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Idlehnds

The Withdrawal Loop

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Idlehnds

Hi Everyone!  I felt it was important to give a quick understanding about what I have learned through withdrawal and how to possibly break the cycle of the extended withdrawal loop.

 

I believe withdrawal is only 2-6 weeks in length.  I am not a doctor, but when the doctor says that withdrawal is only this long, I believe they are right.  The issue they don’t understand is the loops our brains go into that keep the symptoms going for much longer.

What happens is our nervous system and our brain becomes hypersensitive during this process.  As I have learned, withdrawal is basically emotional/physical trauma according to our brains.  When you go through such a difficult period of brain zaps, bad digestion, insomnia, headaches, and the list can go on and on.   I haven’t even mentioned the completely weird symptoms that make no sense that every doctor thinks you have some serious condition.   So now our brain has gone through some serious trauma of symptoms that a lot of us have never had or maybe haven’t had in a long time.   What is happening right now is your subconscious is sending these alerts to conscious brain that we are “under attack”, “something bad is happening”, “be hyper vigilant”!  So the conscious brain starts to worry, trys to fix it, starts googling, starts focusing on symptoms, fear, fear, fear, fear (creates neural pathways), go on forums and see if people have the same symptoms (which is fear).  It then goes back to our subconscious and reaffirms this which then starts firing up the defense system AKA fight or flight.  When you are in fight or flight guess what happens, more symptoms and then the loops start all over again.

 

So how do we break this loop?  For me, these are the biggest things that have helped.

 

1.       Mindfulness.  You have to first be aware of your thoughts in the conscious stage of this loop.  You can’t fix the symptoms, but the thoughts/feelings you can rewire which will eventually stop the symptoms.

2.       Find a program like Gupta Programme, or  DNRS.  These are both neural retraining programs that help you catch the loop and rewire it.

3.       Realize that nothing is wrong with you and that you can heal and that you are just in a loop in your brain.  The more we are stuck in the in fear (angry, jealousy, inner critic, shame, etc) the more our bodies are pumping us with stress hormones that create symptoms.  The more we are in the feeling of LOVE, the happy chemicals that heal us like serotonin, dopamine, etc.  Our bodies have a internal pharmacy that can heal anything IMO, we just need to put ourselves in the rest and digest mode in order to have our bodies heal ourselves.  Also of course diet and other things.  This bullet point is important that you are 100% believe this.

4.       Meditation.  This really helps to calm your nervous system down.  But you really need to do it for 20-30 minutes a day.

 

Here is just a small sample of something I have learned on my journey.  I hope to one day possibly be a coach where I can guide people through what exactly I did.  Most of my information is all from the retraining programs I took.   I still get into loops but I can quickly get myself out of them because I no longer fear my body.  I realize that once I get IBS, or if I get a headache my body is just telling me something.  Its always because I am not aligned with love which I have found is always the emotional cause of it.    When I am aligned with worry or fear my body is sensitive and I get symptoms.   It’s a reminder to get back to my true nature.  Joy and happiness.

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Alice1

What's your opinion about Akathisia , CT , rapid taper and adverse reaction ?

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Cloudskishawna

 you might be right I've only been off mirtazapine for 2 weeks I'm feeling the effects of withdrawals and you are right when I look up symptoms or see other people commenting on the same things it adds fear especially if they say they haven't gotten any better in x amount of months that's why I left a Facebook group for that very reason to much negativity 

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Idlehnds
1 hour ago, Alice1 said:

What's your opinion about Akathisia , CT , rapid taper and adverse reaction ?

 

It seems like Akathisia, CT withdrawal, rapid taper withdrawal and adverse reaction are all brain Trauma's that start the loop.    I am sure there is a lot more in play here such as vitamin deficiencies, life experiences that have created habits in the brain, repressed emotions, etc.  With bad trauma you create neural pathways in the brain that can really mess up your internal software.  All of these are trauma.  Changing the wiring of your brain with medicine can have a lot of effects depending on you as a individual person.  However, the great part is that I believe we have all the healing inside of us.  We just have a tendency to look outside and not within.  I thought all my symptoms was because something was wrong with me physically.  Little did I know that it was all because of my thoughts.   I will be back on Monday to discuss more if you like.  

 

 

 

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Alice1
9 minutes ago, Idlehnds said:

 I will be back on Monday to discuss more if you like.  

 Yes .. Lets keep this going .. I have a lot to ask and say ..

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Cloudskishawna

Yep I'm interested to keep it up it can give me something to look forward to 

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Onmyway
6 hours ago, Idlehnds said:

Hi Everyone!  I felt it was important to give a quick understanding about what I have learned through withdrawal and how to possibly break the cycle of the extended withdrawal loop.

