Vegalia: Escitalopram and Lysanxia ( prazepam)

[Vegalia]

Hello, 

 

I don't find courage to my signature. Sorry... 

 

I'm always in terrible wave. 

 

However, as I had great improvement during one month middle march to middle April, is it à good sign? 

Greatest improvement I had never had since end september when I crashed after my bad change of sertraline for escitalopram and too fast taper. 

My mood was difficult early on morning but, bearable after éven if I wasn't " normal".

The aches were 30% less hard. 

 

Some symptoms are slighter now for several month but not thé worsted, only symptôms I beared. 

equilibrium problèm, difficulty to speech, nausea, sensibilty to light, visual problems, tongue and jaw tremors, sensibilty of tooth, scratching of skull, muscle weakness in legs. 

and the best for the end no more brain Zap since.... I don't remember. ^^ longtime.

 

Is it a good sign? I need Hope. I keep terrible emotional spirals, internal akhatisie, rage crisis, anguish, terror sometimes and I want to die often,  because symptoms are too hard, horrible aches in back, nake and head. Aches in Head are worse, return of aches in arms. My muscles of jaw are contracted.

 

Thanks à lot and take care.

 

Vega. 

[mustafa]

19 minutes ago, Vegalia said:

Hello, 

 

I don't find courage to my signature. Sorry... 

 

I'm always in terrible wave. 

 

However, as I had great improvement during one month middle march to middle April, is it à good sign? 

Greatest improvement I had never had since end september when I crashed after my bad change of sertraline for escitalopram and too fast taper. 

My mood was difficult early on morning but, bearable after éven if I wasn't " normal".

The aches were 30% less hard. 

 

Some symptoms are slighter now for several month but not thé worsted, only symptôms I beared. 

equilibrium problèm, difficulty to speech, nausea, sensibilty to light, visual problems, tongue and jaw tremors, sensibilty of tooth, scratching of skull, muscle weakness in legs. 

and the best for the end no more brain Zap since.... I don't remember. ^^ longtime.

 

Is it a good sign? I need Hope. I keep terrible emotional spirals, internal akhatisie, rage crisis, anguish, terror solstimes, I want to die often  because symptoms are too hard, horrible aches in back, nake and head. Aches in Head are worse, return of aches in arms. My muscles of jaw are contracted.

 

Thanks à lot and take care.

 

Vega. 

Vegalia,

Everytime i talk to a friend about the withdrawals, one sentence is repeated that they have no problem to die and the people who recovered said that too but after they are fine, they are very happy so i think these symptomts are too hard for humans and what you describe in your post is the hardness in the subject.

For me, iam in a very bad wave of fatigue, sometimes iam not able to complete my food and very afraid from loosing the control over my mind, this is too painful for me.

I need to say, the truth is you do get better but the symptomts are hard, very hard.

Lets wait for some more time❤️💪.

[Vegalia]

Hi Mustafa, 

 

Thanks à lot and take care.

 

Vega. 

[Vegalia]

Hello,

 

26 may :

 

sleep 11.30 plus to 4.30 am

wake anxious, nausea. Back, nek nape burnings and contracted and burning. 

Tension headache, muscles of jaw contracted, palpitations, bad breathing 

 

7 am : get up, anguish until 3.pm despair. 

 

8. 30 am escitalopram 1,60 mg 

 

9 am prazepam 4,32 mg

 

10. 30 : self care, breathing exercices, hypnosis

 

Noon : internal Akhatisie, rage

 

1.30 pm : kinesitherapy : therapist Come at home. 

 

2.30 pm : no more rage, very tired, less aches. 

 

3 pm : prazepam 4,32 mg. 

 

6 pm : rage again aches increase

 

7.30 pm : diner

 

8 pm : watch TV, make games in internet. Aches à little bit slight. 

Feel me 100 % normal with neuro émotions !!! 

 

9 pm : prazepam 4,32 mg. 

 

10.30 pm : feel me à little nervous. 

 

Go to bed at 10.30 pm : self care and sleep.

 

- I feel rage 2-3 h after taking prazepam. Rage diminushing before I take prazepam again. 

= the shema has changed .

 

Take care. 

 

Vega. 

[Vegalia]

Rage, internal Akhatisy and horrible aches back, nek, head, are my worst problems that I can't bear. Return of mania sometimes. (Mania began 15 days after first antidépressant:adverse effect) 

I'm affraid of myself. 

 

Anguish, despair, dépression and suicidal ideas horrible too but not every days Here : maybe conséquences of horrible symptôms and the facteur that I Am eanable to work (have à job) since almost 2 years. I'm almost eanable to drive since October 2019. I am à dépendant person living the sâme days since son long time. I have à lot of food intolérances and don't know what to eat. I must resist to not eat bad food or coffea at home. Feel me fool of privations. And... I feel me guilty to not stop cigarettes... 

 

Other symptoms are more bearable for me and I can accept it:

weakness

Aches in legs, arms, jaw

sensibilty to light and sounds (slight) 

nausea

Bowell burnings

aches tooth, feets, hands : slight not every day

fog in brain : rare

problems to speak

visual problems

eczéma

scratching of skull

 

 

 

 

 

[Vegalia]

Hello,

 

26 may :

 

sleep 11.30 pm to 6 am

wake anxious, nausea. Back, nek nape burnings and contracted and burning. 

Tension headache, muscles of jaw contracted, palpitations, bad breathing 

 

7 am : get up : stop nausea, palpitations and bad breathing, nervous

 

8. 30 am escitalopram 1,60 mg 

 

9 am prazepam 4,32 mg

 

11.am : rage, internal Akhatisy, more nervous

 

1.30 pm : eat

 

3 pm : prazepam 4,32 mg. Always nervous and rage, despair, less aches

 

6 pm : rage again aches increase feel liké stingling in head, anguish, palpitations and bad breathing during one hour.

