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rola weaning deroxat

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rola
hello in deroxat withdrawal 1O mg
I am currently at 1.58 mg
I had to go up my dose because too many adverse effects
I made a reduction of 3% over 1 month
I just discovered your site
i would like to know how to use The basic Brassmonkey Slide Method 
I'm French I do not understand English I use the translator
Thanks for your help

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Gridley

Welcome to SA, rola.

 

I have some questions, please.

 

1. Are you tapering every month at a rate of 3% of current dose (right now your current dose is 1.58mg) or 3% every month of your original dose of 10mg?

 

We recommend tapering no more than 10% of CURRENT DOSE every four weeks.

 

 http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1024-why-taper-by-10-of-my-dosage/

 

2.  You said you had go up in your dose because of adverse effects.  Adverse effects are an immediate very bad reaction to a drug.  Is that what you experienced?  In this situation, you would want to decrease, not increase, the dose.

 

3. I think you are talking about withdrawal symptoms, which occur when you taper the drug too quickly.  What are your symptoms?

 

What is withdrawal syndrome.

 

4. Are you tapering using liquid or weighing tablets?

 

5. When did you increase the dose to 1.58mg and from what dose?

 

Here is our link on tapering derogate (Paxil):

 

Tips for tapering off Paxil (paroxetine)

 

Here is information on the Brassmonkey slide taper:


The Brassmonkey Slide Method of Micro-tapering

 

This is your Introduction topic, where you can answer my questions, ask your own questions nd connect with other members.  I'm glad you found your way here.

 

 

 

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rola

hello gridley 

Hello,
thank you for your reply
I use deroxat syrup 20mg for 10 ml
I reduce my starting dose by 3% every month
so I always put 1.5 ml of deroxat in 25 ml of water and I make a reduction of 3% every month 
Step 21
0.82 ml x 3.00% = 0.02 ml
0.82 - 0.02 = 0.79 ml
Titration (calculations):
For one ml, we have 1.50 /25.00 ml = 0.06000
We keep: 0.79 / 0.06000 = 13.19
We remove: 25.00 - 13.19 = 11.81
Titration: 11.81 ml to remove. There remains: 13.19 ml to drink.

Tier 22
0.79 ml x 3.00% = 0.02 ml
0.79 - 0.02 = 0.77 ml
Titration (calculations):
For one ml, we have 1.50 /25.00 ml = 0.06000
We keep: 0.77 / 0.06000 = 12.79
We remove: 25.00 - 12.79 = 12.21
Titration: 12.21 ml to remove. There remains: 12.79 ml to drink.

Bearing 23
0.77 ml x 3.00% = 0.02 ml
0.77 - 0.02 = 0.74 ml
Titration (calculations):
For one ml, we have 1.50 /25.00 ml = 0.06000
We keep: 0.74 / 0.06000 = 12.41
We remove: 25.00 - 12.41 = 12.59
Titration: 12.59 ml to remove. There remains: 12.41 ml to drink.

Step 24
0.74 ml x 3.00% = 0.02 ml
0.74 - 0.02 = 0.72 ml
Titration (calculations):
For one ml, we have 1.50 /25.00 ml = 0.06000
We keep: 0.72 / 0.06000 = 12.04
We remove: 25.00 - 12.04 = 12.96
Titration: 12.96 ml to remove. There remains: 12.04 ml to drink.

Step 25
0.72 ml x 3.00% = 0.02 ml
0.72 - 0.02 = 0.70 ml
Titration (calculations):
For one ml, we have 1.50 /25.00 ml = 0.06000
We keep: 0.70 / 0.06000 = 11.67
We remove: 25.00 - 11.67 = 13.33
Titration: 13.33 ml to remove. It remains: 11.67 ml to drink.
I arrived at Step 25 in September, I went back to Step 23 on September 27 because too much anxiety attack I can not drive anymore
the anxiety always present I am increased to step 21

why should not we increase?

 

i would like to know if i should not reduce the percentage
and if I have to always put 1.5 ml in 25 ml of water
I do not take any supplements
I wish you a good day
see you soon

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Altostrata

Hello, rola. I'll ask  @brassmonkey to check your calculations.