 

I believe withdrawal is only 2-6 weeks in length.  I am not a doctor, but when the doctor says that withdrawal is only this long, I believe they are right.  The issue they don’t understand is the loops our brains go into that keep the symptoms going for much longer.

What happens is our nervous system and our brain becomes hypersensitive during this process.  As I have learned, withdrawal is basically emotional/physical trauma according to our brains.  When you go through such a difficult period of brain zaps, bad digestion, insomnia, headaches, and the list can go on and on.   I haven’t even mentioned the completely weird symptoms that make no sense that every doctor thinks you have some serious condition.   So now our brain has gone through some serious trauma of symptoms that a lot of us have never had or maybe haven’t had in a long time.   What is happening right now is your subconscious is sending these alerts to conscious brain that we are “under attack”, “something bad is happening”, “be hyper vigilant”!  So the conscious brain starts to worry, trys to fix it, starts googling, starts focusing on symptoms, fear, fear, fear, fear (creates neural pathways), go on forums and see if people have the same symptoms (which is fear).  It then goes back to our subconscious and reaffirms this which then starts firing up the defense system AKA fight or flight.  When you are in fight or flight guess what happens, more symptoms and then the loops start all over again.

 

So how do we break this loop?  For me, these are the biggest things that have helped.

 

1.       Mindfulness.  You have to first be aware of your thoughts in the conscious stage of this loop.  You can’t fix the symptoms, but the thoughts/feelings you can rewire which will eventually stop the symptoms.

2.       Find a program like Gupta Programme, or  DNRS.  These are both neural retraining programs that help you catch the loop and rewire it.

3.       Realize that nothing is wrong with you and that you can heal and that you are just in a loop in your brain.  The more we are stuck in the in fear (angry, jealousy, inner critic, shame, etc) the more our bodies are pumping us with stress hormones that create symptoms.  The more we are in the feeling of LOVE, the happy chemicals that heal us like serotonin, dopamine, etc.  Our bodies have a internal pharmacy that can heal anything IMO, we just need to put ourselves in the rest and digest mode in order to have our bodies heal ourselves.  Also of course diet and other things.  This bullet point is important that you are 100% believe this.

4.       Meditation.  This really helps to calm your nervous system down.  But you really need to do it for 20-30 minutes a day.

 

Here is just a small sample of something I have learned on my journey.  I hope to one day possibly be a coach where I can guide people through what exactly I did.  Most of my information is all from the retraining programs I took.   I still get into loops but I can quickly get myself out of them because I no longer fear my body.  I realize that once I get IBS, or if I get a headache my body is just telling me something.  Its always because I am not aligned with love which I have found is always the emotional cause of it.    When I am aligned with worry or fear my body is sensitive and I get symptoms.   It’s a reminder to get back to my true nature.  Joy and happiness.

Yeah, no!

We have heard this theory before, a few times in fact and at least once on this forum. And it does not explain a lot of the withdrawal symptoms - for example, the cortisol mornings or the paresthesias or the light sensitivity or the morning nausea or the windows and waves patterns which are observations we all have. Many people discover this site and other such sites months into WD so their symptoms are not caused by looking up symptoms. 


Also, this smells a lot like "blaming the victim" here and a suggestion to "pull yourself by the bootstraps." My doctor blamed all my symptoms on "health anxiety" which I have never had in my life. There is no amount of mindfulness that can get me out of a chemically induced emotional spiral and I feel very differently about the same issue depending on whether I am in a window or a wave.

 

This theory also denies the physical and physiological changes that we know occur in the brain and that do disrupt other systems - hormones etc.  So far the autonomous dysregulation theory is the one that fits the data best, as far as I am concerned. 

 

My understanding of the Gupta program is that it works for some (possibly as a placebo, possibly because it is a good program) but it really is a collation of various fads and pseudoscience ideas but it costs a lot of money. I am glad that it worked for you, for whatever reason. 


Also, I don't think that this belongs in the Symptoms and Care forum, perhaps it is better suited for the Withdrawal Dialogues? 

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Idlehnds
2 hours ago, Onmyway said:

Yeah, no!

We have heard this theory before, a few times in fact and at least once on this forum. And it does not explain a lot of the withdrawal symptoms - for example, the cortisol mornings or the paresthesias or the light sensitivity or the morning nausea or the windows and waves patterns which are observations we all have. Many people discover this site and other such sites months into WD so their symptoms are not caused by looking up symptoms. 


Also, this smells a lot like "blaming the victim" here and a suggestion to "pull yourself by the bootstraps." My doctor blamed all my symptoms on "health anxiety" which I have never had in my life. There is no amount of mindfulness that can get me out of a chemically induced emotional spiral and I feel very differently about the same issue depending on whether I am in a window or a wave.

