Venkat: tapering olanzapine / Zyprexa

[Venkat]

Hi manymoretodays 

 

So glad to see you checking on me , thank you so much.

 

My daily working day schedule. 

 

6 am . Got up with anxiety 

6.30 am .Alternate nostril breathing, ten rounds , feeling a bit calmer.

8 am. 100mg sodium valproate, 3 mg valium, slightly relaxed after 30 minutes 

9 am .Break fast and off to work. Working inefficiently with anxiety, fear and mental blocks 

2 PM. Lunch

3PM. Back to work with the same state of mind .

5PM. Back home 

6.30 pm. Restorative yoga followed by alternate nostril breathing. Feeling relaxed.

7.30 pm. Tab olanzapine 5mg, sodium valproate 700mg , warm milk with turmeric powder. 

8.00 pm.  Warm milk mixed with poppy seed powder ,a bit relaxed

9.00 pm go to bed

10.00 pm, sleapt ,not getting up in the night  sleeping till 6 am next morning. 

 

Please note: Planning to taper off valium slowly , stabilize on 700mg of sodium valproate and then start tapering olanzapine 5mg at the rate of 2.5% of the current dose every two weeks. 

 

Any suggestions are welcome whole heartedly 

 

Sincerely hope the journey won't be too turbulent. 

 

Regards, venkat 

 

 

 

 

 

[Shep]

5 hours ago, Venkat said:

Please note: Planning to taper off valium slowly , stabilize on 700mg of sodium valproate and then start tapering olanzapine 5mg at the rate of 2.5% of the current dose every two weeks. 

 

Coming off the valium may help with your daytime symptoms of what you describe as mental blocks. 

 

Let us know if you have any questions about tapering Valium. Are you able to get a prescription liquid form in your country? 

 

Your non-drug coping skills of alternate nostril breathing sound great. Thanks for including it in you journal. 

 

You may want to eat breakfast sooner. It may help with some of the early morning anxiety, which can be high levels of cortisol, but it also could be low blood sugar from not eating since the night before. Having a quick healthy snack with protein can be very helpful in getting rid of these anxious feelings. 

[Venkat]

Hi shep

 

Thank you so much for enquiring. 

 

My mental blocks has been with me since 5yrs , from the time I was on olanzapine , where as I had started the benzo ( initially clonazepam, switched to valium) only since 2 months. I have a feeling my mental blocks will be lifted after I taper olanzapine. 

But as you said it might happen after tapering valium as well , because 1st time when I tapered and stopped clonazepam a couple of years back I could feel the mental blocks lifting. I was overwhelmed. 

 

I don't get liquid form of valium in India. I am tapering with the solid ones by cutting them with a pill cutter.

 

I will try to have an early break fast too. Olanzapine has given me diabetes too along with high cholesterol. I forgot to mention my anti diabetic medications in the journal. 

 

Thanks again shep for your concern. I am aware I will need a lot of support from your side in future as well. I have a long way to go. 

 

Regards, venkat 

[Shep]

4 minutes ago, Venkat said:

I don't get liquid form of valium in India. I am tapering with the solid ones by cutting them with a pill cutter.

 

Many people taper Valium this way, so I'm sure you'll be fine.

 

4 minutes ago, Venkat said:

My mental blocks has been with me since 5yrs , from the time I was on olanzapine , where as I had started the benzo ( initially clonazepam, switched to valium) only since 2 months. I have a feeling my mental blocks will be lifted after I taper olanzapine. 

But as you said it might happen after tapering valium as well. 

 

This makes sense. Perhaps removing the Valium will help more with any sedation or fatigue-type feelings you have in the morning, even if it doesn't help with the mental blocks from the antipsychotic. 

 

Please let us know how you feel as you reduce. Because of Valium's long half-life, you may not feel the reduction until a week or so after the reduction, but hopefully it will bring some relief. 

[Venkat]

Hi shep 

 

Thanks once again, I am never tired of saying thanks any number of times for the immense work you people are doing. God bless you all.

 

I will keep my progress updated .

 

Regards, venkat 

[Shep]

How are you feeling, Venkat? How is your sleep? 

[Venkat]

Hi shep 

 

Thanks for enquiring. I am feeling the same as I was since 5 years.

I am sleeping ok about 7 to 8 hrs. Although last night it was a bit disturbed.

 

I thought I was the only one who had seen hell , but today when I was reading some of the posts in your thread, I realized you are a hero ,blessed by God. I pray He continues to bless you .

 

Thank you Shep. 

