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Andyroo66: Mirtazapine - in a mess


Andyroo66

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Hi

backstory - have migraine aura, RLS , anxiety /depression. took Amiriptyline low dose 6 years - did ok on that

Discovered i have Long QT so cardiologist stopped the Ami without a repalcement

Got off Amitriptyline after a long taper- did OK but anxiety/ill- health came back, did a gut detox that went horribly wrong - anxiety and RLS worse

Neurologist gave me Gabapentin for the migraine auara (bad decision!) - awful anxiety, had to take clonazepam to deal with it- stopped cold turkey on low dose 200mg 3 weeks  (very bad decision on my part but hated the experience on it) - terrible anxiety insomnia. 3 weeks on benzos, then MIrtazapine 15mg

Mirtazapine 15mg sent anxiety through roof, aggravates RLS, migraines are bad, too high a dose makes me feel unreal, too low a dose is too strong an antihistamine so very sluggish and watery eyes. Cannot find a level I can cope with but neither can I get off it as when I got to 3.75mg felt awful (everything getting even worse again)  . Doc/psychiatrist/NHS all burying their heads in the sand, I am complaining I wasnt advised about the risks!. Not offering any solutions or alternatives I guess because of my Long QT Stuck between a rock and a hard place!

Any dose change I make I feel about 3- 4 weeks later so all the stuff the Psych gave me about half lives is utter bull.

Any ideas anyone?

April 2013 Citalopram 2 weeks 7.5mg aborted due to extreme anxiety/RLS/brain flashes

Sertraline May 2013 - starting dose, aborted after 5 days- intolerable bowel problems

June 2013 Diazeapam 2mg- 4mg per day for 3 weeks or so

July 2013 - Feb 2018 Amitriptyline/Nortriptyline 17.5mg max, started at 5 then 10 then 15 then 17.5mg -

Feb 2019- Gabapentin 300mg 3 weeks plus Clonazepam 1/4 tablet per day- worsened anxiety and depression- stopped

March 2019- 3 weeks Diazepam 2mg

April 2019 - Mirtazapine 15mg, reduced to 3/4 tablet approx 3 months in as continued anxiety derealisation and aggrravated RLS symptoms plus arm pain and akathasia, reduced to 7.5mg 4 months in, 5mg 5 months in, 3.75mg 6 months in. Problems at 3.75mg so stepped back up to 5mg 2 weeks then 7.5mg now.

My case is possibly complicated by my Long QT and migraine aura/RLS as diagnosed by neurologist meaning there is a whole list of medications I should not take because of the Long QT including Amitriptyline

Current regime: 7.5mg Mirt at night, in moring 220ug Selenium methionine, 250mg slow release Vit C, 250ug sublingual Vit B12 if I remember

GOAL: To get off AD meds and control my RLS/anxiety in other ways

QUESTION: at 10% reduction per month and starting at 7.5mg Mirt by my calcs thats over a 2 year withdrawal, is that correct?? And how doe people overcome the striong antihistamine effects at low dosage??

 

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  • Altostrata changed the title to Andyroo66 Mirtazapine - in a mess
  • Administrator

Welcome, Andyroo.

 

What drugs are you taking now, at what times of day and what dosages?

 

To help us out, follow these instructions Please put your drug and withdrawal history in your signature You may need to use a computer to do this.

 

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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Hiya

please see signature

Currently 7.5mg Mirt at night, nothing else to spek of.

These meds have been helpful in some ways but have messed me up in many others especially anxiety. Looking for a taper plan and to be off meds in a few years as cant tolerate any more problems.

April 2013 Citalopram 2 weeks 7.5mg aborted due to extreme anxiety/RLS/brain flashes

Sertraline May 2013 - starting dose, aborted after 5 days- intolerable bowel problems

June 2013 Diazeapam 2mg- 4mg per day for 3 weeks or so

July 2013 - Feb 2018 Amitriptyline/Nortriptyline 17.5mg max, started at 5 then 10 then 15 then 17.5mg -

Feb 2019- Gabapentin 300mg 3 weeks plus Clonazepam 1/4 tablet per day- worsened anxiety and depression- stopped

March 2019- 3 weeks Diazepam 2mg

April 2019 - Mirtazapine 15mg, reduced to 3/4 tablet approx 3 months in as continued anxiety derealisation and aggrravated RLS symptoms plus arm pain and akathasia, reduced to 7.5mg 4 months in, 5mg 5 months in, 3.75mg 6 months in. Problems at 3.75mg so stepped back up to 5mg 2 weeks then 7.5mg now.

