Tommy: am I withdrawing?

[Tommy]

Ok so 10 weeks ago i halved my dose of citalopram from 20mg (which i was taking for 1 year) to 10mg after a fast taper for about 4 weeks alternating doses each day from 20mg to 10mg. Which after reading the info on here i now know was a bad idea. At first i felt a bit off but nothing too serious for about 6 weeks. Since then I've gradually felt worse. Syptoms are headache, fatigue, tired, anxiety, irritable, depressed and feeling a bit better for say an hour then feeling like crap again! I have been through a stressful time in my personal life lately and wondoring if it could be that. Im wondering if i should reinstate to my previous dose or hold on 10mg. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks

[Tommy]

Also i must add i have been on and off citalopram a few times and never felt right 100%. In march 2018 i fast tapered off 10mg citalopram after being advised from my doctor over a few weeks. I felt horrific quite soon which lasted for 4 months until i couldn't stand it anymore and went back to 20mg citalopram. I felt reasonably stable for 12 month's. A few blips here and there that's why i decided to go down to 10mg which i now no was way too fast. 

[Gridley]

Welcome to SA, Tommy.

 

Yes, you are withdrawing.  As you've probably seen from reading through the site, we recommend tapering by no more than 10% of current dose every four weeks.

 

 http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1024-why-taper-by-10-of-my-dosage/

 

For future reference, we strongly recommend against skipping doses.  It causes the amount of the medication in your bloodstream to go up and down, battering your nervous system, and makes withdrawal worse.  Your fast taper and skipping doses explains why you're having the withdrawal symptoms you're experiencing.

 

What is withdrawal syndrome.

 

Glenmullen’s withdrawal symptom list.

 

When we take medications, the CNS (central nervous system) responds by making changes over the months and years we take the drug(s). When the medication is discontinued, the CNS has to undo all the changes it made. Rebuilding the neurotransmitter production and reactivating the receptor and transporter cells takes time -- during that rebuilding process symptoms occur.  

 

These explain it really well:

 

Video:  Healing From Antidepressants - Patterns of Recovery

 

   On 8/30/2011 at 2:28 PM,  Rhiannon said: 

When we stop taking the drug, we have a brain that has designed itself so that it works in the presence of the drug; now it can't work properly without the drug because it's designed itself so that the drug is part of its chemistry and structure. It's like a plant that has grown on a trellis; you can't just yank out the trellis and expect the plant to be okay. When the drug is removed, the remodeling process has to take place in reverse. SO--it's not a matter of just getting the drug out of your system and moving on. If it were that simple, none of us would be here. It's a matter of, as I describe it, having to grow a new brain. I believe this growing-a-new-brain happens throughout the taper process if the taper is slow enough. (If it's too fast, then there's not a lot of time for actually rebalancing things, and basically the brain is just pedaling fast trying to keep us alive.) It also continues to happen, probably for longer than the symptoms actually last, throughout the time of recovery after we are completely off the drug, which is why recovery takes so long.

Stress definitely can make withdrawal worse.  Whether or not you updose from your current 10mg is your decision.  Much depends on how significant your symptoms are  An updose/reinstatement is the only known way to lessen withdrawal symptoms, though it won't eliminate them entirely.  The other choice is to wait it out, but there's no way to predict how long it will take for your system to stabilize.  How bad are your symptoms?

 

Updosing doesn't always work, but you're within the 3-month window when it most predictably works.  You shouldn't updose back to your previous 20mg.  During the time you've been on the lower dose of 10mg and also skipping doses, you're brain has gotten accustomed somewhat to having less of the drug, and increasing to 20mg could be a shock to your system that could take quite a while to recover from.  Please read:

 

About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms. -- at least the first page of the topic

 

If you do updose, I'd suggest increasing from 10mg Citalopram to 11mg. These drugs are strong and you don't want to overshoot the mark and overwhelm your system.  It takes about four days for a dose change to get to full state in the blood and a bit longer for it to register in the.  The following link explains how to obtain the small dose you'll need for an updose.

