Avrgejane: Amitriptyline withdrawal and switching to cipralex?

[Altostrata]

Dark glasses for you, maybe even indoors.

[Sassenach]

1 minute ago, Avrgejane said:

I just want to heal naturally but sometimes lose faith that I can.

You can, you will and naturally is the best way.

[Avrgejane]

I caved. After only about an hour sleep the night before I tried everything and was so nervous going to bed than last night at 11:30 I took half of a gravol. Do you think I screwed everything up? I did sleep - not ideally - but I did have about 5 hours. 

[Sassenach]

Hi Jane

 

Did you take both Gravol and Melotonin?

Neither of the above are Benzos which can be a real issue.

For the moment if it helps you sleep then it can only be good.

The important thing is keep taking the same dose every night at the same time for sleep hygiene as we discussed.

 

3 hours ago, Avrgejane said:

Do you think I screwed everything up

 

No you did not.

 

Sass

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Avrgejane]

Hi @Sassenach,

 

Thanks again for replying. Yes, I did take with both the melatonin and the gravol. The gravol was half, so only 25mg and I did take a larger dose of the melatonin as per my naturopath. She said to take 6mg. I think for tonight I’ll try and go down to 3mg and without the gravol to start and see where I get to. I really wanted to try this as natural as possible, but when I was literally only having about 50 minutes of sleep then that becomes a serious issue. 

 

Gravol isn’t addictive is it? And definitely no benzos. I will not touch those at all. Not anymore. I just don’t want to hinder my progress or become dependent on something. 

 

I have also used benedryl in the part for sleep too, but I read somewhere that they are kind of like an SRI? I don’t know - my info could be wrong. My pharmacy said it has SRI like properties (whatever that means) and described it like “antidepressants are like a Maserati in a 30 zone going full speed, and benedryl or gravol is like a Honda doing the speed limit”. Like I mentioned, I certainly don’t want to become dependent on something, especially when correcting my sleep cycle and healing. 

 

Absolutely taking the sleep hygiene very seriously. I’m in bed by 11/11:30, I’ll read on my kindle until about 1/2 hour before bed then I listen to some really soft music with the lights out. Up at 8:20am. I think maybe being back to work this week (thank god I can work from home) will also help establish the regular schedule again. 

 

Have you heard of people taking the Dramamine/gravol or benedryl to assist in recovery? 

 

Many many thanks and appreciation for all of your help and guidance through all of this. It’s scary....

 

AJ

[Sassenach]

I would suggest you take exactly the same as last night and keep a sleep diary.

If you keep changing we will not know what works.

The reason we suggest Melotonin is because your body produces it naturally to help with sleep.

We can look at only using Melotonin but for the moment keep everything the same as last night.

Hopefully you will have better sleep again and that alone can make  a big difference.

 

Sass

[Altostrata]

Gravol or dramamine is not a problem, but it may stop working. How are you doing now?

[Avrgejane]

Hi @Altostrata,

 

I’ve been really focusing on healing. I’m working with a wonderful program right now to help me with coping and trauma while I’m still experiencing symptoms. I am showing small, slow improvements week by week so I am hopeful! Moving forward is so important for me. I need to keep moving forward. xo

[Altostrata]

Hi, Av. I moved your post here. Good to hear you're seeing small improvements. What about your symptom pattern has changed?

[Avrgejane]

I find that some symptoms have become less in intensity. The derealization is a bit less and so is the depersonalization. I am still very dizzy and spacey, still having issues with my memory and also have very sensitive hearing and ringing in my ears. Insomnia is still there but I am trying some natural remedies. I also have very transient nausea every once in a while. I’m doing a lot of positive self talk basically telling myself I am seeing improvement so that means I am healing! It’s not “there” yet but it’s moving so that’s positive right? It’s been 34 days since I stopped the meds on the QT. I’m also doing some neuroplasticity work and have started doing DNRS. My brain is rewiring and healing. My lesson is to be patient and to be positive with the little successes. 

 

What do you think? 

[Altostrata]

We expect withdrawal symptoms to come in The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization with very slow improvement. Please take care of yourself, avoid stress, and do what you can to support the natural process.

[India]

On 11/2/2019 at 11:27 PM, Avrgejane said:

I find that some symptoms have become less in intensity. The derealization is a bit less and so is the depersonalization. I am still very dizzy and spacey, still having issues with my memory and also have very sensitive hearing and ringing in my ears. Insomnia is still there but I am trying some natural remedies. I also have very transient nausea every once in a while. I’m doing a lot of positive self talk basically telling myself I am seeing improvement so that means I am healing! It’s not “there” yet but it’s moving so that’s positive right? It’s been 34 days since I stopped the meds on the QT. I’m also doing some neuroplasticity work and have started doing DNRS. My brain is rewiring and healing. My lesson is to be patient and to be positive with the little successes. 

