lucidity: Lexapro off but reinstating?

[lucidity]

My problems began in January 2019 with a spontaneous kundalini awakening (which  I suppose would be kundalini syndrome, given all the negatives I've encountered).  I realize this is an uncommon thing, so for those who don't wish to google it, it is an intensification of everything, and can closely resemble antidepressant withdrawal.  After periods of bliss came extreme anxiety.  So much so, I decided to taper off of lexapro MUCH too quickly, mistakenly believing it was no longer controlling my anxiety.  I had been taking SSRIs off and on (mostly on) for the past 23 years.   I had already lost my ability to concentrate and given up my business.  I no longer had interest in anything.

 

Anyway, I "successfully" tapered within about 6 weeks and decided to just power through all the negatives.  I felt I was slowly but surely getting better until about 2 months ago, when anxiety flared up again and I decided to try holotropic breathwork to "reset my brain."  NEVER DO THIS in this state! The days-long panic and agony that came after has been indescribable.  Ever since then, I get daily panic attacks and fear that I will not die, but will instead have to keep living this way.  Yesterday, in desperation I reinstated a smallish dose of zoloft (12.5mg) which seemed to help somewhat, but gave more anxiety at different times of the day.  At this point, I think reinstatement is my only option despite several months off of all of this, but have a question for the community.  Are there any known benefits/drawbacks to reinstating with a DIFFERENT SSRI? I'm considering instead reinstating with lexapro given the little I've read so far.  Any idea how long I need to wait to take lexapro after yesterday's zoloft? My inclination would be no wait at all given the low doses.  I realize I "should ask my doctor" but let's get real -- most doctors are pretty clueless when it comes to this stuff, or many of us wouldn't be here.

 

Thanks for reading! I appreciate any input

 

[Sassenach]

Hi Lucidity

I am currently out and doing this on my phone which is not ideal.

What was the highest dose of lexapro you were on.

Reinstatement of the original medication is the most likely to be successful.

I will be online between 5 and 7 p.m. UK time  this evening.

In the meantime please do not take any further meds.

Reinstatement should be carried out as a very small dose in relation to the original dose.

Until we have the information I requested we cannot what give you a suggested dose.

Sassenach

[lucidity]

Thanks for your reply!

 

The max dose I was on was 20mg, though perhaps most of the years I was taking 10mg.  I was off entirely for several months in 2015/2016 when insomnia began to occur so I went back to 20mg.   What gets me is I had been off 7-8 months this time and am now having to reinstate.  This stuff is insidious

 

[Altostrata]

Welcome, lucidity.

 

If you'd like to reinstate another SSRI, Prozac is the better choice as, arguably, it is easier to taper than Zoloft or Lexapro. You might take 0.5mg to start. It comes in a prescription liquid so you can take a small amount.

 

It's possible this small amount will be enough. You'd stabilize on it for some months then taper by miniscule amounts later.

[lucidity]

I will likely do that, thanks!

 

[lucidity]

Okay long time since last update, I'm in quite a bit of distress here.

 

I had tried a tiny reinstatement of lexapro before Sassenach said not to do anything further, way back then.  Sorry for that -- I was in a panic as I often am.  It didn't work out, I had extreme agitation and akathisia for 2 days or so, eventually calmed with a bit of cyproheptadine.  I was too afraid to try prozac at that point because of its seriously long half life and my reaction to lexapro.

 

Since the very beginning of my ordeal, I have not been able to find stability for more than a few days or so (with a few exceptions lasting 5-6 days) Lack of sleep is my main issue, and it is a MAJOR one for me.  When I get less than a certain amount of sleep (around 4 hours), I get a boost of energy and positivity in the morning, followed by a crash anytime from noon to early evening. The agony of the crash is horrific -- writhing in pain for hours, often with akathisia and extreme suicidal ideation. 

 

As a result, I tried various supplements and eventually medications for sleep, finding that only olanzapine (2.5-5mg) could regularly give me more than 4 hours of sleep unless I took it for more than one night in a row.  I did NOT want to do this, knowing how it was likely destabilizing me further and leading to dependence on it.  As a result, I would take it only when the sleep deprivation became unbearable, often from begging by my family to do so and when on the doorstep of suicide.  If I hadn't done this, I would have either ended up in the ER or dead.

Generally, it was every 4 days (sometimes 6).  This went on for a about year and a half, until recently.

 

Another worrisome aspect of my sleep is that there is only a certain amount that my CNS seems to think I should have. If I go over this amount even though I'm still sleep deprived, I experience extreme anxiety and sometimes panic.  When this happens, it means my sleep the following night will be either extremely light or non-existant, which sets me up for the next cycle of needing an emergency sleep medicine in a few days time.