 

Tips for tapering off Celexa (citalopram)

 

If you do updose, it will be helpful to keep notes on paper daily to see how the updose is doing.  Your should post these here in your Introductory topic once a day covering a 24-hour period.

 

We don't recommend a lot of supplements on SA, as many members report being sensitive to them due to our over-reactive nervous systems, but two supplements that we do recommend are magnesium and omega 3 (fish oil). Many people find these to be calming to the nervous system. 

 

Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker 

 

Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil) 

 

Please research all supplements first and only add in one at a time and at a low dose in case you do experience problems.

 

This is your Introductory topic, where you can post your daily notes should you decide to updose, ask questions and connect with other members.  We're glad you found your way here.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Tommy]

Thanks for the reply gridley, 

My symptoms are like they was last year when i came off completely but not as intense. I know something just isn't right. I'm finding it hard to concentrate and my memory is not great. I have that awful numb feeling that has come over me and feel very tired and fatigued with aching muscles. My sleeping ok which is good. I also have anxiety thinking i will never get off these tablets. Its really draining. I was fine the for the first 5-6 weeks then 'boom' its just hit me the last 3 weeks. I've been trying to ride the wave but it gets to the point where you think you are going to lose your head and can't take much more. I will take your advice and reinstate to 11mg. Is there any advice how i do this? I live in u.k and the citalapram tablets only come in 10 and 20mg. I can obvs take the 10mg but how do i get the 1mg? I am at the doctors on monday and going to see if i can get the liquid version but doubt the my doctor will understand. They don't have a clue to be honest. 

Any advice would be appreciated. 

Thankyou. 

[Gridley]

15 minutes ago, Tommy said:

Is there any advice how i do this? I live in u.k and the citalapram tablets only come in 10 and 20mg. I can obvs take the 10mg but how do i get the 1mg? I am at the doctors on monday and going to see if i can get the liquid version but doubt the my doctor will understand.

 

In the link I sent you, "Tip for tapering off Celexa," there are instructions on how to obtain the small dose you'll need.  It's quoted below so you can refer to it as needed.   There's a section at the end of the excerpt about liquid Citalopram being available in the U.K.  Of course, you'd have to get a prescription from your doctor.  As the excerpt details, you can also make your own liquid or you can cut and weigh tablets.  Many members, myself included, use the AWS Gemini-20 scale to weigh small doses.  It's 

available in the U.K. on Amazon. 

 

 

EXCERPT FROM LINK ON HOW TO OBTAIN SMALL DOSES:

Use Celexa liquid concentrate to taper
In the US, the liquid oral solution comes in 10 mg/5 mL (2 mg/mL), peppermint flavor. The bottle contains 240 mL. Pharmacy identifier is NDC 0456-4130-08 [see end of this excerpt for U.K. information]

Use an oral syringe to precisely measure out doses as small as .01mg.

Making a Celexa solution yourself
See  how-to-make-a-liquid-from-tablets-or-capsules

 

 

Tapering by cutting up tablets
The tablets are scored, which means they can be cut up.

Use a digital scale to accurately measure doses cut from tablets.

 

Using a combination of tablets and liquid

Rather than switch directly to an all-liquid dose, you may wish to take part of your dose in liquid and part in tablets, gradually converting to all-liquid as you get to lower dosages. This can be very convenient and reduce any problems switching from one form of the drug to another.

 

FYI, for those in the UK:

 

   On 9/28/2018 at 7:51 AM,  Caspur said: 

Hi ButterflyHope,

If you are in the UK, then yes it should be possible for you to get a liquid form of citilopram via your GP. The problem I've seen from others reporting is the cost. Some GPs will have one eye on their budgets. The liquid preps are expensive at £100-120 a 150ml bottle. My GP prescribed liquid venlafaxine for me with me even prompting him! That said, if there's any objections just make it clear that the NHS got you onto this drug so it has a moral obligation to help you get off it, whatever the cost!