 

Regards, venkat 

[Shep]

17 minutes ago, Venkat said:

Thanks for enquiring. I am feeling the same as I was since 5 years.

I am sleeping ok about 7 to 8 hrs. Although last night it was a bit disturbed.

 

Did you decrease the Valium dose yesterday? Just checking to see if that might have caused a problem. 

[Venkat]

Hi shep 

 

I reduced it on 25th dec as noted in my signature. 

 

Hoping to sleep well tonight. Will update if sleep is not good. 

 

Thanks again shep. 

 

Regards, venkat 

[rupa]

On 10/10/2019 at 4:51 PM, Venkat said:

It all started after a 10 day meditation course 4 years back.At the end of the course i had euphoria and a bit of delusion.But in a few days i was settling down but i was forcefully taken by my brother who never was polite with me from childhood, to a psychiatric hospital where they started me on oral antipsychotics. As i was not tolerating them i wasn't taking them regularly which i disclosed to my doctor who gave me option of an injectible which i think was inj paliperidone. Stupidly ,i agreed to it.All hell broke loose that night,i was in the dumps,nobody attended to my situation.I never wanted to take that any more but after a day my doctor said i had to repeat that injection ,which when i refused ,they threatened to give it forcefully,so i accepted that injection.Life was a down hill from that time onwards.I was discharged from that hospital after a month with no proper instruction.i was living in hell for the next 6months. Was it the effect of the injection or its withdrawal i dont know.After 6 months of hell i was reffered to another psychiatrist who started me on sodium valproate 1500mg,olanzipine 5mg,clonazepam 5mg and escitolopram 10mg.In the mean time i had to hold on to my job which required constant alertness.I have gradually tapered sodium valproate to 300mg ,tapered and stopped clonazepam following the Ashton manual,tapered and stopped escitolopram on my own.I am now left with 5mgs of olanzepine.Around that time i came across the works of Dr Peter Breggin and i was convinced to stop olanzepine to over come the battery of side effects of olanzepine which was pure hell.About the same time i came across SurvivingAntidepressants web forum.I convinced my psychiatrist to taper olanzepine,who asked me to reduce by 50%.

 

However i will be tapering by 10% of the previous dose method from 1st nov 2019.You guys at SA are doing a marvellous job,hats off to all of you.My sincere prayers to all those trying to taper of psychiatric medications,wishing everyone a safe and successful journey.I too need a lot of support and wishes from all of you.My wife has been very supportive and understanding .She has agreed to stand by me during my olanzepine taper which may take a couple of years.

 

Will i be myself after the taper?Will my personality ever come back which is in ruins right now? will i be able to thinking clearly?Will the anhedonia go away?Will i be able to feel again?During the process of tapering olanzepine i need to hold on to my job which requires constant alertness,and take care of my family at the same time.Will i be able to?

 

 

 

 

Hi Venkat ,

I am the living proof of all your questions.

Yes,we can be more than,living ,quality of previous life.

More efficient in work orientation,more thoughtful towards in general life.

Over all life quality is good now.

I would like to suggest you to take,sleep inducing natural food ,like turmeric milk warm,soft curd rice with raw onion etc.Often,if not every day.

This helps to easy tappering.

[Venkat]

Hi rupa 

Thank you so much for your concern. 

I am extremely happy for you that you are enjoying your life. 

I had gone through your thread earlier. It has given me a lot of hope.

 

I will take the foods suggested by you.I am already taking warm milk with turmeric after reading your thread. Curd rice with raw onion is also one of my favorites. Will take it regularly from now onwards.

 

Once again thank you for your concern and suggestions. 

 

Regards, venkat 

[Venkat]

Hi @manymoretodaysStarted to taper 5mg of olanzapine today at the rate of 2.5% of the previous dose ( every two weeks) which amounts to 5 % of the previous dose every month. 

 

During my first attempt, I had crashed while attempting to do a 10% reduction per month and updosing too much when i had severe withdrawals ,could not handle it .

 

Is it better to do a 2.5 % every two weeks or to do a 5% once a month ? Which is better tolerated. 

 

Kindly advice ,thanks in advance 

 

Regards, venkat 

 

[manymoretodays]

Hi Venkat!

 

On 2/2/2021 at 7:56 AM, Venkat said:

Started to taper 5mg of olanzapine today at the rate of 2.5% of the previous dose ( every two weeks) which amounts to 5 % of the previous dose every month. 

 

During my first attempt, I had crashed while attempting to do a 10% reduction per month and updosing too much when i had severe withdrawals ,could not handle it .

 

Is it better to do a 2.5 % every two weeks or to do a 5% once a month ? Which is better tolerated. 

