HopeforHealing: seeking reinstatement advice

[HopeforHealing]

Hello SA,

 

As you can see from my signature, I have a long history of starting, stopping, and switching numerous drugs.  Largely due to SA, over the past month or so I have truly awoken to the dangers of these drugs, and I am devastated over what I now know they have done to my brain and body for the last nearly 18 years.  However, I do have faith that I will heal.

 

At age 17 I unwittingly walked right into Big Pharma’s lair and became ensnared when a psychiatrist prescribed me Effexor for OCD (which apparently should not even be a first-line treatment for OCD).  When I tried to fill it at a new pharmacy in my new state as a college freshman about 1.5 years later, I was told that my insurance would not fill the prescription because the dosage was too high (I don’t remember what it was). Frustrated, I decided to just stop taking it since it wasn’t helping me.  I didn’t know any better.  When withdrawal hit me, I contributed my symptoms to the cold turkey but didn’t fully understand I was experiencing withdrawal.  Over the next 15 years I went on and off multiple drugs to try to manage my OCD and accompanying depression, not fully realizing that my unsuccessful attempts to stop the drugs were due to tapering too quickly and subsequent withdrawal as opposed to relapse. 

 

In October of 2018 I was on 10 mg of Prozac and had been holding there for about a year while seeing a psychiatric nurse practitioner.  I was struggling at that dose, most likely due to delayed withdrawal from a too fast taper from 60 mg.  Due to my struggles, I decided to attend an outpatient OCD program where I foolishly allowed the attending psychiatrists to take me off the Prozac and put me on a cocktail of Abilify, Anafranil, and Luvox.  I did not notice any improvement with the cocktail over the 10mg of Prozac.  Once I discharged from the program three months later, I returned to seeing the psychiatric nurse practitioner.  He instructed me to cold turkey the Luvox (I had been taking 25 mg for 2.5 weeks).  I hesitated at the cold turkey approach but thought, "I've only been taking it 2.5 weeks."  He continued me at 5mg of Abilify and increased me from 75mg to 100mg of Anafranil.  At my next visit one month later, I said I would like to discontinue the Abilify and Anafranil as they were not helpful.  His instructions were to cut the 5mg Abilify pills in half for 6 days and stop.  This seemed too fast to me, but he told me that anti-psychotics do not need to be tapered as slowly as anti-depressants.  Regarding the Anafranil, I was to take 50 mg for one week, 25 mg for one week, then stop.  This seemed too fast to me as well, but I told myself that it was still a taper and not a true cold turkey.  I couldn’t have been more wrong.

 

I am here now because I have found myself in “one of the worst places to be during withdrawal”, according to @brassmonkey in his Reinstatement post.  I am seriously considering reinstatement after 8 months off of all drugs because I am completely non-functional, and my symptoms have only gotten worse during this time period.  What concerns me perhaps the most is that I have not experienced any windows since my last dose.  I want to believe that I am healing, but it feels I've only deteriorated over the last 8 months.

 

From what I’ve read here on SA, I understand that reinstatement may or may not work and may even cause an adverse reaction since I’ve been drug-free for so long.  Even so, I would sincerely appreciate any advice on reinstatement (for or against) in regards to my particular situation.  Also, if I were to reinstate, which drug should I reinstate?  I was on Luvox for 2.5 weeks and both Abilify and Anafranil for approximately 4 months.  Before that, I was on Prozac (on and off at various times) for 13+ years.  So although Abilify and Anafranil were my most recent drugs, perhaps it is Prozac that my brain and body are most used to?  

 

I am grateful for any advice, suggestions, and encouragement.

 

Peace, Love, and Faith,

HopeforHealing

[Altostrata]

Welcome, HfH.

 

I am sorry you've had such a terrible time with excessive psychiatric prescription.

 

What are your symptoms now? Do they follow any daily pattern? How's your sleep?

[HopeforHealing]

Hello Altostrata!

 

Thank you so much for your reply and for everything that you do.