 

7.30 pm : diner

 

8 pm : watch TV, make games in internet. Aches à little bit slight. 

No More rage and despair, but feel me hyper vigilant, nervous until sleep

 

9 pm : prazepam 4,32 mg. 

 

10.30 pm : aches increase, little palpitations and bad breathing during one hour

 

11 pm : go to bed, self care and sleep fast to 6 am. 

 

- Feel me in a new maniac épisode

First épisode : september 2018 15 days after start first anti depressant Venlafaxine 75 mg to end september 2018 after I reduced to 37,5 mg

2: middle october 2018 after I increased Venlafaxine to 75 mg  reduced after Sertraline bridge 3 weeks later

3 : end november after Sertraline 50 mg and reduced graduelle during my Sertraline taper : end in march 2019.

4 : end June 2019 after 3 month with Sertraline 25 mg and prazepam taper, increase again after start escitalopram 5 mg 15 July, end september 2019 after I reduced escitalopram too fast

6: may 2020....

 

. Before drugs : I had regular mood, was sometimes a little anxious, No rage, No Mania, not lunatic. 

 

. Current other symptoms

Weakness

Aches in legs, arms, jaws

Sensibilty to light and sounds (slight) 

Bowell burnings

aches tooth, feets, hands : slight not every day

fog in brain : rare

problems to speak

visual problems

eczéma

scratching of skull

Feeling of change in body temperature (but No change in reality if I take my température) 

Want to cry but always blocked 

Confusion

Dépression

Suicidal ideas

Intrusives images

 

Have à good day and take care. 

 

Vega. 

[Vegalia]

Signature is Ok. 

I will post my diary every days. 

I think keep same dose of prazepam, as you told me now. I was affraid with tolérance, sorry... I think reduce prazepam even if it micro taper is worse than tolérance with my rage and big agitation. You told me it. I know... 

I feel me really énervate 8-9/10 as adverse effect of escitalopram ? Rage become external too. I didn't Have it since august- beginning of september anymore. And now +++.

Should I reduce micro dose escitalopram ? 

 

Help would be appreciate. I know you Have got à lot to do on SA. Sorry to post so much... I'm so affraid... 

 

I'm very gratefull. 

 

Vega 

 

[Erell]

Coucou Vegalia, 

 

si je tente de résumer la situation (corrige moi si je me trompe) : 

 

- depuis le 8 Janvier 2020 garde la même dose d'Escitalopram, 1.60mg. Par contre, tu as continué à baisser régulièrement le Prazepam par peur d'entrer en tolérance.

 

- de mi-Mars à mi-Avril tu as constaté que tes symptômes s'amélioraient graduellement. Certains symptômes ont disparu, d'autres sont toujours là. Ce qui t'inquiète aujourd'hui c'est que l'intensité de certains symptômes (rage, akathasie, douleurs, anxiété-terreur) réaugmentent depuis mi-Avril et tu as la sensation de ne pas pouvoir tenir le coup.

 

- Aujourd'hui tu te demandes si tu dois faire quelque chose pour améliorer ta situation (par exemple diminuer l'Escitalopram)  ou si ta situation est "normale" et si la meilleure option est de simplement attendre sans rien modifier ?

 

Je vais demander l'avis des autres modérateurs-trices.

 

Mon avis : étant donné les nombreux changements qui ont eu lieu ces derniers mois, les symptômes que tu traverses me paraissent "normaux" dans la mesure où ils sont la manifestation d'un système nerveux très déstabilisé. Quand je relis tes posts, je ne vois rien d'inhabituel : il me semble que tu vis le schéma des fenêtres et des vagues.

Je sais à quel point ses symptômes peuvent être durs, épuisants. Courage Vega, tout ceci a une fin ❤️

 

English translation : 

 

if I try to summarize ( correct me if I'm wrong ) :

 

- since 8th January 2020 you're holding your Escitalopram dose (1.6mg). On another hand, you dropped Prazepam continuously because you were afraid of tolerance.

 

- from mid-March to mid-April, your symptoms faded gradually. Some symptoms even disappeared, while others are still there. Today, you're worried because intensity of some symptoms (rage, akathasia, body ashes, anxiety-terror) increase and you feel like you can cope.

 

- you're wondering if you have to do something to feel better (like reduce Escitalopram) or if your situation is a "normal" one and if your best option is to wait patiently for stabilisation.

 

My advice : considering all the changes made last few months, your symptoms sounds "normal" and are the expression of a destabilised CNS. When I read your posts, I don't see anything unusual : it sounds like you're going through a windows and waves pattern.

 

I know how hard and exhausting symptoms can be. Hang on Vega, it will get better eventually ❤️

 

 

[Vegalia]

Coucou, 

 

Merci infiniment, c'est en partie ça mais pas seulement. Si tel était le cas je penserais à une vague terrible mais normale, même si je ne peux pas la supporter. 

J'ai tellement de symptômes que c'est vraiment compliqué de résumer ... Je ne les mets même pas tous. 

 

- de mi mars à mi avril amélioration avec diminution de tous les symptômes environ 30% très vite en 4-5 jours alors que quelques jours avant, c'etait très dur je voulais mourir. Seule période d'amélioration globalement à peu près notable depuis septembre. Sinon aucune. 

 

- Je suis entrée dans une vague ensuite, d'accord. J'etais pourtant très confiante et optimiste malgré les symptômes encore très durs avant cette vague.

Cela fait plus d'un mois que cette vague à commencé, et c'est de plus en plus intense. 

Je me suis empiré très brutalement en 3 jours après un mois mieux. 

Les choses ont encore empiré graduellement puis très brutalement ces derniers jours. Ma dernière diminution de prazépam = - 0,195 mg sur la totalité de la dose journalière encours date du 11 mai. 

