Vegalia: Escitalopram and Lysanxia ( prazepam)

[Vegalia]

52 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

Several things could be going on: 1) venlafaxine withdrawal syndrome incompletely masked by escilatopram and prazepam; 2) failed substitution of prazepam for Xanax; 3) adverse reaction (stomach burning) to prazepam; 4) onset of stomach burning coincides with start of prazepam in October, could be from switch from clotiazépam to prazepam.; 5) l-tryptophan can cause heartburn and stomach upset.

 

Vegalia has been disinclined to try citalopram or fluoxetine instead of escilatopram, or to stop the tryptophan. Moving the escilatopram dose seems to show it is not responsible for the burning stomach symptom, but it may cause other symptoms. She does not seem to get stomach upset after taking tryptophan at night; it has a half-life of only a couple of hours so is unlikely to be causing symptoms the next day. Still, it is a confounding factor.

 

I have found Vegalia's daily notes difficult to interpret. Perhaps our French speakers can translate or explain questions to Vegalia and translate or explain her responses in English.

 

Here are my outstanding questions:

 

- Does the stomach-burning get worse after she takes escilatopram or prazepam each day?

 

 

- What cocktail was Vegalia taking in April, May, June? Was she taking sertraline and Xanax? She started escilatopram July 15 and clotiazépam August 28.

 

- How did she feel while she was taking clotiazépam?

 

- Why did she switch from clotiazépam to prazepam October 4?

 

- What benefit does Vegalia get from tryptophan?

Hello, 

 

My english is a problem... Sorry... I try to do my best. 

 

I started prazepam October 2018, not 2019.. I had burnings in stomach one year later October 2019. 

I wanted to stop L-tryptophan since several months, but have followed advices here. 

-->end July 2018 xanax, end August 2018 : clotiazepam, 4 October 2018 : prazepam and always prazepam since 4 October 2018. 

 

 

Does the stomach-burning get worse after she takes escilatopram or prazepam each day?

Yes. 

 

 

What cocktail was Vegalia taking in April, May, June? Was she taking sertraline and Xanax? She started escilatopram July 15 and clotiazépam August 28.

Sertraline 25 mg and prazepam. I stopped to taper sertraline and tapered prazepam. 

 

 

How did she feel while she was taking clotiazépam?

better on beginning immediately.; Clotiazepam 5 mg = 1 mg xanax. Double that I had. At this time I took benzo only since one month! Dose x 4 in one month by the doctors... 

 

 

 

Why did she switch from clotiazépam to prazepam October 4?

Half life of 4 hour... I become quickly in tolerance, so  switched to prazepam to have long half life benzo to not updose Clotiazepam and to taper benzo. Advice of French forum. But in 2018.

 

 

- What benefit does Veagalia get from tryptophan?

 

I have no idea... 

 

sorry, I thought to have explain all this things in details several times, but it is really a problem with my english... 

 

Thank you Altostrata. 

 

 

[Altostrata]

Vegalia, does the stomach-burning increase

 

- after you take each dose of escilatopram? Has this changed since you moved the time of the escilatopram dose?

- after you take each dose of prazepam?

 

Have you tried taking either of these drugs with food?

 

Is it possible the stomach-burning is from something else, such as drinking coffee?

 

3 hours ago, Vegalia said:

I felt me so good April, may, June... Not perfect but so much better! 

 

This would be April, May, June of 2019, correct? You were taking sertraline and prazepam, why did you substitute escilatopram for sertaline?

 

In your signature, please add the years of the switches from one drug to another.

[Vegalia]

24 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

Vegalia, does the stomach-burning increase

 

- after you take each dose of escilatopram? Has this changed since you moved the time of the escilatopram dose?

- after you take each dose of prazepam?

 

Have you tried taking either of these drugs with food?

 

Is it possible the stomach-burning is from something else, such as drinking coffee?

 

 

This would be April, May, June of 2019, correct? You were taking sertraline and prazepam, why did you substitute escilatopram for sertaline?

 

In your signature, please add the years of the switches from one drug to another.

"Vegalia, does the stomach-burning increase

 

- after you take each dose of escilatopram? Yes 

Has this changed since you moved the time of the escilatopram dose? Yes I think after my move from 8.30 to noon. I took escitalopram before to eat. 

 

- after you take each dose of prazepam? Yes. 

IT burns more after escitalopram than prazepam. 

 

*Have you tried taking either of these drugs with food?

Yes. I do it since several weeks. 

 

*Is it possible the stomach-burning is from something else, such as drinking coffee?

I don't drink coffee anymore since... 2 month maybe. Before just a little cup a day. 

I take care of what I eat or drink. Something bad is that I smoke. But it doesn't burned me. And now it increase burning a little. I try to less smoke but not easy. 

 

*This would be April, May, June of 2019, correct?

Yes

 

You were taking sertraline and prazepam, why did you substitute escilatopram for sertaline?

 

I Sayed it one moment please I will find it. 

 

 

 

[Vegalia]

On 12/20/2019 at 8:37 AM, Vegalia said:

In France, you can only find Sertraline in capsules and the powder is very thin so you can't use a précision scale.

I tried To titrage it in water, but the powder did not dilute Well, and most of all it has burned my digestive system in 3 days.

My psychiatrist didn't want To prescribe me for doses prepared by pharmacist smaller of 1 mg, so I couldn't control precises changes of doses. 

That is why a switch has been done To liquid Escitalopram. However , equivalencies between these 2 drugs are not precise. 

 

I started with 5mg and was feeling very angry with a lot of restlessness. So I reduced To 4mg.

This restlessness and angry feelings became more and more intense,l. So I thought hold so long I could and reduce 0,5 mg if it was to hard. But...I followed French forum advice : tappered faster, "no displaced prudence!" It was probably too fast, but my Nervosity was  hard To control,  and it decreased everytime I tappered.

 

I think the equivalency between the 2 drugs wasn't the good one for me. This is why I think it is not good To updose To 5mg. 

 

My situation  is very complicated and now I know I should have reduced the Ad's dose as soon as I started To take it, and do it fast. I could feel it, But everybody around me was telling me To keep the AD to tapper the benzo first...

I explained it several months ago but my english.. .Erell translated and posted it 3 months ago. 

I modify this translation to be more precise. 

 

 

I wanted to try to taper sertraline mg to mg very slowly, because I was afraid with switch but in the same time afraid to taper more than 10℅ current dose. 

Someone in French forum asked me : why not switch with Fluoxetine? 

I was afraid to be aggressive with Fluoxetine and that the long half life would be a problem with my reaction of Nervosity with AD... I asked advice of my psychiatrist but no Sayed her I was afraid to be aggressive but she didn't want to prescribe me Fluoxetine. She wanted laroxyl. 

I choose escitalopram and managed to have a prescription. Bad idea... 

 

*In your signature, please add the years of the switches from one drug to another.

 

I tried to do it but didn't managed with my phone. I try to do it tomorrow again.

 

Thank you

 

Vega

Edited January 1, 2020 by Vegalia
Complement

[Vegalia]

29 August 2018 : Venlafaxine 75 XR 19 september : 37,5, 4 october : 75, 18 octobre  Venlafaxine 37,5 +Sertraline 25,1 november : Sertraline 50, 27 November: 40, 26 december : 36

24 January 2019 : 32 , 23 February : 29, 23 March : 27, 19 april: 25 until 14 July. 

15 July :Escitalopram: 5, 20 July : 4, 22 July: 3,25, 23 july: 2,5, 25 july: 2,25, 8 August : 2, 16 August: 1,75, 20 August: 1,50, 12 september :1,25, 24 september :1,38, 28 septembre: 1,50 

 

29 july 2018 : xanax 0,125 x 2,12 August : 0,25 x 2, 28 August : clotiazépam 5x2, 4 October : Prazepam : 5-5-7,5 to 3,5-3,5 -6,5, 25 october : 10x3, 21 november: 9,5 x3, 10 décember : 2% / 21d = 18 February 2019 : 8,75x3, 30 march : 7,83 x3, 11 may 7,5x3. 31 july 5,145 x3 . 2% / 21 d and 2 x 3% / 7d = 26 september : 4, 645x3, 27 september : 4,75x3 

 

Lithium citrate 1 mg stopped 13 november 2019, L-tryptophan 225 mg -->140 mg courant.

 

--> is it a better signature? 

 

About lithium citrate : 1 mg décember 2018 to April 2019 and stopped : no problem. 