 

What do you think? 

@Avrgejane where are you now?

[Avrgejane]

@Altostrata

So here I am - March starts 6 months and I’m still going through it. Hard to believe that I was only on the Amitriptyline for 50 days. Within that 50 days though I went from 12.5 - 100mg in 5.5 weeks, with increased panic and dissociated panic increasing at 50mg and then full blown sensory overload at 100mg. I did take intermittent Ativan too. I’m wondering that is also part of the reason why this is lasting so long? Clearly I did not respond well at all to the amitriptyline and it was what sent me over the edge. 
 

Is this common? Still being in the throes I’d withdrawal 5 (going on 6) full months later? I have seen improvements, yes, but they aren’t earth shattering by any means. I have recently taken time off work. 
 

The derealization/depersonalization has gotten better but things still aren’t there yet - there is still a weird surreal nature to everything; the anxiety is through the roof; nausea every day (which has come and gone and really impacts my appetite); flashing lights; depression (which I never had before this); monkey brain that just ruminates; vibrations under the skin, cortisol and adrenaline surges especially at night and first thing in the morning; still episodes of overwhelm brinking on sensory overload; plus the vertigo. It’s not as bad as it was but it’s certainly still there - and can be triggered by up and down head movement or side to side movement. It depends on the day. I still also get super spacey sometimes where I have to remind myself what I’m doing....also my feelings have still come back to the degree they were pre-amitriptyline an Ativan. Waves and windows always - I never seem to get a day where I’m like “what an amazing day”. 

 

I don’t know if these are normal still at this stage. It’s frightening and not many seem to understand. I’m trying to stay positive but it is very difficult. I also find that mornings are horrible - anxiety and nausea is at a super high and then come the evening things let up a little. 
 

I guess I’m just looking for some reassurance that even after a short period on, this is normal and I am healing and recovering. 
 

Thanks for your support xx

AJ

[Gridley]

3 minutes ago, Avrgejane said:

 

Is this common? Still being in the throes I’d withdrawal 5 (going on 6) full months later? I have seen improvements, yes, but they aren’t earth shattering by any means. I have recently taken time off work. 
 

Very common.  The improvements are going to be very gradual, never earth-shattering, as described in the Windows & Waves link Alto provided earlier.  50 days is definitely enough time on the drug to produce what you're going through.  It's great that you're seeing some improvements, however modest, and it's a sign that you are healing.  

[Avrgejane]

@Gridley scary isn’t it? I’m heading on 6 months and can’t even work. Have you seen this before? People on for short times going through a lengthy withdrawal? I’m sure the Ativan probably complicated things as well. Do those symptoms sound normal given the time off? Sometimes I just need a virtual hug and a pep talk. xx

[Gridley]

13 minutes ago, Avrgejane said:

@Gridley scary isn’t it? I’m heading on 6 months and can’t even work. Have you seen this before? People on for short times going through a lengthy withdrawal? I’m sure the Ativan probably complicated things as well. Do those symptoms sound normal given the time off? Sometimes I just need a virtual hug and a pep talk. xx

It's all too common for WD to last much longer than time on the drugs.  It is normal, and your symptoms are normal. You are doing fine, showing some improvement, and will definitely heal.

[Avrgejane]

Thank you for reassuring me. It is a one step forward two steps back process isn’t it. I can’t wait to come out on the other side of this. I’m mentally exhausted. There are some days I think I can’t do this anymore. It’s a very discouraging process. I know I will heal from this - it’s just a matter of when. And going through this in the dead of winter is not easy! Mood is very impacted. 
 

I need to get the cortisol under control though - the sleep issue (I do sleep but the quality sucks) impacts healing for sure. 
 

Thanks for your support. xx

[Gridley]

15 minutes ago, Avrgejane said:

Thanks for your support

Happy to help.

[Snorky]

Hi A

 

Hope your symptoms are at least stabilising. I also came off Amitriptyline (12 months) Been going through hell since  CT cessation last Sept. I note you mention depressive symptoms, which is by far the worst for me. How would you characterise these?

 

God bless.

 

 

[Avrgejane]

@Sassenach

@Altostrata

@Gridley

 

Question for you - do you think that my symptoms could be related to the Ativan? I did take them for during my first week and a half during withdrawal but did also take them a few times over the month and a half on. I think I took them about 12 times total? In varying doses unfortunately.... 0.25 to .75. Not every day but I guess that doesn’t matter when it comes to benzos. Maybe I kindled myself? What do you think? God I hope not. Could this be the reason I am 

having a challenging time? I quick tapered off the Ami after only 2 months use approx. Would love your thoughts. 

