UnfoldingSky Posted November 8, 2019 Share Posted November 8, 2019 Hi folks, I thought I'd best post about this as I don't think this is covered here...Last night on TV where I live they ran a news story detailing that kombucha contains alcohol and it can contain more alcohol than the public is being led to believe (store bought kombucha, homemade kombucha I believe often has more than what was being said was supposed to be the amount in mass produced kombucha.) Memory is not great but I think they said if left in heat, store bought kombucha can have as much as 7% alcohol. There is now a push to have it labeled as an alcoholic beverage (was supposed to have less than I think 0.5% to not be labeled where I live, however, for those of us who had very severe reactions to psychiatric drugs and/or very severe withdrawal syndromes, even that much may not sit well with us.) So please be careful with kombucha people! I am not a medical professional and nothing I say is a medical opinion or meant to be medical advice, please seek a competent and trusted medical professional to consult for all medical decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysideup69 Posted November 8, 2019 Share Posted November 8, 2019 This is very interesting....I also stopped making water kefir because I was concerned about the same thing. Still drink milk kefir, homemade, occasionally. January 2008 to April 2015 Citalopram 20mg to 5mg, reducing in 50 per cent leaps. Jumped off at 5mg March 2016 used MDMA triggered setback April 2016 Citalopram 10mg October 2016 cut to 5mg, May 2017 cut to 2.5mg May 2018 used MDMA triggered setback June 2018 Citalopram 2.5mg up to 10mg, then back to 5mg July/ August 2018 7.5mg, then 10mg June 2019 updosed to 20mg Citalopram August 2019 cold switch to Venlafaxine 75mg XR Supplements; 1100mg fish oil daily; also 100mg Magnesium Glycinate. Tried Vagifem 10mcg from mid May 2021 to mid June 2021; caused depression, so stopped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnfoldingSky Posted November 8, 2019 Author Share Posted November 8, 2019 Oh dear, I didn't know that about water kefir...so many things to watch out for! I am not a medical professional and nothing I say is a medical opinion or meant to be medical advice, please seek a competent and trusted medical professional to consult for all medical decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysideup69 Posted November 9, 2019 Share Posted November 9, 2019 15 hours ago, UnfoldingSky said: Oh dear, I didn't know that about water kefir...so many things to watch out for! I'm not entirely sure what the alcohol content is, but if you do a double ferment with fruit, it definitely increases the alcohol.Might not be by huge amounts, but I'm erring on the side of caution. January 2008 to April 2015 Citalopram 20mg to 5mg, reducing in 50 per cent leaps. Jumped off at 5mg March 2016 used MDMA triggered setback April 2016 Citalopram 10mg October 2016 cut to 5mg, May 2017 cut to 2.5mg May 2018 used MDMA triggered setback June 2018 Citalopram 2.5mg up to 10mg, then back to 5mg July/ August 2018 7.5mg, then 10mg June 2019 updosed to 20mg Citalopram August 2019 cold switch to Venlafaxine 75mg XR Supplements; 1100mg fish oil daily; also 100mg Magnesium Glycinate. Tried Vagifem 10mcg from mid May 2021 to mid June 2021; caused depression, so stopped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator brassmonkey Posted November 9, 2019 Moderator Share Posted November 9, 2019 It appears that homemade kombucha can easily have an alcohol content of 7%. This is on the high end of commercially made American beer and pretty average for internationally made beers and craft beer. It is enough alcohol to cause problems for a person in ADWD. Using methods similar to the ones described on line I have made country wines with alcohol contents in the 18 to 20 percent range and know it is possible to get even higher. So someone making kombucha at home could possibly end up with a very potent drink with out realizing it. American laws state that a beverage with less than 3.2% alcohol in nonintoxicating, a point I have disproved