DD44: please help, currently on mirtazapine and gabapentin

[DD44]

In Jan 2018 I was put on Temazapam 22.5mg for insomnia. Remeron 15mg was then added to increase effectiveness. 

Everything was okay, but in Aug 18' I wanted off Remeron first because of weight gain, I was also having chronic pain in elbows which wouldnt resolve. (i was a personal trainer, and highly active my entire life, but had suffered some chronic pain issues along the way- I am 33 currently)

I believe the chronic pain issue might stem from large amounts of childhood trauma, neglect, and abandonment. My mother left me at 13, father is alcoholic, discovered deceased boyfriend at 27)

Doctor also allowed me to switch temazapam to ambien in aug 18' because i believed i could taper ambien easier (pills vs capsules) and I had tapered Ambien and light xanax use no problem when boyfriend died in 2012.

 

I began remeron taper in aug and went too fast, landed me in hospital in october 2018' with first panic attack. Slowed taper and continued. Taper completed some time in April/May of 2019. Sleep began to suffer.

 

By May 19' things were very bad, hard to remember, but its the first time I felt deep depression (never considered myself depressed my entire life, not even when boyfriend passed, although I did have a ton of childhood and adult trauma that has not likely been properly addressed)

 

By July things were extremly bad, and then dad had a double heart attack. Once that happen, hell really broke loose, and ambien became completely ineffective. Dad survived, but I came out with IBS issues, extreme panic, deeper depression, lost appetite, lost muscle mass, constant diarrhea, anal pain. etc. Began to wonder if I had other diseases, such as lyme. Doctored had me try a carousel of meds, trazadone, gabapentin, seroquel...

Then doctor C/T my ambien in aug because it wasnt "doing anything for me".

Some of my symptoms have improved. Able to eat more and bowels are doing ok. Sleep is the main issue. By a long shot. Its hard to even talk about. 

Remeron 7-15 was reinstated and gabapentin added. I dont know how I will be from day to day. I am alone in this. Mother and father doing what they normally do, run away from me if something is wrong.

I want to win this battle but am very scared. I live with roommates (family/friends) but they do not understand what is happening, and they themselves are dysfunctional in many ways. I have a part time job, but it is in no way shape or form what I am meant to do with my life. I have no children and no partner. I am 33 and want to believe I can become drug free and have a life after this. Any help on what to do next is appreciated.  

 

My hope to to become more stable and then make a educated plan on how to get where I would like to be. 

[apace41]

Hi, DD44.  You have been under a great deal of stress with a lot of challenging personal situations.  First things first -- you need to stabilize on the meds you are on and not go round and round on the carousel you mention.  Your nervous system needs to stop the assault of different meds.  In that regard, can you please provide a drug history in your signature so that we can see what meds you have taken and for how long?  That would be a good place to start.  Your story is all too familiar for this site and if you take the long view, try to relax despite the distress you are in, and read the information on this site, we will be able to help you come up with an approach to achieve your goals of stabilizing and getting off the meds.  

 

Start here and see that you are not alone:

Best,

 

Andy

 

[DD44]

Mod note- merged introductions, This one titled:  Please Help Not Resting

 

Please view my signature, it lists details there. Right now I am on 7.5 mg remeron and 100mg of gabapentin, and its not helping my worst symptom which is to actually fall asleep. I dont know if I am making things worse, being on this forum because retelling my story over and over jsut makes me feel worse, but the doctors are almost zero help other than throwing this and that at me. I am at the point where I say to myself, well medicated sleep is preferable to none at all. I want to survive this. Please be careful with your responses, as my state of mind is delicate and I have little support. And in regards to the sleep, yes I do make room, cool, dark, I use ear plugs at times, I TRY to reduce screens, but when I am like this, I have to listen to something, guided meditations or binurial beats or else I will just get very upset. I am trying melatonin, CBD, walk before bed, hot showers, going to try a weight blanket. Just need to fall asleep. I do have a part time job that starts in the afternoons, but it is impossible to predict right now how I will feel from day to day. I try to talk to myself and tell myself I am a fighter, and I will make it through this, but I have been suffering this terrible side effect for about three months. I should mention it all got VERY bad when I had a colonoscopy/endoscopy on July 24th, because I was having BAD GI issues which have settled down. The prep for that made me stay up all night and since then its been horrible. I cant function like this. 

Edited October 13, 2019 by manymoretodays
2nd introduction merged with first

[Gridley]

Welcome to SA, DD44.  I'm sorry you're having these terrible sleep problems.  It is unfortunately a very common symptom for those of us in withdrawal from psychiatric drugs.

 

Here are some links that might be of help to you.