 

In the past month or so, my sleep has suddenly taken a massive turn for the worse.  Olanzapine, which previously allowed me to get back to sleep after waking too early, has stopped doing so, resulting in no good days whatsoever.  As a result, I ended up in severe sleep deprivation. I got a prescription for dayvigo (lemborexant) which seemed to help some initially.  I was able to sleep for a good number of hours for 4 days (although I was waking up every hour or two) and then it seemed to stop helping, and I had several days of 2 hours or no sleep at all. 

 

Additionally, if I happen to sleep more than 4 hours, my I'm getting the anxiety and panic of "too much sleep" that I used to get when sleeping over 6-7 hours.

 

I went back to the doctor for a prescription for seroquel, noting that at least it had fewer horror stories than olanzapine.  Unfortunately, it too has only allowed me 3 hours of sleep, even combined with dayvigo.  I do realize antipsychotics for sleep are likely a dead-end but again I'm just trying to stay alive at this point.  My family wants me to go to a treatment facility.  I've tried explaining to them that they don't know how to treat this and I'll likely end up even worse, but they're desperate as well.  One question is -- does anyone know any way I can get enough sleep or prevent that crash? Is there any hope in any facilities? I'm disabled by agony most of the time now; I'm only able to write this now because I'm in my morning high.  Might a sedating tricyclic like amitriptyline provide some relief? I'm no longer much concerned with staying off meds at this point and concerned with just staying  alive.

 

Benzos are a no-go for me --  I'm benzo injured from previous withdrawals. A single ativan has resulted in a week-long withdrawal episode.  I've also spent thousands on supplements and have tried various antihistamines, prescription and OTC.

 

Thanks for reading

[lucidity]

Is anyone paying attention here? I understand if you have no good answers.. just checking

 

[ChessieCat]

Hi lucidity,

 

I'm sorry that you post got overlooked.  The site has been extremely busy and we have been getting a lot of new members and with some staff (we are all unpaid and unrostered volunteers) taking time off.

 

Even though we do understand the desperation and necessity to get sleep (I suffered from this last year when I hurt my back so I have first hand experience) SA is unable to make any recommendations as to what drug to try.

 

You might try to find a support group and/or forum for sleep issues.

 

Sleep problems - that awful withdrawal insomnia

 

One thing that I will point out is that the effect of psychiatric drugs is cumulative.  The brain likes consistency.  It is always trying to balance things out, regain homeostasis, and whenever you make a change the brain has to adjust to that change.  Taking a psychiatric drug occasionally and/or changing to different one may end up causing your nervous system  to become sensitised or destabilised.

[lucidity]

That's okay, I understand. 

 

I've gone through that sleep thread a few times already, and have read much more on the subject

 

I'm just upset that I was having windows and now all seems lost.  I'm back to panic most of the time, no windows, and sleep about 3 hours a night, worse than it's ever been.  If I happen to get any more sleep than that (using any drug or supplement), I get severe anxiety resulting in panic lasting much of the day.  If I get < 4 hours or so, I get indescribable pain from noon to early evening.  I was sleeping better and now everything is worse 27 months in. There's just no light at the end of the tunnel. My family wants to take me to a psych ward, I but I know these people generally aren't going to understand my situation.  To make matters worse, I'm autistic and was already suicidal before all of this started due to constant isolation, no friends, no work, no interests.  Even if I somehow "recover" I am left with what I had before, though I'm sure I would no longer take for granted not being in the hell I was in before

 

[lucidity]

I know you don't make recommendations, but are there many who have reinstated with mirtazapine or a tricyclic like amitryptyline who have been able to then sleep after severe insomnia? Trazadone is a no-go for me 

 

[Dee12h]

What about reinstating a small dose of lexapro? So sorry you’re dealing with this!

 

eta: Sorry, just read you already tried that! 

[KathyLoop]

I feel for you, lucidity. Similar sleep issues here. I too considered going back to Mirtazapine, but haven't yet as I'm only 3 months off my previous antidepressant and want to try to stick it out.  I'm going to go back to ativan and zopiclone for sleep now, as I came off them too quickly... though I understand you can't take those.

 

I came across your post because I searched for Dayvigo... considering that myself, though it seems it hasn't worked very well for you. Yours was the only post that came up.

 

So I have no great suggestions... just wanted to send along an "I get it, I can empathize". Hope you're able to find your way.

[lucidity]

The best use I've found for dayvigo is only taking it after I've woken up the first or second time of the night. If I take it before bedtime, it doesn't always get me to sleep and if it does the sleep is always extremely broken, waking up 6-7 times a night. If I take it after I wake up, the sleep is still broken but I almost always get another couple of hours, which can make a huge difference in my day even though I still don't ever feel rested. Some nights I just can't get to sleep initially like last night.  I'm not sure what to do about that. Today has been awful.

 

Thanks for the kind words. What did  you think of TMS? Was it specifically for depression, anxiety, sleep?

