Subzero42 : introduction

[Subzero42]

6 minutes ago, pinciukas said:

6-8 weeks is needed to see improvements on antidepressants but 6 months without any is too long.

 

What do you mean? Without any what?

[pinciukas]

1 minute ago, Subzero42 said:

 

What do you mean? Without any what?

I am 6 months ago you did updose and not getting better.

[Subzero42]

Just now, pinciukas said:

I am 6 months ago you did updose and not getting better.

 

Noi I am getting better, but I still have WD while I thought than 6 months would be more than enough to heal

[pinciukas]

3 minutes ago, Subzero42 said:

 

Noi I am getting better, but I still have WD while I thought than 6 months would be more than enough to heal

Ah okey. Nobody knows how hold it will take to heal.

[Subzero42]

6 Months of Reinstatement

[Subzero42]

Headache hit again, 

The February wave does not seem to stop, I start to wonder when this nightmare will end, I know no one can tell, but is it 1 year, 2 years , 5, years, 10 years ?

[Subzero42]

Window does not want to open... 

[Rozon1]

hey @Subzero42 are you still having your wave? How do you feel bud?

[Altostrata]

How are you doing, Subzero?

[Subzero42]

1 hour ago, Altostrata said:

How are you doing, Subzero?

Quite good, I still have headache, anxiety but my baseline is significantly higher, although i still need to find the adequate dosage and I don’t know how to procede 

[Altostrata]

Please explain -- what do you mean by your baseline? When did you increase Effexor? How did your symptom pattern change? When did the headache start?

[Subzero42]

On 3/20/2020 at 11:31 PM, Altostrata said:

Please explain -- what do you mean by your baseline? When did you increase Effexor? How did your symptom pattern change? When did the headache start?

By my Baseline, I mean my average state of Feeling during one day

 

I took 5 beads last Sunday, plus the usual 37,5mg pill,  although I’m making adjustements everyday to find the best amount of drug.

Concerning WD symptoms, it seems I have the same pattern every day since a week now :

 

- At 8 am, I wake up and take Effexor, feel like I’m in alert for a couple hours

- Then feel normal all day long util around 7pm when I start to have headache and depressed feelings. 
 

Id like to add that before I updose, I never had a symptom pattern that precised and repeated.

Thank you to take care, 

[Altostrata]

5 hours ago, Subzero42 said:

Concerning WD symptoms, it seems I have the same pattern every day since a week now :

 

- At 8 am, I wake up and take Effexor, feel like I’m in alert for a couple hours

- Then feel normal all day long util around 7pm when I start to have headache and depressed feelings. 

 

If it happens on a regular schedule, chances are a symptom is related to something else you do on a regular schedule. Do you do anything every day in the evening?

 

Do you drink caffeine?

 

It sounds like initially, your daily dosage of Effexor is stimulating. It's up to you to decide whether this is beneficial or not.

 

It may take more than a week for your system to settle down from the drug change.

[Subzero42]

15 hours ago, Altostrata said:

 

If it happens on a regular schedule, chances are a symptom is related to something else you do on a regular schedule. Do you do anything every day in the evening?

 

Do you drink caffeine?

 

It sounds like initially, your daily dosage of Effexor is stimulating. It's up to you to decide whether this is beneficial or not.

 

It may take more than a week for your system to settle down from the drug change.

I do not drink caffeine but yesterday I drank a bit of alcohol which I think contributed to my bad mood, let alone that I don’t see particular reason why I would feel bad on the evening except maybe the lack of luminosity

[Altostrata]

Even a little alcohol can throw your system off, it may take some days to recover from this.

[Subzero42]

I took 6 beads today, felt better than today with 8 beads, the perfect dose is definitely between 1 and 6 beads, how should I procede 

[manymoretodays]

Hi Subzero42, @Subzero42

When you do these dose changes, tapers or updoses, it's important to go beyond just one day with your observations.

And so....... as you just reduced from 37.5 mg plus 8 beads of Effexor, if I were you, I would stay put now, for 4-7 days, a week is often best........so that you can get a sense of how this taper affects you.  You are now taking 37.5 mg plus 6 beads of Effexor, correct?

 

What form of Effexor are you using?  XR or ER is extended release.  And then there is a immediate release form too.

 

I'm going to give you a couple links too, now, to look at, regarding WD(withdrawal), and your drug as well

 

What is Withdrawal syndrome?

Brain Remodelling

The windows and waves pattern of stabilization

 

Dr.Glenmullen’s withdrawal symptom list.

 

When we take medications, the CNS (central nervous system) responds by making changes over the months and years we take the drug(s). When the medication is discontinued, the CNS has to undo all the changes it made.  The CNS likes stability. Rebuilding the neurotransmitter production and reactivating the receptor and transporter cells takes time -- during that rebuilding process symptoms occur.

 

You may not find a "perfect dose" right now, to alleviate all WD symptoms, but you might be able to find a good sense of WD stability and then also, can use non-drug coping skills to manage.  We have a whole Symptoms and Self care forum packed with wisdom and experiences.  Hoping that you are beginning to find your way around the site a bit. 