 

I had a few acute withdrawal symptoms that were very tolerable and resolved within a few weeks after my last dose (brain shivers when I moved my head and/or eyes too fast and possibly some dizziness as well - hard to remember the details at this point).  The excruciating protracted withdrawal symptoms started to set in about two weeks after my last dose.  My current symptoms are as follows:

 

severe depression, apathy, anhedonia, feeling disconnected, no interest in life, difficulty getting out of bed, low energy, malaise, no motivation, shame and guilt, hard on myself, stuck in the past 

severely reduced ability to handle any sort of challenge or stress, extreme difficulty in handling day-to-day affairs

diminished cognitive abilities: learning, comprehension, concentration, some memory issues, decision-making (tremendous difficulty making decisions and making poor decisions)

difficulty starting and completing tasks

anxiety, fear, amplified OCD 

suicidal thoughts

reduced appetite

amenorrhea - my periods have alway been irregular, but I have only had 1 period lasting 2 days in the last 8 months - I am currently taking bio-identical bi-est and progesterone creams for this (I will add this to my drug signature)

strange but tolerable while sleeping or in bed: numbness/tingling in hands/arms (especially if they are crossed over my body), occasional leg cramping, occasional weird pain in heels, once noticed electrical fire smell in nose

 

To summarize, I feel like a complete zombie and shell of a human being.  I am mostly bedbound and housebound due to the severity of my symptoms.  I have not noticed any sort of daily pattern to my symptoms aside from increased feelings of anxiety and fear in the mornings upon waking and the physical symptoms that occur while sleeping/in bed.  The psychological, emotional, and cognitive symptoms plague me constantly, and I have no reprieve.  I don't believe I have experienced any windows in 8 months.  Fortunately, I am usually able to sleep alright.

 

Prozac reinstatement has worked for me several times in the past even after being drug-free for several months.  However, my withdrawal was never this severe when I reinstated previously.  What are your thoughts on reinstatement in my situation, and which drug would it be best to reinstate if I did reinstate?  

 

Thank you so much for your help, @Altostrata.

 

[Altostrata]

What is your sleep pattern?

 

It's very hard to see what type of reinstatement might help, you've been on so many drugs and had iatrogenic problems from such a young age.

 

What effect do you feel from L-Tyrosine and the Vitamin B complex? What time of day do you take vitamin D3? Why 2 Brazil nuts, are you low in selenium?

 

 

[HopeforHealing]

Hi Altostrata,

 

I try to go to bed by 10:30 pm, but I am not consistent with this.  Last night I went to bed a little after midnight.  If I have to use the restroom during the night I can usually fall back asleep fairly easily.  My wake times seem to vary (I usually don't use an alarm).  Could be any time between 5 am - 8 am, but then I usually try to go back to sleep for longer.  Many times I try to sleep as long as possible because it just feels too painful to be awake.  Many mornings I may not get out of bed until 10 am - 12 pm (I may or may not be able to sleep this long).  I sometimes take afternoon naps as well that may last between 30 minutes to 2 hours or so.  I sleep so much because 1) I constantly have low energy and 2) it's an escape from the pain.

 

I've been taking the L-Tyrosine for about a month and have never felt any effects.  No effects from the B complex as well.  Previously (from March to August or so) I took MethylProtect https://www.xymogen.com/formulas/products/122 as a methyl folate supplement as I've had a genetic test done showing I am heterozygous for MTHFR A1298C (I am normal for MTHFR C677T).  It didn't help, so I just started taking regular B vitamins.  I've been taking 2,000 IU of D3 during the day and 2,000 at night, although yesterday I took only 2,000 during the day (early afternoon) as I thought I would start reducing/eliminating my supplements to see if that might make a difference for me.  I don't know if I'm low on selenium or not.  I've just been taking the Brazil nuts for thyroid support as I know there are links between thyroid health and depression.

 

I began taking supplements and the Brazil nuts the day after my last dose in an attempt to ease my transition off drugs.  I have not noticed any effects, positive or negative, with any of them.  As I mentioned above, I thought I might reduce or eliminate them all together to see if that would be helpful as I've read here on SA that they might be too much for me right now.  Is this something you might suggest?

 

 

 

 

[Altostrata]

I would not take D3 at night, it's a daytime vitamin-hormone.

 

Some would find L-Tyrosine and B vitamins to be activating -- causing anxiety, etc.

 

Heterozygous MTHFR is extremely common, it's not abnormal. Fresh green leafy vegetables will give you all the folate you need.

 

While selenium is an important co-factor for thyroid health, it's possible to get too much selenium from Brazil nuts. Excess selenium can cause unpleasant symptoms. I would be careful about supplementing selenium. Next time you get a blood test, you might test whole blood selenium level to see if you really need it. (Here in Northern California, our vegetables already contain plenty of selenium.)

