it passes too slow sometimes.) You will get through this wave to a window again.:)

 

PS I have found fish oil to be helpful x

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Sassenach

Hi Erell

 

You are having a rough time.

I am sorry it it is awful.

Did you have bad menstrual pains before W/D or they much worse now?

It is difficult to know whether your hormones are making matters worse, or if the magnesium is having any effect.

What are your thoughts?

There is no reason why you should not try fish oil but I would suggest not until your period is over for the reasons above.

You could order some to be ready.

 

Sass

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Erell

Hi Sass!

So glad To hear from you!

 

Actually I don't have pain anymore, and I'm used To have pain the first day.

What is very hard To cope is dépression and anxiety  : tried To go outside Today but anxiety was too High! Difficult To accept you can't do things you were finally able To do again ! High anxiety back in my face... I was so happy with the improvlents last week, even if they were small !!! Now all I do is trying To survive with tears and fear.

But I know we all go through this.

 

I'm guessing I'm in a wave : last week,  I had fantastic improvments on wednesday and thursday, and since Friday I'm feeling awfull. @Sassenach  Do you agree with my explaination ?

 

Or it's my hormones who give me such violent emotions. 

I reread my diaries, and I think magnésium could help actually : the first days with it were days with improvments. 

I'm going To order fish oil. 

 

 

I'm sorry Sass, I can't give you clear thoughts, Im a bit loss. I need a window To trust the fact that my body can heal. But I also know that nobody can tell when it Will happen. 

 

So sorry for my sadness 😓

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Cocopuffz17

Sorry to hear you are facing a wave. Remember it has not come to stay, but it has come to pass! Costco has an excellent fish oil supplement that I have been taking for a year. It’s a Kirkland brand, 100% wild fish oil. I take 8 pills a day to get 960 DHA.... I can’t remember the measurement I’m assuming it’s measured in mg. But there are numerous Kirkland branded ones. I’ll take a picture of the one I take when I’m home if you would like. 

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Erell

Thank you @Cocopuffz17 for your support! Yes these awful feelings make you Feel like you'll never Feel good again! But you're right, they Will pass.

 

About fish oil,  I don't know if this brand can be found in France. I've read all the thread about fish oil and wrote on a paper alto's advices. I think I've ordered a good quality. 

 

Thank you again!!!

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Guilietta
On 10/8/2019 at 3:47 AM, Erell said:

Maybe I'll have To reconsider my job, maybe quit it and find another less stressfull. For now I wanna keep believing that I Will still be able To go To my work, it helps me To Feel hope.

 

Quite! Do believe as you will be going back to work - whether same job or different one - or perhaps fewer hours. Stressful jobs (many of my previous) make my anxiety worse - whether on an AD or not. It is part of my personal 'make up.' I know that fast-paced jobs with a lot of deadlines are terrible for me. So when I look at job posts and I see those words - I know it is probably not good for me and I don't apply. ;)

 

On 10/8/2019 at 3:47 AM, Erell said:

Breaking news : I discovered at 9am that I have my periods! This is way too early, Im supposed To have them in one week and a half. This could explain the violency of sadness of the last few days.

And why I Feel so tired Today.

 

Your period could explain...the premenstrual sadness, despair, etc. and after it starts we become ourselves again. ;)

 

On 10/8/2019 at 6:30 AM, mustafa said:

gridley advised me not to over analize my self, this can make us upset a little. ignore as you can; ignorance of withdrawals can make you wait more without being despaired(if you understand me). i know all of us can reaely do this, but it greatly helps

 

@mustafa yes - i try to ignore WD symptoms as much as I can. However - how do you keep your diary when you do this? If I don't document -  I don't remember and so can't post (so it helps the mods to help me.

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Sassenach

Hi Erell

 

42 minutes ago, Erell said:

'm guessing I'm in a wave : last week,  I had fantastic improvments on wednesday and thursday, and since Friday I'm feeling awfull. @Sassenach  Do you agree with my explaination ?

 

Or it's my hormones who give me such violent emotions. 

 

Unfortunately could be either or both.

Advise me when your period ends and if you are not improving I will ask Altostrata to assess.

There is no point in doing it now as she will want to wait.

50 minutes ago, Erell said:

I think magnésium could help actually : the first days with it were days with improvments. 

 

If you are using the method Gridley advised of dissolving in a glass and sipping I would increase to 75% of full dose tomorrow.

If you feel any ill effects don't take any more.

The tiny updose you did last time makes it difficult to know if it is working.

55 minutes ago, Erell said:

'm sorry Sass, I can't give you clear thoughts,

Don't be sorry I know how it feels🙄

 

Sass

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Erell

Waouw Sass 

I thank you for your honest reply, and in the mean time it feels like despair ...ask Altostrata is like : I'm going To ask her because this situation is too weird..

So I Feel like I'm broken, or having an adverse réaction.

I'm tired and imagine the worse. 

 

Ok I Will increase tomorrow the magnésium. And yes I use the méthod that Gridley advised.

 

Thank you Sass.

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Sassenach
15 minutes ago, Erell said:

thank you for your honest reply, and in the mean time it feels like despair ...ask Altostrata is like

Ask Alto is to see if she has any other ideas.