[KathyLoop]

Thanks for the info on Dayvigo. It seems there are no great meds for sleep... or even good ones... we certainly got ourselves in a spot!

 

TMS was a bust for me. I tried it for depression and anxiety, as I was suicidal on all the meds I was taking. I had constant headaches from the very start and I improved very little over the course of 45 treatments. In my opinion, it was a waste of $3500. But I also started to taper quickly off my meds while getting TMS, maybe a month in, so that likely makes it hard to know what did what. The headaches persisted for at least 6 months after, even once I started on new meds... the quick taper was a mistake. I still have issues with headaches and I never had a problem with them before TMS. Though it could be due to the tapering as well. I'm always so desperate and in a rush for relief... makes it hard to get anywhere or know what's causing what. My sleep was medicated throughout TMS, so I didn't notice any change from it.

 

Now I hear stories about TMS causing injury... so who knows if it's actually safe. I've concluded that there will be no quick fix for my issues. I'm doing Jungian therapy twice a week for the last 8 months.... he tells me it'll take a long time to get over this, after medicating it for 30 years... but that's my latest approach.

Things sounded pretty dire in your posts.... Is anything helping you? I'm glad to see you're managing to survive at least... that's an accomplishment for us both, from the sounds of it.

[lucidity]

Yeah I'm pretty wary about TMS, but I'm also desperate as most of us are.

 

Zyprexa helps short-term for sleep.  I try to only take it as a last resort, but fear it's worsening me long term anyway due to its long half-life and known damaging nature.  Dayvigo helps just like I said before.  I also started keto (again) about 6 weeks ago, and it seems to lessen my depression a fair amount and some anxiety too. Getting through the initial adjustment phase was difficult, though.

 

For me, all of my other issues seem 100% tied to sleep problems.  If I had some indication that it would improve, I could breathe a sigh of relief.  Instead, sleep just seems to deteriorate.

 

Yeah still alive, though always wishing I weren't. I find myself getting jealous when hearing about others getting some terminal disease or dying suddenly. I'd be ecstatic to find out that my days are numbered. I just can't bring myself to hurt those that care for me, though I also know they can't enjoy seeing me like this 

 

Sorry to see you have an even longer history with this garbage.  Best of luck to you, in any case

[KathyLoop]

I hear you. Sleep issues make everything else so much more horrible.... and of course, everything else is pretty horrible already. I spent a very long time wishing for death myself and being jealous of others dying in the way you described. I've had some of that again recently, so I really get it. But I've also had some periods recently with less of that and I think it's due to the twice-weekly therapy. Any chance that might help you? I did a ton of therapy in the past and never got anywhere with it, but this Jungian stuff seems more helpful, so-called depth psychology... and maybe attempting it off antidepressants is making a difference. I know that feeling of resignation and hopelessness, the sense that nothing works, nothing helps, so why bother. But my ongoing therapy is giving me some glimpses of hope for some better future... it's just going to take a while apparently.

 

It makes sense to me what they keep recommending here about consistent dosing... picking one drug and sticking with it... so that's what I'm going to try for sleep, along with all the other sleep hygiene stuff... getting up at same time, going to bed at same time, meditation, exercise, etc. But I completely understand your desperation when nothing works and why you keep resorting to inconsistent approaches. Well done with the eating, btw... I'm glad something is at least helping you a bit.

 

I wish you all the best too. Feel free to stay in touch, if you'd find it helpful. Sometimes it's just good to share the journey with others going through the same thing.

[KathyLoop]

I wanted to add that I also had some kind of awakening experience about two years ago. I'm not sure it was kundalini as yours was... I'm honestly not sure what it was to be honest, though at the time, I figured it was the much sought after spiritual awakening I'd been chasing for 20 years and I assumed my suffering would be over. The bliss lasted for a month maybe and then I took a deep dive back into extreme suicidality. The awakening experience occurred about one month into taking Mirtazapine, so I thought it might be drug-related too. Who knows. Just wanted to let you know that you're not alone in this kind of experience and the traumatic stuff that followed it.

 

I also went through years of panic attacks that started after a psychotic episode induced by ECT. I finally seemed to get past them maybe a year ago, once I stopped medicating them with ativan and just went through them with support. I also did two mushroom trips which were horrible and I assumed did nothing for me, but again, who knows. I was so desperate and on the verge of death, I was willing to try anything. 

 

Hope I'm not over-communicating here. I'll stop talking now. 

[lucidity]

I suppose therapy could help me when during the periods I'm feeling better, it's just I deal with rapidly fluctuating awful sensations that seem so obviously physiological in nature that I know therapy will not improve.  Some days I go from suicidal all the way to "good" for a short while and then back. Another problem is I only have short unknowable windows when I am okay to do anything at all, so making it to pre-planned anything is often an issue. I'll keep it in mind, though.

