Faure: mirtazapine withdrawal

[brassmonkey]

Gridley and wantrelief covered it pretty well. Looks like you're on the right track.

[Faure]

Thank you @Gridley & @wantrelief I appreciate your help. I will keep listening to my body ☺️ Wishing you both all the best with your tapers as well. 

[Faure]

It only took a few days to feel steadier so last night I made the 4th cut.  Strange (to me)  new symptom emerged last night - blocked ears. I’ve checked this site and see that’s a thing 🙁  Hopefully the three weeks on this latest dose will allow that to resolve. Could it turn into tinnitus?

[Gigi68]

Hi Faure, I am also tapering Mirtazapine, currently at 4.62mg, and have the blocked ears off and on, (nose too).  For me it doesn’t last long. Mirtazapine is a powerful antihistamine and as we reduce there are often histamine rebound problems. I think blocked ears is possibly caused by that. Hope it clears up for you soon!

[Faure]

Thanks @Gigi68. What speed taper are you doing? I’m doing the BMslide which will take a while but at least in a year I’ll be at 5mg so hoping to have much more energy by then. It’s actually already coming back ☺️ although last time I tried to come off I was more tired at 7mg but less once I was past that. 

[Gigi68]

I have tried different percentages of tapering. My first drop from 7.5mg was 17% and it was very difficult for two weeks. I held that for 6 weeks. Since then I have done 5% for awhile and held each for 2-4 weeks depending on how I felt and what was going on in my life. Now I am trying the brass monkey method. I really like the 2.5% drop but don’t usually feel ready for another drop in a week so I’ve been holding a little longer. My last hold was 12 days. I think this one will be 10. My WD symptoms doing it this way have been diarrhea only for a couple of days. I’m not happy about how long it will take at this rate but I am very happy that I have been able to return to my life and do what I want. After this next drop, I may try 3% and hold 10 days so I can be closer to 10% per month. Take care and listen to your body.

 

[Faure]

On Thursday I’ll enter the two week hold in my 2nd cycle of the brass monkey slide.
 

Cycle 1

 

Slightly more challenging than cycle 2. There was pretty disrupted sleep on a couple of nights in the first two / 3 weeks, loss of a physical feeling of stability over a couple of days (quickly resolved) and generally taking up to 2 hours to get to sleep on about half the nights during the first 4 weeks. Life continued well with energy levels increasing with each drop.
 

Cycle 2

 

The 2nd cycle has been very smooth, time taken to get to sleep was very close to ‘normal’ for weeks 1-3 with one night of being awake till 1am during the fourth week (I usually go to bed by 10pm).  No losses of stability, very slight dip in mood occasionally which resolves within 24 hours or so.  The most common withdrawal effect is fleeting pains in my limbs a few times a day, although in the last week I haven’t had that. Again, life continues well. 

 

The taper is going very well and I don’t want to do anything to upset it but am wondering if I could reduce the 2 week hold to just 1 week….although that thought makes me feel slightly anxious as I don’t want to rock the boat.@brassmonkey or @Gridley what are your thoughts please? Thanks ☺️
 

ps I’m away atm so if I don’t manage to update my signature on my tablet the current dose is 12.3mg.  

[brassmonkey]

I'm so glad that cycle 2 is going so well, that is what we are looking for.

 

Holding for the full two weeks is quite important. There can be a false sense of security when the reductions are going well making people think that they can speed things up. Even though a person is feeling good, there is healing going on in the background that they can't feel which needs to be resolved before the next taper. If that isn't allowed to happen the unresolved healing builds up until in breaks in the form of a crash. It then can take months to restabililze before starting to taper again. In the long run it always ends up being faster to do it the slow way.

[Faure]

12 hours ago, brassmonkey said:

I'm so glad that cycle 2 is going so well, that is what we are looking for.

Thanks @brassmonkey! Me too ☺️I will follow the programme then. Thank you so much for everything you do here, Faure. 