The British National Formulary shows it is available as oral drops 40mg per ml of liquid; see link here.

https://bnf.nice.org.uk/medicinal-forms/citalopram.html

I'm sure it would be possible for the NHS to get it made up at a lower concentration which is probably what you need.

Good luck with your taper.

Caspur

 

Best of luck on your updose.

 

Gridley

[Tommy]

Ok thanks, would you recommend using the liquid form (if i can get it of my GP), make my own liquid or cut and weigh? 

[Gridley]

1 minute ago, Tommy said:

 

Ok thanks, would you recommend using the liquid form (if i can get it of my GP), make my own liquid or cut and weigh? 

 

 

All are valid.  It depends on what you're most comfortable with.  The liquid form is more precise.  If you do go to liquid, homemade or prescription, we recommend a gradual crossover to ease the change for your system.  Here's the crossover we recommend:

 

1/4 old (tablet), 3/4 liquid for 3 days to one week.

1/2 old, 1/2 new for 3 days to one week.

1/4 old, 3/4  new for 3 days to one week.

All new thereafter. 

 

Because of a lack of old brand, I switched faster than I would've liked to a new manufacture of Lorazepam/Ativan, which caused an uptick of symptoms.  If you go to liquid, you might want to do the longer transition.

[Tommy]

How do i reinstate citalopram?

 

Can anyone help me. I've had a look at the taper section about the weighing and cutting tablets but i still dont understand how i do it properly. 

 

Im having a few symptoms after tapering too quickly from 20mg to 10mg. Im not strugging as much as some people on here but still need some clear advice on how to updose to 11 or 12mg maybe as i don't want to go back up to the full 20mg. I've just bought the weigh i was advised to get but haven't a clue what im doing. Can i crush my tablets and just take it that way, or is this not safe? Once i stabilise i would then like to do the 10% taper.

 

Can anyone help me. 

 

Thanks

 

 

Edited September 29, 2019 by ChessieCat
added topic title

[ChessieCat]

On 9/27/2019 at 8:52 AM, Gridley said:

 

Making a Celexa solution yourself
See  how-to-make-a-liquid-from-tablets-or-capsules

 

 

On 9/27/2019 at 8:52 AM, Gridley said:

 

Use a digital scale to accurately measure doses cut from tablets.

 

 

Edited September 29, 2019 by ChessieCat

[Gridley]

9 hours ago, Tommy said:

I've had a look at the taper section about the weighing and cutting tablets but i still dont understand how i do it properly. 

The first thing you do is weigh ten tablets of your Celexa and get an average weight.  This will be your baseline pill weight.  It doesn't matter that the pill weights vary because most of the weight of the pill is filler.

 

Let's say, just by way of example,  your tablets are 10mg Celexa and that the average weight is 200mg.  If you want to weigh out an increase of 1mg, you would want 1/10 of the 10mg pill.  1/10 of the 200mg weight is 20mg.  Crush your pill into powder (I do it between two spoons or you can buy a pill crusher on Amazon) and weigh out 20mg, which we call 20mgpw (20mg pill weight), which is 

1mg active ingredient (1mgai).  You do the weighing using pill weight and you keep track of of your dosage using active ingredient.

 

Use the tongs that come with the scale to add and subtract powder until you get 20mg.  Then fold a small post-it in half, pour the powder into the folded post-it, then pour it into a gelatin capsule (size 00 is easy to use).  You have your dose increase for one day.  Save the rest of the powder in another capsule.

 

I'd recommend increasing only by 1mg to 11mg, rather than 2mg.

[Tommy]

Ok thanks this is much clearer and helps a lot. Cheers.

[Rhiannon]

I started my citalopram taper using a Gemini scale, which worked well at first. I prefer dissolving them in water though. I think particularly at smaller doses that's easier. I think at this point whatever works best for you is fine.

