Faure: mirtazapine withdrawal

[Mcat]

That is lucky. Can I ask why you're coming off? Was there a particular catalyst? 

[Faure]

On 4/13/2023 at 8:31 AM, Mcat said:

Can I ask why you're coming off?

Oh my god, @Mcat so many reasons!!!

 

Within a few months of starting mirtazepine I wanted to get off. While there is no doubt it rescued me from a terribly dark place I’d been in for a few months, once it had taken effect and I felt much better I realised it was making me tired (although nothing like the tired I’ve experienced since the failed taper back when I found this site in late 2019.). So twice I tried what my so called ‘psychiatrist’ said - a week at half dose and then stop - it didn’t work as insomnia hit within days and I could see I was headed back to a bad place. I was on the cusp of making changes in my life (they were happening literally the day I saw her) that probably would have meant I’d have recovered without ADs. The psychiatrist ignored this and went straight for the drug option. I even told her I didn’t want them, it was the first thing I said when I met her. I thought about taking them for 4 days and on day 4 I had such a bad day I took my first pill. 
 

So:

 

1) it made me tired

2) it made me more tired after the failed taper in 2019

3) after reinstatement I suffered terribly from fatigue. I could do nothing for about 4 months, then very part time working from home at the start of the pandemic.  Gradually, since March 2020 I have been increasing my workload by about an hour  a week once every 6 months. 

4) May 2021 I accidentally took a double dose. I was extremely high the next day. Which of course I loved. But two weeks later I felt so awful for a week that, had it not been a holiday period from work, I could not have worked. I realised it was due to this double dose. Got very scared about the power of these drugs and took about 2 weeks to come to the firm decision I wanted to get off once and for all. That was the catalyst. I came back here and was advised to do the BrassMonkey slide. 
5) research has shown the drugs are no better than a placebo. They probably cause long term damage to the brain.

6) the drug companies do NO research into the long term effects of these drugs.  Neither do they do any research into WD effects in people who have been taking them more than a few weeks. They are not required to. It’s a disgrace. They should be made to do this before they get a license for the drug. 

 

Is that enough reasons?!!! I’m very angry about what this drug has done to me these past few years. I have suffered a lot of lost income, time with friends and especially family and my ability to live life the way I want to. 
 

I will never take anti depressants again. I am extremely wary of doctors, have no respect for my psychiatrist and am very sceptical of all medical professionals.  They really do not know best at all.  About once a year my anger builds to the points I write a letter to the woman who prescribed this drug. I haven’t sent any. I probably will at some point. 

[Mcat]

I hear you, and I'm with you on so many of these fronts (though I don't think the fatigue is quite as bad for me overall), except in my case, throw in the jerks and an extra stone of weight I did not need. I'm a writer (and academic), and I've got a mind to write a blistering essay at some point about all this when I'm on the other side. 

[RKroos]

Hello, I am also doing the blassmonkey method (Although slightly different).

I would like to know what dose you plan on jumping off of mirtazapine.

I was planning to do it at 0.15mg or less, maybe 0.075mg.

I would also like to know how you feel, in relation to when you took a higher dose (15 mg)

[Chompoo]

How are you, dear @Faure? Have you stabilised from your last drop and managed to sleep better now?

[Faure]

Hi @Chompoo, thank you for checking in. By the third night my sleep was back to normal. How are you?

[Chompoo]

@Faure I am glad to hear you stabilised quickly after your last drop. My sleep is still up and down, though I am able to fall back into sleep more easily these days. All other symptoms remain unchanged. I have not dared to try any new food recently, in case I get more bouts of pain from the experiment. I wish I have more energy and motivation though. I try to distract myself with hobbies, but I feel low on some days. It feels as if my life has come to a standstill. 
 

[Faure]

Thanks @Chompoo, I have decided not to do any more bigger cuts, I think smaller ones have less negative effect on my life. I was pretty tired this weekend.

 

I’m sorry you’re still feeling bad after only 1 pill. It’s dreadful the effect these pills have. Most people here’s lives have come to a standstill and we can’t live the way we want. It’s very unfair you are experiencing this as well.  I hope it won’t be too much longer for you 🤞at least you found this website and didn’t take any more pills. 

[ColdTurkey1]

On 6/8/2021 at 10:50 PM, brassmonkey said:

Constant fatigue is a real problem while tapering.

Hi @brassmonkey

I see that you're saying the fatigue is a real problem while tapering

Is it true for all drugs ?

