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Phoenix1111: switch from fluoxetine to vortioxetine

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Sassenach

Hi Phoenix

 

As Alto said

19 hours ago, Altostrata said:

You can expect your symptoms to fluctuate.

It could be Akathisia and you could well experience other symptoms as your CNS settles around the new dose.

 

8 hours ago, Phoenix1111 said:

other vitamins

Are any these "B" vitamins and are they targeted to a specific diagnosed condition?

B vitamins can be activating to a sensitive CNS.

 

Sass


Escitalopram 10mgs from mid 2007 ( can't remember exact date) to 11th Dec 2018

Fentanyl patches ( don't remember dose ) from Nov 2014 to 11 Dec 2018

Quit both cold turkey Dec 2018

Reinstated 3rd March 2019 2.5 mgs.

Updosed  8March to 5mgs and holding

25/11/19 Started taper 4.5mgs and holding

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner

If you are going through Hell, keep going. NCIS series 15, David MaCallum:rolleyes:

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Phoenix1111
8 hours ago, Greenriver said:

I used to want to get off - that was all I thought about. Now I’m not so sure. My depression has been pretty bad on the lower doses of Prozac (2.8mg) coupled with bad brain fog. I don’t think Prozac ever really agreed with me tbh Sertraline did help me years ago but it doesn’t seem to like me anymore. I just got a script today for Citalopram, so will prob try that at 5mg (low dose) after stabilising back on Prozac. After stabilising on the Citalopram I’ll prob try tapering again. 

 

Go as slowly as possible and use intuition. Sometimes on the higher doses of Prozac (above 10mg) you go can faster than 10%. Personally,  for me, once I got below 7mg, I got seriously punished if I went faster than 10%. 

How long have you been on the 2.8mg dose? Did the depression start after the last reduction?


I tapered the mirtazapine and got down to 0.5mg in July and unfortunately realised after it was too late that the last 5 mg should have been tapered much more slowly so i'll have to eventually do that all over again :( 
Prozac will be the last thing i come off but probably not for at least a couple of years as the Mirtazapine gives me the worst side effects but i won't be able to do anything with that until i stabilize from the latest change. Makes me so angry.
Luckily i was able to keep a diary from last time when i was coming off Mirtazapine and i was able to see patterns and where i'd gone wrong or too quickly.

I hope your depression lifts soon, i know how horrible it feels. Sending healing your way 🙂


2000 - Aropax, Zoloft and other various ssri's 

2008?? - Lovan 40mg
2016 Nov - Mirtazapine 15mg after failed Lovan fast taper (didn’t know better)

2017 Dec - Started slow taper - 2019 July 0.5mg (crashed)

2019 July - Mirtazapine 15mg reinstated

2019 Aug - Started Vortioxetine 20mg and stopped Lovan 40mg

2019 Nov 3rd - Stopped Vortioxetine and went back up to 40mg Lovan and holding

2020 Sep - Windows and waves.... still holding on 15mg Mirtazapine and 40mg Lovan

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Phoenix1111
8 hours ago, Sassenach said:

Hi Phoenix

 

As Alto said

It could be Akathisia and you could well experience other symptoms as your CNS settles around the new dose.

 

Are any these "B" vitamins and are they targeted to a specific diagnosed condition?

B vitamins can be activating to a sensitive CNS.

 

Sass

Hi Sass

So far that Akathisia passed after a couple of hours so hopefully it won't be anything that hangs around too long.
The B vitamins are compounded vitamins which were prescribed for my homozygous mthfr a1298c mutation.


2000 - Aropax, Zoloft and other various ssri's 

2008?? - Lovan 40mg
2016 Nov - Mirtazapine 15mg after failed Lovan fast taper (didn’t know better)

2017 Dec - Started slow taper - 2019 July 0.5mg (crashed)

2019 July - Mirtazapine 15mg reinstated

2019 Aug - Started Vortioxetine 20mg and stopped Lovan 40mg

2019 Nov 3rd - Stopped Vortioxetine and went back up to 40mg Lovan and holding

2020 Sep - Windows and waves.... still holding on 15mg Mirtazapine and 40mg Lovan

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Greenriver
On 11/13/2019 at 11:02 PM, Phoenix1111 said:

How long have you been on the 2.8mg dose? Did the depression start after the last reduction?


I tapered the mirtazapine and got down to 0.5mg in July and unfortunately realised after it was too late that the last 5 mg should have been tapered much more slowly so i'll have to eventually do that all over again :( 
Prozac will be the last thing i come off but probably not for at least a couple of years as the Mirtazapine gives me the worst side effects but i won't be able to do anything with that until i stabilize from the latest change. Makes me so angry.
Luckily i was able to keep a diary from last time when i was coming off Mirtazapine and i was able to see patterns and where i'd gone wrong or too quickly.

I hope your depression lifts soon, i know how horrible it feels. Sending healing your way 🙂

Apart from weight-gain, what side-effects do you get from Mirtazapine? My Dr tried to sell me the benefits of Mirtazapibe, saying it has fewer side-effects. I tried it for a week four years ago and it felt horrible. Although, I can see how it would be good for anxiety as I barely needed any Valium the week I was on it. 

 

I’ve been on the 2.8mg dose since April. The depression got worse when I went below 5mg. 

 

Dr has given me a script for Citalopram, 10mg. I was planning on cutting them in half and taking 5mg every day, but the pills are tiny. Tried cutting them with a Stanley knife and they just explode into powder. Might have to make a homemade liquid. 


Past four years: Fluoxetine, 10mg; currently tapered down to 2.8mg. 

Diazepam, 5mg, once daily (goes up to 8mg sometimes during taper). 

1999-2016: Mainly sertraline but also Venlafaxine  and Paroxetine. 