 

I would add, it's fine to reinstate a little, but at 10 mg you may find that if you can ride it out for a couple of months you will settle down pretty well. 20 mg correlates with 80% receptor occupancy, 10 mg is 70%, so it's not as drastic of a drop as you will get at lower doses. (As you can see when you tried to stop at 10 mg you went from 70% to zero--quite a different story!)

 

It's not a straight line, it's a curve. Tiny changes in dose at lower doses matter a lot but at 20 and 10 mg it's not as drastic.

 

 

 

 

[Tommy]

Thanks Rhiannon. Yes it that makes sense because last time when i went from 10mg to 0 it was quite horrendous. I am still having moments when i feel crap and then feel okay for a bit but I think i am obsessing sometimes and can read to much into my symptoms which can make it worse.

I think i will see how i feel the next few days then maybe reinstate to 11mg. Its crazy how some people can come off these tablets with minor problems and others really suffer. 

Thanks 

 

[Tommy]

Hi I've not been on here for a few months. I've been up and down in that time but its provably not helped that I've been drinking (at weekends) and taking the odd recreational drug here and there. I am still holding on 10 mg of citalopram which I'm going to slow taper when i feel I've stabalised.

 

Anyway does anyone know the stats on withdrawal? I take it that everyone on this forum is on here because they have had bad experiences when coming off the medication but what about all the people which have no problem coming off. I know its about the CNS but what i don't understand is why so many can come off pretty much unaffected. I know this as my sister and my dad are both okay 18 months after coming off. We have the same genetics so why have i struggled? 

 

I am from the UK, ive done some  research that 16% of the adult population (53,000,000) take antidepressants, that is 8,480,000 people who take the medication. That's a hell of a lot of people and thats just in the U.K. 

What im asking is why so many people get away with being fine. Are we just the unlucky few? 

 

Can anyone help? Thanks

 

[Lloyd]

I think there's allot of people who don't get off these drugs just fine & find themselves back on them soon afterwards because they are being told they are experiencing resurgent mental health problems - much more severe than prior to drug use. Finding out about discontinuation syndrome is something allot of people wont be aware of because doctors & mental health physicians out right deny its existence. Society tells us to trust doctors implicitly as though they are infallible so the average person won't ever question what they are being told. They go back on the drugs & everything is fine again. Doctor must be right because i'm feeling fine on the drugs. The lie won't hold up forever & cracks are already appearing.

[Tommy]

Yeah i totally agree with what you're saying but surely out of all those people there must be loads who are fine after taking them. There is millions and millions of people around the world on them so my question is why some are fine but some are badly affected. 

Like you said though the lie won't hold up forever though. It's an absolute disgrace that people are suffering like this. What do you think will happen over the next few years. Surely someone has to held account for this mess or do you think it will be swept under the carpet and covered up and it will never come out in the mainstream media?

[Gridley]

7 hours ago, Tommy said:

 

Anyway does anyone know the stats on withdrawal?

Stats are difficult to determine, partly because, as Lloyd noted, psychiatrists don't recognize withdrawal for what it is and instead attribute their patients' symptoms to the "return of the underlying condition" and put them on another drug and another drug.  

 

Altostrata, founder of this site, addressed statistics in the thread Why taper by 10% of my dosage?:

"Many people seem to be able to taper off psychiatric medications in a couple of weeks or even cold-turkey with minor withdrawal symptoms perhaps for a month or so. Doctors therefore expect everyone can do this. However, it seems a minority, perhaps a large minority, suffer severe symptoms for much longer.

It is unknown how large or small this minority is. It could be 10%. It could be 25%. It could be 50%. You may very well be in it. You can't know how your nervous system will respond to a decrease in medication until you try it. If you've had withdrawal symptoms or adverse reactions before, you are likely to have them again. Be careful, because an injury to the nervous system is like any other injury -- it can take time to heal."