 

Tips to help sleep - so many of us have that awful withdrawal insomnia

 

Relaxation exercises, guided meditations, calming videos, sleep hypnosis

 

Trick and tips to fall asleep faster

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2017/02/16/tips-tricks-fall-asleep-faster.aspx?utm_source=dnl&utm_medium=email&utm_content=art1&utm_campaign=20170216Z1&et_cid=DM133787&et_rid=1889748952

 

This link contains helpful information, including insomnia and also non-drug coping skills.  

 

 Important topics about symptoms, including sleep problems

 

Some members have found Melatonin helpful with insomnia.   

 

Melatonin for sleep   

 

It's best to start at a very low dosage, such as .25mg, and gradually increase if needed to the lowest effective dose.  The 5mg you're taking is a high dose for someone in withdrawal.  At high doses melatonin can have a paradoxical (activating) effect.  You might want to consider lowering the dose.

 

This is your Introduction topic, where you can ask questions and connect with other members.  We're glad you found your way here.

 

 

 

[smketdie]

We are all here for you. Just dont feel yourself alone. There are a lot of people here just like you feeling weird things. The doctors are major problem, yes. İt iş like you are a Target board.   I think you made the right choice by telling your story here again.  

[DD44]

really need to know what to do if im getting basically no perceived sleep. I feel ok during the day (strangely) but have been having sleepless nights for weeks. it makes no sense. some say i must be getting micro sleeps but i dont know. i have felt drowsy maybe half a dozen times in about two months. this one symptom alone has me really contemplating my options. i know that the moderators generally never recommend to calm a symptom with a new drug but i dont know how long i can manage this way, i am 33 and i cant walk away or talk time off from my job. this is a rare circumstance, where i am not having perceived sleep at all, its all i need to get things in the right direction. for me to have less pain and less anxiety, and better focus on getting myself healthy. i am seriously considering going on a anti depressant to try to get things under control. im in month three of continuous sleepless nights and dont think staying this way is helping my recovery. iv been offered seroquel and been given klonpin. my doctor is very clueless on what to do. any help is appreciated. 

[Gridley]

1 hour ago, DD44 said:

i know that the moderators generally never recommend to calm a symptom with a new drug but i dont know how long i can manage this way,

 

That is true, we don't recommend it.  

 

DD, if your post is about your situation, please post only in your original Introduction topic.   That way, all your information is in one place.  

Edited October 13, 2019 by manymoretodays
posts moved back to first introduction

[DD44]

okay i have put my history in my signature. I think the gabapentin is giving me GI issues. I suspected this when i first tried it months ago, but couldnt be sure. I have only been using 100mg for two days. CAn i stop after two days? Also been on the remeron 7.5 for about a week. its not really helping. My biggest by a LONG LONG shot symptom is my sleep has dissapeared. i feel so so during the day, a bit anxious ans sad, depressed, but not being able to sleep by far is the most disturbing thing. I dont know what to do, i really need help here. i know there are no magic answers but i am contimplating what medication might help soften things a little big every day. i understand that treating a symptom with a new drug is risky, no recommended, etc, but i dont feel i am even getting 1-2 hours sleep most nights, and have been like this for over two months. i dont know how long i can go. please help.

unless i have some other unknown illness like lyme or severe hormone imbalance (endo said my hormones looked like pcos, but i felt she could be off and wasnt prepared to begin birth control right now when there are more difficult things at hand, also very delicate emotional state) this just doesnt make sense or seem normal, i can understand insomnia will be part of this process and could be for some time or forever, but feeling like you are not sleeping period for weeks seems like i will only keep spinning my wheels.

[DD44]

how do i respond to peoples messages. I really am not sure what to do. I am thinking i might stop the gabapentin this evening (only been two days at 100mg) i noticed i am more constipated. i suspected it messed up my GI BAD when i tried it back in july, its taken three months to get my GI anywhere close to back to normal so i dont need that if its not helping my sleep. i know that you guys dont recommend a new med for a symptom, but mine is so out of control i am just weighing my options here because i dont want to become more out of control, manic, non functional from severe sleep deprivation. i need to keep my job. i know insomnia is normal, but mine just seems really out of control.

[elbee]

11 hours ago, apace41 said:

First things first -- you need to stabilize on the meds you are on and not go round and round on the carousel you mention.  Your nervous system needs to stop the assault of different meds.

 

Hi DD44. I'm sorry to hear you're experiencing such intense distress. I'm going to agree with and emphasize what apace41 said above. Probably the most effective thing you can do at this point is to hold and not make any medication changes for the time being. I know from my own experience that when I was in severe pain, it seemed like the best thing to do was to try to "take something" to fix it. I realize what is being suggested is counter-intuitive, but med changes can cause complications, and stability at this juncture may most likely be the best bet.