 

* Je suis très inquiet par le retour d'hypomanie que je n'avais plus depuis septembre, à la différence des autres symptômes décrits. Mauvaise réaction aux AD dès le départ, intolérance, avec plein d'autres symptômes très forts, limite syndrome sérotoninergique je pense, aurait necessité un arrêt immédiat en urgence d'AD. 

Voir plus haut mon schéma d'hypomanie induite par les AD. 

La rage est redevenue extérieure et non plus seulement interne, ainsi que mon énervement et ça dure depuis 3 jours presque toute la journée, ça je n'avais plus depuis septembre. 

*Je me sens encore plus énervée 2-3 heures après la prise du prazépam, alors que jusqu'à il y a un mois je n'avais jamais eu cet énervement qui empire 2 h après les doses, prazépam le calmait au contraire en général. Souvent l'agitation baisse une heure avant la prise suivante, mais pas hier ni aujourd'hui avant la prise de 15 h. Schéma inversé avec prazépam. 

 

Je pense que j'ai mal fait :

- d'augmenter escitalopram en janvier: n'a servi à rien. Ou alors il aurait fallu augmenter plus en septembre avant que j'arrive sur SA. 

- de diminuer par peur même très peu le prazépam: peut couvrir l'enervement probablement. 

 

-> Oui certains symptômes sont trop durs pour moi. 

Mais le retour d'hypomanie que je n'avais plus depuis septembre me fait poser des questions = si je maintiens ma dose d'escitalopram est ce que ça peut empirer? 

Le schéma qui s'est inversé avec prazepam m'inquiète beaucoup aussi. 

 

--> yes a part of symptoms are too hard for me. 

But return of hypomania that I didn't had anymore since September make me ask questions= if I keep 1,60 mg escitalopram can it get worse? 

Change of shema with prazepam worries me a lot : rage increase 2 hours after. 

 

 

Je pense avoir une situation très compliquée: intolérance + WD. Le plus compliqué à gérer. 

comment faire ? 

 

désolée pour la longueur. 

 

merci infiniment @ Erell

 

😘

 

Vega. 

 

edit ; new symptom now. Hard sensations of tingling in body,  like needles in arms, hands, legs, nek, skull... 

Poor CNS like CT...      

 

 

 

 

[Vegalia]

On 5/27/2020 at 8:34 AM, Vegalia said:

Feel me in a new maniac épisode

First épisode : september 2018 15 days after start first anti depressant Venlafaxine 75 mg to end september 2018 after I reduced to 37,5 mg

2: middle october 2018 after I increased Venlafaxine to 75 mg  reduced after Sertraline bridge 3 weeks later

3 : end november after Sertraline 50 mg and reduced graduelle during my Sertraline taper : end in march 2019.

4 : end June 2019 after 3 month with Sertraline 25 mg and prazepam taper, increase again after start escitalopram 5 mg 15 July, end september 2019 after I reduced escitalopram too fast

6: may 2020....

 

 

Salut @Erell

 

Peut être mon anglais n'est pas clair. Et je n'ai pas été assez précis dans les dates. 

 

1) septembre 2018 : l'hypomanie est apparue progressivement en une semaine après la première prise de venlafaxine, très forte au bout de deux semaines. Avec agitation, énervement très fort, besoin de bouger tout le temps, cerveau en ébullition. 

En parallèle :  deuxième jour de prise soudainement : nausées permanentes très fortes, migraines très fortes, diarrhée, 

Problèmes d'equilibre très forts deux heures après chaque prise, je tombais parfois, vertiges, zaps cérébraux très forts et nombreux, palpitations. Beaucoup de bleus,  goût atroce dans la bouche. Transpiration excessive. 

Tout ceci s'est calmé quelques jours après passage à 37,5 mg, sauf nombreux bleus que j'ai gardé très longtemps. Fin septembre 2018 fin de l'episode d'hypomanie. 

 

2) Mi octobre 2018, même schéma d'hypomanie : deux semaines après avoir repris  75 mg car ma psychiatre m'avait dit 37,5 mg n'est pas assez pour pouvoir arrêter l'anxiolytique ...

Devant cette mauvaise réaction, la psychiatre a changé et fait un pont Sertraline pour trouver un AD me convenant à dose suffisante (sans commentaire). Une semaine après le début du pont, l'hypomanie et l'enervement ont réduit progressivement. Je commence à avoir de grosses douleurs, aux bras, jambes parfois et des problèmes visuels. Fin de l'épisode d'hypomanie trois semaines plus tard début novembre 2018. 

 

3) Mi novembre 2018 nouvel épisode à 15 j de sertraline 50 mg, a progressivement augmenté

 

(= ma psychiatre admet enfin que je suis surdosee et qu'essayer un nouvel AD n'ira pas. Veut me passer à sertraline 25 mg, mais j'ai peur que ce soit trop rapide pour mon SNC. 

Durant cette période j'ai commencé à avoir mal aux bras très fort, puis aux jambes.) 

 

Réduction progressive de sertraline jusqu'à 25 mg sur 4 mois et demi. L'enervement baisse assez vite après la première réduction de 20%. L'hypomanie reste longtemps mais diminue progressivement au fil de cette réduction de sertraline, devient rapidement supportable même si désagréable. (Les autres réductions mensuelles seront moins fortes : 10% jusqu'à 7%) 

J'ai toujours mal aux bras, j'ai divers symptômes mais je dirais WD acceptable. Pic de symptômes 3 semaines après chaque réduction et se calme et la même chose tous les mois. Je suis en schéma de vagues et fenêtres très régulier. Et ma situation globale s'ameliore  de mois en mois. 

Fin de l'episode d'hypomanie mars-avril 2019.

 

4) Fin juin 2019 après plus de 3 mois maintenus à sertraline 25 mg et réduction de prazepam plus importante pour somnolence de plus en plus importante et invalidante 1h-1h30 après chaque prise de prazepam: nouvel épisode maniaque et l'enervement revient mais très doucement. C'est supportable, je pars même une semaine en vacances. 