 

About L-tryptophan : 225 mg from middle décember 2018 to February 2019, tapered in one week : no problem. Took again March to 19 April 2019 then tapered in one week : no problem. 

I felt no differences if I took citrate lithium and L-tryptophan or not. In French forum it was Sayed me that I had to take these 2 complement with insistence because my antidepressant taper was fast and if  didn't take it I will have too much symptoms and will failed my taper... 

-->sertraline 50 mg, 40 mg (=20%), 36 mg = 10 ℅, 32 mg = +/- 11℅, 29 mg = +/- 7℅, 25 mg = +/- 7℅.

 

I took citrate lithium and L-tryptophan again on July 2019.

 

Vega

 

 

[Vegalia]

Good morning, 

 

1 January 2020 : L-tryptophan +/- 140 mg 

 

 

Sleep +/- 1 am to 5.am. Wake full of aches and burning in all body : 9/10. Restlessness 8/10, despair because of aches. 

6.30 am : nausea, stomach burning 8/10.I'm cold. . I want to die because of my physical aches. 

 

8.am : get up, muscles a little bit less contracted 7/10, less nausea, stomach less burning. 

 

8.30 am : escitalopram 1,5mg, stomach burning increase

 

9.am : prazepam 4,75 mg, stomach and bowel always burning 

 

10. am : aches at 9/10, a lot of tension in head and headache. 

 

Noon : took 1 mg paracetamol. 

 

12.30 pm : eat, stomach less burning.

 

3.pm : prazepam 4,75 mg, stomach burning more. Aches, contractions of body 8/10. Aches are essentially : up of the back, neck, shoulders, jaw muscle. 

 

4.30 pm : Hypnosis in bed, feel asleep, wake at 6 pm with a pic of anxiety, return of aches at 9/10 

 

8.pm : eat. 

 

9.pm: prazepam 4,75 mg : stomach burning not a lot. 

 

10 pm : tension and sensation of tremor in head : 8/10. Aches, contractions and burning of body 9/10

 

Midnight: L-tryptophan140 mg, took paracetamol 1 mg, go to bed : aches of body and head 8/10, feel me hyper vigilant. 

 

 Sleep 1 am to 5 am. Wake with a lot of restlessness 8/10. Internal Akathisy. I'm afraid.... 

 

. Yesterday : anxiety, depression, restlessness : 3-5.with several pic of restlessness at 7/10.. A lot of sadness with my aches. It is burning so hard!!! Despair because of my aches. 

I spent a lot of time with my phone and on evening too until midnight to answer here. 

 

 

Cold and chills almost all day. 

Always a weakness with muscles of legs. 

Sensibility with light and noises 

Very hard contractions of muscles of jaw, shoulders, neck, up of back. 

Arms and legs a little bit less burning.

 

Vega. 

[Erell]

Hi, 

 

I'm sorry I have not been around a lot these past few days. I'm glad to help with translation or understanding if needed.

As Vegalia has answered your questions Altostrata, I'm not sure how I can help. Would you be ok to tell us what seems unclear in Vegalia story? And then, I would work with Vegalia to present you a clear answer.

 

 

[Vegalia]

27 minutes ago, Erell said:

Hi, 

 

I'm sorry I have not been around a lot these past few days. I'm glad to help with translation or understanding if needed.

As Vegalia has answered your questions Altostrata, I'm not sure how I can help. Would you be ok to tell us what seems unclear in Vegalia story? And then, I would work with Vegalia to present you a clear answer.

 

 

Hi Erell, 

 

Thank you so much. 

 

Kisses

 

Vega

[Altostrata]

21 hours ago, Vegalia said:

- after you take each dose of escilatopram? Yes 

Has this changed since you moved the time of the escilatopram dose? Yes I think after my move from 8.30 to noon. I took escitalopram before to eat. 

 

 

What was the change in your symptom pattern?

 

How often do you have a cigarette? Are you smoking a cigarette each time you take escilatopram or prazepam?

 

https://badgut.org/information-centre/a-z-digestive-topics/smoking-and-the-digestive-tract/

 

Quote

 

Smoking has harmful effects on all parts of the digestive system, contributing to common disorders such as heartburn and peptic ulcers. It also increases the risk of Crohn’s disease and possibly gallstones. Smoking seems to affect the liver too, by changing the way it handles drugs and alcohol. In fact, there seems to be enough evidence to stop smoking solely because of digestive distress.

 

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3711704/

 

Quote

 

Cigarette smoking has deleterious effects on the musculo-skeletal system. The loss of bone mineral content and increased incidence of fractures are the best known negative consequences. The pathogenesis is complex, due to direct toxic effects on osteoblasts/osteoclasts activity of nicotine, and indirect actions on sex and adrenocortical hormones, vitamin D, intestinal calcium absorption, vessels and oxygen supply. Smoking may favour the onset or aggravate the progression of rheumatoid arthritis and back pain. Negative influences have been observed on muscle and on tendons.

 

 

https://health.clevelandclinic.org/why-smoking-will-worsen-your-chronic-pain/

 

Quote

Smokers are nearly three times as likely to get lower back pain. Smoking may aggravate abdominal pain and joint pain, as well. In fact, smoking may increase pain sensitivity in general.

 

 

Perhaps you should gradually reduce your cigarette smoking to stop it entirely.

[Vegalia]

Hello @Altostrata

 

 

What was the change in your symptom pattern?

 

I'm not sure to understand, sorry. 

Stomach burned me after this change of schedule more and more. 

 

I know cigarette is bad. I smoke : +/- 15 cigarettes) a day but not at the same moment I take drug most of the time. 

 

Cigarette can not explain my problems but is it sure it makes them worse. 

 

Thank you. Altostrata. 

 

@Erell,  s' il te plaît, est ce que tu voudrais bien vérifier que j'ai tout compris, mais je pense que oui. 

Merci.

 

Vega

 

[Altostrata]

Vegalia, you say your symptom pattern changed after you moved escilatopram to the morning. I need to know how your symptom pattern changed @Erell

[Vegalia]

Bonjour, 

 

Je vais parler en français, si quelqu'un peut traduire j'en serais reconnaissante.

 

En réalité, les symptômes sont très fluctuants dans le temps, par vagues, mais vagues par symptômes indépendamment les uns des autres  Ils sont également très fluctuants au sein d'une même journée. 

Ceci fait que déterminer un schéma est très compliqué. 

 

Une constante depuis plusieurs mois : généralement je me sens un peu mieux le soir. Ceci n'a pas changé. 

 

Ce que j'essayais d'expliquer à Altostrata :

Quand je suis arrivée sur le  Forum, je prenais mon AD à 8h30 le matin juste après le petit déjeuner. J'ai toujours pris les AD à cette heure ci. 

Altostrata m'a demandé de déplacer L'escitalopram progressivement à midi pour séparer les prises de benzo et dAD pour mieux voir comment chaque médicament agissait pour avoir un schéma, ce que j'ai fait. À ce moment là j'ai donc pris l'AD sans rien manger avant. Et dans le temps je peux faire un lien avec le début des brûlures d'estomac. 

 

Récemment il m'a été demandé de redeplacer mon AD à 8h30 le matin. Suite à ce changement je n'ai pas vraiment de terminé de changement de schéma. Tout ce que je peux dire c'est que les contractions musculaires se sont fortement accentuées ainsi que les brûlures qui y sont associées ( je parle bien des brûlures profondes du dos, de la nuque) avec  accentuation des brûlures dans les bras. Également la tension et les tremblements dans la tête se sont accentués. Nouveau symptôme depuis une semaine : contractions des muscles de la mâchoire sans forcément de bruxisme associé au même moment. 

 

Depuis deux jours, les douleurs musculaires et brûlures associées ont un petit peu diminué. 

 

J'ai mes règles ce matin, le SPM pourrait-il jouer aussi ? 

 

Je sais que ceci n'est pas très clair mais les symptômes fluctuent constamment. 

 

Par ailleurs, j'ai cessé de diminuer le l-trypophane car ceci m'a été conseillé pour ces raisons : diminué trop tôt après les granions de lithium et trop vite : ceci pourrait avoir un impact sur mon système nerveux et le l-trypophane agit sur la sérotonine. 

J'ai suivi les conseils. Cependant je ne crois pas trop à un grand bouleversement dû à l'arret très très progressif des granions de lithium qui n'ont rien à voir avec le lithium prescrit sur ordonnance, peut-être que je me trompe mais c'est mon avis.

 

Quant au xanax je n'en ai pris qu'un mois et le clotiazepam un mois et une semaine. Je n'avais jamais pris de benzo avant. 