 

This theory also denies the physical and physiological changes that we know occur in the brain and that do disrupt other systems - hormones etc.  So far the autonomous dysregulation theory is the one that fits the data best, as far as I am concerned. 

 

My understanding of the Gupta program is that it works for some (possibly as a placebo, possibly because it is a good program) but it really is a collation of various fads and pseudoscience ideas but it costs a lot of money. I am glad that it worked for you, for whatever reason. 


Also, I don't think that this belongs in the Symptoms and Care forum, perhaps it is better suited for the Withdrawal Dialogues? 

 

Hi there!  Thanks for responding!  So for the first part, You mentioned that it doesnt explain the symptoms.  I can only speak for myself on all of this and what I have discovered so please keep this in mind.  I had a bunch of symptoms that kept rotating around.  It was either IBS, or panic in the mornings, to muscle pain, tmj, emotional spirals, brain fog, and other things.   All I know that I was able to really eliminate them when I started to change my beliefs and rewire my brain.

 

So I know you were saying that there is no amount of mindfulness that can get you out of your emotional spiral.  Consciously in my brain I would be okay, but I had feelings that would erupt out of nowhere that I just couldn’t control.  I couldn't figure it out why I would sit there and have panic or have fear over something stupid.   Then the next day I would have something similar and I would have no reactions in my body.  Why do I start crying over one thing and not another and they are so similar?   I would just wake up angry and mad for no apparent reason.  Why? 

 

Before I started to ask the question why? I had to be mindful that it was happening.  I had to be able to be a watcher of what was going on.  Why would my body just automatically react, or why would I have certain emotions?  Now, I am going to back track here and tell you what got me to the part of being able to be a watcher of my feelings and thoughts.

 

About a year ago I had this extreme pain in my leg.  Like unbearable.  I went to doctor after doctor after doctor trying to find the reason.  I went to chiropractors, physical therapy, got an MRI, etc. etc.  They said had an 8mm disc bulge pressing on a nerve that was causing all my pain in two spots.  They said you had to do more physical therapy (which I already did) or I would have to go to a pain management and then to a surgeon.  Woah woah woah I thought and I starting searching around.  I found a guy name Dr Sarno who wrote a book called “Healing Back Pain” which he found a way to cure people of their back pain without any surgery or without any other normal doctor ways.  Matter of fact it was the exact opposite.  He said you needed to basically get back to exercising and do the things that you have stopped doing because of your back (removing the fear).  So, I started doing deadlifts at the gym (slowly I worked up) and started pushing myself through the pain.  I started to push away my thoughts whenever it would focus on the pain and engage in something else.  I learned about the symptoms imperative and a conditioned response (all brain stuff).  After about 3 months the pain went away and never came back.

 

This led me to believe that there is something so much more powerful with our mindy/body that I never understood.   So, I started learning about everything I could about the mind/body and spirit.  I learned a lot from a guy name Dr Joe Dispenza, Bruce Lipton, watched a documentary called Heal on Netflix and indulged myself in this type of “Pseudoscience” amongst other natural healers.  Starting seeing a Mind/Body/Spirit specialist named Dr Divi (she has a Ted Talk on Youtube) and I learned so much.  Although I got rid of my severe leg pain, I still had all the other symptoms.  All during this time I was withdrawing from my Lexapro.  Every time I would drop I would get symptoms that would lead me to more panic and fear and would keep this loop going around and around and symptoms never would stop and my erratic emotions would continue.

 

So I learned a lot about mindfulness about being the watcher of your thoughts and feelings.  I would be able to pinpoint and name my thoughts/emotions if it didn’t align with love.  There are a lot of things we don’t think about that align with fear.

 

Here is a small list of things I would notice.

1.     Judging people.

2.     Fortune telling – predicting the future

3.     Needing to prove you are right.

4.     Worry.

5.     Negative thinking.

6.     Being a victim

7.     People pleasing.

8.     Overdoing it.

9.     Anger over dumb stuff (people cutting me off on the rode or people riding in the carpool lane with only one person)

10.  Anger of family issues.

11.  Complaining.

12.  Constantly bodychecking for symptoms.

13.  Avoiding things.

 

I realized that I could see all these fearful things going on in me but I couldn’t control them.  I couldn’t stop the feelings or the thoughts.  It wasn’t until I found DNRS and Gupta.  They explained that if you can rewire your brain and stop these thoughts/feelings when they come you can heal your symptoms.  By now I was a believer because ever doctor that I have ever had only always try to fix the symptoms.  Ohh you have anxiety!  Here is an Ativan.  Ohhh you can sleep.  Here is a sleeping Pill.  Ohhh you have anxiety and can’t sleep here is a Anti-depressant.  Ohh you have leg problems lets have surgery.