My case is possibly complicated by my Long QT and migraine aura/RLS as diagnosed by neurologist meaning there is a whole list of medications I should not take because of the Long QT including Amitriptyline

Current regime: 7.5mg Mirt at night, in moring 220ug Selenium methionine, 250mg slow release Vit C, 250ug sublingual Vit B12 if I remember

GOAL: To get off AD meds and control my RLS/anxiety in other ways

QUESTION: at 10% reduction per month and starting at 7.5mg Mirt by my calcs thats over a 2 year withdrawal, is that correct?? And how doe people overcome the striong antihistamine effects at low dosage??

 

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  • 4 weeks later...

Hi can anyone help?

I really hate Mirtazapine and want to get off it, tried recently and failed.

Today it makes me so angry and bitter, ive been through a lot this year but I'm sure this medication makes the anger and bitterness worse.

I'm on 7.5mg, couldnt tolerate the anxiety of the 15mg dose (anxiety through the roof!) , I reckon I have issues with over methylation as I have the MTHFR gene rs1801133 (one copy of MTHFR C677T)

On lower doses I was starting to have issues with sweating, watery eyes, just feeling rough. I feel trapped as my psych wont consider any changes to my meds (I asked about tapering and her reply was "I dont deal in homeopathy"- not much use that) as I have Long QT and a very bad track history of not tolerating AD medications with worsening of anxiety and RLS symptoms, due to over-stimulation I think (back to the methylation theory).

I see I could taper at 10% a month - how? make a dispersion? I'm not sure the dispersion is stable and the active compound does not degarde in water (I used the orodispersible tablets and they smelt very sweet in water) and that will take 2 years by my reckoning! There must be a point at which the dose is insignificant.

Thanks, hope to hear soon.

April 2013 Citalopram 2 weeks 7.5mg aborted due to extreme anxiety/RLS/brain flashes

Sertraline May 2013 - starting dose, aborted after 5 days- intolerable bowel problems

June 2013 Diazeapam 2mg- 4mg per day for 3 weeks or so

July 2013 - Feb 2018 Amitriptyline/Nortriptyline 17.5mg max, started at 5 then 10 then 15 then 17.5mg -

Feb 2019- Gabapentin 300mg 3 weeks plus Clonazepam 1/4 tablet per day- worsened anxiety and depression- stopped

March 2019- 3 weeks Diazepam 2mg

April 2019 - Mirtazapine 15mg, reduced to 3/4 tablet approx 3 months in as continued anxiety derealisation and aggrravated RLS symptoms plus arm pain and akathasia, reduced to 7.5mg 4 months in, 5mg 5 months in, 3.75mg 6 months in. Problems at 3.75mg so stepped back up to 5mg 2 weeks then 7.5mg now.

My case is possibly complicated by my Long QT and migraine aura/RLS as diagnosed by neurologist meaning there is a whole list of medications I should not take because of the Long QT including Amitriptyline

Current regime: 7.5mg Mirt at night, in moring 220ug Selenium methionine, 250mg slow release Vit C, 250ug sublingual Vit B12 if I remember

GOAL: To get off AD meds and control my RLS/anxiety in other ways

QUESTION: at 10% reduction per month and starting at 7.5mg Mirt by my calcs thats over a 2 year withdrawal, is that correct?? And how doe people overcome the striong antihistamine effects at low dosage??

 

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  • Moderator
45 minutes ago, Andyroo66 said:

I see I could taper at 10% a month - how? make a dispersion? I'm not sure the dispersion is stable and the active compound does not degarde in water (I used the orodispersible tablets and they smelt very sweet in water) and that will take 2 years by my reckoning! There must be a point at which the dose is insignificant.

 

Andyroo66,

 

As you have seen, we recommend tapering by no more than 10% of current dose every four weeks.

 

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

The following link is specifically about tapering Mirtazapine, including how to obtain the nonstandard smaller doses you'll need for tapering.