J'ai tenté de réduire deux fois xanax, une fois clotiazepam, une autre fois prazepam trop rapidement comme je l'ai précédemment détaillé mais tout ceci remonte à plus d'un an. 

 

Pour la cigarette, je sais que je devrais réduire même arrêter mais c'est très dur... Je fume des roulées :j'ai rajouté des filtres et essaie de les rouler plus fines

C'est déjà très dur de ne plus boire de café encore. Ces addictions sont maudites 

 

Merci @Erell si tu peux expliquer cela. Tu peux résumer si tu le souhaites. 

 

Bisous

 

Vega. 

 

[Vegalia]

14 hours ago, Altostrata said:

Vegalia, you say your symptom pattern changed after you moved escilatopram to the morning. I need to know how your symptom pattern changed @Erell

Hello @Altostrata, 

 

I have had help to translate : 

 

 

In reality, the symptoms are very fluctuating over time, in waves, but the waves by symptoms are each other they are also very fluctuating within the same day. 

 

This makes determining a pattern very complicated. 

 

A constant for several months : generally I feel a little better in the evening. This has not changed. 

 

 

What I was trying to explain to Altostrata :

 

When I arrived on the Forum, I was picking up my AD at 8: 30 in the morning just after breakfast. I've always taken AD'S at this hour. 

 

Altostrata asked me to move the escitalopram gradually to noon to separate the benzo and DAD shots to better see how each drug worked to have a pattern, which I did. At that time I took the AD without eating anything before. And in time I can relate to the onset of heartburn. 

 

 

Recently I was asked to relocate my AD at 8: 30 in the morning. Following this change I did not really complete the change of scheme. All I can say is that the muscular contractions are strongly accentuated as well as the burns associated with them (I am talking about the deep burns of the back, of the nape of the neck) with the accentuation of the burns in the arms. Also the tension and tremors in the head have increased. New symptom since a week: contractions of the muscles of the jaw without necessarily of bruxim Associated at the same time. 

 

 

Over the past two days, muscle aches and associated Burns have decreased slightly. 

 

I have my period this morning, could the SPM play too? 

 

I know this is not very clear but the symptoms fluctuate constantly. 

 

 

On the other hand, I stopped decreasing l-trypophan because this was advised for these reasons: decreased too soon after the lithium granions and too fast: this could have an impact on my nervous system and l-trypophan acts on serotonin. 

 

I followed the advice. However, I do not believe in a great upheaval due to the very very progressive stoppage of lithium granions which have nothing to do with the prescription lithium, perhaps I am wrong but that is my opinion.

 

 

As for the xanax, I only took a month and the clotiazepam a month and a week. I've never used benzo before. 

 

I tried to reduce the xanax twice, once the clotiazepam, another time the prazepam too quickly as I have already detailed but all this goes back more than a year. 

 

 

For the cigarette, I know I should reduce even stop but it is very hard ... I smoke rolls: I have added filters and try to roll them thinner

 

It's hard enough not drinking coffee again. These addictions are cursed

 

Vega

Edited January 3, 2020 by Sassenach
added @ to names

[Erell]

13 hours ago, Altostrata said:

Vegalia, you say your symptom pattern changed after you moved escilatopram to the morning. I need to know how your symptom pattern changed @Erell

 vegalia, peux-tu expliquer ce qui te fait dire que ton schéma de symptômes a évolué lorsque tu as déplacé ta dose?

 

(Vegalia, can you explain us what made you say that your symptoms pattern changed after you moved your dose to the morning?)

[Vegalia]

1 hour ago, Erell said:

 vegalia, peux-tu expliquer ce qui te fait dire que ton schéma de symptômes a évolué lorsque tu as déplacé ta dose?

 

(Vegalia, can you explain us what made you say that your symptoms pattern changed after you moved your dose to the morning?)

Coucou, 

 

J'ai compris mais je n'ai pas de schéma de symptômes régulier. 

 

J'ai expliqué les choses comme je pouvais... 

 

J'ai oublié de mentionner un retour récent de symptômes qui avaient disparu ou beaucoup réduit : sensibilité aux bruits et à la lumière, faiblesse musculaire des jambes, bruxisme, problèmes visuels, dépression.

L'agitation voire l'acathisie interne ont eu tendance à revenir aussi, mais tout cela pourrait être une vague? Je ne sais pas... 

 

Quant aux horaires des symptômes, ils restent variables... sans modification évidente en rapport avec les changements d'horaire de prise d'escitalopram. 

J'ai moins de brouillard dans la tête cependant, moins de problèmes d'equilibre et moins de difficultés d'elocution. 

Je ne sais pas quoi dire de plus et sûrement tout cela n'aide pas... 

 

La seule chose : c'est les brûlures d'estomac qui sont arrivées après le passage de 8h30 à midi de l'escitalopram. 

 

Merci

 

Vega 

[Vegalia]

2 January 2020 : L-tryptophan +/- 140 mg 

 

Sleep 1 am to 5 am. Wake with a lot of restlessness 8/10. Internal Akathisy. I'm afraid.... Legs burning a little, stomach burning 6/10, neck and up of back contracted and burning 7/10.

 

8.am : get up, less nausea, stomach less burning. 

 

8.30 am : escitalopram 1,5mg, stomach burning increase

 

9.am : prazepam 4,75 mg, stomach and bowel always burning 

 

10. am : restlessness 5/10, anxiety 7-8/10, depression 6/10.

 

12.30 pm : eat, stomach less burning.

 

3.pm : prazepam 4,75 mg, stomach burning more. Aches, contractions of body 6-7/ 10. Aches are essentially : up of the back, neck, shoulders, jaw muscle. 

4.30 pm : Hypnosis 

 

8.pm : eat. 

 

9.pm: prazepam 4,75 mg : stomach burning not a lot. Anxiety : 0, depression 5, restlessness 1-2.

10 pm : tension and sensation of tremor in head , pulsations and little tremors of lips and tongue. 

11.30 pm ; L-tryptophan140 mg, took paracetamol 1 mg, go to bed : feel me not so bad. 

 

Sleep from 12.30 pm to 6 am.

 

Cold and chills almost all day. 

Always a weakness with muscles of legs. 

Sensibility with light and noises 

Contractions of muscles of jaw, shoulders, neck, up of back and burnings a little less hard. 

Arms and legs a little bit less burning.

 

Vega

[Erell]

7 hours ago, Vegalia said:

Coucou, 

 

J'ai compris mais je n'ai pas de schéma de symptômes régulier. 

 

J'ai expliqué les choses comme je pouvais... 

 

J'ai oublié de mentionner un retour récent de symptômes qui avaient disparu ou beaucoup réduit : sensibilité aux bruits et à la lumière, faiblesse musculaire des jambes, bruxisme, problèmes visuels, dépression.

L'agitation voire l'acathisie interne ont eu tendance à revenir aussi, mais tout cela pourrait être une vague? Je ne sais pas... 

 

Quant aux horaires des symptômes, ils restent variables... sans modification évidente en rapport avec les changements d'horaire de prise d'escitalopram. 

J'ai moins de brouillard dans la tête cependant, moins de problèmes d'equilibre et moins de difficultés d'elocution. 

Je ne sais pas quoi dire de plus et sûrement tout cela n'aide pas... 

 

La seule chose : c'est les brûlures d'estomac qui sont arrivées après le passage de 8h30 à midi de l'escitalopram. 

 

Merci

 

Vega 

 

Translation in english : 

 

"I understood but I don't have any specific pattern with my symptoms.

I only explain things as best as I can..

 

I forgot to mention that some symptoms are back lately, whereas they had nearly disappeared  : sensitivity to noises and lights, muscular weakness in legs, bruxism, visual issues, depressed feelings.

Internal restlessness seems to come back too, but all this could be a wave? I don't know...

 

Regarding the time of the day when the symptoms come, it depends..and there is no obvious link with the time changes of the dose.

 

However, I have less brain fog, less equilibrium issues, and less elocution issues.

 

I don't know what to add, and maybe this doesn't help...

 

But : stomach burns happened after I moved my escitalopram dose from 8.30 am to noon.

 

Thank you

[Vegalia]

Good morning, 

 

3 January 2020 : L-tryptophan +/- 140 mg 

 

Sleep from 12.30 pm to 6 am. Anxiety 6/10. Stomach burns a little. Legs burns a little. Contractions and burning  of the neck, shoulders, up of the back 5/10.

 

7.30 am : get up, nausea

 

8.30 am : escitalopram 1,5mg, stomach buring increase. 

