Gigi12: Need Advice

[Gigi12]

I have been on psychiatric meds for over 30 years. The first 10 years was Xanax and then rivritril. Later was Paxil. I started reducing Oct 2018 from20mg-15 mg. Then in Nov 2018 15 mg- 10mg. In Aug 2019 from 10mg-5mg. Then Sept 2019 from 5mg to 0. I know I did it way too fast but now 1.5 months later I have complete body pain. Mind you I have been liver flushing for 2 years so I am not sure whether the detoxing has any part in body pain. Nonetheless, my whole body feels like a truck ran over it, can’t digest food, and feel anxious and irritable. I honestly don’t know if it is related to withdrawal but hoping to hear from others. Thank you.

[Gridley]

Welcome to SA, Gigi12.

 

We do not recommend detox for anyone in withdrawal.  We are far too sensitive and it puts further stress on an already embattled system.  So, yes, detox can exacerbate withdrawal symptoms.  Altostrata, founder this site, has written re detox:

 

"Hmmm, I feel I must point out here that withdrawal symptoms are not due to toxicity, but to the ABSENCE of a drug upon which the body has become dependent. The liver has done its job properly and caused what it can to be excreted.

 

Given that we urge gradual tapering, anything of the drug remaining in fat or tissues could be considered to cushion, however minimally, the lack of the drug the body is craving. If you are in the middle of tapering, which means you're deliberately slowing the passage of the drug from your body, why would you want to speed the drug out of your system with liver detoxification (assuming that would work)?

 

My belief is that, our bodies and nervous systems being under so much stress from withdrawal, detoxing the liver or any other ritual of purification only adds further stress and doesn't do anything positive for proper withdrawal. (Liver detox was developed for serious, identifiable heavy metal poisoning.) Liver cleansing is one of those things naturopathic medicine routinely recommends for all kinds of ills, with very little evidence it helps any of them. I do not think it's appropriate for withdrawal syndrome."

 

As you may know, we recommend tapering no faster than 10% of current dose every four weeks.  

 

 http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1024-why-taper-by-10-of-my-dosage/

 

Your taper was far faster than that, and as a result you are now suffering withdrawal symptoms.  A slow taper is especially important at the lower doses.

 

What is withdrawal syndrome.

 

Glenmullen’s withdrawal symptom list.

 

When we take medications, the CNS (central nervous system) responds by making changes over the months and years we take the drug(s). When the medication is discontinued, the CNS has to undo all the changes it made. Rebuilding the neurotransmitter production and reactivating the receptor and transporter cells takes time -- during that rebuilding process symptoms occur.  

 

This explains it really well:

 

Video:  Healing From Antidepressants - Patterns of Recovery

 

At this time, reinstatement of a very small dose of the original drug is the only known way to help alleviate withdrawal syndrome.  The only other alternative is to try and wait out the symptoms and manage as best you can until your central nervous system returns to homeostasis.  Unfortunately no one can give you an exact timeline as to when you will start feeling better and while some do recover relatively easily, for others it can take many months or longer.  

 

Reinstatement isn't a guarantee of diminished symptoms for everyone but it's the best tactic available.  You're still in the time period where reinstatement predictably works, up to 3 months after last dose.  It is best to reinstate as soon as possible after withdrawal symptoms occur. We usually suggest a much smaller reinstatement dose than your last dose.  These drugs are strong, and when reinstating it is better to start with a small amount and increase if symptoms remain unbearable. Your system has become sensitized and If you take too much it may be too much for your brain and can cause you become unstable.    Then, once you've stabilized on that dosage, which can take several months,  you can begin a 10% per month taper down to zero.

 

 Please read:

 

About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms. -- at least the first page of the topic

 

If you are interested in reinstatement, I would recommend reinstating 1mg Paxil.  This link explain how to obtain this dosage,

either with Paxil liquid, making your own liquid, or weighing tablets using an AWS Gemini-20 scale available on Amazon.

 

Tips for tapering off Paxil (paroxetine)

 

It takes about 4 days for a dose change to get to get to full state in the blood and a bit longer for it to register in the brain.

 

Please let us know what you decide to do and keep us updated on how you're doing.

 

This is your Introduction topic, where you can ask questions and connect with other members.  Again, welcome.