[AuntieBea]

Hi DD44,

Please know that you are not alone. So many of us here have experienced this horrible symptom, are experiencing this horrible symptom. Long term sleep deprivation is so debilitating in every way, but please try to stay focused on the real source of answers, the long term solution which is what the moderators here are offering. Throwing more drugs at it only makes it worse in the end...at least that’s been my experience.

I’m into a six month stretch of sleep deprivation myself...I will very possibly be up tonight the same time as you, drinking herbal tea, lighting candles, praying for God’s help. Just know you are not alone, there are answers, and we will all heal in time.

 

 

 

[DD44]

I understand what everyone is saying, but i just question how much remeron 7.5 is helping me after one week of use. I can hold on it, but i just dont know how im going to make it much longer with no consistent rest. i really dont. im trying not to think about it during the day but its really just messing with me. i felt a small drowsy earlier around 5pm today... too early to turn in (We have a lot of dogd in my house and they dark a fair amount until everyone goes to bed around 10-12. im going to try an add yoga, meditation and do my best with my diet and water. i have been having a lot of trouble being functional. i am 33 with no saving and no family to help me. i cant take a leave of absence or just leave my job to stay home and wait till things get better. im really trying here. i really am

 

also could someone please instruct me on how i respond to people who comment on my posts? i cant figure out how to use this site and would like to feel like i am communicating with people vs just updating all day and not being able to respond to people. sorry, not trying to sound snippy i just really need some kind of relief some time.

[composter]

7 hours ago, AuntieBea said:

I’m into a six month stretch of sleep deprivation myself...I will very possibly be up tonight the same time as you, drinking herbal tea, lighting candles, praying for God’s help. Just know you are not alone, there are answers, and we will all heal in time.

 

 

 

 

This is exactly what I have done during periods of WD-induced insomnia. The tea, the candles, the prayer, it helps so much...not necessarily with the sleep but with the mindset. 

 

@DD44 you are doing a great job trying to make behavior changes like yoga, meditation, proper nutrition, and water. Take things one step at a time. You will get through this. The easiest way to respond to people is to use the “@“ symbol and then type their username. Perhaps English is not your first language?

 

Many members on here describe going through periods of extreme insomnia but they are still able to function. I know, during the insomnia that I have during waves, I may not get the sleep I usually need, but somehow I feel hyperactive and wired throughout the day, so it turns out okay. There’s a post by Brassmonkey about this somewhere. Please do read into the links that Gridley provided above about trying melatonin and other non-drug tools for sleep.

[Altostrata]

Welcome, DD.

 

What times of day do you take your drugs, and their dosages? Why was gabapentin added to Remeron? When did you start gabapentin? When did you start 7.5mg Remeron this last time around? Why did you choose 7.5mg?

[Giulietta]

Hello

 

Welcome to SA! You are not alone here and your pain is understood by us at SA.

 

Sleep deprivation is a very annoying symptom, which is widely experienced by members in SA. 

 

I know you have a lot of messages - which is nice - so  there is no need to respond to me. All of the information  is overwhelming - a lof things to look at, information and posts from people.

 

Based on my personal experience and those of friends on SA go througn - what @apace41 and @elbee is wise. Your nervous system is trying to stabilize and this is a frustratingly slow process. Giving it another change may cause complications.

 

14 hours ago, elbee said:

Probably the most effective thing you can do at this point is to hold and not make any medication changes for the time being. I know from my own experience that when I was in severe pain, it seemed like the best thing to do was to try to "take something" to fix it. I realize what is being suggested is counter-intuitive, but med changes can cause complications

 

I am sorry you are suffering and I am glad you are here.

 

 

[DD44]

@Altostrata I have been reinstated on Mirt 7.5 (can go up to 15 he said) for the last 7 days. The gaba was added to increase effectiveness (only two days ago and i stopped it last night because I could tell it was messing up my GI, it messed up my GI three months ago when I took it for 1 week but i couldnt be sure that it was to blame, it took three months for my GI to recover to 70%). EVERYTHING thats ever been given to me has been given to induce sleep. I never accepted any other anti depressants for mood because I wouldnt have ever considered myself depressed until this year (tapered the original dose of Mirt, moved somewhere that is not good for my self esteem or mind (low income), and my sleep began to suffer terribley) I was always a nightowl/late sleeper, but i slept before this all began in Jan 2018. I had one bad period of insomnia in 2016 that I made it out drug free. I have a lot of childhood trauma, pretty extreme neglect and abandonment issues. I could have easily been diagnosed as depressed prior to everything beginning. I was definitely anxious and didnt realize it before the severe insomnia started in Jan 2018. Thee stress at this point stems from being 33 and still have never really had a real 9-5 job (I was in fitness and a personal trainer before this all began, and went to college really late  at 27 and then by the time I finished at 32 in Aug 18, I was dependent on the meds to get me to bed}. I really just want to believe that I can become med free, and able to wake at a normal time so that I can have more opportunities, and a change at a decent happy life. Sorry if that is a lot of back story but I figured its important to be able to help me. I am trying my best to start incorporating all the things I know I should, yoga, meditation, blue light blocking glasses, low lights before bed, sunlight in the am, same wake and sleep times adjusted slowly. It is just very overwhelming when most people are looking at me wondering why I haven't started a "career" and am not getting on the fast track to get myself more financially stable and feeling like a have a full life. I have almost no friends at this point, family is very dysfunctional and worse off than me financially, and I have lost sight of the hobbies I love because I cannot predict how I will be from day to day. It just got so out of control that it has really thrown me into a complete panic and consumed me. I am doing my best to see that focusing on it day and night is clearly not going to help it. 