I thought that it's especially true for Mirtrazapine

I tried reducing the dosage a few times and failed everytime because the fatigue was too much for me and caused depression

Do you think that big reductions cause more fatigue or less than small reductions ? Because I reduced 1/4 of a pill

I started thinking of taking a few months off life and doing a fast withdrawal, 10% a week, in order to suffer less time from the fatigue. 

But maybe it's not such a great idea...

[ColdTurkey1]

On 8/24/2022 at 11:48 AM, Santino said:

It is like you are very tired and you do not want to do any thing at all. All the mirtazapine taperers complain from such feeling when they reach 6-2.5mg

@Santino

If all taperes, me as well, get mroe and more tired and lethargic as the doses go down... maybe it's better to try to taper much faster ? 

For me tiredness really gets me depressed... so maybe it's better to quit quickly and deal with the mood destabilization and at least not with the tiredness ?

[Mcat]

I just did my first drop from 7.5 to 6.75, which is above the range of 6-2.5mg, and I was super fatigued all the time for about 10 days. I was pretty shocked at how bad it was. Back to normal now, but from what you're all saying, I can look forward to more of where that came from. I find it odd that it should cause more fatigue the lower you go. Does anyone have any reasoning for this?

 

I know at lower doses Mirt acts like an anti-histamine, but my standard dose (for sleep) was low: 7.5 and it didn't cause daytime fatigue after the initial adjustment period of a week or so. And I didn't notice daytime fatigue of this kind when I tapered off too fast earlier in the year (but hard to tell, I guess, as I went into severe chemical insomnia, so wasn't sleeping much and was exhausted all the time). Maybe the WD anxiety kept my adrenaline high and fought off the fatigue. 

[Chompoo]

@Faure smaller cuts are probably easy on the body. I hope you will get less fatigued after your next cut.

 

It's sad how our lives are all disrupted by this horrid pill. Because my sleep goes up and down, I sometimes don't know if I'm recovering at all. I try to distract myself so I don't think so much. Some days I'm ok, other days I feel quite low. I hope this period of suffering will pass quickly for all of us.

[Faure]

Quote

   On 10/14/2022 at 9:59 PM,  ChessieCat said:

As my dose got lower it felt stupid to be taking such a tiny dose but even though I sometimes became impatient to be off, I think it was worth the time and effort to do it slowly.

Just commenting on this post of Chessie’s. I had a bit of a lapse of discipline last week. I was on 3mg and felt impatient. I decided to do a double drop last Monday (to 2.8mg),  overall while I felt good for a couple of days the fatigue was worse than usual after that so I have recommitted to sticking to the plan (BrassMonkey slide for me). It’s such a pain!  I just want to be off but I don’t want to get ill getting off. One lapse in nearly two years isn’t too bad. I am finding it easier and easier as I drop, I know others find it harder. 

In the interests of keeping my thread up to date and also showing that we all get impatient to be off and do things that perhaps aren’t sensible 🙄 I’m copying this over from another place where I responded to a comment from ChessieCat ☺️

[Chompoo]

On 4/17/2023 at 2:24 PM, Faure said:

Thanks @Chompoo, I have decided not to do any more bigger cuts, I think smaller ones have less negative effect on my life. I was pretty tired this weekend.

 

 

No judgment from me @Faure. Just agreeing with you on smaller cuts having less negative effects. I can totally understand the desire to be off Mirt soon.

[Comecloser80]

@Faure I am waking up around 4:00am every single morning since I CTed. It’s been almost 18 weeks now. I am having other symptoms too. Fatigue, sore muscles( legs and arm), whole body shakiness, brain fog, difficulty concentration but all of these symptoms seems to have lessened. 
 

I had new symptoms yesterday, chronic constipation even though I have not made any changes in my diet since I CTed . 

My biggest concern is walking up early, broken sleep, I can’t sleep after wake up and has completely lost napping ability. 
 

Can sleep issue be still related to withdrawal being 18 weeks off? Will it get better overtime? 

[Faure]

10 hours ago, Purae said:

@Faure I am waking up around 4:00am every single morning since I CTed. It’s been almost 18 weeks now. I am having other symptoms too. Fatigue, sore muscles( legs and arm), whole body shakiness, brain fog, difficulty concentration but all of these symptoms seems to have lessened. 
 

I had new symptoms yesterday, chronic constipation even though I have not made any changes in my diet since I CTed . 

My biggest concern is walking up early, broken sleep, I can’t sleep after wake up and has completely lost napping ability. 
 

Can sleep issue be still related to withdrawal being 18 weeks off? Will it get better overtime? 

Hello @Purae, I’m sorry you’re still having WD symptoms.  I have had a look at your thread and it looks to me like you probably had adverse reactions to anti depressants and should avoid all of them in the future (one post mentioned your doctor wanted to ‘try’ another - don’t let them do this, it often makes things worse). 
 