 

(Je veux absolument reprendre le travail et je m'inquiète de l'hypomanie car je sais que je ne pourrai pas travailler si elle augmente encore et elle me fait très peur. Je m'inquiète de ne pas pouvoir réduire sertraline plus finement qu'1 mg car une personne me répète très sèchement que c'est très mal sur le Forum Français depuis que j'ai commencé à la diminuer, que je vais rater le sevrage de cette manière car ce n'est pas La méthode du Forum: critiques, moqueries, jusqu'au harcèlement alors que je ne demande rien, première fois de ma vie que je me sens harcelée, alors que j'ai pas d'autre choix que de procéder ainsi dans ma réduction

On m'avait proposé de changer d'AD pour avoir des gouttes pour être plus précise ( pas de sertraline en gouttes en France, diluer les gélules dans l'eau me brûlent l'estomac tout de suite, je n'arrive pas avec la balance de précision car la poudre est trop fine : tout essayé plusieurs fois) , j'ai dit deux fois : non, je réduirai sertraline petit à petit et je ne changerai que si je suis bloquée dans mon sevrage. Mais l'hypomanie m'a fait réfléchir trop et mal, je ne pensais qu'en fonction du boulot. Je me disais je ne dois pas rater mon sevrage et un Switch est risqué, comment faire ?

Alors je me dis si je suis mal quelques temps après un Switch, je dois le faire avant de reprendre le travail.J'ai déjà changé d'AD, c'etait dur quelques temps mais c'est passé, c'est ce que je croyais. 

Je fais des recherches comme je peux sur les AD liquides en France sur Internet. Le Forum français n'a pas beaucoup d'informations comme ici.J'avais deux choix : Prozac souvent conseillé, ou escitalopram. Je lis que le Prozac est stimulant et peut énerver alors j'ai peur. La psychiatre et ma psychologue me confirment que le Prozac peut induire de l'agressivité plus que les autres AD de même catégorie. J'ignore  à quel point escitalopram est si concentré par rapport aux autres AD, je l'ai découvert ici. Je regarde les équivalences sertraline/ escitalopram. Elles sont très imprécises dans ce que je trouve. J'hésite : Switch ou pas? 5 mg ou 4 mg, sachant que l'enervement revient ? 

Je ne pense qu'au travail et que je dois prendre une décision. Je change pour seroplex sur un coup de tête mais avec accord de  la psychiatre et je suis l'equivalence qu'elle me donne 5 mg.) 

15 juillet je change pour escitalopram 5 mg : première semaine mieux que jamais depuis que je prends des psychotropes, encore moins de symptômes, symptômes physiques 90% disparus! Mais ensuite très vite l'hypomanie augmente, l'enervement, l'agressivité en 2 jours. Alors je panique je réduis à 4 mg mais veux attendre à cette dose pour voir si changement. L'enervement augmente et on me dit de réduire presque tous les jours sur le Forum français on me fait peur, je ne sais pas pourquoi je les écoute encore une fois et non mon intuition première ) 

 

J'ai donc changé d'AD sertraline 25 mg--> escitalopram 5 mg le 15 juillet avec aggravation très rapide de l'hypomanie et de l'enervement pire que jamais et j'ai reduit très vite escitalopram. 

Fin de l'episode d'hypomanie debut septembre 2019

 

6) Début Mai 2020 : nouvel épisode d'hypomanie, en augmentation progressive puis rapide ces derniers jours. Énervement interne Et externe s'aggravant vite ces trois derniers jours. 

 

Je suis longue. Je m'excuse j'ai du mal à contrôler ça

Mon vrai moi quand même toujours un peu présent a fait une mise en page pour essayer d'aider. ^^

 

S'il y a besoin que je décrive mon Hypomanie, je me sens capable de le faire en quelques lignes. Mais je pense qu'elle est déjà perceptible avec ce post... 😱

 

Merci infiniment, mais prends soin de toi d'abord Erell.

 

Bisous. 

[Vegalia]

Hello,

 

 

27 may :

 

 

sleep 11.30 pm to 6 am

 

wake calme, nausea. Back, nek nape burnings and contracted. Make breathing exercice in bed. 

 

7 am : anxious, restlessness, énervate, Ruminations. Palpitations, bad breathing during one hour. 

Stop nausea.

 

7.30 am get up. 

 

8. 30 am escitalopram 1,60 mg 

 

9 am : prazepam 4,32 mg, aches in réduction. 

 

10 am : self care, less enervate. 

 

11.am : rage, internal Akhatisy, more nervous, mania. Despair, depression. 

 

1.30 pm : eat 3 little rice cakes and a compote, aches increase. 

 

3 pm : prazepam 4,32 mg. Always nervous and rage, despair, less aches, despair, want to do nothing, find no pleasure for nothing. Fatigue. 

Eat rice cake several times like a compulsive chewing urge, smoke compulsive too. Walk 5 mn in the garden. 

 

6 pm : rage again aches increase feel liké needles in head, arms, hands, legs. 

 

7.30 pm : diner

 

8 pm : watch TV, talk with messenger, Aches à little bit slight. 

 

No More rage and despair, but feel me hyper vigilant, and enervate until sleep

 

9 pm : prazepam 4,32 mg. 

 

10.pm : aches increase, little palpitations and bad breathing during one hour

 

11 pm : go to bed, self care and sleep fast 11.30 pm to 5.30 am. Little hypnagogic hallucinations. 

 

  Almost all day in internet to see informations about drugs. Bad idea but compulsive. 

 

--> hypomania :

is for me like a parasite that my real me can often not controle, even if I feel that my real me is always here and give me the good way and what to doing or not doing. 

Like the parasite who takes controle of Peter Parker if you know well spiderman. He became black, bad, euphoric, and aggressive, even he is fighting against the parasite. 

But in the end , even if it is doulourous, He wins the fight and the parasite go out. 

For me : 5th fight. My parasite is anti depressant. 

