sunnysideup69: what can I do to stabilise on venlafaxine

[sunnysideup69]

57 minutes ago, BreathofAir said:

Hi again Ruth, 

 

I always feel tired after acupuncture.  If you do feel wiped out,  it’s a sign you need a rest because you’re depleted.  Drink a lot of water also, but I’m sure you know this!  Don’t overdo the exercise.  Given that it stimulates your nervous system and releases chemicals into your brain, there’s no doubt it will have an effect on what the Citalopram is doing.  You will pick up again, just rest and take it steady at work. 

 

R xxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

Thanks so much Rachel. Good reminder. I'm just sinking into the sofa now, and resting up.

[puthappinessfirst]

On 6/3/2019 at 10:43 AM, Ruthmcg said:

Hmmmmm. Not quite sure why this would be. Back to work tomorrow so have some lurking anxiety about that, but this feels neurochemical...

 

I had that first going back to work as well, but it was baaad. 

It felt like my first day at my first job ever. I had such high anxiety and fear. 

But it has gradually gone away. 

It will for you too! 

Edited December 21, 2019 by Shep
updated new member name in text box

[sunnysideup69]

3 minutes ago, puthappinessfirst said:

 

I had that first going back to work as well, but it was baaad. 

It felt like my first day at my first job ever. I had such high anxiety and fear. 

But it has gradually gone away. 

It will for you too! 

 

Thanks happiness, it will no doubt....

Was it in one of your posts that you described feeling like you were 'going to work on acid.'? That made me laugh so much. It is SO odd going into the workplace with these jangly nerves.I'm either hyper aware of it, or I just couldn't give a flying you know what.  It's really weird. Ah well, deep breath and in we go tomorrow.

Ruth x

[puthappinessfirst]

Yes, I did say that hahah.

But I'm not original, I saw someone else explain their symptoms that way as well and it fit.

 

I was hyper aware, panicky, fearful, paranoid. Not a good time. But now a lot of the time work helps distract me in a positive way.

[BreathofAir]

Hi , 

 

Just checking that you got through work ok and you haven’t tired yourself out. Hope it all went ok. 

Sleep well and heal well. 😴😴😴😴

 

Bless you, 

R xxxxxxxxxxxx

 

Edited December 20, 2019 by manymoretodays
name removed

[BreathofAir]

Hi , 

 

Hope you are ok and work today was fine. Thank you for your message. Really hoping Sassenach will be ok. He will be very much missed.  I managed a nice walk today, but it’s still too cold for June! Wish the rain would give it a rest! 

 

Hope you sleep well tonight. Bless you, 

R 

xxxxxxxxx

Edited December 20, 2019 by manymoretodays
name removed

[sunnysideup69]

Thanks @BreathofAir!

 

Check in now....well, I got through three days of teaching, and child counselling today. That's my first week back after wobbling a bit two weeks ago, plus half term. Can't say every day was totally symptom free, but I do feel much better, and it's good to be back at work.

Long chat with the boss about what's been going on, he's kind but I can tell he doesn't quite get it....but that's okay, at least he's trying to be supportive.

 

Had to fend off lots of nosey questions from a coworker about why I'd been absent at the end of term. I'm really selective about whom I talk to openly, it's a big school and I sure don't need my mental health struggles to be a topic of gossip. I was a bit annoyed with her, she asked me once and I said , 'Oh, I'd rather not go there,' and changed the subject- then she asked me again the following day. I was quite blunt that time -haha.

 

Bit of anxiety Thursday morning, was a bit grouchy but it soon passed.

 

I do believe my baseline after this last wave feels a bit more like the 'real' me. I'm naturally ( when not over medicated) quite emotional, but I've not really been able to cry since going back onto 10mg last August. I don't like that. The only time I've cried has been a really weird neurocrying that came out of the blue...weird because it didn't seem to come from the heart, more like I just suddenly had a meltdown....odd. However, this morning I was listening to some music on headphones before work, and I spontaneously just felt really connected to it and started crying. And then I realised that these are my 'normal' feelings, and cried even more. It felt good to have some genuine feeling back. My baseline has been pretty blank-feeling these past few months, and I think I detect a shift.

