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cathnz: tapering off Remeron / mirtazapine

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cathnz
1 hour ago, Altostrata said:

 

Who ordered the tests? If this was a naturopath's test for "toxins", you need more information. If you were exposed to actual toxins in the printing factory, these tests should be for specific toxins. If your toxin level was very high, I strongly recommend you speak to your medical doctor about this.

 

It could be you were sensitized by exposure to the chemicals. This is called Multiple Chemical Sensitivity, it heightens reactions to ordinary household chemicals as well.

 

 

@Shep's advice is good. You are in a bind. Paroxetine is an extraordinarily difficult drug to come off and you are showing signs of activation.

 

Ordinarily, we might suggest reinstatement of a very small amount of fluoxetine to substitute for Paxil, but it's possible it will make the activation worse. You can hold on as best you can and allow your nervous system to settle down. You will have to be very patient and practice self-soothing.

 

On the other hand, a very small amount of diazepam might help resolve a combination of benzo and Paxil withdrawal. Do you have any diazepam left?

 

I have been told by a leading psychiatrist that psychiatrists perceive current events as an anxiety emergency and are being more lenient in prescribing anti-anxiety drugs for the time being.

 

If you need to decrease mirtazapine, you can use a liquid. This does not need a lot of equipment

 

Thanks @Altostrata. Yes, I am in a bind aren't I 😔

 

Who ordered the tests?

Yes a naturopath. It wasn't specifically for toxins... it was for a huge range of things (vitamin, mineral, omegas, aminos). Toxicity levels were just one small part. I would need to get more testing to find out what toxins specifically, but I'm financially unable to do that right now with my workplace being shut down. I'm wondering if there's anything that I can do to help myself here... my go to in the past would have been an antioxidant. But remiss to try that now (although have been contemplating a very small amount of NAC again... what are your thoughts?) .

 

You are showing signs of activation

Does this pertain to paroxetine withdrawal or the Mirtazapine? Sorry, not 100% sure what this means. 

 

You will have to be very patient and practice self-soothing

I am trying very hard. That's all that's got me through the last 6 months when I've desperately wanted to run back to dr for help. I've read Claire Weekes ALOT. I try to distract ALOT. I try mindfulness practise, but the discomfort and restlessness when sitting still makes this hard. I want to climb out of my skin when I'm sitting still quietly. 

I'm going to try and incorporate EFT... its worth a shot. Is it something you've tried? 

@MissyEE. has also been doing Irene Lyons nervous system regulation programme which I'm currently looking into the free resources for. I'm trying to bring as much calm to my system as possible... it feels impossible right now in the circumstances. My body is screaming hate at me!!!! 

 

Do you have any diazepam left?

I have about 30 x 5mg left. These were prescribed back in Aug 19. I'm not sure if they'll still be ok as I can't see an expiry on them? @Shep 

Our government (NZ) have made a statement that as from today, all prescriptions will only be issued at amounts of 1 month at a time. This is to stop people stock piling and a supply issue problem arising. This terrifies me. But there's nothing I can do, so I have to try and focus on what I CAN control. 

 

This is very left feild, and probably along the lines of supplements, but what is your stance on homeopathy? I have looked through all the threads on here, but a lot seem to be old posts. I'm desperate to help find some calm, in the least invasive way possible. Would this potentially be a less invasive thing to try

before a benzo? I know it may not work. It may be placebo. But hell. I'll take placebo if it works!!! Just as long as it doesn't hinder!! In your opinion is it as likely to hinder as supplements? 

 

 

Here are my notes for yesterday

Thurs 26th March

 

6.30am - Woke up. Terrible headache. Usual electrical buzzing through body and brain. 

 

7am - Got up and took painkillers (paracetamol) for headache.

 

8.45m - More intense wave of brain buzzing. As well as the electrical feeling, my brain feels like it's burning. Teeth feel like they're vibrating.

 

10.15am - Electrical buzzing deep inside chest has now also increased in intensity.

 

12.10am - Had hot shower. Let water run over legs to try and distract from legs feeling electric.

 

12.30pm - Ate some gluten free oats and banana for lunch. Drunk first glass of water for the day.

 

1.05pm- Struggling with ears being sensitive to loud noises.

 

3.45pm - Noticed some internal tremors.

 

4.30pm - Snacked on some nuts and dates

 

6.30pm - Dinner

 

7.30pm Gnawing deep in solar plexus is  (haven't had for a week or two ).

 

8pm - Nerves in upper back feel sensitive again now (had this a few months ago) . Can't stand to be hugged or touched (unless very firmly). Burning feeling too.
 

8.45pm - 30mg Mirtazapine 

 

9.30pm - Bed. Gnawing and buzzing in deep solar plexus still bad. Rest of body (head, chest, genitals, legs) still have electrical buzzing as per the rest of the day.  Asleep by 10.30pm.


 

Aug 2004 - Dec 2006: Aropax ( 20mg - 30mg). Aug 2007: Fluoxetine (for 3 weeks).

Sept 07 - July 12: Lexapro ( 10mg - 20mg). Pooped out July 12. Titrated down off Lexapro over 3 weeks and switched to Paroxetine (with Xanax to cover switch for 2 weeks).

Aug 2012 - Aug 2019: Paroxetine (titrated up to 20mg in first few weeks,, dose reduced to 15mg . for 7 years until it 'pooped out'.

4th Aug 2019 - Reduced dose of paroxetine to 10mg (for 1 day) - under phychiatrists directions. Last dose of paroxetine.

5th Aug 2019 - Switch to 15mg Mirtazapine.

5th Aug - 15th Aug 2019 - 15mg Mirtazapine plus intermitent use of Lorazapm (0.25- 0.5 . Also used 12.5mg Quetiapine for 3 nights for sleep.

23rd Aug 2019 - Ended up in crisis team. Mirtazapine increased to 30mg. Diazapam 10mg twice daily.

30th Aug 2019 - Mirtazapine 30mg + Diazapam reduced to 7.5mg twice daily

6th Sept 2019 - Mirtazapine 30mg + Diazapam reduced to 5mg twice daily

13th Sept 2019 - Mirtazapine increased to 45mg. Diazapam increased back up to 10mg twice daily.

20th Sept - 29th Sept 2019: Mirtazapine 45mg. Diazapam being reduced from 10mg down to 0mg this week (in 2mg increments couple of days).

30th Sept - Thursday 3rd Oct 2019: Mirtazapine 45mg. WORST ANXIETY EVER. Akathisia. Couldn't stay still. Suicidal idealization.

Friday 4th October - present: Reduced from 45mg to 30mg (straight drop to alleviate akathisia - reduction definitely helped alot but still not gone completely)

 

 

, Vit B6, Curcumin, Magnesium (no adverse effects from adding these supplements - have helped akathisia somewhat).

* Everything done from 23rd August under care of outpatient crisis team management.

 

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Shep
3 hours ago, cathnz said:

Do you have any diazepam left?

I have about 30 x 5mg left. These were prescribed back in Aug 19. I'm not sure if they'll still be ok as I can't see an expiry on them? @Shep 

Our government (NZ) have made a statement that as from today, all prescriptions will only be issued at amounts of 1 month at a time. This is to stop people stock piling and a supply issue problem arising. This terrifies me. But there's nothing I can do, so I have to try and focus on what I CAN control. 

 

 

It's really a hit or a miss to add a benzo back in this far out. Some people find that the benzo just doesn't work or it turns paradoxical. You also risk kindling. 

 

You could take a small amount of Valium as a trial run for 2 or 3 days and see how you feel. That's not long enough to develop dependency again. 

 

I'm not sure about the expiry date, though. I would think if you got a new prescription 7 months ago, they should be okay. You may want to reach out to your pharmacist and see if they can tell you anything. 

 

How is your sleep? Are you sleeping straight through the night? 


Drug free May 22, 2015 after 30 years of neuroleptics, benzos, z-drugs, so-called "anti"-depressants, and amphetamines 

 

My Success Story:  Shep's Success: "Leaving Plato's Cave"

 

And what is good, Phaedrus, and what is not good — need we ask anyone to tell us these things? ~ Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

 

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Altostrata
5 hours ago, cathnz said:

Yes a naturopath. It wasn't specifically for toxins... it was for a huge range of things (vitamin, mineral, omegas, aminos). Toxicity levels were just one small part. I would need to get more testing to find out what toxins specifically, but I'm financially unable to do that right now with my workplace being shut down.

 

Please put this aside for now. Those tests are not very meaningful.

 

I am neutral on homeopathy. I would not rely on it to treat withdrawal syndrome. Acupuncture might help, if you can get it. You'll have to make sure the practitioner understands you're not depressed, your system needs calming.

 

5 hours ago, cathnz said:

You are showing signs of activation

Does this pertain to paroxetine withdrawal or the Mirtazapine? Sorry, not 100% sure what this means. 

 

Activation means your nervous system is revved up. It could be from paroxetine or benzodiazepine withdrawal or it could be from an adverse reaction, like you had to mirtazapine when you first took it. When the mirtazapine takes effect at night, how do you feel this?

 

If you have 30 tablets of 5mg diazepam. you can make a liquid from a tablet and see what a very small amount, such as 0.5mg, does.

 

If you are sleeping, though, that may be enough to pull you through. Sleep is healing.

 

 


This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

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cathnz
4 hours ago, Shep said:

 

It's really a hit or a miss to add a benzo back in this far out. Some people find that the benzo just doesn't work or it turns paradoxical. You also risk kindling. 

 

You could take a small amount of Valium as a trial run for 2 or 3 days and see how you feel. That's not long enough to develop dependency again. 

 

I'm not sure about the expiry date, though. I would think if you got a new prescription 7 months ago, they should be okay. You may want to reach out to your pharmacist and see if they can tell you anything. 

 

How is your sleep? Are you sleeping straight through the night? 

 

Thanks @Shep.

 

Yes, USUALLY I sleep through the night (not always). For the most part, I'd get about 7 hours a night. Not sure on the quality of the sleep (sometimes I feel semi aware of my discomfort or dream about distressing things) , but I'm so grateful to be sleeping at all. It's probably the main reason I haven't run screaming from the Mirtazapine (which is constantly in the back of my mind questioning an adverse reaction). The thought of trialing something else instead, and mucking up my sleep is too unappealing. Plus, I don't know if all this horrible electricity and inner agitation is even the Mirt. So I guess for now, I'll stick with the devil I know, because sleep is precious and I'm so grateful to have it. 

 

Re the 2-3 day trial of Valium... I didn't realise that a short trial like that would be ok. So can an 'emergency' dose in extreme situations be used, just to bring some calm back to the system? I realise kindling may be an issue... but is there a chance it may not if just used for a couple of days? So am I correct in thinking they just be used for a couple of days then stopped safely? Sorry for all the questions... for me, benzos have just had a big flashing neon sign saying "stay away... danger... you'll end up in worse withdrawl even from one dose!!!" lol. So I've been far too scared to go near them again, even on days when I was nearly climbing up the walls! I find it almost soothing to know there's an emergency option... even if I don't ever use it. 


 

Aug 2004 - Dec 2006: Aropax ( 20mg - 30mg). Aug 2007: Fluoxetine (for 3 weeks).

Sept 07 - July 12: Lexapro ( 10mg - 20mg). Pooped out July 12. Titrated down off Lexapro over 3 weeks and switched to Paroxetine (with Xanax to cover switch for 2 weeks).

Aug 2012 - Aug 2019: Paroxetine (titrated up to 20mg in first few weeks,, dose reduced to 15mg . for 7 years until it 'pooped out'.

