Emma7855: request for help with Lamictal withdrawal symptoms

[Icip]

Hi Emma,

 

I had an adverse reaction to only five days of Zoloft/sertraline, mistook my symptoms (exactly that of yours) for depression as I normally get it around that time of year so took a mix of St. John’s Wort (was several weeks after stopping sertraline so was not at risk of serotonin syndrome, I hope) and CBD oil, all most likely exasperating my symptoms.

I used to be sharp, and pretty much fit the description that you laid out for yourself, not notice how bland my writing is ha. I have Aphasia in the same form as you, used to include speaking + writing but it has improved. I also mistake words like bread for bed, house and mouse, etc etc; it’s like watching yourself trip over and fail from 3rd person over and over again.

I took the medication for panic attacks, anxiety, and ocd. It was like I was worrying all the time, my panic attacks were manageable too - I just enjoyed the feeling of having a ‘clear mind’, being an undergraduate and in general, I’d call myself a ‘positive ruminator’ I find little time to not have anything in my head, I only wanted short relief from this but have been granted a full four months of it (is getting better but not nearly myself).

 

visual problems are horrible, I’d be fine with the static if everything was so bright (probably is what’s bringing about the static). I have afterimages in the dark, glare, sun beams, and light trails (all most noticeable in the dark), however I do escape the ‘dullishness’ of the world at night, so is only when I leave the house.

 

I’ve seen some people on Facebook forums say that the visual problems dissipate after a year, one said two years - I guess we can only pray for sooner if at all.

 

I guess I just wanted to let you know that you’re not alone, I’ll be sure to read each of your updates to see how you’re doing:)).

 

I hope you’re okay and all the best,

 

Icip.

[Emma7855]

Hi @Icip,

 

Thanks for stopping by my thread and thanks for the kind words. It's a relief to hear that someone else shares my symptoms (although obviously I wished that neither one of us had them!). I've been worried because I can't find anyone else here whom I can quite relate to, and so I've been convinced that I'll be one of the unlucky few who will never recover. At least now I know there's someone who can empathize with me. So thanks for that, it means a lot to me. 

 

How are your waves and windows? I'm glad that your aphasia has receded a little. And yes, that would be so amazing if the visual snow went away after a year! I can only hope. 

 

Do you have depersonalization too? That's by far my worst symptom. And how is your social life? For me, I no longer feel connected to my friends or family, so I stay at home as much as possible. This past weekend a friend came to visit from out of town, and it was such a chore to socialize -- couldn't think of anything to say, personality's gone, don't relate to our friendship, have a hard time making the effort, and then can't drink so can't party like we used to -- that I ended up cutting the visit short. I'm really upset about it and feel like a failure of a friend. The only thing keeping me going for now is the hope that one day this will go away, but I have this nagging feeling that it won't. Fighting that constant feeling is such a chore in of itself that I don't have the energy for anything else. 

 

I had to laugh at your saying that your writing is bland -- I can relate! My vocabulary has been reduced to that of a toddler. 

 

Hugs,

 

Emma

[Icip]

Hey @Emma7855,

(Edit: sorry for the length of this, you don’t have to reply to it all. I just hope it helps for you to hear some things that you may be able to relate to yourself, you’re not alone!!!).

 

It’s horrible isn’t it. Looking on google and seeing that ‘Visual Snow’ has no known cures or treatment + usually lasts a while. I find it doesn’t help when the mods say, ‘these are all typical withdrawal symptoms’ - static + problems that come along with this don’t seem like common withdrawal symptoms as there are so few with this problem (unless most people get it but don’t notice) and even fewer who have said that they’ve gotten better.

 

The hippocampus of our brain (area for sight) must be so sensitive to change + slow to react. Arguably our eyes are the most complex organ in our body only second to our brain; it makes sense that will last a while. I’m sure it will go away for us in time, it might just outlast the withdrawal symptoms though. Feel free to inbox me if you’re ever feeling bad about all of this:).

 

In terms of windows and waves - mine haven’t been so noticeable. At first a window for me was to not feel so depersonalised/derealised + an uplift in mood, now its become that my head feels foggier, a pressure headache + worsened derealisation. 
I think I’m in ‘withdrawal normal’, everything feels relent I rly the same each day with improvements coming very very very (extremely) slowly. I do have bad days, I can wake up that way or something can trigger it, then the derealisation worsens, the brain fog, and the pressure headache comes around.