[Faure]

An update. I went back to some of my face to face work two weeks ago. 1:1 teaching in a primary school. Large well ventilated room but I was very anxious about catching covid and whether I could do a full school day after 18 months working online, plus the fatigue caused by these pills. ( I did it well!) Because I was not feeling too steady I did a 3 week hold which ends today. I am mildly anxious. Last night I only got a couple of hours sleep (first time since the start of the taper back in June this year). And over the last couple of (hold) weeks it has taken up to 2 hours to get to sleep which didn’t happen in the last hold. I think I am just having trouble adjusting to the big change. 
 

Last night I was also reading about the perimenopause as I think I am starting to experience symptoms. Mainly changes in menstruation.  There is some fleeting anxiety which I’m not sure whether it’s down to hormone fluctuations or just the settling in period with going back to f2f teaching. I think I need to stop reading / worrying about that. I have some information if I need it. That’s all I need to do about that. 
 

My mum has pointed out the autumn is a bad time of year for me and I often have an anxious episode at this time of year. Although really I have had them at all times of the year. They are usually brought on by not looking after myself - I know how to do that now so that reason isn’t here anymore.  Anxious episodes mean not eating / sleeping / working so are pretty serious. The older I get the longer they last (4 months last time).   I just have a feeling I am going to get ill which has been here a couple of weeks. I don’t know if it’s a true feeling or just a time of year habit or what. I’m being very careful, am only working about 14 hours and it’s easy and I’m getting a lot of rest. I’m not exercising regularly and think maybe I should get into a better routine for that. Because of the fatigue I only go if I really feel like it and with the return to school I’ve focused on that, where I have to walk about a bit. 
 

I keep waiting to feel excited or at least ready for the next dose drop which should be today. After every other dose drop I have almost at once had more energy which is an incentive to do it. I don’t want to get stuck at this dose (12.3mg) this early on. I don’t know whether to go for it or not. It feels pretty risky. But it’s only a 0.3 mg drop. @brassmonkey or @Gridley advice / thoughts would be appreciated ☺️

[brassmonkey]

If things are feeling unsteady holding is always a good option. If your body says it isn't ready for the next reduction, then wait a week or so and see how you feel then.

 

It sounds like you have a lot of situational stress going on ATM which could be causing most of the symptoms you mention. Calming exercises, selfcare, and the like should help as the situations sort themselves out. The COVID thing in the schools is a very scary situation. Anyone in their right mind would be worried having to go through that.

 

Do be careful about adding exercise into the mix. People in ADWD tend to react poorly to heavy exercise. Keep it light and fun, evening walks in nature would be a good way to get some.

[92sharks]

 

I wanted to add to Brassmonkey's comment

25 minutes ago, brassmonkey said:

It sounds like you have a lot of situational stress going on ATM which could be causing most of the symptoms you mention. Calming exercises, selfcare, and the like should help as the situations sort themselves out. The COVID thing in the schools is a very scary situation. Anyone in their right mind would be worried having to go through that.

I think it is an important reminder that even if the stress you are going through is the source of the symptoms, and not exactly ADWD, it is still not a good time to continue to taper. Your CNS is struggling. Don't compound the struggle with continued tapering. Maybe this is obvious. But I am one that thought "the taper" isn't causing these problems, several life situations are, so I should go on with the slow taper. So I continued to taper, ignoring emotional w/d symptoms, then was in a wave for months. The same brain/CNS is struggling no matter the cause of symptoms. Again, maybe what I am saying is obvious. But FOR ME, I needed to understand that it doesn't matter what is causing the symptoms, if there are symptoms, I need to hold until I feel better. I have to remind myself that the goal FOR ME is to feel better and be able to function than to hurry and get off of my medication. I second Brassmonkey's suggestion: "If things are feeling unsteady holding is always a good option."  I think it is mind-boggling to be returning to activities we haven't done in months and months along with the continual questioning of if what we are doing is safe and why are we doing this/should we be doing this? It is a constant questioning of ourselves. I know it muddles my thinking and my mind. You should be very proud of what you are doing. Let your CNS settle into some peace surrounding your new endeavors. Get some rest. Don't underestimate the results of not enough sleep. I can tell you are worrying about yourself and your capabilities. This is a symptom of mine. When I feel better, I don't have the ever questioning if I can do this/is there something wrong with me? I have more confidence. Best wishes to you @Faure and continued improvement.

[Faure]

@brassmonkey& @92sharks thank you🙏 Your advice and support means so much - there is no one else to ask thank you.