[Avrgejane]

@Snorky

I just came to the conclusion recently that I may have complicated things by taking benzos intermittently. I don’t know but it’s possible and I will never under estimate the benzo in terms of withdrawal. 
 

But some of my symptoms have lessened or gotten a little better. I definitely still have many many of them. Right now my biggest challenges are the overwhelm/sensory overload which went away for a while but has resurfaced - maybe not to the degree it was before but it sure makes it hard to function; the crippling anxiety and the nausea and the adrenaline surges/jolts that happen usually at 3am and 6am. 
 

I still have burning skin, weird perception things where things aren’t quite normal yet and are surreal; I also have days where the derealization and depersonalization are worse; blurry vision or it just doesn’t seem like I’m seeing as well; ringing in my ears; insomnia sometimes; vibration feeling under the skin, muscle twitches, I get this wormy feeling in my teeth, flashes of light, the depression is more like Im never going to get through this and a very sad and down feeling - especially when it is gloomy outside which happens a lot in the winter (of course I never had this before the drug); brain shifting feeling especially when I move my eyes and of course there is the vertigo, which has gotten better. It was at its absolutely worst from October to December. Then the anxiety, nausea and overwhelm are otherworldly. Loss of appetite too which has resulted in 35lbs. I’ve been off for 5 months at the end of this week. Although I have seen improvements Im still not where I need to be. And again, I can’t tell you if this is just the Ami, the Ami and the benzo or just the benzo. 
 

The one lesson I did learn is that doctors don’t know what the hell they are doing with these drugs. They prescribe them and don’t understand or realize the potential harm and dangers. They never tell us - that’s why we end up in these positions and honestly, I don’t even think they know! 
 

Don’t forget too - I was only on this for 50 days and took Ativan about 12 times in a month and a half/two months. I had a very quick taper which might as well been a cold turkey. I wouldn’t say my symptoms are stabilizing yet, some have just gotten less intense and some have resurfaced. Definitely experiencing waves and windows patterns. 

[Gridley]

28 minutes ago, Avrgejane said:

Not every day but I guess that doesn’t matter when it comes to benzos. Maybe I kindled myself? What do you think? God I hope not. Could this be the reason I am 

having a challenging time? I quick tapered off the Ami after only 2 months use approx.

I think your symptoms are stemming from the Ami fast taper.  I don't think the benzo use is playing a part -- only 12 times in that time period is likely not enough to cause a problem.

 

The symptoms you describe in your second post are typical AD withdrawal symptoms.  It's very encouraging that you're getting better.  

[Snorky]

7 minutes ago, Avrgejane said:

@Snorky

I just came to the conclusion recently that I may have complicated things by taking benzos intermittently. I don’t know but it’s possible and I will never under estimate the benzo in terms of withdrawal. 
 

But some of my symptoms have lessened or gotten a little better. I definitely still have many many of them. Right now my biggest challenges are the overwhelm/sensory overload which went away for a while but has resurfaced - maybe not to the degree it was before but it sure makes it hard to function; the crippling anxiety and the nausea and the adrenaline surges/jolts that happen usually at 3am and 6am. 
 

I still have burning skin, weird perception things where things aren’t quite normal yet and are surreal; I also have days where the derealization and depersonalization are worse; blurry vision or it just doesn’t seem like I’m seeing as well; ringing in my ears; insomnia sometimes; vibration feeling under the skin, muscle twitches, I get this wormy feeling in my teeth, flashes of light, the depression is more like Im never going to get through this and a very sad and down feeling - especially when it is gloomy outside which happens a lot in the winter (of course I never had this before the drug); brain shifting feeling especially when I move my eyes and of course there is the vertigo, which has gotten better. It was at its absolutely worst from October to December. Then the anxiety, nausea and overwhelm are otherworldly. Loss of appetite too which has resulted in 35lbs. I’ve been off for 5 months at the end of this week. Although I have seen improvements Im still not where I need to be. And again, I can’t tell you if this is just the Ami, the Ami and the benzo or just the benzo. 
 

The one lesson I did learn is that doctors don’t know what the hell they are doing with these drugs. They prescribe them and don’t understand or realize the potential harm and dangers. They never tell us - that’s why we end up in these positions and honestly, I don’t even think they know! 
 

Don’t forget too - I was only on this for 50 days and took Ativan about 12 times in a month and a half/two months. I had a very quick taper which might as well been a cold turkey. I wouldn’t say my symptoms are stabilizing yet, some have just gotten less intense and some have resurfaced. Definitely experiencing waves and windows patterns. 

Hi A

 

Thanks for helpful update. Re depression- “very sad and down feeling, particularly when gloomy outside”., This is probably 70% of my experience. Drive anywhere in evening, walk down lonely street and depressive sensations are v bad and palpable. The 30% is where my brain won’t allow me to watch anything remotely scary    (not horror, just basic crime stuff) Couldn’t watch Dr Who the other day, as sort about Frankenstein. How bizarre is that.  Thankfully, haven’t been ruminating too much about when will it end.