on many occasions, and there for is not classified as an alcoholic beverage, but still needs to be labeled for their contents. Many common products, mouth wash, toothpaste and the like contain small amounts of alcohol and are considered nonintoxicating and there for do not need to be labeled as such. Some of them contain ingredients that are designed to upset the stomach if swallowed to discourage their use as a recreational drug. 20 years on Paxil starting at 20mg and working up to 40mg. Sept 2011 started 10% every 6 weeks taper (2.5% every week for 4 weeks then hold for 2 additional weeks), currently at 7.9mg. Oct 2011 CTed 15oz vodka a night, to only drinking 2 beers most nights, totally sober Feb 2013. Since I wrote this I have continued to decrease my dose by 10% every 6 weeks (2.5% every week for 4 weeks and then hold for an additional 2 weeks). I added in an extra 6 week hold when I hit 10mg to let things settle out even more. When I hit 3mgpw it became hard to split the drop into 4 parts so I switched to dropping 1mgpw (pill weight) every week for 3 weeks and then holding for another 3 weeks. The 3 + 3 schedule turned out to be too harsh so I cut back to dropping 1mgpw every 4 weeks which is working better. Final Dose 0.016mg. Current dose 0.000mg 04-15-2017 "It's also important not to become angry, no matter how difficult life is, because you can loose all hope if you can't laugh at yourself and at life in general." Stephen Hawking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysideup69 Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 That's it, then....no kombucha for me. Just given away my water kefir grains, too....really don't wanna risk anything right now. January 2008 to April 2015 Citalopram 20mg to 5mg, reducing in 50 per cent leaps. Jumped off at 5mg March 2016 used MDMA triggered setback April 2016 Citalopram 10mg October 2016 cut to 5mg, May 2017 cut to 2.5mg May 2018 used MDMA triggered setback June 2018 Citalopram 2.5mg up to 10mg, then back to 5mg July/ August 2018 7.5mg, then 10mg June 2019 updosed to 20mg Citalopram August 2019 cold switch to Venlafaxine 75mg XR Supplements; 1100mg fish oil daily; also 100mg Magnesium Glycinate. Tried Vagifem 10mcg from mid May 2021 to mid June 2021; caused depression, so stopped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Onmyway Posted November 10, 2019 Moderator Share Posted November 10, 2019 This past summer when I was in more intense WD I started drinking store bought fresh squeezed orange juice (no preservatives) and started getting dizzy and having a drunk feeling. Turned out that I was sensititve to the 0.05% (or more) alcohol. I was drinking a lot of the juice so that was probably one reason but it was both funny and sad. It took me a couple of weeks to figure out. Have been drinking now without much problems. No experience with kombucha but I think it's the same principle of fermentation. "Nothing so small as a moment is insurmountable, and moments are all that we have. You have survived every trial and tribulation that life has thrown at you up until this very instant. When future troubles come—and they will come—a version of you will be born into that moment that can conquer them, too." - Kevin Koenig I am not a doctor and this should not be considered medical advice. You can use the information and recommendations provided in whatever way you want and all decisions on your treatment are yours. In the next few weeks I do not have a lot of capacity to respond to questions. If you need a quick answer pls tag or ask other moderators who may want to be tagged. Aug 2000 - July 2003 (ct, 4-6 wk wd) , citalopram 20 mg, xanax prn, wellbutrin for a few months, trazodone prn Dec 2004 - July 2018 citalopram 20 mg, xanax prn (rarely used) Aug 2018 - citalopram 40 mg (self titrated up) September 2018 - January 2019 tapered citalopram - 40/30/20/10/5 no issues until a week after reaching 0 Feb 2019 0.25 xanax - 0.5/day (3 weeks) over to klonopin 0.25 once a day to manage severe wd March 6, reinstated citalopram 2.5 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 mg for sleep 2-3 times a week