 

9.am : prazepam 4,75 mg, stomach burning increas a little. Intrusive ideas. 

 

10. am : restlessness 5/10, anxiety 2/10, depression 6/10.

 

12.30 pm : eat, stomach less burning

 

3.pm : prazepam 4,75 mg, stomach burning more. Aches, contractions of body 5/ 10. Aches are essentially : up of the back, neck, shoulders, jaw muscle. 

 

5 pm : Hypnosis 

 

7.30.pm : eat. 

 

8. pm : restlessness 8-9, internal Akathisy., anxiety 5, depression 6, intrusive idea. 

 

9.pm: prazepam 4,75 mg : stomach burning not a lot. Anxiety : 0, depression 5, restlessness 1-2.

10 pm : tension and sensation of tremor in head , pulsations and little tremors of lips and tongue. 

11.30 pm ; L-tryptophan140 mg, go to bed : feel me not so bad. 

 

Sleep 12.30 am to 6 am. No hard neuro-emotion. Headache and nap of neck ache 8-9/10. Contractions of muscle of jaw and up of the back 7/10. Legs and arms burning 5/10.

 

Yesterday:

Cold and chills:not a lot. 

Always a weakness with muscles of legs but only on evening

Sensibility with light and noises 

Contractions of muscles of jaw, shoulders, neck, up of back and burnings a little less hard. - 25%

Stomach a little less burning. 

Arms and legs a little bit less burning.

Periods. 

 

Vega

[Vegalia]

Hello, 

 

Here are my worst contractions and hard burning and up until temples. If it can help. 

It is in muscles of jaw too. 

 

it also looks like a very strong inflammation of the muscles and just under the skin.

 

Vega. 

[Vegalia]

 Good morning, 

 

4 january 2020 : L-tryptophan +/- 140 mg 

 

Sleep 12.30 am to 6 am. No hard neuro-emotion. Headache and neck ache 8-9/10. Contractions of muscle of jaw and up of the back 7/10. Legs and arms burning 5/10.

 

7.am : make hypnosis 45 mn in bed. A little better but after hypnosis anxious like a pic of cortisol. Ball in stomach, nausea. Migraine 8-9/10.No feel other hard aches. 

 

8. am : restlessness 8-10, internal Akathisy. 

 

8.30 am : escitalopram 1,5mg, stomach burning. 

 

9.am : prazepam 4,75 mg, stomach burning increas a little. 

 

10. am : restlessness 4/10, anxiety 2/10, depression 6/10.always hard migraine. 

 

11.am : took 1 mg paracetamol, rest in bed. Sleep until 1.30 pm. No more migraine. Wake anxious = cortisol? Ball in stomach. 

 

2. pm : get up , eat some food. All my back is burning very hard. 8-9/10. Arms are burning too. 

 

3.pm : prazepam 4,75 mg, stomach burning a little.

 

4. am : rest in bed. 

 

6.pm : get up, always hard burning in back, jaw muscle contraction. 

 

7.45 pm : eat. Muscles of legs weakness. 

 

8. pm : restlessness 8-9, internal Akathisy., anxiety 5, depression 6, intrusive idea. 

 

9.pm: prazepam 4,75 mg : stomach burning not a lot. Anxiety : 0, depression 5, restlessness 1-2. Less aches and burnings of back. 

 

11 pm : tension and sensation of tremor in head , pulsations and little tremors of lips and tongue. 

 

11.30 pm ; L-tryptophan140 mg. 

 

Midnight : go to sleep. Palpitations of heart. 

 

Sleep 1 am to 6 am. Wake anxious, ball in stomach. 

 

@Altostrata

 

Since some days it seems I can see a new symptoms pattern, is more clear for me :

 

+/- 6-7 am : anxious : cortisol? Ball in stomach. 

+/- 30 mn- 1 hour after : hard restlessness, internal Akathisy crisis. This crisis calms on hour later. 

+/- 7-8 pm : return of hard restlessness, internal Akathisy + muscles legs weakness. 

Feel better after prazepam at 9 pm. No more internal Akathisy, less aches and burnings. But always muscles of legs weakness. 

+/- 11 pm : tension and tremors in head. Pulsations and tremors in jaw, lips, tongue. A little palpitations. 

 

--> aches, contractions and burnings are fluctuating, localisation too, but less hard after 9 pm. However arms burnings are often presents on evening and legs burnings most if the time only on morning. 

 

Have a good day. 

 

Vega. 

 

 

[Altostrata]

My guess is the stomach burning and some of the pain is from your longstanding cigarette habit. The prazepam you're taking has only partly substituted for your prior clotiazepam and maybe Xanax.

 

I don't think I can add any more.

[Vegalia]

8 hours ago, Altostrata said:

My guess is the stomach burning and some of the pain is from your longstanding cigarette habit. The prazepam you're taking has only partly substituted for your prior clotiazepam and maybe Xanax.

 

I don't think I can add any more.

 Hello  Altostrata, 

 

I'm grateful for time you spent to try to help me. 

I think  I have antidepressant hard W/D after a bad switch to escitalopram and maybe too much escitalopram. 

 

Then I reduced too fast escitalopram. 

 

15 July 2019  :Escitalopram: 5 mg,

20 July : 4 mg

22 July: 3,25 mg

23 july: 2,5mg

25 july: 2,25 mg

8 August : 2 mg

16 August: 1,75 mg

20 August: 1,50 mg

12 september :1,25 mg

24 september :1,38 mg

28 septembre: 1,50 mg

 

I went on this forum in hope to any advices  for reinstatement of antidepressant or how to calm my W/D,  after to read informations about it on this forum. 

First advice given me by Sassenach was to take again 5 mg dose. 

I knew that 5 mg was too much for me. I didn't know how updose between 1,50 and 4 mg. 

I really don't think that the worse problem is benzo, in reference to my base line since one year. 

With sertraline I had tolerable W/D. I read what Brass monkey wrote about this. Just arms burnings but less and less until July. Sometimes legs burnings but it has totally disappeared. Other symptoms were very slight. But I had drowsiness with benzo. 

With 3 months stop tapering sertraline I felt me much better. 

When I had 30 mg prazepam I really think that it completely substituted Clotiazepam  and maybe was too big dose because I had hard drowsiness even before to taper antidepressant. 

However a possibility is that I tapered prazepam a little to much from April to June, because it covered a little Nervosity I had as adverse reaction with antidepressant. This adverse reaction had totally disappeared and came back a little end of June. 

It increased again with 5 mg escitalopram : too hard dose... 

 

 

Quote

If you stop taking SEROPLEX 20 mg / ml, oral solution in drops

 

Do not stop taking SEROPLEX without your doctor's advice. At the end of your treatment, it is generally recommended to gradually reduce the doses of SEROPLEX over several weeks.

 

When you stop taking SEROPLEX, especially if you stop taking it suddenly, you may experience symptoms related to stopping treatment. These symptoms are common after stopping treatment with SEROPLEX. The risk is higher when SEROPLEX has been used for a long time, or in high doses, or when doses are lowered too quickly. In most patients these symptoms are moderate and resolve spontaneously in less than 2 weeks. However, in some patients, they can be severe in intensity or prolonged (2 to 3 months or more). If you experience severe symptoms after stopping treatment with SEROPLEX, contact your doctor. He or she may then ask you to resume your treatment and decrease the doses more gradually.

 

Symptoms that may appear after stopping treatment include: dizziness (instability or imbalance), tingling or tingling sensations, burning sensations and (less frequently) sensations of electric shock, including in the head, sleep (restless dreams, nightmares, inability to sleep), feeling of anxiety, headache, feeling sick (nausea), sweating (including night sweats), feeling agitated, trembling (tremors), feeling confused or disorientation, feeling emotional or irritable, diarrhea (loose stools), visual disturbances, exaggerated perception of heartbeat (palpitations).

 

If you have any further questions on the use of this medicine, ask your doctor or pharmacist for more information.

¶

 = a lot of symptoms I have. Burning sensations in body are worse and worse. I talk not only about stomach but all body. With neuro-emotions it is intolerable too. I feel me worse and worse since August.

 

I have beginning to taper cigarettes slowly. 

 

Should I understand that you or others can't help me anymore? I can understand this. Just say me it if it is. 

 

Thank you very much. 

 

Vega. 

 

 

 

[Vegalia]

Good morning, 

 

 

 

5 january 2020 : L-tryptophan +/- 140 mg

 

Sleep 1 am to 6 am. Wake anxious, ball in stomach : cortisol? Legs burning. Body burning but less, less contractions, nausea. 