4th Aug 2019 - Reduced dose of paroxetine to 10mg (for 1 day) - under phychiatrists directions. Last dose of paroxetine.

5th Aug 2019 - Switch to 15mg Mirtazapine.

5th Aug - 15th Aug 2019 - 15mg Mirtazapine plus intermitent use of Lorazapm (0.25- 0.5 . Also used 12.5mg Quetiapine for 3 nights for sleep.

23rd Aug 2019 - Ended up in crisis team. Mirtazapine increased to 30mg. Diazapam 10mg twice daily.

30th Aug 2019 - Mirtazapine 30mg + Diazapam reduced to 7.5mg twice daily

6th Sept 2019 - Mirtazapine 30mg + Diazapam reduced to 5mg twice daily

13th Sept 2019 - Mirtazapine increased to 45mg. Diazapam increased back up to 10mg twice daily.

20th Sept - 29th Sept 2019: Mirtazapine 45mg. Diazapam being reduced from 10mg down to 0mg this week (in 2mg increments couple of days).

30th Sept - Thursday 3rd Oct 2019: Mirtazapine 45mg. WORST ANXIETY EVER. Akathisia. Couldn't stay still. Suicidal idealization.

Friday 4th October - present: Reduced from 45mg to 30mg (straight drop to alleviate akathisia - reduction definitely helped alot but still not gone completely)

 

 

, Vit B6, Curcumin, Magnesium (no adverse effects from adding these supplements - have helped akathisia somewhat).

* Everything done from 23rd August under care of outpatient crisis team management.

 

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cathnz
2 hours ago, Altostrata said:

 

Please put this aside for now. Those tests are not very meaningful.

 

I am neutral on homeopathy. I would not rely on it to treat withdrawal syndrome. Acupuncture might help, if you can get it. You'll have to make sure the practitioner understands you're not depressed, your system needs calming.

 

 

Activation means your nervous system is revved up. It could be from paroxetine or benzodiazepine withdrawal or it could be from an adverse reaction, like you had to mirtazapine when you first took it. When the mirtazapine takes effect at night, how do you feel this?

 

If you have 30 tablets of 5mg diazepam. you can make a liquid from a tablet and see what a very small amount, such as 0.5mg, does.

 

If you are sleeping, though, that may be enough to pull you through. Sleep is healing.

 

 

 

Thanks @Altostrata

 

When the mirtazapine takes effect at night, how do you feel this?

No change in physical sensations at all. They're the same from morning to night (other than patches through the day or night where they might increase sporadically... but not specifically after taking Mirtazapine) . 

Because I take it when I'm ready to go to bed, I usually just feel tired after taking it. Not always, and some nights I do feel more revved up. But on the whole, tired enough to go to sleep. And the Mirtazapine does seem to give me the munchies. It is usually the one time of day I feel hungry, and its also the time of day I'm most likely to eat junk, because I'm in that "I don't care" state. 

 


 

Aug 2004 - Dec 2006: Aropax ( 20mg - 30mg). Aug 2007: Fluoxetine (for 3 weeks).

Sept 07 - July 12: Lexapro ( 10mg - 20mg). Pooped out July 12. Titrated down off Lexapro over 3 weeks and switched to Paroxetine (with Xanax to cover switch for 2 weeks).

Aug 2012 - Aug 2019: Paroxetine (titrated up to 20mg in first few weeks,, dose reduced to 15mg . for 7 years until it 'pooped out'.

4th Aug 2019 - Reduced dose of paroxetine to 10mg (for 1 day) - under phychiatrists directions. Last dose of paroxetine.

5th Aug 2019 - Switch to 15mg Mirtazapine.

5th Aug - 15th Aug 2019 - 15mg Mirtazapine plus intermitent use of Lorazapm (0.25- 0.5 . Also used 12.5mg Quetiapine for 3 nights for sleep.

23rd Aug 2019 - Ended up in crisis team. Mirtazapine increased to 30mg. Diazapam 10mg twice daily.

30th Aug 2019 - Mirtazapine 30mg + Diazapam reduced to 7.5mg twice daily

6th Sept 2019 - Mirtazapine 30mg + Diazapam reduced to 5mg twice daily

13th Sept 2019 - Mirtazapine increased to 45mg. Diazapam increased back up to 10mg twice daily.

20th Sept - 29th Sept 2019: Mirtazapine 45mg. Diazapam being reduced from 10mg down to 0mg this week (in 2mg increments couple of days).

30th Sept - Thursday 3rd Oct 2019: Mirtazapine 45mg. WORST ANXIETY EVER. Akathisia. Couldn't stay still. Suicidal idealization.

Friday 4th October - present: Reduced from 45mg to 30mg (straight drop to alleviate akathisia - reduction definitely helped alot but still not gone completely)

 

 

, Vit B6, Curcumin, Magnesium (no adverse effects from adding these supplements - have helped akathisia somewhat).

* Everything done from 23rd August under care of outpatient crisis team management.

 

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MissyE

Cath, try to find one non drug technique to soothe you and stick with it.  It's tempting to do everything to try and stop feeling so horrible.  I totally get it. Yes Irene heart meditation might be too much right now.  Try her orientation or a simple body scan.  There are lots of things on SA too. 

Be gentle with yourself love.  Trust in Alto and our SA moderators who are helping you, they know what they're talking about. Stick with their advice, it will get better. 

Missy x


MissyE

2008 Dec-Feb 2009 GP diazipam; Dec-Jun 2009 fluoxetine. 2010 Jan citalopram approx 4 weeks, Jan- Aug fluox, Oct-Jun 2011 paroxetine; Aug - Dec venlafaxine 37.5mg - 75mg. 2012 Mar-Jul reinstate ven 150mg; Aug swap to fluox 40mg (preg) - Mar 2013  reinstate ven 150mg. 2015 Nov swap to fluox 40mg (preg) Dec suicidal reinstated ven 300mg

2018 Jan ven "pooped" buspirone added/stopped; pentagablin added; March pent stopped & ven taper - 0 June; August betablockers started/ stopped; September mirtazapine 15mg and diazepam 2mg started/stopped; October ven 300mg reinstated. 

2019 Jan psychiatrist added mirt 15mg (aiming for "California rocket fuel" therapeutic dose).  No more meds: gradual taper mirt Feb-April (taken for < 3 weeks).

Commenced ven taper 5-10% 6-10 weekly 2019 April - Nov: 225mg.  Tapering 8 weekly in alignment with menstrual cycle 2020 Jan 212.5mg; Mar 200mg; Jun 187.5mg

Daily: 4g Omega 3 (3g epa & dha) 400IU vitamin E

2 puffs pulmicort inhaler.

This too shall pass.

 

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Shep
6 hours ago, cathnz said:

Re the 2-3 day trial of Valium... I didn't realise that a short trial like that would be ok. So can an 'emergency' dose in extreme situations be used, just to bring some calm back to the system? I realise kindling may be an issue... but is there a chance it may not if just used for a couple of days? So am I correct in thinking they just be used for a couple of days then stopped safely? Sorry for all the questions... for me, benzos have just had a big flashing neon sign saying "stay away... danger... you'll end up in worse withdrawl even from one dose!!!" lol. So I've been far too scared to go near them again, even on days when I was nearly climbing up the walls! I find it almost soothing to know there's an emergency option... even if I don't ever use it. 

 

If it helps in an emergency, I would opt for that rather than, for example, going to the emergency room. Whether it will result in kindling or if you'll have a paradoxical or other type of reaction to it is unknown, but by limiting it to a small dose and for just a trial run, you're decreasing the chances. 

 

The next time you're, as you say, "climbing up the walls," you may want to try a small amount of .25 - .5 mg, and see how you do. 


Drug free May 22, 2015 after 30 years of neuroleptics, benzos, z-drugs, so-called "anti"-depressants, and amphetamines 

 

My Success Story:  Shep's Success: "Leaving Plato's Cave"

 

And what is good, Phaedrus, and what is not good — need we ask anyone to tell us these things? ~ Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

 

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cathnz
36 minutes ago, Shep said:

 

If it helps in an emergency, I would opt for that rather than, for example, going to the emergency room. Whether it will result in kindling or if you'll have a paradoxical or other type of reaction to it is unknown, but by limiting it to a small dose and for just a trial run, you're decreasing the chances. 

 

The next time you're, as you say, "climbing up the walls," you may want to try a small amount of .25 - .5 mg, and see how you do. 

 

@Shep oh gosh, can you believe that tonight is one of those climbing the walls nights. The worst I've had. I can USUALLY sleep, but I took my Mirtazapine 4 hours ago, and unusually, am still awake due to the electrical buzzing and crawling all over my skin. Its never been this extreme to keep me awake. I'm so scared and confused as to why after 8 months it's getting worse and worse daily. I've made no med changes for about 6 months now. I'm so scared. I desperately want to be put out of this physical misery... I want to crawl out of my skin. But I'm trying to resist the benzo with everything I've got for now... besides which... I have nothing on hand to make a dose that small (i. E syringes which I assume I'll need). Can you please advise how to make a dose that small in order for me to get what I need for the future. 


 

Aug 2004 - Dec 2006: Aropax ( 20mg - 30mg). Aug 2007: Fluoxetine (for 3 weeks).

Sept 07 - July 12: Lexapro ( 10mg - 20mg). Pooped out July 12. Titrated down off Lexapro over 3 weeks and switched to Paroxetine (with Xanax to cover switch for 2 weeks).

Aug 2012 - Aug 2019: Paroxetine (titrated up to 20mg in first few weeks,, dose reduced to 15mg . for 7 years until it 'pooped out'.

4th Aug 2019 - Reduced dose of paroxetine to 10mg (for 1 day) - under phychiatrists directions. Last dose of paroxetine.

5th Aug 2019 - Switch to 15mg Mirtazapine.

5th Aug - 15th Aug 2019 - 15mg Mirtazapine plus intermitent use of Lorazapm (0.25- 0.5 . Also used 12.5mg Quetiapine for 3 nights for sleep.

23rd Aug 2019 - Ended up in crisis team. Mirtazapine increased to 30mg. Diazapam 10mg twice daily.

30th Aug 2019 - Mirtazapine 30mg + Diazapam reduced to 7.5mg twice daily

6th Sept 2019 - Mirtazapine 30mg + Diazapam reduced to 5mg twice daily

13th Sept 2019 - Mirtazapine increased to 45mg. Diazapam increased back up to 10mg twice daily.

20th Sept - 29th Sept 2019: Mirtazapine 45mg. Diazapam being reduced from 10mg down to 0mg this week (in 2mg increments couple of days).

30th Sept - Thursday 3rd Oct 2019: Mirtazapine 45mg. WORST ANXIETY EVER. Akathisia. Couldn't stay still. Suicidal idealization.

Friday 4th October - present: Reduced from 45mg to 30mg (straight drop to alleviate akathisia - reduction definitely helped alot but still not gone completely)

 

 

, Vit B6, Curcumin, Magnesium (no adverse effects from adding these supplements - have helped akathisia somewhat).

* Everything done from 23rd August under care of outpatient crisis team management.

 

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Shep

Do you have the 5 mg Valium pills? 

 

If so, you could place the 5 mg pill into 20 mL of water and take 1 mL. That would be .25 mg. 

 

Or you could cut the 5 mg pill into 8 pieces carefully using a pill cutter. That will be .625 mg, approximately (pill cutting is not as exact as using a scale). I wouldn't worry about it having to be exact for just one dose. The goal is to see if you get some relief off a small dose. 