 

*Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

*Tips for tapering off Effexor(venlafaxine)

 

We don't recommend a lot of supplements on SA, as many members report being sensitive to them due to our over-reactive nervous systems, but two supplements that we do recommend are magnesium and omega 3 (fish oil). Many people find these to be calming to the nervous system.  Best to just start one or the other, start low, and observe......before starting or trying the second one.

 

Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker 

Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil) 

 

Best,

Love, peace, healing, and growth,

manymoretodays(mmt)

 

 

 

Edited March 25, 2020 by manymoretodays
editing, deletions, added @ notification

[Subzero42]

Hello, I need some help here, 

 

First, I’d like to thanks those who answer this thread above

Since I reinstated, it became clear that a very tiny amount of drug can help reducing withdrawal symptoms, although remains a problem :

- Beads are all different sizes, and for that reason the amount of drug I take is different from one day to another which I think destabilize my CNS

 

How can I overcome this ? 

[Subzero42]

It’s ben a while since I did not post,

 

To sum up what happened during the last months : 

 

- Between March and May, I was constantly updosing to find the ideal dose that will fix my CNS, but after two months, it didn’t work anymore, my CNS was destabilized, I had to come back to 37.5 every day, I am still stabilizing and feeling a lot better than I did in January February !

 

Although I’m not fully healed yet .

 

I think I will try to updose again in a few months when I’ll be fully stabilized .

[Erell]

Hi Subzero,

 

I'm really glad to read you "feel a lot better" !

 

2 hours ago, Subzero42 said:

 Between March and May, I was constantly updosing to find the ideal dose that will fix my CNS, but after two months, it didn’t work anymore, my CNS was destabilized, 

 

Yes, we all want a quick fix, but it seems that once a CNS is destabilised there is no such thing. 

As all those ahead us keep saying, steady is the key !

 

2 hours ago, Subzero42 said:

I think I will try to updose again in a few months when I’ll be fully stabilized .

 Why do you want to updose once your CNS will stabilise  ?

 

Take care ☀️

[Subzero42]

45 minutes ago, Erell said:

Hi Subzero,

 

I'm really glad to read you "feel a lot better" !

 

 

Yes, we all want a quick fix, but it seems that once a CNS is destabilised there is no such thing. 

As all those ahead us keep saying, steady is the key !

 

 Why do you want to updose once your CNS will stabilise  ?

 

Take care ☀️

In fact, I was steady for seven months and not feeling better, so I added a few beads, and had an immediate relief. 

Although after 2 months of constant updosing my CNS got destabilized because of constant modification.

 

My theory is : an updose will work only if you’re fully stabilized. Else, it will makes things worse.

 

By stabilization, I mean having quite the same WD symptom from one week to another, I do not mean feeling good

 

 

[Subzero42]

I have a question : is it possible to never stabilize ? Being trapped in WD all life long?

[Altostrata]

How are you feeling now?

[Subzero42]

50 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

How are you feeling now?

In September, after 3 months of steadying on 37.5mg , I felt the need to updose again, but this time it didn’t work as I expected : I had an adverse reaction.
 

 I came back on 37.5mg for a week but neither did it (symptoms were worsening) as things were desperate, I tried a very small updose ( very small bead) and I had a relief.
 

Although, the first days of updosing, i felt strong anxiety, which I had never felt during the last 15 months.

 

It’s been 10 days, I’m not in a rollecoaster anymore, where symptom change every 2 hours. Now I have long portions of day where I feel pretty much the same. 
 

I also have a constant headache which seems to gradually fade as time goes on. 

[Subzero42]

Has anyone ever thought of commiting suicide ? 
 

To escape the hell of withdrawal

 

Edit : I just have seen the topic rules and guideline concerning suicide

[brassmonkey]

Suicidal Ideation (SI) is a very common symptom of ADWD. Many of our members have or are experiencing it. I've been there and it is a very frightening place to be, but it is a symptom induced by the affects of WD. Being a symptom it will clear up in its own time, but can return in waves from time to time. It can be very frightening and difficult to get through but it does go away.

 

We take the threat of suicide very seriously here at SA.  Unfortunately it can be an all too real occurrence, one that as an online support group we do not have the training or resources to deal with. It saddens us greatly that some members have chosen to make an all too permanent solution to a temporary situation. We can never know all the factors involved in that decision, and there are a lot more than appear in these posts.

 

I see you have found our discussion on the subject, so I will leave it at that.

[Katy398]

Hi Subzero,

As Brassmonkey said,  so  many members suffer from this. For me recently it seems to happen in every wave. In fact now I think about it, it’s absence is the indicator that I’m in a window!! I try and label it as a symptom, as I do with the constant anxiety and insomnia but I find SI and the existential doom and terror the hardest to label and accept. It’s very frightening and I have to say helplines and distractions get me through the worst. It’s minute by minute,  hour by hour on those days. During an episode    I keep remembering that most people actually don’t want to die,  no matter what their circumstances , WD or other,  most people who consider it really just want the pain to go away. That seems to help me as well.