[Altostrata]

You've been taking the gabapentin for only a week? If so, I would not continue to take it. My guess is it's conflicting with mirtazapine, possibly in a paradoxical reaction. Please keep notes about your sleep pattern, hopefully it will now start to improve.

 

It will take time for your body to reset to normal sleeping patterns. You will have to be patient. Melatonin can help, see 

 

Melatonin for sleep: Many people find it helpful

 

Here are other non-drug methods to improve sleep. Strongly recommend you use them immediately:

 

Tips to help sleep -- so many of us have that awful withdrawal insomnia

 

Path to Better Sleep FREE online for everyone from the US Veterans Administration

 

Music for self-care: Calms hyperalertness, anxiety, aids relaxation and sleep

 

What is the sleep cycle?

 

TV or computer use in evening can disrupt sleep: Bright light signals the brain that it's daytime

 

[DD44]

@Altostrata so even though iv only been back on the Mirt 7.5 for 7 days, I should stay on it? Mind you I have been off it now since some time in April or May (cant be sure) and did a long slow taper, but wasn't looking for the warning signs that it wasnt going right. I wondered if this could have been protracted withdrawl from basically going off temazapam to ambien and then the ambien becoming ineffective. my history is so chaotic that it really feels impossible at this point for me to know what is causing what. or was i just having a resurge of original condition that was perpetuating itself? I just dont want to set myself so far back to being drug free when it seems like i was so close even though i have been suffering beyond anything i could have ever imagined...  doing a SECOND slow Mirt taper isnt the end of the world but i, just really conflicted right now. 

 

Also my sleep was suffering a lot as far back as May, so that could very well have been wasnt adjusting to the decrease (dry taper) of Mirt. Everything went super downhill drastically when I had a colonoscopy on June 24th. Could I have had a bad reaction the the prep for the colonoscopy and the propofol that they give you to knock you out? that was when everything got beyond bad..just wondering...

[Altostrata]

16 hours ago, DD44 said:

Could I have had a bad reaction the the prep for the colonoscopy and the propofol that they give you to knock you out?

 

Did you also get a sedative for the colonoscopy? Usually, that's a benzodiazepine. 

 

It's possible these additional drugs shook up your nervous system.

 

We can't tell what effect the mirtazapine is having as long as you're also taking gabapentin. The combination may be causing you further problems.

[DD44]

I stopped the gaba. I only took it 100mg for two days. Iv only been reinstate on the mirt 7.5 for 8 days (Iv been off it since I think may. Been progressively suffering more and more and then when I had the colonoscopy on June 24 I haven’t had really even 3 consecutive nights of rest since late June. Don’t know how long I can last. Was taking ambien all the way until late August? And then it was ineffective and C/t on me somewhere around then. They gave me propofol for the colonoscopy which puts you completely under, fully asleep. Things have been horrible since then. 

[DD44]

@Altostrata I am really wondering if staying on the 7.5 remeron is worth anything at this point. its been 8 days and i think i got 2 days of what felt like actual rest. I just dont know if reinstating after being off of it since may is helping or hurting. based on my history it seems like i was c/t off temazapam in aug 18' (switched to ambien, which may have blunted the withdrawl? ) and then dry tapered the remeron from aug 18 to may 19 and of course have been crashing ever since. i know there are many people here who have difficult sleep..i just. i dont know. i guess what i am wondering is how long would i go like this before i consider its not the drugs or i just die..its seems impossible my symptom. im doing the best i can and would love to imagine in a year or so from now i will say wow glad i made it through but right now im just not seeing much. also wondering about CBT. trying to do CBT right now seems like adding insult to injury. i got a light massage yesterday and because i didnt sleep all it did was cause more pain, feels like i have been beaten up. at this point trying to limit my time in bed seems pointless when my physical body is just complete hurting. 

[apace41]

16 minutes ago, DD44 said:

 i know there are many people here who have difficult sleep..i just. i dont know. i guess what i am wondering is how long would i go like this before i consider its not the drugs or i just die..its seems impossible my symptom. 