 

 

 

 

. Current other symptoms

 

Weakness

Aches in legs, arms, jaws

Sensibilty to light and sounds (slight) 

Bowell burnings

aches tooth, feets, hands : slight not every day

fog in brain : rare

Problems to speak

Visual problems

eczéma

Scratching of skull

Feeling of change in body temperature (but No change in reality if I take my température) 

Want to cry but always blocked 

Confusion

Dépression

Suicidal ideas

Intrusives image : always the same

Songs in head In loop. 

 

 

Have à good day and take care. 

 

 

 

Vega. 

[Altostrata]

On 1/7/2020 at 3:45 PM, Altostrata said:

 

You have a strong belief that your symptoms are from antidepressant withdrawal, but we cannot diagnose whether it's antidepressant withdrawal or benzo withdrawal from the symptoms. The symptoms are the same.

 

As you get older, you become more sensitive to where you have vulnerable places in your body. Stomach irritation from cigarette smoking can get worse. You might find "stomach burning" coincides with smoking a cigarette. Overall aches and pains can get worse. Very strongly advise you to reduce your cigarette smoking. This may take some months.

 

We don't have any solutions for your problems. You've only begun a stable drug schedule. You don't have to continue posting a daily symptom pattern unless there has been a significant change.

 

Have you made any changes regarding the cigarette smoking and stomach problems?

 

What is the significant change in your symptom pattern?

[Vegalia]

  

1 hour ago, Altostrata said:

 

Have you made any changes regarding the cigarette smoking and stomach problems?

 

What is the significant change in your symptom pattern?

 

Hello Altostrata, 

 

Thanks you so much. 

 

1. Yes. I reduced cigarettes - 7/j but since one week with symptôms I increase again but motivate to reduce again. I take care with my food. No coffee, no alcohol, (I drink only water) poor sugar, I try histamine diet, no gluten, no milk. 

I have always digestive problems but less. Before this wave I didn't had digestive problem anymore during one month. 

 

2. -Return of very hard hypomania. Didn't have since August 2019. Hypomania has been induced by antidepressants, I am sure of this. First episode of my life one week after my first antidepressants. 

All episodes was in the same time I increased or changed antidepressants or keep same dose longtime. Hypomania has always reduced and disappear after I reduced antidepressants. 

Maybe a strange coincidence? 

- I am more enervate 2-3 hours after each dose of prazepam since one month. Before I was less enervate after I took it or very drowsy when I took more of 15 mg prazepam. 

 

These two changes of symptoms patterns are worring me. 

 

New recent symptoms of stings in the body but it seems that it is frequent.
Also my veins come out enormously as swollen in my arms.

 

Thank you. 

 

Vega. 

 

 

 

 

[Altostrata]

What do you mean by hypomania?

 

Do you have other health problems, such as diabetes or low thyroid?

[Vegalia]

9 hours ago, Altostrata said:

What do you mean by hypomania?

 

Hello Altostra, 

 

I explained hypomnia in my precedents posts and in end of my last diary and illustrated it with a short video of a film. 

22 hours ago, Vegalia said:

-> hypomania :

is for me like a parasite that my real me can often not controle, even if I feel that my real me is always here and give me the good way and what to doing or not doing. ... 

Feel me over stimulated, euphoric, think too much, speak too much and fast if hypomania is moderate, I have too compulsives attitudes, can feel me very enervate or agressive, think I could be violent, can take impulsive decisions, I start several things at the same time, need to move, difficultt to stay in the same place, when hypomania is stronger. 

 

I feel hypomania increase very fast these last daysdays,  to strong for me. I'm afraid. Very hard to fight against it, doulourous. 

 

I never had such problems before drugs. Very stable mood : that is what my family, friends, coworkers was saying of me before drugs. 

My psychiatrist is saying since long time I am bipolar. I am not. I feel me like when I have hypomania, but I know it is drugs. 

When I Sayed it too family or friends they answered : " You? Bipolar? Impossible! "

 

 

Quote

 

- Feel me in a new maniac épisode 

First épisode : has begun september 2018 one week after start first anti depressant Venlafaxine 75 mg stop end september 2018 after I reduced to 37,5 mg

2: has begun middle october 2018 after I increased Venlafaxine to 75 mg  reduced and stop after Sertraline bridge 3 weeks later

3 : has begun end november after Sertraline 50 mg and reduced graduelle during my Sertraline taper : stop in march 2019.

4 : has begun end June 2019 after 3 month with Sertraline 25 mg and prazepam taper, increase again after start escitalopram 5 mg 15 July, stop september 2019 after I reduced escitalopram too fast

5 : has begun may 2020....

 

 

I explained it to @Erell in French because I think I'm not clear in English and was not precize with dates but Erell must take care of herself first. 

 

9 hours ago, Altostrata said:

Do you have other health problems, such as diabetes or low thyroid?

 

No, I had several blood tests for it, the last was 10 days ago : I don't have these health problems. No diabetes, thyroid ok (1, 5), hepatic check normal. 

I think to ask for a vitamins test maybe. 

 

Thank you Altostrata. 

 

Vega. 

[Vegalia]

Hello,

 

 

 

28 may :

 

sleep 11.30 pm to 6 am

 

wake calm,  Back, nek nape burnings and contracted and burning. 

Tension headache, muscles of jaw contracted,. Slightly palpitations, bad breathing during 30 mn. 

 

7 am : get up : restlessness,  a lot of thinks in loop, enervate, scared., smoke a lot. 

 

8. 30 am escitalopram 1,60 mg 

 

9 am prazepam 4,32 mg aches reduce, feel me more calm. 

 

11.am : enervate, thinks in loop and a song in loop. 

 

1.30 pm : eat

 

2 pm : Kinesitherapy at home. Aches increase, feel like inflammation. 

 

3 pm : prazepam 4,32 mg. Always nervous. Eat rice cakes several times compulsive, smoke a lot. 

