DD44: please help, currently on mirtazapine and gabapentin

[DD44]

@Altostrata I’m doing ok. Just plugging along. Going at a much slower pace than I had hoped for but as long as I am slowly reducing then I guess I will have to live with the slowness 

[DD44]

@Altostrata @elbee @Shep hi guys been a long while

 

i hate that I’m reaching out but I’m a bit worried and scared not sure what to do.

 

I had been reducing since I last checked in, very slowly, everything was going fine. Then about a week or so ago I said I wanted to take a break from reduction just because. Now all the sudden I’m having issues every evening. Things not working. Iv really gotten into positive thinking and I keep telling myself this is just a bump in the road and things will get back to normal. Do I need to bump my dose back up significantly? I have a higher responsibility job now. I had the goal of moving to Las Vegas (and financially able) because things are going so well. Not sure what’s up and why I’m having back to back issues out of no where. My pills usually weight .080 and I had scratched down to .066 ... please any help would be appreciated 

 

my life really is going so well.. 

[ChessieCat]

8 minutes ago, DD44 said:

I have a higher responsibility job now.

 

When did this happen in relation to the symptoms worsening?

 

Have you missed a dose?

 

Have you changed brands?

 

Alcohol, antibiotics, illness?  Any other stressors?

[elbee]

@ChessieCat asked some really important questions, all important considerations that may be effecting what's going on.

It also seems clear to me that as soon as you decided to take a break from the taper, things flared up. I'm wondering if there is something inside of you that doesn't trust you will continue with the taper again if you take a break? You decided to take a break from the reduction, "just because." Maybe there is more to it than that? Perhaps you taking on a "higher responsibility job" has something to do with this "just because" pause you are making with the reduction? Personally, I had to "negotiate" between parts of myself that desperately wanted to get off the drugs, and parts of myself that were terrified to get off the drugs. It sounded like you had found a good "compromise" pace these past few months, one that was working well for you. Perhaps you are going through a "check-in" process with your taper pace at this point?

[DD44]

@ChessieCat

my job isn’t high stress at all. It’s a wonderful job where I’m treated so well. Lol I hang out with a 8 year old all day (nanny) I guess I meant to say that I don’t want anything messing it up. 
 

I don’t ever recall missing a dose 

I have not been sick 

I have not changed brands 

I don’t ever drink alcohol 

 

I’m the least stressed Iv ever been. My financial situation is so healthy and Iv made leaps towards my other personal goals. Just one week ago I told someone I felt more at peace then I ever had. And I meant it it. It was then that I noticed some issues, I was waking after only 3,4 hrs? Now all the sudden I’m just having back to back nights that aren’t good at all. I can feel it bringing me down physically a good bit. Trying to start positive. 
i did add a new vitamin but it’s been in the mix for maybe 1-2 months almost, long before this.

 

I did switch brands of melatonin and went from .75 to 1mg just because I though it seemed annoying to be cutting up melatonin ... I’ll go back to my old brand ... 

 

 

[DD44]

@elbee please read my most recent response to @ChessieCat

[DD44]

I think I more decided to take a break because o saw little signs that I was having a issue (early waking) my goal was to stay where I was at dose wise till my body could make it through a whole night without a wake. But now all the sudden it’s like multiple wakes and can’t get back down or last night was almost a 0... and that was back with no good nights since maybe a week ago. 
 

last night I had that phenomenon I used to experience where I go into a VERY light rest and have extreme strong vivid dreams. It isn’t pleasant. I may be getting nervous about my big move in February subconiously but Iv been planning it now for months and my finances are extremely healthy .. consciously Iv been SO excited to move . I only got nervous this week when I started having this issue because I thought I was doing so well and then I wondered what if this were to happen during my drive across the country. But let me tell u just a week ago and every week before that had been amazing- Iv been doing so well I was so grateful and happy all the time. This is out of no where 

[Altostrata]

You're tapering Remeron? How much in milligrams are you taking now? At what point did your sleep start to break up? How much total sleep do you get per night? How often do you have bad nights?

 

More melatonin is not necessarily better for sleep.