 

DD44,

 

One of the hallmarks of withdrawal and the anxious thought processes it creates is the belief that things are "impossible" and that "our situation is unique" and "there is no way to get through this."  We pay lip service to the idea that others are in the same boat we are but on the inside, deep down, we think "nobody else has been like me -- I'm worse off and can't recover."  These are withdrawal/anxiety lies.  Others are in and have been in the same or worse places you are.  Lack of sleep will not kill you (at least not the kind you are having).  It feels like you never sleep a wink but if you are truly functional during the day that can't be the case.  Your body will do what it needs to do in terms of sleep.  You just need to trust the process and get out of its way.  The urge to fight and resist and find a way to "help things along" is powerful, but it is actually going to drag the process of recovery out a lot longer.  

 

The negative self-talk and catastrophizing that you are doing is making things worse.  You are continually triggering your CNS with more fight or flight each time you say things like "lack of sleep is going to kill me" -- essentially what you said above.  You need to work on letting go and accepting that this is where you are and that if you just let things be your system will repair itself and over time your sleep and other systems will return to normal.  The harder you fight the more you will struggle with this.  

 

I say this after years of fighting the battle and continuing to fight the battle.  Learn from those of us who have been in the trenches for a long time.  You can't fight your way out of this.  All you can do is let it happen, learn to accept, and do the best you can to live life around the edges of withdrawal.

 

Best,

 

Andy

[DD44]

@apace41 ok. I trust and believe you and understand many of the things you are saying. I guess at this point as I said before I’m just wondering what good 7.5 of remeron is doing for me being reinstated 8 days ago. If you feel confident that I should keep it there even though my primary symptom remains then I will since no doctor can lend me any other suggestion then to offer me more and stronger meds to induce sleep. I’m sorry I’m sticking out like this. I’m going to do my best to correct the negative self talk and not think about the issue as much as I possibly can. 

[apace41]

2 minutes ago, DD44 said:

I guess at this point as I said before I’m just wondering what good 7.5 of remeron is doing for me being reinstated 8 days ago. If you feel confident that I should keep it there even though my primary symptom remains then I will 

 

Here's the reality, DD44 -- I have no clue as to whether your body will respond better to staying on the 7.5mg of Remeron or getting off of it altogether.  You've been on it and off it several times in the past couple of years and it didn't seem to do much for you.  The bottom line is that my best guess is that whether you decide to keep taking it, stop taking it, taper off it or otherwise, you will have some bumps and struggle with sleep for a while because you've been up and down on it and the other drugs/supplements so that your CNS is having the "pinball machine" effect.  It's your call whether to stay on or get off the Remeron -- there is unfortunately no magic to this so we all have to take personal responsibility for our choices.  Regardless of whether you stay on or get off you need to stay where you are and make no further changes for the foreseeable future in order to allow the CNS to heal.  The more you can do to encourage a positive state of mind while you are waiting for improvement the better off you will be.  The only things we recommend in terms of supplements on the site are fish oil and magnesium, but only as tolerated.

 

It's not going to be a linear thing, DD44, and you will probably struggle as you move forward.  However, if you can get to a place where you sit for a while, I hope and believe your nervous system will move forward with healing and you can get to the place you want to go -- off the meds without so much struggling.  This won't be a quick process but it can be done.

 

Best,

 

Andy

[DD44]

@apace41 @Altostrata @composter @elbee @WiggleIt hi jsut tagging everyone here because im really not doing well. i stopped the gabapentin two days ago. on day 9 of reinstated 7.5 Mirt, and reduced the melatonin. I am just still really wondering about the Mirt. I am guessing it is dangerous at this point for me to go off it quick when its been nine days reinstated? it was reinstated after almost 4 months off just for reference. I ask because last night it almost felt like after i took it it made me wide awake even more. i take it around 1 (was close to my normal bedtime two years ago) and then i found myself really alert, i definitely stayed calm though from maybe 3-7, i have these things like daydreams, but not real dreams. then i would say from maybe 9am- 1ish i had some mild percieved drowsiness, but that was all. iv just seen some info on paradoxical effect and worry i could be doing that to myself with the Mirt or just creating something else to get off of for little to no reason. the only thing i wonder is if the Mirt 7.5 is whats keeping my mood calm and kind of muted. i dont currently have a lot of physical symptoms, mostly muscle pain, pain around eyes (all of which i know would sort out if i was getting even a couple hours of rest eachnight) i dont want to do anything stupid and make myself worse off. I am sorry for bothering everyone and the ramble but today was very hard, where i live no one understands whats going on with me, and when i tried to call my birth mother today and speak with her she basically just screamed at me, told me my father and her are sick of me, told me she doesnt want to talk to me and to leave her alone. really painful, really hurts in ways i cant convey. i dont have any plans for suicide, but i have felt for most of the day that i would be better off dead, and wishing i was. unfortunately my support system isnt there...