 

4 pm : go to walk in garden but just 5 mn : aches too hard. 

 

6 pm : less enervate,  will water the garden. Difficult with aches and bad breathing, but happy (since 3 days I didn't it) Have positive thinks. Tingling in body. 

 

7.30 pm : diner feel me normal with neuro-emotion during 3 hours : wow🤩

 

8 pm : watch TV,  speak in messenger. Aches à little bit sligh. 

 

9. pm : prazepam 4,32 mg. 

 

10.pm : aches back, nek, head very hard. Tinglings. Palpitations, bad breathing.. 

 

11.pm : feel me a little enervate again. 

 

11.30 pm : go to bed, very short self care because fast asleep. 

 

Have a good day. 

 

Vega

 

[Erell]

Vegalia, I tried to summarise all your infos. It will be easier for the team to understand.

 

Vegalia drugs and symptoms history : 

 

Summer 2018 : 

 

Started Venlafaxine 75mg LP and XANAX 

Symptoms : restlessness / agitation/ nauseas / headaches 

 

September 2018 : 

 

Dropped from Venlafaxine 75mg LP to 37.5mg to calm down agitation/restlessness

Symptoms faded with the drop

 

October 2018 : 

 

Switched from Venlafaxine to Sertraline 25mg (psychiatrist advices, in order to find the 'good' AD)

With the switch, strong body aches appeared.

 

November 2018 :

 

Updose 25mg Sertraline to 50mg Sertraline.

restlessness/ agitation came back : reduced Sertraline back to 25mg gradually.

 

July 2019 :

 

Switch from 25mg Sertraline to 5mg Escitalopram (in order to have a liquid AD form and be able to taper)

Hard restlessness and agitation came back

 

Then reduced regurlaly and quickly Escitalopram in order to reduce symptoms. Reduced Prazepam in the mean time.

She also tappered this year l-tryptophan and lithium citrate.

 

---> Vegalia is worried because, after feeling better March-April 2020, her symptoms of agitation and restlessness are increasing again.

---> During these months, Vegalia tappered regularly Prazepam in order to avoid Withdrawal tolerancy.

 

She is seaking advices about : 

 

- as she thinks she had adverse reactions everytime she took and AD, should she reduce escitalopram even if not stable ?

- or should she hold her doses and wait for stabilisation ?

 

 

[Vegalia]

@Erell Hi, 

 

Thank you so much. 

What's going on? Even in French I'm not clear, confused. 

I'm so sorry.... 

You help me à lot , but I must make corrections. 

 

Look please :

 

 

Quote

 

Oui certains symptômes sont trop durs pour moi. 

Mais le retour d'hypomanie que je n'avais plus depuis septembre me fait poser des questions = si je maintiens ma dose d'escitalopram est ce que ça peut empirer? 

Le schéma qui s'est inversé avec prazepam m'inquiète beaucoup aussi. 

 

--> yes a part of symptoms are too hard for me. 

But return of hypomania that I didn't had anymore since September make me ask questions= if I keep 1,60 mg escitalopram can it get worse? 

Change of shema with prazepam worries me a lot : rage increase 2 hours after. 

 

 

Je pense avoir une situation très compliquée: intolérance + WD. Le plus compliqué à gérer. 

comment faire ? 

 

 

Take care. 

 

Vega. 

 

 

On dirait que je ne suis plus capable de me faire comprendre même en français alors que les choses sont claires pour moi. 

Que m'arrive-t-il? 😭 Je ne sais plus m'exprimer dans ma langue maternelle on dirait... 

Je vais me calmer et reprendre ton résumé avec la mise en page, corriger, notamment avec mes réelles préoccupations. la chronologie qui n'est pas tout à fait celle ci. 

Je serai succincte, je vais tout faire pour. 

Tu m'as beaucoup aidée. 

 

Encore merci. 

 

😘

 

[Vegalia]

Vegalia drugs and symptoms history : 

 

Summer 2018 : 

29 july : XANAX (try to stop 2 times but anguish too hard after each try, try first time after only 10 days with 0,125 mg x2) 

29 august : started Venlafaxine 75mg LP (psychiatrist advice in order to be able to stop benzo) 

Symptoms 2 days after started Venlafaxine : nauseas / headaches/brain zaps/diarrhea, equilibrium problems/sweat/ bad taste in mouth.

After one week : restlessness / agitation/ hypomania / bruises

All symptoms very hard 8-9/10.

 

18 september 2018 : 

Dropped from Venlafaxine 75mg LP to 37.5mg to calm down agitation/restlessness

Symptoms faded with the drop quickly. Feel me almost 100% normal. 

 

4 October 2018 : 

Updose to 75 mg (advice of new psychiatrist to be able to stop benzo...) 

restlessness/ agitation/ hypomania came back

 

18 October 2018 :

Bridge Sertraline = Venlafaxine 37,5 mg LP + Sertraline 25mg 2 weeks (psychiatrist advices, in order to find the 'good' AD)

With the bridge, strong body aches appeared : arms very strong and legs. 

restlessness/ agitation/ hypomania  faded

 

November 2018 :

50mg Sertraline.

restlessness/ agitation/ hypomania came back

Reduced Sertraline to 25mg gradually until middle April , reduced prazepam 2%/21 days in order to avoid benzo tolerancy in the same time: 

restlessness/ agitation/ hypomania reduced and disappeared. WD normal. But feel more and more hard drowsiness each time after taking prazepam. 

Stoped l-tryptophan and lithium citrate : no problem

 

May 2019 :

Reduced prazepam 3%/7 days, then 5%/8 days

Drowsiness reduced, memory 90% recovered, mood normal, always aches in arms but less and less. Slightly symptoms. 90% normal. 

 

End June 2019 :

Hypomania/ restlessness/ agitation come back. 