 

My last doctor suggested consistent dosing, and trying it for a week I was in some ways worse. So I quit, rather than being both worse and now addicted to another drug and I'm back to "as needed" except for dayvigo which I always seem to need now.  It really seems anything that has me sleep deeply (which I really need the most) wakes me up with severe agitation (alerting?) Also the more "caught up" on sleep I get, the more deep my sleep gets (and therefore more agitated awakenings leading to less sleep). The result is I can't find any sort of stability, with medication or without 

 

It's interesting that you had an awakening too. I too thought my suffering was over at first. Then, the anxiety set in.  Mine happened after about 30 seconds of meditation, and the main reason I came to understand it to be kundalini syndrome is because mystical experiences started happening right and left (some quite incredible at the outset) -- undeniable proof over and over many times a day that there was something supernatural going on. There was some psychosis, too, but it has been obvious that there is much more to it than that. It has let up a lot since then, but still happens.

 

Write all you feel like writing, I appreciate it 

[KathyLoop]

34 minutes ago, lucidity said:

I suppose therapy could help me when during the periods I'm feeling better, it's just I deal with rapidly fluctuating awful sensations that seem so obviously physiological in nature that I know therapy will not improve.  Some days I go from suicidal all the way to "good" for a short while and then back. Another problem is I only have short unknowable windows when I am okay to do anything at all, so making it to pre-planned anything is often an issue.

Yep, same, same, same. It was very hard for me to make the decision to start therapy, find a therapist, start going, keep going, etc. I do one session a week in person and one session a week over zoom. He assured me it's fine for me to show up a complete mess, crying and suicidal and freaking out. I show up no matter what. For the first 6 months, I had to have someone take me, as I wasn't able to even drive myself places. But now, I drive again... and I show up.. that's all I have to do. Even if I sit there and cry for an hour, it would be ok... but that has never happened. At most, I sat there and cried for maybe 5 minutes... and then he gets me talking about it.

 

I've been doing very little in life for over a decade... literally laying down 23 hours a day, completely disabled. But recently, I'm up and about a bit, getting out for walks, etc. So just encouraging you to not give up. I know how hard it is when everything is so crazy and chaotic and unstable.

[KathyLoop]

1 hour ago, lucidity said:

The result is I can't find any sort of stability, with medication or without 

Yep, I'm there too. I totally get it. My sleep is chaotic, my days are chaotic, my moods are chaotic. And I don't know what to do about any of it. My therapist says live it. This is how it is, live it. Keep doing the therapy, keep increasing self-care, keep doing whatever I can, but just stay alive. 

 

As for the awakening, spiritual stuff... I've taken a step away from it all. I was deep into non-duality and trying to awaken for 20 years, but largely as a way to escape my suffering. It hasn't worked. I can't escape my suffering... if anything, I think I made it worse by trying to escape it. So I'm trying to live in it, face it, be curious about it, etc. But god, easier said than done obviously. I spent my whole life trying to avoid suffering... and here it is, still, in my face. 

 

We have much in common. So nice to meet you.

[lucidity]

I know it's several months late, but nice to meet you too Kathyloop. I truly hope your situation is better than mine, which has deteriorated.

 

It's still the same pattern for me, and sleep is still nearly the entire problem I have. Talking with other "regular" insomniacs and my sleep doctor, however, my situation is quite atypical in that any amount sleep less than 4 hours or so and I am in utter hell.  I end up screaming, groaning, writhing on the floor often for the entire day in complete terror. I know of no agony worse than this. I used to have kidney stones and they were nothing comparatively.

 

When this happens, my choice is either suicide since I am completely unable sleep in this state and will only worsen, or take something serious to help me sleep which often turns out to be zyprexa.  However, even that doesn't allow for good restful sleep anymore. It used to. Mirtazapine used to help as well. Seroquel has helped in initiating sleep a bit, but often gives me chest pain (doubled over in pain the entire the next day groaning) and severe depression. Dayvigo is the only thing I take regularly, and while it helps a lot, sometimes even 10mg doesn't work. Even when it does work, the sleep I get does not feel restful. It used to help more as well.

 

I suppose this is to be expected as I grow a tolerance to these drugs, but honestly have no choice at all. Taking them multiple days in a row also doesn't work except for dayvigo, as the night after any better than normal sleep I NEVER get decent rest even with them. It's as if my body decides I should only get a certain amount of restful sleep, or is something being depleted?

 

I don't have "windows" anymore, and can't find anything at all to give me any sort of hope, which is desperately needed. I hear "it gets better" but I have only gotten worse from an already hellish situation.  Yes I know it's probably because I keep taking drugs, but when the terror is so bad I'm going to off myself, what else can I do?