[Shep]

Quote

JAN 18' began 22.5 temazapam for servere month 

AUG 18 Doctor allowed me to switch temazapam to Ambien 10mg in AUG

i had used and tapered ambien and xanax in 2012 no problem

By July i was hardly able to rest and really just in sever depression etc. . . . continued to struggle and get by on rest from occasional .25-.5? of xanax

late September.  Also around this time the doctor c/t me on the Ambien

Around the same time was given Klonopin .5mg- .75mg. which i took for about ten days 

 

current supps- melatonin 5mg, magnesium glycinate 400mg, probiotic, glutamine, fish oil, vitamin d 4000mg, cbd when needed

 

DD, I pulled a few lines from your signature. 

 

Questions:

• When were you on Klonopin - was it September of 2018 or 2019? 
• Where you completely off all benzos and all psychiatric drugs from 2012 - 2018? 
• You mentioned decreasing the melatonin earlier in your thread. Are you still taking 5 mg? 
• When did you start taking glutamine? What dose are you taking?
• When are you taking your drugs and supplements? Please list each drug or supplement, the dose, and the time of day. 

It's possible you're dealing with benzo withdrawal, made much worse with the many other drugs that were prescribed over this past year. Although you were able to come off Ambien and Xanax in the past, benzos are notorious for causing a kindling effect, meaning after you've been exposed to a benzodiazepine, each subsequent withdrawal is worse.  

 

Vitamin D is a supplement that some people find stimulating, so this may be making your insomnia worse. 

 

It's also possible you're having a reaction to glutamine - many people on benzo withdrawal forums experience problems because glutamine affects GABA and glutamate. Glutamatergic hyper-reactivity may be in play at this point, creating a "fight or flight" response to drugs, supplements, and even foods that you've been able to tolerate in the past. 

 

Please do not make any changes to your supplements yet. If you are experiencing problems from glutamine, you'll want to taper off it. But let's get more information first. 

 

[DD44]

@Shep Hi and than you for helping me 

answers to question 

1. the week of klonpin was late September 19’. It did seem to pull me out of a manic state, when I almost became voluntarily committed 

2. yes, never touched a drug during that period (used ambien and Xanax briefly in late 2012/2013 after boyfriends death, no issues that I can recall what so ever

3. I decreased the melatonin to 1.5 mg

4. I started glutamine maybe about 2 ish months ago since my GI and digestion had been insane since late July- GI has slowly improved and hoping my two days of Gabapentin don’t set it back (i noticed myself becoming constipated again with the Gabapentin. i had diarrhea for nearly 11 weeks starting in late June, things are finally calmed down from that, not perfect but much better, could have been the stress from dads heart attack/near death, could have been the drugs not sure) 

5. morning (or late morning) 11a ish I take 690mg omega 3s, a probiotic, 500mg glutamine. 

Night 12/1ish  I take 400mg magnesium glycinate, 1.5 melatonin, 7.5 remeron 

 

i stopped the vitamin D to see if things might change and to make things more simple. I seemed to get a little rest last night but very headachey this morning 

 Thank you so much for your continued support. No one in my support / community understands what I’m going through and my parents have essentially rejected me because of my situation. I’m holding on one minute at a time

[DD44]

Also should add i kbow the recommendation is cold bedroom but I notice I am chronically cold (was kind of always that way, liked sleeping in 72 ish even before all the began ) and need a Heater which I use and reports that I seem to like it better at about 72/73 (it’s what the heater says temp is at but room may be colder. Without that I would shiver. 

[elbee]

Hi DD44,

 

I hear that you're "not doing well" and I've been there . . . it's not at all easy and it can be really scary. For me, it was like being caught in a spider's web, and anything I did to try and get "uncaught" from that web only made it feel tighter. This website and the wonderful people here helped me find a way to get "uncaught" and I fully believe you can find that here for yourself, too.

 

11 hours ago, DD44 said:

I am just still really wondering about the Mirt. I am guessing it is dangerous at this point for me to go off it quick when its been nine days reinstated? it was reinstated after almost 4 months off just for reference. I ask because last night it almost felt like after i took it it made me wide awake even more. i take it around 1 (was close to my normal bedtime two years ago) and then i found myself really alert, i definitely stayed calm though from maybe 3-7, i have these things like daydreams, but not real dreams. then i would say from maybe 9am- 1ish i had some mild percieved drowsiness, but that was all. iv just seen some info on paradoxical effect and worry i could be doing that to myself with the Mirt or just creating something else to get off of for little to no reason. the only thing i wonder is if the Mirt 7.5 is whats keeping my mood calm and kind of muted. i dont currently have a lot of physical symptoms, mostly muscle pain, pain around eyes (all of which i know would sort out if i was getting even a couple hours of rest eachnight) i dont want to do anything stupid and make myself worse off.