 

7.am : restlessness 8-9/10, internal Akathisy 1 hour. 

 

8. am : get up. Body burning a little less. I'am cold. diarrhea. Little tremor of jaw and tongue all day long. 

 

8.30 am : escitalopram 1,5mg, stomach burning not a lot. 

 

9.am : prazepam 4,75 mg, stomach burning increase a little. 

 

10. am : restlessness 4/10, anxiety 2/10, depression 8/10. Just want cry but I can't and just want to stay in bed all day. Force me to do a little housework. Tension and tremor in head all day 5/10.

 

11.am : hypnosis. Not work a lot. 

12.30 pm: eat. Weakness of legs muscles. 

 

3.pm : prazepam 4,75 mg, nausea. 

 

4. am : hypnosis in bed. Drowsiness. After pic of anxiety. Ball in stomach. 

 

5 pm : burning of body increase, anxiety 6/10.Force me to do some housework again. 

 

7.30 pm : eat. weakness of legs increase. 

 

8. pm : restlessness 8/10, internal Akathisy : 30 mn. 

 

9.pm: prazepam 4,75 mg : stomach burning not a lot. Anxiety : 5, depression 7, restlessness 4. Back always burning until head.

 

10.30 pm : L-tryptophan140 mg. 

 

10.45 pm : go to bed, feel me hyper vigilant. Palpitations of heart. 

 

Sleep  : 11.30-midnight to 4 pm. Wake anxious. Body burnings. Muscles spasms. Restlessness : 6-7/10. Try to calm me in bed. Nausea. Despair. 😭

 

Yesterday : less contractions of muscles but hard body burnings. Head tension and sensations of tremor. Legs muscles weakness increase. 

Neuro-emotions unstable. Restlessness, return of hard depression. (Never had depression before September 2019) 

Sensibility to light and noises. 

Cold several times. 

 

Have a good day. 

 

Vega. 

 

 

 

 

[Altostrata]

I'm sorry, Vegalia, I've tried to follow your explanations but I haven't been able to. I've read through your entire thread and I see Erell and Shep also tried to make sense of your chronology.

 

From your signature, I can see you made changes in sertraline, escilatopram, and Xanax at the same time in July and August 2018. Then you made more changes, switching to clotiazepam in late August and then prazepam in early October. You said clotiazepam worked, but you switched from clotiazepam to prazepam because of interdose withdrawal..

 

On 10/3/2019 at 2:01 AM, Vegalia said:

- April 2019: I stay at 25 mg of sertraline and I gradually reduce lysanxia/ Prazepam. I have symptoms but this is bearable most of the time. overall I am much better and the pains are lessening.

 

- 15/07 2019:
Before a return of nervousness and intense agitation: I resume the withdrawal of an antidepressant with a switch to have an antidepressant in gout. Sertraline 25 mg -> .....

 

 Since the introduction of escitalopram, I have never really managed to stabilize myself.

 

While the switch from sertraline to escilatopram in July 2019 may not have been smooth, you had also been reducing prazepam at the same time.

 

Any or all of these changes may have contributed to your current symptoms. 

 

2 hours ago, Vegalia said:

I really don't think that the worse problem is benzo, in reference to my base line since one year. 

 

 

I have no idea what this means. Your drug intake has been inconsistent throughout 2019. You stopped changing prazepam and escilatopram dosing only in September.

 

Your most recent daily notes are an example of your current baseline symptom pattern. 

 

Currently you do not seem to have adverse effects from escilatopram. You moved it to the morning in late December but symptoms did not travel with it. (Around this time, you stopped reporting regular morning nausea.) What became apparent is that you get stomach-burning after taking any of your drugs.

 

However, the prazepam does not appear to be helping you with your symptoms. You feel better in the evening, I would guess, from the accumulation of the day's prazepam dosing.

 

We spent several weeks talking about your stomach burning, but it was only a few days ago that you mentioned you were a heavy cigarette smoker. This could have caused the stomach symptoms, even years ago.

 

It appears the stomach pain was the original reason you started Xanax and then the antidepressants:
 

On 12/9/2019 at 5:51 AM, Vegalia said:

I know what the ravages of my digestive system give: they were the ones who upset me in June 2018 and made me want to die. This is where I started xanax ... which had quickly calmed me down in small doses ...

 

On 12/20/2019 at 12:49 PM, Vegalia said:

I haven't had gastritis for a long time. Gastritis was more common because I was taking medication: antibiotics, anti-inflammatories .... I also have an irritable bowel. I have been on the Fod map diet for several years, be careful what I eat (nothing that could burn. The medicine for gastritis is PPI: bad medicine, as you know. I never want to take it, ever. It's a bit difficult since my husband no longer wants to shop for food and the last few days I was unable to do so. I hope tomorrow I can. Thanks for your links, I'll read it.  

 

 

Or it could have been related to your endometriosis surgery in June 2018. What part of your symptoms is endometriosis?

 

Symptoms from your heavy smoking and endometriosis are not related to antidepressant or benzo withdrawal. You will need to work on those, we can't help you with them.

 

You only started going out and getting a little exercise each day in November. It appears you had some windows in November.

 

This is what I think now:

 

10 hours ago, Altostrata said:

My guess is the stomach burning and some of the pain is from your longstanding cigarette habit. The prazepam you're taking has only partly substituted for your prior clotiazepam and maybe Xanax.

 

I don't think I can add any more.

 

I cannot with any confidence recommend increasing escilatopram dosage. My intuition is that some of your discomfort is from benzo withdrawal. @Shep, what do you think?

 

Since you only stopped changing your drugs a few months ago, perhaps staying with your current drug schedule for at least 6 months will allow your nervous system to settle down.

 

I strongly recommend you taper off and stop smoking, and be sure to get at least a half-hour of gentle exercise, such as walking, every day. This alone may substantially reduce your symptoms.

[Vegalia]

 

2 hours ago, Altostrata said:

From your signature, I can see you made changes in sertraline, escilatopram, and Xanax at the same time in July and August 2018. Then you made more changes, switching to clotiazepam in late August and then prazepam in early October. You said clotiazepam worked, but you switched from clotiazepam to prazepam because of interdose withdrawal..

 

2018 : 

29 july : xanax 0,125 x 2 no antidepressant. Try to stop 10 days after starting because I was no anguish anymore. One day no benzo feel good. One day after terrible anguish 10 days with 0,125 mg and ok. 

13 August : in psychiatric hospital to find a solution to stop (bad idea) 0,25 x 2 because I slept just 4 hour a night but no anxiety: no antidepressant. Psychiatrists promised me I will stop benzo easy. 

18 August at home: feel good : take just 0,25 xanax : advice of psychiatrist. Horrible anguish until 28 August even if I took 0,25 mg x2 on 19 August. 

28 August : psychiatrist = clotiazépam 5x2.+ start venlafaxine 75 mg XR : nervous with venlafaxine 2 weeks after started

19 september :clotiazepam 5x2 + venlafaxine 37,5 mg XR : anxiety between 2 doses of Clotiazepam. 

4 October : Prazepam : 5-5-7,5  + venlafaxine 75 mg XR nervous again but in the same time hard drowsiness who increased +/- 1 h-1h30 after taking prazepam. Alternatively Nervosity and drowsiness all day. 

Between 4 October and 24 October : prazepam 5-5-7, 5 to 3,5-3,5 -6,5 : felt better in first time. 

18 October : venlafaxine 37,5 mg XR + sertraline 25 mg (bridge) 

25 October : Prazepam 10x3 : because return of anxiety + stinging in body : it disappeared in 10 days. 

1 November : sertraline 50 mg (end of bridge) 

21 November : sertraline 50 mg, prazepam 9,5 x 3. 

27 November : beginning of sertraline taper because nervous again. . ... 

 

2 hours ago, Altostrata said:

While the switch from sertraline to escilatopram in July 2019 may not have been smooth, you had also been reducing prazepam at the same time.

 

Any or all of these changes may have contributed to your current symptoms. 

 

 Yes! 😞
 

 

2 hours ago, Altostrata said:

 

I have no idea what this means. Your drug intake has been inconsistent throughout 2019. You stopped changing prazepam and escilatopram dosing only in September.

 Yes... I followed french forum advice with benzo. But felt me better and better. So I did... 

 

 

2 hours ago, Altostrata said:

You feel better in the evening, I would guess, from the accumulation of the day's prazepam dosing.

 

 That is my feelings too. 