 

re the exercise - the most I usually do is a little walk round the block.  I used to love Body Pump - an hour of vigorous exercise with weights - I wouldn’t get through the warm up these days. My goal is to get back to that eventually! 

 

I made up another 7 pills at the same dose last night. Went to bed very early and had a great sleep. Let’s hope I start settling down soon and can continue the taper. Wishing you all the best with your Effexor taper @92sharks- I’ve read that’s really difficult to get off.

[92sharks]

@FaureThank you! I think all of these meds are horrible to get off of. But, I believe we'll get there! 

[Faure]

I’m pleased to report that I’ve had a much better week this week. I’m really settling back into being at school. And I’m feeling ready to start tapering again Monday. I felt quite early on this week it would be Monday! Amazing how the body just knows when the right time is. I think many of us are in this position - at least I know I am -  (drugged because of distress) because we’ve not been in touch with ourselves and able to respond appropriately so it’s reassuring to be able to hear, listen and respond to my intuition☺️

[Rosetta]

Faure,

 

Thanks for your kind post on my thread.  I’m glad to see you are learning to listen to your body.  
 

Did you choose your name because of the composer?

[Faure]

Aww, you’re welcome @Rosetta! Yes I did chose the name because of the composer.  I teach music - in fact I’d just popped on to say that I have been hoping to start a new small music class for little children and have many people waiting for me to start it. But I’ve come to the realisation that I will find it stressful as it’s very new (I’ve not done anything like it before) and could well derail my taper. So I think I’ll have to put it on hold. I do see advice to avoid stress and just going back to f2f teaching 4 weeks ago meant an additional two week hold while I adjusted.  To avoid anymore delays I think I just need to keep everything exactly as it is which is disappointing, but on the other hand it would be more disappointing to be stressed and potentially become destabilised…..

 

Does anyone think it might be possible at a later stage of the taper or do I have to be super careful for the entire 5 or 6 years?!

[Rosetta]

Hi.  How lovely.  Teaching is very rewarding.

 

You will probably be able to do something special during your taper.  It’s different for everyone, and it changes constantly.  People hold their tapers when there are extenuating circumstances.  Examples: around the time change in the Fall and Spring, during the holidays, before vacations, before moving, in the event of a death or illness in the family, etc.  I struggle from the time the days start to lengthen (late February?) until early June every year.  Somehow, my body reacts poorly to the additional sunlight, longer days, earlier mornings.

 

You could hold your taper at any time that was right for you — maybe through the first few months of teaching the new class until you felt you had found a groove?

[Faure]

Thanks @Rosetta, I don’t really want to do anything that is going to cause me to have to do any longer holds as it’s already going to take 5-6 years to get off this drug. I am considering starting with a smaller class similar to something I’ve done before. At least each dose drop brings a little more energy which is very encouraging. I am having to learn to manage that and not do too much now I finally can! 

[92sharks]

@FaureI just read your post on another's page where you said you have a very nasty cold. I'm so sorry. I, too, had a nasty cold late August/early September. In the past, once I begin to feel better, I have an energy surge because it feels so good to feel good again. This time the tiredness and emotional struggle lasted for many days. I struggled to understand why. I think maybe some was having the added worry of if it could be Covid, going for testing twice, etc, etc. It lasted long enough that I started researching. I found these articles very interesting and it helped me realize that it might not be "just me"; that there is possibly a physiological reason for the psychological/emotional effects that I was feeling. Since I've been in a months long wave I appreciated finding information that could explain why I was feeling worse and was taking so long to recover psychologically from the cold. I know it is always something in life that can create a need to slow a taper, or something that can send us into a wave. I'm so sorry you've been ill. Wishing you a speedy recovery. My post is just my experience and it might be different the next time or for someone else. Just wanted to warn you not to discount the possible effects of your cold if you're actively tapering at this time. If you scroll down the first article it describes each symptom individually. Cytokines seem to be a culprit. ❤️

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7185637/

 

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23468190/ 

[Faure]