 

Many people find fish oil and magnesium supplements helpful, see
https://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/36-king-of-supplements-omega-3-fatty-acids-fish-oil/
https://survivingantidepressants.org/topic/15483-magnesium-natures-calcium-channel-blocker/

 

You might try a little bit of one at a time to see how it affects you.

 

 

[DD44]

@Altostrata I wasn’t really measuring my pills by milligram I was just scratching .001 whenever I felt stable and ready and it was working fine since February. Iv noticed disruption for about a week now, every night, last night was nearly zero. I even noticed that I didn’t get the drowsy feeling I usually do two hours after I ingest my med. I didn’t up to melatonin to try to help I upped it because I was tired of cutting 3mg into quarters so I figured just doing 1mg wasn’t a big difference. I already take magnesium glycinate everyday but not fish oil. I am currently at .066 when my pills weight .077-.078 to start. I ordered a new scale for hopes of better precision and am seriously considering going up to maybe .068 if things can’t iron out because I can’t take just 0 to 1-3 hr nights back to back like this. I was doing exceptionally well up until about 1-2 weeks ago. I’d say I noticed a difference 2 weeks ago but it was manageable and then the last 6-7 days have been not good. I will also be going back to the original brand of melatonin I was using at .75 miligram. Willing to do whatever necessary to get back on track as things were going really well and I was feeling very healthy almost always 

[Altostrata]

Most likely it's the anticipatory anxiety from your impending trip that's bothering you. You'll have to manage that, or tolerate getting by on a little less sleep until you make the trip.

[DD44]

Maybe so. But I hate living where I do. I hate Virginia. I can’t afford a one bedroom here. They cost 1600 minimum. Vegas should be a much better fit for me. Better cost of living, sunny always like I like. But yes I will be walking away from my job, but it (my job) also might be ending right around the time I’m supposed to move. I don’t like the people I live with, o have no friends here, my parents don’t cafe about me at all. Yet despite all that I v remained happy and hopeful for my future, and made a lot of progress on personal goals.

I cannot get by on how my nights are right now. Also I just saw muddles story and it made me very sad. 

[marie123]

Hi DD. I've found your posts. You know whenever I've got things on my mind my sleep gets screwed up. This was ever before I was taking any medications. Are you still taking magnesium? I used to take CALM magnesium and that helped me sleep. It's a powder you mix with water. I like hot baths with a few drops of lavender oil. It makes me sleepy. Feel better soon. Marie.

[DD44]

Hi @marie123 thank you for your kind words. I do take magnesium glucinate every night w my med and my melatonin but have not tried the calm. I plan on a hot bath tonight and leaning into self care. Maybe try to forget about my move for a little, it’s not till February... and I don’t have to go then I just want to. The cold and rain here in VA makes me feel down. Sunny hot vegas with lights and a bunch of other things sounds great, but it’s a giant step in my life, never done something that big before so I hope everyone else is right and Iv just got some nerves about it. 
 

how is your life? Taper going ok? 

[marie123]

Hi DD. My taper is going okay since I started tapering with liquid. I tried the scale and I could not get a good reading. I have days that are decent, usually I feel the withdrawal stuff in the mornings. When I hold longer I feel better for sure. I am going really slow and that helps a lot. It is getting cold and rainy where I am but I like the change of seasons. Besides I really can't do much during COVID. Just trying to stay safe and lean into the taper. It is really my only priority right now. I have been to Vegas a couple times as a tourist and boy the weather there in the fall/winter is pretty great. Feel better. Marie.

[DD44]

@Shep @elbee @Altostrata I’m just reaching out again because I’m not well and starting be be a bit scared .... I really haven’t changed anything that I can think of ..... I don’t know what to do ...

[ChessieCat]

What are your current symptoms?

 

What symptoms have worsened?

 

What new symptoms do you have?

 

When did the symptoms worsen or appear?

 

Is it possible that you have missed a dose?

 

Have you been sick?

 

Have you taken antibiotics or started anything new, or stopped something that you had been taking (birth control?)?