31 Oct: discontinued Fluoxetine.

1 Nov 2019: started Sertraline, 12.5mg, once every two days. 

13 Nov 2019: Reinstated Fluoxetine due to adverse effects from Sertraline. Plan to start Citalopram once stabilised on Fluoxetine 

 

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Phoenix1111
On 11/19/2019 at 12:41 AM, Greenriver said:

Apart from weight-gain, what side-effects do you get from Mirtazapine? My Dr tried to sell me the benefits of Mirtazapibe, saying it has fewer side-effects. I tried it for a week four years ago and it felt horrible. Although, I can see how it would be good for anxiety as I barely needed any Valium the week I was on it. 

 

I’ve been on the 2.8mg dose since April. The depression got worse when I went below 5mg. 

 

Dr has given me a script for Citalopram, 10mg. I was planning on cutting them in half and taking 5mg every day, but the pills are tiny. Tried cutting them with a Stanley knife and they just explode into powder. Might have to make a homemade liquid. 

Hi i definitely noticed a difference in my anxiety with the mirtazapine and it really helped with sleep but it also made me quite groggy and lethargic where i felt like i needed to take naps during the day. I noticed that every night about an hour after taking it i would experience major carb and sugar cravings that are very powerful and hard to control.

Once my system has settled from the most recent change i will be reducing the mirtazapine again, i was hoping since i was down to such a low dose of mirtazapine only 4 months ago that maybe it might allow me to reduce fairly quickly this time but i know it rarely works that way so i will have to be patient and accept the fact that i have to go through the whole withdrawal process all over again. Basically i wasted 18 months of my life withdrawing for nothing :( 


2000 - Aropax, Zoloft and other various ssri's 

2008?? - Lovan 40mg
2016 Nov - Mirtazapine 15mg after failed Lovan fast taper (didn’t know better)

2017 Dec - Started slow taper - 2019 July 0.5mg (crashed)

2019 July - Mirtazapine 15mg reinstated

2019 Aug - Started Vortioxetine 20mg and stopped Lovan 40mg

2019 Nov 3rd - Stopped Vortioxetine and went back up to 40mg Lovan and holding

2020 Sep - Windows and waves.... still holding on 15mg Mirtazapine and 40mg Lovan

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Phoenix1111
On 11/13/2019 at 4:47 AM, Sassenach said:

Good luck Phoenix.

 

Please keep us advised of your progress.

 

Sass

Hi Sass,
 

Just an update, i noticed some head spins and withdrawal headache yesterday and today i am feeling like i'm just on the cusp of a panic attack, like it could hit any moment but i stupidly drank some pepsi max at dinner and i'm thinking that was a really bad idea.


2000 - Aropax, Zoloft and other various ssri's 

2008?? - Lovan 40mg
2016 Nov - Mirtazapine 15mg after failed Lovan fast taper (didn’t know better)

2017 Dec - Started slow taper - 2019 July 0.5mg (crashed)

2019 July - Mirtazapine 15mg reinstated

2019 Aug - Started Vortioxetine 20mg and stopped Lovan 40mg

2019 Nov 3rd - Stopped Vortioxetine and went back up to 40mg Lovan and holding

2020 Sep - Windows and waves.... still holding on 15mg Mirtazapine and 40mg Lovan

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Sassenach

Hi Phoenix.

 

Caffeine of any sort is not good in recovery, or indeed any other stimulant.

"019 Oct - Went down to Vortioxetine 10mg and back to 20mg Lovan

2019 Nov 3rd - Stopped Vortioxetine and went back up to 40mg Lovan

2019 Oct - Diazepam 2.5mg (only when absolutely necessary)
2019 Nov 12th - Went back down to 20mg Lovan"

 

All the above happened in the last 6 weeks so some symptoms are inevitable.

Stabilisation is about reducing symptoms to a bearable level.

So far you are doing well, if you notice any major increase please let us know.

 

Sass


Escitalopram 10mgs from mid 2007 ( can't remember exact date) to 11th Dec 2018

Fentanyl patches ( don't remember dose ) from Nov 2014 to 11 Dec 2018

Quit both cold turkey Dec 2018

Reinstated 3rd March 2019 2.5 mgs.

Updosed  8March to 5mgs and holding

25/11/19 Started taper 4.5mgs and holding

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner

If you are going through Hell, keep going. NCIS series 15, David MaCallum:rolleyes:

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Phoenix1111
On 11/22/2019 at 2:53 AM, Sassenach said:

Hi Phoenix.

 

Caffeine of any sort is not good in recovery, or indeed any other stimulant.

"019 Oct - Went down to Vortioxetine 10mg and back to 20mg Lovan

2019 Nov 3rd - Stopped Vortioxetine and went back up to 40mg Lovan

2019 Oct - Diazepam 2.5mg (only when absolutely necessary)
2019 Nov 12th - Went back down to 20mg Lovan"

 

All the above happened in the last 6 weeks so some symptoms are inevitable.

Stabilisation is about reducing symptoms to a bearable level.

So far you are doing well, if you notice any major increase please let us know.

 

Sass

Thanks Sass,

 

Today has been rougher, i awoke early this morning crying in my sleep (nightmare i think), and also had a splitting headache. Have felt completely wiped out and feeling right on the brink of panic and scared i can't do this.


2000 - Aropax, Zoloft and other various ssri's 

2008?? - Lovan 40mg
2016 Nov - Mirtazapine 15mg after failed Lovan fast taper (didn’t know better)

2017 Dec - Started slow taper - 2019 July 0.5mg (crashed)

2019 July - Mirtazapine 15mg reinstated

2019 Aug - Started Vortioxetine 20mg and stopped Lovan 40mg

2019 Nov 3rd - Stopped Vortioxetine and went back up to 40mg Lovan and holding

2020 Sep - Windows and waves.... still holding on 15mg Mirtazapine and 40mg Lovan

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Sassenach

Hi Phoenix

 

It is less than two weeks since the last dose change.so it is bound to be bumpy for a while.