Thanks @92sharks I had such a good sleep last night and am feeling much better today. A PCR test is coming today but I don’t think it’s covid and it’s probably too late to pick it up but we’ll see. I feel like I should wear a mask 100% of the time at work (school) now as this could so easily have been covid. But I feel such an idiot as no other staff wear one. I teach 1:1 in my own room and am not employed by them so I could wear one….I’ll bear in mind your caution about the effects of a cold - thank you ☺️

[Faure]

I’m near the end of cycle 3 in the first week of a two week hold.  I’m pleased to say it has been the smoothest cycle yet. Mild anxiety for an hour some evenings in the first two weeks.  Nothing else much except for fleeting pains in my body (usual) but yesterday just in the left side of my body and more frequent & intense than usual. I’m already looking forward to the end of this cycle and starting the 4th, all being well. I’m very grateful for this website and the reminders that the slow way is the safest and actually the fastest. Whenever I think about speeding things up I read something here that reminds me to stick to the plan!

[ChessieCat]

  

8 hours ago, Faure said:

I’m at the other end having started in June this year and expecting it to take 5-6 years to get off 15mg mirtazepine.

 

8 hours ago, Faure said:

I’m very grateful for this website and the reminders that the slow way is the safest and actually the fastest.

 

I am glad that you are aware that your taper could take a long time.  It may help you to remain patient during that time.  However, please expect that there will be times when you start being tempted to go faster.  I think it is understandable.  We can get the stage where we just want it over and done with.  If/when that happens please post about it here in your Introduction topic.  It was very helpful for me when I got impatient.  It was good to get support from other members; people experiencing tapering and withdrawal are the only ones who truly understand this journey.  However, I also found that typing out my musings would get it out of my head and quite often by the end of my post I would realise how silly it was to go faster.

 

Good luck, and remember, taper according to your body/symptoms, not the calendar.  And hold for longer if there are any times when there is additional stress (good and bad; members taking holidays have experienced waves) in your life, or you are sick.

 

And only one change at a time.  And another thing to consider.  Even if you are going okay with your taper, sometimes it is nice to take a break for a while and give yourself a rest.  I did 2 long holds during my taper, one of 3 months and another of 7 weeks.  Things were going well but even though I was feeling okay I thought it would be good to hold and give my brain a chance to make any adjustments that it might need to do that I wasn't able to notice.

 

And do not put everything down to withdrawal.  If you hit a rough patch, do some detective work and think about what else might have happened.  And if you get a symptom that could possibly be a medical issue not related to withdrawal, it is better to get it checked out, not only to get quick treatment, but also to allay any fears, which adds stress.

 

Please continue to update your Intro topic and remember to come back to write your success story once you are recovered and been off for at least 1 year.  I know that is a long way off, but other members find it very encouraging to be able to read about people who have managed to get off their drug.  Thank you.

[Faure]

Thanks ChessieCat for your advice. I hold on to the fact that the first year is where the biggest ‘progress’ is made and I feel better after every little dose drop. So by next June I’ll only be on 5mg and am really hopeful I’ll have most of myself back. 

[Rosetta]

Faure,

 

It’s nice to see you doing so well.  You are very kind, and your help to others here is noticed and appreciated.  Thank you.  Have a nice weekend!

[Faure]

Hi @Rosetta, thank you. Sorry for not replying sooner I only look on my thread when I want to write on it! I think I turned off notifications.

 

I decided to go swimming yesterday. As a teen I swam for hours every week for a club. Now my back gets very stiff and painful if I don’t keep it moving. I’ve been keeping it moving with yoga the last year, but I felt fed up with that and took myself to the pool. Just 15 minutes and 26 lengths. I felt great, really enjoyed it and didn’t push myself at all, just gentle front crawl.  Anyway by the evening I was exhausted and went to bed at 7.30.  Today I feel buzzy and not quite right. I’ll rest all day, which is possible except for 1.5 hours of work later this afternoon. It’s very disappointing 🙁 I don’t know if I should try again in a couple of weeks or not.  
 

At least I am managing to do more, even walking to my very local job instead of driving at times.  
 

Weeks 3,4,5 of tapering are always trickier than 6,1,2 and it’s week 3 so maybe I’ll try again at week 6.  
 

Just writing to reassure myself everything is ok and I will soon recover from yesterday’s small exertion. 

[Rosetta]

That sounds lovely.  I always feel better after a swim.