 

You could abruptly stop taking the mirtazapine right now, that is fully your choice. Everything you do with regards to your body is YOUR CHOICE. Others, even doctors and "experts" can only make recommendations. What the folks here are recommending is that you simply hold for now . . . not make any drug changes. Going back to the spider web analogy, we are recommending you "stop squirming / struggling" and let your body and brain settle for a time. If you "cold turkey" the mirtazapine at this point, you may feel better the next day . . . or you may feel worse. The day after that, you may feel better or you may feel worse. But because you have so much stuff going on right now, you can't know how much the "better" or "worse" had anything to do with getting off the mirtazapine, or if it was one of the other many drugs or supplement you've been wrestling with. Just based on my own experience and on what I see here, my guess is that after a few days off being off the mirtazapine, you would be questioning if getting off was the wrong decisions and whether you should go back on . . . and the cycle of drug re-injury continues. Again, the recommendation most on this site I think would give you is to hold.

 

11 hours ago, DD44 said:

when i tried to call my birth mother today and speak with her she basically just screamed at me, told me my father and her are sick of me, told me she doesnt want to talk to me and to leave her alone. really painful, really hurts in ways i cant convey.

 

1 hour ago, DD44 said:

No one in my support / community understands what I’m going through and my parents have essentially rejected me because of my situation. I’m holding on one minute at a time

 

For your birth mother to scream at you and tell you that she and your father are sick of you is not OK, and it's not going to be helpful to you in the healing process you are going through right now. I don't know your history with your family of course, but from what you said here, it seems clear to me that your mom is NOT part of your "support team" in this situation. In my healing / recovery process, it was important for me to realize that while I believed there were those in my life (some of my family members and those I called friends) who were SUPPOSED to be supportive of me, they were in fact not supportive of me. It was really difficult, but I had to find ways to stop trying to draw water from dry wells. Again, this website is one of the places I turned to for support as I was letting go of trying to seek support from those that were not available to support me.

 

I think "one minute at a time" is a really sound approach. My own healing has involved learning to tune into my body and find small, "next best steps" of things I could do to feel somewhat better. Sometimes it was as simple as deep breathing or a cup of tea. But each time I took those small steps, I was building internal trust that I could find an internally driven path towards healing.

[DD44]

@elbee your words really spoke to me. And as someone who got off remeron, it gives me some hope. I should pray that I will be able to sleep unaided again one day. 

 

I appreciate you validating that what my mother said was wrong. She has a history of abandoning me when things are tough (she left me and moved away when I was 13) I guess I have to say she did the best she could but sometimes it really just feels she puts herself and her feelings before my own.. I am not sure how to come to a place of acceptance about it.

 

i think what I’m most scared of is this whole experience stopping me from creating a life for myself. Iv had basically a very late start. Really struggled to be on my own and still am (living with some people who cut me a big break rent wise) I had a flimsy career for ten years in fitness and now it seems going back to that may not be a option. I finished a degree in 2018 (it’s why I began the meds, to sleep to be able to function at school) at the age of 32, now a year later I’m doing nothing with the degree work wise for the obvious reason. I just want to feel good enough to get my feet on the ground and earn income.. I’m not sure how or doing what and at my age this scares me and makes me feel horrible that I’m not there and now I’m in this mess. Just figured I’d share with everyone and get it off my chest.. it’s a huge source of low self esteem, anger, anxiety, depression... i know I need a good therapist but haven’t found one at the moment since I’m mentally spent and never know how I’ll feel each day.. I don’t want to let this thing take me down, some days it feels it already has in certain ways. Any words of encouragement are appreciated. Thank you again for your sincere message, it helped me this morning 

[elbee]

1 hour ago, DD44 said:

I appreciate you validating that what my mother said was wrong. She has a history of abandoning me when things are tough (she left me and moved away when I was 13) I guess I have to say she did the best she could but sometimes it really just feels she puts herself and her feelings before my own.. I am not sure how to come to a place of acceptance about it.

 

Hi DD44,

 

I’m glad some of what I said was useful. With regards to family and past wounding, Adult Children of Alcoholic and Dysfunctional Families (ACA) has become an important part of my healing process. I don’t know if this program is applicable, but you mentioned working with a therapist which I have done at times, too. The ACA program can be a good compliment or supplement to therapy for some of those who grew up with dysfunction in their childhood. 