Drug free May 22, 2015 after 30 years of neuroleptics, benzos, z-drugs, so-called "anti"-depressants, and amphetamines 

 

My Success Story:  Shep's Success: "Leaving Plato's Cave"

 

And what is good, Phaedrus, and what is not good — need we ask anyone to tell us these things? ~ Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

 

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cathnz

@Altostrata tonight my body is in a very very very bad state. The electrical buzzing and skin crawling has been getting progressively worse over the last few weeks, to the point of tonight, it being the worst its been ever. 4 hours after my Mirtazapine dose, and unusually, I am still awake due to the severity of wanting to climb out of my skin tonight. Its worse than when I was climbing the walls at the 45mg back in October. I guess the only difference between now and then is the sheer dogged determination I have through the insight I've gained ( I knew nothing about the med problems back then). This feels nothing short of torture.

 

Is there ANY way to experiment safely as to whether its the Mirtazapine or not... say if I were to take half a tablet JUST for tomorrow night (so 15mg... or even a lesser drop, to say 22mg), and see if things ease off... if they do, could I assume its the Mirtazapine? Would you expect things to ease that quickly? Would the risk of withdrawl be too great from a one off dose drop (my logic is that it would be no worse than say accidently forgetting one dose... I'd be at least getting half of the amount). I would just resume my normal amount the next night and have a clearer idea where too from there? I know I'm probably grasping at straws, and it might take longer than that to know due to the half life (I think it might have taken a few days to see results when I dropped from 45mg to 30mg). I obviously don't want to do anything stupid that will make matters worse in the long run. 

 

I'm sorry. I'm just beside myself in discomfort here. I just don't understand why things have suddenly got worse and worse the last couple of weeks. 


 

Aug 2004 - Dec 2006: Aropax ( 20mg - 30mg). Aug 2007: Fluoxetine (for 3 weeks).

Sept 07 - July 12: Lexapro ( 10mg - 20mg). Pooped out July 12. Titrated down off Lexapro over 3 weeks and switched to Paroxetine (with Xanax to cover switch for 2 weeks).

Aug 2012 - Aug 2019: Paroxetine (titrated up to 20mg in first few weeks,, dose reduced to 15mg . for 7 years until it 'pooped out'.

4th Aug 2019 - Reduced dose of paroxetine to 10mg (for 1 day) - under phychiatrists directions. Last dose of paroxetine.

5th Aug 2019 - Switch to 15mg Mirtazapine.

5th Aug - 15th Aug 2019 - 15mg Mirtazapine plus intermitent use of Lorazapm (0.25- 0.5 . Also used 12.5mg Quetiapine for 3 nights for sleep.

23rd Aug 2019 - Ended up in crisis team. Mirtazapine increased to 30mg. Diazapam 10mg twice daily.

30th Aug 2019 - Mirtazapine 30mg + Diazapam reduced to 7.5mg twice daily

6th Sept 2019 - Mirtazapine 30mg + Diazapam reduced to 5mg twice daily

13th Sept 2019 - Mirtazapine increased to 45mg. Diazapam increased back up to 10mg twice daily.

20th Sept - 29th Sept 2019: Mirtazapine 45mg. Diazapam being reduced from 10mg down to 0mg this week (in 2mg increments couple of days).

30th Sept - Thursday 3rd Oct 2019: Mirtazapine 45mg. WORST ANXIETY EVER. Akathisia. Couldn't stay still. Suicidal idealization.

Friday 4th October - present: Reduced from 45mg to 30mg (straight drop to alleviate akathisia - reduction definitely helped alot but still not gone completely)

 

 

, Vit B6, Curcumin, Magnesium (no adverse effects from adding these supplements - have helped akathisia somewhat).

* Everything done from 23rd August under care of outpatient crisis team management.

 

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Shep
7 hours ago, cathnz said:

Yes, USUALLY I sleep through the night (not always). For the most part, I'd get about 7 hours a night.

 

Cath, if you are usually getting this much sleep, I would use the Valium once for this one-off and then see if you can manage without adding Valium in regularly. 

 

You have the information should you decide to use the Valium for emergencies, so hopefully that will be reassuring. 

 

Sleeping 7 hours a night for the most part, as you noted, and now having a bad night just means you're having a bad night. Please try not to go down an emotional spiral. 

 

Bad nights pass. But reintroducing a benzo could mean months of tapering and it may bring insomnia, so please weigh your options. 

 

Just some thoughts. 


Drug free May 22, 2015 after 30 years of neuroleptics, benzos, z-drugs, so-called "anti"-depressants, and amphetamines 

 

My Success Story:  Shep's Success: "Leaving Plato's Cave"

 

And what is good, Phaedrus, and what is not good — need we ask anyone to tell us these things? ~ Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

 

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cathnz
9 minutes ago, Shep said:

 

Cath, if you are usually getting this much sleep, I would use the Valium once for this one-off and then see if you can manage without adding Valium in regularly. 

 

You have the information should you decide to use the Valium for emergencies, so hopefully that will be reassuring. 

 

Sleeping 7 hours a night for the most part, as you noted, and now having a bad night just means you're having a bad night. Please try not to go down an emotional spiral. 

 

Bad nights pass. But reintroducing a benzo could mean months of tapering and it may bring insomnia, so please weigh your options. 

 

Just some thoughts. 

 

@Shep I agree. My husband is begging me to use the Valium, he doesn't like seeing me in this much physical discomfort (and he's not pro meds at all) . He doesn't understand why I won't. But like you said, I don't want to be faced with months of possibly tapering a benzo.

 

I'm going to face this bad night with everything I've got and hope it's a one off. God  only knows why the sensations are getting worse. 

 

Thankyou for giving me the small dose strategy should I need it. 


 

Aug 2004 - Dec 2006: Aropax ( 20mg - 30mg). Aug 2007: Fluoxetine (for 3 weeks).

Sept 07 - July 12: Lexapro ( 10mg - 20mg). Pooped out July 12. Titrated down off Lexapro over 3 weeks and switched to Paroxetine (with Xanax to cover switch for 2 weeks).

Aug 2012 - Aug 2019: Paroxetine (titrated up to 20mg in first few weeks,, dose reduced to 15mg . for 7 years until it 'pooped out'.

4th Aug 2019 - Reduced dose of paroxetine to 10mg (for 1 day) - under phychiatrists directions. Last dose of paroxetine.

5th Aug 2019 - Switch to 15mg Mirtazapine.

5th Aug - 15th Aug 2019 - 15mg Mirtazapine plus intermitent use of Lorazapm (0.25- 0.5 . Also used 12.5mg Quetiapine for 3 nights for sleep.

23rd Aug 2019 - Ended up in crisis team. Mirtazapine increased to 30mg. Diazapam 10mg twice daily.

30th Aug 2019 - Mirtazapine 30mg + Diazapam reduced to 7.5mg twice daily

6th Sept 2019 - Mirtazapine 30mg + Diazapam reduced to 5mg twice daily

13th Sept 2019 - Mirtazapine increased to 45mg. Diazapam increased back up to 10mg twice daily.

20th Sept - 29th Sept 2019: Mirtazapine 45mg. Diazapam being reduced from 10mg down to 0mg this week (in 2mg increments couple of days).

30th Sept - Thursday 3rd Oct 2019: Mirtazapine 45mg. WORST ANXIETY EVER. Akathisia. Couldn't stay still. Suicidal idealization.

Friday 4th October - present: Reduced from 45mg to 30mg (straight drop to alleviate akathisia - reduction definitely helped alot but still not gone completely)

 

 

, Vit B6, Curcumin, Magnesium (no adverse effects from adding these supplements - have helped akathisia somewhat).

* Everything done from 23rd August under care of outpatient crisis team management.

 

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Altostrata
11 hours ago, cathnz said:

It is usually the one time of day I feel hungry, and its also the time of day I'm most likely to eat junk, because I'm in that "I don't care" state. 

 

What time of day (o'clock) does this happen?

 

It's unlikely that mirtazapine is causing your symptoms because they don't increase after you take it at night and they don't decrease as mirtazapine wears off during the day.

 

Benzos are not inherently evil. They're not as bad for you as antipsychotics. Since all these drugs incur dependency, we don't view "addictive" as being very meaningful.

 

If a little diazepam stops your symptoms and calms your nervous system, we'll all for it. We'll help you taper by tiny amounts later.


This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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cathnz

 

@Altostrata,  

 

What time of day (o'clock) does this happen?

It happens between taking my Mirtazapine and going to sleep. So usually between 8.30pm and 11pm.

 

The irony is not lost on me that after saying just yesterday that I don't notice any ill effects after taking Mirtazapine because generally I go straight to sleep... that last night I was wide awake until after 4am and suffering worse than ever. I've never had a night like it (or day). It was most definitely worse than during the day, but maybe because I couldn't distract myself? 

 

If I face the same tonight, I may have to dry a tiny bit of benzo. 

 

One other thing... I forgot to say, the test I had done showed extremely low Vit E (as well as b12 and iron among other things). I remember my naturopath saying low vit e can contribute to parathesia (as can the other deficiencys). I know supplements are best steered clear of, but I see you recommend vit e to be taken with fish oil to help absorption. So can I assume vit e isn't too activating? Is it something to try? My levels of all those things were pretty low, so hopefully its not making matters worse. The parathesia is new the last couple of weeks... before that it was just the deep internal buzzing (mire like akathisia). Now it's that, coupled with the skin crawling (more on the surface) as well. 

 


 

Aug 2004 - Dec 2006: Aropax ( 20mg - 30mg). Aug 2007: Fluoxetine (for 3 weeks).

Sept 07 - July 12: Lexapro ( 10mg - 20mg). Pooped out July 12. Titrated down off Lexapro over 3 weeks and switched to Paroxetine (with Xanax to cover switch for 2 weeks).

Aug 2012 - Aug 2019: Paroxetine (titrated up to 20mg in first few weeks,, dose reduced to 15mg . for 7 years until it 'pooped out'.

4th Aug 2019 - Reduced dose of paroxetine to 10mg (for 1 day) - under phychiatrists directions. Last dose of paroxetine.

5th Aug 2019 - Switch to 15mg Mirtazapine.

5th Aug - 15th Aug 2019 - 15mg Mirtazapine plus intermitent use of Lorazapm (0.25- 0.5 . Also used 12.5mg Quetiapine for 3 nights for sleep.

23rd Aug 2019 - Ended up in crisis team. Mirtazapine increased to 30mg. Diazapam 10mg twice daily.

30th Aug 2019 - Mirtazapine 30mg + Diazapam reduced to 7.5mg twice daily

6th Sept 2019 - Mirtazapine 30mg + Diazapam reduced to 5mg twice daily

13th Sept 2019 - Mirtazapine increased to 45mg. Diazapam increased back up to 10mg twice daily.

20th Sept - 29th Sept 2019: Mirtazapine 45mg. Diazapam being reduced from 10mg down to 0mg this week (in 2mg increments couple of days).

30th Sept - Thursday 3rd Oct 2019: Mirtazapine 45mg. WORST ANXIETY EVER. Akathisia. Couldn't stay still. Suicidal idealization.

Friday 4th October - present: Reduced from 45mg to 30mg (straight drop to alleviate akathisia - reduction definitely helped alot but still not gone completely)

 

 

, Vit B6, Curcumin, Magnesium (no adverse effects from adding these supplements - have helped akathisia somewhat).