 

Tips for tapering off Remeron (mirtazapine)

 

Yes, it takes a long time to taper safely.  I am coming up on three years of tapering 20mg Lexapro and figure I have another year to go.  It's hard to wrap your mind around how long it takes, but that's the reality.  Regarding insignificant doses, it's at the lower doses that it's especially important to taper slowly.  These drugs are very strong.

 

 

Gridley Introduction

 

Lexapro 20 mg since 2004.  Begin Brassmonkey Slide Taper Jan. 2017.   

End 2017 year 1 of taper at 9.25mg 

End 2018 year 2 of taper at 4.1mg

End 2019 year 3 of taper at 1.0mg  

Oct. 30, 2020  Jump to zero from 0.025mg.  Current dose: 0.000mg

3 year, 10 month taper is 100% complete.

 

Ativan 1 mg to 1.875mg 1986-2020, two CT's and reinstatements

Nov. 2020, 7-week Ativan-Valium crossover to 18.75mg 

Feb. 2021, begin 10%/4 week taper.  Current dose as of Jan. 11, 2022: 5.4mg 

Taper is 71% complete.

 

Imipramine 75 mg daily since 1986.  Jan-Sept 2016 tapered to 16mg.  

Held until Aug 2021, tapered for 4 weeks to 14.4mg and holding.  

Taper is 80% complete.  

  

Supplements: omega-3, vitamins C, E and D3, magnesium glycinate, probiotic, zinc, melatonin .3mg


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

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thanks Gridley, I know these points but I cant see how to tolerate 2 years of how I felt on the lower dose (5mg was bad) - especially the strong anti histamine effects like the watery eyes and bad headaches/migraines I get , also no motivation and the sedative effect

I'm not sure making a solution with the orodispersible tablets is a good science. It degrades and If I chuck the solution away each time I take a fresh dose that will be an awful lot of tablets, my GP won't sanction it I think.

My brain is already sensitised from a bad experience with Gabapentin and previous bad experience with Citalopram so for sure I need to be cautious

Can I use supplements to help with the withdrawal?

I tend to think I'm just getting my brain even more conditioned to the drug if I stay on it for 2 more years! Given I've only been on it since April.

I actually think at the moment I'm stuck on it until I somehow improve my other health issues, hence the question about supplementation!!. Best supplements for me were Nutri Adreno Max or Adrenal Extra, much better than AD's, all my problems got worse with AD's.

I cant just taper off unless I give my nervous system some kind of support (I have other issues with migraine aura /RLS)

Thanks

April 2013 Citalopram 2 weeks 7.5mg aborted due to extreme anxiety/RLS/brain flashes

Sertraline May 2013 - starting dose, aborted after 5 days- intolerable bowel problems

June 2013 Diazeapam 2mg- 4mg per day for 3 weeks or so

July 2013 - Feb 2018 Amitriptyline/Nortriptyline 17.5mg max, started at 5 then 10 then 15 then 17.5mg -

Feb 2019- Gabapentin 300mg 3 weeks plus Clonazepam 1/4 tablet per day- worsened anxiety and depression- stopped

March 2019- 3 weeks Diazepam 2mg

April 2019 - Mirtazapine 15mg, reduced to 3/4 tablet approx 3 months in as continued anxiety derealisation and aggrravated RLS symptoms plus arm pain and akathasia, reduced to 7.5mg 4 months in, 5mg 5 months in, 3.75mg 6 months in. Problems at 3.75mg so stepped back up to 5mg 2 weeks then 7.5mg now.

My case is possibly complicated by my Long QT and migraine aura/RLS as diagnosed by neurologist meaning there is a whole list of medications I should not take because of the Long QT including Amitriptyline

Current regime: 7.5mg Mirt at night, in moring 220ug Selenium methionine, 250mg slow release Vit C, 250ug sublingual Vit B12 if I remember

GOAL: To get off AD meds and control my RLS/anxiety in other ways

QUESTION: at 10% reduction per month and starting at 7.5mg Mirt by my calcs thats over a 2 year withdrawal, is that correct?? And how doe people overcome the striong antihistamine effects at low dosage??

 

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  • Moderator
6 minutes ago, Andyroo66 said:

Can I use supplements to help with the withdrawal?