 

I'm ready to move on this life, but I'm frustrated with the fact that everyone tells me "no, you must not do that." Why? How can you say that when no one can give me any sort of hope? The people telling me this haven't experienced even the tiniest fraction of horror that I have. My family and doctors say I should go inpatient, but what special hidden sleep drugs do they have there? Will I be denied the supplements I've found to take the edge off? Do they even recognize withdrawal syndrome? I also can't find stories of insomnia like this being treated by going inpatient. 

 

Will they have keto food for me? I've tried to stop keto twice now, and the result both times was agitation and a night of zero sleep. I've sworn never to do that again until I've improved dramatically. 

 

I've been trying my best to be positive for so long, and now it's becoming impossible as my hopes have been dashed so many times now.  The accumulating trauma can't be good for me either.

 

I'm VERY pissed at the field of psychiatry for doing this to people and then denying that it happens. I know now very well that there are alternatives that do not result in this kind of torture. I also suspect I was likely deficient in vitamins when I was put on these drugs initially that could have explained much of my depression and anxiety. No one thought to check. This is inexcusable. 

 

Anyway, I know it's likely no one out there has any answers either. I just felt the need to vent. Also, maybe others can relate and know it's not just them going through this.

 

[Foxclover6]

On 4/4/2021 at 9:53 AM, lucidity said:

Okay long time since last update, I'm in quite a bit of distress here.

 

I had tried a tiny reinstatement of lexapro before Sassenach said not to do anything further, way back then.  Sorry for that -- I was in a panic as I often am.  It didn't work out, I had extreme agitation and akathisia for 2 days or so, eventually calmed with a bit of cyproheptadine.  I was too afraid to try prozac at that point because of its seriously long half life and my reaction to lexapro.

 

Since the very beginning of my ordeal, I have not been able to find stability for more than a few days or so (with a few exceptions lasting 5-6 days) Lack of sleep is my main issue, and it is a MAJOR one for me.  When I get less than a certain amount of sleep (around 4 hours), I get a boost of energy and positivity in the morning, followed by a crash anytime from noon to early evening. The agony of the crash is horrific -- writhing in pain for hours, often with akathisia and extreme suicidal ideation. 

 

As a result, I tried various supplements and eventually medications for sleep, finding that only olanzapine (2.5-5mg) could regularly give me more than 4 hours of sleep unless I took it for more than one night in a row.  I did NOT want to do this, knowing how it was likely destabilizing me further and leading to dependence on it.  As a result, I would take it only when the sleep deprivation became unbearable, often from begging by my family to do so and when on the doorstep of suicide.  If I hadn't done this, I would have either ended up in the ER or dead.

Generally, it was every 4 days (sometimes 6).  This went on for a about year and a half, until recently.

 

Another worrisome aspect of my sleep is that there is only a certain amount that my CNS seems to think I should have. If I go over this amount even though I'm still sleep deprived, I experience extreme anxiety and sometimes panic.  When this happens, it means my sleep the following night will be either extremely light or non-existant, which sets me up for the next cycle of needing an emergency sleep medicine in a few days time.

 

In the past month or so, my sleep has suddenly taken a massive turn for the worse.  Olanzapine, which previously allowed me to get back to sleep after waking too early, has stopped doing so, resulting in no good days whatsoever.  As a result, I ended up in severe sleep deprivation. I got a prescription for dayvigo (lemborexant) which seemed to help some initially.  I was able to sleep for a good number of hours for 4 days (although I was waking up every hour or two) and then it seemed to stop helping, and I had several days of 2 hours or no sleep at all. 

 

Additionally, if I happen to sleep more than 4 hours, my I'm getting the anxiety and panic of "too much sleep" that I used to get when sleeping over 6-7 hours.

 

I went back to the doctor for a prescription for seroquel, noting that at least it had fewer horror stories than olanzapine.  Unfortunately, it too has only allowed me 3 hours of sleep, even combined with dayvigo.  I do realize antipsychotics for sleep are likely a dead-end but again I'm just trying to stay alive at this point.  My family wants me to go to a treatment facility.  I've tried explaining to them that they don't know how to treat this and I'll likely end up even worse, but they're desperate as well.  One question is -- does anyone know any way I can get enough sleep or prevent that crash? Is there any hope in any facilities? I'm disabled by agony most of the time now; I'm only able to write this now because I'm in my morning high.  Might a sedating tricyclic like amitriptyline provide some relief? I'm no longer much concerned with staying off meds at this point and concerned with just staying  alive.

 

Benzos are a no-go for me --  I'm benzo injured from previous withdrawals. A single ativan has resulted in a week-long withdrawal episode.  I've also spent thousands on supplements and have tried various antihistamines, prescription and OTC.

 

Thanks for reading

When you reinstated did you ever have burning of the skin sensation? Just wondering 

[Foxclover6]

1 hour ago, lucidity said:

I know it's several months late, but nice to meet you too Kathyloop. I truly hope your situation is better than mine, which has deteriorated.