* Everything done from 23rd August under care of outpatient crisis team management.

 

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Altostrata
1 minute ago, cathnz said:

It was most definitely worse than during the day, but maybe because I couldn't distract myself? 

 

If I face the same tonight, I may have to dry a tiny bit of benzo. 

 

Strongly advise learning to distract rather than resorting to a benzo for this. Benzos cause more problems than they solve. See

 

Easing your way into meditation for a stressed-out nervous system

 

Music for self-care: calms hyperalertness, anxiety, aids relaxation and sleep

 

Ways to cope with daily anxiety

 

3 minutes ago, cathnz said:

One other thing... I forgot to say, the test I had done showed extremely low Vit E (as well as b12 and iron among other things). I remember my naturopath saying low vit e can contribute to parathesia (as can the other deficiencys). I know supplements are best steered clear of, but I see you recommend vit e to be taken with fish oil to help absorption. So can I assume vit e isn't too activating? Is it something to try? My levels of all those things were pretty low, so hopefully its not making matters worse. The parathesia is new the last couple of weeks... before that it was just the deep internal buzzing (mire like akathisia). Now it's that, coupled with the skin crawling (more on the surface) as well. 

 

Yes, we recommend taking 400IU vitamin E per day with fish oil. Magnesium is good, too. See


https://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/36-king-of-supplements-omega-3-fatty-acids-fish-oil/
https://survivingantidepressants.org/topic/15483-magnesium-natures-calcium-channel-blocker/

 

You might try a little bit of one at a time to see how it affects you.

 

If you are low in vitamin B12, that can cause significant neurological symptoms. You can gradually titrate up with a sublingual or chewable B12 tablet: Take a tiny crumb every day for week, then a larger crumb, etc., until you are taking the whole tablet. Again, try only one thing at a time. If you feel it's activating, stop taking it, you can resume with tiny crumbs later on.

 


This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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cathnz

@Altostrata

@Altostrata

I don't want to resort to a benzo by any means. I've been fighting it tooth and nail as per my previous posts. But I readjusted my thinking as per your previous message where you said... 

 

"Benzos are not inherently evil. They're not as bad for you as antipsychotics. Since all these drugs incur dependency, we don't view "addictive" as being very meaningful.

 

If a little diazepam stops your symptoms and calms your nervous system, we'll all for it. We'll help you taper by tiny amounts later."

 

So now I'm a bit confused. 


 

Aug 2004 - Dec 2006: Aropax ( 20mg - 30mg). Aug 2007: Fluoxetine (for 3 weeks).

Sept 07 - July 12: Lexapro ( 10mg - 20mg). Pooped out July 12. Titrated down off Lexapro over 3 weeks and switched to Paroxetine (with Xanax to cover switch for 2 weeks).

Aug 2012 - Aug 2019: Paroxetine (titrated up to 20mg in first few weeks,, dose reduced to 15mg . for 7 years until it 'pooped out'.

4th Aug 2019 - Reduced dose of paroxetine to 10mg (for 1 day) - under phychiatrists directions. Last dose of paroxetine.

5th Aug 2019 - Switch to 15mg Mirtazapine.

5th Aug - 15th Aug 2019 - 15mg Mirtazapine plus intermitent use of Lorazapm (0.25- 0.5 . Also used 12.5mg Quetiapine for 3 nights for sleep.

23rd Aug 2019 - Ended up in crisis team. Mirtazapine increased to 30mg. Diazapam 10mg twice daily.

30th Aug 2019 - Mirtazapine 30mg + Diazapam reduced to 7.5mg twice daily

6th Sept 2019 - Mirtazapine 30mg + Diazapam reduced to 5mg twice daily

13th Sept 2019 - Mirtazapine increased to 45mg. Diazapam increased back up to 10mg twice daily.

20th Sept - 29th Sept 2019: Mirtazapine 45mg. Diazapam being reduced from 10mg down to 0mg this week (in 2mg increments couple of days).

30th Sept - Thursday 3rd Oct 2019: Mirtazapine 45mg. WORST ANXIETY EVER. Akathisia. Couldn't stay still. Suicidal idealization.

Friday 4th October - present: Reduced from 45mg to 30mg (straight drop to alleviate akathisia - reduction definitely helped alot but still not gone completely)

 

 

, Vit B6, Curcumin, Magnesium (no adverse effects from adding these supplements - have helped akathisia somewhat).

* Everything done from 23rd August under care of outpatient crisis team management.

 

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Shep

Cath, I can understand this, as there are some contradictions here. 

 

I think part of the problem is it's hard to gage if you're simply having a bump in the road or you're in a serious crisis state. Usually when people resort to reinstating a benzo, it's after weeks of acute and chronic insomnia. The fact that until this one night you were sleeping 7 hours a night is making this more difficult to gage. 

 

 

16 hours ago, cathnz said:

It was most definitely worse than during the day, but maybe because I couldn't distract myself? 

 

If I face the same tonight, I may have to dry a tiny bit of benzo. 

 

Do you mean your symptoms were so severe that you couldn't distract yourself or that you couldn't find a distraction that helped? 

 

How was last night? Were you able to sleep? 


Drug free May 22, 2015 after 30 years of neuroleptics, benzos, z-drugs, so-called "anti"-depressants, and amphetamines 

 

My Success Story:  Shep's Success: "Leaving Plato's Cave"

 

And what is good, Phaedrus, and what is not good — need we ask anyone to tell us these things? ~ Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

 

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cathnz

Thanks @Shep

 

I wasn't able to distract because when I lie still, I feel the sensations worse... I feel really restless. Moving around helps. But my husband and son were asleep so moving around wasn't an option. 

 

Yes, I realise how lucky I usually am to get sleep. It is an absolute blessing. I don't fare well with little sleep (even for just one night)... I become extremely emotionally unstable. So I didn't want to risk consecutive days. 

 

Thankfully, last night I slept!! About 7 hours again. I'm so grateful!! I'd had a very very bad day, so sleep was such a welcolme reprieve. 

 

My daily symptom log for yesterday is as follows:

 

Saturday 28th March


*7am - Woke up after only falling asleep at 4am (electrical current and skin crawling severe last night... wasn't able to sleep through it) .

 

*10am - Breakfast and glass of water. 

 

*10.30am - Huge wave of overwhelm and dispair due to body buzzing all over, and now skin crawling on top of that. Suicidal idealation. Want out of this hell.

 

*10.40am - Half a hydroxy b12 lozenge

 

*11am - Tried tapping with a practioner. Overwhelm and suicidality slightly reduced.

 

*12pm - Lunch and glass of water

 

*12.45pm - Another wave of dread and overwhelm. Feeling that I can't go on. Scared I'll take action to 'make this stop' because I see no way out of these sensations. I can't live with these. 

 

*1pm - Attempted to go for a walk. Stomach began aching and cramping after 2 minutes so turned and went home.

 

*2.30pm - Attempting to do some colouring in to distract. Tight band around head. Body still relentlessly buzzing deep inside. Skin still crawling. Move legs back and forward to try and distract. 

 

*4pm - Another wave of dread and despair. Tapped on myself again. Slight reduction. Moved back to distraction techniques (colouring). Trying to accept and float through buzzing.

 

*6pm - Dinner and a glass of water.

 

*6.45pm - Attempted another walk to help alleviate agitation and restlessness in legs. Managed to walk 30 minutes this time. First and only reprieve I've had with the discomfort in legs in weeks!! While walking, I couldn't feel the buzzing. As soon as I stopped walking, the buzzing returned.

 

*8pm - Had a shower and let water run on legs to try and alleviate buzzing. Only slightly helped. Put deep heat all over legs to see if the burning heat could distract from discomfort. Helped marginally for about 10 minutes. 

 

*8.30pm - Buzzing in brain and teeth intensified now. And gnawing deep in solar plexus started again. Overwhelm and dread.

 

*9pm- 30mg Mirtazapine then bed. Asleep by 10pm. 
 

@Shep @Altostratais it unusual to have had to break in the internal buzzing for 8 months? It started the week or so of the switch, and hasn't abated since. Not once. Zero windows. It's just getting worse. If it's withdrawal would I expect the buzzing to change from time to time, not just stay with me constantly and increasingly? I'm sure I'll find others peoples experiences on the forum, but it's not good for me to read through others experiences... it makes me more anxious and overwhelmed. Hence coming on here and just sticking you your advice. 


 

Aug 2004 - Dec 2006: Aropax ( 20mg - 30mg). Aug 2007: Fluoxetine (for 3 weeks).

Sept 07 - July 12: Lexapro ( 10mg - 20mg). Pooped out July 12. Titrated down off Lexapro over 3 weeks and switched to Paroxetine (with Xanax to cover switch for 2 weeks).

Aug 2012 - Aug 2019: Paroxetine (titrated up to 20mg in first few weeks,, dose reduced to 15mg . for 7 years until it 'pooped out'.

4th Aug 2019 - Reduced dose of paroxetine to 10mg (for 1 day) - under phychiatrists directions. Last dose of paroxetine.

5th Aug 2019 - Switch to 15mg Mirtazapine.

5th Aug - 15th Aug 2019 - 15mg Mirtazapine plus intermitent use of Lorazapm (0.25- 0.5 . Also used 12.5mg Quetiapine for 3 nights for sleep.

23rd Aug 2019 - Ended up in crisis team. Mirtazapine increased to 30mg. Diazapam 10mg twice daily.

30th Aug 2019 - Mirtazapine 30mg + Diazapam reduced to 7.5mg twice daily

6th Sept 2019 - Mirtazapine 30mg + Diazapam reduced to 5mg twice daily

13th Sept 2019 - Mirtazapine increased to 45mg. Diazapam increased back up to 10mg twice daily.

20th Sept - 29th Sept 2019: Mirtazapine 45mg. Diazapam being reduced from 10mg down to 0mg this week (in 2mg increments couple of days).

30th Sept - Thursday 3rd Oct 2019: Mirtazapine 45mg. WORST ANXIETY EVER. Akathisia. Couldn't stay still. Suicidal idealization.

Friday 4th October - present: Reduced from 45mg to 30mg (straight drop to alleviate akathisia - reduction definitely helped alot but still not gone completely)

 

 

, Vit B6, Curcumin, Magnesium (no adverse effects from adding these supplements - have helped akathisia somewhat).

* Everything done from 23rd August under care of outpatient crisis team management.

 

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Shep
16 hours ago, cathnz said:

I wasn't able to distract because when I lie still, I feel the sensations worse... I feel really restless. Moving around helps. But my husband and son were asleep so moving around wasn't an option. 

 

Thanks for the explanation, cath. 

 

Are you able to go to another room? Perhaps put on some headphones and listen to music or watch a TV show while you pace in place? 

 

16 hours ago, cathnz said:

Yes, I realise how lucky I usually am to get sleep. It is an absolute blessing. I don't fare well with little sleep (even for just one night)... I become extremely emotionally unstable. So I didn't want to risk consecutive days. 

 

Thankfully, last night I slept!! About 7 hours again. I'm so grateful!! I'd had a very very bad day, so sleep was such a welcolme reprieve. 

 

 

This is very good news. Hopefully as you travel through this journey, you'll learn that having a bad day or bad night doesn't mean anything more than you're having a wave that will pass. It's nothing to worry about. It will pass. 

 

16 hours ago, cathnz said:

*10.40am - Half a hydroxy b12 lozenge

 

Is this a new supplement?

