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sunnysideup69: what can I do to stabilise on venlafaxine

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sunnysideup69
28 minutes ago, Songbird said:

Life events, such as work stress, can also have a significant effect.

 

Yeah, I think maybe I'm just a bit overtired and stressed, and not sleeping properly. I need to learn some coping techniques, I think, so that my moods don't control my day.

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sunnysideup69

Also, when I'm in a wave such as now, I notice along with the anxiety, I have lots of muscular random twitches as well as the general kind of shivering feeling. It's very weird. It's almost as if I'm in withdrawal, but I'm not WDing, I'm holding.

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Gridley
On 5/21/2019 at 8:28 AM, Ruthmcg said:

as if I'm in withdrawal, but I'm not WDing, I'm holding

 

I know you've been holding a long time, but there are still going to be withdrawal symptoms in a hold.  The withdrawal symptoms you mention are typical.  It's when you've stabilized, which mean a steady state of feeling blah (which doesn't mean symptom-free but tolerable with no wide swings in symptoms) that you're ready to start the taper again.  

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sunnysideup69
1 hour ago, Gridley said:

 

I know you've been holding a long time, but there are still going to be withdrawal symptoms in a hold.  The withdrawal symptoms you mention are typical.  It's when you've stabilized, which mean a steady state of feeling blah (which doesn't mean symptom-free but tolerable with no wide swings in symptoms) that you're ready to start the taper again.  

 

Ah okay. I'm still having withdrawal symptoms, even though I updosed to 10mg back in August. I think that's the bit that has been hard to understand ie that waves are not just when you are technically tapering. They also occur in circumstances such as mine ie trying to stabilise on a reinstatement. I've got you. 

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sunnysideup69
18 hours ago, Songbird said:

Life events, such as work stress, can also have a significant effect.

 

Yep. I'm realising how off balance I still am by my reactions to things that wouldn't really have bothered me before.

 

In fact, I noticed this time last year (before I updosed) that I was over reacting to little things. I had been holding at 2.5mg of cit for about a year at that point. I didn't realise at the time that I was having a delayed withdrawal response, it didn't really hit me until the beginning of that year.

Hindsight is a useful thing...at least I know what to expect now.

 

I have woken up feeling a lot calmer today. The last 48 hours, had a really intense wave of anxiety. One thing I've noticed as I've gone along is that I've had a wave pretty much every month since reinstating, and it has lasted about a week. In April, that changed a bit. I've had shorter waves, they don't last as long.Maybe a couple of days, quite intense but then they go again.

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sunnysideup69

Dear mods or anyone else reading this, I'm wondering if you can post me some links about things I can do for self soothing/ self regulation. This is where I really fall down, I've depended on the drugs so long to do this for me, and whilst I'm still trying to stabilise and pre tapering, I need to start practising.

 

I do have a meditation practice but it's very on and off. I run twice a week and do some strength training, but nothing too strenuous. I'm thinking about perhaps starting up with some gentle Hatha Yoga, I've heard it's very calming to the system. I have acupuncture about once a month, sometimes a longer gap. I'm asking her to do soothing, relaxing treatments now...

 

I keep seeing good tips on here but forgetting where I've seen them. Much obliged,

Ruth.

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Songbird
On 5/23/2019 at 11:18 AM, Ruthmcg said:

Dear mods or anyone else reading this, I'm wondering if you can post me some links about things I can do for self soothing/ self regulation.

 

Here's our general topic - lots of links to other topics in here:

Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms

 

And my favourites - relaxation exercises, and Dr. Claire Weekes:

Relaxation exercises, guided meditations, calming videos, sleep hypnosis

The Dr. Claire Weekes method of recovering from a sensitized nervous system

 

Edited by Shep
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sunnysideup69
2 hours ago, Songbird said:

 

Here's our general topic - lots of links to other topics in here:

Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms

 

And my favourites - relaxation exercises, and Dr. Claire Weekes:

Relaxation exercises, guided meditations, calming videos, sleep hypnosis

The Dr. Claire Weekes method of recovering from a sensitized nervous system

 

 

Thanks @Songbird...I love Claire Weekes and had forgotten about her.

Will be great to check those other things out 🙏

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BreathofAir

Just checking in  and seeing how you are doing and what sort of day you’ve had?  I can’t remember whether you’ve had any therapy like counselling or CBT or hypnotherapy.  I saw a new counsellor today and she’s given me confidence.  My coping and soothing skills need work too. I struggle with meditation, but am hopefully going to restart yoga. 

 

Hope you are ok. Always here. Sleep well and keep healing. 

