Venkat: tapering olanzapine / Zyprexa

[Venkat]

Hi hayduke

Thank you for the valuable suggestions. 

It really eased me .

 

Warm wishes

Venkat 

[Venkat]

At last I was able to get the hang of Brassmonkey slide scale micro taper with my wife 's help.

Calculating the dose (in ml) was taxing.I could not find a spreadsheet for calculating in ml.My wife had to do it manually with the help of a calculator. 

If someone good at computers can post a spreadsheet calculated in ml at the tapering forum it would really go a long way in helping many who are not good at maths and computers ,like me.

 

Regards venkat 

[hayduke]

Hey Venkat.  You don't want my spreadsheet, it's a dog's breakfast 🙂  But it works well enough for me.

 

However some other people here have made some to share.  You can try these:

 

 

 

[Venkat]

Hi hayduke 

In fact I wanted to ask you to send me your spreadsheet but I thought I would be troubling you so hesitated.

You are my inspiration to be starting Brassmonkey slide scale micro taper with liquid taper(With 10ml)Started from last night. Sleapt for 7 hrs last night. 

I have already calculated for 2yrs from now and will calculate further when I get there.

Thank you for offering your spreadsheet. 

I have a feeling that you have recovered from the side effects of olanzapine and am extremely happy for you. You deserve it.

 

Warmest wishes venkat 

 

[Venkat]

Sleapt for about 7 hrs last night and the previous night. No diazepam or cough syrup. Just following Brassmonkey slide scale micro taper with water titration. 

 

 

[Venkat]

Having flu like symptoms today. Don't know if it is withdrawal symptom or viral infection. Will wait it out.

 

Still feeling like a zombie, even while at work. Hoping eagerly to see some windows. 

 

Regards , venkat 

[hayduke]

Best thing to do when you're feeling too uncomfortable after a cut is to hold until you're not.

 

Cheers

[Venkat]

Hi hayduke 

Thank you so much for your concern. Will do as you said.

Hope you are doing well. 

Warm wishes, venkat 

[Venkat]

Flu like symptoms are subsiding but have no idea if it was a withdrawal symptom or a viral infection. 

 

Finding it difficult to continue to work with the side effects of olanzapine. Sleep is fairly good. 

 

Want to take off from work for 6 months or so till some recovery is seen but my wife who also works in the same institution may lose her job if she too takes leave for so long.I alone can't take leave , I need her to be with me.So for now shelving the idea of taking off from work. Every day is a struggle...

 

Regards, venkat 

[hayduke]

Working is a bear during this process, for sure.  Our societies aren't really compassionate enough to give us the time off at this point in history though, or if they do it often comes at a very high cost, like your independence.

 

Can you look at reducing the number of days you work?

 

When I was doing the 10%/mo cuts I found the first week or two could be quite demanding at work, especially with derealisation, wanting to cry, etc.  Hopefully in a few days you'll be adjusting more to the cut.

 

This is part of why I tried the 2.5%/wk for 4 weeks then holding for 2 - it's just more comfortable.  Plus if you are having a hard week after any particular cut you can just hold for an extra week.

 

Learning better self care habits to support yourself through these symptoms will pay back in spades.  There are many effective suggestions on the forum, some of my favourites are magnesium baths, omega 3, yoga, and walking in nature.  There are plenty more to try too.

 

Cheers

[Venkat]

Thanks a lot hayduke, really needed that.If I don't go to work for a couple of days it becomes even more difficult to adjust to the work later and that is the reason I don't want to reduce the number of working days. 

 

Warm wishes , venkat 

[Venkat]

Alto mam 

In spite of following Brassmonkey slide scale of tapering olanzapine I am having severe insomnia. Unable to work. Desperate for sleep. 

Can I try melatonin?  I have 1mg capsules of life extension brand of melatonin. Can I empty half a capsule so that it amounts to 500mcg and take it ? Is it safe? Alternatively can I try pregabalin 75mg sustain release which I have ?

Please suggest. 

 

Regards, venkat 

[hayduke]

Hey Venkat,

 

Just wanting to say I've had zero problems taking melatonin.  It helps with getting to sleep.  If something is disturbing your sleep though, it won't keep you asleep.  (I suppose that's the trade off for not having a 'hangover' from it).

 

Have you been holding at 4.5 since November?

[Venkat]

Hayduke 

Thanks for the reply . I am currently on 4.27 mg of olanzapine.I am yet to update that in my signature.  How much melatonin were you taking and for how long?

 

Regards, venkat

[hayduke]

Any time you have significant trouble sleeping for more than a night or two you will want to continue holding until you are sleeping ok again.  Making more cuts will make that harder.