 

Please be careful with B12, as many people find it stimulating during withdrawal. You may be better off getting your B12 through diet. Unless you're a vegan, it's possible to get this vitamin through your diet. Please see:

 

Vitamin B12: essential for mood, nervous system

 

As Alto notes, adding in B12 works best for people prior to a taper. But since you're already showing signs of a destabilized nervous system, you may hyper-react to it. 

 

Targeting your diet to include foods high in B12 may be best if you feel this supplement stimulating. 

 

16 hours ago, cathnz said:

 

@Shep @Altostratais it unusual to have had to break in the internal buzzing for 8 months? It started the week or so of the switch, and hasn't abated since. Not once. Zero windows. It's just getting worse. If it's withdrawal would I expect the buzzing to change from time to time, not just stay with me constantly and increasingly? I'm sure I'll find others peoples experiences on the forum, but it's not good for me to read through others experiences... it makes me more anxious and overwhelmed. Hence coming on here and just sticking you your advice. 

 

Buzzing may be your signature symptom. Some people have one or two symptoms that are chronic throughout withdrawal.

 

My signature symptom is dp/dr (depersonalization / derealization). Other people deal with pain and others with dizziness. 

 

So it's not unusual to have that one symptom that haunts your withdrawal journey. But that doesn't mean you won't heal from this symptom. 


Drug free May 22, 2015 after 30 years of neuroleptics, benzos, z-drugs, so-called "anti"-depressants, and amphetamines 

 

My Success Story:  Shep's Success: "Leaving Plato's Cave"

 

And what is good, Phaedrus, and what is not good — need we ask anyone to tell us these things? ~ Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

 

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cathnz

Thanks @Shep.

 

The B12 is something I had been taking because I have low B12 levels (as well as iron, folate, selenium, and Vit E). My levels came back low despite eating well prior. I had been taking it, along with other supps, then stopped for fear it was making me worse. But decided that low B12 could be making matters worse, so started it back up at a fraction of the dose. I'll see what else I can add in around the food. I didn't take the B12 yesterday. It doesn't make me feel any different whether I take it or not (will not at the time anyway... perhaps it has a knock on effect).

 

I've put yesterday's symptom diary below. I'm not sure if I should continue doing this... what do you think? In all honestly, it has highlighted no obvious patterns to me. Everything (symptoms) are always constantly there... there's just some times of day they're more intense. But that could even be because I've stopped to 'check in with myself' so it's more noticeable? I don't know. I don't know anything anymore. If I wasn't on the Mirtazapine, I'd 100% know for sure this was withdrawl, and could just let time heal. But I still have this constant niggling feeling that it might be the Mirtazapine. I've never been able to tolerate high doses of meds (I couldn't ever go higher than 15mg of paroxetine), so 30mg Mirtazapine may be too much for me (although I still had these sensations at 15mg Mirtazapine). So there's a constant nonstop battle in my head of "is this withdrawl or is this the Mirtazapine"... and obviously the way I deal with either scenario is very different... one is let time heal the other is I need to get off it. I'm actually torturing myself with this! I read another members journey (chickens) and feel very similar... and I see that for her, changing off the Mirtazapine is what she did and felt better. But everyone's story is different, I know. What worked for her may be hell for me. I wish I had a crystal ball... if I knew the cause 100% I could have a better plan going forward. If it was infact the Mirtazapine, I have no idea how to deal with that, as advice on here is how to taper off, not change. Ugh. So much confusion.I can't even fathom a taper while feeling this unstable. I also now have the fear of future tolerance wd and want to avoid that at all costs (especially given that its happened to me twice before). Those other times, I was happy to 'just switch meds', (as I knew no better). If it happened again I'd rather die than go through a switch like last time. So even though its still ingrained in me that "I need meds", I need to come off them to avoid tolerance wd again. Do you think it's worth getting the ball rolling now, and start withdrawing at like 1% or 2 % a month?? 

 

Anyway. Here's yesterdays dairy. It doesn't have as much info, as basically, it's the same as other days. Just not stop akathisia/paraesthesia. Overwhelm. Hopelessness. I feel like diarying this day after day is just reinforcing me dwelling on all this and non stop checking in. So do you think it might be ok to stop, unless anything changes, in which case I'll note it. @Altostrata?

 

Sun 29th March


*6am - Woke up with gnawing buzzing deep in chest. Electrical current running through me as usual. 

 

*8am - Had online EFT appointment and tapped with a practioner. Distress slightly reduced

 

*9.30am - Breakfast and a glass of water. Electric current running through me. Trying to breathe through the distress.

 

*12pm - Increase in the gnawing in solar plexus.

 

*12. 30pm - Lunch and glass of water

 

*3pm - Tinnitus and ear sensitivity increased. Body buzzing as per usual. 

 

*4pm - Went for walk to try and alleviate leg buzzing and discomfort. 

 

*6.30pm - Dinner and glass of water

 

*7.30pm - Wave of anxiety and intensity in leg buzzing. 

 

*8.30pm - Mirtazapine then bed. 

 

*9.30pm - Increase in genital buzzing, solar plexus gnawing, teeth buzzing, and burning in legs and muscles in upper back. Increased anxiety. Massive fear about being 'stuck' on meds forever. Terrified of being in tolerance withdrawl of Mirtazapine one day, and having to go through this all again. 


 


 

Aug 2004 - Dec 2006: Aropax ( 20mg - 30mg). Aug 2007: Fluoxetine (for 3 weeks).

Sept 07 - July 12: Lexapro ( 10mg - 20mg). Pooped out July 12. Titrated down off Lexapro over 3 weeks and switched to Paroxetine (with Xanax to cover switch for 2 weeks).

Aug 2012 - Aug 2019: Paroxetine (titrated up to 20mg in first few weeks,, dose reduced to 15mg . for 7 years until it 'pooped out'.

4th Aug 2019 - Reduced dose of paroxetine to 10mg (for 1 day) - under phychiatrists directions. Last dose of paroxetine.

5th Aug 2019 - Switch to 15mg Mirtazapine.

5th Aug - 15th Aug 2019 - 15mg Mirtazapine plus intermitent use of Lorazapm (0.25- 0.5 . Also used 12.5mg Quetiapine for 3 nights for sleep.

23rd Aug 2019 - Ended up in crisis team. Mirtazapine increased to 30mg. Diazapam 10mg twice daily.

30th Aug 2019 - Mirtazapine 30mg + Diazapam reduced to 7.5mg twice daily

6th Sept 2019 - Mirtazapine 30mg + Diazapam reduced to 5mg twice daily

13th Sept 2019 - Mirtazapine increased to 45mg. Diazapam increased back up to 10mg twice daily.

20th Sept - 29th Sept 2019: Mirtazapine 45mg. Diazapam being reduced from 10mg down to 0mg this week (in 2mg increments couple of days).

30th Sept - Thursday 3rd Oct 2019: Mirtazapine 45mg. WORST ANXIETY EVER. Akathisia. Couldn't stay still. Suicidal idealization.

Friday 4th October - present: Reduced from 45mg to 30mg (straight drop to alleviate akathisia - reduction definitely helped alot but still not gone completely)

 

 

, Vit B6, Curcumin, Magnesium (no adverse effects from adding these supplements - have helped akathisia somewhat).

* Everything done from 23rd August under care of outpatient crisis team management.

 

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Altostrata
On 3/28/2020 at 11:40 AM, cathnz said:

Attempted another walk to help alleviate agitation and restlessness in legs. Managed to walk 30 minutes this time. First and only reprieve I've had with the discomfort in legs in weeks!! While walking, I couldn't feel the buzzing. As soon as I stopped walking, the buzzing returned.

 

This is great! Do this more! Walk 30 minutes twice a day, even more. If you can, get out and walk every time the buzzing is annoying.

 

1 hour ago, cathnz said:

Increase in genital buzzing, solar plexus gnawing, teeth buzzing, and burning in legs and muscles in upper back.

 

Does this happen frequently after you take mirtazapine?


This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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cathnz

 @Altostrata

 

Does this happen frequently after you take mirtazapine?

 I usually time taking my mirtazapine just before I get into bed and am already tired and ready for sleep. If I time it right, I fall asleep soon after. But I have noticed on a couple of occasions, if I don't go to sleep, I really notice symptoms. I don't know if it's because they're worse at that point in time OR I just notice them more because I'm not distracted. 


 

Aug 2004 - Dec 2006: Aropax ( 20mg - 30mg). Aug 2007: Fluoxetine (for 3 weeks).

Sept 07 - July 12: Lexapro ( 10mg - 20mg). Pooped out July 12. Titrated down off Lexapro over 3 weeks and switched to Paroxetine (with Xanax to cover switch for 2 weeks).

Aug 2012 - Aug 2019: Paroxetine (titrated up to 20mg in first few weeks,, dose reduced to 15mg . for 7 years until it 'pooped out'.

4th Aug 2019 - Reduced dose of paroxetine to 10mg (for 1 day) - under phychiatrists directions. Last dose of paroxetine.

5th Aug 2019 - Switch to 15mg Mirtazapine.

5th Aug - 15th Aug 2019 - 15mg Mirtazapine plus intermitent use of Lorazapm (0.25- 0.5 . Also used 12.5mg Quetiapine for 3 nights for sleep.

23rd Aug 2019 - Ended up in crisis team. Mirtazapine increased to 30mg. Diazapam 10mg twice daily.

30th Aug 2019 - Mirtazapine 30mg + Diazapam reduced to 7.5mg twice daily

6th Sept 2019 - Mirtazapine 30mg + Diazapam reduced to 5mg twice daily

13th Sept 2019 - Mirtazapine increased to 45mg. Diazapam increased back up to 10mg twice daily.

20th Sept - 29th Sept 2019: Mirtazapine 45mg. Diazapam being reduced from 10mg down to 0mg this week (in 2mg increments couple of days).

30th Sept - Thursday 3rd Oct 2019: Mirtazapine 45mg. WORST ANXIETY EVER. Akathisia. Couldn't stay still. Suicidal idealization.

Friday 4th October - present: Reduced from 45mg to 30mg (straight drop to alleviate akathisia - reduction definitely helped alot but still not gone completely)

 

 

, Vit B6, Curcumin, Magnesium (no adverse effects from adding these supplements - have helped akathisia somewhat).

* Everything done from 23rd August under care of outpatient crisis team management.

 

Untitled document.docx

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Shep
13 hours ago, cathnz said:

Do you think it's worth getting the ball rolling now, and start withdrawing at like 1% or 2 % a month?? 

 

Since you've been holding since October, this is more than a reasonable way to test the waters on a taper. 

 

Please let us know how you do. 


Drug free May 22, 2015 after 30 years of neuroleptics, benzos, z-drugs, so-called "anti"-depressants, and amphetamines 

 

My Success Story:  Shep's Success: "Leaving Plato's Cave"

 

And what is good, Phaedrus, and what is not good — need we ask anyone to tell us these things? ~ Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

 

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Starboy17

I'm down to 1.6mg of mirtazapine, I've held this dose since 17th January 2020. Been on it since April 2016 so near 4years, tapering from 30mg.  I too had many sx on starting mirt, firstly i noticed burning in my right knee, and also after taking my nightly dose before bed.  The lights appeared to flicker.  Moronic Doctor and crisis "care" team, also clueless told me to continue to take it. I soon ditched them and found a Doctor willing to see me tapper off these pills of hell.

 

These people, despite their education and medical degrees have no credibility in knowing exactly how these meds will play out, its all speculative and usually they're wrong, so so so wrong that you could easily lose years just trying to have some semblance of normalcy. You will likely  go through some withdrawals, that's all they are, taper conservatively.   I've experienced pretty much all the symptoms you described and more. 