 

I still feel a bit vulnerable around people at work. I take things to heart very easily, and we do have some more robust (read 'abrasive') characters, so learning to navigate those is an interesting exercise at the moment. Mostly though, people are great. Definitely takes me out of myself, having to focus on working.

Was reading my diary entries from this time last year when I was shifting around on dosages....and oh my goodness, I'm so much better than I was then. 

 

Hope you're all doing well. Looking forward to relaxing this weekend now. Sleep well xxx

 

 

[RichT]

Great news !

Edited December 20, 2019 by manymoretodays
name removed

[sunnysideup69]

13 minutes ago, RichT said:

Great news Ruth!

 

Thank you! How you doin'...good, I hope. Sleep well.

[RichT]

Hi ,

 

I’m a little better - i’ve been able to do some music composition, although it’s very tiring.  Thanks for the kind wishes

 

Rich

Edited December 20, 2019 by manymoretodays
name removed

[BreathofAir]

Good morning , 

 

Hope you slept well. 

 

Thank you for your really helpful reply.  Am still fighting off the cortisol sickness before I attempt breakfast!  It’s raining up here as well. Think tomorrow will be better. Am glad to hear you survived work.  I understand exactly how you must feel, getting out there, just trying to get on without giving too much away, but having to let certain people know what is going on. You are brave and you will be adjusting and your coping mechanisms will be increasing all the time, plus the good old neural pathways 🙂

 

Do you still have the cortisol mornings? I hope not. I think you’re doing really well and I’m very pleased for you. We have wobbles in everyday life with our emotions and confidence, but I know you will continue to get stronger and you don’t seem to have the psychological reliance on the Cit, which is very good. 

 

I hope you have a good day and can rest and recharge a bit.  Sending you my blessings and hugs. 

 

R xxxxxxx

Edited December 20, 2019 by manymoretodays
name removed

[sunnysideup69]

4 minutes ago, BreathofAir said:

 

Do you still have the cortisol mornings?

I do, but not as severe. Some days I definitely wake feeling more anxious. It tends to pass about 4 hours after taking the citalopram.

 

I often wake up feeling like I'm in withdrawal, with body tics and weird muscle jerks....this seems to tie in with an anxious mood. When I'm okay, these symptoms don't seem to be there. Also still have some odd gastric stuff happening intermittently....but overall, much better.

[Onmyway]

On 5/18/2019 at 2:11 AM, Ruthmcg said:

 

I really hope so. Still comes and goes a bit, and I sometimes can't work out whether I actually have a cold or whether it's darned side effects. Hope you're stabilising now?

I also have a version of this though not quite as severe. Still using my winter, really warm jacket and cranking up the heat. At night though I sweat like crazy.

Regarding the fluey symptoms, they could very much be wd. After dropping to 0 mg of celexa I had a week of what I thought was flu at the time. Except, no throat pain, no nasal issues just exhaustion, feeling sick, chest pains. Ended up in the AE because of the chest pains. Everythng was OK. Only later did I realize that it was the  beginning of wd. It was the strangest "flu" I've had.

 

Also, I have to say, I have been so amazed at how us 'withdrawers' just keep questioning ourselves regarding out symptoms (I do it all the time about everything). I wonder if it is the conditioning that we have had all life  that it's all in our heads or we just tend to be more self-critical than others. Just an observation.

 

Please take good care of yourself. 

Edited December 21, 2019 by Shep
updated new member name in text box

[sunnysideup69]

I have a question for @brassmonkey

Is it still likely to be stabilization for me after 10 months holding at 10mg, or is it possible that I'm in poopout?