 

2 hours ago, Altostrata said:

We spent several weeks talking about your stomach burning, but it was only a few days ago that you mentioned you were a heavy cigarette smoker. This could have caused the stomach symptoms, even years ago.

 

 

I Sayed it to Shep long time ago, but, my thread is very long... 

 

2 hours ago, Altostrata said:

 

It appears the stomach pain was the original reason you started Xanax and then the antidepressants:
 

 Yes. I think bad reaction to AINS and PPI that was prescribed me after surgery. 

I'm AINS intolerant but let me convince by anesthetist... I had suddenly terrible anguish. I never had before. 

I didn't have stomach problems anymore from September 2018 until escitalopram and fast taper of it or very rare, not during long time. No stomach burning. Only little problem with bowel but slight and rare. 

 

 

2 hours ago, Altostrata said:

Or it could have been related to your endometriosis surgery in June 2018. What part of your symptoms is endometriosis?

 

 I don't know. I don't feel problems I had with endometriosis anymore, except common aches 3 times during periods. IT is Ok. 

 

Doctors in the past prescribed me a lot of antibiotics and antifungals for the wrong reasons: suspicion of urinary and vaginal infections without analysis or before the results of analyzes, when the analyzes were almost always negative. After a while I stopped taking these drugs before I got the test results = I haven't taken any more for maybe more of two years. But I think these drugs weakened me a lot. After the endometriosis surgery, I no longer had all these problems of supposed infections ... It took 4 years to diagnose and operate on my endometriosis ... Maybe see 10 gynecologist and one urologist, several times before to have an MRI and diagnostic. 

I no longer have horrible pelvic inflammatory pain like I have had for years. Finished! 

 

2 hours ago, Altostrata said:

 

I cannot with any confidence recommend increasing escilatopram dosage

I understand. 

 

 

My feelings are really antidepressant W/D first because of symptoms. It is possible i've got W/D benzo too a little but not sure. I was much more stable with neuro emotions before escitalopram and fast taper. Well bearable. I never had depression or internal Akathisy before September 2019. I never had back, neck contractions and burning. Never had tension and tremors in head, jaw, tongue. 

Never wanted to die. Didn't want to cry all day long. Never. 

 

Thank you for all, @Altostrata,  @Shep and @Sassenach.

 

I know my history is very complicated. I  followed on beginning advices of psychiatrist. I didn't managed to stop xanax 2x0, 125 mg only after 10 days I started it, it was my problem and wanted help to manage it. . Already dependent... 

 

I'should  never had take antidepressant. I trusted psychiatrists because it was their solution to stop benzo... I understood quickly that it wasn't,  just 1,5 month after taking my first benzo and 2 weeks after my first antidepressant.I didn't know how taper my drugs. Psychiatrist couldn't help me. 

I regret not to meet you at this moment... 

 

Vega

[Shep]

Vegalia, do you feel that smoking is the primary reason for the burning stomach pain? If so, you could taper the cigarettes first. 

 

How many cigarettes are you currently smoking? If you decide to taper, you could remove one cigarette per week until the burning symptoms are better. You may want to completely taper off cigarettes completely. 

[Vegalia]

I had more of 10 general anesthesia in my life. 

First at 22 months, last in June 2018.

After all anesthesia I was ok. But with the last, I don't felt me ok. 

It could be have an influence too and make my body fragile. 

I think I had 1 atarax or 1 xanax, just one before several anesthesia, I forgoted that. French bad surgery habits. 

 

Vega. 

[Vegalia]

42 minutes ago, Shep said:

Vegalia, do you feel that smoking is the primary reason for the burning stomach pain? If so, you could taper the cigarettes first. 

 

How many cigarettes are you currently smoking? If you decide to taper, you could remove one cigarette per week until the burning symptoms are better. You may want to completely taper off cigarettes completely. 

 Hello Shep

 

I don't think so, but it can make inflammation worse, stomach I know it. 

When I had in the past inflammation of stomach it was each time after anti inflammatory or antibiotics. Or after sertraline in titration too : only 3 days and stomach burnings. After I had capsule again, inflammation reduced very fast. 

It is sure that tobacco make it worse, I could see that in the past. But I recoveredrecovered each time after stop these drugs. 

I smoke 15 cigarettes +/- a day. 13 yesterday. 

Before I went to psychiatric hospital in August 2018, I have reduced since several months at 5-7 a day. 

That is what I smoked when I had stomach inflammation after endometriosis surgery and as I took anti-inflammatory and PPI. In hospital I smoked probably more than 20 cigarettes and had no more stomach burnings. 

 

 

I never had back, neck, head ...inflammation, burnings before. It is very recent. And this burnings are worse than stomach burnings, even if stomach burnings is hard. It is a possible escitalopram W/D.

Escitalopram in drops contain alcohol and prazepam in drops too, it can be also a problem. That's why I ask me questions. I have or had, after escitalopram reduces almost of symptoms of the list I posted and others. 

 

Of course, taper cigarettes is good, but cigarettes are not the primary reason I think. If it was, why so brutally? 

 

Thank you. 

 

Vega 

[Vegalia]

7 hours ago, Vegalia said:

If you stop taking SEROPLEX 20 mg / ml, oral solution in drops

 

Do not stop taking SEROPLEX without your doctor's advice. At the end of your treatment, it is generally recommended to gradually reduce the doses of SEROPLEX over several weeks.

 

When you stop taking SEROPLEX, especially if you stop taking it suddenly, you may experience symptoms related to stopping treatment. These symptoms are common after stopping treatment with SEROPLEX. The risk is higher when SEROPLEX has been used for a long time, or in high doses, or when doses are lowered too quickly. In most patients these symptoms are moderate and resolve spontaneously in less than 2 weeks. However, in some patients, they can be severe in intensity or prolonged (2 to 3 months or more). If you experience severe symptoms after stopping treatment with SEROPLEX, contact your doctor. He or she may then ask you to resume your treatment and decrease the doses more gradually.

 

Symptoms that may appear after stopping treatment include:

 

dizziness (instability or imbalance) : I have had

tingling or tingling sensations : I have : lips, jaw, tongue, head : récent. 

burning sensations : I have : stomach yes, but back, neck, head, legs, arms. 

(less frequently) sensations of electric shock including in the head : I have had in head 

sleep (restless dreams, nightmares, inability to sleep) : I have had restless dreams. My sleep less good. 

feeling of anxiety : have with waves

, headache : I have

 Feeling sick (nausea): I had, and have now with waves

, sweating (including night sweats) : had à lot un august

feeling agitated : I have

trembling (tremors) : sometimes

feeling confused or disoriedisorientation : I have had, not à lot now. 

Feeling emotional or irritable : I have

, diarrhea (loose stools) : had all september, now occasionally. 

, visual disturbances : I have

exaggerated perception of heartbeat (palpitations) : I have, very recent. 

 

If you have any further questions on the use of this medicine, ask your doctor or pharmacist for more information.

 I read it yesterday evening. 

 

Thank you. Sorry to post so much. I am not alone in forum, I know. 

 

I am ashamed. I try to make myself understood not make you waste your precious time that you give generously.

 

I'm very grateful. 

 

Vega

[Vegalia]

All my apologies for my attitude. I panicked, but it is not an excuse. 

 

I will first try to follow your advice with cigarettes and self care. 

 

 I will to try to be more clear and concisely in my diary. Not easy with lot of symptoms who are often change. I was sometimes in confusion too, what made my diary maybe not very clear. With my english not easy too. A lot of misunderstanding. 

 

I accept too that forum can not have solution for all. All what you are doing is wonderful. 

I know too that the psychiatrists and after French methods I followed can makes confusion. Too much changes were adviced. Too much advices an French forum (complements, why not to switch your antidepressant  A lot of changes not carefully enough): it makes confusion too and I took bad decisions. 

French forum had just one experience of sertraline taper successful, had no experience with antidepressant adverse reactions like nervousity, mania with antidepres before me, @Lina1001 and another person. I didn't knew that before I was already advices to taper too fast in the same time of Lina. 

They don't have the notion of Embrasement too... and hard sensibility to changes, to complements and reinstatement. Help of staff is not always very supervised pad. The advices can change from a person to another... Not enough carefully. They try solution too fast. Too much improvisation. Tries with no certitude. 

 

So if you don't have solution I understand it very well. I understand too that when a situation is too complicated, you can't risk advice which could be bad. It is something that I find good in this forum. 

 

I a m very sorry when I think of all the time you spent with me. I wished I could be more clear for you.You make what you can and it is already very much! 