 

July 2019 :

 

Switch from 25mg Sertraline to 5mg Escitalopram (in order to have a liquid AD form and be able to taper)

Hard restlessnes, agitation, hypomnia came back. Difficult to control me. 

 

Then reduced regulary and quickly Escitalopram in order to reduce symptoms. Take l-tryptophan and lithium citrate again. 

Reduced Prazepam in the mean time 2%/21 days

Digestive problems, head, back, nek hard aches:new

Hypomania/ restlessness/ agitation disappear. 

 

She also tappered this year l-tryptophan and lithium citrate.

 

---> Vegalia is worried because:

Hypomania come back ( I didn't have it since september 2019 anymore) and it increase quickly. Affraid to become violent, agressive,  dangerous for the others or myself, not to control me. 

Since 1 month she is more enervate 2 hours after taking prazepam, before she was less enervate or drowsy 1h-1h30 after taking prazepam

After feeling better March-April 2020, her symptoms are increasing again very strong. 

 

---> During these months, Vegalia tappered regularly Prazepam in order to avoid Withdrawal tolerancy 1%/21 days

 

She is seaking advices about : 

 

- as she thinks she had adverse reactions everytime she took and AD, should she reduce escitalopram even if not stable ?

- or should she hold her doses and wait for stabilisation ?

- What about change of symptoms after taking benzo? 

 

 

Thank you so much. 

[Altostrata]

When did hypomania come back? Did you make any drug changes recently?

 

4 hours ago, Vegalia said:

May 2019 :

Reduced prazepam 3%/7 days, then 5%/8 days

Drowsiness reduced, memory 90% recovered, mood normal, always aches in arms but less and less. Slightly symptoms. 90% normal. 

 

End June 2019 :

Hypomania/ restlessness/ agitation come back. 

 

July 2019 :

 

Switch from 25mg Sertraline to 5mg Escitalopram (in order to have a liquid AD form and be able to taper)

Hard restlessnes, agitation, hypomnia came back. Difficult to control me. 

 

Then reduced regulary and quickly Escitalopram in order to reduce symptoms. Take l-tryptophan and lithium citrate again. 

Reduced Prazepam in the mean time 2%/21 days

Digestive problems, head, back, nek hard aches:new

Hypomania/ restlessness/ agitation disappear. 

 

She also tappered this year l-tryptophan and lithium citrate.

 

It appears you were stable on 25mg sertraline since mid-April 2018 and whatever prazepam you were taking then.

 

When you reduced prazepam, you got withdrawal from it in June 2019.

 

When you switched from 25mg sertraline to 5mg escilatopram in July 2019, you got withdrawal syndrome from a failed switch.

 

When you reduced escilatopram and prazepam after July 2019, you made the existing withdrawal syndrome from prazepam and sertraline worse.

 

Smoking also seems to make withdrawal symptoms worse.

 

The

[Vegalia]

Hello Altostrata, 

 

1 hour ago, Altostrata said:

When did hypomania come back? Did you make any drug changes recently?

 

I think beginning of may 1 month ago but slowly (Buy little things not really necessary on  internet, pay a little less attention to personal care and a little bit food. Feel myself grow wings after improvement. Feel stronger than WD and wave even if I really know I am not!) 

And faster 5 last days. 

 

Last change of drugs : prazepram 11 may : - 0,195 mg/ 13,135 mg. 

(I changed my signature, I hope it is better to read) 

 

1 hour ago, Altostrata said:

It appears you were stable on 25mg sertraline since mid-April 2018 and whatever prazepam you were taking then.

Yes, I was and better and better until end of June. 

 

1 hour ago, Altostrata said:

 

When you reduced prazepam, you got withdrawal from it in June 2019.

 Hypomania began slightly end of June.

I wondered me if it was benzo withdrawal or the fact to stay long time at the same dose antidepressant + taper prazepam who helped me with hypomania and restlessness induced antidepressants. 

 

1 hour ago, Altostrata said:

When you switched from 25mg sertraline to 5mg escilatopram in July 2019, you got withdrawal syndrome from a failed switch.

I was sure of it + too hight dose of escitalopram? I saw equivalence here were about 25 mg sertraline= 4,5 mg escitalopram. 

 

1 hour ago, Altostrata said:

When you reduced escilatopram and prazepam after July 2019, you made the existing withdrawal syndrome from prazepam and sertraline worse.

Yes!

(And and this so fast! 

15 July Escitalopram 5mg, 20 July 4mg, 22 July 3,25mg , 23 july 2,5mg,  25 july 2,25mg, 8 August, 2 mg 16 August, 1,75mg 20 August, 1,50mg, 12 sept 1,25mg .... ) 

My state get brutally worse and unbearable end of September 2019:  WD X 10 ! 

 

1 hour ago, Altostrata said:

Smoking also seems to make withdrawal symptoms worse.

I think too. My CNS is more fragile. 

 

Hypomania could be now withdrawal and no more induce by antidepressants? 

Because it was an adverse effect, no doubt possible. 

 

Thank you very much. 

 

Vega. 

 

 

 

[Altostrata]

34 minutes ago, Vegalia said:

Last change of drugs : prazepram 11 may : - 0,195 mg/ 13,135 mg. 

 

Please explain what this means. Did you increase prazepam from 0.195mg per day to 13.135mg per day? @Erell

[Vegalia]

@Altostrata

 

From 20 april  I took 4,385 mg x3 every days, from 11 may I take 4,32 mg x3 every days. = I reduced. 

 

 

[Altostrata]

Why did you reduce prazepam? @Erell

[Vegalia]

6 hours ago, Vegalia said:

 

---> During these months, Vegalia tappered regularly Prazepam in order to avoid Withdrawal tolerancy 1%/21 days

 

 

On 5/27/2020 at 4:00 PM, Vegalia said:

Signature is Ok. 

I will post my diary

 

I think to keep the same dose of prazepam, as you told me now. I was affraid with tolérance, sorry... I think that to reduce prazepam even if it is micro taper is worse than tolérance, with my rage and big agitation. You told me it. I know... 