This last couple of months have been very wavey, although I do intermittently have good days and weeks, even.

I'm a bit worried because last month felt worse in some ways. Shouldn't my waves be getting further apart by now, rather than closer together?

 

Should also add I'm having acupuncture, am sure that will be having an effect.

[sunnysideup69]

I'm having an anxiety day, today. I keep finding things to worry about. Think I'm tired from being back at work, and also, my stomach feels really off.

[sunnysideup69]

On 6/2/2019 at 2:11 AM, Tom37 said:

 

 

I think once once you get through this rough patch you will see an improved baseline which hopefully means your not far away from stability. Try not to be concerned that it’s taking this long as not uncommon for it to take 12 months or longer. We all just heal at different rates but we do heal. 

 

Hanging onto this because having another anxiety spike today. Have been really up and down over the last five weeks especially....it's hard not to compare, isn't it? Hoping this anxiety spike sods off again soon.

[Tom37]

No good about the anxiety spike but it will settle down like it has every other time I’m sure. It’s all windows and waves. 

 

I dont know much anout poopout but if you have got a lot better from ten months again I would think to keep holding. I’m in the same boat but at seven months. There is no timeline on stabilising it seems. Thankfully I haven’t really had anxiety as a symptom but I know it must be awful to have to continually deal with it.

 

I always try to think that if all my earlier symptoms went away then it’s only a matter of time before current ones do. Symptoms just mean cns/brain is not happy and trying to get back to its normal state.

[BreathofAir]

Hi , 

 

Hope you are ok. Just remind yourself how far you’ve come. Work is a normal stressor to most people and you are still adjusting. There are bugs going round everywhere, especially in schools. My stomach always takes a hit. Just stick to your healthy diet, the sleep, the exercise and the rest and go at the pace you can manage at school.  Just like with my daughter, I understand this is a big factor for you. You will get into a rhythm and feel more stable and confident. 

 

I also had viruses back-to-back last year over several months whilst holding at 10mg. They wiped me out and I was up and down like a yo-yo, but picked up really well once I’d got rid of everything.  Plus the hormones always like to be involved messing us about.  I’ve had 3 ‘monthly visits’ in five weeks!! 😏😏😏

 

Thinking of you and hope you get a good night’s sleep. Bless you and keep healing. 

 

Night night. Big hugs. 

R xxxxxxxxx

Edited December 20, 2019 by manymoretodays
name removed

[brassmonkey]

Hi -- from your fast taper and large updose last year this is going to be a stabilization issue and not poopout.  Ten months seems like a long time to stabilize, but it is with in the "normal" time span.  I would continue to hold and work on my coping skills.  Stabilization will happen, it won't necessarily be an absence of symptoms, but rather a steady state of feeling bad with no big swings either direction.

 

Be careful with the acupuncture.  Be sure to get treatments that are calming and not stimulating.

Edited December 20, 2019 by manymoretodays
name removed

[RichT]

On 6/8/2019 at 9:40 AM, Ruthmcg said:

I'm having an anxiety day, today. I keep finding things to worry about. Think I'm tired from being back at work, and also, my stomach feels really off.

 

In my experience, working hard at something does increase symptoms for a while. I find it frustrating, but for me that’s the way it is. I find simply resting helps.

 

warmest wishes,

 

Rich

Edited December 21, 2019 by Shep
updated new member name in text box

[sunnysideup69]

1 hour ago, brassmonkey said:

Hi Ruth-- from your fast taper and large updose last year this is going to be a stabilization issue and not poopout.  Ten months seems like a long time to stabilize, but it is with in the "normal" time span.  I would continue to hold and work on my coping skills.  Stabilization will happen, it won't necessarily be an absence of symptoms, but rather a steady state of feeling bad with no big swings either direction.

 

Be careful with the acupuncture.  Be sure to get treatments that are calming and not stimulating.

