Subzero42 : introduction

[Subzero42]

Hello Everyone,

 

I'm a new member of this forum and since I've been warned by AltoStrata, I start a topic to introduce myself

 

I have been on medication since February 2017, initially on Seroplex 10mg which was gradually increased to 20mg.

In Novemeber 2017, i quitted cold turkey Seroplex and felt horrible for about a month when i decided it was time to reinstate.

A month later, in spite of reinstatement symptoms would not seem to alleviate so GP put me on Effexor 75mg.

I took both Seroplex 20mg and Effexor 75mg for nearly 4 months before my symptoms went away and I started to feel better than I have ever felt.

At this time, I still do not know if this was due to Seroplex reinstatement or the fact that i was put on Effexor.

 

In May 2018, I started to taper Seroplex very slowly before i quitted completely in January 2019, no withdrawal symptom at all..

Maybe it was because i was on Effexor ? Or maybe because since i tried to taper Seroplex once already, my nervous system rejected it and it was kind of like i took no seroplex? Don't know if i'm clear enough.

Once Seroplex has benn tapered, i decided it was time to Effexor to be tapered as well.

 

In April 2019, I took about 56mg instead of 75mg : no WD symptom.

In May 2019, I took 37,5mg instead of 56mg : no WD symptom.

In June 2019, I took about 18mg instead of 37,5mg : a few WD symptoms but well tolerated.

I thought I was finally free of medication : what a mistake. 2 or 3 weeks later I started to have horrible headaches, panic attack so i decided to reinstate a small dose of effexor. Since like symptoms would not seem to alleviate I reinstated completely Effexor in Mid August.

I started to experience the classical Waves and Windows pattern, it's been nearly 3 months and I'm still in that Waves and Windows phase.

 

I don't know if my reinstatement is working.

I don't know if I should add another drug like i did for seroplex.

I don't know how long it's going to last.

I'm lost.

I need help.

[Rhiannon]

A moderator will be in here soon to help you out. We are all volunteers with full lives and many of us dealing with our own withdrawal here, so please be patient.

 

If the history you have described is your only history with psychiatric drugs, I think you have a good chance of being able to come off the Effexor. I think you just went too fast at the lower doses. The lower doses actually have to be tapered more slowly than high doses. Here is why:

 

You have tapered off one drug and then tapered down fast from another one in a fairly short time, and you have been hit with delayed withdrawal, which is common with antidepressants. 

 

Please clarify what date you quit taking Effexor completely and what date you reinstated and what dose you reinstated at. Also please put your drug history into your "signature" line like this

 

This will make it easier for people to see your history right away rather than having to dig around the forum for it.

 

You are going to be okay. It is probably going to take a lot longer than you would like, however, and it will be a rocky road. And if you add in other meds and change meds, it can just extend the suffering, so please do not change any meds right now until some moderators have had a chance to weigh in.

[Subzero42]

Thank you very much for your answer

 

I quitted Effexor completely on July 1st

I reinstated a small amount of drug ( that is to say like 8 beads when a capsule contains about 100 beads ) at the end of July ( like the 27 )

I reinstated 37,5mg on August 15th

I have been on Effexor 37,5mg since.

 

I understand you all have your lives and your own withdrawal to handle that's why i'm sorry if my post seemed a bit supplicant

[Subzero42]

Also when you say, it's gonna take long do you have an idea how long it's gonna take ? I'm very afraid that my reinstatement may not be working and to be stuck in withdrawal for years.....

If someone else could give his opinion I'd be very grateful.

Thanks by advance

[Subzero42]

Up, isnt' there anyone else here ?

[Gridley]

On 11/9/2019 at 8:40 AM, Subzero42 said:

Also when you say, it's gonna take long do you have an idea how long it's gonna take

 

Unfortunately, there is no way to predict how long it will take to recover.  It is different for everybody.  As Rhiannon said, healing will happen but it's likely going to take longer than any of us would like. 

 

We are a site for going off drugs and as such we don't recommend adding other drugs.

 

What are your symptoms?

 

Why do you feel your reinstatement isn't working?

[Subzero42]

 

51 minutes ago, Gridley said:

 

Unfortunately, there is no way to predict how long it will take to recover.  It is different for everybody.  As Rhiannon said, healing will happen but it's likely going to take longer than any of us would like. 

