Venkat: tapering olanzapine / Zyprexa

[Altostrata]

Clonazepam and diazepam are closely related. Benzodiazepines are powerful drugs and may be causing your symptoms, rather than the olanzapine tapering.. Please include your diazepam use in your signature.

 

You have been taking clonazepam with olanzapine since 2016?

 

You went off clonazepam in September 2019, correct? When did you start taking it again? When did you start taking occasional diazepam as well?

 

On 4/9/2020 at 9:33 PM, Venkat said:

My insomnia started 4 months back when I started to taper olanzapine at 10% pm .

 

You went off clonazepam in September 2019 and your sleep broke up in late November or December?

 

How was your sleep between September 2019 and late November 2019? Is that when you started taking diazepam?

 

We need to know exactly how often you are taking clonazepam or diazepam.

[Venkat]

Alto mam ,yes mam, I have been taking clonazepam and olanzapine since 2016.

 

Went off clonazepam in September 2019.

Started taking clonazepam again in January 2020. Occasionally diazepam at around the same time. 

 

My sleep between Sept 2019 and late Nov 2019 was fairly good. 

 

I have decided to stop taking occasional benzo from today onwards as my anxiety attacks have stopped. Anxiety attacks had started in January and that is when I was put on clonazepam and occasional diazepam. 

 

Thank you mam 

 

Regards, venkat 

[Altostrata]

If you have been taking a benzo every day, you may get withdrawal symptoms from suddenly stopping the benzo.

[Venkat]

Alto mam,  I will taper it down.

Thank you mam. 

 

Regards, venkat 

[Venkat]

I have started to taper olanzapine again , but this time at the  rate of 2.5% of the previous dose every 2 weeks, that amounts to 5% of the previous dose every month. 

 

I seem to be tolerating it so far.Getting good sleep. But still going through the suffering of olanzapine effects. 

[Venkat]

Tried purchasing a ticket for medicating normal, but failed as it was in dollars but my country currency is rupees.

[hayduke]

Hey Venkat, how's your sleep?

[Venkat]

Hi hayduke 

 

Good to hear from you. 

 

Hope you are doing well. You must be nearing the taper process. Very happy for you. 

 

My sleep is good. About 8 hrs per day. 

 

Stopped tobacco 6 months back.

 

One question hayduke, in one of your posts you had mentioned about enjoying the sounds of birds and animals when you were tapering. When that happened what was the olanzapine dose you were on.

 

Can I too expect to get back my feelings someday. 

 

Regards, venkat 

 

 

[hayduke]

That's a good amount of sleep.

 

Well I've always preferred natural environments rather than busy cities, nightlife aside.  I think once I was steady on 2.5mg for a bit I felt a lot more attuned to other people and the surroundings than I had on higher amounts and could again emotionally connect with my friends in a way that had been blunted before and was in the way.  The gate keeps widening as you go so enjoy each new thing that comes in.  Makes it easier to look forward to new things.

 

Of course the harder emotions will come back too, these can be considerable but you'll probably find with your experience now, and wisdom and support, you can deal with them better.

[Venkat]

Hi hayduke 

 

Thanks for the information. It was light at the end of the tunnel. Nice to have hope along the way.

 

I am still not able to connect emotionally to people or nature ,I don't live in a busy place either.

 

It may take about a year or more for me to get down to 2.5mg and am eager to get there but I have learnt the hard way not to rush.

 

The side effects of olanzapine are making my professional life extremely difficult, just too many side effects. 

 

Take care 

 

Regards, venkat 

[Venkat]

A pinch of fried and grounded poppy seeds in a glass of warm milk 30 minutes before going to sleep, gives me a good night sleep.

 

Also adding a pinch of nutmeg powder to it is supposed to help in sleeping well although I have not tried the latter ,but will try it sometime soon.

[manymoretodays]

Venkat,

Heyo.  Can you give an update here?

How are you faring?  Any recent tapers, or medication changes?  That sort of thing.

I saw you over on hayduke's thread, and haven't seen much on your thread recently.

 

Oh, I hope you are faring well enough.

 

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

[Venkat]

Hi manymoretodays 

Thank you so much for enquiring. 

I had made a mistake of starting clonazepam again couple of months back because I could not function with out it.

Couple of weeks back it had stopped working. So I decided to start tapering it .Currently I am tapering clonazepam and am having less sleep of late. Earlier I had succeeded in tapering clonazepam following Ashton manual, so I am following the same. 

 

Once I am done with it will give some gap and then will start tapering olanzapine. 

Is this ok ?

 

Over all, I am struggling to function at my work ,side effects of olanzapine I believe. 

 

Regards, venkat 

 

[Shep]

9 hours ago, Venkat said:

I had made a mistake of starting clonazepam again couple of months back because I could not function with out it.