R xxxxxxx

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sunnysideup69
9 hours ago, BreathofAir said:

Just checking in Ruth and seeing how you are doing and what sort of day you’ve had?  I can’t remember whether you’ve had any therapy like counselling or CBT or hypnotherapy.  I saw a new counsellor today and she’s given me confidence.  My coping and soothing skills need work too. I struggle with meditation, but am hopefully going to restart yoga. 

 

Hope you are ok. Always here. Sleep well and keep healing. 

R xxxxxxx

 

Hey Breath of Air,

I had a good day. I was able to go about normal things and was really distracted from overthinking.

It was sunny here in London, and I sat in the garden, just taking in the smells and the blue sky, and actually feeling happy and content. I live for days like this. They remind me that I'm going to be okay again.

This recovery/ stabilising lark is so weird. Tried to do exactly the same things on Thursday and just couldn't tolerate it, had to go back in and sit in the shade. Felt totally flat and depressed. Then had acupuncture, which has set me right again.

I trained as a psychotherapist, and as a result, have had years of therapy, which really helped before when I was depressed. Now it's a bit different. I feel like I need someone who understands what psych drugs can do to the brain and is on board with the whole notion of withdrawal syndrome. I'd quite like to find an antidepressant survivors group, also. Maybe it's a case of starting one....

Am so glad your counsellor was good. I'm a big advocate for talking therapy. Is your therapy CBT based? 

Yes, meditation can be tricky at times like these. I use an app called Headspace, it has different packs of meditations and I'm working through one called ' letting go of stress.' It's more of a visualisation, which I find easier to do in my current position.

How was your day? Beginning yoga again sounds like a really good idea, something gentle like Hatha Yoga? Are you able to do any of the relaxation exercises on YouTube....am gonna give them a go....

Sending you good wishes for a better day today 😊

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sunnysideup69

Dear mods,

Since I joined here a couple of weeks ago, and really started to pay attention to myself, I've become aware of how much I go through ups and downs still.

I think usually, work distracts me. I'm on holiday at the moment.

 

I've been back on one dose for 9 months now, and I do recognise that I'm a lot better. However, is it unusual to be still wobbling around a bit? Or even to have crappy months so far into the restabilisation process? I'd love to chat to anyone in a similar situation ie someone who updosed and then took a long time to settle. Just looking for a bit of reassurance here, am having a slightly weird mini wave this afternoon....oddly, this sometimes seems to happen after I've eaten a big meal, just had lunch. ( Eat really healthily though.)

 

On a more positive note, yesterday I felt really happy and contented, and I'm going out dancing later. Kind of grieving my old life of drinking prossecco, but it's gone.

Apologies for being a whinger, sometimes it just helps to vent.

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Gridley
On 5/25/2019 at 9:54 AM, Ruthmcg said:

 

I've been back on one dose for 9 months now, and I do recognise that I'm a lot better. However, is it unusual to be still wobbling around a bit? Or even to have crappy months so far into the restabilisation process?

 

It is very encouraging that you're doing better and a sign that the updose is working.  You are still stabilizing, so ups and downs are to be expected.  

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sunnysideup69
12 minutes ago, Gridley said:

 

It is very encouraging that you're doing better and a sign that the updose is working.  You are still stabilizing, so ups and downs are to be expected.  

 

Thank you ...forcing myself outside now. Too much introspection doesn't help. I'm just impatient with myself. Very grateful for everyone's support here.

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sunnysideup69

Ok, am gonna post something positive instead of ruminating. Or rather, am gonna ruminate on good things. I realise I need to change the channel at times.

Here are some of the things that have gone well since updosing to 10mg last August.

 

1. Have started a new part-time, permanent teaching job.Most days, I manage to get to it.

2. I have a really caring boss, to whom I've managed to speak really candidly lately about what's going on for me. I have school's support.

3. Have taken the positive step of reaching out on this forum.

4. Have a steady workout routine of 2x running and 2x strength training per week.

5. I've mostly eliminated 'added sugar' from my diet, and gluten, occasional treats allowed.

6. I've opened up to friends about current struggle. Am still seeing friends, even if I don't feel great.

7. Have quit alcohol, was only ever an occasional drinker anyway but have realised in my current condition, it causes me to crash. Proud of myself for this. 

8. Have eliminated a particularly toxic 'relationship' from my life.

9. Have moved into my own housing association place and have nearly finished furnishing it. Got some veggies growing in the communal garden, and some sunflowers sprouting out the front.