I am very, very grateful and apologize again. 

 

Thank you so much.🙏💕

 

Vega. 

 

[Vegalia]

 

Good Morning, 

 

6 january 2020 : L-tryptophan +/- 140 mg

 

Sleep : 11.30-midnight to 4 pm. Wake anxious. Body burnings. Muscles spasms. Restlessness : 6-7/10. Try to calm me in bed. Nausea. Despair. Bad drowsiness until 6.am.

 

7.am : get up. I'm cold. Arms burnings. Head : ache  sensations of tremor and tension, jaw ache Anxiety 4/10, restlessness 6/10, depression 8/10 all day. 

 

8.30 am : escitalopram 1,5mg, stomach burning not a lot.

 

Body burnings reduce a little. Feel me hyper vigilant. Muscles of legs weakness and little dizziness all day. 

 

9.am : prazepam 4,75 mg, stomach burning increase a little.

 

1.30 pm : eat sandwich. 

 

3.pm : prazepam 4,75 mg, nausea, stomach burnings. 

 

4.30 pm : kinesitherapy. Little shopping, walk 10 mn. fog in brain, a little DP/DR. Proud to of me. 

 

5.30 pm : a short walk in garden, give food for birds. Forced me to do 15 mn housework. 

 

6.30. pm : hypnosis, cardiac coherence. 

 

7.30 pm : eat.

 

8.30 pm : cry because Il learn that my niece who is one month old has cystic fibrosis. Really cry first time since months

 

9.pm: prazepam 4,75 mg : stomach burning not a lot. Anxiety : 5, depression 8, restlessness 4. Back always burning until head but in reduction. Jaw, tongue little tremor. 

 

11.30 pm : L-tryptophan140 mg. 

 

Sleep midnight too 5.30 am, not very anxious. Legs burnings 30 mn, nausea,  tension sensations of tremors in head very hard, jaws very contracted, bruxism. Restlessness 6, depression 6, cry a little. 

 

Yesterday : less contractions of muscles but hard body burnings. Head tension and sensations of tremor. Legs muscles weakness. 

 

--> the location of pain, contractions and burns has changed for several days: almost more in the lower back, but still a lot in the upper back, the nape, stronger in the head and arms. Appearance in the jaw muscles.

Neuro-emotions unstable. Restlessness, hard depression.

Sensibility to light and noises hard. Feel me hyper vigilant. 

Cold several times. 

 

Have a good day. 

 

Vega. 

[Vegalia]

Good evening ; 

 

 

Baseline symptom pattern, if it can help : :

 

2018 :

July too November. 

 

-:unstable with 4 bad trying to reduce benzo too fast : 2 times Xanax, 1 time clotiazépam, 1 time prazepam. 

= anguish, anxiety, bad sleep and good episodes alternatively. One episode of stinging in body after try to taper prazepam rom 5-5-7,5 too 3,5-3,5-6,5 in October. 

25 October prazepam 10 x 3. 10 days later no more stinging. Good sleep but hard drowsiness after each dose of prazepam. 

 

- enervate the 2 times at venlafaxine 75 mg XR and sertraline 50 mg.  But always hard drowsiness after each dose of prazepam. 

 

- beginning of arms burnings and visual problem beginning of November. 

 

November :

7 am : wake up, good mood, arms burnings. 

8. 30 am : take antidepressant

9. am : take prazepam, less arms burnings. 

10 am : very hard drowsiness

+/- : noon : enervated and it increase gradually

15. pm : prazepam 

15. 30 : very hard drowsiness : can't always fight with sleep. Nap sometimes. 

18. 30 am : enervate and in increase gradually

9. pm : prazepam

9. 30 pm : drowsiness

10-10 30 pm : fall asleep. 

sleep of 7-8 hours, normal. 

-->hard problems of memory and concentration. 

--> legs burnings sometimes. 

* go to walk every, do some little activities. Can not drive but can make basic activities and self care. 

 

December : after reduce sertraline from 50 to 40 mg (20%/30 days) 

Same baseline symptoms pattern. But not so hard. Less enervate.. Nausea and headache sometimes but not very hard, not every days. .Symptomes are harder the third week after reduction and reduce. 

--> French forum habits = taper +/- 1,5 % benzo every 21 days for not to be in tolerance. I made 2%/21 days. Advice given to me 

 

2019 : 

January :

Same baseline symptoms pattern of December. But not so hard. Drowsiness increase after prazepam. Symptoms are harder the third week after reduction and reduce

 

February :

 

7 am : wake up, good mood, arms burnings. 

8. 30 am : take sertraline

9. am : take prazepam, less arms burnings. 

10 am : very hard drowsiness

noon : less drowsiness

15. pm : prazepam 

15. 30 : drowsiness increase: can't always fight with sleep. Nap often. 

6. 30 pm : less drowsiness

9. pm : prazepam

9. 30 pm : drowsiness increase

10-10 30 pm : feel asleep. 

sleep of 7-8 hours, normal. 

-->hard problems of memory and concentration. 

--> legs burnings sometimes

--> less arms burnings. 

--> Nausea and headache sometimes, not every day. 

* go to walk every, do some little activities, but harder with benzo drowsiness.. Can not drive but can make basic activities and self care. 

= advice of french forum reduce prazepam 1 x 5%/8 d, 2x3%/7 days and return to 2%/21days.

 

 

March : 

 

7 am : wake up, good mood, arms burnings. 

8. 30 am : take sertraline

9. am : take prazepam, less arms burnings. 

10 am : hard drowsiness

noon : less drowsiness

15. pm : prazepam 

15. 30 : drowsiness increase: can't always fight with sleep. Nap sometimes

6. 30 pm : less drowsiness

9. pm : prazepam

9. 30 pm : drowsiness increase

10-10 30 pm : fell asleep. 

sleep of 7-8 hours, normal. 

--> a little less problems of memory and concentration. 

--> legs burnings sometimes

--> less arms burnings. 

--> nausea and headache very rare. 

* go to walk every day, do some little activities. Begin to drive until 5 km : can do little shopping or go to pharmacy alone. can make basic activities and self care. 

Prazepam taper to 2%/21days.

 

 

April : 

 

7 am : wake up, good mood, arms burnings. 

8. 30 am : take sertraline

9. am : take prazepam, less arms burnings. 

10 am : drowsiness

noon : less drowsiness

15. pm : prazepam 

15. 30 : drowsiness increase: can't sometimes fight with sleep. Naps rare. 

6. 30 pm : less drowsiness

9. pm : prazepam

9. 30 pm : drowsiness increase

10-10 30 pm : feel asleep. 

sleep of 7-8 hours, normal. 

--> a little less problems of memory and concentration. 

--> legs burnings sometimes

--> less arms burnings. 

--> less visual problem

--> no more nausea. 

* go to walk every day, do more  activities. Drive until 20 km : can do little shopping, go to pharmacy, to psychologist and some friends alone. can make basic activities and self care. 

Prazepam taper to 2%/21days.Stop sertraline taper at 25 mg on 18 April . And start to taper prazepam  gradually. 3%/7 day, 3,5%/7day

stop lithium citrate and L-tryptophane : ok. 

 

At this time I think I can stay with sertraline 25 mg and taper prazepam with French forum method ( a lot if successful story with benzo taper in this forum) 

 

May :

 

7 am : wake up, good mood, arms a burnings. 

8. 30 am : take sertraline 25 mg

9. am : take prazepam, less arms burnings. 

10 am : a little bdrowsiness

noon : less drowsiness

15. pm : prazepam 

15. 30 : drowsiness increase

6. 30 pm : less drowsiness

9. pm : prazepam

9. 30 pm : drowsiness increase

10-30 pm- 11 pm: fall asleep. 

sleep of 7-8 hours, normal. 

--> less problems of memory and concentration. 

--> legs burnings very rare

--> less arms burnings. 

 

-> no more visual problem

--> no more nausea or headache. 

* go to walk every day more longer, do more  activities. Drive until 20 km : can do little shopping, go to pharmacy, to psychologist and some friends alone. can make basic activities and self care. Gardening every day. 

Feel me ready to work again partial time! 

Taper of prazepam 5%/8 d. 

 

1 to 15 June :

 

7 am : wake up, good mood, arms burnings not a lot. 

8. 30 am : take sertraline 25 mg. 

9. am : take prazepam, less arms burnings. 

10 am : little drowsiness sometimes. 

noon : no drowsiness

15. pm : prazepam 

15. 30 : a little drowsiness sometimes

6. 30 pm : less drowsiness

9. pm : prazepam

10 pm : 

10h30-11pm : sometimes feell asleep. 

sleep of 7-8 hours, normal. 