 

I was a believer in the mind/body/spirit after all this.  When you rewire, you catch your thoughts (we have a lot more then you think) and you replace with it love.  That is simple version explained but there is a lot more then just that.  So I started to do what these courses said as well as Dr Divi and other people I am reading.  They say to re-ingage with Joy, rewire, and to relax.  I would meditate (calm my nervous system), rewire when any fear thought comes, and I would engage with the present moment and joy.  No matter how crappy I felt I would do it.   You know what started happening, I got happier and happier and my symptoms started to disappear.  Now I am still in the early stages but for me it’s the best I have ever felt.

 

Also let me clear up a few things that you said.

 

“We have heard this theory before, a few times in fact and at least once on this forum. And it does not explain a lot of the withdrawal symptoms - for example, the cortisol mornings or the paresthesias or the light sensitivity or the morning nausea or the windows and waves patterns which are observations we all have. Many people discover this site and other such sites months into WD so their symptoms are not caused by looking up symptoms.”

 

I had a bunch of symtpoms.  It was until I started giving compassion and rewiring my thoughts and not letting them stay for long periods of time that I was stopping the stress response in my body which takes away the vitamins, digestion, hormonal balance and completely puts resources in other parts of our body so we cant heal.  This is just my experience.  I choose to believe this because of experience and I have never been happier.

 

Also, this smells a lot like "blaming the victim" here and a suggestion to "pull yourself by the bootstraps." My doctor blamed all my symptoms on "health anxiety" which I have never had in my life. There is no amount of mindfulness that can get me out of a chemically induced emotional spiral and I feel very differently about the same issue depending on whether I am in a window or a wave.

 

I am not “blaming the victim”.  However, I am saying that we have a lot more control over our bodies then we think.  We do have the ability to rewire our brains (science calls this neuroplasticity) and when we can put ourselves back into the rest and relaxation response (parasympathetic nervous system) our hormones balance, our genes turn on or off, and our bodies heal.  This isnt a overnight process.  It could take someone days, months, years.

 

This theory also denies the physical and physiological changes that we know occur in the brain and that do disrupt other systems - hormones etc.  So far the autonomous dysregulation theory is the one that fits the data best, as far as I am concerned. 

 

Now I am not an expert in this by any means.  I do know that people that have had severe strokes, have been able to use different parts their brain that was originally thought that couldn’t be done.  For instance, people use a certain portion of there brain for moving there arms, but once that is damaged the brain can actually learn to use a different portion of the brain for that function.  So that is telling me that our brains are much more plastic then we think. 

 

My understanding of the Gupta program is that it works for some (possibly as a placebo, possibly because it is a good program) but it really is a collation of various fads and pseudoscience ideas but it costs a lot of money. I am glad that it worked for you, for whatever reason. 

 

You should sign up for the Gupta program for free and you can see the first 3 lessons for yourself so you can get a better understanding.  Its only $350.00 for the program.  Now, out of all the money I have spent on medicine, doctors, supplements, etc.  This is nothing.  I don’t know about you but I have spent a fortune.  Every time I go to the Chiropractor, the psychiatrist, supplements, etc. and spending $350.00 was well worth it to me.

 

Remember, this is just my experience, but when I stopped the fear response in my body and started engaging from love, the symptoms and emotional spirals started to change.  They started to get lesser and lesser.  I also now understand myself better then ever.  I understand that there is nothing wrong with me.  That all my life experiences (family life, friends) until now have brought me to were I am.  My brain was only doing what it knows how to do.  To protect us.  When I had extreme stress, it kept trying to protecting me.  But the protecting causes stress hormones that put my body out of balance.  It was a viscous loop.  When I was able to rewire that response, I was put back into balance.  There are still ups and downs, but I now have to tools to make sure I have way more ups then I ever did.

 

I hope you find relief and you are able to find joy and happiness Onmyway.  Lots of love.

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Alice1

All I know is that "Light" has been suffering for 14 years and he didn't start to get better until he applied all these strategies you're talking about .. It took him a year and a half , but its working for him ..    I've also heard countless stories of others as well .. I think the main problem is that we want instant success , so when one works at it for weeks and months , and doesn't see much progress they give up , and continue to behave apprehensively , which stresses the body .. That's my problem ..

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Idlehnds

I agree Alice.  I still go through my loops also.  Matter of fact I had one this weekend that I am struggling with.  I dont think the work ever ends.  It just slowly gets better and better. 

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India
On 10/12/2019 at 2:43 AM, Onmyway said:

There is no amount of mindfulness that can get me out of a chemically induced emotional spiral

Amen . 

On 10/12/2019 at 6:48 AM, Idlehnds said:

This theory also denies the physical and physiological changes that we know occur in the brain and that do disrupt other systems - hormones etc.  So far the autonomous dysregulation theory is the one that fits the data best, as far as I am concerned. 

Concur 

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