10. Started counselling with school kids, in spite of my own struggles, and am really seeing it have a positive impact.

11. I can still laugh at ridiculous things.

12. Some days, I actually feel happy and content. A glimmer of my truer nature coming through.

 

I think I'm gonna print this out and stick it where I can see it every day.

 

An insight; yesterday, I was remembering how, even when I started taking ads in 2008, I still had windows and waves when settling. I didn't really settle on them for about a year- who knows if that was the drugs, or if that was just my anxiety/depression lifting of its own accord. Probably a bit of both. They largely worked because I believed they would. Now I have to invest that belief in myself and my own capacity to heal.

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RichT
On 5/26/2019 at 3:31 AM, Ruthmcg said:

Ok, am gonna post something positive instead of ruminating. Or rather, am gonna ruminate on good things. I realise I need to change the channel at times.

Here are some of the things that have gone well since updosing to 10mg last August.

 

1. Have started a new part-time, permanent teaching job.Most days, I manage to get to it.

2. I have a really caring boss, to whom I've managed to speak really candidly lately about what's going on for me. I have school's support.

3. Have taken the positive step of reaching out on this forum.

4. Have a steady workout routine of 2x running and 2x strength training per week.

5. I've mostly eliminated 'added sugar' from my diet, and gluten, occasional treats allowed.

6. I've opened up to friends about current struggle. Am still seeing friends, even if I don't feel great.

7. Have quit alcohol, was only ever an occasional drinker anyway but have realised in my current condition, it causes me to crash. Proud of myself for this. 

8. Have eliminated a particularly toxic 'relationship' from my life.

9. Have moved into my own housing association place and have nearly finished furnishing it. Got some veggies growing in the communal garden, and some sunflowers sprouting out the front.

10. Started counselling with school kids, in spite of my own struggles, and am really seeing it have a positive impact.

11. I can still laugh at ridiculous things.

12. Some days, I actually feel happy and content. A glimmer of my truer nature coming through.

 

I think I'm gonna print this out and stick it where I can see it every day.

 

An insight; yesterday, I was remembering how, even when I started taking ads in 2008, I still had windows and waves when settling. I didn't really settle on them for about a year- who knows if that was the drugs, or if that was just my anxiety/depression lifting of its own accord. Probably a bit of both. They largely worked because I believed they would. Now I have to invest that belief in myself and my own capacity to heal.

 

Well done Ruth!

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sunnysideup69

@RichT thank you, how are you doing? 

God, we have to remind ourselves of the things that are going well, eh? Because I know that when I'm in a crash, I forget about all of this so easily.

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RichT

Hi,

 

i’m still recovering from a stressful week, feeling tired, achy, and ill, but there are some good signs. I’m sticking with it.

 

yes, it’s important to stress the positives!

 

Rich

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sunnysideup69
18 minutes ago, RichT said:

Hi Ruth,

 

i’m still recovering from a stressful week, feeling tired, achy, and ill, but there are some good signs. I’m sticking with it.

 

yes, it’s important to stress the positives!

 

Rich

 

Good on ya! Sorry to hear it's been stressful and yes, I empathise.

You're in London, I see. Wondering if you know of any support groups for people coping with the 'joys' of antidepressants...? I'm meeting another such person (from a forum) in June and we are looking for such a group, or maybe even thinking about starting one.

I'm really glad you're seeing good signs. I hope you're able to get some enjoyment out of bank holiday :)

And thank you for your comment.

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Sassenach

Good morning

 

Sorry for not responding last night but was not feeling great and to be honest I could not believe we were struggling with Breathofair again.

Just as she seemed to be getting somewhere. I keep intending to read your thread but seem to get drawn elsewhere.

Nothing personal but I am male, so easily distracted🤣.

Are you off work today if so have a good one.

Long distance hug to you.

Speak soon.

 

Sassenach

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RichT
On 5/26/2019 at 8:57 AM, Ruthmcg said:

 

Good on ya! Sorry to hear it's been stressful and yes, I empathise.

You're in London, I see. Wondering if you know of any support groups for people coping with the 'joys' of antidepressants...? I'm meeting another such person (from a forum) in June and we are looking for such a group, or maybe even thinking about starting one.

I'm really glad you're seeing good signs. I hope you're able to get some enjoyment out of bank holiday :)

And thank you for your comment.

 

Hi Ruth,

 

I don't know of a group i’m afraid

 

warm wishes,

 

Rich

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sunnysideup69

Thanks @RichT,

Might have to start one. Will have a chat with my friend.

Best wishes to you,

Ruth 

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sunnysideup69
11 hours ago, Sassenach said:

Good morning Ruth

 

Sorry for not responding last night but was not feeling great and to be honest I could not believe we were struggling with Breathofair again.