 

At times I can barely walk, my muscles in my back, arms, legs, shoulders, can feel stiff and incredibly sore. I feel so fatigued since i tapered from 1.65 to 1.6mg, its made life feel unbearable at times. My blood pressure was usually in the normal range 120/80 but now has been considerably lower, whereas previously after a couple weeks from a taper it would return to baseline but lately its been 100/60 and even lower. I had to see a cardiologist two years back as my heart rate was in the mid 30's whilst sleeping, awake it would sit round 54. He told me I had nothing to worry about. But this last drop has just floored me, now my heart rate can sit around the mid 40s   I'm almost 38 but this med has made me feel exponentially much older, like a 90yr old man riddled with arthritis. Before mirt I was reasonably healthy, i would take 6hr bush walks, swim or ride my bike,  now I'm lucky on a good day to walk 20min in one go.  I'm actually grieving the life I once had, I try not to think too far ahead as it can be counterproductive and makes me feel worse.

 

Its common to have an overwhelming sense of dread and fear.  These medications are far more potent than Doctors know, i suspect the pharmaceutical companies deliberately made them addicting, just to continue to make profits off the misery of us poor sods who ignorantly believed in the chemical imbalance theory, which is proven to be made up.  

 

I would highly suggest you begin tapering immediately.

 

 

 

 


Finasteride 1mg daily 2005 - April (approx) 2016 did have break from them.

Dex amphetamine 30mg Daily taken irregularly March 2012 - March 2015

Lexapro April 2016 only took 1 tablet unsure what mg ended up in emergency with thoughts of self harm discharged from hospital was given 20mg Valium and 30mg mirtazapine

30mg April 2016 - current been tapering from 30mg, 15mg May 2016, 7.5mg July 2016,Aug 2016 3.75mg Cold turkey Sept 2016 reinstated after 12dayslater 3.75mg Feb 2017 3.4mg March 2017 3.2mg April 2017 3mg

June 25, 2017 2.8mg August 14th 2017, 2.7mg, Sept 18, 2017 2.6mg Oct 26 up-dose 2.65mg due to 5 weeks of severe withdrawal 2.6mg 23rd Nov 2017 30th 2.5mg Nov 2017 2.4mg  19th Dec 2017  then forced 2.45mg up-dose 2.45mg due to severe withdrawals 2nd Jan 2018 up-dose  2.5mg 4th Jan 2018 withdrawals were too severe up-dose 2.55mg 23 Jan 2018  continued severe withdrawals near 3 weeks, 14th March 2018 2.5mg, 24th June 2018 2.45mg, 2.4mg 25th July 2018, 2.35mg 7th August 2018, 2.3mg 22nd October 2018, 2.25mg, 2.2mg 6th Dec 2018, 2.1mg 12 January 2019, 2mg 23rd Jan 2019, 1.95mg 12 March 2019, 1.9mg 12th March 2019, 1.85mg 22 June 2019, 1.8mg 19th July 2019, 1.75mg 16 Sep 2019, 1.7mg 4 October 2019, 1.75mg 5 October - severe withdrawals, need to complete essays. 1.7mg 11th November 2019, 1.65mg 2019 Had horrific nightmare up-dose  to 1.7mg on 18th December 2019, 24th December 2019 1.65mg, 17th January 2020 1.6mg-long hold due to ongoing severe withdrawals, low blood pressure, what appears to be chronic fatigue, depression, anxiety. 15th May 2020 1.58mg, 3rd August 2020 1.56mg, 2nd September 2020 1.54mg, 28th September 2020 1.52mg experienced nightmare, along with severe withdrawals, air hunger & high anxiety, due to exams will temporarily up-dose on 30th September 2020 1.54mg

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cathnz
On 4/2/2020 at 9:26 PM, Starboy17 said:

I'm down to 1.6mg of mirtazapine, I've held this dose since 17th January 2020. Been on it since April 2016 so near 4years, tapering from 30mg.  I too had many sx on starting mirt, firstly i noticed burning in my right knee, and also after taking my nightly dose before bed.  The lights appeared to flicker.  Moronic Doctor and crisis "care" team, also clueless told me to continue to take it. I soon ditched them and found a Doctor willing to see me tapper off these pills of hell.

 

These people, despite their education and medical degrees have no credibility in knowing exactly how these meds will play out, its all speculative and usually they're wrong, so so so wrong that you could easily lose years just trying to have some semblance of normalcy. You will likely  go through some withdrawals, that's all they are, taper conservatively.   I've experienced pretty much all the symptoms you described and more. 

 

At times I can barely walk, my muscles in my back, arms, legs, shoulders, can feel stiff and incredibly sore. I feel so fatigued since i tapered from 1.65 to 1.6mg, its made life feel unbearable at times. My blood pressure was usually in the normal range 120/80 but now has been considerably lower, whereas previously after a couple weeks from a taper it would return to baseline but lately its been 100/60 and even lower. I had to see a cardiologist two years back as my heart rate was in the mid 30's whilst sleeping, awake it would sit round 54. He told me I had nothing to worry about. But this last drop has just floored me, now my heart rate can sit around the mid 40s   I'm almost 38 but this med has made me feel exponentially much older, like a 90yr old man riddled with arthritis. Before mirt I was reasonably healthy, i would take 6hr bush walks, swim or ride my bike,  now I'm lucky on a good day to walk 20min in one go.  I'm actually grieving the life I once had, I try not to think too far ahead as it can be counterproductive and makes me feel worse.

 

Its common to have an overwhelming sense of dread and fear.  These medications are far more potent than Doctors know, i suspect the pharmaceutical companies deliberately made them addicting, just to continue to make profits off the misery of us poor sods who ignorantly believed in the chemical imbalance theory, which is proven to be made up.  

 

I would highly suggest you begin tapering immediately.

 

 

 

 

Thanks @Starboy17

 

I'm sorry you've had this journey. It terrifies me no end 😭


 

Aug 2004 - Dec 2006: Aropax ( 20mg - 30mg). Aug 2007: Fluoxetine (for 3 weeks).

Sept 07 - July 12: Lexapro ( 10mg - 20mg). Pooped out July 12. Titrated down off Lexapro over 3 weeks and switched to Paroxetine (with Xanax to cover switch for 2 weeks).

Aug 2012 - Aug 2019: Paroxetine (titrated up to 20mg in first few weeks,, dose reduced to 15mg . for 7 years until it 'pooped out'.

4th Aug 2019 - Reduced dose of paroxetine to 10mg (for 1 day) - under phychiatrists directions. Last dose of paroxetine.

5th Aug 2019 - Switch to 15mg Mirtazapine.

5th Aug - 15th Aug 2019 - 15mg Mirtazapine plus intermitent use of Lorazapm (0.25- 0.5 . Also used 12.5mg Quetiapine for 3 nights for sleep.

23rd Aug 2019 - Ended up in crisis team. Mirtazapine increased to 30mg. Diazapam 10mg twice daily.

30th Aug 2019 - Mirtazapine 30mg + Diazapam reduced to 7.5mg twice daily

6th Sept 2019 - Mirtazapine 30mg + Diazapam reduced to 5mg twice daily

13th Sept 2019 - Mirtazapine increased to 45mg. Diazapam increased back up to 10mg twice daily.

20th Sept - 29th Sept 2019: Mirtazapine 45mg. Diazapam being reduced from 10mg down to 0mg this week (in 2mg increments couple of days).

30th Sept - Thursday 3rd Oct 2019: Mirtazapine 45mg. WORST ANXIETY EVER. Akathisia. Couldn't stay still. Suicidal idealization.

Friday 4th October - present: Reduced from 45mg to 30mg (straight drop to alleviate akathisia - reduction definitely helped alot but still not gone completely)

 

 

, Vit B6, Curcumin, Magnesium (no adverse effects from adding these supplements - have helped akathisia somewhat).

* Everything done from 23rd August under care of outpatient crisis team management.

 

Untitled document.docx

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cathnz
On 3/30/2020 at 9:51 PM, Shep said:

 

Since you've been holding since October, this is more than a reasonable way to test the waters on a taper. 

 

Please let us know how you do. 

 

 

@Shep thank you.

 

I've stubbornly kept holding because I've felt so incredibly unwell that I've been too terrified of tapering and destabilising even further. I don't think I could handle things getting worse. I'm already suicidal as it is 😭 All my symptoms as per my previous daily symptoms log have continued, but are getting worse by the day. I don't know if they are actually worse, or if being in lockdown has meant I have no distraction from them and they're all I can notice. I've been suicidal. I wrote last year that at 45mg I had the worst anxiety ever... wrong... I'm now at that same level every day. I'm torturing myself not knowing if I should hold because it's wd or taper because it's Mirtazapine. 

Its been nearly 9 months since my switch to Mirtazapine (so abrupt cessation of paxil) and nearly 7 months since Diazapam. I can't understand why I'm getting worse over time. I have been holding steady, dosing at same time, not eating sugar or gluten, have taken no supps in about 6 weeks. There has been absolutely zero moments where I haven't had the buzzing this entire time. But I fear even tapering slowly won't help because I had the buzzing at 15mg. What do I do??? Please help, I don't know what to do. 

What if I taper and it is wd and I get even worse. I won't survive. I'm so so scared 😭


 

Aug 2004 - Dec 2006: Aropax ( 20mg - 30mg). Aug 2007: Fluoxetine (for 3 weeks).

Sept 07 - July 12: Lexapro ( 10mg - 20mg). Pooped out July 12. Titrated down off Lexapro over 3 weeks and switched to Paroxetine (with Xanax to cover switch for 2 weeks).

Aug 2012 - Aug 2019: Paroxetine (titrated up to 20mg in first few weeks,, dose reduced to 15mg . for 7 years until it 'pooped out'.

4th Aug 2019 - Reduced dose of paroxetine to 10mg (for 1 day) - under phychiatrists directions. Last dose of paroxetine.

5th Aug 2019 - Switch to 15mg Mirtazapine.

5th Aug - 15th Aug 2019 - 15mg Mirtazapine plus intermitent use of Lorazapm (0.25- 0.5 . Also used 12.5mg Quetiapine for 3 nights for sleep.

23rd Aug 2019 - Ended up in crisis team. Mirtazapine increased to 30mg. Diazapam 10mg twice daily.

30th Aug 2019 - Mirtazapine 30mg + Diazapam reduced to 7.5mg twice daily

6th Sept 2019 - Mirtazapine 30mg + Diazapam reduced to 5mg twice daily

13th Sept 2019 - Mirtazapine increased to 45mg. Diazapam increased back up to 10mg twice daily.

20th Sept - 29th Sept 2019: Mirtazapine 45mg. Diazapam being reduced from 10mg down to 0mg this week (in 2mg increments couple of days).

30th Sept - Thursday 3rd Oct 2019: Mirtazapine 45mg. WORST ANXIETY EVER. Akathisia. Couldn't stay still. Suicidal idealization.

Friday 4th October - present: Reduced from 45mg to 30mg (straight drop to alleviate akathisia - reduction definitely helped alot but still not gone completely)

 

 

, Vit B6, Curcumin, Magnesium (no adverse effects from adding these supplements - have helped akathisia somewhat).

* Everything done from 23rd August under care of outpatient crisis team management.

 

Untitled document.docx

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Altostrata

As discussed previously, it is likely your problems are due to benzodiazepine and Paxil withdrawal syndrome rather than mirtazapine.