Couple of weeks back it had stopped working. So I decided to start tapering it .Currently I am tapering clonazepam and am having less sleep of late. Earlier I had succeeded in tapering clonazepam following Ashton manual, so I am following the same. 

 

Venkat, I'm sorry you're experiencing sleep problems. Many people find the Ashton Manual to be too fast in her tapering recommendations. Also, the Ashton Manual doesn't take into account polypharmacy. 

 

If you'd like us to guide you in you taper, this is the information we need: 

 

1. how you've been tapering your drugs over the past three months -  post the name of each drug, the dose, and any reductions you've made over the past three months.
2. post the time(s) of day you're taking each of your drugs. 

 

It's possible you may benefit from a clonazepam updose. Please note for benzos, updoses work best within 2 - 4 weeks of the last change. 

 

It's also possible you may be experiencing paradoxical reactions if you're taking your drugs too close together. The more you depress the central nervous system with sedating drugs, the more it fights to stay alert. This creates a paradoxical reaction.

 

If you're interested in feedback, please post the two items listed above. 

 

[Venkat]

Hi shep

thanks a lot for enquiring. I am unable to remember exactly how I tapered for the last 3 months. I will try to recollect. 

1. I have been tapering olanzapine from 6.5 mg to 5mg at the rate of 2.5% of the previous dose every 2 weeks over a period of 6 months and held at 5mg since a month.

I have not tapered sodium valproate 900mg in the last 3 months. 

I started to taper clonazepam 0.25mg,after switching to valium equivalent (5mg )since 1 week. I was on clonazepam 0.25 only for 1 month.

 

2 . Olanzapine 5mg at 7pm every day.

     Sodium valproate 700mg at 7pm and  200mg at 8 am every day.

     Valium 5mg at 8 am every day.

 

Even when I was on clonazepam I had sleep disturbances and tremors of the hands , that is when I decided to switch to valium in order to taper .

 

I hope I have provided the required information. 

Once again thank you for your concern. 

 

Regards, venkat 

 

[Shep]

22 hours ago, Venkat said:

2 . Olanzapine 5mg at 7pm every day.

     Sodium valproate 700mg at 7pm and  200mg at 8 am every day.

     Valium 5mg at 8 am every day.

 

Even when I was on clonazepam I had sleep disturbances and tremors of the hands , that is when I decided to switch to valium in order to taper .

 

Thanks for the information, Venkat. 

 

You mentioned being on clonazepam and having sleep disturbances and switching to valium, but I notice you're taking the Valium in the morning. 

 

What hours are you sleeping? Does the Valium cause sedation? Are you completely off clonazepam now? 

[Venkat]

Hi shep 

Strangely I sleapt for 8 hrs last night with out any additional medications. Maybe the poppy seeds in milk along with restorative yoga helped. Hope I sleep well tonight too.

 

I am completely off clonazepam. Taking valium in the morning, yes it does cause sedation. I was taking clonazepam earlier in the mornings. 

 

Technically I have not started tapering valium yet , just switched from clonazepam to valium. 

 

Regards, venkat 

 

 

[Shep]

I'm glad you slept well! Yes, continue what you've been doing. I'm especially fond of restorative yoga.

 

You may want to go into a long hold and see if you can stabilize more before resuming your taper. It's possible these recent changes, especially the benzo crossover, need time to settle. 

[Venkat]

Thanks shep 

 

I will hold as long as needed to become more stable. But it is the side effects of olanzapine which is interfering with my life since 5 yrs ,at work place and in society. Sincerely hoping to start tapering olanzepine as soon as possible, but will not rush, I have learnt that the hard way.

I have no words to thank you and all the moderators and Alto mam for the immense work and support to all of us who are struggling due to the side effects of medications or the withdrawal symptoms. 

 

Regards, venkat 

[manymoretodays]

Hey Venkat,

And oh good, Shep has checked in on you too.

 

Have you gotten any liver function tests done lately?   Any signs of liver problems?

Drug Interaction Report- Drugs.com

take a look at the olanzapine and valproic acid interaction in the above link too.  It outlines signs of liver problems.

 

Your drug interaction report is also posted here in your introduction.

 

 

What's in the poppy seeds?  Are you still using the sleep supplements below?

On 11/11/2020 at 2:28 AM, Venkat said:

A pinch of fried and grounded poppy seeds in a glass of warm milk 30 minutes before going to sleep, gives me a good night sleep.

 

Also adding a pinch of nutmeg powder to it is supposed to help in sleeping well although I have not tried the latter ,but will try it sometime soon.

 

And best, you are so kind Venkat, and it's a pleasure working with you.