On 11/23/2019 at 5:24 AM, Phoenix1111 said:

Have felt completely wiped out and feeling right on the brink of panic and scared i can't do this.

You can do it.

We all feel that way at some point but our bodies are incredibly resilient.

It is important to remember that these terrible and sometimes terrifying symptoms are a product of our unstable CNS.

They are not real, just a cruel trick played by our unhappy brains.

http://anxietystuff.weebly.com/

non-drug-techniques-to-cope-with-emotional-symptoms/

dealing-with-emotional-spirals/

the-dr-claire-weekes-method-of-recovering-from-a-sensitized-nervous-system/

 

On 4/27/2017 at 7:03 PM, brassmonkey said:

 

AAF: Acknowledge, Accept, Float.  It's what you have to do when nothing else works, and can be a very powerful tool in coping with anxiety.  The neuroemotional anxiety many of us feel during WD is directly caused by the drugs and their chemical reactions in the brain.  Making it so there is nothing we can do about them.  They won't respond to other drugs, relaxation techniques and the like.  They do, however, react very well to being ignored.  That's the concept behind AAF.  Acknowledge, get to know the feeling involved, explore them.  Accept, These feelings are a part of you and they aren't going anywhere fast. Float, let the feeling float off as you get on with your life as best as you can.  It's a well documented fact that the more you feed in to anxiety the worse it gets.  What starts as generalized neuroemotinal anxiety can be easily blown into a full fledged panic attack just by thinking about it.

 

I often liken it to an unwanted house guest.  At first you talk to them, have conversations, communicate with them.  After a while you figure out that they aren't leaving and there is nothing you can do to get rid of them.  So you go on about your day, working around them until they get bored and leave.

 

It can take some practice, but AAF really does work.  I hope you give it a try.

The following may help you yo understand what is happening to you and why time is the only healer.

 
On 12/3/2015 at 3:41 PM, apace41 said:

Basically- you have a building where the MAJOR steel structures are trying to be rebuilt at different times - ALL while people are coming and going in the building and attempting to work.

It would be like if the World Trade Center Towers hadn't completely fallen - but had crumbled inside in different places.. Imagine if you were trying to rebuild the tower - WHILE people were coming and going and trying to work in the building!  You'd have to set up a temporary elevator - but when you needed to fix part of that area, you'd have to tear down that elevator and set up a temporary elevator somewhere else. And so on. You'd have to build, work around, then tear down, then build again, then work around, then build... ALL while people are coming and going, ALL while the furniture is being replaced, ALL while the walls are getting repainted... ALL while life is going on INSIDE the building. No doubt it would be chaotic. That is EXACTLY what is happening with windows and waves.  The windows are where the body has "got it right" for a day or so - but then the building shifts and the brain works on something else - and it's chaos again while another temporary pathway is set up to reroute function until repairs are made.  

Yoga, meditation and mindfullness help many members.

Check out the symptoms and selfcare forum.

Hope you feel better shortly.

 

Sass

 


Escitalopram 10mgs from mid 2007 ( can't remember exact date) to 11th Dec 2018

Fentanyl patches ( don't remember dose ) from Nov 2014 to 11 Dec 2018

Quit both cold turkey Dec 2018

Reinstated 3rd March 2019 2.5 mgs.

Updosed  8March to 5mgs and holding

25/11/19 Started taper 4.5mgs and holding

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner

If you are going through Hell, keep going. NCIS series 15, David MaCallum:rolleyes:

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Phoenix1111
8 hours ago, Sassenach said:

Hi Phoenix

 

It is less than two weeks since the last dose change.so it is bound to be bumpy for a while.

You can do it.

We all feel that way at some point but our bodies are incredibly resilient.

It is important to remember that these terrible and sometimes terrifying symptoms are a product of our unstable CNS.

They are not real, just a cruel trick played by our unhappy brains.

http://anxietystuff.weebly.com/

non-drug-techniques-to-cope-with-emotional-symptoms/

dealing-with-emotional-spirals/

the-dr-claire-weekes-method-of-recovering-from-a-sensitized-nervous-system/

 

 

AAF: Acknowledge, Accept, Float.  It's what you have to do when nothing else works, and can be a very powerful tool in coping with anxiety.  The neuroemotional anxiety many of us feel during WD is directly caused by the drugs and their chemical reactions in the brain.  Making it so there is nothing we can do about them.  They won't respond to other drugs, relaxation techniques and the like.  They do, however, react very well to being ignored.  That's the concept behind AAF.  Acknowledge, get to know the feeling involved, explore them.  Accept, These feelings are a part of you and they aren't going anywhere fast. Float, let the feeling float off as you get on with your life as best as you can.  It's a well documented fact that the more you feed in to anxiety the worse it gets.  What starts as generalized neuroemotinal anxiety can be easily blown into a full fledged panic attack just by thinking about it.

 

I often liken it to an unwanted house guest.  At first you talk to them, have conversations, communicate with them.  After a while you figure out that they aren't leaving and there is nothing you can do to get rid of them.  So you go on about your day, working around them until they get bored and leave.

 

It can take some practice, but AAF really does work.  I hope you give it a try.

The following may help you yo understand what is happening to you and why time is the only healer.

Basically- you have a building where the MAJOR steel structures are trying to be rebuilt at different times - ALL while people are coming and going in the building and attempting to work.