 

It's still the same pattern for me, and sleep is still nearly the entire problem I have. Talking with other "regular" insomniacs and my sleep doctor, however, my situation is quite atypical in that any amount sleep less than 4 hours or so and I am in utter hell.  I end up screaming, groaning, writhing on the floor often for the entire day in complete terror. I know of no agony worse than this. I used to have kidney stones and they were nothing comparatively.

 

When this happens, my choice is either suicide since I am completely unable sleep in this state and will only worsen, or take something serious to help me sleep which often turns out to be zyprexa.  However, even that doesn't allow for good restful sleep anymore. It used to. Mirtazapine used to help as well. Seroquel has helped in initiating sleep a bit, but often gives me chest pain (doubled over in pain the entire the next day groaning) and severe depression. Dayvigo is the only thing I take regularly, and while it helps a lot, sometimes even 10mg doesn't work. Even when it does work, the sleep I get does not feel restful. It used to help more as well.

 

I suppose this is to be expected as I grow a tolerance to these drugs, but honestly have no choice at all. Taking them multiple days in a row also doesn't work except for dayvigo, as the night after any better than normal sleep I NEVER get decent rest even with them. It's as if my body decides I should only get a certain amount of restful sleep, or is something being depleted?

 

I don't have "windows" anymore, and can't find anything at all to give me any sort of hope, which is desperately needed. I hear "it gets better" but I have only gotten worse from an already hellish situation.  Yes I know it's probably because I keep taking drugs, but when the terror is so bad I'm going to off myself, what else can I do?

 

I'm ready to move on this life, but I'm frustrated with the fact that everyone tells me "no, you must not do that." Why? How can you say that when no one can give me any sort of hope? The people telling me this haven't experienced even the tiniest fraction of horror that I have. My family and doctors say I should go inpatient, but what special hidden sleep drugs do they have there? Will I be denied the supplements I've found to take the edge off? Do they even recognize withdrawal syndrome? I also can't find stories of insomnia like this being treated by going inpatient. 

 

Will they have keto food for me? I've tried to stop keto twice now, and the result both times was agitation and a night of zero sleep. I've sworn never to do that again until I've improved dramatically. 

 

I've been trying my best to be positive for so long, and now it's becoming impossible as my hopes have been dashed so many times now.  The accumulating trauma can't be good for me either.

 

I'm VERY pissed at the field of psychiatry for doing this to people and then denying that it happens. I know now very well that there are alternatives that do not result in this kind of torture. I also suspect I was likely deficient in vitamins when I was put on these drugs initially that could have explained much of my depression and anxiety. No one thought to check. This is inexcusable. 

 

Anyway, I know it's likely no one out there has any answers either. I just felt the need to vent. Also, maybe others can relate and know it's not just them going through this.

 

You can always start good nutrition now, I've been trying to treat my gut,  since that's the second brain. I also take a supplement from my functional doctor called calm plus by Kathy Ireland that helps with anxiety.  Its most b vitamins, I know supps arent suggested midst withdrawl but I am almost 5 months out so I just take it, im also struggling largely still, youre not alone 

[KathyLoop]

Sorry it's so rough for you, Lucidity. I do think it's probably the drugs messing everything up. I know, it's so hard to get off them. Especially when you're desperate.

 

I tried to come off all my sleep meds quickly, back in May-June. Went horribly, of course. And then I went to daily Ativan, microdosing 3x a day and then started to taper. I'm down to .57mg now... every tiny reduction is hard, but at least I'm headed in the right direction.

 

But everything blew up in my life about a month ago... relationship issues, he called the police on me, told me I couldn't come back to where I'd been living with him for almost 2 years, and then I totalled my car that night. Ugh. So now I'm staying with my parents, trying to find some stability.

 

It sounds like you're jumping all over the place with your sleep meds. I would suggest you pick one and stick with it. When I tried alternating, I just ended up kindled and in distress every damn day. I've had some regret about taking daily Ativan, especially since the taper is hell, but I was desperate for relief at the time and this is where I'm at now. One drug, one taper, slowly moving in the right direction. My sleep is starting to come back... I'm getting 6-7 hours broken up... but every time I reduce a little ativan or have any amount of stress, it's all messed up for a while again. But I just keep sticking to my plan... take whatever Ativan is indicated according to my taper schedule, good sleep hygiene, even when I don't get much, and carry on. I just know I have to get through this.

 

I'm pissed at psychiatry too. Super-pissed. I'm so sorry they have gotten you into the state you're presently in. But please don't give up. I agree with you that a hospital probably isn't the answer, unless it's truly life or death.... better to stay alive and address it all down the road, if that's all you can manage to do. Have you considered posting a new thread on here? Asking for help? Asking for a plan to follow? But then you have to stick with it. With what they suggest. Just have to do it and get through it somehow.