 

Also get the lack of pleasure and inner restlessness thing, but guess they’re different?

 

God bless and protect you and yours.

[Ella56]

I read your experience and I am having all of those symptoms. Are you off all meds now? 

[Snorky]

30 minutes ago, Ella56 said:

I read your experience and I am having all of those symptoms. Are you off all meds now? 

Hi E

 

Yes, CT 25mg amitriptyline in Sept 19. Benn six months of hell, so much so that having to consider reinstatement an earlier, more successful AD (Effexor)

[Avrgejane]

47 minutes ago, Ella56 said:

I read your experience and I am having all of those symptoms. Are you off all meds now? 

@Ella56

 

Hi Ella, yes I’ve been off since October 1. September 30 was my last dose. Are you on amitriptyline too? 

[Avrgejane]

Oh and I also forgot to mention that I get sick scrolling on my phone! My symptoms seems to come in clusters. They window and wave - recently it’s the nausea/anxiety/overload-overwhelm trio. I don’t have any “normal” days per se. I am symptomatic every day but some days are manageable where others are challenging. 

[Avrgejane]

@India take a look above. I’ve been chatting with a few people. Still working through it. Hard to believe that I was only on this for 2 months. 

[Altostrata]

On 2/22/2020 at 8:20 AM, Avrgejane said:

....

The derealization/depersonalization has gotten better but things still aren’t there yet - there is still a weird surreal nature to everything; the anxiety is through the roof; nausea every day (which has come and gone and really impacts my appetite); flashing lights; depression (which I never had before this); monkey brain that just ruminates; vibrations under the skin, cortisol and adrenaline surges especially at night and first thing in the morning; still episodes of overwhelm brinking on sensory overload; plus the vertigo. It’s not as bad as it was but it’s certainly still there - and can be triggered by up and down head movement or side to side movement. It depends on the day. I still also get super spacey sometimes where I have to remind myself what I’m doing....also my feelings have still come back to the degree they were pre-amitriptyline an Ativan. Waves and windows always - I never seem to get a day where I’m like “what an amazing day”. 

....

 

Over the last 3 months, have symptoms gotten better, on the average? Which have gotten worse? How's your sleep?

 

Believe it or not, this sounds like normal post-acute withdrawal syndrome (PAWS).

[Avrgejane]

@Altostrata

So this sounds normal? And is PAWS common? Is that what most people on the site are referring to as withdrawal? 
 

Most symptoms have gotten a touch better actually. They are still there but not as bad as October. I can drive now, I find my thinking is clearer...I still have mild insomnia but that could be because of the ridiculous cortisol/adrenaline jolts. 
 

it still goes in the waves and windows pattern. 

[Avrgejane]

@Altostrata

 

That being said - even though I am experiencing some improvement in symptoms the ones that have cropped up again and are severe are the anxiety, nausea and overload. 
 

Is it guaranteed that I will have the 10 month wave and the 18 month wave as people talk about? 

[Gridley]

19 minutes ago, Avrgejane said:

 

Is it guaranteed that I will have the 10 month wave and the 18 month wave as people talk about? 

 

No, it happens to some and not to others.

[Avrgejane]

@GridleyOk. Let’s hope that I’m able to dodge that. 🤞 typically how long do these waves last when people go through them? Is PAWS what most people are referring to as withdrawal on the site? And I shouldn’t be alarmed by things like if a symptom goes away then comes back? That’s normal (well as normal as this can be) too? 

[Gridley]

7 minutes ago, Avrgejane said:

@GridleyOk. Let’s hope that I’m able to dodge that. 🤞 typically how long do these waves last when people go through them? Is PAWS what most people are referring to as withdrawal on the site? And I shouldn’t be alarmed by things like if a symptom goes away then comes back? That’s normal (well as normal as this can be) too? 

There is just no predicting how long a wave or window will last.  They can come and go quickly or last quite a while

 

First there is the acute withdrawal stage, which can last 2 months or more.  Then PAWS (post acute withdrawal syndrome) can follow.

Protracted Withdrawal or PAWS (post-acute withdrawal ...

Symptoms can disappear then come back then disappear, etc.  It is normal.

 

[Altostrata]

On 2/24/2020 at 1:51 PM, Avrgejane said:

Is it guaranteed that I will have the 10 month wave and the 18 month wave as people talk about? 

 

People talk about this, but I haven't seen any evidence it exists. Everyone's progress is different.

[Avrgejane]

@Altostrata is it common for the insane anxiety and nausea to fluctuate out as far as 6 months?