 

Have you consumed any alcohol, caffeine (cola, energy drinks, strong and/or lots of coffee)?

 

Have you been exercising more than usual?

 

Do your symptoms seem to worse at a particular time of the month?   (I wondering if it could be related to your monthly cycle if that applies to you).

 

How have you been affected by the covid situation this year?  Has your work situation changed, financial, living arrangements (isolated or in close proximity to other people)?

[ChessieCat]

Are you still taking boswellia?

 

Some members have found that a supplement which had they had found helpful turns nasty on them down the track.

[DD44]

 

@ChessieCat
What are your current symptoms?

I simply am not able to get much rest (fall asleep) each night 

What symptoms have worsened?

once I’m not getting rest I get headache and just overall feel like ****. Start having some negative thoughts.

What new symptoms do you have?

see above, that is the only issue.

 

When did the symptoms worsen or appear?

The last two weeks or so. 

 

Is it possible that you have missed a dose? No 

 

Have you been sick? No 

 

Have you taken antibiotics or started anything new, or stopped something that you had been taking (birth control?)? No I did start a new supplement called “beef organs” but I started it over a month ago.

 

Have you consumed any alcohol, caffeine (cola, energy drinks, strong and/or lots of coffee)?

I usually had caffeine  everyday with no issue. I started cutting our caffeine the last couple days since the last week had been pretty bad. 

Have you been exercising more than usual? No 

 

Do your symptoms seem to worse at a particular time of the month?   (I wondering if it could be related to your monthly cycle if that applies to you). I don’t think so. 

 

How have you been affected by the covid situation this year?  Has your work situation changed, financial, living arrangements (isolated or in close proximity to other people)? No, actually I have benefitted. Iv never been more financially stable and I haven’t been too stressed about it. 

 

[DD44]

@ChessieCat

yes my supplement his currently is 

tumeric 

bowellia 

vitamin c 

magnesium glycinate 

 

beef organs (supposed to help with joints, energy, hair growth, gut health) started or a month or longer ago and was on for at least three weeks or so before any problems 

 

all the others Iv been on for almost a year 

[Gridley]

On 10/12/2020 at 4:21 PM, DD44 said:

t’s a giant step in my life, never done something that big before so I hope everyone else is right and Iv just got some nerves about it. 
 

That's what it sounds like to me.  Stressors (and moving is a big one) can make a huge difference in symptoms.  I know it does with me.    

[DD44]

@Gridley 

perhaps but Iv saved over 20k and am in a good position to do so but yes it is a lot of pressure. I wasn’t planning on moving till February and am under no obligation to do so. I don’t have to go in February I just don’t want to be in Virginia anymore. Sure it’s where I have always been but I don’t want to spend 1700 a month (and can’t afford that long term) to have my own apartment. Moving to a more affordable city had been something I have been very excited about. I don’t know why all the sudden my subconscious would be telling me otherwise.

Iv done tremendous planning and up until two weeks ago everything has been in alignment to follow through in February. Now I have to sort this out before I can do much of anything...

[Santino]

Hi DD44

It is true that our thoughts and life decisions somehow condition our  psychological feeling but i believe more in a  periodical change with periods where we are more prone to rumination. 

In my case during my taper i would face a problem at a particular day when i was in a kind of wave. Immediately i would treat that problem as the end of the world and i would get anxious on why these things were happening to me and so on. It would be really strange that the worry would not subside for some hours. Anyway i would continue and try to keep myself and my worry under control. Than at the evening i would go take the daily dose of Remeron and all the vits i would take and then after a good sleep that very same problem would not worry me any more. In this way i understood that the source of my worries was mainly the state of my brain in a particular day and not necessarily the problem itself. 

Once i understood this phenomenon i learned to control the things better. It is quite normal to have wave and windows during our tapering process. The main thing is to learn and live through them. In my case i was working hard during the window days to make up for being lazy, ruminative and anxious on the bad days.

I believe that if you understand your patterns, it would be a lot more easy for your to manage yourself.

By the way i am living a completely normal life currently and i am off from Mirtazapine for more than 2.5 years.  You can also read my success story.