 

Do you have any support? Someone helping you in the real world? It's so hard to deal with this kind of stuff on one's own, especially with the cognitive impairment and emotional distress these stupid drugs cause.

 

 

[lucidity]

4 hours ago, Foxclover6 said:

When you reinstated did you ever have burning of the skin sensation? Just wondering 

Can't say that I have 

[lucidity]

4 hours ago, Foxclover6 said:

You can always start good nutrition now, I've been trying to treat my gut,  since that's the second brain. I also take a supplement from my functional doctor called calm plus by Kathy Ireland that helps with anxiety.  Its most b vitamins, I know supps arent suggested midst withdrawl but I am almost 5 months out so I just take it, im also struggling largely still, youre not alone 

I've been paying very close attention to nutrition for the past two years.  I can handle some vitamins, but b5, b6, and b12 are too stimulating for me in any meaningful amount. I also started working on gut issues several months ago, and I've had some improvements there with inulin, psyllium husk, and potato starch (for butyrate).  They all give me constipation now but originally they helped calm me a fair amount  

[lucidity]

1 hour ago, KathyLoop said:

Sorry it's so rough for you, Lucidity. I do think it's probably the drugs messing everything up. I know, it's so hard to get off them. Especially when you're desperate.

 

I tried to come off all my sleep meds quickly, back in May-June. Went horribly, of course. And then I went to daily Ativan, microdosing 3x a day and then started to taper. I'm down to .57mg now... every tiny reduction is hard, but at least I'm headed in the right direction.

 

But everything blew up in my life about a month ago... relationship issues, he called the police on me, told me I couldn't come back to where I'd been living with him for almost 2 years, and then I totalled my car that night. Ugh. So now I'm staying with my parents, trying to find some stability.

 

It sounds like you're jumping all over the place with your sleep meds. I would suggest you pick one and stick with it. When I tried alternating, I just ended up kindled and in distress every damn day. I've had some regret about taking daily Ativan, especially since the taper is hell, but I was desperate for relief at the time and this is where I'm at now. One drug, one taper, slowly moving in the right direction. My sleep is starting to come back... I'm getting 6-7 hours broken up... but every time I reduce a little ativan or have any amount of stress, it's all messed up for a while again. But I just keep sticking to my plan... take whatever Ativan is indicated according to my taper schedule, good sleep hygiene, even when I don't get much, and carry on. I just know I have to get through this.

 

I'm pissed at psychiatry too. Super-pissed. I'm so sorry they have gotten you into the state you're presently in. But please don't give up. I agree with you that a hospital probably isn't the answer, unless it's truly life or death.... better to stay alive and address it all down the road, if that's all you can manage to do. Have you considered posting a new thread on here? Asking for help? Asking for a plan to follow? But then you have to stick with it. With what they suggest. Just have to do it and get through it somehow.

 

Do you have any support? Someone helping you in the real world? It's so hard to deal with this kind of stuff on one's own, especially with the cognitive impairment and emotional distress these stupid drugs cause.

 

 

Sorry to hear all that. I know horrors of benzo withdrawal very well. I really wish I didn't -- that would mean several options would be available to me for sleep that currently aren't. I'm glad you're getting some sleep! That has to feel wonderful.

 

I had to sell my house and move back in with my parents as well.

 

As far as sleep med stability goes, dayvigo is the only one I take constantly, but it's not enough by itself.  I've tried stabilizing on promethazine, quetiapine, mirtazapine, and olanzapine by themselves and combined with dayvigo, only to end up just as distressed as before. No matter the substance, it's the same pattern.  When that happens, it doesn't make much sense to me to continue taking something that no longer works because I'll just add more dependency to the mix.  I haven't been able to find stability for more than a few days since this whole ordeal began almost 3 years ago.

 

A new thread might get some attention, but I feel I've tried about everything possible and then some.  I've read plenty of stories and tried suggestions given. Still, that may be a good idea if I can find someone who has recovered from a similar situation if it's not against the rules. I do feel though my situation is somewhat unique due to dealing with kundalini syndrome (which is so rough some also suicide from it on its own as well) on top of SSRI withdrawal. I know you said you had an awakening as well; I wonder how many of us there are?

 

I do have support from my parents and wife and appreciate that greatly, but my situation is very dire. I feel that in a just and caring society, one should be allowed the option of euthanasia when in a state of untreatable near-constant extreme distress. We do this for our pets because it's the right thing to do

 

[KathyLoop]

I've said the same thing about euthanasia many, many times. 

 

Do I really want to die? Not really... but I would like this hell to end... can it? I don't know. I'm in and out of it these days. 