 

 

[Gigi12]

Hi all. I have tapered to O from 5 mg of Paxil in Sept and I am now really suffering side effects. My head including ears feel  like it is about to explode. Always irritable. Shaking of cold when nobody else feels cold. My digestion is terrible but it has always been bad. What should I do?

[Sassenach]

Hello Gigi       and welcome to SA.

 

This site is run entirely by volunteer Administrators and Moderators, all have been through or going through withdrawal.

There are no commercial interests or influences  involved .

 

I am sorry you are having such a rough time but you are now in the right place.

 

The site is currently extremely busy so please ensure you answer any requests from staff fully.

Why were you prescribed Paxil?

How long have you been taking it and at what dose/doses?

Are you taking any other drugs or supplements?

Please describe your taper ie. 5%, 10%, every other day etc.

Was this taper advised by your doctor?

Do you have any paxil left?

Please follow the link below and advise what symptoms you are currently experienceing.

dr-joseph-glenmullens-withdrawal-symptom-checklist/

The only known way to mitigate withdrawal symptoms is to reinstate a low dose of the drug.

about-reinstating-and-stabilizing-to-reduce-withdrawal-symptoms/

why-taper-by-10-of-my-dosage/

the-rule-of-3kis-keep-it-simple-keep-it-slow-keep-it-stable/

the-windows-and-waves-pattern-of-stabilization/

Paxil is notoriosly difficult to taper off.

From the brief info. you have given and the limited symptom info.  you are entering withdrawal.

When we recieve your reply to the questions we will be able to advise further.

Please ensure you answer ALL the questions to avoid delays.

As soon as we recieve the drugs info. we can assess your situation.

In the meantime DO NOT MAKE ANY CHANGE TO YOUR CURRENT MEDS please.

Please feel free to browse the site, it is a wealth of info.

Other members threads will give you an insight and the opportunity to share experiences.

 

Again welcome.

 

Sassenach

 

 

[Gigi12]

19 hours ago, Gigi12 said:

Hi all. I have tapered to O from 5 mg of Paxil in Sept and I am now really suffering side effects. My head including ears feel  like it is about to explode. Always irritable. Shaking of cold when nobody else feels cold. My digestion is terrible but it has always been bad. What should I do?

I do have some Paxil left. I have been taking some type of psychiatric medication for 34 years. I initially took Xanax for anxiety. Anxiety was main symptoms but as the years went on depression became equally disturbing. 8 years ago no medication helped so I was on a quest to heal the body but continued to take 20 mg Paxil.

[Gigi12]

I didn’t do a 10% taper. In oct 2018 I went from 20mg to 15mg. Nov 2018 15 mg to 10mg. Aug 2019 10mg to 5 mg. Sept 5 mg to 0mg. Symptoms are not sleeping, head and ear pressure, irritability, no motivation, feeling extremely cold all the time ( shivering). Anxiety. Lack of appetite. I am taking b vitamins, probiotics, rhodiola, vitamin c, cod liver oil. Just started cbd oil. Also losing hair by the clumps.

[Sassenach]

Gigi

 

You are experiencing withdrawal from a too fast taper off Paxil and will need reinstatement to mitigate withdrawal symptoms.

Can you get an appointment with your doctor quickly?

It may be better to reinstate with Prozac but you will need a prescription.

Is your doctor aware that you have stopped Paxil?

Please reply asap as I will be offline soon.

 

Sassenach

[Gigi12]

Yes. My doctor is aware. How much should I re instate. I have to call him to give me lower doses so I could cut.

[Gigi12]

I could manage to cut to 2.5 mg. Do u think that is too much? Do u think It will stabilise my symptoms?

[Sassenach]

How long have you been taking CBD oil?

If it is only a few days you should stop it immediately.

I am referring this to @Altostrata, @brassmonkey to confirm Prozac is the better alternative and to suggest the best dose.

24 minutes ago, Gigi12 said:

I didn’t do a 10% taper of Paxil. In oct 2018 I went from 20mg to 15mg. Nov 2018 15 mg to 10mg. Aug 2019 10mg to 5 mg.

Sept 5 mg to 0mg.

We will get back to you asap.

Please do nothing until we get back to you.

[Gigi12]

Oh you think I should go to Prozac? I have some Elavil that was once prescribed. What do u think about adding a tiny dose of elavil?