 

The melatonin they sell over the counter here is labelled 'homeopathic'.  I don't know what that means in this context but they are useful.  It says 'each tablet contains Melatonin 6X'.  I'll take 4 or 5 when i'm going to bed like it says on the bottle.  They usually have me out pretty swiftly.

 

So I can't advise on dosage beyond that.

 

I don't take it too often but they do help now and again.

[Venkat]

Thank you hayduke 

 

Regards, venkat 

[Venkat]

Due for a cut tomorrow but will hold it for some time till my sleep improves.

[Venkat]

Hi hayduke

 

My sleep is not improving, finding it very difficult even to survive. Melatonin is not working for me. Unable to work even after holding  . Can I updose olanzapine ? Kindly suggest. 

 

Regards, venkat 

[Venkat]

I am currently on 4.27mg of olanzapine. Can I  updose to 4.5mg ? I have realized the importance of long holds and not in a hurry for cuts anymore. 

[hayduke]

Hey Venkat.  Sorry to hear you’ve been struggling a bit.  If I was in your situation I’d probably updose a bit.  You could try and see if 4.35 or 4.4 would be enough over a week or so before jacking up to 4.5.

 

Did melatonin help?  Also have a search of the forum here and see what’s worked for others finding it hard to sleep.

 

I updosed from 1.19 to 1.25mg recently and it’s been adequate.  I’m holding here for a while longer yet.

 

Let us know how you get on

 

Cheers

[Venkat]

Thank you hayduke 

 

Melatonin 1mg has worked for me just for one night. It has stopped working for me now. 

 

Hope you are doing well. 

 

Regards, venkat 

[Venkat]

Hi hayduke 

 

Thanks a ton for your timely suggestion ,sleapt well last night . Updosed to 4.4 mg as you had suggested. Will hold for a while. In fact I had even thought about quitting tapering for sometime. 

 

Regards, venkat 

[Venkat]

Hi hayduke 

 

Sorry to be troubling you. I am unable to sleep even on 4.4 mg. I want to updose further, please suggest.

I have been following a few protocols like going to sleep at the same time. No computers or phones few hours before sleep.Keeping the bedroom dark etc..

 

 

 

Still not a wink of sleep. Kindly suggest regarding further updosing.

 

I have to work from Monday. Unable to go on like this. Thank you. 

 

Regards, venkat 

 

 

[hayduke]

Hi Venkat,

 

Were you able to sleep well on 4.5?

 

You can try 4.5 again, or even back up to your previous 5mg if you needed to.  Then maybe look at a slower, gentler taper once you're stable again.

 

I can't really advise beyond that, unfortunately.  Sleep is vital to the whole process and it's something you'll need to manage as you go.

 

Others on here may be able to assist further.

 

All the best

[hayduke]

Another thought:  if anxiety is keeping you from sleeping then daily exercise (say walking in nature), and some yoga and meditation might help.

[Venkat]

Hi hayduke 

 

I was able to sleep on 4.5 ,may be I will updose to 4.5 first and then see how it goes.

 

Anxiety is not interfering. But will still try yoga and meditation. 

 

Thanks a lot for your time and suggestions. 

 

Regards, venkat 

[hayduke]

Hey Venkat.  How's the updose going?

[Venkat]

Updosed to 4.63 from 4.4 ,no sleep. Then updosed to 5mg so that I could sleep and then start tapering after becoming steady but again no sleep. What should I do?

[Venkat]

Hi hayduke 

 

Hope your updose is working for you well.

 

You had adviced me in my best interest about updose but it did not work for me immediately.

 

Last night I sleapt for about 7 hrs with 5mg.

Hoping to stabilize on it before starting to taper.  

 

 I had read herewego too had updosed a few times before, so may be it should work for me as well.

 

Wishing you all the best in your journey. 

 

A word of reassurance for me from herewego would be very helpful but I know it is difficult to get them to help. 