[almuPA]

Hello @Faure,

 

just checking how you are doing after your last post😄

 

[Faure]

Hi @almuPA thanks for checking in. I kind of regretted going swimming as it wiped me out for the rest of last week. Fortunately it didn't destabilise me which I was worried about. Just a couple of days away from my two week hold which I've realised is very necessary. It's tiring doing 4 weeks of drops and is nice to have a rest and start feeling much better before going again. I'll pop by your thread, see how you are🙂

[almuPA]

19 hours ago, Faure said:

kind of regretted going swimming as it wiped me out for the rest of last week.

Im sorry to read that. It would be great to do the things we used to without consequences, isnt It? We just need to be patience, I guess. 

 

20 hours ago, Faure said:

. It's tiring doing 4 weeks of drops and is nice to have a rest and start feeling much better before going again

You are doing things in the right way. Dont rush or be like me and CT! 

 

[Mascasa]

@Faure You went backup to 15 mg in December? Was that because of the prior date about jumping around? Also from August to October you held for awhile?

[Faure]

@Mascasain Nov 2019 I became unstable after skipping days to try to get off mirtazepine. I got back on the full dose by December 2019 in the hope I would stabilise. In the end it took to November 2020 for me to fully stabilise and even then I had very little energy. Then in June 2021 I started the brass monkey slide which I have been doing ever since. I have done a couple of extra holds during that time because of "life" but I am more or less steadily following it. I just don't update my signature all the time so if that's where you're getting the impression I held then that's why.

[Nomansland]

Hello dear Faure,

 

hope you are well. I also battle mirtazapine and essentially using the same dosing method you use.

(I weigh the powder directly into small little container, which i rinse several times when i take my dose.)

 

Would like to ask you some question if that is ok.

 

Do you use the two spoons method to grind you tablets or do you use a mortar or pill grinder?

I use mortar and pestle and it gets very very fine, it sticks to almost everything after i grind the tablets.

Sometimes its a bit hard to handle, so maybe a bit more coarse would be better? I really try to get all the powder out

after grinding.

 

Do you grind more than one tablet at a time or more and mix it thoroughly after you grind it? I always grind about 10 tablets for 14 days.

 

Maybe you have some more tips for me.

 

Greetings from germany

 

Nomansland

[Faure]

Hi @Nomansland as I will be grinding pills for several years I treated myself to a nice pill grinder from Amazon. It works really well and I do 7 days pills at a time, saving any excess to be used first the following week. No problems with the fine powder. In fact you can set it to grind coarse or medium or fine. I use fine.  I use a folded piece of paper to tip the weighed amount into pill capsules. Fortunately I'm able to work (not as much as I'd like, but as my energy improves I'm very gradually increasing work) so these expenses aren't a problem. I know that's not the case for everyone.

 

Here's the link to the grinder:

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Pill-Mill-Crusher-Multiple-Pulverizer/dp/B075HZYT9G/ref=mp_s_a_1_2_sspa

 

Good luck with your taper.

[Faure]

In the interests of keeping my thread updated in case it's useful one day I thought I'd just say that since starting the Brassmonkey taper cycle from 10mg to 9mg I have stopped having the energy increases I was getting up to now. This is very disappointing and I really hope I'm not going to feel worn out for the next 9 mg. I'm sure it won't last that long!!  I'm currently on week 2 @ 9.5mg. Sadly I can't push through the tiredness as this leads to exhaustion and depressed thoughts.

 

Anyway, the important thing is I'm well, stable and able to cope with more of the things life throws at me. I've even taken an interest in doing some art activities in this twixtmas week which is fun. I'm also still planning an extra couple of hours work a week from January too 😊

 

I'm also walking 0.5 of a mile round the block every day till the end of January and then hoping to go round twice for all of February, building up to some enjoyable longer walks in nature nearby.  I've lost so much fitness and I'd really like to get some of it back.

 

With best wishes for the season, although I know many people sadly aren't able to enjoy it. Hoping those suffering get some relief very soon 😊

 

 

On 6/8/2021 at 3:03 PM, Gridley said:

 

 

[Rosetta]

That’s really good to hear, Faure!  Stabilization, yeah!  Merry Twixtmas. - Rosetta