It would be like if the World Trade Center Towers hadn't completely fallen - but had crumbled inside in different places.. Imagine if you were trying to rebuild the tower - WHILE people were coming and going and trying to work in the building!  You'd have to set up a temporary elevator - but when you needed to fix part of that area, you'd have to tear down that elevator and set up a temporary elevator somewhere else. And so on. You'd have to build, work around, then tear down, then build again, then work around, then build... ALL while people are coming and going, ALL while the furniture is being replaced, ALL while the walls are getting repainted... ALL while life is going on INSIDE the building. No doubt it would be chaotic. That is EXACTLY what is happening with windows and waves.  The windows are where the body has "got it right" for a day or so - but then the building shifts and the brain works on something else - and it's chaos again while another temporary pathway is set up to reroute function until repairs are made.  

Yoga, meditation and mindfullness help many members.

Check out the symptoms and selfcare forum.

Hope you feel better shortly.

 

Sass

 

Thanks so much Sass


2000 - Aropax, Zoloft and other various ssri's 

2008?? - Lovan 40mg
2016 Nov - Mirtazapine 15mg after failed Lovan fast taper (didn’t know better)

2017 Dec - Started slow taper - 2019 July 0.5mg (crashed)

2019 July - Mirtazapine 15mg reinstated

2019 Aug - Started Vortioxetine 20mg and stopped Lovan 40mg

2019 Nov 3rd - Stopped Vortioxetine and went back up to 40mg Lovan and holding

2020 Sep - Windows and waves.... still holding on 15mg Mirtazapine and 40mg Lovan

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Phoenix1111

I'm struggling with very low mood and feeling helpless and frustrated and while i know this is withdrawal and to be expected i just can't help but feel like i've probably got AT LEAST 3 years of this ahead of me, so not only have i lost all my late teens and 20's but by the time i am off them i will have pissed away all of my 30's too.

F**K big pharma, this is criminal and they should be held accountable for doing this to people!
And instead of coming off the Mirtazapine which has given me the worst problems i am now having to withdraw from something i was only on for 6 weeks that was used to 'cross taper' but has actually made an already big issue even worse. I spent 18 months of my life tapering off Mirtazapine only to go back on (didn't know any better) and now i have to start at square one. Oh and also i am trying to find another job since my position was made redundant a few months ago. Life just keeps on giving! 😡

 

Any encouragement would be great right about now. I know admin and moderators are slammed from all the activity but basically a chat with anyone would be helpful 


2000 - Aropax, Zoloft and other various ssri's 

2008?? - Lovan 40mg
2016 Nov - Mirtazapine 15mg after failed Lovan fast taper (didn’t know better)

2017 Dec - Started slow taper - 2019 July 0.5mg (crashed)

2019 July - Mirtazapine 15mg reinstated

2019 Aug - Started Vortioxetine 20mg and stopped Lovan 40mg

2019 Nov 3rd - Stopped Vortioxetine and went back up to 40mg Lovan and holding

2020 Sep - Windows and waves.... still holding on 15mg Mirtazapine and 40mg Lovan

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Sassenach

Hi Phoenix

 

Apologies for delay.

Are you feeling any better now?

 

Sass


Escitalopram 10mgs from mid 2007 ( can't remember exact date) to 11th Dec 2018

Fentanyl patches ( don't remember dose ) from Nov 2014 to 11 Dec 2018

Quit both cold turkey Dec 2018

Reinstated 3rd March 2019 2.5 mgs.

Updosed  8March to 5mgs and holding

25/11/19 Started taper 4.5mgs and holding

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner

If you are going through Hell, keep going. NCIS series 15, David MaCallum:rolleyes:

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Phoenix1111
7 hours ago, Sassenach said:

Hi Phoenix

 

Apologies for delay.

Are you feeling any better now?

 

Sass

Hi Sass,

 

Feeling better today than i was the other day, i'm hoping i've turned a corner but it's way too early to tell and i know withdrawal can be very unpredictable.
How long of feeling better would mean that i am out of the woods??


2000 - Aropax, Zoloft and other various ssri's 

2008?? - Lovan 40mg
2016 Nov - Mirtazapine 15mg after failed Lovan fast taper (didn’t know better)

2017 Dec - Started slow taper - 2019 July 0.5mg (crashed)

2019 July - Mirtazapine 15mg reinstated

2019 Aug - Started Vortioxetine 20mg and stopped Lovan 40mg

2019 Nov 3rd - Stopped Vortioxetine and went back up to 40mg Lovan and holding

2020 Sep - Windows and waves.... still holding on 15mg Mirtazapine and 40mg Lovan

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Sassenach

Hi Phoenix

17 hours ago, Phoenix1111 said:

How long of feeling better would mean that i am out of the woods??

Noone knows the answer and we are all different.

I can tell you that coming through a wave and then feeling a little better as now is part of an unpredictable overall pattern.

We do not look for highs and lows but a slowly improving base line, like three steps forward, two steps back.

The forwards get longer and back shorter, the highs better and the lows not quite so low.

It is frustrating but as near a pattern as we can get.

The single most important objective is to stay strong, do not be tempted to make changes and let your body do the work.

It cannot be hurried but can be helped by selfcare.

Keep in touch, we are here if you need us.

 

Sass


Escitalopram 10mgs from mid 2007 ( can't remember exact date) to 11th Dec 2018

Fentanyl patches ( don't remember dose ) from Nov 2014 to 11 Dec 2018

Quit both cold turkey Dec 2018

Reinstated 3rd March 2019 2.5 mgs.

Updosed  8March to 5mgs and holding

25/11/19 Started taper 4.5mgs and holding

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner

If you are going through Hell, keep going. NCIS series 15, David MaCallum:rolleyes:

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Phoenix1111
3 hours ago, Sassenach said:

Hi Phoenix

Noone knows the answer and we are all different.

I can tell you that coming through a wave and then feeling a little better as now is part of an unpredictable overall pattern.

We do not look for highs and lows but a slowly improving base line, like three steps forward, two steps back.

The forwards get longer and back shorter, the highs better and the lows not quite so low.

It is frustrating but as near a pattern as we can get.