 

Some progress is being made. The U.K.'s health guidelines now caution about severe and prolonged antidepressant withdrawal symptoms.  Here's a synopsis:

 

"The United Kingdom's medical treatment arbiter National Institute for Health and Care Excellence (NICE) just revised its guidelines for the use of antidepressants to treat depression.

 

You might print out this article from the UK's Royal Pharmaceutical Society journal for your doctors and pharmacists.

 

https://www.pharmaceutical-journal.com/news-and-analysis/news/nice-amends-depression-guideline-highlighting-severe-and-long-lasting-withdrawal-symptoms/20207226.article

 

  Quote

 

NICE amends depression guideline highlighting 'severe' and long-lasting withdrawal symptoms

 

The Pharmaceutical Journal 22 OCT 2019 By Julia Robinson

 

The National Institute for Health and Care Excellence (NICE) has amended its guidelines on depression in adults to highlight that antidepressant withdrawal symptoms may be severe in some patients.

 

The guidance, which was published in 2009 originally said that antidepressant withdrawal symptoms were usually “mild” and “self-limiting” over the course of a week.

 

The amendment, dated September 2019, clarifies that there can be “substantial variation in people’s experience” and that symptoms can persist for months or more and be “more severe for some patients”.

 

It also advises that before stopping antidepressant medication, patients should discuss the decision with their practitioner.

 

The amendments are in line with a position statement released by the Royal College of Psychiatrists (RCPsych) in May 2019.

....

 

 

 

 

 

[sunnysideup69]

@Tommy, have no idea about stats, but I think if you use drugs and alcohol in WD it's really not a good idea. No judgement here, I did the same thing, and it really didn't help matters along. At all. 

I'm sure you already know this so I hope you won't feel patronised but.....it's just not worth the risk. You can end up triggering a big setback.

 

 

[Tommy]

Yes you are bang on with that. I stabalised quite well after my drop from 20mg citalopram to 10mg then the last few months I've been hitting the alcohol and taking the odd line of cocaine. I know its a bad idea but I'm one then that thinks to hell with it I'll be okay but the last 3 weeks its all caught up with me and i feel like crap. I know im okay with a few drinks its just when i go over the top and start taking drugs it comes back to haunt me. 

[sunnysideup69]

Yep, exactly. Gotta look after that brain and nervous system ...

 

[Tommy]

Hi im looking for some advice, I've been very up and sown the last few weeks. I am currently on 10mg citalopram after dropping from 20mg fast taper back in july. I c/t completely off citalopram back in 2018 and had withdrawals so thats why i went back on the medication. Im currently suffering anxiety, depression, brain fog, concentration problems, tiredness, fatigue, intrusive thoughts. I was considering doing a slow 10% taper but i don't think now is the right time. It does get me down that i can't seem to get off these tablets. Sometimes i feel like giving up tbh. Am i still withdrawing or have i destabilised? Does anyone have some advice. Thanks

[Tommy]

Hello is there any moderators around today? 

[sunnysideup69]

Hi Tommy, am not a moderator, but I'm sure one will be along soon to help you. 

I've also fast tapered Citalopram in the past and had very similar symptoms to yourself, which have taken a while to creep up on me.

20mg to 10mg is a big drop....I also did that the first time round of taking Cit, and it destabilised me for a good five months that time.

 

Anyway, am sure you'll get an answer soon, hold on there.

[Gridley]

6 hours ago, Tommy said:

I was considering doing a slow 10% taper but i don't think now is the right time. It does get me down that i can't seem to get off these tablets.

 

The symptoms you're experiencing are typical withdrawal symptoms stemming from your large drop from 20mg to 10mg.

I agree that this isn't the time to taper.  Based on the symptoms you describe your central nervous system is destabilized, causing the symptoms.  

 

What is withdrawal syndrome.

 

Glenmullen’s withdrawal symptom list.

 

When we take medications, the CNS (central nervous system) responds by making changes over the months and years we take the drug(s). When the medication is discontinued, the CNS has to undo all the changes it made. Rebuilding the neurotransmitter production and reactivating the receptor and transporter cells takes time -- during that rebuilding process symptoms occur.  