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rola

hello altostrata

thanks for you reply

😀

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brassmonkey

Hi Rola-- your calculations look fine.

 

Yes you should continue to use 1.5mL in 25mL of water, we need to keep things as consistent as possible.

 

I don't think you need to lower the percentage, but rather lengthen the time between reductions. I think every 6 weeks would work better.

 

Tell me about the anxiety attacks.  When did they start? How intense are they? How long do they last?

 

As we reduce the dose that we are taking our bodies get use to working with that amount and become sensitive to the drug.  If we increase the drug a lot the body doesn't know how to handle it and reacts badly.  A very small increase can sometimes relieve intense symptoms, but a large increase is more likely to cause even worse symptoms.  It then takes a very long time to restabilize before we can start to reduce again.

 

If you have increased back to step 21 then you will need to hold at this level for several months to let your body stabilize and your symptoms settle down before you can start to taper again.

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rola

 

hi brasmonkey

first of all thank you for your advice so my panic attacks started I think when I changed level (25) to 1.4 mg deroxat at least September these attackers manifest themselves when I drive exclusively heart that accelerate, trouble of sight, and I am obliged to stop what I can.

I do not dare take the car for fear of another crisis of anxiety it lasts all the time I roll, I try to breathe and it stops when I get home so I went to the pharmacy to buy magnesium associated with rhodolia it's called magnesium dstress a day I do not support it I was like an electric battery  

I hope not to be too much because I am since yesterday at 1.58 mg level 21 also I thought that we should not stay more than 30 days on the same level I'll listen to you and stabilize myself with this dose and see what it gives I just want to drive after other symptoms I usually live with here and good day
i hope that the translator does his job well and that you understand how i would like to speak english but it is not difficult i just have notions

do you think that with the deroxat we can do a percentage of 2.5%

Thank you and good day

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rola
because I am at 3% in one month 

la méthode de base Brassmonkey Slide consiste en quatre (4) réductions hebdomadaires de 2,5% consécutives avec une période supplémentaire de deux (2) semaines.   Cela donne une réduction totale de 10% sur six (6) semaines.   Bien que ce ne soit pas le plan de réduction standard, il est très proche.   La suspension de deux (2) semaines supplémentaires est très nécessaire pour laisser les effets cumulatifs des quatre (4) réductions s'installer et les choses revenir à leur niveau de base avant de tenter la réduction suivante.

 

Ainsi, le calendrier de réduction ressemble à ceci:

 

            Semaine 1 réduire 2,5%

            Semaine 2 réduire un supplément de 2,5% (pour un total de 5%)

            Semaine 3 réduire un supplément de 2,5% (pour un total de 7,5%)

            Semaine 4 réduire un supplément de 2,5% (pour un total de 10%)

            Semaines 5,6 Tenir au dernier niveau de réduction

thanks 😉

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rola
Hello
the previous message is not passed apparently I said that I did not understand the method above
thanks

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brassmonkey

Hi Rola--  Your english is quite understandable, so there are no problems there.  Also the translation of the Brassmonkey Slide Method into French is quite good, I could understand it even with my limited grasp pf the language.

 

The Brassmonkey Slide Method is designed to provide a large reduction in medication as quickly as possible while keeping the symptoms associated with the reduction to a minimum.  It has been found that a reduction of 10% of the previous dose is about the biggest reduction a person can make without causing major symptoms.  There will be some, but they are a lot worse if a person does a bigger reduction.  We have also found that the fastest a persons brain can accept that reduction is four (4) weeks.  If you go faster then the symptoms build up and cause a major outbreak of severe symptoms that can take a very long time to resolve.  That is why the recommended taper that SA provides is 10% every four (4) weeks.

 

The big drawback is that reducing 10% all at once causes a very large shock of symptoms a few days later.  The idea behind the Brassmonkey Slide Method is to spread that shock out over several weeks by doing four (4) smaller reductions on successive weeks until the desired amount has been decreased.  The 10% reduction is divided into four (4) parts and a new part is added each week.  So you start by reducing 2.5% the first week, 5% the second, 7.5% the third and finally 10% on the fourth week.  Because the symptoms don't fully resolve two (2) more weeks are added at the 10% level to let that happen.