All the best

Santino
 

[DD44]

@Altostrata you initially helped me stabilize many many months ago. I’d really like to know if you think I should go a little up in dose again. I don’t want to suffer like this (and like I did back then) again. I’m willing to put off my taper for the time being. I feel like hell. Please advise and thank you 

[DD44]

@Santino I will read your story later today thank you 

 

I suppose I am thinking of my big move a lot but so I can try not to think as much about it 

 

it’s is crazy to me how a couple good night of solid rest and I completely forget all problems 

 

a couple bad nights or in this case it’s been two week now of really messy nights and I’m feeling like life is ending again. It feels like if things go on like this I do not want to continue this life

 

but when I get my rest, wow I feel unstoppable and so amazingly grateful for the day. I wish there wasn’t such a swing ... 

[elbee]

I'm sorry you are struggling more right now, @DD44 

 

38 minutes ago, DD44 said:

Moving to a more affordable city had been something I have been very excited about. I don’t know why all the sudden my subconscious would be telling me otherwise.

 

I know when I don't have internal agreement on something, my anxiety skyrockets and my sleep is greatly effected. Tapering allows all of these effects to be heightened, and it can feel incredibly uncomfortable (to put it mildly). It sounds to me like some part of you is very scared about this decision (as Alto said, anticipatory anxiety), even though overall you may feel really excited. This type of internal disagreement is not uncommon, but again, during a taper, the effects can be more dramatic. In these situations, I have found it helpful to sit quietly and try to open up space for the part of me that is scared to come through more clearly so I can better understand it. I spent my whole life trying to push these types of fears away, and it's clear to me now that stuffing my feelings created a lot of the anxiety I experienced, and a lot of other difficult symptoms. 

 

What part of you is scared about this move and doesn't want to go? How is it that you can listen to that part of you, honor and respect it, and try to address some of the concerns/fears that arise when considering the move?

 

This is what I have been learning to do, and it's been helpful for me.

[Santino]

14 minutes ago, DD44 said:

@Santino I will read your story later today thank you 

 

I suppose I am thinking of my big move a lot but so I can try not to think as much about it 

 

it’s is crazy to me how a couple good night of solid rest and I completely forget all problems 

 

a couple bad nights or in this case it’s been two week now of really messy nights and I’m feeling like life is ending again. It feels like if things go on like this I do not want to continue this life

 

but when I get my rest, wow I feel unstoppable and so amazingly grateful for the day. I wish there wasn’t such a swing ... 

Hi DD44 

I completely relate and understand. It is like we have a trigger and on a specific day we might get anxious and ruminative. 

Now i have come to fully understand this pattern... and in time of stress i know that i will have a sleepless night, than the next day i will be somehow ok but still continue to be ruminative, if i have another bad night than the next day i will be more tired and insecure but the good thing is that in the end of the third day... my brain will be soooo tired it will stop ruminating and i would feel very calm before sleep. On that night i know for sure that i will have a good sleep and the next day i will be back in the unstoppable mode buddy.

Try to learn yourself with this pattern. It is the best you can do. And by experiencing this pattern you will also know that it is not actually the problem that worries you but your pattern of wave and windows. 

It is not easy to do it but it is doable buddy. 

All the best
Santino

[Altostrata]

When was your last drug change? What times of day are you taking your doses, how many milligrams each dose?

 

What is your sleep schedule? What are you thinking about as you're trying to sleep?

 

See

 

Tips to help sleep -- so many of us have that awful withdrawal insomnia

 

Path to Better Sleep FREE online for everyone from the US Veterans Administration

 

Music for self-care: Calms hyperalertness, anxiety, aids relaxation and sleep

 

What is the sleep cycle?

 

Melatonin for sleep: Many people find it helpful

 

TV or computer use in evening can disrupt sleep: Bright light signals the brain that it's daytime

 

White noise devices for sleep

[DD44]

@Altostrata 

When was your last drug change?

 

I decided to hold at .066 (6.4 mg) about two weeks ago because I was having waking episodes, things just went down from there 

 

What times of day are you taking your doses, how many milligrams each dose?