The single most important objective is to stay strong, do not be tempted to make changes and let your body do the work.

It cannot be hurried but can be helped by selfcare.

Keep in touch, we are here if you need us.

 

Sass

Thanks Sass,

I understand what you're saying but like what happens with people like me who have multiple meds to wean off of, how do you know when the right time is to wean off the next medication?


2000 - Aropax, Zoloft and other various ssri's 

2008?? - Lovan 40mg
2016 Nov - Mirtazapine 15mg after failed Lovan fast taper (didn’t know better)

2017 Dec - Started slow taper - 2019 July 0.5mg (crashed)

2019 July - Mirtazapine 15mg reinstated

2019 Aug - Started Vortioxetine 20mg and stopped Lovan 40mg

2019 Nov 3rd - Stopped Vortioxetine and went back up to 40mg Lovan and holding

2020 Sep - Windows and waves.... still holding on 15mg Mirtazapine and 40mg Lovan

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Phoenix1111

The anxiety has ramped up again and for the past couple of hours i've felt on the brink of panic. Also feeling VERY irritable and negative etc

I can't help but fear i may not yet have seen the full brunt of the med changes (listed below), i worry how much worse will this get??
SO hard to stay positive right now and to have the will to keep going, i mean i will keep going i have no other choice but having come from 18 months of withdrawal (failed attempt at weaning mirtazapine) to this now and know i have years to go i just don't know if i have it in me, i'm so tired and fed up.

Hating everything right now 😡

I'd probably cry if i could but alas i can't seem to do that either 


2000 - Aropax, Zoloft and other various ssri's 

2008?? - Lovan 40mg
2016 Nov - Mirtazapine 15mg after failed Lovan fast taper (didn’t know better)

2017 Dec - Started slow taper - 2019 July 0.5mg (crashed)

2019 July - Mirtazapine 15mg reinstated

2019 Aug - Started Vortioxetine 20mg and stopped Lovan 40mg

2019 Nov 3rd - Stopped Vortioxetine and went back up to 40mg Lovan and holding

2020 Sep - Windows and waves.... still holding on 15mg Mirtazapine and 40mg Lovan

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Phoenix1111

Hi @Sassenach

I am really scared, i was just reading about antidepressant withdrawal and they were saying that being on these drugs increases likelihood of relapse so that people are unable to stay off them.
I'm so scared because i have been on them for 20 years and terrified i'll never be able to fully be free of them and that maybe they have caused permanent damage.
Do you know of any cases where people have been on them for decades and polydrugged and have been successful at eliminating them?
I feel so hopeless and scared right now.

 

This quote from the article is what set me off:

image.png.28f639ea598417007b74d3548df88958.png

Sorry not trying to freak anyone else out who's reading this, i'm just terrified :(

 


2000 - Aropax, Zoloft and other various ssri's 

2008?? - Lovan 40mg
2016 Nov - Mirtazapine 15mg after failed Lovan fast taper (didn’t know better)

2017 Dec - Started slow taper - 2019 July 0.5mg (crashed)

2019 July - Mirtazapine 15mg reinstated

2019 Aug - Started Vortioxetine 20mg and stopped Lovan 40mg

2019 Nov 3rd - Stopped Vortioxetine and went back up to 40mg Lovan and holding

2020 Sep - Windows and waves.... still holding on 15mg Mirtazapine and 40mg Lovan

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Sassenach

Hi Phoenix

 

Looks like old info.

If you think about it logically it is obvious info.

The longer anyone is taking an A/D the more times they are likely to try and stop.

As we are only just beginning to get message about these drugs heard it is no surprise so many failed.

Doctors and psychs tell us to just stop taking them and when we hit W/D, they say original condition returning, back onto drugs.

On SA we know the right way to do it.

What are your current symptoms?

Do you feel better or worse after taking Lovan?

 

Sass


Escitalopram 10mgs from mid 2007 ( can't remember exact date) to 11th Dec 2018

Fentanyl patches ( don't remember dose ) from Nov 2014 to 11 Dec 2018

Quit both cold turkey Dec 2018

Reinstated 3rd March 2019 2.5 mgs.

Updosed  8March to 5mgs and holding

25/11/19 Started taper 4.5mgs and holding

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner

If you are going through Hell, keep going. NCIS series 15, David MaCallum:rolleyes:

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Phoenix1111
3 hours ago, Sassenach said:

Hi Phoenix

 

Looks like old info.

If you think about it logically it is obvious info.

The longer anyone is taking an A/D the more times they are likely to try and stop.

As we are only just beginning to get message about these drugs heard it is no surprise so many failed.

Doctors and psychs tell us to just stop taking them and when we hit W/D, they say original condition returning, back onto drugs.

On SA we know the right way to do it.

What are your current symptoms?

Do you feel better or worse after taking Lovan?

 

Sass

Thanks Sass,

It does help to read that 🙂

Well it's 7:45am here and i just woke with a headache and anxiety, yesterday my mood was low and very irritable and teary.
Do you mean do i feel better each time i take the Lovan or just better in general since going back on it? I definitely feel that the reduction in Lovan has been difficult with withdrawal cos i was on twice the dose that i am now but also stopping the Vortioxetine is part of that too.


2000 - Aropax, Zoloft and other various ssri's 

2008?? - Lovan 40mg
2016 Nov - Mirtazapine 15mg after failed Lovan fast taper (didn’t know better)

2017 Dec - Started slow taper - 2019 July 0.5mg (crashed)

2019 July - Mirtazapine 15mg reinstated

2019 Aug - Started Vortioxetine 20mg and stopped Lovan 40mg

2019 Nov 3rd - Stopped Vortioxetine and went back up to 40mg Lovan and holding

2020 Sep - Windows and waves.... still holding on 15mg Mirtazapine and 40mg Lovan

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Phoenix1111

Ok so now i have some insomnia or at least trouble staying asleep it's so scary and i feel like a zombie.