Thanks @brassmonkey, puts my knotty mind at rest. Yeah, think am gonna have another chat to acu lady. Am actually wondering whether I'd be better off with just something gentler, like massage, at the moment. 

[withhopeinmyheart]

Hey , 

 

I'm so sorry things are rough. You're so right about comparing your progress to others. 

It's so hard not to do it! 

 

I seem to do it automatically, my thoughts keep spiraling and then I have to pull myself back from that place again and again. And I always tell myself "don't panic, your brain wants to heal, it's constantly working towards healing, in its own time."

 

Sending hugs and healing thoughts 

Edited December 20, 2019 by manymoretodays
name removed

[sunnysideup69]

9 hours ago, Tom37 said:

 

 

I dont know much anout poopout but if you have got a lot better from ten months again I would think to keep holding.....Symptoms just mean cns/brain is not happy and trying to get back to its normal state.

 

Thanks Tom. It's been a strange 5 weeks. Symptoms are so odd, the way they come and go. In the beginning, didn't have much anxiety. Felt more flat/depressed. Now I have periods of feeling normal interspersed with anxiety. It's annoying. My sleep is a bit disturbed again. Just gotta get through 6 more weeks of work, and then school holidays are here. I only work 3.5 days a week, thankfully. 

[sunnysideup69]

8 hours ago, RichT said:

 

In my experience, working hard at something does increase symptoms for a while. I find it frustrating, but for me that’s the way it is. I find simply resting helps.

 

warmest wishes,

 

Rich

Thanks Rich. It's coming close to end of school term, and I think maybe it's just accumulated tiredness from this academic year. 

Am not very good at allowing myself to just stop and do nothing at the weekend, but am just gonna stay in bed today. 

[sunnysideup69]

9 hours ago, BreathofAir said:

Hi Ruth, 

 

  Just like with my daughter, I understand this is a big factor for you. You will get into a rhythm and feel more stable and confident. 

 

I also had viruses back-to-back last year over several months whilst holding at 10mg. They wiped me out and I was up and down like a yo-yo, but picked up really well once I’d got rid of everything.  Plus the hormones always like to be involved messing us about.  I’ve had 3 ‘monthly visits’ in five weeks!! 😏😏😏

 

Thanks Rachel. I have picked up nearly every virus going round school since going back on 10mg....hmmmmm. Yeah, being able to work is huge. I have been feeling a bit guilty cos I went from temp to permanent, and as soon as I got my contract, I had time out because of this... anyway, it's useless feeling guilty. 

Sleep was a bit sketchy, but I made myself go out last night and laughed a lot, so I'm sure that was restorative. 

Hope you're OK x

[sunnysideup69]

5 hours ago, withhopeinmyheart said:

Hey Ruth, 

 

I'm so sorry things are rough. You're so right about comparing your progress to others. 

It's so hard not to do it! 

 

I seem to do it automatically, my thoughts keep spiraling and then I have to pull myself back from that place again and again. And I always tell myself "don't panic, your brain wants to heal, it's constantly working towards healing, in its own time."

 

Sending hugs and healing thoughts 

Hello hope, 

Such a lovely message. Oh, those spiralling thoughts.... they really had me yesterday. 

 

How are things with you? Going to visit your thread...... 

[sunnysideup69]

Feeling really grateful for so much support. It's been rough since this time last month, with some good stretches of time feeling normal, too. Just gotta hang onto that.

 

Also need to cut myself some slack. Since that huge updose last year, I've moved house, furnished it and started a new job. All of that is stressful even when feeling well. 

Also turned 50, and done a bit of a life review, had a bit of an existential crisis.

Something I've suddenly noticed....a wave is almost always preceeded by physical symtoms eg I feel like I have a cold/ I have a sore gut. Then come the emotional symptoms. Which for me, at the moment, tends to be anxiety.

I think the anxiety is subsiding again today, even as I am typing, am beginning to feel a bit more engaged in the world, thinking about going to the shop etc. 