 

Yes, I would minimize supplements because they can cause reactions in people who are very sensitive.

 

Are you getting at least 30 minutes a day of gentle exercise, particularly walking, and getting some natural light?

[HopeforHealing]

I am not getting enough exercise or natural light.  I will make more of an effort to get out of the house as difficult as that is for me right now.  I have an upcoming appointment with my PCP and was going to ask for some blood tests for vitamins, minerals, amino acids, etc. and will ask for whole blood selenium level.  Do you recommend getting anything else checked?  Also, how carefully do I need to taper supplements?  I don't think I am particularly sensitive to them since I haven't really seen positive or negative effects when taking them.

 

Regarding reinstatement, I can certainly see how most recently being on 4 different drugs over the course of 4 months makes things complicated.  Does my convoluted history make it too risky to try?   

 

Thank you so much again for all your time and help, Alto.  🙏

[Katy398]

Hi @HopeforHealing

I do not feel qualified to answer any of your questions about supplements or reinstating. My decision not to reinstate was my own decision and was purely because I didn’t want to take the risk. I will never know if it was the right decision. I do know there are some folk on here who reinstate beautifully and others who didn’t. 

I will say that walking has helped me tremendously. It gives me a good 2 hours respite from my anxiety which is so valuable. Anxiety plagues me for the rest of my waking hours. It was really  tough at the beginning but I was so desperate that I forced myself and now it is a habit along with mindfulness. I do like headspace mindfulness, purely because it logs continuous usage. For me it was worth the money because, like you my apathy lack of motivation are hard to overcome. 

Hang on in there @HopeforHealingwhat ever decision you make SA will support you.

take care Kx

[HopeforHealing]

Hi Katy,

 

Thank you so much for your input and for visiting my thread!  Alto suggested walking as well, so I will definitely need to do more of that.  Are you referring to the phone app Headspace?  It's been mentioned to me before, and I think I checked it out but didn't spend much time with it.  Perhaps I should give it another go.  I am glad it is helping you.  So you find it helps with your apathy and lack of motivation?  Have you noticed any changes or patterns regarding those symptoms?  Any gradual improvements?     

[Katy398]

Hi @HopeforHealing

The phone app headspace helps my motivation to do mindfulness it’s not yet filtered into the rest of my life,  but early days. I can’t say I notice any changes in symptoms it’s hard I get a window and I think things are shifting then a massive wave knocks me off my feet. Walking and mindfulness are the only constants in my life, the rest is an absolute mess. 

Hang on in there apparently we all heal eventually.

take care Kx

 

[HopeforHealing]

Hi @Altostrata,

 

I know how busy you are tending to the wounded flock, so I was not sure if you were able to read my post from Friday:

On 10/18/2019 at 3:14 PM, HopeforHealing said:

I am not getting enough exercise or natural light.  I will make more of an effort to get out of the house as difficult as that is for me right now.  I have an upcoming appointment with my PCP and was going to ask for some blood tests for vitamins, minerals, amino acids, etc. and will ask for whole blood selenium level.  Do you recommend getting anything else checked?  Also, how carefully do I need to taper supplements?  I don't think I am particularly sensitive to them since I haven't really seen positive or negative effects when taking them.

 

Regarding reinstatement, I can certainly see how most recently being on 4 different drugs over the course of 4 months makes things complicated.  Does my convoluted history make it too risky to try?   

 

Thank you so much again for all your time and help, Alto.  🙏

Perhaps reinstating a microdose such as 0.5mg of Prozac may be worth a shot even at 8 months out?  Prozac just seems to be the least dangerous of the 4 drugs I was on most recently and what I was on for the longest period of time.  Reinstatement has also worked for me in the past at typical starting doses, even months out from the last dose.  I suppose I'm asking: Alto, what would you do in my shoes?  ☺️  Again, many thanks, Alto!  I sincerely appreciate and respect your input.

 

[PoetJester]

Hi HopeforHealing

 

 

If you are thinking about reinstating, you could try reading Bellatrix's introductory thread for tips.   She had stopped, i think it was Lexapro, that she had been on for 16 years and went into withdrawal.   