Also was awakened from sleep at 5:30am with fear and vomited 


2000 - Aropax, Zoloft and other various ssri's 

2008?? - Lovan 40mg
2016 Nov - Mirtazapine 15mg after failed Lovan fast taper (didn’t know better)

2017 Dec - Started slow taper - 2019 July 0.5mg (crashed)

2019 July - Mirtazapine 15mg reinstated

2019 Aug - Started Vortioxetine 20mg and stopped Lovan 40mg

2019 Nov 3rd - Stopped Vortioxetine and went back up to 40mg Lovan and holding

2020 Sep - Windows and waves.... still holding on 15mg Mirtazapine and 40mg Lovan

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Sassenach

Hi Phoenix

 

I have edited your dug signature to highlight the fact you were on 3 A/Ds for 3 months.

Do you take Lovan and Mirtazapine together at the same time every day?

What are your current symptoms?

On 12/6/2019 at 8:52 PM, Phoenix1111 said:

Do you mean do i feel better each time i take the Lovan

Do you feel better or worse before and after taking both above and Mirt.

I will ask @Altostrata for her comments.

 

Sass


Escitalopram 10mgs from mid 2007 ( can't remember exact date) to 11th Dec 2018

Fentanyl patches ( don't remember dose ) from Nov 2014 to 11 Dec 2018

Quit both cold turkey Dec 2018

Reinstated 3rd March 2019 2.5 mgs.

Updosed  8March to 5mgs and holding

25/11/19 Started taper 4.5mgs and holding

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner

If you are going through Hell, keep going. NCIS series 15, David MaCallum:rolleyes:

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Phoenix1111
14 hours ago, Sassenach said:

Hi Phoenix

 

I have edited your dug signature to highlight the fact you were on 3 A/Ds for 3 months.

Do you take Lovan and Mirtazapine together at the same time every day?

What are your current symptoms?

Do you feel better or worse before and after taking both above and Mirt.

I will ask @Altostrata for her comments.

 

Sass

Hi Sass,

So when i was on the Vortioxetine i had stopped the Lovan, then when i decided to stop the Vortioxetine i went back on the Lovan. The Mirtazapine has remained the same since July.

I take the Lovan and Mirtazapine at the same time every night and i am usually more relaxed after taking it, i've always taken them both together at night for years and never noticed any issues.


After having a few rocky days and very restless nights of not enough sleep, i managed to have a really good day today and i actually felt back to 'normal', but i know better than to assume it's smooth sailing from here and it could possibly just be the calm before the storm.

Hopefully i am past the worst of it but only time will tell.


2000 - Aropax, Zoloft and other various ssri's 

2008?? - Lovan 40mg
2016 Nov - Mirtazapine 15mg after failed Lovan fast taper (didn’t know better)

2017 Dec - Started slow taper - 2019 July 0.5mg (crashed)

2019 July - Mirtazapine 15mg reinstated

2019 Aug - Started Vortioxetine 20mg and stopped Lovan 40mg

2019 Nov 3rd - Stopped Vortioxetine and went back up to 40mg Lovan and holding

2020 Sep - Windows and waves.... still holding on 15mg Mirtazapine and 40mg Lovan

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Sassenach

Hi Phoenix

 

Will not pretend you are past the worst as noone knows.

However once you have a window you will have more and they will slowly get longer and better.

Every day that passes your CNS settles a little.

If you are not doing so you should keep a diary, it is surprising how quickly we forget good days when we have a bad one.

7 hours ago, Phoenix1111 said:

So when i was on the Vortioxetine i had stopped the Lovan, then when i decided to stop the Vortioxetine i went back on the Lovan. The Mirtazapine has remained the same since July.

Time and patience will get you there.

 

Sass


Escitalopram 10mgs from mid 2007 ( can't remember exact date) to 11th Dec 2018

Fentanyl patches ( don't remember dose ) from Nov 2014 to 11 Dec 2018

Quit both cold turkey Dec 2018

Reinstated 3rd March 2019 2.5 mgs.

Updosed  8March to 5mgs and holding

25/11/19 Started taper 4.5mgs and holding

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner

If you are going through Hell, keep going. NCIS series 15, David MaCallum:rolleyes:

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Phoenix1111
8 hours ago, Sassenach said:

Hi Phoenix

 

Will not pretend you are past the worst as noone knows.

However once you have a window you will have more and they will slowly get longer and better.

Every day that passes your CNS settles a little.

If you are not doing so you should keep a diary, it is surprising how quickly we forget good days when we have a bad one.

Time and patience will get you there.

 

Sass

Yes i have been religiously journaling every day.

Thanks Sass :)


2000 - Aropax, Zoloft and other various ssri's 

2008?? - Lovan 40mg
2016 Nov - Mirtazapine 15mg after failed Lovan fast taper (didn’t know better)

2017 Dec - Started slow taper - 2019 July 0.5mg (crashed)

2019 July - Mirtazapine 15mg reinstated

2019 Aug - Started Vortioxetine 20mg and stopped Lovan 40mg

2019 Nov 3rd - Stopped Vortioxetine and went back up to 40mg Lovan and holding

2020 Sep - Windows and waves.... still holding on 15mg Mirtazapine and 40mg Lovan

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Altostrata

Phoenix, what drugs are you taking now, at what times of day?

 

How are you feeling now?


This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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Phoenix1111
2 hours ago, Altostrata said:

Phoenix, what drugs are you taking now, at what times of day?

 

How are you feeling now?