 

The depersonalisation has reduced greatly for me, sometimes when in a wave I get it a little, but I mostly have derealisation now; the world feels like a dream a lot of the time + I feel boxed in, I can’t really describe it, it’s like I’m not aware of my surroundings, or I never left my bedroom outside. It’s a weird almost-emotional barrier. It sucks, I just want to feel normal around my friends again.

 

For the first two months, I couldn’t really communicate at all (especially over message/text), I told my closest friends that I won’t be able to talk/message much, or message well enough for my own standards, and asked them to leave me for a while to recover on my own (I’m introverted and enjoy living in my head, dp/dr is a little too much for me though heh). I think I’m close to ‘being there’ with friends, I can’t talk, joke, and have fun. I however just realise how not myself I am when around friends - I noticed when old non drug me would have said something more diligent, something more insightful, or even critical.

Despite this, friends have been what has made me feel best throughout these hard months, even if it had induced anxiety now and even in the initial months.

 

Have you told your friends/that friend of your situation? Please try not to exert yourself - you’ll only increase the anxiety and dig yourself a huuuuuge rabbit hole, of which you’ll need to get out of at some point. Sounds easy, but the entrance may collapse, then what?

 

Would you say that you’re more extroverted or introverted in nature? For either of these I really recommend spending time alone - don’t isolate, be with family, but just do what you’re comfortable with:).

 

The Anhedonia will go, I’m certain. It seems to be something that improves, sometimes at faster rates than at other times.

 

Can I ask if you have any other visual issues? I have visual snow, double vision, mild floaters, afterimages, photophobia, and all of my field of view looks grey + ‘dull’ - these all worsen depending on sleep levels, stress, and maybe just what side of the bed I woke up on. Sometimes the grey vision goes completely, others like today - it’s back just as bad as it was when I first noticed it. I’m not quite sure if eyesight can be affected by windows and waves - I’m just scared.

 

My vocab has been getting a little more varied as the weeks go by, now it’s just concentrating enough to use it fully. I can feel happiness, and joy, I just can’t feel sad or angry. My creativity has disappeared too - I’m an undergrad half way through my degree and I’ve not even done any work yet since this year started, it very much so sucks. Photography + graphic design are hobbies of mine, I don’t even have the ‘creativity’ to colour correct a photo heh.

 

I hope you’re doing well:)) thank y Liu for replying. The depersonalisation will get better, your brain is overwhelmed so doing that to protect you. It has to calm down at some point. I don’t think mine will go fully away till I’m 100% healed which may take time.

 

I’m praying for you!!

 

Icip.

Edited February 17, 2020 by Icip
Added ‘edit’.

[Emma7855]

Hi @Altostrata / @Shep -- I wanted to ask you in case you've ever heard of this happening. In early March I had a microneedling procedure for rosacea on my face (it's like a laser treatment, except physical instead of heat-based). Unfortunately I got an adverse reaction from the procedure that left me with burning, scarring, and inflammation all over my face. I had to use hydrocortisone 1% (OTC cream) and then Elidel (prescription cream that is an immunosuppressant) in order to control the burning. At the same time I developed a yeast infection and decided it would be safer to use Terconazole (prescription cream) instead of Diflucan (oral medication). Since using these creams, I've noticed some concerning changes: 1) histamine intolerance (ears burn when I eat anything high in histamine), 2) hair loss , 3) fat loss, 4) visible veins, 5) wrinkled skin, 6) hands and feet look pruny, as if I just took a long shower. Do you think one of the creams caused this? Is this a normal part of withdrawal (I know others have reported developing a histamine intolerance, but I haven't seen much concerning physical changes)? Will this too go away over time or is it permanent? I was under the assumption that it was best to stay away from oral pills during withdrawal, but does this apply to topical creams as well? Thanks for your help. 

[Altostrata]

Emma, steroid creams can be strong drugs absorbed through the skin. I can't say any of those symptoms are connected with withdrawal, too many things going on, sorry.

[Emma7855]

Thanks, @Altostrata.