 

Her thread is an older thread from a couple of years back, but she had had success microdosing with very tiny doses, like .04 mg of Lexapro, and tiltrating up for several weeks until she got to .4 mg and at that point noticed most of her symptoms go away.   In her thread she had mentioned how she had originally tried reinstating at 5 mg and after a few days had a severe reaction with major fatigue and stopped the drug again, but then some months later started microdosing and had success.  You have to go through to towards the end of her thread to get to the part about the microdosing success, but it is pretty inspiring and hopeful. 

 

Poetjester (Derek)

[Cooper1968]

On 10/17/2019 at 12:14 PM, HopeforHealing said:

Hello Altostrata!

 

Thank you so much for your reply and for everything that you do.

 

I had a few acute withdrawal symptoms that were very tolerable and resolved within a few weeks after my last dose (brain shivers when I moved my head and/or eyes too fast and possibly some dizziness as well - hard to remember the details at this point).  The excruciating protracted withdrawal symptoms started to set in about two weeks after my last dose.  My current symptoms are as follows:

 

severe depression, apathy, anhedonia, feeling disconnected, no interest in life, difficulty getting out of bed, low energy, malaise, no motivation, shame and guilt, hard on myself, stuck in the past 

severely reduced ability to handle any sort of challenge or stress, extreme difficulty in handling day-to-day affairs

diminished cognitive abilities: learning, comprehension, concentration, some memory issues, decision-making (tremendous difficulty making decisions and making poor decisions)

difficulty starting and completing tasks

anxiety, fear, amplified OCD 

suicidal thoughts

reduced appetite

amenorrhea - my periods have alway been irregular, but I have only had 1 period lasting 2 days in the last 8 months - I am currently taking bio-identical bi-est and progesterone creams for this (I will add this to my drug signature)

strange but tolerable while sleeping or in bed: numbness/tingling in hands/arms (especially if they are crossed over my body), occasional leg cramping, occasional weird pain in heels, once noticed electrical fire smell in nose

 

To summarize, I feel like a complete zombie and shell of a human being.  I am mostly bedbound and housebound due to the severity of my symptoms.  I have not noticed any sort of daily pattern to my symptoms aside from increased feelings of anxiety and fear in the mornings upon waking and the physical symptoms that occur while sleeping/in bed.  The psychological, emotional, and cognitive symptoms plague me constantly, and I have no reprieve.  I don't believe I have experienced any windows in 8 months.  Fortunately, I am usually able to sleep alright.

 

Prozac reinstatement has worked for me several times in the past even after being drug-free for several months.  However, my withdrawal was never this severe when I reinstated previously.  What are your thoughts on reinstatement in my situation, and which drug would it be best to reinstate if I did reinstate?  

 

Thank you so much for your help, @Altostrata.

 

Dear warrior,

I needed to respond to you because I too had the numbness while my arms were crossed!  No one would believe me. My psych dr was

prescribing every other week a new med or upped the dose and and stopped one abruptly.  He cut my pristique in 1/2 and started me on remron, as well as trazadone, ability. I was still in withdrawal from the above taper when he did all this.  Somewhere in there he threw in cymbalta @ 90mg and suddenly stopped. Tried me on Prozac and I couldn’t sleep or eat, it was a horrible experience.  
 

I was in the hole of dispair, off work and finally t he reinstated my cymbalta to 90mg. That was it!  That weekend I ended up in the psych ward, for 6 weeks.  Had 11 rounds of ect as well as med changes etc. 

 

I experienced everyone one of those feelings you mention above.  If was the worse ****in time of my life.  I went to group therapy, many groups and a psychologist.  
 

10 months off of work, and in my 5th month of tapering off of cymbalta (the right way, very slow).  
 

now my eyes are open to what these drugs have done to me and my family.  When you’re in the deep hole, remember there is always something that will reach out to you.  
 

keep REMinding yourself that you won’t let big PHARMA win over you.  
 

nancy

 

ps -

I’ve been back to work for 4 months now and loving it. 

it is possible. 

Edited October 23, 2019 by Altostrata
deleted duplicate quote

[Altostrata]

In what parts of your body do you feel pain? How has your symptom pattern changed since February?

 

What was the effect of Prozac the last time you took it?

[HopeforHealing]

Hi @PoetJester,

 

Thank you so much for referring me to Bellatrix's thread!  She was 8 months out from her last dose as I am.  It is very encouraging that she had a successful reinstatement with microdosing - and man, did she start with tiny doses!  I'd love to know how she's doing now.  Do you know of any others who had similar success with reinstatement more than 3 months out?