 

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

[Shep]

23 hours ago, Venkat said:

But it is the side effects of olanzapine which is interfering with my life since 5 yrs ,at work place and in society. Sincerely hoping to start tapering olanzepine as soon as possible, but will not rush, I have learnt that the hard way.

 

Venkat, I'm worried about you staying on the olanzapine, too. What specific side effects are you having?

 

Please do check out @manymoretodays last post about getting liver functions test. This is important with these drugs. 

 

[Venkat]

Hi manymoretodays 

 

When I was suffering from covid couple of months back, I had got the liver functions done. Fortunately it was normal. 

I am still using the poppy seeds for sleep. Thank you so much for enquiring. 

 

Hi shep

 

I have a battery of side effects of olanzapine. Memory issues, processing information, cognitive impairment, unable to maintain a conversation, socializing, paucity of thoughts ie no free flow of thoughts, anhedonia , generalized phobias, generalized anxiety etc ...

 

Hoping some day I will feel my original self. Many a times I feel if it is people like me who contemplate ending one's life.

 

Regards, venkat 

[manymoretodays]

Hi Venkat,

 

Oh boy.  You are recovering from Covid19 too!

 

5 hours ago, Venkat said:

I have a battery of side effects of olanzapine. Memory issues, processing information, cognitive impairment, unable to maintain a conversation, socializing, paucity of thoughts ie no free flow of thoughts, anhedonia , generalized phobias, generalized anxiety etc ...

 

Hoping some day I will feel my original self. Many a times I feel if it is people like me who contemplate ending one's life.

 

A lot of this ^ could be do to your combination of drugs too.  The Valium, and even the Valproic Acid contribute.

 

And yes, one day you too, will feel back to more of your original self.  And more!  It happened for me, and even after a ton of improvement after many meds, and mishaps with tapering and WD.  I really feel "back" these days......of course it's not like I am 30 years old again.  That would be bizarre!  Lol.

 

And so......though for you, for now, what does a day look like, in regard to your symptoms and medications presently taken.  You remember Notes/daily drug and symptom logs to track patterns and progress ?

 

You've got regular dosing patterns going now, and have noted the times.  And so just go a bit further, and do the times noted on the left, and then on the right note drugs and supplements, by name, with dosages.  Keep going with times on the left through the day, and note on the right, in general, your symptoms, sleep, activity, etc. 

 

Click on the link above, and then in the first post, you'll see a sample note to go by.  You have to click the arrow to pull down the quote with the sample note.  Or I can transfer one here if you can't get to it.

 

Just try a day, for now.

 

And know that it does.....get.....better Venkat.  Contemplate what your life will feel like, when you feel better, and less drugged up all the time.  All the things you will see, the people you will meet, the adventures you will have.  Or even just a more peaceful feeling 24/7.  It will be.

 

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

[Emily02]

On 12/15/2020 at 11:21 AM, Venkat said:

Hi shep 

Strangely I sleapt for 8 hrs last night with out any additional medications. Maybe the poppy seeds in milk along with restorative yoga helped. Hope I sleep well tonight too.

 

I am completely off clonazepam. Taking valium in the morning, yes it does cause sedation. I was taking clonazepam earlier in the mornings. 

 

Technically I have not started tapering valium yet , just switched from clonazepam to valium. 

 

Regards, venkat 

 

 

Hi Venkat!

I’m really glad you had a good night sleep.

I hope you will get more and more of it.

Regards

Emily02

[Venkat]

Thank you manymoretodays 

 

It was very encouraging to read your post. It is very reassuring as well. 

I am maintaining a dairy to note the drugs I am taking with the dosages and the symptoms along with progress each day. I used to post the same earlier, but honestly I am tired of doing it. 

I will continue doing the same. 

Thanks once again for your encouraging words. 

 

Regards, venkat 

[Venkat]

Hi Emily 

 

Thanks a lot. Sincerely wish you also the same. My best wishes with you.

 

Regards, venkat 

[manymoretodays]

Hi Venkat,

Okay, that sounds good.  To give a try again at it.  I think it sometimes helps, when doing the diary/notes/drug and symptom logs to also note in, any non-drug stuff that helped, or any positives in a day.  Maybe that will help in not feeling like you have to focus on symptoms and drugs every couple of hours?

 

Best, L, P, H, and G,

mmt

[Venkat]

Hi manymoretodays 

 

I will try to do the same. 

I was going through your thread yday, you have endured so much for so long. I could relate to your situation  .It gave me some hope. 

 

God bless you. 

 

Regards, venkat 

[Venkat]

Sleeping well for the last few nights.

[Emily02]

7 hours ago, Venkat said:

Sleeping well for the last few nights.

That’s really good news Venkat, thanks for sharing it. I think it means that your system is getting stable.

I hope you will get better and better.