 

It doesn't have to be a 10% reduction, any percentage can be used.  It just shouldn't be larger than 10%. It is quite common for people to use a total reduction of 5%, or even as small as 1%.  It depends on how comfortable people are with the resulting symptoms.  However, decreasing the percentage will increase the time it takes to completely get off of the drug. So a 5% reduction will take twice as long as a 10% reduction and a 2.5% reduction will take four (4) times as long.  For a time reference the standard 10% Brassmonkey Slide Method has a half life of nine (9) months.  This means that if you are currently taking 10mgai for your dose, in nine (9) months you will be taking 5mgai and in a year and a half (18 months) you would be taking 2.5mgai and so on.

 

I hope that helps you understand.

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rola

 

Hi

yes i have almost understood I would like to try this method which seems good to me but I am currently 1.58mg of deroxat so 0.79ML knowing that I always put 1.5 ml every month in 25 ml and a percentage of 3%.

i would like to try to do your method when i would stabilize because i still have anxieties i will stay at 1.58 mg for 6 weeks as you advised me;

but the problem is that I entered the data in the software and as I do not understand English it is difficult to use it is it possible to make me a plan when I would have finished the 6 weeks and if I'm fine if you do not mind

thank you very much in all the cases of the time that you granted us see you soon

😉

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rola
On 10/10/2019 at 13:40, Altostrata said:

Bonjour rola Je demanderai à   @brassmonkey  de vérifier vos calculs.

 

thanks j hope you're fine

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rola

Hi

yes i have almost understood I would like to try this method which seems good to me but I am currently 1.58mg of deroxat so 0.79ML knowing that I always put 1.5 ml every month in 25 ml and a percentage of 3%.

i would like to try to do your method when i would stabilize because i still have anxieties i will stay at 1.58 mg for 6 weeks as you advised me;

but the problem is that I entered the data in the software and as I do not understand English it is difficult to use it is it possible to make me a plan when I would have finished the 6 weeks and if I'm fine if you do not mind

thank you very much in all the cases of the time that you granted us see you soon

😉

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Erell

Coucou Rola!

Si j'ai bien compris, Ton anxiété est surtout liée à l'extérieur et au fait de prendre la voiture. Je t'invite à faire un tour sur le site déploietesailes : c'est un forum en Français qui propose des outils pour l'agoraphobie. Les conseils ne sont pas forcément faciles à mettre en oeuvre quand on vit des symptômes de sevrage, mais je les trouve intéressants. 

 

Bonne journée!

 

("Hi Rola

If I understood Well, you Feel anxiety mostly when you go outside or try To drive your car. I invite you To take a look at the website déploietesailes, it is in French. You will find on it a lot of tools To deal with agoraphobia. They are not always easy To practice while you suffer from WD symptoms, but I think they are interesting.

 

Have a good day! )

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rola
21 minutes ago, Erell said:

Coucou Rola!

Si j'ai bien compris, Ton anxiété est surtout liée à l'extérieur et à prendre la voiture. Je m'invite à faire un tour sur le site déploietesailes: c'est un forum en anglais qui propose des outils pour l'agoraphobie. Les conseils ne sont pas forcément faciles à mettre en oeuvre quand on parle de symptômes de sevrage, mais que je trouve intéressants. 

 

Bonne journée!

 

("Bonjour Rola

Si j'ai bien compris, vous ressentez de l'anxiété surtout lorsque vous sortez ou essayez de conduire votre voiture. Je vous invite à consulter le site Web déploietesailes, il est en français. Vous y trouverez beaucoup d'outils pour faire face à l'agoraphobie. Ils ne sont pas toujours faciles à pratiquer lorsque vous souffrez de symptômes de la MW, mais je pense qu’ils sont intéressants.