I take it around 1030p I went back up to .067 (6.5mg) the last couple days to see if it would help, no luck so far 

I’m in bed at 12 and just try to listen to the same night music I have listened to for months.. trying not to think 

 

What is your sleep schedule? What are you thinking about as you're trying to sleep?

I try not to think. Last night I sat up at 5a and wanted to cry but couldn’t really. I try to stay in bed from 12p-9a and that WAS working from December of 2019 until now with minimal hiccups ...

 

eveeyone on here seems to think I’m worrying about trying to move across the country more than I think I am ...

 

I have planned it extensively... perhaps not enough ..

 

[Altostrata]

Did you crush your tablets into powder? How old is the powder? How old are the tablets?

 

What is your exercise schedule? Do you use your phone or computer late at night?

[DD44]

@Altostrata
Did you crush your tablets into powder? How old is the powder? How old are the tablets?

no Iv just been doing the scratch and weight method because it’s the only thing that worked for me. It’s a new prescription so pills are not old. Should be same brand too.

 

What is your exercise schedule? Do you use your phone or computer late at night?

I only exercise when I’m up for it (it’s dropped off this week as I’m really not feeling well at this point), but I aim for cardio every other day which would usually be at 6pm since that’s the only time I can fit it in. I Do use my phone late, always have for the most part and it wasn’t a problem for many months so I guess I was getting away with that...not sure. 
 

Maldonado notable I’m cutting out caffeine until things are better... going to try to meditate and journal. But any other words of wisdom are greatly appreciated 

 

it’s frustrating because in the time between December and this month my life has really blossomed in a lot of ways and have been doing so well. Moving to a state where cost of living is better was kind of my final step in my independence and I really feel I’m prepared as well as one could be..

 

[Altostrata]

Did you read those links I gave you?

 

How much caffeine have you been ingesting daily?

 

1) Get at least a half-hour of gentle exercise, such as walking, every day. Do not do cardio at night.

2) Stop looking at your phone or computer by 9 p.m.

3) At 9 p.m., turn off all the lights, take 0.25mg melatonin.

4) Darken your bedroom with blackout shades and curtains, use a sleep mask.

[DD44]

@Altostrata

i will read them a little later when I have time to be present, although I do think Iv read them before 

 

as of right now I’m getting no caffeine 

before that I could have 1-2 cups with no issues 

 

I can follow the other stuff as close as possible 

would doing yoga at 6pm be okay? 
unfortunately I don’t really have time earlier in the day to get my exercise...

[Altostrata]

Yes, yoga is gentle and relaxing. Also be sure to get in 30 minutes each day of walking.

[DD44]

@Altostrata @elbee 
I just wanted to update everyone 

although I am not out of the woods yet but I am going to keep believing I will be soon

 

this hiccup has caused me to have a great breakthrough. I realize now that putting someone such as myself under the stress of driving across country alone is likely not wise. For this reason I believe I am going to change my plan to simply ship my car and fly to my new home (hopefully still in February) it’s a lot cheaper to do it this way and although I am a bit sad at the letting go of my dream to drive across and have that experience, I don’t want to put myself in danger and knowing that these hiccups could happen when I’m needing to drive long distances is likely not wise. Maybe this will help me relax a little to have this new plan. Just sharing. Thank you everyone who’s reached out today to help, I really hope I can report soon that I’m feeling much better 

[ChessieCat]

Shipping your car instead of driving sounds like an excellent idea.

 

Even if everything is going well regarding your move, there is still uncertainty.  My suggestion would be to try to do some regular relaxation throughout the day.  If you set a reminder and "check in with yourself" it can help to nip the stress/anxiety/tension in the bud instead of it building up.

[elbee]

2 hours ago, DD44 said:

I don’t want to put myself in danger and knowing that these hiccups could happen when I’m needing to drive long distances is likely not wise. Maybe this will help me relax a little to have this new plan.

 

@DD44 I think it's great you were able to listen to the part of yourself that had concerns, and bring those concerns into your plans moving forward. I hope this help you to relax, and helps with your sleep. Well done on the self-care! 👍 😉