Apr 1st citalopram 2.0 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 once a week (off by 4/14/19- no tapering) citalopram (liquid) 4/14/19 -1.8 mg, 5/8/19 - 1.6 mg, 7/27/19 -1.5 mg, 8/15/19 - 1.35, 2/21/21 - 1.1 (smaller drops in between), 6/20/21 - 1.03 mg, 8/7/21- 1.025, 8/11/21 - 1.02, 8/15/21 - 1.015, 9/3/21 - 0.925 (fingers crossed!), 10/8/21 - 0.9, 10/18/21 - 0.875, 12/31/21 - 0.85, 1/7/22 - 0.825, 1/14/22 - 0.8, 1/22/22 - 0.785, 8/18/22 - 0.59, 12/15/2022 - 0.48, 2/15/22 - 0.43, 25/07/23 - 0.25 (mistake), 6/08/23 - 0.33mg Supplements: magnesium citrate and bi-glycinate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnfoldingSky Posted November 11, 2019 Author Share Posted November 11, 2019 Okay so I had some milk kefir lately without even considering alcohol content and nothing drastic happened to me. I'm years past having had akathisia which was my primary concern (didn't want that again). It says online it can have a bit of alcohol too. So people who are in acute withdrawal or have very severe symptoms at present or whom just got a window but aren't far out from having had severe issues, you may wish to avoid milk kefir too. But I'm taking this as a positive sign for people like me for whom the worst is over with that maybe we can tolerate tiny bits of alcohol without the sky falling in on us. This said, I'm not advocating anyone run out and get drunk to celebrate recovery! Nor am I cracking open even one beer. I've had enough of being in an altered state of mind thanks to pills... Also thank you brassmonkey for mentioning some toothpastes contain alcohol. I didn't realize that either. I see in researching this sorbitol is a kind of alcohol...In acute withdrawal I was using baking soda but when recovery became sustained I started using regular toothpastes again. I don't know if I tried sorbitol in doing that as they keep changing up the kinds of available where I am...I never like buying it now either as it always just seems like buying some kind of chemical stew. I am not a medical professional and nothing I say is a medical opinion or meant to be medical advice, please seek a competent and trusted medical professional to consult for all medical decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bottlehalffull Posted December 21, 2019 Share Posted December 21, 2019 Anyone with histamine issues should watch out with kombucha and kefir. Alcohol's not the only potentially triggering yeasty/bacterial byproduct. And histamine reactions can be very activating. 2018/7 Started on lamotrigine (12.5 mg) and escitalopram (2.5 mg). Tapered up over the course of a month to 50 mg LTG, 10 mg escit. Kept tapering LTG up to 75 mg by 2018/10. 2018/11 Crosstapered from escitalopram to sertraline. 2018/12 Was still taking both SSRIs (escit. 5 mg, sert. 25 mg) when sert. was discontinued to trial quetiapine. Quet. tapered up to 25 mg, but tapered back down after 3 days on the full dose because side effects. Total time on quetiapine 10 days. Switched back to cross tapering esit. and sert., started tapering LTG up to 100 mg. 2019/1 Lamotrigine 100 mg, sertraline 12.5 mg, escitalopram 5 mg. Finally discontinued escit. and on full dosage of sertraline (25 mg) 2019/04. 2019/11 About two weeks of sertraline 12.5 mg, but went back up to 25 mg. 2019/12/4 Lamotrigine taper: too fast, down to 25 mg over the course of about 10 days. Also started increase sertraline 37.5 mg during luteal phase of menstrual cycle for PMDD. 2020/(early) on 22 mg lamotrigine for a while, maybe a month and a half, maybe longer, then 2020/03 Institutionalized for self harm. I think I was trying to taper the sertraline at the time, don't remember the details. Doses increased: Sertraline 50 mg/lamotrigine 25 mg (current regimen). Supposed to be taking seroquel and abilify (TWO antipsychotics?!) but didn't take any once I was discharged from the institution. (Was on them a few days.) ________________________________________________________ 2001(?) Citalopram, don't remember dosage, cold turkey after a couple months and had terrible withdrawals, including what in retrospect was probably PAWS for the next five or so years. (agoraphobia, crippling social anxiety, anhedonia, dp/dr). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysideup69 Posted December 27, 2019 Share Posted December 27, 2019 Hi @bottlehalffull, how do you know if you are having a histamine reaction? Also, haven't eaten it in a while, but I was making my own sauerkraut ie fermented cabbage. I'm guessing anything fermented is pretty much off the menu through WD, or at least at first...... Maybe stick to probiotics in pill form, if at all. January 2008 to April 2015 Citalopram 20mg to 5mg, reducing in 50 per cent leaps. Jumped off at 5mg March 2016 used MDMA triggered setback April 2016 Citalopram 10mg October 2016 cut to 5mg, May 2017 cut to 2.5mg May 2018 used MDMA triggered setback June 2018 Citalopram 2.5mg up to 10mg, then back to 5mg July/ August 2018 7.5mg, then 10mg June 2019 updosed to 20mg Citalopram August 2019 cold switch to Venlafaxine 75mg XR Supplements; 1100mg fish oil daily; also 100mg Magnesium Glycinate. Tried Vagifem 10mcg from mid May 2021 to mid June 2021; caused depression, so stopped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bottlehalffull Posted December 27, 2019 Share Posted December 27, 2019 My reaction to kefir (including water kefir) was an energy/anxiety burst, sometimes dysphoria, bloating and gut pain, sometimes headache, hot flush, but people's reactions (to everything.....) can be pretty different. Supposedly with sauerkraut and fermented veggies, once it gets to a certain age the histamine concentration starts going back down again, but I don't know the details. I don't react very much to sauerkraut or kimchi though. Maybe it's a different blend of bacteria/yeast that my body likes better. 2018/7 Started on lamotrigine (12.5 mg) and escitalopram (2.5 mg). Tapered up over the course of a month to 50 mg LTG, 10 mg escit. Kept tapering LTG up to 75 mg by 2018/10. 2018/11 Crosstapered from escitalopram to sertraline. 2018/12 Was still taking both SSRIs (escit. 5 mg, sert. 25 mg) when sert. was discontinued to trial quetiapine. Quet. tapered up to 25 mg, but tapered back down after 3 days on the full dose because side effects. Total time on quetiapine 10 days. Switched back to cross tapering esit. and sert., started tapering LTG up to 100 mg. 2019/1 Lamotrigine 100 mg, sertraline 12.5 mg, escitalopram 5 mg. Finally discontinued escit. and on full dosage of sertraline (25 mg) 2019/04. 2019/11 About two weeks of sertraline 12.5 mg, but went back up to 25 mg. 2019/12/4 Lamotrigine taper: too fast, down to 25 mg over the course of about 10 days. Also started increase sertraline 37.5 mg during luteal phase of menstrual cycle for PMDD. 2020/(early) on 22 mg lamotrigine for a while, maybe a month and a half, maybe longer, then 2020/03 Institutionalized for self harm. I think I was trying to taper the sertraline at the time, don't remember the details. Doses increased: Sertraline 50 mg/lamotrigine 25 mg (current regimen). Supposed to be taking seroquel and abilify (TWO antipsychotics?!) but didn't take any once I was discharged from the institution. (Was on them a few days.) ________________________________________________________ 2001(?) Citalopram, don't remember dosage, cold turkey after a couple months and had terrible withdrawals, including what in retrospect was probably PAWS for the next five or so years. (agoraphobia, crippling social anxiety, anhedonia, dp/dr). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysideup69 Posted December 28, 2019 Share Posted December 28, 2019 7 hours ago, bottlehalffull said: My reaction to kefir (including water kefir) was an energy/anxiety burst, sometimes dysphoria, bloating and gut pain, sometimes headache, hot flush, but people's reactions (to everything.....) can be pretty different. Supposedly with sauerkraut and fermented veggies, once it gets to a certain age the histamine concentration starts going back down again, but I don't know the details. I don't react very much to sauerkraut or kimchi though. Maybe it's a different blend of bacteria/yeast that my body likes better. OK thanks.... and histamine reactions can be