 

Hi Alto,

I am just taking Lovan 20mg and Mirtazapine 15mg at around 8pm every night, plus Magnesium and NeuroCalm which is a natural supplement with Passion flower, Magnolia, Kudzu vine and Zizyphus in it. The magnesium and NeuroCalm seem to help when i feel like i'm about to panic, it seems to calm me, also epsom salt baths are good too (i am surprised how effective they can be). I last had Diazepam 2mg over a month ago which was a one off as i was in a desperate state, i am however avoiding it like the plague.


My sleep seems to be good again, anxiety not too bad at the moment (but that can change very quickly). I have been quite low in my mood the last 5 days or so and having random uncontrollable crying spells, i had one last night for about an hour and woke up today with swollen eyes. As much as this all sucks i'd prefer it over the fear/terror that can come on from withdrawal (i'd basically prefer anything to that really).
Hope everyone else is doing well 🙂


2000 - Aropax, Zoloft and other various ssri's 

2008?? - Lovan 40mg
2016 Nov - Mirtazapine 15mg after failed Lovan fast taper (didn’t know better)

2017 Dec - Started slow taper - 2019 July 0.5mg (crashed)

2019 July - Mirtazapine 15mg reinstated

2019 Aug - Started Vortioxetine 20mg and stopped Lovan 40mg

2019 Nov 3rd - Stopped Vortioxetine and went back up to 40mg Lovan and holding

2020 Sep - Windows and waves.... still holding on 15mg Mirtazapine and 40mg Lovan

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Phoenix1111

Also i'm trying to stay positive but can't help but feel fear of being randomly hit with severe withdrawal when i least expect it, it's almost like i have anticipatory anxiety. I had that happen when i was coming off the Mirtazapine and it really scared me.


2000 - Aropax, Zoloft and other various ssri's 

2008?? - Lovan 40mg
2016 Nov - Mirtazapine 15mg after failed Lovan fast taper (didn’t know better)

2017 Dec - Started slow taper - 2019 July 0.5mg (crashed)

2019 July - Mirtazapine 15mg reinstated

2019 Aug - Started Vortioxetine 20mg and stopped Lovan 40mg

2019 Nov 3rd - Stopped Vortioxetine and went back up to 40mg Lovan and holding

2020 Sep - Windows and waves.... still holding on 15mg Mirtazapine and 40mg Lovan

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Erell

Hi Phoenix 

 

6 hours ago, Phoenix1111 said:

Also i'm trying to stay positive but can't help but feel fear of being randomly hit with severe withdrawal when i least expect it, it's almost like i have anticipatory anxiety. 

I utterly understand this  : hard To Forget about those extreme levels of anxiety once you've discovered them. 

 

However, this "fear of the fear" does not help us : it is important To try To practice regularly nondrug techniques To Cope. 

 

Have you, for example, tried To practice mindfullness? It doesnt do miracles and requires time, but with practice it really can help with those kind of intrusive thoughts. 

 

Best wishes !


2006 : 20mg Paroxetine + Bromazepam(no specific dose) 

2008 : cold turkey of both

2010 : 20mg Deroxat + Bromazepam

2013: Switch from Bromazepam To Prazepam (long half-life)

2014-June2017 : Prazepam taper, 3% drops. 

2018 to August 2019 : Paroxetine 20mg taper (3% every 15 days).

- 22nd August updosed To 10mg (was at 8.4mg) because of a big wave. 

25th Sept 2019 To April 2020 : found SA, holding at 10mg Paroxetine. 

 

April 2020-August 2020 : Paxil to Prozac bridge. Details https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/21457-erell-struggling-with-paroxetine/?do=findComment&comment=499847

 

Current Supplements : magnesium citrate/ fish oil/ evening primrose oil 

 

Current medication :

7mg Fluoxetine + toothpick Paroxetine (since 20 Aug 2020)

1mg Diazepam (since 29 Aug 2020)

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Phoenix1111
5 hours ago, Erell said:

Hi Phoenix 

 

I utterly understand this  : hard To Forget about those extreme levels of anxiety once you've discovered them. 

 

However, this "fear of the fear" does not help us : it is important To try To practice regularly nondrug techniques To Cope. 

 

Have you, for example, tried To practice mindfullness? It doesnt do miracles and requires time, but with practice it really can help with those kind of intrusive thoughts. 

 

Best wishes !

Hi Erell,

Yes i do try to meditate although i haven't done it for a couple of days, it seems harder to do it the worse i feel which is frustrating because that's when i need to do it the most.

 

Thanks for your kind message :)


2000 - Aropax, Zoloft and other various ssri's 

2008?? - Lovan 40mg
2016 Nov - Mirtazapine 15mg after failed Lovan fast taper (didn’t know better)

2017 Dec - Started slow taper - 2019 July 0.5mg (crashed)

2019 July - Mirtazapine 15mg reinstated

2019 Aug - Started Vortioxetine 20mg and stopped Lovan 40mg

2019 Nov 3rd - Stopped Vortioxetine and went back up to 40mg Lovan and holding

2020 Sep - Windows and waves.... still holding on 15mg Mirtazapine and 40mg Lovan

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Erell

Hi Phoenix, 

 

yes I uttely understand, I sometimes feel like I can't meditate at all!

As time passes we will feel better ❤️


2006 : 20mg Paroxetine + Bromazepam(no specific dose) 

2008 : cold turkey of both

2010 : 20mg Deroxat + Bromazepam

2013: Switch from Bromazepam To Prazepam (long half-life)

2014-June2017 : Prazepam taper, 3% drops. 

2018 to August 2019 : Paroxetine 20mg taper (3% every 15 days).

- 22nd August updosed To 10mg (was at 8.4mg) because of a big wave. 

25th Sept 2019 To April 2020 : found SA, holding at 10mg Paroxetine. 