 

I think you are wise to do the 2.5 % every 2 weeks.  And then you get to see how you do with that before you do the next 2.5%.

It's going to be about what you tolerate the best, really.......and I think given your previous experience, this is a good plan.

 

Can you give an idea here too, Venkat, of when you are taking your medication(s), and doses?  I know you had done a decrease with the Valium, and then possibly a timing change too.

And I take it, that is going okay now.  And am so glad to see you beginning again with the olanzapine taper.

 

Just do the time on the left, and then on the right get the name and dosage of your medication(s)

And then.....and I remember that this is hard for you to do, so just the above ^ is okay too, for now.

But......if you can, keep going with times on the left and in addition to your medications on the right, note any symptoms that are occurring, as well as sleep, activity, and supplements.

Notes

 

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

 

And thank you.  ❤️

[Venkat]

Thank you so much for the reassurance @manymoretodays

 

9.00 am- Metformin 500mg,

                 glimepiride 2mg

7.00 pm- sodium valproate 800mg

              - olanzapine 4.88mg

 

Supplements 

8.00 am- L theanine 100mg for anxiety 

9.00 am‐ b complex with zinc,vit c

2.00 pm- fish oil

                 Calcium with vit d3

7.00 pm-warm milk with turmeric 

9.00 pm-warm milk with poppy seeds                           powder 

 

Alternate nostril breathing, morning, afternoon and evening 

 

Sleep- from 9 pm to 3.30 am last night

 

L theanine ,  ( from a reputed pharmaceutical company in India) which I started a couple of days back, is helping me beat the anxiety before going to work and at work. Don't know how long the effects will last. It also gave me few glimpses of normalcy which made me believe that a normal mind still existed within me and it has not been damaged irrev credibly by olanzapine. 

 

Last year when I was taking magnesium glycinate ( doctor's best brand )I felt so relaxed on day one and two I knew it was not for real ,some thing was wrong with the product, or is that the way magnesium glycinate works ,I am not sure. Now though I want to take magnesium glycinate, I don't know how to proceed. If there are suggestions it will be helpful. 

 

I am so desperate to overcome come anxiety I have also ordered ashwagandha which is supposed to take a couple of months to show results in reducing anxiety.

 

I will be adding one supplement at a time to know which is doing what.

 

Once again, thank you @manymoretodays

 

Regards, venkat 

 

 

[Emily02]

Hi Venkat 

I’m really glad you finished your valium taper and you are tapering again olanzapine.

About anxiety, maybe you could try Glycine powder since magnesium glycinate was working so well for you.  I’m using it at the moment and it’s really good. I feel a lot calmer. I take take two heaped teaspoons a day with water, tea or coffe.

I’m using l theanine as well and I’m currently waiting for my taurine power.

I wish you good luck with your taper.

[Venkat]

Hi Emily 

 

Hope your doing good. You are definitely sounding good in this post of yours. Extremely happy for you. 

 

I forgot to mention in my previous post that magnesium glycinate acted extremely well for the first 2 days after which the same dose of 100mg did not do much and I was not keen on increasing the dose. May be 200mg would have worked.

 

Which brand of glycine powder are you using ? I am worried about the authenticity of the products.

 

Wishing you too a safe tapering journey. 

 

Regards, venkat 

[Emily02]

Hi Venkat 

I’m using Now Foods Glycine and I also use some other products of theirs as well. They are said to be good.

Thanks very much, I’m doing ok at the moment. I just started supplementing with various herbs and supplements and I’m curious about the outcome. 

How have you been recently?

I quite often feel kinda dizzy and have difficulty concentrating, I hope it’ll go away one day.

 

Best wishes

[Venkat]

Hi Emily 

Glad that Now foods products are helping you. 

I read some reviews about it on Amazon, now foods that are available in India does not have good reviews. 

Maybe I will stick to magnesium glycinate by doctor's best for now.

Hope your dizziness goes away soon, and hope your concentration improves too.

I am just ok for now. 

Sleapt for about 8 hours last night but finding it difficult on the work front , not able to focus and concentrate well. 

 

Hope your sleep is good. Take care. 

 

Regards, venkat 

[manymoretodays]

On 2/3/2021 at 10:28 PM, Venkat said:

I am so desperate to overcome come anxiety I have also ordered ashwagandha which is supposed to take a couple of months to show results in reducing anxiety.

 

Oh Venkat.  So it's been a bit tough then.

And I wouldn't use desperation as a guideline to add more and more.