I tend to think I'm just getting my brain even more conditioned to the drug if I stay on it for 2 more years! Given I've only been on it since April.

 

We don't recommend a lot of supplements on SA, as many members report being sensitive to them due to our over-reactive nervous systems, but two supplements that we do recommend are magnesium and omega 3 (fish oil). Many people find these to be calming to the nervous system. 

 

 

 

Please research all supplements first and only add in one at a time and at a low dose in case you do experience problems.  Regarding other supplements, you'll have to make your own decision.
 
14 minutes ago, Andyroo66 said:

I'm not sure making a solution with the orodispersible tablets is a good science

 

As the link I sent about tapering Mirt indicates, you can also weigh portions of tablets using an AWS Gemini-20 scale, available on Amazon.

 

9 minutes ago, Andyroo66 said:

 

I tend to think I'm just getting my brain even more conditioned to the drug if I stay on it for 2 more years! Given I've only been on it since April.

 

Unfortunately, after only a month on these drugs you are subject to withdrawal.  The slow taper is our recommendation to minimize withdrawal.

Again, it has to be your decision regarding whether and when to taper and the rate at which you taper.

 

Gridley Introduction

 

Lexapro 20 mg since 2004.  Begin Brassmonkey Slide Taper Jan. 2017.   

End 2017 year 1 of taper at 9.25mg 

End 2018 year 2 of taper at 4.1mg

End 2019 year 3 of taper at 1.0mg  

Oct. 30, 2020  Jump to zero from 0.025mg.  Current dose: 0.000mg

3 year, 10 month taper is 100% complete.

 

Ativan 1 mg to 1.875mg 1986-2020, two CT's and reinstatements

Nov. 2020, 7-week Ativan-Valium crossover to 18.75mg 

Feb. 2021, begin 10%/4 week taper.  Current dose as of Jan. 11, 2022: 5.4mg 

Taper is 71% complete.

 

Imipramine 75 mg daily since 1986.  Jan-Sept 2016 tapered to 16mg.  

Held until Aug 2021, tapered for 4 weeks to 14.4mg and holding.  

Taper is 80% complete.  

  

Supplements: omega-3, vitamins C, E and D3, magnesium glycinate, probiotic, zinc, melatonin .3mg


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

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  • manymoretodays changed the title to Andyroo66: Mirtazapine - in a mess
  • 3 weeks later...

Thanks- I now have a new scenario, I saw a Neurologist recently and she diagnosed FND- have had problems for 20 years, suggested I try Duloxetine 30mg

So can I cross taper from 7.5mg Mirtazapine to 30mg Duloxetine? As I understand it they both work on different receptors in the brain.

Once on Duloxetine is that a 10% taper plan, how easy would that be in comparison to Mirtazapine, Im thinking pill sizes/cutting up etc

Thanks in advance

April 2013 Citalopram 2 weeks 7.5mg aborted due to extreme anxiety/RLS/brain flashes

Sertraline May 2013 - starting dose, aborted after 5 days- intolerable bowel problems

June 2013 Diazeapam 2mg- 4mg per day for 3 weeks or so

July 2013 - Feb 2018 Amitriptyline/Nortriptyline 17.5mg max, started at 5 then 10 then 15 then 17.5mg -

Feb 2019- Gabapentin 300mg 3 weeks plus Clonazepam 1/4 tablet per day- worsened anxiety and depression- stopped

March 2019- 3 weeks Diazepam 2mg

April 2019 - Mirtazapine 15mg, reduced to 3/4 tablet approx 3 months in as continued anxiety derealisation and aggrravated RLS symptoms plus arm pain and akathasia, reduced to 7.5mg 4 months in, 5mg 5 months in, 3.75mg 6 months in. Problems at 3.75mg so stepped back up to 5mg 2 weeks then 7.5mg now.

My case is possibly complicated by my Long QT and migraine aura/RLS as diagnosed by neurologist meaning there is a whole list of medications I should not take because of the Long QT including Amitriptyline

Current regime: 7.5mg Mirt at night, in moring 220ug Selenium methionine, 250mg slow release Vit C, 250ug sublingual Vit B12 if I remember

GOAL: To get off AD meds and control my RLS/anxiety in other ways

QUESTION: at 10% reduction per month and starting at 7.5mg Mirt by my calcs thats over a 2 year withdrawal, is that correct?? And how doe people overcome the striong antihistamine effects at low dosage??