[Sassenach]

No NO No.

Please wait Gigi, rushing will make symptoms worse.

We will agt back to you.

[Altostrata]

Hello, Gigi.

 

Paxil is a very difficult drug to go off at any rate. You might as well try taking a little Prozac as an SSRI reinstatement. I might take 1mg Prozac to start. Your doctor can prescribe the generic liquid, or you can make your own, see Tips for tapering off Prozac (fluoxetine)

 

Please put your question and updates in this topic -- only one Introductions topic to a member. Let us know how you're doing.

[Gigi12]

I don’t have access to Prozac now. Can I re instate 2.5 mg Paxil? Or 5 mg elavil?

[Gigi12]

Success. Just got a prescription. Will start tonight. How long before withdrawal symptoms abate?

[Sassenach]

Hi Gigi

 

Please confirm that you have a prescription for Prozac and that you intend to follows Alto's recommendation of one mg dose.

You  should take one mg tonight.

Ensure you take the same dose at the same time every day.

13 minutes ago, Gigi12 said:

How long before withdrawal symptoms abate

No-one can answer that as we are all different.

It takes  a week for the drug  to reach full state in the body.

At this time we will assess your progress to decide how to proceed going forward.

If you experience any adverse reaction it is essential you stop taking the drug and contact us immediately for advise.

It is helpful to keep a symptom diary to monitor your progress, we may also need this posted online in due corse.

keep-daily-notes-of-drug-schedule-and-symptoms-to-track-patterns-and-progress/

 

Keep us advised of your progress please.

 

Sassenach

 

[Gigi12]

Thank you Sassenach. I will take before bed and at 1mg. Is there anything else I should look out for?

[Sassenach]

Nothing else for the moment.

Good luck

 

Sass

[Katy398]

Hi gigi12

Welcome to SA I’m so sorry you’re in the thick of withdrawal. Everyone here knows how horrible withdrawal can sometimes be. You’re in the right place for support. The collective wealth of moderator knowledge here, is far,  far greater than any individual GP or Psychiatrist could possibly hold. 

 

I want to share my early mistakes, so others may learn from them. It helps me through my suffering somehow.

 

I too Fast track /Cold turkey ed thinking I’d tapered slowly. I was in such neurological mess when I found SA, that I found it challenging to work through the moderators links, questions and advice. By the time I’d worked through it, for me it was too late to reinstate safely and I couldn’t take the risk. 

 

Please, read through their support carefully, get help to read through it if need be and then make your decisions, ultimately they will always be your decision, moderators will only advise. 

Hang on in there Gigi12 help is here.

Apparently everyone gets better it’s just a matter of time.

Take care Kx

[Gigi12]

Hi. All. I am at my wits end. I started 1mg Prozac at night a couple of days ago and it has not helped with sleep. I decided to take 10 mg elavil since I had at home but never took. I feel more relaxed. I am also looking into MCAS. I have many of the symptoms. Was it a stupid idea to take elavil? My symptoms are lack of interest, insomnia( sleep 2-3 hours a night), no appetite, digestion difficulties. Anxiety, depression, body pain. Thank you.

[Altostrata]

Hello, Gigi, did you start 1mg Prozac and 10mg mirtazapine at the same time?

 

What times of day do you take your drugs? How do you feel before and after you take each of them?

[Gigi12]

I take 1mg Prozac nighttime and today I took 10 mg elavil in morning. I have immense insomnia, reactions to any histamine rich foods, diet is very limited. Probably only get 1000 calories. I have lost a lot of weight. I am afraid for my life.

[Altostrata]

Gigi, usually people take mirtazapine at night, for sleep.

 

If I were you, I'd stop the Prozac right away and take the 10mg mirtazapine at night. Please continue to let us know how you're doing.

[Gigi12]

I don’t take mirtazipine. It was suggested by you to take 1 mg Prozac to help with Paxil withdrawal. I took elavil this morning.

[Sassenach]

Hi Gigi

Please update your drug signature to show when you started and the 1mg dose of Prozac.

@Altostrata is very busy and uses the drug signature to keep up to date with your current meds.

On 11/14/2019 at 3:19 AM, Altostrata said:

Hello, Gigi.