 

I'm glad you have your parents and your wife. I have people who care about me, but I feel so distant and detached most of the time, from everyone, from myself... it's hard to feel their caring or benefit from it. I'm grateful for my mom... she is the only one keeping me going right now. She's 80 and still trying to look after me.

 

It seems to me that since none of the sleep meds are working for you, it's time to get off them all. That's what I concluded about a year ago.... none of the drugs I was taking were working, I was a complete suicidal mess, so I decided it was time to try life without them... see if there's any truth to this popular idea that we can heal once the meds are out of our systems. I'm still mostly in hell trying to get there, but I can't see any other option, so I continue, even though my life is completely falling apart, worse than I've ever been.

 

It is possible that your sleep will come back once you stop messing with it, with drugs, with supplements, all of it. But I know it probably seems like an impossible task to accomplish when you can't hardly sleep at all. Even though I'm sleeping some now, it's not restful... like you said somewhere above, medicated sleep is never restful. But I am still grateful that I get some, if for no other reason than to just have a break from this world. I'm very sorry you aren't getting more of a break. I wish there were someone who could truly guide you through this and help you... someone who knew what would work for you. We're so damaged and there's no clear road for us... we're left flailing around, making it up as we go. It's no wonder we're struggling so much.

[lucidity]

9 hours ago, KathyLoop said:

I've said the same thing about euthanasia many, many times. 

 

Do I really want to die? Not really... but I would like this hell to end... can it? I don't know. I'm in and out of it these days. 

 

I'm glad you have your parents and your wife. I have people who care about me, but I feel so distant and detached most of the time, from everyone, from myself... it's hard to feel their caring or benefit from it. I'm grateful for my mom... she is the only one keeping me going right now. She's 80 and still trying to look after me.

 

It seems to me that since none of the sleep meds are working for you, it's time to get off them all. That's what I concluded about a year ago.... none of the drugs I was taking were working, I was a complete suicidal mess, so I decided it was time to try life without them... see if there's any truth to this popular idea that we can heal once the meds are out of our systems. I'm still mostly in hell trying to get there, but I can't see any other option, so I continue, even though my life is completely falling apart, worse than I've ever been.

 

It is possible that your sleep will come back once you stop messing with it, with drugs, with supplements, all of it. But I know it probably seems like an impossible task to accomplish when you can't hardly sleep at all. Even though I'm sleeping some now, it's not restful... like you said somewhere above, medicated sleep is never restful. But I am still grateful that I get some, if for no other reason than to just have a break from this world. I'm very sorry you aren't getting more of a break. I wish there were someone who could truly guide you through this and help you... someone who knew what would work for you. We're so damaged and there's no clear road for us... we're left flailing around, making it up as we go. It's no wonder we're struggling so much.

Yeah, the truth is the sleep meds aren't doing enough, by far, but they are doing something.  I've tried lowering or getting off them so many times, but I end up in complete suicidal terror very quickly. Only a couple of months ago, I had a few nights where I had some sleep only with melatonin.  For whatever reason, my ability to do that ended abruptly.

 

Unfortunately, my tolerance is getting worse and worse and I don't see any way out.  When I first started this for around 7 months, I didn't take anything at all for sleep.  I was actually doing better as far as sleep goes (though much worse with depression and anxiety), but then I screwed everything up by trying holotropic breathing (hyperventilating) because I was desperate to cure my anxiety and depression.  After that that I couldn't sleep at all and was in panic mode 24/7 and my family pressured me to start a medication for sleep.  It worked at first.  

 

While I appreciate the support from my family, they don't believe me that this is withdrawal or damage from drugs.  It doesn't matter what I show them or tell them, it's all in my head and I just need medication. They think this forum is full of people who are lost in groupthink. They don't believe me when I say my attempts at reinstatement of SSRIs were even more horrific than my current state.  They keep saying "you're suicidal, it can't get any worse." WRONG

 

 

I really hope you make it. This has to be among toughest trials a human can endure. Barring a miracle, it looks like my fate is sealed. I'm not too sad about that, though, for my own sake -- I know for sure that only the body dies. What I have troubling dealing with is leaving my wife alone 

[KathyLoop]

I think the only way out would be to taper the sleep meds very slowly... maybe the 10% a month they recommend on here. (When I tried to reduce quickly, I ended up violent and suicidal... hence the ativan.) But from the sounds of it, you're in no shape to even attempt that. It sounds like you're losing all hope. I'm very sorry you're in this situation. It's even worse when no one understands. I have a boyfriend (and I use that term loosely) who is angry that he's not getting physical intimacy... as if that should be a priority for me right now. He has no clue what I'm going through. He says I'm selfish and self-centered.

 

I would mostly feel bad for my parents if I left. And I'm also afraid of ending up in some worse state, after death... as well as not actually dying and just ending up horribly maimed or something. There's a 12th floor balcony in my building... it's so awful that this is what we've come to... having to do this to ourselves.