 

We are a site for going off drugs and as such we don't recommend adding other drugs.

 

What are your symptoms?

 

Why do you feel your reinstatement isn't working?

 

For about two months, I was in a sort of rollercoaster, I could feel terrible at a moment and great a few hours later.

But since the beginning of October, things are different : I don't have physical symptoms like I had a few weeks ago ( headache, anxiety, vividous dreams, feeling of depersonalization... ) unfortunately i don't have time where I feel good either. That's what makes me think that reinstatement may have not worked.

I feel like myself but a diminished myself : not as confident, as happy and enthousiatic as my old self. I have hard time to get concentrate through college class.

It is a bit intriguing because things ain't  supposed to get better as time goes on?

 

Pardon my mistakes ( European ) and thanks for your reply

[Gridley]

1 minute ago, Subzero42 said:

 

It is a bit intriguing because things ain't  supposed to get better as time goes on?

 

Your description of a rollercoaster is very accurate.  Things get better but very, very gradually.  The journey is up and down, what we call windows (good days or portions of days) and waves (bad days).

 

The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

Reinstatement, unfortunately, doesn't eliminate withdrawal symptoms but rather makes them tolerable.

[Subzero42]

Hello, 

 

Two weeks ago, I took by mistake 2 pills of effexor instead of one, I don't know if this is a coincidence or not but I had a big relief the days following. I took again 2 pills last monday ( knowingly this time ) and again, big relief 

 

Should I consider updose to 75mg ? Or less , reinstate only a few beads more ?

 

I am aware that you don't recommend adding drugs that's why I hope this post won't be mistaken.

 

I'm waiting for your advice and thanks by advance

[Subzero42]

I finally stayed on 37,5mg of Effexor, had a bad reaction on 75mg after two days.

I consider using this topic as a daily journal to post how I feel every day

 

This evening i’m going to sum up the day in terms of feeling and symptoms ( no that anyone cares but It will help )

 

Thanks for those who helped me anyway

[Subzero42]

4 months after reinstatement, still suffering...

I wish I had never start medication

[Erell]

Hi Subzero

 

I just discovered your thread. I'm sorry you had such a rollercoaster, I know how tiring it is!

 

- You said you aren't in a rollercoaster anymore but more in "blah " feeling, je that still current ?

As Gridley said, stabilisation doesnt mean no symptoms, but tolerable symptoms. 

 

- I know how 4 months Feels like eternity, but in terms of stabilisation it is not very long. 

You've gone through the bumpy ride and sound like you're feeling more stabilised, it seems you're on the good path

 

could you describe how your symptoms changed in 4 months ? What kind of improvements have you seen ?

 

Good evening 

[Subzero42]

48 minutes ago, Erell said:

- You said you aren't in a rollercoaster anymore but more in "blah " feeling, je that still current ?

 

It is, except that since mid November I begin to have clear windows where I feel like my old self, I'm in a wave since Saturday afternoon though, I hope a window will soon appear.

 

55 minutes ago, Erell said:

As Gridley said, stabilisation doesnt mean no symptoms, but tolerable symptoms. 

 

That is what scares me actually, I'm afraid of the time required before I feel back to myself

 

57 minutes ago, Erell said:

could you describe how your symptoms changed in 4 months ? What kind of improvements have you seen ?

 

For the first two months after reinstatement, that is to say between mid August and mid October, I was in a rollercoaster where I could feel worse than ever the morning and better than ever the evening and I experienced all classical discontinuation symptoms :

 

- Horrible headache ( Now tolerable )

- Panic Attack ( only at the very beginning )

- Nightmares ( Now just dreams a bit strange )

- Feeling of  depersonalization ( not anymore )

- Strange sense of smell

- Unexpected thoughts

- Depression ( only since Mid october where I thought it was a relapse when i realized it was WD )

- Flu like symptoms ( mostly gone )

- Brain zaps ( mostly gone)

 

On one hand, I have times when I feel like I'm on the way of healing, but on the other hand, I have days where symptoms worsenend and I think I'm never gonna make it.

Overall, I have a feeling of latent anxiety when I'm afraid of what is gonna come next

[Erell]

On 12/12/2019 at 9:21 PM, Subzero42 said:

 

It is, except that since mid November I begin to have clear windows where I feel like my old self, I'm in a wave since Saturday afternoon though, I hope a window will soon appear.