 

You've had quite the journey!  How are you doing now?

[HopeforHealing]

Hi @Cooper1968,

 

Thank you so much for your encouraging message!  Yes, the tingling/numbness when my arms are crossed is a strange symptom!  I came across one other member who mentioned that symptom as well, but I unfortunately can't remember who it was.  So glad to hear that you are back at work and loving it after all you've been through.  I am holding onto hope that there is a fulfilling life on the other side of this withdrawal.

[HopeforHealing]

5 hours ago, Altostrata said:

In what parts of your body do you feel pain? How has your symptom pattern changed since February?

 

What was the effect of Prozac the last time you took it?

  

Hi Alto, I'm not really experiencing any physical pain.  One to two weeks after my last doses of Abilify and Anafranil in February, I had brain shivers and I think some dizziness, but that resolved within a week or two.  From the beginning of March to the beginning of April, very severe psychological, emotional, and cognitive symptoms quickly developed, and they have not let up since.  I have had no windows to speak of.  If anything, I feel like my symptoms have been getting worse over the past two months or so, particularly in regards to executive functioning, stress intolerance, motivation, apathy, anhedonia, and decreased appetite. 

 

I believe you are asking the effect of Prozac when I last reinstated?  To the best of my memory: In 2012, I had been off Prozac and Wellbutrin for maybe about 4-5 months.  I noticed my OCD coming back and increased depression and anxiety.  When I reinstated both at typical starting doses, I experienced no adverse effects and stabilized over the course of a few months, eventually titrating up to 60mg Prozac and 300mg Wellbutrin.  During 2016-2017, over perhaps an 8 month period or so, I tapered both these drugs myself to make them last longer due to an insurance change and not having a new provider to keep up with my scripts.  I think I tapered down to maybe 20mg Prozac and 150mg Wellbutrin and may have also been skipping days.  I did not experience withdrawal during this taper.  When I found a new doctor to renew my scripts, I started taking 60mg Prozac and 300mg Wellbutrin again.  After a few days, I experienced a profound sense of emptiness.  At first I thought it could be due to switching generics, but then I realized I probably overdid the doses.  I was able to stabilize at lower doses within a matter of weeks. 

[oops44]

at 8 months out, you're going to have a hard time getting anyone here to tell you definitively what you should or if you should reinstate.  that far from your last dose puts you in a kind of limbo-ish gray area unfortunately.  its a tough decision that only you can make.  my take on it is this:  we all do what we must to get through this and there is certainly no shame in micro dosing up to a stabilizing amount, however its tough for any of us to know which drug would be your best option.  it would also be a shame to lose those 8 months clean, but with that said I dont really know how bad its been for you these last 8 months.  I think its a question of functionality.  do you think with the right motivation and the right coping tools that you could learn to function as you are until you begin to improve?

[HopeforHealing]

@oops44, thank you so much for your very thoughful response.  I need to really examine whether or not I think I can push through with the right motivation and coping tools.  Too bad lack of motivation is one of my toughest symptoms!  😂 Oh, how cruel!

 

You mention it would be a shame to lose 8 months clean.  I agree with that, but here's an interesting question: Considering there's no adverse reaction, does a low-dose reinstatement actually reverse healing that's taken place?  I'd love to know @Altostrata's take on this as well as that of other moderators and members.  Alto, would it be best to ask this question in your "About reinstating" thread?

[oops44]

19 minutes ago, HopeforHealing said:

Considering there's no adverse reaction, does a low-dose reinstatement actually reverse healing that's taken place?

 

thats a good question.  seems youve managed to keep a sharp mind through all of this.  some aren't so lucky.  I dont know the answer to that but I assume its possible.  my thinking on the whole matter is you have to go with whichever option has the greatest chance of increasing your quality of life.  every other consideration is secondary.

[HopeforHealing]

Thank you so much for the sharp mind compliment, @oops44.  I really needed to hear that as it seems my cognitive abilities have been completely decimated by this WD.  

[oops44]

I know its a tough choice to have to make.  hopefully your living situation is such that you have time to make an informed decision without being rushed.  sometimes life has a way of forcing us into making rash decisions and I hope that isn't the case with you.  know that youll have support here regardless which way you choose to go.

 

22 minutes ago, HopeforHealing said:

I really needed to hear that as it seems my cognitive abilities have been completely decimated by this WD.  