 

Bonne journée! )

salut erell 

je connaissais ce site et merci 

j essaye de vaincre mes peurs 

merci pour ton aide malgré ton état ,on va s 'en sortir je crois qu 'on a été trop vite 

je t embrasse passe une belle journée 😘

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rola

@Altostrata 

 

Hello,
today it's been 6 days since I reassembled my dose
I feel like an electric battery
as if I had given a new treatment to my body
I usually do naps for 2 hours and the nothing is not tired
impossible to make my brain is boiling
is this a good sign?
thanks

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Altostrata

What time of day do you take your drugs, what dosages? How do you feel shortly afterward?

 

Did you increase the dosage of something?

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rola
55 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

À quelle heure prenez-vous vos médicaments, quelles doses? Comment vous sentez-vous peu de temps après?

 

Avez-vous augmenté le dosage de quelque chose?

Hello altostrata
ihope you are well😊
I take deroxat 1.58mg in the morning around 8am see 9H
I feel as if I have taken something I do not know how to explain it
I was at 1.48mg and I reassembled the dose at 1,58mg cf my signature 
because a lot  d anxiety and impossibility of driving (fear) thank you

 

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rola

@Altostrata@brassmonkey 

 

Hello Nobody to answer me thank you

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Altostrata

Neither of us is much of a superhuman, we're not watching this site 24 hours a day.

 

Do you feel better or worse since you've increased Deroxat dosage?

 

Please try to explain how you feel different after you take it each morning.

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rola

 

Hello

thank you for your reply I suspect you do not monitor the site especially since there is jet lag sorry 

 

since I took over I'm going a little better but 
I feel like an electric battery
as if I had given a new treatment to my body

thanks 

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rola
@
Hello ,
I would like to know what I can take to appease anxiety.
I managed to drive even take the road before yesterday
but today it's impossible to worry again
I started fish oil Wednesday
thank you

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Sassenach

Hello Rola

Here are the instructions for the Brassmonkey Microtaper.

Ici les instructions pour Brassmonkey mini taper.

 

 

Cet outil construit la méthode de microtape de diapositive par Brassmonkey, disponible sur https://www.survivingantidepressants.org. Il diminue les valeurs d'un pourcentage défini chaque semaine pendant 4 semaines, suivies d'une période de maintien configurable. Le montant réduit diminue progressivement avec le temps, un peu comme les intérêts composés en sens inverse.

Instructions:
1. Entrez votre dose de départ en mg
2. Entrez le pourcentage de diminution par semaine
3. Entrez le nombre de semaines à tenir à la fin du cycle de 4 semaines.
4. Cliquez sur le calendrier de construction

http://www.taperoff.co/

 

Si vous avez encore problemes, dites moi.

 

Your symptoms are normal W/D and it is only a week since you updosed.

I suggest you hold your dose for the moment.

Unfortunately all the symptoms you mention are normal in withdrawal.

If you do not begin to feel better in the next few days contact us again.

 

Sassenach

 

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rola

@ Sassenach

hi sass
thank you for your response and your involvement
it's been 11 days since I increased the dose
and it is true that there are ups and downs
like today
bad head and heart that beats fast
I can not rest myself who used to take naps
I will wait a few more days
Good evening 😊

ps /

I hope it is clear because the translator is not obvious

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brassmonkey

This sort of anxiety is a neuroemotion that is directly caused by the bodies reaction to the medication and adjusting to the changes in dose.  The only things we suggest taking are the fish oil and magnesium.  The anxiety comes in waves the can last several weeks and then subside.  I tried a lot of things and nothing really helped except for ignoring it and getting on with life as best as I could.  The anxiety isn't going to harm you, it will just be very uncomfortable until it resolves.  AAF is one of the best techniques for handling it.  Do a site search for AAF, there is a lot of talk about it.

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rola
2 minutes ago, brassmonkey said:

Ce type d'anxiété est une neuroémotion directement provoquée par la réaction du corps au médicament et par l'adaptation aux changements de dose. Les seules choses que nous suggérons de prendre sont l'huile de poisson et le magnésium. L'anxiété arrive par vagues et peut durer plusieurs semaines, puis s'atténuer. J'ai essayé beaucoup de choses et rien ne m'a vraiment aidé sauf de l'ignorer et de continuer à vivre de mon mieux. L’anxiété ne vous fera pas de mal, elle sera très inconfortable jusqu’à ce qu’elle se résolve. AAF est l'une des meilleures techniques pour le manipuler. Faites une recherche sur le site AAF, on en parle beaucoup.