I lost my napping ability as soon as I was on mirtazepine and it has only returned lately as my dose has reduced by so much. I love being able to nap after I wake up now! So yes, this will probably return. It is unlikely you have done any long term damage to your brain, it just needs time to recover after a few upsets. 
 

I used to wake up early on the morning after a dose drop, this has improved as my dose got lower. 
 

The fatigue after a reinstatement a few years ago was dreadful and ruined my life for a couple of years. It has been slowly improving over time and I’m hopeful as I get even lower I’ll be able to do everything I used to be able to do. I know people on here have full recoveries and I’m sure we will as well. 
 

You might be interested in @Chompoo’s thread, she had a dreadful reaction after only 1 mirtazepine pill and is still suffering from the adverse effects. 
 

So don’t despair, you will get your old self back. It’s important in the meantime to keep a very stable, steady life with no big changes (if you can help it), including any other psychiatric medications. And plenty of rest. Things will improve ☺️

[Comecloser80]

13 minutes ago, Faure said:

Hello @Purae, I’m sorry you’re still having WD symptoms.  I have had a look at your thread and it looks to me like you probably had adverse reactions to anti depressants and should avoid all of them in the future (one post mentioned your doctor wanted to ‘try’ another - don’t let them do this, it often makes things worse). 
 

I lost my napping ability as soon as I was on mirtazepine and it has only returned lately as my dose has reduced by so much. I love being able to nap after I wake up now! So yes, this will probably return. It is unlikely you have done any long term damage to your brain, it just needs time to recover after a few upsets. 
 

I used to wake up early on the morning after a dose drop, this has improved as my dose got lower. 
 

The fatigue after a reinstatement a few years ago was dreadful and ruined my life for a couple of years. It has been slowly improving over time and I’m hopeful as I get even lower I’ll be able to do everything I used to be able to do. I know people on here have full recoveries and I’m sure we will as well. 
 

You might be interested in @Chompoo’s thread, she had a dreadful reaction after only 1 mirtazepine pill and is still suffering from the adverse effects. 
 

So don’t despair, you will get your old self back. It’s important in the meantime to keep a very stable, steady life with no big changes (if you can help it), including any other psychiatric medications. And plenty of rest. Things will improve ☺️

Thank you for reassurance @Faure. It gives me hope. 

[Chompoo]

@Faure how have you been? I hope you have been away from SA because you're happily enjoying your life?

[Faure]

Hello dear @Chompoo, yes thank you, I’m pleased to say things are going pretty well for me at the moment. Thanks for checking in ☺️

[Chompoo]

@Faure so happy to hear that. I hope the good times continue

I know Purae by the way. We met at one of the Facebook groups for Mirtazapine withdrawals. Sleeping is very important to him and he is more upset by this symptom than all his other symptoms. He is unable to accept that insomnia is a symptom that will take a long time to resolve, and was always looking for a magic pill or some technique that will get rid of it. Despite having financial difficulties, he was willing to pay for expensive supplements and sleep coaching sessions. Personally, I have tried lots of sedative supplements and practised all kinds of relaxation techniques. None of them worked. In the end, my sleep improved because of time. I was able to sleep more simply becasue my body healed. Purae told me at some point that his insomnia is not a withdrawal symptom and he will find a solution for it. I wish him well but I no longer wish to spend any time telling him that all we need is time, patience and acceptance. Insomnia will improve, even without any effort from us, just like all our other symptoms will improve.

[Faure]

Two days ago I went down to 2.5mg. I’m pleased to say that today, my regular day off from work, I woke up bright and early, swam 600m and did a large food shop. The good news is, I felt like I actually had some energy for the first time in about 3 years!  Long may it last. 
 

While the dose drops are miniscule at this dose the benefit of the drop seems to be far greater.  I am feeling better and better (although totm really does bring me down which it didn’t use to, I am definitely perimenopausal 🙄).

 

Keep going friends, we will all get there at our own pace ☺️

[almuPA]

That is great news, dear @Faure!

It is great that you are feeling good and seeing good results at your own pace. I am sure it will give hope to a lot of people reading your threat and it will set a good example for others who are tempted to CT. 

 

You are getting there!

 

[Mcat]

That's exciting news - that the smaller drops as you go down have bigger gains. And lovely to hear you are doing so well. 