Just as she seemed to be getting somewhere. I keep intending to read your thread but seem to get drawn elsewhere.

Nothing personal but I am male, so easily distracted🤣.

Are you off work today if so have a good one.

Long distance hug to you.

Speak soon.

 

Sassenach

 

Thanks so much Sassenach, have only just seen this...I get a bit lost in these threads sometimes. Just posted on your thread, in fact, sorry you've been having some bad days. 

Likewise, last week was very up and down. Been off work today, on half term this week and don't go back until next Monday. It's good to have the break, feel like May has been tough. Looking forward to feeling better again.

Long distance hug to you, too x

PS I am half Scots, dad hails from Glasgae.

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BreathofAir

Hi , 

 

Sorry to be late with this, as I know you like to get off to bed.  I just wanted to wish you a good night and thank you for your message.  And to apologise for being so draining.  I think I make Sassenach very cross and I don’t wish to do that.  I appreciate all your time and advice very much. 

 

I hope you have a much more even month coming up and things really pick up for you. 

 

Bless you and hope you sleep well and heal well. 

 

R xxxxxx

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sunnysideup69

@BreathofAir Hi Rachel, you are not draining to me. Honestly. It's good to chat. Thank you for your good wishes.It really does help to share with people who understand and are in a similar position.

May has been a difficult month for me, mostly waves,unfortunately. Just keeping the faith that things will level out again. What a flippin journey this is. Having people to talk to here is just so helpful.

 

How are you feeling today?

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sunnysideup69

Dear moderators,

Would really appreciate your thoughts. I think this is just my anxious brain looking for outside reassurance, trying to also self soothe, but any ideas from you would surely help.

 

May has been horrible, and I'm a bit scared. My reinstatemnet last August finally seemed to be working in March and April, and this month I feel as if I have gone backwards a bit. Seem to be getting worse side effects eg muscle twitching and some of that 'start up' anxiety. Is it possible that the citalopram has 'pooped out' for me, or is it likely just to be a wave? I should add that I'm still functioning in the world, but just feeling dreadful as I go about it. I'm a jittery wreck this month. Also wondering whether acupuncture is somehow agitating my response, although she knows I have heightened anxiety and has been doing 'soothing' treatments.

 

Deep down, I know this is probably a wave but I'm a bit scared as it seems like a longer one this time, and my logical mind feels as if they should be getting shorter, not longer.

Thanks again for your support. 

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Gridley
On 5/28/2019 at 2:20 AM, Ruthmcg said:

or is it likely just to be a wave?

 

Given that you had two good months, it sounds like a wave to me.  There are going to be ups and downs.  I would hold steady.

 

I notice in your signature you take a B-complex.  In withdrawal, B-complex can be activating (cause anxiety).

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sunnysideup69
1 minute ago, Gridley said:

 

Given that you had two good months, it sounds like a wave to me.  There are going to be ups and downs.  I would hold steady.

 

Thanks Gridley. I also had a chat with acupuncturist today. I realised that in Jan/Feb/Mar I was having weekly or biweekly acupuncture sessions...I think that's how I managed to be steady for so long, it was really helping. I dropped to one a month in April and this month....think I'm gonna resume weekly, as it definitely seemed to help.

 

The past 24 hours have been intensely anxious, had awful sleep......got up today and went for a run. Am now in a window again this afternoon. I agree.....it does seem like windows/waves. It's too easy to be tempted to throw petrol on the fire ie increase, but I'm not gonna do that, am gonna sit this out and go back to supportive acupunc sessions.

Thanks so much for patiently answering whilst I wobble around this month x

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sunnysideup69
29 minutes ago, Gridley said:

 

I notice in your signature you take a B-complex.  In withdrawal, B-complex can be activating (cause anxiety).

 

Oh, really? That's very interesting....I might experiment with not taking it and see what happens. Still intending to get fish oil. 

I made the mistake of taking rhodiola back in October, an adaptogen, at quite high dose, and that sent me through the roof.....even though I have successfully taken it before. So I guess I could be oversensitive to the b complex.

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puthappinessfirst

Hi Ruth,

 

Definitely agree that it sounds like a wave, especially since you had some solid months of stability. The waves are super frustrating though, arent they? You're doing great! 

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sunnysideup69
1 minute ago, puthappinessfirst said:

Hi Ruth,

 

Definitely agree that it sounds like a wave, especially since you had some solid months of stability. The waves are super frustrating though, arent they? You're doing great! 