@brassmonkey

 

thank you for your advice when I read your signature you also wean yourself off the deroxat is it you're not taking anything anymore? good night

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brassmonkey

As of last Wednesday I haven't taken anything for two and a half years.

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rola

@brassmonkey

 

Hi

I am very happy for you and you give me hope

I would have liked to read your story I think I take it wrong because I can not find

Thank you again for your support have a good day😊

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brassmonkey

Unfortunately the first 85 pages were lost when PaxilProgress.org shut down many years ago.  Those covered thr first several years of my taper.  Once I moved here to SA you can find my story starting here https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/3458-☼-brassmonkey-talking-about-myself/ 

 and continuing here https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/17647-tao-of-the-brassmonkey/

 I've heard tell that some people have made it through reading the entire thing best of luck.

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rola
6 minutes ago, brassmonkey said:

Malheureusement, les 85 premières pages ont été perdues lorsque PaxilProgress.org a été fermé il y a de nombreuses années. Celles-ci ont été couvertes pendant plusieurs années de ma vie. Une fois que j'ai déménagé ici en Afrique du Sud, vous pouvez trouver mon histoire en commençant ici  https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/3458--brassmonkey-talking-about-myself/ 

 et continue ici  https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/17647-tao-of-the-brassmonkey/

 J'ai entendu dire que certaines personnes ont réussi à lire en lisant tout le texte avec la meilleure des chances.

@brassmonkey

thanks ,😏

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mustafa

 hi @rola, i viewed your topic a lot of times trying to help you but i dont know a lot of techniques to cope with panic attacks. i was happy when i found erell recommend a website for you. do you find yourself well now?, waiting for your reply.

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rola
18 hours ago, mustafa said:

 salut  @rola , j'ai souvent consulté votre sujet pour essayer de vous aider, mais je ne connais pas beaucoup de techniques pour faire face aux attaques de panique. J'étais heureux quand j'ai trouvé Erell vous recommander un site Web. vous trouvez-vous bien maintenant?, en attente de votre réponse.

@mustafa

 

hello mustafa

i hope you're ok thank you for being here i'm trying to think of something else when i'm anxious yes people here are really great they help us despite their pain I wish you a nice day

@vegalia 

merci bcp pour ces sites je vais aller voir bon journée 

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rola

@brassmonkey

 

Hi

I hope you are fine i have read your course it is really extraordinary and gives us even more motivation to succeed

is it a personal choice to cut the tablets and not take a liquid solution apparently the liquid solution would give more undesirable effect and just one last question when you were not able to stay more than 6 weeks?

and you ended with what percentage 10 or 2.5 sorry but the translator is struggling or can be me

Have a nice day

😉

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brassmonkey

Hi Rola--

 

It was a personal choice to cut up the tablets instead of using a liquid.  I was working with another forum at the time and they had very limited information of making your own liquid and I am very comfortable with weighing and measuring so I went that way.

 

I stayed with the 6 week schedule for the entire taper, except for when I reached 10mgai.  I thought that this wold be a good time to do an extra hold and stayed at that level for 12 weeks.  My thinking was to let any background symptoms catch up and resolve before continuing to decrease.  At the very end of the taper I was doing a lot of foreign travel so things were a bit hectic for scheduling but each reduction was held for at least 6 weeks, but some were a little longer.

 

I ended up with a reduction of 10% each time.  But to get there I did 4 reductions of 2.5% on successive weeks.  So week 1 I would reduce 2.5%.  Week 2 I would reduce an additional 2.5% or 5% total. Week 3 I would reduce another 2.5% for 7.5% total and then finally for the last three weeks I would reduce by an additional 2.5% making a total of 10%. Lets see what the translator does to that.

 

😊

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