 

On 3/25/2020 at 2:39 PM, Altostrata said:

....

My guess is you are suffering from benzo withdrawal along with Paxil withdrawal. Taking a little bit of diazepam, perhaps 05.mg twice a day, may help. You can taper off by tiny amounts later.

 

Taking a little diazepam may enable you to reduce mirtazapine, but I do not think mirtazapine is causing your symptoms, though it is helping you sleep.

 

On 3/26/2020 at 11:30 AM, Altostrata said:

....

@Shep's advice is good. You are in a bind. Paroxetine is an extraordinarily difficult drug to come off and you are showing signs of activation.

 

Ordinarily, we might suggest reinstatement of a very small amount of fluoxetine to substitute for Paxil, but it's possible it will make the activation worse. You can hold on as best you can and allow your nervous system to settle down. You will have to be very patient and practice self-soothing.

 

On the other hand, a very small amount of diazepam might help resolve a combination of benzo and Paxil withdrawal. Do you have any diazepam left?

 

I have been told by a leading psychiatrist that psychiatrists perceive current events as an anxiety emergency and are being more lenient in prescribing anti-anxiety drugs for the time being.

 

If you need to decrease mirtazapine, you can use a liquid. This does not need a lot of equipment.

 


This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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cathnz
4 hours ago, Altostrata said:

As discussed previously, it is likely your problems are due to benzodiazepine and Paxil withdrawal syndrome rather than mirtazapine.

 

 

 

Thanks @Altostrata

 

I've been hanging in there re the withdrawal, but when things keep getting worse for no reason (haven't changed ANYTHING) it just freaked me out. I can't understand why things are consistently getting worse. That's why I freaked. I'm sorry 😔


 

Aug 2004 - Dec 2006: Aropax ( 20mg - 30mg). Aug 2007: Fluoxetine (for 3 weeks).

Sept 07 - July 12: Lexapro ( 10mg - 20mg). Pooped out July 12. Titrated down off Lexapro over 3 weeks and switched to Paroxetine (with Xanax to cover switch for 2 weeks).

Aug 2012 - Aug 2019: Paroxetine (titrated up to 20mg in first few weeks,, dose reduced to 15mg . for 7 years until it 'pooped out'.

4th Aug 2019 - Reduced dose of paroxetine to 10mg (for 1 day) - under phychiatrists directions. Last dose of paroxetine.

5th Aug 2019 - Switch to 15mg Mirtazapine.

5th Aug - 15th Aug 2019 - 15mg Mirtazapine plus intermitent use of Lorazapm (0.25- 0.5 . Also used 12.5mg Quetiapine for 3 nights for sleep.

23rd Aug 2019 - Ended up in crisis team. Mirtazapine increased to 30mg. Diazapam 10mg twice daily.

30th Aug 2019 - Mirtazapine 30mg + Diazapam reduced to 7.5mg twice daily

6th Sept 2019 - Mirtazapine 30mg + Diazapam reduced to 5mg twice daily

13th Sept 2019 - Mirtazapine increased to 45mg. Diazapam increased back up to 10mg twice daily.

20th Sept - 29th Sept 2019: Mirtazapine 45mg. Diazapam being reduced from 10mg down to 0mg this week (in 2mg increments couple of days).

30th Sept - Thursday 3rd Oct 2019: Mirtazapine 45mg. WORST ANXIETY EVER. Akathisia. Couldn't stay still. Suicidal idealization.

Friday 4th October - present: Reduced from 45mg to 30mg (straight drop to alleviate akathisia - reduction definitely helped alot but still not gone completely)

 

 

, Vit B6, Curcumin, Magnesium (no adverse effects from adding these supplements - have helped akathisia somewhat).

* Everything done from 23rd August under care of outpatient crisis team management.

 

Untitled document.docx

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Shep
15 hours ago, cathnz said:

I don't know if they are actually worse, or if being in lockdown has meant I have no distraction from them and they're all I can notice.

 

9 hours ago, cathnz said:

I've been hanging in there re the withdrawal, but when things keep getting worse for no reason (haven't changed ANYTHING) it just freaked me out. I can't understand why things are consistently getting worse.

 

Cath, there IS a reason. As you wisely noted, being in lockdown can make things worse.

 

Please find some distractions in your home. Many people are housebound during withdrawal due to severe symptoms, but they are able to find distractions in movies (Netflix is a great low-cost idea during withdrawal and during the lockdown), working puzzles, doing art, practicing breathing exercises, learning a new hobby, etc. - these are all things to do during this time. 

 

Just remember - the pandemic, just like withdrawal, is temporary. Please find some healthy things to do to distract. Maybe learn a new non-drug coping skill to add to your daily routine. There are many to choose from. 

 

Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms

 

Also, if you're dealing with financial issues due to the pandemic, that can also ramp up symptoms. But that list of non-drug coping skills has a lot of links to free resources on this site and on other sites. Lots of great stuff to fill up your time. 


Drug free May 22, 2015 after 30 years of neuroleptics, benzos, z-drugs, so-called "anti"-depressants, and amphetamines 

 

My Success Story:  Shep's Success: "Leaving Plato's Cave"

 

And what is good, Phaedrus, and what is not good — need we ask anyone to tell us these things? ~ Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

 

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cathnz
On 4/23/2020 at 11:25 PM, Shep said:

 

 

Cath, there IS a reason. As you wisely noted, being in lockdown can make things worse.

 

Please find some distractions in your home. Many people are housebound during withdrawal due to severe symptoms, but they are able to find distractions in movies (Netflix is a great low-cost idea during withdrawal and during the lockdown), working puzzles, doing art, practicing breathing exercises, learning a new hobby, etc. - these are all things to do during this time. 

 

Just remember - the pandemic, just like withdrawal, is temporary. Please find some healthy things to do to distract. Maybe learn a new non-drug coping skill to add to your daily routine. There are many to choose from. 

 

Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms

 

Also, if you're dealing with financial issues due to the pandemic, that can also ramp up symptoms. But that list of non-drug coping skills has a lot of links to free resources on this site and on other sites. Lots of great stuff to fill up your time. 

Thanks @Shep

 

It's very strange but the pandemic itself is not affecting me at all. I live in NZ and we have it pretty well contained. We've been safe at home for a month and I barely think about the virus. I do keep busy at home, but the one problem is that nothing I do (tv, puzzles and otherwise) has been enough to distract me from the akathisia. I find myself more and more on this page, trying to find ways to help myself. I stumbled across an article written by Dr Shipko and can't tell you how deflated I feel about the possibility of this being permanent. There was mention of another article he wrote, retracting his stance but I haven't been able to find it. 

I'm trying to remain calm and practise acceptance and non resistance, but as each day passes and the akathisia gets worse, I'm terrified where this will end up. Its been 9 months since my switch. 7 months since any dose changes or benzos. My body is screaming louder and louder at me 😭 Is this 'normal' i. e getting worse this far out? 


 

Aug 2004 - Dec 2006: Aropax ( 20mg - 30mg). Aug 2007: Fluoxetine (for 3 weeks).

Sept 07 - July 12: Lexapro ( 10mg - 20mg). Pooped out July 12. Titrated down off Lexapro over 3 weeks and switched to Paroxetine (with Xanax to cover switch for 2 weeks).

Aug 2012 - Aug 2019: Paroxetine (titrated up to 20mg in first few weeks,, dose reduced to 15mg . for 7 years until it 'pooped out'.

4th Aug 2019 - Reduced dose of paroxetine to 10mg (for 1 day) - under phychiatrists directions. Last dose of paroxetine.

5th Aug 2019 - Switch to 15mg Mirtazapine.

5th Aug - 15th Aug 2019 - 15mg Mirtazapine plus intermitent use of Lorazapm (0.25- 0.5 . Also used 12.5mg Quetiapine for 3 nights for sleep.

23rd Aug 2019 - Ended up in crisis team. Mirtazapine increased to 30mg. Diazapam 10mg twice daily.

30th Aug 2019 - Mirtazapine 30mg + Diazapam reduced to 7.5mg twice daily

6th Sept 2019 - Mirtazapine 30mg + Diazapam reduced to 5mg twice daily

13th Sept 2019 - Mirtazapine increased to 45mg. Diazapam increased back up to 10mg twice daily.

20th Sept - 29th Sept 2019: Mirtazapine 45mg. Diazapam being reduced from 10mg down to 0mg this week (in 2mg increments couple of days).

30th Sept - Thursday 3rd Oct 2019: Mirtazapine 45mg. WORST ANXIETY EVER. Akathisia. Couldn't stay still. Suicidal idealization.

Friday 4th October - present: Reduced from 45mg to 30mg (straight drop to alleviate akathisia - reduction definitely helped alot but still not gone completely)

 

 

, Vit B6, Curcumin, Magnesium (no adverse effects from adding these supplements - have helped akathisia somewhat).

* Everything done from 23rd August under care of outpatient crisis team management.

 

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sunnysideup69

Hi @cathnz, nice to meet you.

I noticed you did a drug switch around the same time as me. A 'cold switch', as well. Which means you'll still be recovering from that.....I've learned that they can be a bit harsh, to say the least.

I'm in a similar situ in that I'm still also recovering from a cold switch and lots of upping and downing before that......before I knew better ;) 

How do you feel about taking a tiny bit of diazepam, as Alto suggested above? It may well help, plus Shep's suggestions about activities. I've made a list of things around the house plus creative activities I would ordinarily want to do, even if I don't feel like them right now. I've also joined some online classes, even if I don't feel like doing them. 

Can you Skype friends or make whatsapp calls to them? I think being able to help self regulate by seeing other people's faces, having eye contact, is also really important. 

 

If you're doing all of this already, apologies....just sharing some things that have helped me, as I live alone and am experiencing an increase in anxiety some days.

Waving at you from London :) 


January 2008 to April 2015 Citalopram 20mg to 5mg, reducing in 50 per cent leaps. Jumped off at 5mg

March 2016 used MDMA triggered setback

April 2016 Citalopram 10mg October 2016 cut to 5mg, May 2017 cut to 2.5mg

May 2018 used MDMA triggered setback

June 2018 Citalopram 2.5mg up to 10mg, then back to 5mg

July/ August 2018 7.5mg, then 10mg

June 2019 updosed to 20mg Citalopram

August 2019 cold switch to Venlafaxine 75mg XR

 

 

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cathnz
40 minutes ago, sunnysideup69 said:

Hi @cathnz, nice to meet you.

I noticed you did a drug switch around the same time as me. A 'cold switch', as well. Which means you'll still be recovering from that.....I've learned that they can be a bit harsh, to say the least.

I'm in a similar situ in that I'm still also recovering from a cold switch and lots of upping and downing before that......before I knew better ;) 

How do you feel about taking a tiny bit of diazepam, as Alto suggested above? It may well help, plus Shep's suggestions about activities. I've made a list of things around the house plus creative activities I would ordinarily want to do, even if I don't feel like them right now. I've also joined some online classes, even if I don't feel like doing them. 

Can you Skype friends or make whatsapp calls to them? I think being able to help self regulate by seeing other people's faces, having eye contact, is also really important. 

 

If you're doing all of this already, apologies....just sharing some things that have helped me, as I live alone and am experiencing an increase in anxiety some days.

Waving at you from London :) 

Hi @Sunnysideup, thanks so much for messaging I really appreciate it. Those are all great suggestions, and believe it or not, ones I am doing most days. I tend to be able to 'distract' for a while then come crashing down in exasperation usually due to my akathisia. But I get up, dust off, and go again.