 

oh you're quite coherent and seem to be keeping your cool well enough.  that will serve you well getting through this.  sometimes people come here pretty freaked out (which is totally understandable) and there isn't much you can do to help them until they calm down.  

 

also,  your intro thread is as good a place as any to ask alto and the mods your questions.  plus alto is following your thread here already.  

[Altostrata]

On 10/15/2019 at 8:58 PM, HopeforHealing said:

In October of 2018 I was on 10 mg of Prozac and had been holding there for about a year while seeing a psychiatric nurse practitioner.  I was struggling at that dose, most likely due to delayed withdrawal from a too fast taper from 60 mg.  Due to my struggles, I decided to attend an outpatient OCD program where I foolishly allowed the attending psychiatrists to take me off the Prozac and put me on a cocktail of Abilify, Anafranil, and Luvox.  I did not notice any improvement with the cocktail over the 10mg of Prozac.  Once I discharged from the program three months later, I returned to seeing the psychiatric nurse practitioner.  He instructed me to cold turkey the Luvox (I had been taking 25 mg for 2.5 weeks).  I hesitated at the cold turkey approach but thought, "I've only been taking it 2.5 weeks."  He continued me at 5mg of Abilify and increased me from 75mg to 100mg of Anafranil.  At my next visit one month later, I said I would like to discontinue the Abilify and Anafranil as they were not helpful.  His instructions were to cut the 5mg Abilify pills in half for 6 days and stop.  This seemed too fast to me, but he told me that anti-psychotics do not need to be tapered as slowly as anti-depressants.  Regarding the Anafranil, I was to take 50 mg for one week, 25 mg for one week, then stop.  This seemed too fast to me as well, but I told myself that it was still a taper and not a true cold turkey.  I couldn’t have been more wrong.

 

Prozac withdrawal syndrome may be the original problem. I might try reinstating 1mg Prozac. It comes in a prescription liquid so you can take a small amount.

 

It may be that your system has been sensitized by the drug scramble, and a little Prozac would go a long way. You'd taper off by miniscule amounts after stabilizing for some months. Please let us know how you're doing.

[oops44]

youve been noticed by the lady of the manor as she tended to her garden of strange fruits. 😝

 

you may find this thread helpful.  the first post covers the method to make your own liquid solution if you choose to do so.  

 

best of luck!

 

 

[HopeforHealing]

Thank you so much for the advice, Alto. 

11 hours ago, Altostrata said:

Prozac withdrawal syndrome may be the original problem.

Looking back, I do think withdrawal started while still on Prozac, although I know it's impossible to truly determine which (lack of) drug is giving me the most problems now.  The last time I was completely off Prozac in 2012 I had withdrawal, but not nearly as bad, so I'm sure the CT of the "drug scramble" you mentioned is making things much worse this time around.

 

 

[HopeforHealing]

11 hours ago, oops44 said:

youve been noticed by the lady of the manor as she tended to her garden of strange fruits. 😝

Oops, this imagery is fantastic and makes me smile and laugh!  When reading this I can see Alto doing exactly this in my mind's eye.  ☺️

Thank you for the link as well.

[PoetJester]

Hi again HopeforHealing

 

You had asked if i knew of any other reinstatement success stories more than three months out.  Well, it sounds like you may have reinstated somewhat successfully before (i have, too), at least to the point of relieving withdrawal symptoms and then dealling with pill side effects.  There was another poster on SA, ArcticJessy, who had reinstated three years off at a low dose of something, and had success relieving her wd symptoms, but then later posted of having irregular heartbeats from the drug she had reinstated on and had to come off again, and was back in wd hell.   

 

I spoke with a woman on a zoloft facebook group who had reinstated one year out after spending the better part of the year bedbound and weeping and losing it.   She did pretty well with her reinstatement (she went back on 25 mg of Zoloft) -  going back to work as a yoga instructor and starting her own small kombucha business.   She posted recently about two years into her reinstatement about dealing with eczema from the drug (certain manufacturers of the generic form of the drug seem to cause worse eczema for her) and also sexual side effects and talks about maybe coming off the drug again to feel emotions,  but then with wd that usually is the big pendulum swing back to weeping and insomnia.

 

I think there is a "Was Reinstatement successful for you?" topic in the Symptoms and Self-care forum, where other posters posted their stories.  