 

Had a ticket to go hear 'Nights of Grief and Mystery' last night- Steven Jenkins and Gregory Hoskins. Really felt too anxious to go, but am so glad I did. It was wonderful and managed to chat and be sociable. So even a tiny window within the wave. Bad sleep, anxiety on awaking, taken citalopram 10mg at 7am as usual and am beginning to feel a bit calmer. Just gotta let this wave recede again. 

[Gridley]

On 6/9/2019 at 4:16 AM, Ruthmcg said:

 

Also need to cut myself some slack

 

"Be kind to yourself" is what I often say.

 

These are good for anxiety:

 

Books and recordings by Dr. Claire Weekes:  The Dr. Claire Weekes method of recovering from a sensitized nervous system

 

Relaxation exercises for calming the nervous system:  Relaxation exercises, guided meditations, calming videos, sleep hypnosis

Edited December 21, 2019 by Shep
updated new member name in text box

[sunnysideup69]

5 minutes ago, Gridley said:

 

"Be kind to yourself" is what I often say.

 

These are good for anxiety:

 

Books and recordings by Dr. Claire Weekes:  The Dr. Claire Weekes method of recovering from a sensitized nervous system

 

Relaxation exercises for calming the nervous system:  Relaxation exercises, guided meditations, calming videos, sleep hypnosis

 

Yes, that's a good expression. I've been pressing on as if I'm not recovering from some major wobble. Thanks for these, going to check out the calming meditations.

Thank you x hope you are also well yourself  

[sunnysideup69]

Ok ...so...bit calmer this eve. Hopefully will get some sleep tonight. I'm posting a lot this weekend, but it's really to put my own mind at rest.

Feeling alternatingly cold and shivery, and hot and sweaty. This is a new feature. Lovely. 😒 Also with the anxiety, have felt really bloated, noticing that as my stomach has settled today, so has my anxiety.

 

Gut -brain axis in action.....gonna be nice to my gut. Fed it some tasty kefir and have eaten a lot today. My appetite completely goes when anxious.

 

Progress across the months

September 2018- loopy and all over the place, just about managing to hold it together at work

October- some improvement then hit by intense wave in final week of month

November- generally a good month with minor blips

December- 50 per cent ok, two nasty waves 16th to 23rd December and again 27th until 3rd Jan

January 4th onwards, really good month, no waves as such ( started acupuncture)

February generally ok but a big wave from around 23rd to 25th, and then again 26th to 28th

March generally ok, minor blips

April ok, 5day wave in middle, one rough day at the end

May -urgh- waves- short bursts but intense, mostly anxiety 7th, 19th-21st, 28th

 

 

So, I think I can see progress, and there is a change in the duration of the waves....

[BreathofAir]

Hi , 

 

Really good posting. You’re doing great.  I don’t think the weather and bugs everywhere are helping anyone’s immunity, so don’t get too anxious. I am always anxious when I bloat. It obstructs the diaphragm, our helpful friend in breathing properly, which triggers anxiety usually through unnoticed hyperventilation.  My diet is so strict it’s ridiculous because I have acid reflux, but came off the PPIs.  

 

I hope you have reassured yourself sufficiently to see that you’ve achieved a lot and in testing situations too. Good for you. I’m so pleased and impressed. 

 

Sleep well and heal well. And face this Monday with strength and courage knowing that you’re doing really well. 

Bless you.  Sending more 🤗 xxxxxx

 

R xxxxxxxxx

Edited December 20, 2019 by manymoretodays
name removed

[sunnysideup69]

"The ten-month wave will typically hit very hard and very fast.  Flaring up unexpectedly overnight.  It is common for this wave to be severe for two to five weeks before it ends.  Sometimes it ends as quickly as it started while in other cases it tapers off over several days.  There is frequently a similar but less severe wave that hits again at twelve months and in some cases, another in the eighteen-month range.  The latter two tend to be less severe in each case. Lately I’ve been hearing about another wave that happens about the three-year mark, but I haven’t been able to find out much about it.