[Venkat]

Thank you Emily 

 

Hope you are getting good sleep too. Hope your other symptoms too are manageable.

Hope you have found a good psychiatrist who helps you in slow taper. How  I wish I could help you with calculations and liquid preparations of olanzapine , but I am really poor at maths and computers. My wife did the calculations for me .Hope some time soon you get the hang of it .All the best. 

 

Regards, venkat 

[Emily02]

On 12/21/2020 at 6:08 AM, Venkat said:

Thank you Emily 

 

Hope you are getting good sleep too. Hope your other symptoms too are manageable.

Hope you have found a good psychiatrist who helps you in slow taper. How  I wish I could help you with calculations and liquid preparations of olanzapine , but I am really poor at maths and computers. My wife did the calculations for me .Hope some time soon you get the hang of it .All the best. 

 

Regards, venkat 

Hi Venkat!

My sleep is also quite good last for the last 2 weeks. I try to listen to some sleep hypnosis or guided relaxation in the bed before falling asleep.

I don’t feel great but not the worst so coping okay.
Actually I found a new psychiatrist who supports tapering he advised me to cut 10% a week. But I’m not going to do it. I already have three unsuccessful fast taperings. So let’s see how I can work with him in the long run. I hope he will support me with slow tapering too.

Thanks very much that you want to help me , that’s really kind of you Venkat. I’m really glad your wife can help you.

I’ve made a small reduction recently and so far so good but I need to get more precise and use a method that makes it possible.

 

Kind regard 

Emily

[Venkat]

17 hours ago, Emily02 said:

Hi Venkat!

My sleep is also quite good last for the last 2 weeks. I try to listen to some sleep hypnosis or guided relaxation in the bed before falling asleep.

I don’t feel great but not the worst so coping okay.
Actually I found a new psychiatrist who supports tapering he advised me to cut 10% a week. But I’m not going to do it. I already have three unsuccessful fast taperings. So let’s see how I can work with him in the long run. I hope he will support me with slow tapering too.

Thanks very much that you want to help me , that’s really kind of you Venkat. I’m really glad your wife can help you.

I’ve made a small reduction recently and so far so good but I need to get more precise and use a method that makes it possible.

 

Kind regard 

Emily

Hi Emily 

 

I am extremely happy for you the way it's going . Wishing you and all of us a safe journey in the tapering process. One day we should be able to reach a drug free normal life.

 

Regards, venkat 

[Emily02]

Thanks very much Venkat.

Me too I’m looking forward for a drug free normal life. And I hope we both reach it in the not too distant future 

All the bests

Emily

[Venkat]

Thank you Emily 

 

Regards, venkat 

[manymoretodays]

Hi Venkat,

Any daily notes to post?  And good, good on your sleep of recent nights.

 

I will post the link for you:  https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/1779-keep-daily-notes-of-drug-schedule-and-symptoms-to-track-patterns-and-progress/

And then just try a few days, like the sample note shown in the first post there.  Do go take a read through too, of ^, at least the first post there, if/when you get a chance.  It doesn't have to take a lot of time or energy, but overtime, can be a really good way to keep in tune with what is going on, and then make decisions, and maybe any changes based on what you observe.  A good way to stay in tune with your body and what it is telling you.

 

Here's the sample note extracted:

- Time and dosage for all drugs taken throughout the day, psychiatric and non-psychiatric.

- Following each dose, note any symptoms. If you are having a reaction to the drug, it may take hours for a symptom to show up -- that's why we ask you to keep notes all day long.

- If you're not taking any drugs, your symptoms throughout the day.

- Your sleep pattern. Since so many drugs disturb sleep, if you find you're waking in the middle of the night, it could be from a drug you took earlier in the evening. If you're not taking any drugs, there may be ways you can improve your sleep.

And so forth. A diary, in chronological order, looking something like this:
 
6 a.m. Woke with anxiety
8 a.m. Took 2.5mg Lexapro
10 a.m. Stomach is upset
10:30 a.m. Ate breakfast
11:35 a.m. Got a headache, lasted one hour
12:35 p.m. Ate lunch
4 p.m. Feel a bit better
5 p.m. Took 2.5mg Lexapro
6 p.m. Ate dinner
9:20 p.m. Headache
10:00 p.m. Took 50mg Seroquel
10:20 p.m. Feeling dizzy
10:30 p.m. Fell asleep
2:30 a.m. Woke, took 3mg Ambien (NOT "took 1/2 tablet Ambien")
2:45 a.m. Fell asleep
4:30 a.m. Woke but got back to sleep

6 a.m. Woke with anxiety (but less than yesterday)

 

Give another try and then post 24 hours at a time.  I think it will really help to see, and then know what to do next.

 

And happy Holiday day today too!

 

L, P, H, and G,

mmt