 

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  • 1 month later...

Update: Diagnosed with FND,  But- I'm not considering Duloxetine as way way too risky!! I am extremely sensitive to these drugs. Just worked out my long term 10% taper plan for Mirtazapine, If I go cautious and do 10% every 2 months that takes me 5 years. At the low dosages like a few milligrams or so anyone have any experience of at which point it becomes insignificant, so if I'm at 0.5mg do i keep going until ever decreasing dosages.

Im week 3 into my first 10% taper and feeling it a little - headache, buzzing legs, but my brain feels like its opening out again as I always got the feeling on Mirt it somehow shuts your brain down, I'm a chemist and with those three Nitrogens I reckon it's way too substantive for my brain, I read somewhere it works on 39 receptors in the brain or something

With me it seems to take 3 weeks until I feel any kind of change in dosage, cant go back up due to the anger problems it gives me, terrible drug!!

Or I may cross taper onto Noritriptyline, but as I have Long QT that comes with its own risks.

April 2013 Citalopram 2 weeks 7.5mg aborted due to extreme anxiety/RLS/brain flashes

Sertraline May 2013 - starting dose, aborted after 5 days- intolerable bowel problems

June 2013 Diazeapam 2mg- 4mg per day for 3 weeks or so

July 2013 - Feb 2018 Amitriptyline/Nortriptyline 17.5mg max, started at 5 then 10 then 15 then 17.5mg -

Feb 2019- Gabapentin 300mg 3 weeks plus Clonazepam 1/4 tablet per day- worsened anxiety and depression- stopped

March 2019- 3 weeks Diazepam 2mg

April 2019 - Mirtazapine 15mg, reduced to 3/4 tablet approx 3 months in as continued anxiety derealisation and aggrravated RLS symptoms plus arm pain and akathasia, reduced to 7.5mg 4 months in, 5mg 5 months in, 3.75mg 6 months in. Problems at 3.75mg so stepped back up to 5mg 2 weeks then 7.5mg now.

My case is possibly complicated by my Long QT and migraine aura/RLS as diagnosed by neurologist meaning there is a whole list of medications I should not take because of the Long QT including Amitriptyline

Current regime: 7.5mg Mirt at night, in moring 220ug Selenium methionine, 250mg slow release Vit C, 250ug sublingual Vit B12 if I remember

GOAL: To get off AD meds and control my RLS/anxiety in other ways

QUESTION: at 10% reduction per month and starting at 7.5mg Mirt by my calcs thats over a 2 year withdrawal, is that correct?? And how doe people overcome the striong antihistamine effects at low dosage??

 

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  • Moderator
3 hours ago, Andyroo66 said:

At the low dosages like a few milligrams or so anyone have any experience of at which point it becomes insignificant, so if I'm at 0.5mg do i keep going until ever decreasing dosages.

 

I'm at 0.8mg Lexapro and intend to go a good bit lower.  0.5mg seems too high to me to jump off.  It would be good to get down to 0.1mg or, if possible, even lower.  

Gridley Introduction

 

Lexapro 20 mg since 2004.  Begin Brassmonkey Slide Taper Jan. 2017.   

End 2017 year 1 of taper at 9.25mg 

End 2018 year 2 of taper at 4.1mg

End 2019 year 3 of taper at 1.0mg  

Oct. 30, 2020  Jump to zero from 0.025mg.  Current dose: 0.000mg

3 year, 10 month taper is 100% complete.

 

Ativan 1 mg to 1.875mg 1986-2020, two CT's and reinstatements

Nov. 2020, 7-week Ativan-Valium crossover to 18.75mg 

Feb. 2021, begin 10%/4 week taper.  Current dose as of Jan. 11, 2022: 5.4mg 

Taper is 71% complete.

 

Imipramine 75 mg daily since 1986.  Jan-Sept 2016 tapered to 16mg.  

Held until Aug 2021, tapered for 4 weeks to 14.4mg and holding.  

Taper is 80% complete.  

  

Supplements: omega-3, vitamins C, E and D3, magnesium glycinate, probiotic, zinc, melatonin .3mg


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

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  • 1 year later...