[Emma7855]

Hi @Altostrata / @Shep -- After going through my daily notes and putting a lot of thought into it, I've pinpointed the physical issues (hair loss, fat redistribution, mottled skin, visible veins, thinned / wrinkled skin, etc.) to using the OTC 1% hydrocortisone cream on my cheeks. Do you think this is possibly related to withdrawal? Or did I just cause my hormone levels and/or endocrine system to become unbalanced? I'm wondering if the steroid was just a shock to my body. To add to this, I tried to go back on birth control pills in January; I only took one pill, and within a few weeks I developed cellulite, stretch marks, and additional wrinkles, so maybe my estrogen/progesterone levels are off and the steroid further altered them. I'm wondering if these are permanent changes or if it'll just take my body longer than normal to recover. Not sure what's going on. Have you heard of others experiencing this? I'd appreciate any input you could offer. Thank you very much.

[Altostrata]

Emma, that effect of hydrocortisone on the face is widely known. You're not supposed to use it on your face.

 

I don't think those effects are related to psychiatric drugs.

[Emma7855]

Thanks, @Altostrata. I only used the cream on my cheeks for a few days (which my doctor said was okay), and the symptoms I developed are system-wide. When I spoke to my doctor she said it wasn't possible for that to happen, but if it did then it would be localized to the site of application. Do you think my destabilized CNS is the reason why I developed such an overwhelming response? 

[Altostrata]

I doubt those skin problems are related to withdrawal. Your system may be sensitized. I see you went off birth control pills in March 2019. Did you have a withdrawal reaction to that?

 

Birth control pills contain steroids. Steroids are strong drugs to which you might be reacting. That's all I know about endocrinological drugs. Please consult your doctor about possible other endocrinological problems.

[Emma7855]

Yes, my system is definitely sensitized -- I can't handle medications well. I did have a withdrawal reaction when i went off the birth control (appetite loss, aphasia, increased anxiety), but I was already in withdrawal from going off Prozac the year before, so I'm not sure how much of it was due to birth control specifically.

[Emma7855]

@Altostrata, if my system is destabilized and I'm sensitive to medication, does that mean I'm more prone to side effects, or that my withdrawal symptoms or more likely to be enhanced? Sorry for the confusion. Here's what I wrote in my previous comment:

Quote

Yes, my system is definitely sensitized -- I can't handle medications well. I did have a withdrawal reaction when i went off the birth control (appetite loss, aphasia, increased anxiety), but I was already in withdrawal from going off Prozac the year before, so I'm not sure how much of it was due to birth control specifically.

 

[Altostrata]

You'd be more prone to side effects. If you're tapering a drug, you might find it harder to taper.

[Emma7855]

Thanks, @Altostrata. Apologies for the long list of questions, but I have one more -- do you know if we're more likely to be affected by phytoestrogens (like curcumin)? Would we be more susceptible to their effects on the endocrine system? I tried searching here but couldn't find much. I also asked my PCP, who said they were so weak as to be a non-issue, but I don't think she fully understands the concept of a hypersensitive nervous system. Thanks.

[Altostrata]

There is no way to predict how someone with a sensitized nervous system will react to anything. If you want to try something, we tell people to try a little bit at first to see the effect and try only one thing at a time.

[Emma7855]

Thanks, @Altostrata. My doctor is recommending that I have an ACTH Stim test done, but that involves injecting me with cosyntropin. Do you know anything about that? I'm concerned about going ahead with it, since my hormones are so sensitive. Thanks.

[Altostrata]

Have you had abnormal test results? What does this doctor thinks your symptoms are due to? I don't know what that test is or why you'd get it. Please research the test to see if it is necessary. It may be a fishing expedition because the doctor doesn't know a bean about adverse drug effects.

[Emma7855]

Ok, thanks. This is to get to the bottom of why I'm having these hormone-related physical changes (mottled skin, thinned skin, hair loss, weight redistribution, stretch marks, cellulite, etc.). I brought up the hydrocortisone and curcumin use and was dismissed as being irrational. 

[Emma7855]

Hi @Altostrata, out of curiosity, can a hypersensitive nervous system cause inflammation? Or are the two unrelated? Asking because I developed a persistent burning feeling in my cheeks after a procedure, and I'm wondering if the withdrawal is preventing it from improving (or maybe it's another withdrawal symptom?). Thanks.

[Altostrata]

If you had a procedure on your cheeks, I would think the adverse effect is from the procedure, not withdrawal, though withdrawal hypersensitivity may amplify the discomfort.

 

We do not provide general medical counseling here. If you had an adverse effect from a procedure, please talk to the doctor who performed it.