[Faure]

On 5/11/2023 at 12:08 AM, Chompoo said:

know Purae by the way. We met at one of the Facebook groups for Mirtazapine withdrawals. Sleeping is very important to him and he is more upset by this symptom than all his other symptoms. He is unable to accept that insomnia is a symptom that will take a long time to resolve, and was always looking for a magic pill or some technique that will get rid of it. Despite having financial difficulties, he was willing to pay for expensive supplements and sleep coaching sessions. Personally, I have tried lots of sedative supplements and practised all kinds of relaxation techniques. None of them worked. In the end, my sleep improved because of time. I was able to sleep more simply becasue my body healed. Purae told me at some point that his insomnia is not a withdrawal symptom and he will find a solution for it. I wish him well but I no longer wish to spend any time telling him that all we need is time, patience and acceptance. Insomnia will improve, even without any effort from us, just like all our other symptoms will improve.

Dear @Chompoo I just wanted to remind you of these words you said about insomnia as I know at the moment it is a very distressing symptom for you xx

[Mcat]

Hello @Faure! How is your taper going? I know you're almost at microdosing stage - or maybe you're there already. I did my most recent drop last night, still going down by 10% (now on 3.64). So far, so good, but I'm seriously thinking of moving to the slide soon as I do seem to get a very dark mood patch between days 4-18. I'm just going to observe this taper and see how I go for deciding how to proceed from here. My question is: how on earth do you calculate and dose 2.5% drops? I'm using a 1ml syringe and my liquid is (chemist prepped) 5mg to 1ml. The chemist has been helping me with calculations re translating mg dose to ml dose, but I don't feel like I can bother them every week for advice. If you have any handy tips, I'd be grateful to hear them. 

[brassmonkey]

Add 1mL of chemist prepared solution to 4mL of water. This will give a solution that is 1:1 meaning 1mg active ingredient to 1mL of liquid. The markings on the 1mL syringe should be enough to work out the reduction rate.

[Mcat]

Ah, thanks. I see what you mean - 1:1 ratio is way easier for dosing, especially when you're tapering in small amounts, e.g., 2.5%. I could just as easily get a 1:1 preparation next time I get a script filled out, so perhaps I'll do that. It's still quite tricky to work out how to handle the odd amounts. For example, I'm on 3.64mg currently and the chemist advised that translates to one tiny bar over 0.7ml for my 5:1 current ratio and I expect they've rounded up or down because how could you get .64mg on the syringe? 

[Faure]

Sounds complicated! I do mine differently so am afraid I can’t help but looks like BrassMonkey has helped you ☺️ good luck!

[Faure]

A little update. I’m now below 2mg - hooray!
 

September is always a stressful /busy time as I go back to work after a long summer break. I usually get overwhelmed at this time of year. This year I did things differently, or at least tried to. I started work (I teach piano) 2 weeks before I started teaching so got all emails / planning / studying etc done while I wasn’t working. This made for a really smooth easy start to the year which was just as well as I started getting quite heavily involved helping my parents with something. This meant I got tired quickly and slightly anxious afterall but for different reasons!  Luckily I quickly recognised it and stepped back. I think I’m starting to feel myself again now after a few days of taking it very easy. I had some very low level anxiety, that was all. I also have my work schedule set up so if I have trouble like this I don’t have more work than I can manage, even at rocky times. 

 

Fingers crossed I’m through my usual tricky time and this is a reminder to keep up the meditation because I always notice, as soon as I start meditating, whether I’m tired or not and being aware of how I feel means I can plan my day accordingly instead of rushing headlong into things I feel I need to get done and wearing myself out even more!

[Mcat]

That's exciting. I'd love to be under 2mg, but I'm at just under half the dose I was at when I found this site in Feb this year, so I can't complain. Re the anxiety you mention - do you think it's been 'normal' anxiety (I mean, it would be hard not to experience any anxiety at all given *gestures at the state of the world*) or WD? I suppose we can't always know, but like you, I find mindfulness and meditation helps more than anything.

[Faure]

I’m thinking I’ll have an unscheduled hold on 1.8mg for a few weeks. I’m feeling wobbly, on and off, and not recovering as much as I thought I would after overdoing things. It’s disappointing, but better safe than sorry. I’m getting randomly anxious, the other day I felt pretty depressed for a couple of hours. I don’t want things to spiral.

 

I know many people say they need to go slower at the lower doses and now it seems to be happening to me. I’ve had such a good taper so far, no WD effects that have troubled me, life has got better and better so I think taking a tapering break is a good idea if that’s what I need. I saw BrassMonkey say it’s often a good idea to have a long hold before the last part of the taper.  I don’t think I’m at the last part yet but I want to get there in one piece.
 