Mirtazapine 4.5mg STUCK - I need a medication bridge?

 

Hello

 

Not been here for a while

 

Well I'm still trying to reduce Mirtazapine

 

I seem to be stuck at 4.5mg for the last 18 months or so, its so frustrating

 

I'm finding to go up a fraction is a problem - headaches and anxiety and to go down  a fraction ( to 4.4mg!) a major problem - hostility anger and suicide ideation

 

But i have so many neurological problems now on this Mirt- and it's given me a cataract in my right eye!

 

I tried LDN and it seems to compete with the Mirtazapine and sent me into withdrawals

I have LQTS which means a lot of other drugs are no no's - it's part of the reason I ended up on Mirtazapine , I was OK on Amitriptyline but idiot Cardiologist told me to stop it and now they are backtracking and saying it was only "advice" FFS

 

So if im ever to get off Mirtazapine I need to use another agent - it's either Duloxetine or Lamotrigine at a very very low dose

 

Any ideas?

 

thanks

 

Edited by ChessieCat
added topic title before merging with intro topic / spacing

April 2013 Citalopram 2 weeks 7.5mg aborted due to extreme anxiety/RLS/brain flashes

Sertraline May 2013 - starting dose, aborted after 5 days- intolerable bowel problems

June 2013 Diazeapam 2mg- 4mg per day for 3 weeks or so

July 2013 - Feb 2018 Amitriptyline/Nortriptyline 17.5mg max, started at 5 then 10 then 15 then 17.5mg -

Feb 2019- Gabapentin 300mg 3 weeks plus Clonazepam 1/4 tablet per day- worsened anxiety and depression- stopped

March 2019- 3 weeks Diazepam 2mg

April 2019 - Mirtazapine 15mg, reduced to 3/4 tablet approx 3 months in as continued anxiety derealisation and aggrravated RLS symptoms plus arm pain and akathasia, reduced to 7.5mg 4 months in, 5mg 5 months in, 3.75mg 6 months in. Problems at 3.75mg so stepped back up to 5mg 2 weeks then 7.5mg now.

My case is possibly complicated by my Long QT and migraine aura/RLS as diagnosed by neurologist meaning there is a whole list of medications I should not take because of the Long QT including Amitriptyline

Current regime: 7.5mg Mirt at night, in moring 220ug Selenium methionine, 250mg slow release Vit C, 250ug sublingual Vit B12 if I remember

GOAL: To get off AD meds and control my RLS/anxiety in other ways

QUESTION: at 10% reduction per month and starting at 7.5mg Mirt by my calcs thats over a 2 year withdrawal, is that correct?? And how doe people overcome the striong antihistamine effects at low dosage??

 

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  • Moderator

@Andyroo66

 

How are you measuring your doses? Are you using a scale?

 

We are just trying to figure out how to help you.

PREVIOUS medications and discontinuations: Have been on medications since 1996. 

 Valium, Gabapentin, Lamictal, Prilosec and Zantac from 2000 to 2015 with a fast taper by a psychiatrist.

 Liquid Lexapro Nov, 2016 to 31-March, 2019 Lexapro free!!! (total Lexapro taper was 4 years-started with pill form)

---CURRENT MEDICATIONS:Supplements:Milk Thistle, Metamucil, Magnesium Citrate, Vitamin D3, Levothyroxine 25mcg, Vitamin C, 

 Xanax 1mg three times a day June, 2000 to 19-September, 2020 Went from .150 grams (average weight of 1 Xanax) three times a day to .003 grams three times a day.

19-September, 2020 Xanax free!!! (total Xanax taper was 15-1/2 months-1-June, 2019-19-September, 2020)

 

 

I am not a medical professional. The suggestions I make are based on personal experience.

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  • Administrator
21 hours ago, Andyroo66 said:

I tried LDN and it seems to compete with the Mirtazapine and sent me into withdrawals

 

What dates were you on LDN? What was the dose?

 

Are you taking any other drugs besides mirtazapine?

Drug free May 22, 2015 after 30 years of neuroleptics, benzos, z-drugs, so-called "anti"-depressants, and amphetamines 

 

My Success Story:  Shep's Success: "Leaving Plato's Cave"

 

And what is good, Phaedrus, and what is not good — need we ask anyone to tell us these things? ~ Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

 

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