 

These explain it really well:

 

Video:  Healing From Antidepressants - Patterns of Recovery

 

   On 8/30/2011 at 2:28 PM,  Rhiannon said: 

When we stop taking the drug, we have a brain that has designed itself so that it works in the presence of the drug; now it can't work properly without the drug because it's designed itself so that the drug is part of its chemistry and structure. It's like a plant that has grown on a trellis; you can't just yank out the trellis and expect the plant to be okay. When the drug is removed, the remodeling process has to take place in reverse. SO--it's not a matter of just getting the drug out of your system and moving on. If it were that simple, none of us would be here. It's a matter of, as I describe it, having to grow a new brain. I believe this growing-a-new-brain happens throughout the taper process if the taper is slow enough. (If it's too fast, then there's not a lot of time for actually rebalancing things, and basically the brain is just pedaling fast trying to keep us alive.) It also continues to happen, probably for longer than the symptoms actually last, throughout the time of recovery after we are completely off the drug, which is why recovery takes so long.

 

I know you've been holding for some 9 months, but it looks like a longer hold would be the best idea until your system stabilizes.

 

Are your symptoms pretty much the same every day or do they very quite a bit?  Also, how bad are the symptoms?

 

I wouldn't recommend an updose this far out as that could be risky and make things worse.

 

You'll get off these drugs.  You just need to hold longer, stabilize and then taper at 10% or perhaps slower.

 

What is withdrawal syndrome.

 

Daily Checklist of Antidepressant Withdrawal Symptoms (PDF)

 

We strongly recommend using non-drug methods to cope with withdrawal.  Take a look at the links in the following link and see which you think might be of benefit to you.

 

Non-drug techniques to cope

 

The restorative yoga posture in the following link has been helpful to me in calming anxiety.

 

10 minute Restorative Yoga for Relaxation | Up the wall

 

We don't recommend a lot of supplements on SA, as many members report being sensitive to them due to our over-reactive nervous systems, but two supplements that we do recommend are magnesium and omega 3 (fish oil). Many people find these to be calming to the nervous system. 

 

Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker 

 

Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil) 

 

Add in one at a time and at a low dose in case you do experience problems.

 

 

[Tommy]

Thanks gridley, it seems like i have a few good weeks then a few bad weeks. The past 2 weeks I've had a few hours in the day when i feel just about ok then others when i feel awful. Its like I've been taken over and its out of my control. I was having palpitations everday but they went about 6 weeks ago. I'm now having more mental side effects such as racing thoughts and over analysing everything to with antidepressants. I've read a lot about how they can effect people and peoples stories which can be really scarey and it can make my anxiety worse and then makes me feel depressed. I definitely think the drug has pooped out now as I've been on it for 7 years. On and off.

I do have a physical job which I'm managing but i feel exhausted some days. I do enjoy going to the gym and swimming which clears my head but I've even found that to be really tiring lately. 

I suppose I'm lucky in one way though as i have only taken this ine drug and i know a lot of people on here have taken multiple ones. I do keep hope because without that we have nothing. 

[Gridley]

2 minutes ago, Tommy said:

it seems like i have a few good weeks then a few bad weeks.

It sounds as if you're not doing too badly, all things considered.  Yes, you're fortunate to have taken only the one drug.  That makes everything a lot simpler.

 

The few good weeks and few bad weeks is what we call windows and waves.

 

The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

I'm trying to determine if you're ready to taper.  Generally, being stabilized is when you are ready to taper again.  Please read the following definition of stabilized written by one of our moderators, Brassmonkey:

 

WHAT IS STABILIZED? 

Yes, it is a good idea to be stabilized before doing a taper.  Stability is not the absence of WD symptoms, but rather a steady state of feeling crappy without any major swings either direction.  The steady state of feeling bad is what establishes your baseline, referred to as WDnormal.  It can take several months to determine your average level of symptoms.