[Shep]

21 hours ago, DD44 said:

@Shep Hi and than you for helping me 

answers to question 

1. the week of klonpin was late September 19’. It did seem to pull me out of a manic state, when I almost became voluntarily committed 

2. yes, never touched a drug during that period (used ambien and Xanax briefly in late 2012/2013 after boyfriends death, no issues that I can recall what so ever

3. I decreased the melatonin to 1.5 mg

4. I started glutamine maybe about 2 ish months ago since my GI and digestion had been insane since late July- GI has slowly improved and hoping my two days of Gabapentin don’t set it back (i noticed myself becoming constipated again with the Gabapentin. i had diarrhea for nearly 11 weeks starting in late June, things are finally calmed down from that, not perfect but much better, could have been the stress from dads heart attack/near death, could have been the drugs not sure) 

5. morning (or late morning) 11a ish I take 690mg omega 3s, a probiotic, 500mg glutamine. 

Night 12/1ish  I take 400mg magnesium glycinate, 1.5 melatonin, 7.5 remeron 

 

i stopped the vitamin D to see if things might change and to make things more simple. I seemed to get a little rest last night but very headachey this morning 

 Thank you so much for your continued support. No one in my support / community understands what I’m going through and my parents have essentially rejected me because of my situation. I’m holding on one minute at a time

 

Thank you for your answers to these questions. Because of your recent changes such as the decreased melatonin and vitamin D, you may want to hold for a few days and see if you stabilize some.

 

Whether or not you'll want to come off the glutamine right now is unclear. You may see enough stability with these other changes and find that the glutamine is more helpful with your GI symptoms than harmful by causing other symptoms. 

 

I'm having a very hard time reading your signature. Would you be able to put it in a more linear format? We don't need any background information. Here is an example:

 

On 7/19/2011 at 11:31 AM, Altostrata said:

Example:

2001–2002 paroxetine 
2003  citalopram 
2004  paroxetine
2008  paroxetine slow taper down to 2016 Aug off paroxetine
2016  citalopram May 20mg  Oct slow taper down
2018  citalopram 13 Feb 4.6mg 15 Mar 4.4mg 29 Apr 4.2mg

 

A direct link to your signature is here:

 

Account - Setting - Create or Update Your Signature 

 

It's very important to have this information in a clear format so we don't mistakenly give you the wrong tapering advice based on a mis-read of your signature. 

[DD44]

I just now tried to clean it up but it’s still messy because what my doc has done with me has been very messy 

[Altostrata]

DD, let's try to reformat your sleep. The normal human sleep cycle is from nightfall to sunrise. Going to bed at 1 a.m. is very far from this.

 

The best use of melatonin to start the sleep cycle is to take it at nightfall. At this time of year, you can call this 9 p.m. Since your natural cycle is triggered by darkness, then you'd turn off all the lights and get off all computers. You don't have to get into bed right then, you might try going to bed at 10 p.m. or 11 p.m. in your very dark, coolish bedroom. Then you get up at maybe 8 a.m. and be sure to go out and get some natural light on your face and body. This helps reset the sleep cycle.

 

What time of night are you taking mirtazapine? 1 a.m. might be too late.

[DD44]

@Altostrata @elbee @Shep hi guys. im sorry im still having trouble understand how this site works in terms of when i make a post how do you guys see it without me tagging you? im now on day 10/11? of 7.5 mirt and starting to get the debilitating joint pain that i remember i had when i was originally on it (its what made me stop my career as a personal trainer). i dont know what to do. last night i dont feel like i slept, if i did it wasnt perceived. i go into this state where i am not awake but dont feel asleep, feels like no deep sleep and then its very hard to even get up or move in the morning. couldnt get up untill noon after meditating for 30 minutes which did make me drowsy. the night before that was the only other night i did have perceived deep sleep other than the first might i reinstated. i cant deal with this horrible joint pain. im wondering if the Mirt 7.5 is doing anything for my mood during the day. i feel a lack of anxiety even though i am frustrated. i am depressed but i know i am because of whats going on. just dont know what to do. i am trying to hard to not make any change. 

[Altostrata]

If that's a familiar adverse reaction to mirtazapine, you might reduce to 7mg and see if that helps.

 

You may need to cope with mood issues while your nervous system stabilized from drug changes. See

 

The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

Neuro-emotions

 

Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms

 

Easing your way into meditation for a stressed-out nervous system

 

Music for self-care: calms hyperalertness, anxiety, aids relaxation and sleep

 

Ways to cope with daily anxiety

 

Please review this:

57 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

DD, let's try to reformat your sleep. The normal human sleep cycle is from nightfall to sunrise. Going to bed at 1 a.m. is very far from this.

 

The best use of melatonin to start the sleep cycle is to take it at nightfall. At this time of year, you can call this 9 p.m. Since your natural cycle is triggered by darkness, then you'd turn off all the lights and get off all computers. You don't have to get into bed right then, you might try going to bed at 10 p.m. or 11 p.m. in your very dark, coolish bedroom. Then you get up at maybe 8 a.m. and be sure to go out and get some natural light on your face and body. This helps reset the sleep cycle.

 

What time of night are you taking mirtazapine? 1 a.m. might be too late.