 

Thanks so much for the comment. Just looking back thru my notes and I realise that January and most of Feb was pretty good, too........so, the dreaded wave it is. How you doing?

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Sassenach

good morning.

Is it sunny in the big smoke?

Some good help for Rachel from you, makes me realise how lucky I am.

You are about six months ahead of me so watching your progress closely.

How does it feel to be the Guinea Pig ( a cute one of course ).

I realise we are all different but is helps when yo see someone improving.

Don't work too hard.

 

From the cloudy north.

 

Sassenach

Edited by manymoretodays
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sunnysideup69

@Sassenach

Good morning, good to get up to your message. Thanks so much for your kind words. I hope you realise how much you yourself help people with your thoughtful comments

Well, the sun is attempting to peek out through the clouds here, dare I even think it feels a tiny bit warmer.

Hahaha, I don't mind being a guinea pig at all! 

It really does help to see people improve....hoping today is a better day for you, too.

I'm going to get myself out for a walk around the park now. Since I started typing this, the sun has gone in again....but am needing the daylight.

Planning on a chilled out kind of a day, hoping my nervous system cooperates, but if it doesn't, will just have to roll with it. The last 9 months have certainly provided opportunities to practice patience....

Sending good wises,

Ruth. 

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sunnysideup69

Just making a note for myself, to see if this is a repeating pattern.

 

Last two times I've had acupuncture, by day 4/5 afterwards, I have an anxiety and depression 'spike', it seems to peak for 24 hours and then go away gradually. I know acupuncture works on the nervous system; I wonder if it affects neurotransmitter levels, which then affect mood? 

 

Also, have noticed that a wave is usually preceeded by feeling intensely cold, even on a warm day- thermo dysreguation seems to come before the rollercoaster moods.

I'm in a window this afternoon. This morning wasn't bad, just a minor bit of anxiety and fleeting depression, then around about 11 am, it was as if a switch just flipped 'on' in my head and I was interested in things again. Utterly strange, but I'm using the clear headed time to get some admin done.

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Sassenach

Jam the switch on if you can find it, and if you can tell the rest of us.

Are you still getting head fog 8 months in? I only ask because I want to visit my parents about 3 hours away but don't feel fit to drive the distance because of head fog and disturbed vision.

Have a good evening and even better day tomorrow.

 

Sassenach

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BreathofAir

Hi , 

 

I find acupuncture spikes me also, depending on what points are used.  It just seems to adrenalise me, but worked wonders when I was tapering last year.  I am sure your acupuncturist will be using tonification points, but you definitely need a bit of spleen 9, if you haven’t had it already.  It always helps me. Yes acupuncture can affect mood. I am good friends with a very knowledgeable practitioner. 

 

Maybe also try moxa sticks on your hands. It’s very restful. Just don’t burn yourself.  You can get them online. You want the small ones, not the chimney pot size! 

 

Keep talking to your switch that it’s now fixed in the “on”position and the off button has unfortunately snapped off.  I am reading about suggestion.  I wish I could watch TV just for a little while, but still a no-no right now.  I know reading is better for me.  

 

Hope you sleep well tonight. I have a stinking Escitalopram speciality headache. Feel like I’ve been thumped on the head. 🤕

 

Take care, bless you and praying for more healing to come your way. Sleep tight. 

R xxxxxxxxx

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sunnysideup69

Hey @Sassenach 

12 hours ago, Sassenach said:

Jam the switch on if you can find it, and if you can tell the rest of us.

Are you still getting head fog 8 months in? I only ask because I want to visit my parents about 3 hours away but don't feel fit to drive the distance because of head fog and disturbed vision.

Have a good evening and even better day tomorrow.

 

Sassenach

 

Good morning from damp London. Hoping the day is starting better where you are. 

 

Oh gosh, I wish I could jam that switch on...... however, I did have a much better day yesterday. Anxiety has calmed down again. Went out for a long walk in the park and did some strength training. Movement definitely helps calm down my anxiety. 

 

I think the head fog has lessened a lot, the last time it happened was at work about 2 months ago when a colleague asked me something really simple and I was just totally confused.... 

Sometimes however I really can't think 'straight', as it were. But it's definitely a lot better. 

That weird blurred vision has cleared right up, too. This is something for you to look forward to 😊

I'm off to meet a friend for coffee this morning, (well, herbal tea for me 😝) - her daughter was on citalopram for years and is now successfully off. Want to find out how she achieved it. 

Wishing you a good day, Sassenach. By the way, I am half Scots. Can't remember if I told you that before.... my dad hails from Glasgow. 

Talk very soon x

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