 

April 2020-August 2020 : Paxil to Prozac bridge. Details https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/21457-erell-struggling-with-paroxetine/?do=findComment&comment=499847

 

Current Supplements : magnesium citrate/ fish oil/ evening primrose oil 

 

Current medication :

7mg Fluoxetine + toothpick Paroxetine (since 20 Aug 2020)

1mg Diazepam (since 29 Aug 2020)

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Phoenix1111
8 hours ago, Erell said:

Hi Phoenix, 

 

yes I uttely understand, I sometimes feel like I can't meditate at all!

As time passes we will feel better ❤️

Hi Erell,

 

Can't wait to feel better!
How are you doing with your tapering?


2000 - Aropax, Zoloft and other various ssri's 

2008?? - Lovan 40mg
2016 Nov - Mirtazapine 15mg after failed Lovan fast taper (didn’t know better)

2017 Dec - Started slow taper - 2019 July 0.5mg (crashed)

2019 July - Mirtazapine 15mg reinstated

2019 Aug - Started Vortioxetine 20mg and stopped Lovan 40mg

2019 Nov 3rd - Stopped Vortioxetine and went back up to 40mg Lovan and holding

2020 Sep - Windows and waves.... still holding on 15mg Mirtazapine and 40mg Lovan

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Erell
21 hours ago, Phoenix1111 said:

Can't wait to feel better!

You Will. 🤗

 

I'm not tappering for now but holding since September and waiting for stabilisation  ;)

 

Hugs


2006 : 20mg Paroxetine + Bromazepam(no specific dose) 

2008 : cold turkey of both

2010 : 20mg Deroxat + Bromazepam

2013: Switch from Bromazepam To Prazepam (long half-life)

2014-June2017 : Prazepam taper, 3% drops. 

2018 to August 2019 : Paroxetine 20mg taper (3% every 15 days).

- 22nd August updosed To 10mg (was at 8.4mg) because of a big wave. 

25th Sept 2019 To April 2020 : found SA, holding at 10mg Paroxetine. 

 

April 2020-August 2020 : Paxil to Prozac bridge. Details https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/21457-erell-struggling-with-paroxetine/?do=findComment&comment=499847

 

Current Supplements : magnesium citrate/ fish oil/ evening primrose oil 

 

Current medication :

7mg Fluoxetine + toothpick Paroxetine (since 20 Aug 2020)

1mg Diazepam (since 29 Aug 2020)

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Phoenix1111

So today i have noticed i am having moments where i felt like panic is imminent but like that dark cloud of feeling completely overcome with terror is rolling over and feeling like i might not be able to cope etc. 
What do i do if it gets to be unbearable for longer than just 10 mins? I honestly don't know how i will get through it and I'm starting to freak out about what will happen :(

So far i have managed to get through and it seems to randomly come out of no where then disappear, then come back again 🤷‍♀️ 


2000 - Aropax, Zoloft and other various ssri's 

2008?? - Lovan 40mg
2016 Nov - Mirtazapine 15mg after failed Lovan fast taper (didn’t know better)

2017 Dec - Started slow taper - 2019 July 0.5mg (crashed)

2019 July - Mirtazapine 15mg reinstated

2019 Aug - Started Vortioxetine 20mg and stopped Lovan 40mg

2019 Nov 3rd - Stopped Vortioxetine and went back up to 40mg Lovan and holding

2020 Sep - Windows and waves.... still holding on 15mg Mirtazapine and 40mg Lovan

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Phoenix1111

So i know that it's probably neuro emotions but i have been so irritable and short with people and actually feeling quite angry and frustrated at times which makes me feel like isolating myself, then later in the day i happened upon a subject that i thought i had worked through years ago and it triggered me a lot, like i read one sentence and it set off panic in me (WTF?!)
The emotion behind it feel so real and convincing that it makes me question everything, man this really sucks! 😩


2000 - Aropax, Zoloft and other various ssri's 

2008?? - Lovan 40mg
2016 Nov - Mirtazapine 15mg after failed Lovan fast taper (didn’t know better)

2017 Dec - Started slow taper - 2019 July 0.5mg (crashed)

2019 July - Mirtazapine 15mg reinstated

2019 Aug - Started Vortioxetine 20mg and stopped Lovan 40mg

2019 Nov 3rd - Stopped Vortioxetine and went back up to 40mg Lovan and holding

2020 Sep - Windows and waves.... still holding on 15mg Mirtazapine and 40mg Lovan

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Phoenix1111

So i have ended up staying home alone for Christmas because i have a bad head cold and have been losing my voice on and off. Of course being sick has made withdrawal way worse and i have been crying for the past hour straight and it feels like i can't stop, will i ever have a life again?? 😢


2000 - Aropax, Zoloft and other various ssri's 

2008?? - Lovan 40mg
2016 Nov - Mirtazapine 15mg after failed Lovan fast taper (didn’t know better)

2017 Dec - Started slow taper - 2019 July 0.5mg (crashed)

2019 July - Mirtazapine 15mg reinstated

2019 Aug - Started Vortioxetine 20mg and stopped Lovan 40mg

2019 Nov 3rd - Stopped Vortioxetine and went back up to 40mg Lovan and holding

2020 Sep - Windows and waves.... still holding on 15mg Mirtazapine and 40mg Lovan

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Sassenach

I phoenix

I have just been through the same thing the combination of a bad cold and and withdrawal is about as rough as it gets.

Feeling better now though so and so will you.

There will be plenty more christmases and you will feel much better.

Make the best you can have the holidays 2020 will be b&r year for getting better.

Sass


Escitalopram 10mgs from mid 2007 ( can't remember exact date) to 11th Dec 2018

Fentanyl patches ( don't remember dose ) from Nov 2014 to 11 Dec 2018

Quit both cold turkey Dec 2018

Reinstated 3rd March 2019 2.5 mgs.

Updosed  8March to 5mgs and holding

25/11/19 Started taper 4.5mgs and holding

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner

If you are going through Hell, keep going. NCIS series 15, David MaCallum:rolleyes:

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