[Emma7855]

Thanks, @Altostrata. Do you know if withdrawal causes inflammation, in general? What I've been told is that I need to remove all causes of inflammation, and I'm wondering if that's possible in a withdrawal state. Thanks.

[Altostrata]

Withdrawal does not cause inflammation, generally. It is mainly neurological destabilization.

[Emma7855]

Thanks, @Altostrata.

[Emma7855]

Hi @Altostrata. I need to get off the curcumin gel. How should I go about tapering it? I've just been using a pea-sized amount so I'm not sure how to go about decreasing that dose by 10%. Or can I just stop? Thanks.

[Altostrata]

I don't know anything about curcumin gel. I would think you could simply halve it twice and stop over a few days.

[brassmonkey]

Curcumin gel is a topical anti-inflammatory and should not cause a problem if it is just stopped. If you feel nervous then a quick  taper by using smaller amounts on successive days would work as well.

[Emma7855]

Thanks, @Altostrata and @brassmonkey. Unfortunately the curcumin gel has been affecting my hormones, since it's a phytoestrogen (as well as an anti-inflammatory). It caused my endocrine system to become severely unbalanced, producing a number of physical side effects. I'm upset at myself for not figuring this out much sooner. I don't think I'll be able to fix this.

[Altostrata]

The effects probably will go away in a week or two.

[Emma7855]

I hope so! 

[Emma7855]

Hi @Altostrata and/or @brassmonkey -- I'm in a huge bind. When I decrease the amount of the curcumin gel I'm using (FYI this gel is incredibly concentrated -- 18-20% curcumin content), I get symptoms of low estrogen, which are much more extreme version of ones that I got when discontinuing birth control pills last year (stretch marks, receding hairline, eyebrow hair loss, thinned eyelashes, cellulite, stretch marks, loss of multiple cup sizes, dry/thin/wrinkly skin, aging in face, urinary incontinence, dry ******). When I updose to "fix" these symptoms (or layer something on top of the gel -- I did this before realizing what was going on), I just get ones of estrogen dominance (colds hands/feet, PMS symptoms) and exacerbated withdrawal (insomnia, heart racing). What can I do??? Is there anyway for me to get my old body back??? I'm only 31 and shouldn't be experiencing menopause yet! I've talked to a dozen doctors, who are all clueless and say this is normal for my age. It most certainly is not. One suggested taking another phytoestrogen (like black cohosh, alfalfa, or red clover), and another suggested I take an adaptogen (red maca), but I'm scared about the possible consequences. I'd appreciate any help. Thanks. 

[Altostrata]

We don't know anything about curcumin gel or treating estrogen dominance here. The symptoms you describe

 

1 hour ago, Emma7855 said:

stretch marks, receding hairline, eyebrow hair loss, thinned eyelashes, cellulite, stretch marks, loss of multiple cup sizes, dry/thin/wrinkly skin, aging in face, urinary incontinence, dry ******

 

are not related to psychiatric drug withdrawal syndrome.

 

Please seek support from whomever recommended curcumin gel or is advising you about your estrogen condition. We can't help you.

[Emma7855]

That's what I figured but I thought I would at least mention it. Thanks, @Altostrata. Unfortunately I think it destabilized my system even further, and now I'm getting more brain fog/depersonalization/visual symptoms/tinnitus the more I taper it (though my sleep is slightly better on lower doses of it -- on high doses, I wake up with my heart racing). Should I hold at the current dose or updose? Thanks.

[Altostrata]

I would not mess with your psychiatric drugs until you get your endocrinological situation settled. Those symptoms are coming from whatever you did to your endocrinological balance.

[Emma7855]

Sorry, I was referring to the curcumin gel, not to the psychiatric drugs -- I haven't changed those doses in months. My doctor is telling me to taper the curcumin but doing so seems to exacerbate the withdrawal symptoms. 

[Emma7855]

Thanks, @Altostrata. Sorry for the confusion -- I was referring to the curcumin gel, not to the psychiatric drugs. I haven't changed the latter in months. My doctor is telling me to taper the curcumin but doing so seems to exacerbate the withdrawal symptoms. But when i'm on it, it worsens my sleep and I wake up with my heart leaping out of my chest. 

[Altostrata]

Emma, I don't know a thing about this curcumin gel.

 

Please seek support from whomever recommended curcumin gel or is advising you about your estrogen condition. Or an endocrinologist. We can't help you.