On one hand, I have times when I feel like I'm on the way of healing, but on the other hand, I have days where symptoms worsenend and I think I'm never gonna make it.

Overall, I have a feeling of latent anxiety when I'm afraid of what is gonna come next

 

You are clearly healing dear : you sound like in a windows and waves pattern, and feeling like you oldself is a very good sign ! ❤️

Anxiety and despair are WD symptoms : as time passes, they will fade and you will have more time while you feel like your oldself

 

On 12/12/2019 at 9:21 PM, Subzero42 said:

 

That is what scares me actually, I'm afraid of the time required before I feel back to myself

I utterly understand, I feel the same. But when I notice that im scared about the time required I wonder : what else can I do? What are my other options?

Clearly, none. So I try to accept that it will take time and that patience is required. Acceptance is the key, I truly believe it, even if I struggle to apply it to myself

 

You really seem to be on the good path, you'll get better eventually 

 

[Subzero42]

Diary feeling, 

 

8am : Woke up and took Effexor 37,5mg

8 - 10am : Felt quite good although a bit Anxious.

10am - 1pm : Felt very good

1pm - 3pm : Felt a bit anxious and depressed

3pm - 5pm : Felt depressed and tired, stayed in bed.

5pm - 9pm : Felt rather good although a bit depressed but nothing compared to a few hours ago

 

It’s the first time I make a feeling report but I try to make it more often from now on

[Subzero42]

Diary Thursday December 17th

 

- 8am : Took Effexor 37,5mg

- 8am - 1pm : Sleep

- 1pm - 8pm : Felt good

- 8pm - 10pm : Irritability, anger, headache

[Subzero42]

Did not take Effexor today, my alarm didn’t wake me up

 

Had depressed feelings all day long

[Subzero42]

In a wave again, depressed feeling, despair....

[Erell]

Hi Subzero, 

 

Have you noticed if there were a relation between your waves of despair and your menstrual cycle? 

 

Sending you sweet hugs ❤️

[Subzero42]

3 hours ago, Erell said:

Hi Subzero, 

 

Have you noticed if there were a relation between your waves of despair and your menstrual cycle? 

 

Sending you sweet hugs ❤️

 

I am a boy actually

[Erell]

Don't know why,  I thought you were a woman  😄

Sorry for the mistake !

[Sassenach]

On 12/24/2019 at 8:42 PM, Subzero42 said:

Did not take Effexor today, my alarm didn’t wake me up

Hi Subzero

 

Why did you not take your effexor as soon as you woke.

We recommend taking meds at the same time every day but a couple of hours late is better than missing altogether.

However we have all missed doses from time but it does have an effect for a few days.

As you were feeling better in the days before you should return to that in a few days.

 

 

Sassenach

[Subzero42]

22 hours ago, Sassenach said:

Hi Subzero

 

Why did you not take your effexor as soon as you woke.

We recommend taking meds at the same time every day but a couple of hours late is better than missing altogether.

However we have all missed doses from time but it does have an effect for a few days.

As you were feeling better in the days before you should return to that in a few days.

 

 

Sassenach

 

When I woke up, it was almost four hours after when I take my dose usually, but i don’t think my depressed feelings is due to this missed dose anyway

[Subzero42]

Diary Feeling

 

- A wave started last Saturday, I felt worse during one week.

- Now it seems to improve, i think a window is slowly opening 

[Erell]

On 12/28/2019 at 6:38 PM, Subzero42 said:

 

When I woke up, it was almost four hours after when I take my dose usually, but i don’t think my depressed feelings is due to this missed dose anyway

 

Hi Subzero, 

 

as Sassenach said, even if it was 4hours later than usual, better for your CNS stability to take your dose rather than to skip it.

 

I'm glad to read that a window is coming for you

 

Enjoy !

[Subzero42]

Feeling kind of weird these last days, I feel in a way i didn’t felt before, does that mean that a new stage of healing is coming ?

 

Also, I have noticed a pattern in my symptom evolution, kind of like I have one week « on » and one week « off ».

Does anyone else observe this pattern ?

[Erell]

15 hours ago, Subzero42 said:

Feeling kind of weird these last days, I feel in a way i didn’t felt before, does that mean that a new stage of healing is coming 

Changes are good, it may mean that your CNS is working on other adjustments

15 hours ago, Subzero42 said:

Also, I have noticed a pattern in my symptom evolution, kind of like I have one week « on » and one week « off ».