I’m on such a low dose that adverse effects are not troubling me too much other than tiredness which has been my problem all along with this drug. Hopefully a hold will settle things down and I’ll start to feel better. 🙁 My body always tells me when it’s time to go again, so I’ll wait for that feeling. 

[Mcat]

This all sounds sensible. I expect I'll need to do the same. Did Brassmonkey say what kind of period a 'long hold' is? And what's considered the 'last part of the taper' - under 1mg, perhaps? And yes, I think it helps to be very in touch with your body; I'm grateful that I am. I get a strong sense of what's okay and what's not, which is what helped me jump back down to the 7.5 off the 15mg dose that every single health professional I consulted (about three) in that rocky period when I arrived here insisted I should be on. So, trust your gut. I guess the rule of thumb is that it never hurts to glow slower and have a longer hold, apart from it taking a bit longer to get drug-free, but it can really hurt to go too fast. 

[Faure]

I think by the end of our taper we are all very used to listening to our bodies and can judge the length of the hold based on that. This (first post) is what I was reading the other day. 
 

It appears to be going to take 2-3 years (🙄) to get off the last 1mg ☹️. It’s such a bore to still not feel much better after lots of rest and sleep. I spent 11.5 hours in bed last night, most of it asleep! And I’ve taken it easy all week with lots of similar nights. 

[almuPA]

On 9/30/2023 at 8:56 PM, Faure said:

I’m thinking I’ll have an unscheduled hold on 1.8mg for a few weeks. I’m feeling wobbly, on and off, and not recovering as much as I thought I would after overdoing things. It’s disappointing, but better safe than sorry. I’m getting randomly anxious, the other day I felt pretty depressed for a couple of hours. I don’t want things to spiral.

 

I know many people say they need to go slower at the lower doses and now it seems to be happening to me. I’ve had such a good taper so far, no WD effects that have troubled me, life has got better and better so I think taking a tapering break is a good idea if that’s what I need. I saw BrassMonkey say it’s often a good idea to have a long hold before the last part of the taper.  I don’t think I’m at the last part yet but I want to get there in one piece.
 

I’m on such a low dose that adverse effects are not troubling me too much other than tiredness which has been my problem all along with this drug. Hopefully a hold will settle things down and I’ll start to feel better. 🙁 My body always tells me when it’s time to go again, so I’ll wait for that feeling. 

 

Hello, @faure,

 

It sounds very smart and reasoning. I know I repeat myself a lot, but as someone who CT'ed, please, don't rush it. I understand that sometimes you can feel impatience, but as you said so wisely, it is better to get there in one piece.

 

When we feel better, it is quite normal to overdo it. But keep in mind that we are still recovering, so sometimes it can have an effect in our system. It is hard to remind ourselves that in the moment, because it fells so good to feel good! 

 

However, it looks from past posts that you are doing exciting improvements (so happy for you!). 

 

Hope you are doing ok.

 

[Faure]

I’m on around 1.5mg now. It takes 2-3 weeks to get through each .1mg drop now. Last cycle I had two weeks (3&4) where I felt unreasonably worried that I was going to get ill (by that I mean anxious). It passed in weeks 5&6 (the usual hold). (I’m doing the BrassMonkey slide.)
 

When I made up my pills yesterday for the start of week 3 (after a very busy fortnight involving way more activity than usual including having new carpet and decorating done and way more exercise than usual) I thought to myself I should really repeat week 2 again (I.e. have a hold). I decided against it but this morning, feeling a bit anxious, I wish I had gone with the hold. I was so tired yesterday I went to bed at 7pm for around 12 hours. 
 

Since the advice is we may need to go slower at the lower doses I wonder if now it’s time to start a mid taper hold I.e taper weeks 1&2, hold week 3, then taper weeks 4&5 before the scheduled 2 week hold. Since I wondered about that last month and again this month I think I’ll do that. I don’t want to be feeling rubbish over Christmas, although it may be too late for that, but at least a hold will allow me to stabilise a bit before the New Year. 
 

Wishing everyone a happy holiday period, Faure ☺️🎄☺️

[Mcat]

Hi Faure, this is useful info for me to hear, and your suggestion of a mid-taper hold sounds good. I moved to the Brassmonkey Slide a couple of holds ago, and the first time I did it, it was a mild ride. Then I got impatient and did a 10% drop down to 2.9mg and had a hairy time of it, so I ended up holding and taking as long as I would if I'd stuck to the Slide to be ready for the next drop, so it's the Slide for me now all the way. And I'll keep this mid-taper protocol in mind if I feel I need it once I'm down under 2mg.

 

Thanks so much for all your support this year. I hope 2024 is a good one for you, and you'll be near done with Mirt by the end of it, no?