 

--> recovery 80% memory and concentration. 

--> legs burnings sometimes

--> less arms burnings. 

* go to walk every day, do more  activities. Drive until 20 km : can do little shopping, go to pharmacy, to psychologist and some friends alone. can make basic activities and self care. 

So happy !!! 

 

 

15-30 june

 

7 am : wake up, good mood, arms burnings not a lot. A little enervate sometimes

8. 30 am : take sertraline 25 mg. 

9. am : take prazepam, not a lot arms burnings. 

10 am : less enervate

15. pm : prazepam 

noon : a little enervate sometimes

15. 30 : prazepam

6. 30 pm : less enervate

9. pm : prazepam

11 pm : don't feel asleep every day. 

sleep of 7-8 hours, normal. 

 

--> recovery 90% memory and concentration. 

--> legs burnings sometimes

--> less arms burnings. 

-->headache sometimes, fog in brain rare. 

* go to walk every day, do more  activities. Drive until 20 km : can do little shopping, go to pharmacy, to psychologist and some friends alone. can make basic activities and self care. 

So happy !!! But aske me questions because I am a little enervate again. 

--> advice of French forum : "you accept that you must taper antidepressant : great! Why not to change for Prozac liquid? Second time it was proposed too me. I refused first time. I choose escitalopram because I was afraid to be nervous with Prozac and my psychiatrist didn't want to prescribed me Prozac. Bad idea. 

stop taper prazepam : just 2%/21 days. 

 

1-14 july

Can go to Holiday 1 week! 

Sometimes fog in brain or headache, dizziness, but rare 3 or 4 days and not all day. Ache in left hand one week. 

Always enervate sometimes but more often. 

 

15 July : escitalopram 5 mg. Feel me good! No more aches.

 

19 July : feel me very enervate. 

 

19 July : 4 mg escitalopram. I wanted to stay at this dose one month if it is possible. 

--> French forum  : " No! Reduce to 3,25 mg tomorrow ! "And several times adviced me to reduce. " You must reduce fast : you are enervate and have too much antidepressant. 

 

23 july: 2,5, 25 july: 2,25

 

August :

8 August : 2, 16 August: 1,75, 20 August: 1,50, : no more enervate. I aske if I should taper 0,25 mg every 15 days : yes you know how to do... 

Symptoms : lot of sweat, less enervate, Little  difficulties to speak. Little unpleasant sensations in head. 

 

September : 

 

reduce on 12 September at 1,25 mg. I don't know why... 

hard diarrhea one month long, hard fatigue. I think on benzo drowsiness then I taper 2 x 3%/7 days prazepam.

--> French forum Sayed : you must find equilibrium between antidepressant and benzo...+/- dame advices tell to other persons with more hard taper for them : 3 catastrophes. 

 

Beginning of depression. Beginning of heads and back unpleasant sensations of electricity. 

Intrusive ideas. Hypnagogic hallucinations. 

 

And you knows what happened after. 

 

Good night. 

 

Vega. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Altostrata]

On 1/6/2020 at 12:52 AM, Altostrata said:

Since you only stopped changing your drugs a few months ago, perhaps staying with your current drug schedule for at least 6 months will allow your nervous system to settle down.

 

I strongly recommend you taper off and stop smoking, and be sure to get at least a half-hour of gentle exercise, such as walking, every day. This alone may substantially reduce your symptoms.

 

You have a strong belief that your symptoms are from antidepressant withdrawal, but we cannot diagnose whether it's antidepressant withdrawal or benzo withdrawal from the symptoms. The symptoms are the same.

 

As you get older, you become more sensitive to where you have vulnerable places in your body. Stomach irritation from cigarette smoking can get worse. You might find "stomach burning" coincides with smoking a cigarette. Overall aches and pains can get worse. Very strongly advise you to reduce your cigarette smoking. This may take some months.

 

We don't have any solutions for your problems. You've only begun a stable drug schedule. You don't have to continue posting a daily symptom pattern unless there has been a significant change.

[Vegalia]

7 hours ago, Altostrata said:

 

You have a strong belief that your symptoms are from antidepressant withdrawal, but we cannot diagnose whether it's antidepressant withdrawal or benzo withdrawal from the symptoms. The symptoms are the same.

 

As you get older, you become more sensitive to where you have vulnerable places in your body. Stomach irritation from cigarette smoking can get worse. You might find "stomach burning" coincides with smoking a cigarette. Overall aches and pains can get worse. Very strongly advise you to reduce your cigarette smoking. This may take some months.

 

We don't have any solutions for your problems. You've only begun a stable drug schedule. You don't have to continue posting a daily symptom pattern unless there has been a significant change.

 

Hello Altostrata. 

 

I know that reduce of benzo could have contributed too, especially in may and June, and then one times 3%/7 days in September (not 2 times in fact) 

However French people manage to taper antidepressant with prudent protocol and in the same time 1,5 or 2% of benzo/21 d for tolerance. I know it isn't your method and I understand why. 

 

However, I am sure to have reduced escitalopram too fast : brutally, what I didn't with sertraline. 

 

But.

Before September : I had no muscle horrible contractions,in back and nape, :it is worse and worse since September. I had no depression. It reduced a lot and come back very recently. : wave? 

No more nausea. 

No sensations of electricity and tremors in head. 

No intrusive idea. 

 

Before October : no horrible and unbearable neuro emotions , no Akathisy, no crisis : it reduced a lot and come back very recently. : wave?

No stomach burnings. 

No horrible burnings in back,nape. no hypnagogic hallucinations (except during one week after start of venlafaxine), no more burnings in arms and legs. 

Before December : no palpitations. 

My situation is worse and worse. 

My stomach burnings are not the worse symptom for me. 

 

I can understand that you can be not sure with reinstatement of escitalopram. 

It was my question since October, because I knew I had reduced it brutally. I thought I had probably not enough reinstated, in relation to my brutally taper especially from 22 to 25 July. I see people with less symptoms of me which have reinstatement. 

 

However, I start to reduce cigarettes. I know that it can be contributed with all types of inflammation especially for stomach, and is not good for NCS, like coffee I had reduced since long time (just one like little cup) and totally stop since 3 months. 

 

If @Shep had an advice with reinstatement, it will interest me. If she has not I understand. 

 

 

I am grateful with all time You spent for me. 

 

Your forum is very useful for me for self care and try to make prevention in French forum. 

I have find support too. 

 

Thank you so much Altostrata. 

 

Vega

 

 

[Vegalia]

Prevention I try to make in French forum with other people : 

 

- never advice a switch of antidepressant  : just eventually Prozac bridge only end of taper is too hard. 

 

- switch is always a risk. 

 

- never advice to taper antidepressant brutaly even if people are very enervate before taper : I read your advice to try 25% and waiting stabilisation. No try advice if you are not sure that is not a risk. 

 

- better to keep 30 days a dose of antidepressant, always say that it is a security, and 30 days is not a limit if people have got symptoms (more of 30 days is considered bad : I have never understand why) 

 

- concentrations of antidepressants are very important not only % of reduction. ( for example : escitalopram very concentrated) 

 

- be very careful with complements : just one in time and gradually. What is good for one people is not sure to be good for another. 

Never advice Hypertricum with antidepressant : they don't advice Hypertricum anymore. 

A complement can't help for wirtherwall. 

 

- Never advice to people to taper benzo and antidepressant in the  same time more of 1,5 % for tolerance and... I'm not sure that this 1,5 % / 21 days is good. (I realize that I am probably the first person in the French forum who had advice of taper sometimes benzo more than 1,5 %/ 21 days in the same time of antidepressant. Since it has been adviced to two other people : catastrophe. 

 

- if people are taking benzo and antidepressant in the same time : never say  systematically reduce benzo and after antidepressant and be very careful if someone take Antidepressant less longer than 3 weeks- one month, especially if there are bad reactions. It was my case and case of other person = reduce antidepressant first. --> this last point I Sayed already more than one year ago and it has changed in forum. 

 

* To resume : your forum will help indirectly several people. All has not change with French forum mentality and ideas but a little.

 

For me and two other people it is too late : damage of CNS, but now maybe no more so hard catastrophe. 

 

For this, for other people, I want to say thank you. 

 

Vega

[Shep]

7 hours ago, Vegalia said:

If @Shep had an advice with reinstatement, it will interest me. If she has not I understand. 

 

Which drug are you speaking about?