 

Regards, venkat 

[herewego]

Hi Venkat,

I am so sorry to hear you've been having difficulty sleeping. Before I found this site I was doing 50% cuts and feeling the negative effects of that. When I had found this site I had just gone down from 2.5 to 1.25 for 2 - 3 weeks. It was recommended I go back up to 2 as I was having withdrawal symptoms, but it was knocking me out too much at 2 so I went back down to 1.8, and before long to 1.6 and stayed there for a month before tapering.  I haven't documented my journey here since then but have had ups and downs, set backs due to extra stress, etc...  I've been holding since my last cut mid October as while I mainly don't go faster than 10% per month I definitely do not always go that fast and take longer going by my symptoms. After a cut I usually have shorter nights of sleep starting 4 - 7 days later. I consider, for me adequate sleep 6-7 hrs, 5 or less (total as can be broken up sleep) to be poor and 8-9 good sleep. I find for me if I have more than 2 bad nights I will take some melatonin (cut 2mg pill into quarters as too much can have opposite effect) but not more than 2 or 3 nights per week as can become ineffective if used more than that. Also sometimes it doesn't work but sometimes it does so don't give up on it after a couple fails. Also it only helps you fall asleep not stay asleep. I also try to wind down at night limiting screen time before sleep and having a dark quiet cool room &'regular routine. I read in bed until sleepy ( but don't choose a book that is too gripping). Usually after a cut (after a week or less) I will have bad and adequate sleep intermixed for a week or so followed by mostly adequate sleep with some bad sleeps transitioning to mainly adequate sleep. I find the key to knowing when to make a cut is to wait until you've had at least a week of good sleep ( whatever that is for you) before making another cut. If you make cuts only once you hit adequate sleep, then your system didn't have time to slow enough and you'll find you are stuck between adequate and poor sleep only, starting to get more and more poor sleep as your anxiety increases with your exhaustion and the accumulative effect of making cuts too soon. Another sign not to make a cut yet is if you are too 'keyed up' and restless. Once that lifts for a week plus good sleep for a week, you are probably ready but never faster than 10% per month. If you are feeling nervous after tapering too fast for your body the past couple months perhaps try tapering 5% per month and holding longer if necessary going by how you are feeling. If you find success with that then after a bit try going back up to roughly 7.5% or 10% cuts per month (or however long you feel the need to hold more than a month according to how you are feeling symptom wise). Try not to have the goal to get off your medicine as fast as possible but to reduce as comfortably as possibly once you stabilize. 

Also, to Altostrata, sorry I haven't answered your question. I wanted to answer it privately but I'm not good with technology and haven't figured out what to press to respond privately to your question a bit ago. Perhaps someone could enlighten me what to look for on my screen?

[hayduke]

Hope your sleep continues to improve @Venkat

 

Hey @herewego if you click on the envelope icon to the top right of the page and press [ Compose New ] you should be able to send a private message once you start typing the recipient's handle into the 'to' box there.

 

Cheers

[Venkat]

Hi herewego 

 

Thank you for the elaborate explanation. 

 

I am really sorry you went through so much. 

 

Wish you the very best and safe journey. 

 

I am currently back(after updosing) to 5mg of olanzapine I wish it had knocked me off to some extent but I am unable to sleep on it.Was my updose too much ?

 

What should I do now ? Will I stabilize on 5mg ?

 

I am desperate for some sleep and melatonin isn't working for me it keeps me awake so also magnesium. 

 

Again, should I wait at 5mg to stabilize ?

 

Regards, venkat 

 

[Venkat]

Hi hayduke 

 

Last night not a wink of sleep. herewego has been kind enough to explain elaborately just like you .

 

Will I stabilize on 5mg ?Desperate for some sleep. 

 

Regards, venkat 

[Venkat]

Hi herewego 

 

My computer knowledge too is poor ,hayduke will be able to guide you regarding contacting altostrata personally. 

 

Regards, venkat 

[hayduke]

@Venkat sorry to hear you're still not sleeping well.  Now you're back at 5mg I'd hold for a month or two and wait for things to settle.  Once you're sleeping normally again you can consider a slower gentler taper.
 

I don't have easy answers to improve your sleep unfortunately.  Suggest reviewing herewego's post up there again.  I'd just be exercising, doing relaxing things and doing my best to stay comfortable until sleep patterns recover. 

 

A few times a year I might take 15mg oxazepam if I am really having trouble sleeping.  That's prescription.  As a benzo I believe it isn't generally recommended on SA because it's habit-forming if you use it for more than a couple of days in a row, and then you might well have a whole other WD saga to deal with.  Since it sounds like you're having trouble sleeping properly for more than a couple of nights I'd try other avenues.

 

Are you possibly giving up alcohol, bhang or anything else as well at the moment?  Those two are well known for moderate insomnia on quitting.

 

Do you have a friendly GP?  I would have a talk to a doctor I trusted at this point because sleep is pretty vital.

[Venkat]

Hi hayduke 

 

Thanks a lot for your suggestions.

Once I stabilize on 5mg I will try to hold for a month. 

I don't take alcohol, left it long back.No bhang  either.

 

But right now waiting to stabilize on 5mg.

 

Regards, venkat