activating in WD? Interesting... When I first went into WD, I was having quite a lot of fermented food and beverages, built up over time. Might stick to the prebiotic veggies rather than probiotics. I didn't even hazard Christmas pud owing to alcohol content. I'm sure people think I'm just being fussy, but if they experienced WD reactions, they'd sure get it! January 2008 to April 2015 Citalopram 20mg to 5mg, reducing in 50 per cent leaps. Jumped off at 5mg March 2016 used MDMA triggered setback April 2016 Citalopram 10mg October 2016 cut to 5mg, May 2017 cut to 2.5mg May 2018 used MDMA triggered setback June 2018 Citalopram 2.5mg up to 10mg, then back to 5mg July/ August 2018 7.5mg, then 10mg June 2019 updosed to 20mg Citalopram August 2019 cold switch to Venlafaxine 75mg XR Supplements; 1100mg fish oil daily; also 100mg Magnesium Glycinate. Tried Vagifem 10mcg from mid May 2021 to mid June 2021; caused depression, so stopped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bottlehalffull Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 Well I had histamine reactions like that before this recent round of going on and dropping ADs, but since a lot of psych meds act as mild antihistamines (part of why they're sedating) it's probably worse in WD if you're sensitive to histamine. 2018/7 Started on lamotrigine (12.5 mg) and escitalopram (2.5 mg). Tapered up over the course of a month to 50 mg LTG, 10 mg escit. Kept tapering LTG up to 75 mg by 2018/10. 2018/11 Crosstapered from escitalopram to sertraline. 2018/12 Was still taking both SSRIs (escit. 5 mg, sert. 25 mg) when sert. was discontinued to trial quetiapine. Quet. tapered up to 25 mg, but tapered back down after 3 days on the full dose because side effects. Total time on quetiapine 10 days. Switched back to cross tapering esit. and sert., started tapering LTG up to 100 mg. 2019/1 Lamotrigine 100 mg, sertraline 12.5 mg, escitalopram 5 mg. Finally discontinued escit. and on full dosage of sertraline (25 mg) 2019/04. 2019/11 About two weeks of sertraline 12.5 mg, but went back up to 25 mg. 2019/12/4 Lamotrigine taper: too fast, down to 25 mg over the course of about 10 days. Also started increase sertraline 37.5 mg during luteal phase of menstrual cycle for PMDD. 2020/(early) on 22 mg lamotrigine for a while, maybe a month and a half, maybe longer, then 2020/03 Institutionalized for self harm. I think I was trying to taper the sertraline at the time, don't remember the details. Doses increased: Sertraline 50 mg/lamotrigine 25 mg (current regimen). Supposed to be taking seroquel and abilify (TWO antipsychotics?!) but didn't take any once I was discharged from the institution. (Was on them a few days.) ________________________________________________________ 2001(?) Citalopram, don't remember dosage, cold turkey after a couple months and had terrible withdrawals, including what in retrospect was probably PAWS for the next five or so years. (agoraphobia, crippling social anxiety, anhedonia, dp/dr). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysideup69 Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 4 hours ago, bottlehalffull said: Well I had histamine reactions like that before this recent round of going on and dropping ADs, but since a lot of psych meds act as mild antihistamines (part of why they're sedating) it's probably worse in WD if you're sensitive to histamine. Didn't realise that psych meds act as mild histamines. Fascinating. Citalopram does, am gonna guess, because one of the side effects of start up and dose dropping was uncontrollable yawning, feeling drowsy. I've not had that with Venlafaxine, now I come to think of it..... January 2008 to April 2015 Citalopram 20mg to 5mg, reducing in 50 per cent leaps. Jumped off at 5mg March 2016 used MDMA triggered setback April 2016 Citalopram 10mg October 2016 cut to 5mg, May 2017 cut to 2.5mg May 2018 used MDMA triggered setback June 2018 Citalopram 2.5mg up to 10mg, then back to 5mg July/ August 2018 7.5mg, then 10mg June 2019 updosed to 20mg Citalopram August 2019 cold switch to Venlafaxine 75mg XR Supplements; 1100mg fish oil daily; also 100mg