She has so much experience that the rest of us cannot match, yet👿 so we double check to see if she has suggestions to speed up recovery.

You will be fine but it will take time.

Stop panicking and start bedtime routine.

Hope you sleep better.

 

Sass

 

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mustafa
5 hours ago, Guilietta said:

However - how do you keep your diary when you do this? If I don't document -  I don't remember and so can't post (so it helps the mods to help me.

@Guilietta In fact I have no diary, I don't write about what I feel or document them as long as they are supportable, but once I feel i have a bad symptom and can't understand it, I write it here to know what's going on. I realize it is not easy at all, and I may be able to do this ( rarely) because I had experience with withdrawals and know that however they are strange, they subside.

A very useful advice for survivors ( who tapered antidepressants) who are able to go for work or live the every day Life without problems with equilibrium or memory, is to live their life as if they were born with these withdrawals . Of course these withdrawals will subside, but doing that advice will be like if you were never put on antidepressants; I did that once and noticed the difference in my suffer so I hope to be able to do it during the period of recovery.

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Guilietta
9 minutes ago, mustafa said:

A very useful advice for survivors ( who tapered antidepressants) who are able to go for work or live the every day Life without problems with equilibrium or memory, is to live their life as if they were born with these withdrawals .

@mustafa

Would you say that you are more or less stable (with mostly same symptoms most of the time) and that your taper went smoothly?

 

When you say 'supportable' - what do you mean?

 

I embraced your approach to WD - until I started to experience symptoms when I could not function as usual. So I now keep a log to see what symptoms may correlate to a change in dosage.

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Erell

Well this a hard night...terror is back.

Could I be doing an adverse reaction? 

It feels like my brain is broken, and that I will never Feel better but just worse.

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Cocopuffz17
1 hour ago, Erell said:

Well this a hard night...terror is back.

Could I be doing an adverse reaction? 

It feels like my brain is broken, and that I will never Feel better but just worse.

 

You will power through! It’s the process of healing. It sucks that it’s painful, but you got this!!! 

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Erell

Good morning. 

 

Diary Wednesday 9 October  /  day 15 on 10mg Paroxetine 

 

7.15 am woke up anxious (7)

8am : took 10mg Paroxetine 

9am : anxiety: 7 / despair  : 7

10am : same. Feels like the cortisol Spike doesn't decrease.

12 : anxiety : 5 / despair  : 5

1pm : anxiety : 6 / despair  : 6

1.30pm Spike of despair (8), crying.

3pm : anxiety : 6 / despair: 6

4.20pm : Spike of despair (8).crying. It stopped around 5.10pm

5.30pm internal tremors.  Anxiety : 6 / despair: 7

6pm : cry. Can't handle anymore. 

8pm : go To bed. Internal tremors, tinnitus. Anxiety : 7 / despair  : 6

9.30pm : I Feel agitated, unnerved, agressive. High restlessness in arms. 

10pm : anxiety : 4 / despair: 4 !!!!!!!!!!!!

11pm  lights off

 

 

 

The agressivity I felt on the evening was new and terrifying.

This night  : it was an awful night. Several times I woke up highly anxious : 1am, then 3.30 am with terror, I think I managed To fall asleep at 5am, then woke up at 6am, managed To fall asleep and woke up highly anxious at 8am.

 

 

I can't avoid myself To ask if I'm getting worse and what could this mean? It really feels like my brain can't stabilize anymore, and that I'm stuck in this nightmare. I don't Feel hope anymore. Can't stop thinking about wednesday and thursday a week ago when I felt so hopeful!

Or this is an awful wave which Will eventually be followed with a window. 

 

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Sassenach

Hi Erell

 

Did you increase magnesium today?

Have you felt any better?

 

Sass

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Rhiannon
10 hours ago, Erell said:

 

 

I can't avoid myself To ask if I'm getting worse and what could this mean? It really feels like my brain can't stabilize anymore, and that I'm stuck in this nightmare. I don't Feel hope anymore. Can't stop thinking about wednesday and thursday a week ago when I felt so hopeful!

Or this is an awful wave which Will eventually be followed with a window. 

 

 

Hello Erell--

 

I remember when I was actively in withdrawal, I would feel so bad and it would seem to me that I had never felt good and I was never going to feel good again. It was as if the withdrawal itself made it impossible for me to remember or believe that there is hope. This happened so many times that I now consider it another withdrawal symptom:  the inability to believe that things will get better, and to remember that things have been better before.

 

So feeling the way you are feeling is very normal and typical for withdrawal.

 

You are still very early in this process. The symptoms you are experiencing are, unfortunately, normal at this point. You are not stuck. You are having the normal windows and waves pattern of recovery. You are having the normal cortisol spike issues. Everything you describe sounds normal to me. Not good, not happy, but normal for the stage of the process that you are in.

 

 

It is a bumpy ride, especially during these early months. You are going to have better days. You are going to have more bad days too. But overall, you will gradually have more better days, and your bad days will gradually improve as well. Eventually you will stabilize and you will start feeling much better than you are feeling now.

 

You are doing everything right. I'm so sorry that you're suffering. Just hang on, hang on for the ride. You are doing fine and you are going to come out of this and have a lovely life.

 

--Rhiannon

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