 

You know you JUST stopped the valium too.  Just days ago.  And so.........there is no great hurry to begin the olanzapine taper right now.  I might even, if I were you, NOT taper it further in 2 weeks from the 2nd of February.  I might wait an entire month.

 

Is the theanine a new addition?

And especially, with the b complex or any supplement with multiple ingredients you need to go careful or switch to just single ingredient supplements.  Many get stimulated or have not so great reactions to some, or all of the b vitamins, so tread careful and cautious with the supplements.

Important topics about tests, supplements, treatments, and diet

And I'll pull out some of the ones in the indexed list ^, that you are taking, so you can learn more too,

L-Theanine for anxiety, insomnia

Vitamin B3 (niacin, niacinamide)
 
Vitamin B8 (inositol)

Vitamin B12: essential for mood, nervous system

 

Ashwagandha herb for anxiety, stress and toxic overload
 

 

I'm glad you are finding some magnesium tips, and exchanging informations.

And I don't want you making many changes or additions too often.  As then, we won't really know what is going on anymore, or what might be responsible for what.

 

Just one change or addition at a time.  And then give at least a good couple of weeks to evaluate it, before doing anything else.

 

The rule of 3KI's: simple, slow, stable

 

And see.......you did notes, you didn't get as many symptoms in as you did last December, but you did them!!!  Thank you!

 

Oh Venkat, how's work going?

 

Best, L, P, H, and G,

mmt

 

 

Edited February 5, 2021 by manymoretodays

[Venkat]

Hi @manymoretodays

 

Thanks for your advice and wealth of information. 

 

This time, I will not rush with the tapering of olanzapine. Will not go by calendar but by my symptoms and feel.

 

Will definitely be careful with the supplements . 

 

I will be stopping b complex with multiple ingredients and add only b12 after a few days.

 

Yes , L theanine is a new addition. Taking it since 4 days. It seems to calm me down a bit.

 

Will be adding magnesium glycinate 100mg after a couple of weeks, hope it is ok.

 

As far as my work is concerned, it has been the same since 5 years , inefficient. Hope it improves as I reduce olanzapine. 

 

Thanks again manymoretodays for everything you are doing. 

 

Regards, venkat 

 

[Venkat]

L theanine 100mg worked well for me only for a couple of days. Did not do much after that. 

 

Increased to 200mg ,it caused a very strange feeling which is difficult to explain. I will be stopping it from tomorrow. 

 

Maybe supplements have to go through trial and error. 

 

Regards, venkat 

[Shep]

6 hours ago, Venkat said:

Maybe supplements have to go through trial and error. 

 

 

Yes, that's what most of us find to be true. You may want to try smaller doses to start out with. Sometimes we're very hyper-reactive to drugs and supplements (and even foods) due to withdrawal, so smaller amounts may be helpful and larger amounts can be harmful. 

[Venkat]

Thank you @Shep

 

Will do accordingly. 

 

Regards, venkat 

[manymoretodays]

On 2/5/2021 at 8:45 PM, Venkat said:

Will be adding magnesium glycinate 100mg after a couple of weeks, hope it is ok.

 

As far as my work is concerned, it has been the same since 5 years , inefficient. Hope it improves as I reduce olanzapine. 

 

Oh yes, many will do split doses of the magnesium too.  Meaning that you space it out and take it a couple of times a day.  It might help a lot with any anxiety/fear stuff.

 

And good for you though Venkat, you are doing it, and have the structure of a job that pays which might be helpful.

And it might take some time, but yes your cognitive will come back.  I mean I turned in to a bedridden, couch potato "blobbette" during some of my medication trials.  Where I found it very hard to function at all.  Luckily I suppose, that came in waves and windows too.  So I think you are doing great.

 

Okay, and best,

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

[Venkat]

Thanks a lot @manymoretodays

 

Started doing 30 minutes breathing meditation techniques in the morning. It is helping me in reducing anxiety. 

 

Waiting for my magnesium glycinate which my niece is sending from Boston as I was not sure of the quality of those available in India. Hope that too will help in reducing anxiety. 

 

Thank you manymoretodays 

 

Regards, venkat 

[ChessieCat]

2 hours ago, Venkat said:

Waiting for my magnesium glycinate

 

Remember to start with a small amount to see how you react to it.

 

And only make one change at a time.

[Venkat]

Thank you for the advice chessiecat , will do accordingly. 

 

I have started a very low dose of ashwagandha which is supposed to take a couple of months to show results.

 

Will be starting magnesium glycinate in a couple of weeks. 

 

Thank you chessiecat 

 

Regards, 

[Venkat]

Ashwagandha seems to be having a negative effect on me . I have only been taking it since 5days . Had severe brain fog today.