 

About myself, i am doing ok.  Not great.  i have huge bags under my eyes from 5+ years of terrible sleep, and a host of digestive problems including a case of intestinal worms, which unluckily enough for me doctors in the U.S. don't' believe happens outside of third world countries, even though plenty of people do get worms, and some parasite infections used to be rather common not that long ago in the U.S.  So, i get to deal with inborn prejudices that have me wishing i were a dog somedays, so that i could get at least get treated by a vet, since doctors are in the dark about parasites mostly.

 

I did start my own small business in withdrawal hunting golf balls at golf courses near me.  I just go out on bike to courses on days i feel well enough and spend a few hours going through the weeds looking for all the lost shots ("chokeberries") that i then bring home and wash up and then sell online.  It doesn't pay much, but it is work and i enjoy being outside.   I actually spend a lot of the money i make on the golf balls on supplements, online dewormers and other anti-parasite medications, since doctors treat me like i am crazy or stupid when i mention that i have found worms, and have left me untreated so far, which is pretty pathetic statement on our times.

 

Poetjester

[oops44]

merry christmas H4H!!!!  i hope all is well with you. maybe check up on us sometime, ya? 😃

 

all the best

[Altostrata]

Hello, @HopeforHealing, how are you doing?

[HopeforHealing]

Hi, @Altostrata, thank you for checking in on me.  I decided not to reinstate so I am now at 18 months off all drugs.  I believe the fast taper/cold turkey caused amenorrhea, but my menstrual cycle has started to return.  This has been the only noticeable improvement.  I have not had any relief from my numerous emotional, psychological, and cognitive symptoms in 18 months.  I have not experienced any windows.

[Altostrata]

Thanks for updating. What are your current emotional, psychological, and cognitive symptoms? Why do you believe they're associated with withdrawal?

 

Are you still using bio-idential bi-estrogen and progesterone creams?

[Altostrata]

@HopeforHealing I am wondering if you had withdrawal symptoms from any of those many drug switches.

 

In your signature, you say

 

Quote

fall 2016 - fall 2017 - FT'd Wellbutrin to 0mg and Prozac to 10 mg (had FT'd both, reinstated at 300mg & 60mg, then FT'd again - very bad for my CNS)
fall 2017 - October 2018 - Prozac (10 mg) FT'd to switch to Anafranil

 

How did you feel after you restarted Prozac in fall of 2017-October 2018? Could your PAWS perhaps have started when you went off 60mg Prozac in the fall of 2017? Did any of the following drugs help?

 

Were there any periods since you started antidepressants in 2002 where you felt stable while taking an antidepressant?

[HopeforHealing]

Hello, @Altostrata, looking back I definitely had withdrawal symptoms every time I discontinued drugs.  Regarding the situation you point out above that was bad for my CNS: I think I experienced kindling (experienced feelings of emptiness) when I reinstated Prozac and Wellbutrin at full dosages during fall 2017 but was able to stabilize within a month or so upon reducing the dosages.  Over the next several months I tapered and stopped the Wellbutrin completely and tapered down to Prozac 10 mg.  Fall 2018 I began experiencing increasing anxiety and depression.  I wonder if this was due to delayed withdrawal from tapering too quickly after I had stabilized.  I made the switch to Anafranil, Abilify, and Luvox with no noticeable changes.  Coming off those three drugs in early 2019 was when things became significantly worse. 

 

The emotional, psychological, and cognitive symptoms since that discontinuation have remained unchanged in 18 months.  Namely crippling depression and anxiety, increased OCD, no motivation, anhedonia, extreme shame and guilt, severe stress intolerance, great difficulty managing day-to-day affairs, severly impaired executive functioning and decision-making abilities, diminished learning and comprehension abilities, and feeling fearful and overwhelmed by seemingly everything.  

  

There have been various times since 2002 that I felt stable while on antidepressants (Prozac and Wellbutrin), but I never felt good or normal.  I definitely felt the best prior to taking any drugs, even though I did not feel great.  Prior to being medicated (18 years ago) I only experienced OCD, moderate depression, and some anxiety.  While I was medicated, I experienced some of the above symptoms, but nowhere near to the extent I have been over the past 18 months.  This is what makes me think I am in withdrawal.  However, not experiencing the windows and waves pattern often makes me wonder if maybe this is just me now, and I have to learn to somehow manage without drugs.  Do you have any insights into this (regarding whether this may or may not be withdrawal)?

 

Also, I am no longer taking the hormones.  I will update my signature.