Does anyone else observe this pattern ?

We all have different patterns, yours sound pretty good : your CNS seems To work pretty fast with these weekly change. Feeling 'on' every two weeks sounds like a good ratio !

 

❤

[Subzero42]

5 Months of Reinstatement

[Subzero42]

During Windows :

«  I will definitely make it »

 

During Waves :

« I’m never gonna make it »

 

Which one is right ?

 

[pinciukas]

On 11/7/2019 at 4:55 PM, Subzero42 said:

Hello Everyone,

 

I'm a new member of this forum and since I've been warned by AltoStrata, I start a topic to introduce myself

 

I have been on medication since February 2017, initially on Seroplex 10mg which was gradually increased to 20mg.

In Novemeber 2017, i quitted cold turkey Seroplex and felt horrible for about a month when i decided it was time to reinstate.

A month later, in spite of reinstatement symptoms would not seem to alleviate so GP put me on Effexor 75mg.

I took both Seroplex 20mg and Effexor 75mg for nearly 4 months before my symptoms went away and I started to feel better than I have ever felt.

At this time, I still do not know if this was due to Seroplex reinstatement or the fact that i was put on Effexor.

 

In May 2018, I started to taper Seroplex very slowly before i quitted completely in January 2019, no withdrawal symptom at all..

Maybe it was because i was on Effexor ? Or maybe because since i tried to taper Seroplex once already, my nervous system rejected it and it was kind of like i took no seroplex? Don't know if i'm clear enough.

Once Seroplex has benn tapered, i decided it was time to Effexor to be tapered as well.

 

In April 2019, I took about 56mg instead of 75mg : no WD symptom.

In May 2019, I took 37,5mg instead of 56mg : no WD symptom.

In June 2019, I took about 18mg instead of 37,5mg : a few WD symptoms but well tolerated.

I thought I was finally free of medication : what a mistake. 2 or 3 weeks later I started to have horrible headaches, panic attack so i decided to reinstate a small dose of effexor. Since like symptoms would not seem to alleviate I reinstated completely Effexor in Mid August.

I started to experience the classical Waves and Windows pattern, it's been nearly 3 months and I'm still in that Waves and Windows phase.

 

I don't know if my reinstatement is working.

I don't know if I should add another drug like i did for seroplex.

I don't know how long it's going to last.

I'm lost.

I need help.

For which condition you took you medication? Depression anxiety disorders? And why do you quit so fast and cold turkey?

[Subzero42]

10 minutes ago, pinciukas said:

For which condition you took you medication? Depression anxiety disorders? And why do you quit so fast and cold turkey?

 

I suffered depression since June 2016, that’s why I was put on Seroplex in the first place, after 9 months I felt like I didn’t need it anymore and I quit cold turkey since I had never heard of withdrawal before

 

Concernig Effexor, I naively thought that a few months taper would be enough which wasn’t so I was back into WD again

[pinciukas]

6 minutes ago, Subzero42 said:

 

I suffered depression since June 2016, that’s why I was put on Seroplex in the first place, after 9 months I felt like I didn’t need it anymore and I quit cold turkey since I had never heard of withdrawal before

 

Concernig Effexor, I naively thought that a few months taper would be enough which wasn’t so I was back into WD again

Are you doing psychotherapy or any other therapy? Those drugs only ease symptoms but don't cure depression or any other condition. You still need to found root of your depression.

[Subzero42]

7 minutes ago, pinciukas said:

Are you doing psychotherapy or any other therapy? Those drugs only ease symptoms but don't cure depression or any other condition. You still need to found root of your depression.

 

That’s what I’m working on for the last 3 years, on a other subjet I don’t think this drugs help easing Depression symptoms.

Actually, I wish I had never start them

[Subzero42]

Still withdrawal, how long will it last ?

[Subzero42]

It’s been nearly 6 months that I reinstated Effexor now, I’m still suffering, does that mean that it didn’t work or should I just wait longer ?

[pinciukas]

1 hour ago, Subzero42 said:

It’s been nearly 6 months that I reinstated Effexor now, I’m still suffering, does that mean that it didn’t work or should I just wait longer ?

6-8 weeks is needed to see improvements on antidepressants but 6 months without any is too long.