I did think about a micro benzo dose, but did get confused, because it was suggested, but then also suggested to try and avoid it if possible. So I got seriously confused. And kind of froze like a deer in the headlights! Lol

So I'm stuck here not really knowing what to do! 

Sorry you've had the same experience. It sucks 😢

 

I see you got akathisia on one of your updoses. Did it go away when you reduced back down? And when you increased dose slowly again, did it come back up? The akathisia is what's a killer for me. Without it I feel like I'd be stronger. 

 

Do you find the meditation helpful? I'm just starting to get into listening to Joe Dispenza. 


 

Aug 2004 - Dec 2006: Aropax ( 20mg - 30mg). Aug 2007: Fluoxetine (for 3 weeks).

Sept 07 - July 12: Lexapro ( 10mg - 20mg). Pooped out July 12. Titrated down off Lexapro over 3 weeks and switched to Paroxetine (with Xanax to cover switch for 2 weeks).

Aug 2012 - Aug 2019: Paroxetine (titrated up to 20mg in first few weeks,, dose reduced to 15mg . for 7 years until it 'pooped out'.

4th Aug 2019 - Reduced dose of paroxetine to 10mg (for 1 day) - under phychiatrists directions. Last dose of paroxetine.

5th Aug 2019 - Switch to 15mg Mirtazapine.

5th Aug - 15th Aug 2019 - 15mg Mirtazapine plus intermitent use of Lorazapm (0.25- 0.5 . Also used 12.5mg Quetiapine for 3 nights for sleep.

23rd Aug 2019 - Ended up in crisis team. Mirtazapine increased to 30mg. Diazapam 10mg twice daily.

30th Aug 2019 - Mirtazapine 30mg + Diazapam reduced to 7.5mg twice daily

6th Sept 2019 - Mirtazapine 30mg + Diazapam reduced to 5mg twice daily

13th Sept 2019 - Mirtazapine increased to 45mg. Diazapam increased back up to 10mg twice daily.

20th Sept - 29th Sept 2019: Mirtazapine 45mg. Diazapam being reduced from 10mg down to 0mg this week (in 2mg increments couple of days).

30th Sept - Thursday 3rd Oct 2019: Mirtazapine 45mg. WORST ANXIETY EVER. Akathisia. Couldn't stay still. Suicidal idealization.

Friday 4th October - present: Reduced from 45mg to 30mg (straight drop to alleviate akathisia - reduction definitely helped alot but still not gone completely)

 

 

, Vit B6, Curcumin, Magnesium (no adverse effects from adding these supplements - have helped akathisia somewhat).

* Everything done from 23rd August under care of outpatient crisis team management.

 

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Wania

Is Your akathisia severe? Im struggling grately with it.


12.2017-02.2018 Mirtazapine - started adverse reactions after 2 months use and stopped without problems

04.2018 Amitryptyline 25mg

07.2019 Stopping Amitryptyline and starting Escitalopram10 mg, stopping after a week and coming back to Amitryptyline

01.2020 starting Amitryptyline withdrawal, after a month of too fast tapper (from 25mg to 10mg) developed migraines, didnt connect the dots. 

02.2020 went to ER with migraine, got IV torecan and developed severe akathisia (severe restless feeling throughout the body, panic, constant fear) and landed in psych ward. Was 4 days on benzos, they started Duoleksetine but after 3 days shaking that it caused wasnt improving so I asked to stop. They stopped and upped Amitryptyline to 30mg

03.2020 coming home and started Amitryptyline withdrawal again. I wasnt aware of need of slow tappering, psych alway told me to cut in half for few days. Decided to do it slowe then she recommended, but it was still too fast.Cut to 20mg when got home (so was on 30mg just a week). 

04.2020 Cut to 15mg. Felt amazing for a week, then cut to 13,5mg. Felt amazing another week. Cut to 12mg. After a week developed migraines again. Then connected dots that they are withdrawal migraines. Tried to up my doze again cause migraines were severe. Took 15 mg and got adverse reaction, akathisia came back, had jerking brain zaps all night long, didnt sleep. So next day took 12 mg again.

Since then (25.04.2020) Im on 12mg again. Im on 12mg since 14.04 total but was one updoze in the meantime that made me worse.

26.04.2020 added propranolol cause akathisia was too severe 10mg 2 times a day

08.05 still on 12mg amitryptyline, upped propranolol to 10mg 3 times a day cause yesterday akatisia hit out of nowhere very svere, wanted to got o hospital afraid of my life

 

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cathnz

@Shep @Altostrata @Sassenach @brassmonkey  I hope you don't mind that I've tagged you, but you've all helped me at some point and I'm really hoping your vast experience might be able to shed some light.

 

I'm now been exactly a year since it became apparent my paxil had pooped out. 10 months since they did a straight switch from paxil to Mirtazapine (no cross taper). 8 months since ANY changes to any meds were made (this includes updoses, adding benzos for 5 weeks then them stopping them). 10 months on this hell ride, and here I am, progressively getting worse. I haven't taken any supplements in many many months, I don't drink coffee or alcohol, I eat a clean wholefood based diet, get gentle excersize, sleep relatively ok, and I've been practising mindfulness and acceptance with my therapist, and doing positive mindset meditations. I haven't had any additional stress on recent months (my mother does have altzheimers and my son has anxiety, not both of these stressors have been present for a year or more and haven't gotten any worse). The covid situation hasn't stressed me as my country has eradicated it (zero cases for about 2 weeks) and my job is safe as I work for the government. Initially being in lockdown due to covid was hard as I didn't have the distraction of work, but then I embraced it because I was able to work harder on my self care. I'm back at work now, and it's not at all stressful and at least keeps me busy. 

Now despite ALL of this, my symptoms, especially akathisia, are getting increasingly worse. The internal buzzing I've had for the last 10 months, is now incredibly uncomfortable in my legs. While I'm not pacing all the time, the desire to is becoming harder and harder to resist... the discomfort, buzzing and knawing feeling deep in my legs is getting more and more. Its getting harder to 'distract' and not want to move my legs and climb out of my skin. I'm also suffering increasingly from my head burning all over. 

So my questions... 

 

*Have you come across this happening before (i. e symptoms worsening over time with no apparent triggers)? I have been going off the premise (as per your advice) that this is most likely wd and telling myself that with time and gentle self care things will improve. It is incredibly disheartening that they're getting worse. Have you ever seen anyone in wd with symptoms getting worse not better, but that still managed to get better eventually, or could this be a case that it will progressively just get worse? 😭 I can't even say this is a wave... as I've had no windows at all when these symptoms haven't been present in 10 months 😭 

 

*Which brings me back to the question... could this actually be caused by the 'new' med Mirtazapine (it began happening within 3 weeks after the switch). Seeing as things are getting worse, not better, with time, could this be the Mirtazapine building up and making me sicker? If so, how on earth will I face a taper when I'm already so unstable?? My depression and anxiety is the most severe its been in 17 years - its on par with how bad I was before I was ever put on meds (the severity of which lead me to meds in the first place). If it IS the Mirtazapine causing the akathisia, if I continuing holding to let my cns settle more before tapering, can staying on the offending med increase the chances of this being permanent? 

 

I know I've asked some of these questions months ago, but given time has moved on, I've done all the 'right' things, but things are getting worse, I'm wondering what the heck I should do - do I just continuing holding and waiting to stabilise, or do I need to begin a taper off Mirtazapine (or switch to something else... although I'm running out of options of things I haven't tried over the years)? Staying alive is a daily struggle that is wearing me down the longer and more intensly this goes on. 

 

I really appreciate your time. I'm trying so hard to be patient and believe that  healing will happen, but as I'm deteriorating that's becoming harder and harder to believe. I need to stay alive. For my husband and son. 


 

Aug 2004 - Dec 2006: Aropax ( 20mg - 30mg). Aug 2007: Fluoxetine (for 3 weeks).

Sept 07 - July 12: Lexapro ( 10mg - 20mg). Pooped out July 12. Titrated down off Lexapro over 3 weeks and switched to Paroxetine (with Xanax to cover switch for 2 weeks).

Aug 2012 - Aug 2019: Paroxetine (titrated up to 20mg in first few weeks,, dose reduced to 15mg . for 7 years until it 'pooped out'.

4th Aug 2019 - Reduced dose of paroxetine to 10mg (for 1 day) - under phychiatrists directions. Last dose of paroxetine.

5th Aug 2019 - Switch to 15mg Mirtazapine.

5th Aug - 15th Aug 2019 - 15mg Mirtazapine plus intermitent use of Lorazapm (0.25- 0.5 . Also used 12.5mg Quetiapine for 3 nights for sleep.

23rd Aug 2019 - Ended up in crisis team. Mirtazapine increased to 30mg. Diazapam 10mg twice daily.

30th Aug 2019 - Mirtazapine 30mg + Diazapam reduced to 7.5mg twice daily

6th Sept 2019 - Mirtazapine 30mg + Diazapam reduced to 5mg twice daily

13th Sept 2019 - Mirtazapine increased to 45mg. Diazapam increased back up to 10mg twice daily.

20th Sept - 29th Sept 2019: Mirtazapine 45mg. Diazapam being reduced from 10mg down to 0mg this week (in 2mg increments couple of days).

30th Sept - Thursday 3rd Oct 2019: Mirtazapine 45mg. WORST ANXIETY EVER. Akathisia. Couldn't stay still. Suicidal idealization.

Friday 4th October - present: Reduced from 45mg to 30mg (straight drop to alleviate akathisia - reduction definitely helped alot but still not gone completely)

 

 

, Vit B6, Curcumin, Magnesium (no adverse effects from adding these supplements - have helped akathisia somewhat).

* Everything done from 23rd August under care of outpatient crisis team management.

 

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sunnysideup69
On 5/2/2020 at 8:53 AM, cathnz said:

I see you got akathisia on one of your updoses. Did it go away when you reduced back down? And when you increased dose slowly again, did it come back up? The akathisia is what's a killer for me. Without it I feel like I'd be stronger. 

 

Do you find the meditation helpful? I'm just starting to get into listening to Joe Dispenza. 

 

Hi @cathnz, somehow, I missed this, sorry. Re. the constant need to move......yes, it happened when I did an updose from 2.5mg Cit to 10mg....a huge leap. It was horrible! GP then asked me to reduce back down to 5mg and it stopped on so doing.

 

I definitely find meditation helpful. Helps me in daily life with slower breathing and also with batting off unwanted, intrusive thoughts....they're just thoughts. Don't do anything complicated for meditation, just breathing in and out and observing the breath.

 


January 2008 to April 2015 Citalopram 20mg to 5mg, reducing in 50 per cent leaps. Jumped off at 5mg

March 2016 used MDMA triggered setback

April 2016 Citalopram 10mg October 2016 cut to 5mg, May 2017 cut to 2.5mg

May 2018 used MDMA triggered setback

June 2018 Citalopram 2.5mg up to 10mg, then back to 5mg

July/ August 2018 7.5mg, then 10mg

June 2019 updosed to 20mg Citalopram

August 2019 cold switch to Venlafaxine 75mg XR

 

 

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Altostrata

Are your symptoms better or worse at any particular times of day? Are you taking any other drugs? Have you made changes in any drugs recently?

 

Please keep daily notes of times of day you take your drugs, their dosages, and your symptoms throughout the day. Post 24 hours of notes at a time in this topic, in a simple list format with time of day on the left and notation (symptom or drug and dosage) on the right.


This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

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