 

Paxil is a very difficult drug to go off at any rate. You might as well try taking a little Prozac as an SSRI reinstatement. I might take 1mg Prozac to start. Your doctor can prescribe the generic liquid, or you can make your own, see Tips for tapering off Prozac (fluoxetine)

  Sassenach

[Altostrata]

16 hours ago, Gigi12 said:

I don’t take mirtazipine. It was suggested by you to take 1 mg Prozac to help with Paxil withdrawal. I took elavil this morning.

 

Now I'm confused. How many doses of Prozac did you take? When did you take them? How many doses of mirtazapine?

 

It's best to try only one drug at a time, so you can see what it does.

[VincentV]

16 hours ago, Gigi12 said:

I don’t take mirtazipine. It was suggested by you to take 1 mg Prozac to help with Paxil withdrawal. I took elavil this morning.

 

Just to clarify, by elavil you mean amitriptyline right? 

 

From what understand the standard SA advice is reinstatement on a low/lowest effective dose of the original antidepressant. Sometimes Prozac is considered. Just out of curiosity, why'd you take the Elavil?

 

Im totally don't want to come across as lecturing because we've all been there but I can't stress to you enough how important patience and stability is with this. I know your anxious but successful reinstatement can take time to work. The worst thing you can do is chop snd change. 

 

 

[Gigi12]

Okay. I took 1mg Prozac starting Friday At nighttime. No change in sleep or mood. Sunday I added 10mg amitripyline in morning. 

[Gigi12]

Katy398 are u better and if so, how long did it take before u did? 

[Gigi12]

6 hours ago, Altostrata said:

 

Now I'm confused. How many doses of Prozac did you take? When did you take them? How many doses of mirtazapine?

 

It's best to try only one drug at a time, so you can see what it does.

See signature for update. Should I just  re instate Paxil at 2.5 mg instead of introducing new meds?

[Altostrata]

What effect did you feel from the amitriptyline?

[Gigi12]

14 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

What effect did you feel from the amitriptyline?

It has been two days so not much that I noticed.

[Gigi12]

1 hour ago, Altostrata said:

What effect did you feel from the amitriptyline?

What do u think about 2.5 mg Paxil? I am afraid of adding anything to the mix will cause more problems. 

 

 

[Sassenach]

Hi Gigi

 

Do not add any further meds.

It is too early to tell whether the Prozac is working yet.

How are you feeling now?

How is your sleep?

What are your current symptoms?

Did you only take one dose of Amitriptyline?

rhodiola is both a mild stimulant and increases Serotonin production so not great with SSRIs.

 

Sassenach

[Gigi12]

2 hours ago, Sassenach said:

Hi Gigi

 

Do not add any further meds.

It is too early to tell whether the Prozac is working yet.

How are you feeling now?

How is your sleep?

What are your current symptoms?

Did you only take one dose of Amitriptyline?

rhodiola is both a mild stimulant and increases Serotonin production so not great with SSRIs.

 

Sassenach

I already took 3 doses of amitrypaline and i am sleeping better. My symptoms are anxiety, depression, blocked ears, head pressure, neck stiffness, pins and needles sensation all over body, no appetite, insomnia.

[Altostrata]

What times of day are you taking amitriptyline, and at what dosage?

 

What is your current sleep pattern?

 

Do your symptoms follow any daily pattern?  Please keep daily notes of times of day you take your drugs, their dosages, and your symptoms throughout the day. You can post 24 hours of notes at a time in this topic, with a simple list format with time of day on the left and notation (symptom or drug and dosage) on the right, like this:

 

Quote

6 a.m. Woke with anxiety
8 a.m. Took 2.5mg Lexapro
10 a.m. Stomach is upset
10:30 a.m. Ate breakfast
11:35 a.m. Got a headache, lasted one hour
12:35 p.m. Ate lunch
4 p.m. Feel a bit better
5 p.m. Took 2.5mg Lexapro
6 p.m. Ate dinner
9:20 p.m. Headache
10:00 p.m. Took 50mg Seroquel
10:20 p.m. Feeling dizzy
10:30 p.m. Fell asleep
2:30 a.m. Woke, took 3mg Ambien (NOT "took 1/2 tablet Ambien")
2:45 a.m. Fell asleep
4:30 a.m. Woke but got back to sleep