 

Does this describe your situation?

 

 

[Tommy]

I have been considering a 10% taper probably for 6 months but keep on putting it off because i don't want to endure the withdrawals i had 18 months ago when i tapered far too fast. Its always in the back of my mind. I suppose i am wdnormal to some degree now but will i make things worse or better if i start a taper? I want it to run as smoothly as possible when i do taper. 

[nick1990]

Hey Tommy , i would wait it out a little longer if possible . Best to be as stable as possible before resuming tapering. It can make the entire process a lot smoother. You may even want to consider the 5% taper to see where you’re at  

 

cheers , 

Nick 

[Altostrata]

Hello, Tommmy. I combined your Introductions topics. Only one Introductions topic to a member.

 

On 12/21/2019 at 9:41 AM, Tommy said:

Yes you are bang on with that. I stabalised quite well after my drop from 20mg citalopram to 10mg then the last few months I've been hitting the alcohol and taking the odd line of cocaine. I know its a bad idea but I'm one then that thinks to hell with it I'll be okay but the last 3 weeks its all caught up with me and i feel like crap. I know im okay with a few drinks its just when i go over the top and start taking drugs it comes back to haunt me. 

 

On 12/21/2019 at 1:42 AM, Tommy said:

I've been up and down in that time but its provably not helped that I've been drinking (at weekends) and taking the odd recreational drug here and there. I am still holding on 10 mg of citalopram which I'm going to slow taper when i feel I've stabalised.

 

You are destabilizing your nervous system further with your drinking and recreational drug use.

 

To answer your question about statistics: Your chances of going off citalopram easily are considerably lessened as you've been beating up your nervous system and it's already destabilized. You're making your own symptoms as it is.

 

You probably would stabilize on 10mg citalopram if you stopped monkeying around. If you want to get serious about tapering, you'll have to stop partying and let your nervous system settle down. Like, zero drinks. None.

 

Please let us know when this happens. There's nothing we can do to support you if you continue to injure yourself.

[sunnysideup69]

16 hours ago, Tommy said:

 Am i still withdrawing or have i destabilised? Does anyone have some advice. Thanks

Hi @Tommy, chatted to you before, I think that you dropped too much of the Citalopram in conjunction with this:

 

On 12/21/2019 at 5:41 PM, Tommy said:

Yes you are bang on with that. I stabalised quite well after my drop from 20mg citalopram to 10mg then the last few months I've been hitting the alcohol and taking the odd line of cocaine. I know its a bad idea but I'm one then that thinks to hell with it I'll be okay but the last 3 weeks its all caught up with me and i feel like crap. I know im okay with a few drinks its just when i go over the top and start taking drugs it comes back to haunt me. 

 

As I said to you before,  I've done pretty much the same thing as you, same antidep.....and after a too fast taper. These things combined are the source of the problem and now you have to wait it out. I just noticed @Altostratas post above, I have to say, thereis no option but to follow that advice if you want to get well......

 

 

Embarrassingly, I've made the same MDMA mistake three times in my Citalopram history. The trigger is always alcohol, you have a drink and then make a misjudgement. So the alcohol really does have to go if you are serious about doing this.

 

I'm now teetotal. Absolutely zero alcohol and as for anything else, that's a given, too. It's a part of my past to which I'm not returning.

I've struggled for a year and a half because of all the prior mucking around with recreational drug blips and dose changes and it's just not worth it....for what? For a few hours of being high? I'd rather have a life of feeling calm and stable.

Hope this doesn't sound preachy, wanted to share what I've experienced as I've made the same errors. It's up to you, ultimately. I hope you choose calm and stability.

[Tommy]

Thanks guys. I will take your comments into consideration. I am done with the partying and drugs 100%. I've been trying to live that life for a far too long. As for the drinking that will be a quite hard for me to stop completely. Its a massive culture thing where I'm from, whether its going to the pub have a few beers watching the football or going for a meal and having a few glasses of wine etc. Its seems to be more when i have a heavy night i destabilize rather than a few drinks relaxing.