Magnesium Glycinate. Tried Vagifem 10mcg from mid May 2021 to mid June 2021; caused depression, so stopped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bottlehalffull Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 No, they can be mild ANTI histamines. In general, they're supposed to act on a specific receptor (for example SSRI's are *supposed* to be working on serotonin transporters), but they also tend to affect other non-target receptors. It's part of why different SSRI's have different side effects. If you're curious, wikipedia has a nice chart: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serotonin–norepinephrine_reuptake_inhibitors#Activity_profiles but it's kind of overwhelming. (If you look at the H1 receptor chart, you can see that yep, venlafaxine has less affinity to histamine receptor. Low numbers = sticks more tightly to the receptor.) My allergies are actually less bad since I've started SSRI's! And a lot of antihistamines, even the newer ones that aren't supposed to have any brain effects, can have mood side effects (usually bad in my experience). 2018/7 Started on lamotrigine (12.5 mg) and escitalopram (2.5 mg). Tapered up over the course of a month to 50 mg LTG, 10 mg escit. Kept tapering LTG up to 75 mg by 2018/10. 2018/11 Crosstapered from escitalopram to sertraline. 2018/12 Was still taking both SSRIs (escit. 5 mg, sert. 25 mg) when sert. was discontinued to trial quetiapine. Quet. tapered up to 25 mg, but tapered back down after 3 days on the full dose because side effects. Total time on quetiapine 10 days. Switched back to cross tapering esit. and sert., started tapering LTG up to 100 mg. 2019/1 Lamotrigine 100 mg, sertraline 12.5 mg, escitalopram 5 mg. Finally discontinued escit. and on full dosage of sertraline (25 mg) 2019/04. 2019/11 About two weeks of sertraline 12.5 mg, but went back up to 25 mg. 2019/12/4 Lamotrigine taper: too fast, down to 25 mg over the course of about 10 days. Also started increase sertraline 37.5 mg during luteal phase of menstrual cycle for PMDD. 2020/(early) on 22 mg lamotrigine for a while, maybe a month and a half, maybe longer, then 2020/03 Institutionalized for self harm. I think I was trying to taper the sertraline at the time, don't remember the details. Doses increased: Sertraline 50 mg/lamotrigine 25 mg (current regimen). Supposed to be taking seroquel and abilify (TWO antipsychotics?!) but didn't take any once I was discharged from the institution. (Was on them a few days.) ________________________________________________________ 2001(?) Citalopram, don't remember dosage, cold turkey after a couple months and had terrible withdrawals, including what in retrospect was probably PAWS for the next five or so years. (agoraphobia, crippling social anxiety, anhedonia, dp/dr). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Emeritus ChessieCat Posted November 27, 2021 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted November 27, 2021 1 hour ago, Foxclover6 said: I cannot touch kombucha, it's been awful. * NO LONGER ACTIVE on SA * MISSION ACCOMPLISHED: (6 year taper) 0mg Pristiq on 13th November 2021 ADs since ~1992: 25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq: 50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity) Tapering from Oct 2015 - 13 Nov 2021 LAST DOSE 0.0025mg Post 0 updates start here My tapering program My Intro (goes to tapering graph) VIDEO: Antidepressant Withdrawal Syndrome and its Management Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heinz1903 Posted December 9, 2021 Share Posted December 9, 2021 I had the same, i have noticed. i drank it for years since my mom made it. 2014-2020 Haloperidol 2017-2021 Zoloft 2018-2021 Issues zoloft so i decreased on both Haloperidol November 2020 Taper down Haloperidol(barely any issues)March 2021 taper down from zoloft(alot of issues) Zoloft taperdown from march till late june 25mg was my dosage, may 10mg(from 10 too 5 was hard), 5mg in end of june every lowar dosage gave me alot of issues. clean in end of june. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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