May stop it from tomorrow. 

 

Regards, venkat 

[hayduke]

I don't remember who, but someone else here had trouble with ashwagandha.  I'm not familiar with it.

 

L-theanine I think works for me as I was raised a drinker.  I found myself craving green tea when I worked in an office pre-covid, but the caffeine added up.

 

When I looked into supplements to ease my drinking, the GABA pathway is probably the main one involved there.  L-theanine looked like the least intrusive way to boost GABA, and I've found it good to quell anxiety now and again.  Interestingly I'd just randomly found myself hoovering up green tea the year before.

 

I don't take it regularly.  Rather, if I was considering a benzo or codeine - which is only a few times a year now since doing my therapy - I'd take L-theanine in preference since it's much milder and less upset to the body chemistry.

 

Sometimes I did notice some derealisation when taking it too, especially 200mg as you say.  I would usually only take 100mg when I feel it would help.  Maybe it just works better for me as my GABA channels have had a fair bit of alcohol through my adult life - I recall you saying you don't drink.

 

Great to see you are finding natural ways to handle your anxieties with meditation, yoga and breathing.  The less drugs you're taking, the more you have to process that stuff, but the payoff is you get better at it and end up in a better place.

 

Cheers

[Venkat]

Hi hayduke 

 

Thanks for your concern and time. 

 

My anxiety at present is under control. 

Maybe I was in a wave , or it could have been due to covid vaccine .

I may not be taking the 2nd shot of the vaccine. 

 

I had to stop fish oil too as it was not calming me down and was causing gastritis. 

 

Restorative yoga is helping me , thanks for your suggestion.

 

My main worry is that I am finding it difficult on the work front and at socializing due to the battery of side effects of olanzapine. 

 

I am really glad to hear you say you are able to feel the pre drug state of life.

 

Take care 

 

Regards, venkat 

[Emily02]

Hi Venkat!

 

I’m really glad to hear that your anxiety lessend.

I don’t have anxiety since I started my stack of herbs and supplements which is really good but now as I’m reducing my sleep is getting poor again and I’m quite worried about it. 

I find socialising hard as well since being on Olanzapine. I find expressing myself hard, words don’t seem to come easily and so on.

So you’re not alone. But I hope this will improve as well as we reduce.

 

Best wishes,

Emily

[Venkat]

Thank you for the encouraging post @Emila96.

 

If your sleep is getting reduced why not continue with the supplements since they are helping you. Ofcourse you know it better. 

 

One of our mods who are more experienced with supplements should be able to guide you during this process. 

 

Hope the withdrawal symptoms of olanzapine reduce for you and you feel better.

 

Once again thanks for the post.

 

Wishing you all the best. 

 

Regards, venkat 

[Emily02]

I’m really glad you found it encouraging Venkat.

It’s really important to support each other not to give up.

Yes, the supplements help a lot with the anxiety but they don’t seem to help with the sleep. Anyway I hope it’ll settle soon.

 

Thanks very much, I wish the same for you!

 

Best wishes,

Emily

[Venkat]

Yes Emily, we need to support each other till we get through this process of tapering. 

 

Restorative yoga in the evenings help me to sleep better. Hayduke had suggested it. As Rupa had suggested eating curd rice with raw onion too helping me in sleep in addition to poppy seeds powder in warm milk before going to sleep, which I found on the net and practicing it.

 

With my very little experience I would say till your sleep gets better please do not make a reduction of olanzapine, hold it for some time. 

 

As manymoretodays had suggested I am holding for a month before I make the second reduction. After that I will be reducing at 2.5 % of the previous dose every two weeks. 

 

I will pray for your sleep to improve. 

 

Take care

 

Regards, venkat 

[Emily02]

Thanks very much for your prayers Venkat ! I really appreciate it and I absolutely need it.

I’ll definitely try restorative yoga.

Last night I managed to sleep quite well thank God but I’ll hold until I stabilise.

Best wishes 

Emily

[Venkat]

I was taking magnesium glycinate 100mg since 3 days . On day 1 and2 i was at home and felt relaxed. On day 3, i noticed it was interfering with alertness to a large extent particularly while driving. I almost met with an accident due to reduced alertness. Now I am extremely scared to continue with magnesium. 

 

The effects of magnesium was similar to the effects of theanine which I had to stop. 

Now stopping magnesium as well. 

 

I thought magnesium ,like theanine was my savior. Feel defeated with supplements. 

Meditation is my only aid now. 

 

Regards, venkat