Sunnusideup69 how do you feel now you've been sober off the drugs and alcohol?

 

[sunnysideup69]

5 minutes ago, Tommy said:

Thanks guys. I will take your comments into consideration. I am done with the partying and drugs 100%. I've been trying to live that life for a far too long. As for the drinking that will be a quite hard for me to stop completely. Its a massive culture thing where I'm from, whether its going to the pub have a few beers watching the football or going for a meal and having a few glasses of wine etc. Its seems to be more when i have a heavy night i destabilize rather than a few drinks relaxing.

Sunnusideup69 how do you feel now you've been sober off the drugs and alcohol?

 

Well, the drugs were a bit of a midlife crisis in 2017/18......I'm now 50. I was a bit of an MDMA user in my late twenties and early thirties, it's true....and it wasn't long after that, that I had my first ever episode of 'anxiety and depression', incidentally a year after stopping all MDMA use, at the age of 33....but triggered by a binge drinking episode. I think now that basically, I was already going through windows and waves from about 3 years of fairly hard partying. 

 

I've basically never been a massive drinker, but for some reason, when I started a too fast taper of Citalopram at end of 2016/beginning of 2017, I really started craving alcohol. I didn't drink much, but it was certainly more regular, a couple of times a week. I didn't think it was hurting me, either, but I now see it was one of the things that lead to me crashing badly in 2018.

 

I've not had any alcohol since April 2019 but unfortunately I did some legal drug updosing/switching which destabilised me a bit further. So there have been too many changes to tell you yet the effects of purely not drinking, as that has been compromised by the antidepressant changes I made. However, I do know that I tried just a glass of wine, one, in October 2018/ February 2019 and both times, about four days later, I went crashing into a wave.

 

I'll tell you something though. Having quit alcohol, I actually don't miss it at all. It's a habit. We become accustomed to thinking we need it to have a good time and we don't.

 

The thing in WD also is, at first you CAN tolerate certain things, most likely. In 2017, I was not really feeling like I was affected by just a few drinks. Now, I can't tolerate it at all. It's much better if you stop before you get to that point.

[Tommy]

Titled:  Does tapering get harder?

 

Im going to start tapering my citalopram when i feel stabilized. Currently taking 10 mg and holding. Been up and down from 20 to 10 a few times and came off completely fast taper 2 years ago which didn't go well and was hell at times so reinstated to 20 mg and then came back down to 10 mg july. Found SA forum in august. Currently having waves and windows. Some days good. Somes days bad. Trying to just get on with it. 

Obviously i see a lot of people doing the slow tapers im wondering in general when you taper (10%) does this process get harder as you get into smaller doses or easier? (In terms of symptoms and the severity of them) and also does this theory have a good success rate to get off these drugs? Im not being negative in any way when i ask these questions im generally interested and just want to know if its worth trying!!! Thanks 

Edited January 25, 2020 by manymoretodays
Title added, moved from tapering forum, bolded main question asked

[Tommy]

Hey, 

Just wondering if anyone can help!! People who are currently tapering or have completely tapered off the meds how successful is the slow tapering (10%) theory? Does it get harder as you get into the smaller doses in terms of symptoms and the severity of them or does it get easier? Generally interested, no negativity just want know if its worth my while. Thanks

[lxjuice]

Depends. Diazepam got easier the lower I went. Trazodone got harder. Don't know what quetiapine will do but I imagine more similar to trazodone than quetiapine. If you want better advice then we need more info.

[Tommy]

Currently taking 10mg citalopram and holding until i stabalise. Been up and down from 20mg to 10mg to 0mg back up to 20mg a few times. Been on and off citalopram for 7 years. CT and fast tapered a few times on doctors advice which as you know makes things worse. Then found this forum. Only ever taken citalopram. Wont touch anything else now.