 

I feel me really énervate 8-9/10 as adverse effect of escitalopram ? Rage become external too. I didn't Have it since august- beginning of september anymore. And now 

Should I reduce micro dose escitalopram ? 

 

Help would be appreciate. I know you Have got à lot to do on SA. Sorry to post so much... I'm so affraid... 

 

I'm very gratefull. 

 

Vega 

 

@Altostrata

 

Thank you. 

 

Vega

[Vegalia]

Good morning., 

 

29 may 2020 :

 

sleep :  midnight - 6 am

 

Wake calm, Back, nek nape burnings and contracted 

Tension headache +++, muscles of jaw contracted.Slightly palpitations,bad breathing during one hour

 

7 am : get up : restlesness 8/10 smoke a lot. 

 

8. 30 am : escitalopram 1,60 mg 

 

9 am : prazepam 4,32 mg  

 

10.30 am : rest in bed and self care, calm me a little and aches reduced a little. 

 

Noon : get up restlesness 8/10, headache +++, took 1 mg paracetamol

 

1.30 pm : eat

 

3 pm : prazepam 4,32 mg. Bad breathing

 

4.30 pm : rest in bed and self care, symptoms reduced a little, feel asleep. 

 

6 pm : get up, restlesness 8/10, anguish 7/10, aches 8/10, bad breathing during one hour

 

8.30 pm : diner, restlesness 6/10, anguish 4/10, aches 7/10

 

9 pm : prazepam 4,32 mg. 

 

10 pm :  Palpitations, bad breathing until sleep. Restlessness and anguish not changed until sleep

 

11.30 pm : go to bed,  self care, sleep

 

--> Smoked 17 cigarettes. 

 

--> hard restlesness all day long, difficult to control me, aches +++,  rest with self cares help a little, but I am worse after. Want to rest in bed all day or die to stop it. Saying me all day long : I will get better one day. 

 

-->Other symptoms :

Weakness

Aches in legs, arms, jaws

Sensibilty to light and sounds (slight) 

Bowell burnings (slight) 

Nausae (slight) 

eczéma

Feeling of change in body temperature (slight) 

Want to cry but always blocked 

Confusion (slight) 

Dépression 

Hypomania : new

Anhedonia : new

Intrusives images

Songs in head In loop. 

 

Have a good day. 

 

 

Vega

[Vegalia]

Good morning, 

 

30 may 2020 :

 

sleep : midnight - 6.30am

 

Wake calm, Back, nek nape burnings and contracted, headache

Slightly palpitations,bad breathing during one hour

 

7 am : get up : restlesness 8/10 until 6 pm. 

 

8. 30 am : escitalopram 1,60 mg 

 

9.30 am : prazepam 4,32 mg  

Anguish 7/10 (have had a stressful event)

Do some housework

 

11 am : rest in bed and self care, calm me not a lot, aches reduce not a lot. 

 

Noon : get up restlesness 9/10, internal Akhatisy : crisis. Desperate. Bad ideas

 

1.30 pm : eat

Other stressful and sad event

 

3 pm : prazepam 4,32 mg

Do some housework, little gardening and walk in the garden

 

6 pm : restlessness 5/10, anguish 5/10

 

7 pm : cook, will wat the garden, bad breathing during 30 mn. 

 

8. pm : diner, restlesness 2/10, anxious 1/10, aches 5/10 : almost window with neuro-emotions. All symptoms bearable for me. 

 

9 pm : prazepam 4,32 mg. 

 

11 pm : Palpitations, bad breathing until sleep. Restlessness 5/10,  aches 6/10, legs burning. 

 

11.30 pm : go to bed, self care, sleep

 

--> Smoked 17 cigarettes. (reduction in progress) 

--> hard restlesness all until 6 pm, difficult to control me, aches +++, I forced myself a lot today. 

 

-->Other symptoms :

Weakness

Aches in legs, arms, jaws (slight) 

Sensibilty to light and sounds (slight) 

Bowell burnings (slight) 

Nausae (slight) 

eczéma

Feeling of change in body temperature (slight) 

Want to cry but always blocked 

Confusion (slight) 

Dépression 

Hypomania : new

Anhedonia : new : less than yesterday

Intrusives images

Songs in head In loop. 

 

Have a good day. 

 

Vega. 

[Altostrata]

Vegalia, we keep telling you not to change your drugs but you keep changing your drugs. We cannot repair that here, sorry.

[Vegalia]

50 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

Vegalia, we keep telling you not to change your drugs but you keep changing your drugs. We cannot repair that here, sorry.

 Hello Altostrata, I understand. 

 

I reduced prazepam : 1,29 mg total dose in 8 months. I thought It was not a lot. 

I came in SA in October to have advices with reinstatement of escitalopram. 5 mg was too much, 1,50 mg maybe not enough... Maybe it was not to late. 

 

For benzo last days I wondered me if someone had idea with change of pattern : rage after instead of calm. 

 

I regret to not come here before July. I thought that a solution was maybe possible to have less WD for just 2 months with bad changed with drugs. Solution is now to wait. 

 

This forum is good for me for self care and a lot of informations. 

 

I understand, Altostrata, don't be sorry. 

 

I'm very grateful for all the time the personal spent to try to help me. 

You, @Shep @Erell @Gridley @Sassenach    and all people who supported me. 

Thank you so much. 

 

Take care. 💐

 

Lætitia.

[Amira]

Hello, Vegalia.

 

just passing by to check how are you doing ❤️

 

 

Amira

[Vegalia]

12 hours ago, Amira123 said:

Hello, Vegalia.

 

just passing by to check how are you doing ❤️

 

 

Amira

Hello Amira, 

 

Thanks for your  message. So nice.

 

it is very difficult for me, but we must keep hope. 

 

Courage and take care. ❤️

 

Vega.