 

These waves, particularly the ten-month wave, are important milestones if they occur.  In most cases they are a marker of great improvements and are followed by a large rise in the RecoveryNormal baseline that a person experiences."

 

@brassmonkey just found this in' 'how long is withdrawal going to take?' 

Really interesting in that this is pretty much what I am experiencing in my hold. May /June is the ten month mark for me, and has been a hideous wave with a bit of really good respite every now and again. The downs feel much more intense, but when they recede, I feel much more myself than I have done in ages. My WD normal has been feeling really 'flat ', whereas now it's pretty much 'normal.' Ish. 

This has actually made me feel a lot more hopeful. 

 

Also realised that something similar occurred in my fast taper. When I cut from 5mg to 2.5mg in May 2017, I was okay at first, better even; gradually some insomnia crept in, and then around March/April 2018 I started to feel anxious/depressed. I just thought it was because of my change in diet. Seems likely now that it was because of withdrawal catching up. 

 

Lightbulb moments. 

Also remembering the GP who said to me around that time that it was 'practically unheard of to be taking 2.5mg' , and the therapist who said such a small dose would 'hardly be doing anything for me.' Duh. No wonder so many people stay trapped in the medicine merry go round forever, when there is such a blatant lack of understanding about how these medications work. 

Edited June 10, 2019 by sunnysideup69
to put in quotation marks

[sunnysideup69]

Ok, update on what's occurring. I do seem to be going through quite a big wave. I've actually taken some time out of work to recuperate, signed off for two weeks.Trying not to feel disheartened, but I do a little bit, if I'm honest. I think my nervous system just needs a bit of time to resettle. Ever since August, when I updosed, I've just kind of ploughed on, went back to work etc. which has been helpful in some ways, it's a distraction. But I've become aware that I'm still quite fragile and my confidence is easily knocked.

 

I think the anxiety spikes were a bit of a warning that I was going to crash, and I just kind of carried on.

 

I've realised I'm very good at telling everyone else to take their foot off the gas, but not so good at practising it myself. Trying to see this as just a bump in the road.

 

I think what triggered it was some work stress; there was a suggestion that my job may change next year, from doing basic class cover to sharing a class with someone, which is a lot more work, and I got really worried about it. I think it's only a slight possibility, but I really don't want that, it feels like a step backwards. Because I'm going through such a long stabilisation process, I'm really easily knocked by stresses at the moment, and by uncertainty hanging over my head. My boss is very caring, but also a bit indecisive, and his comment just triggered a lot of unnecessary worrying.

 

I've got some CBT type counselling coming up via IAPT this week, even though I'm trained as a therapist myself, I didn't train in that modality and so I think it's gonna be quite useful to me.

 

Anyway. Just sharing. It helps, even if its on a screen. 

Just gonna focus on nourishing myself over the next couple of weeks, putting something back into a rather 'empty well.'

[RichT]

Hi ,

 

that sounds like a great plan! Yes, we are very susceptible to stress and worry during wd. It seems to be unavoidable! Taking some time out sounds like a very good idea. 

 

warmest wishes

 

Rich

Edited December 20, 2019 by manymoretodays
name removed

[BreathofAir]

Hi , 

 

Hope you are ok. Glad you signed off work to look after yourself and take stock of things. Thinking about you and sending hugs. I am sure the CBT will give you a lift and help to put your worries into perspective. Melt those snowballs away!! 

 

Catch you later. 

 

R xxxxxx

Edited December 20, 2019 by manymoretodays
name removed

[BreathofAir]

Hi , 

 

Just checking in to see how you are? 

 

Sending hugs, 

 

Rachel 

xxxxxx

Edited December 20, 2019 by manymoretodays
name removed