 

 

I always read this 

http://www.metanoia.org/suicide/

 

And this

 

I have a  6 step safety plan, and try to tick them off to help me do all 6.  

 

-My husband always has my car keys. 

-My phone is constantly on charge so I can call helplines. 

-I try to exercise, (Walk with someone or exercise bike.) 

-I read the above links. Over and over again. 

- I call my sister or my best friend. 

- I try to distract myself with films or sudoku. 

 

My safety plan is written down so I can refer to it as soon as I get swamped with it. 

 

These feeling  have past for me over and over again throughout WD and they will for you. 

For me I KNOW it is not an option because I could never inflict that  trauma onto my loved ones.  I know someone in his 70s now, a very level headed lawyer,  lovely, kind, gentle,  intelligent man. His mother sadly died of suicide. He has never really got over it, even after counselling and support it  still plagues him,  40 years later. I think of  Pete  at these times too. 

So for me when  I’m in ‘it’  I feel like a frightened trapped animal, trapped not in a cage but in a terrible existence  that I have to endure for the rest of my life, but it passes,  today I did not feel like that all. 

Take care Subzero,

Remember every day our brain is healing slowly but surely. 

Warm Regards K

[Subzero42]

Do you think we can recover from sensitization ? 
 

After constantly going up and down on dosage, I think i may have sensitized my CNS, also I bought a digital scale to know precisely the amount of drug I take

 

Should I reduce dose or stay on the same?

[ChessieCat]

Please update your drug signature all the dates doses of all the reductions and increases.  Thank you.

 

WDnormal

 

From this post I think it might be a good idea to hold for at least another month and reassess then.

 

On 10/29/2020 at 7:32 AM, Subzero42 said:

In September, after 3 months of steadying on 37.5mg , I felt the need to updose again, but this time it didn’t work as I expected : I had an adverse reaction.
 

 I came back on 37.5mg for a week but neither did it (symptoms were worsening) as things were desperate, I tried a very small updose ( very small bead) and I had a relief.
 

Although, the first days of updosing, i felt strong anxiety, which I had never felt during the last 15 months.

 

It’s been 10 days, I’m not in a rollecoaster anymore, where symptom change every 2 hours. Now I have long portions of day where I feel pretty much the same. 
 

I also have a constant headache which seems to gradually fade as time goes on. 

 

[Subzero42]

My Parents think I feel bad because of the drug and they want me to cold turkey.

How can I explain them that it's the worst thing to do?

 

I will update my signature I promise

[ChessieCat]

Give them a print out of this leaflet:

 

 

[Subzero42]

I quitted Lexapro in January 2019, is it possible that I suffer WD from that drug in addition to Effexor ?

[ChessieCat]

On 11/15/2020 at 7:51 PM, ChessieCat said:

 

Please update your drug signature all the dates doses of all the reductions and increases.  Thank you.

 

 

I have previously asked you to add more information to your drug signature.  Please do this because it means that we do not have to make assumptions (which is what I have had to do below).

 

February 2018 : Added Effexor 75mg to ease Seroplex WD.

May 2018 - December 2018 : Slowly tapered Seroplex.

April 2019 - June 2019 : Tapered Effexor too fast.

August 2019 : Reinstated Effexor at 37,5mg.

Since March 2020 : Updose Effexor to 40 mg 

 

You state in your drug signature that you tapered Effexor too fast.  I'm assuming that you went from 75mg to 0mg in the period April to June 2019, which at the most would have been 3 months (ie whole of April, May and June).

 

Q:  Do your withdrawal symptoms seem to get worse at a particular time of the day?

 

Please provide 3 consecutive days of daily symptoms notes so that we can assess your situation.  This will allow us to see if there is a pattern.  Please see this for what is required:

 

Keep Notes on Paper

 

 

 

 

 

[Subzero42]

1st December 

 

7am : Took Effexor

7am - 10am : Dizziness, headache, irritability 

4pm - 7pm : Depressed feelings 

7pm - 11pm : Relatively good mood 

11pm : Go to bed 

[Altostrata]

Hello, @Subzero42 Do you feel better or worse after you take Effexor? Does the headache start afterward? How much Effexor are you taking? Please include the dosage in your daily notes.

[Subzero42]

11 hours ago, Altostrata said:

Hello, @Subzero42 Do you feel better or worse after you take Effexor? Does the headache start afterward? How much Effexor are you taking? Please include the dosage in your daily notes.

December 2nd

 

7.00 am : Took Effexor 45mg

7.00 am - 10 am : Feel ok

10am - 13am : Irritability, anger 

1pm - 4pm : Feel quite good although a bit depressed

4pm - 7pm : Depressed feeling

7pm - 11pm : Feel quite good

 

December 3rd

7am : Took Effexor 44mg

7am - 9.30am : Feel Ok

9.30am - 12 : Irritability, anger

12 - 3pm : Feel Ok

3pm - 6pm : Feel energetic, go for a walk shopping

6pm - 9pm : Eat, Listen to music, relatively good mood

9pm - 00 : watch movies, feel quite good but a bit restlessness

Hello, I usually don’t notice a big difference in my mood shortly after I take Effexor but a few hours later.